Why JOKER Folie A Deux SUCKED

[@heavyspoilers]

Let us know your thoughts or I'll fart myself to death

[@r.e.holding]

That sounds like a whimsical way to die 😂

[@K8theKind]

Ew

[@montyjalloh7882]

Ìt was the worst film I've seen in a long time totally disrespected the first film. Absolute shite

[@davidgeldner2167]

Folie a Deux more like FULLY A DEUCE bc this movie reminds me of a big pile of stinky doodoo. Hey Todd next time you gonna make a movie called Spider-Man about a guy who may or may not have inspired Spider-Man to exist off camera? WTF

[@nancybeingnancy3081]

This was horrible. This version of the Joker is so pathetic and it was a damn musical no

[@MarcusNikolaisen]

I saw it on a bootleg at home and walked out of my own house

[@eprggpepicragegameplays9290]

best comment 😂

[@999Emergency24]

😂❤

[@schoolinJOO]

lol

[@abdellahrami7807]

😂😂😂

[@nordiablack1278]

😂😂😂😂❤❤❤

[@danwoods8195]

100% this is not a Joker story. This is about ARTHUR THE CLOWN and i will call it that from now on.

[@je5406]

Even with that in mind. Its still not a good movie.

[@danwoods8195]

@@je5406 never said it was you right about that.

[@Fernando_616]

That's what it always was 😂 I guess most of you don't read interviews

[@johngallagher72]

Yet the psychotic inmate at the end who takes over as the Joker and assumes his identity and becomes the Joker is not involved in Arthur's story anyway ...not a Joker story you say ? ...smh.

[@Fernando_616]

@@johngallagher72 takes over? He just mutilated himself, that hardly qualifies as taking over lol

[@paulc1553]

Joker should have stayed a one and done.

[@Aaron9386]

The first one shouldn't even have been made, it's a poor representation of who the Joker is n makes a mockery of everything the Joker is.

[@Micosanmiguel]

Yeah it the first movie failed as a joker movie but it worked as a pyschological film about someone going mad aganist society

[@Vidinquiries]

They need to make another one like this one never happened so Jacquan Phoenix can reclaim his rightful character.

[@edkwon]

That's what Todd Philips wanted, he didn't want a sequel but it was pushed really aggressively by a greedy studio

[@HorseJoint]

Agreed

[@user7-o9w]

Joker 2 should just be renamed “Joke”

[@michaellawrence7570]

Excellent comment

[@nullakjg767]

both movies should be called "arthur fleck" not "the joekr"

[@je5406]

They should reedit it. Just put up a still image of a middle finger for two hours while the audience sits in silence.

[@Jayalen]

Joker: Fool Da Douche

​@je5406 also with a message "thanks for your money bitcheeeees"

[@FucTrump]

Todd Philips needs to be banned from directing sequels.

[@Paul-tl1db]

Hangover 2 was pretty good 😂

[@jasonweigand]

As a lawyer, the courtroom scenes were the worst part. They don’t even try to follow the rules. Just embarrassing

[@johngallagher72]

The prison scenes were equally terrible and this coming from someone who liked the movie and liked the idea that we can link Arthur to Heath Ledger Joker. But you're right there is no way a judge would let him wear makeup and absolutely no chance that the jail / mental facility would let him mingle with the singing group, no way that a guard would let and watch Harley and Arthur flirt with each other and absolutely no chance she would be able to visit him in solitary where they could pardon the pun scrog like mad.

[@psychoapplesauceeater8562]

Lawyer? You’re just as bad as the wealthy and the wealth guys in the train from the first. Walking all over the people lying, dying in the street.

[@CurtisJeffries-cd5vu]

now u jus need to sue

[@thespeculativemusician]

@@johngallagher72it seems that Lee had a dad with tons of money and contacts related to the asylum

[@Anonymous-jv5hq]

I was thinking the same! Once he fired his lawyer Arthur was very clearly not competent for court in that moment. Yet they somehow let him be his own lawyer? And then proceeded to allow him to wear his joker makeup? Like come on. At least try a little.

[@jeffhidalgo6037]

This is going to be a long list but playing the same songs 5 times is probably at the top for me & they didn't even warn a brother!

[@lexplays5]

It was the same song ?? Lmao. I didn't even notice.

[@miloa.2684]

they did?

[@lowlowseesee]

hahahhahaah "them co chillin' motha fuckas are still warner brother."

[@Bee-ol1xr]

I couldn't stand listening about that fking hill or mountain or whatever

[@RotemWasBored]

You could say, they didn’t, warner brothers 🤣🤣🤣

[@jenisia3600]

Joker 1: mentally ill man descends into Madness and becomes the Joker, an agent of chaos. There's no coming back from that. Joker 2: let's undo all that and make it a courtroom musical sequel that no one asked for and continue abusing the mentally ill man

[@Joker_JAK]

"ThAt No OnE aSkEd FoR" No one asked for the version of Joker we got in the first film, but it was still amazing. There are a TON of films that no one asked for but are still great. People need to stop saying that as an argument. It's not even valid.

[@whateverman23]

@@Joker_JAKIt is a valid argument when we’re talking about adaptations.

[@gttc321]

Speak for yourself. There are plenty of us that loved this movie and the focus on Arthur

[@whateverman23]

@@gttc321 Yes plenty of you enjoyed it. You’re still the minority by a huge margin. But everyone has there own taste.

[@gttc321]

@@whateverman23 I wouldn't say 'huge' minority seeing the amount of high imdb ratings. But a minority nonetheless. So it's not true that no one asked for this movie.

[@redfordmusicofficial]

"It doesn't work as a Batman movie, it doesn't work as a Joker movie, it doesn't work as a Drama and it doesn't work as a musical" This movie is a JOKE

[@MusicLover-my6fo]

Arhtur Fleck in Joker - Can you introduce me as Joker? Arthur Fleck in Joker: Folie a Deux - I'm not the Joker, I'm just Arthur Fleck. You had one job, Todd Phillips. Just one.

[@strutit]

I interpreted him saying "joker didn't do it, it was me" as him saying he is the joker. like it's not a split personality. I loved that he owned it. Im an evil sick f-er....

[@michaelmiller7909]

Turd Phillips literally admitted, out loud, to an interviewer.. IT IS "joker" IN NAME ONLY to secure extra funds from the studio... Then he made this pathetic, mentally deficient, soyboy incel rallying cry of a shit movie and everyone except real comic fans simped over it harder than ever. And now you have the 2nd heap of shit in your face and you're wondering what happened?!?! Is it burdensome to be that stupid? The pos failed comedy director said it had nothing to do with the actual character except the name for money and marketing hype... He pulled a bait and switch and all the fucking sheep ate it up and paid for a shit sequel to a shit movie that without being called "joker", would have flopped so hard, turd Phillips' career would have tanked and we would be spared, at the least, less than mediocre crap from one studio... But nope.. the idiot masses do what idiots do and the useless crap the pulled it on you gets to do it again... Fucking laughable at how many worthless, incel, wannabe edge lord, Arthur cucks are out there that are long overdue for the Kurt Cobain challenge.. please..do society a favor.

[@strider117aldo9]

Deliberately wanted to erase hope for continuations, Daddy Todd did

[@pikeflowed]

Totally agree : a job who he screwed the pooch with on a Grand scale, lol, oh and lost 150 million dollars into the bargain , lol

[@severussnape2873]

If you are true joker fan who read comics and stuffs.. You should know by now that arthur isn't "the joker". Joker 1 shows, Batman as a small child while arthur was a fully grown up man. If you watched the film carefully, the last scene tells all. So sick and tired of these wanna be critics who simply loves action and violence when they hear the word "Joker". Both the actors are oscar winning extremely successful people, they know their shit. SMH

[@KINGBOSS08-mmk]

Lady Gaga was 100% Lady Gaga. Where tf was Harley Quinn? This movie sucked.

[@ZionOmar]

Tell me about it

[@messedupguy9648]

Gaga did a great job. You disappointed yourself thinking it will be the comic book Harley when it was said earlier she won't be.

[@mashan1978]

I agree. Harley Quinn is a mixture of funny, sexy, psycho, intelligent, and kinda scary. She just seemed dry and was definitely just used to sing.

[@Father_Daniel]

I hate that they think because you enjoyed the Joker you condone the type of violence in the movie. It's a fictional character!! I love Freddy Krueger doesn't mean I agree with haunting people in their dreams and killing teenagers LOL

[@strutit]

this was hilarious

[@bensenzo]

That's literally what it means. Why else do you love him then?

[@Father_Daniel]

@@bensenzo are you being sarcastic or are you just some weird troll?

[@bensenzo]

@@Father_Daniel why would you think I'm being sarcastic or a troll? It's a simple question

[@Father_Daniel]

@bensenzo ok then..so to be clear If i enjoy Jason and Freddy movies then I condone the killing of teens?

[@stonytrees8573]

Don’t watch the joker 2 just watch joker twice

[@penpointred]

I thought Joker hella sucked

[@DJJunkfoodJay]

Don't even do that.

[@stonytrees8573]

@@penpointred I would expect that from someone who uses the word “hella”

[@mingywantwingy1379]

​@@stonytrees8573what's wrong with Hella pal? You got a problem with us 90/00s kids buddy? We're not so bad friend, not so bad at all guy.

[@thescarecrow897]

​@@jeydaness no, joker is better than that old boring movie

[@zom8680]

Shouldve named this film "Arthur"

[@waynecanning4122]

And they should have asked Dudley Moore to play the lead

[@michaelmiller7909]

Or could've made proper joker movie instead of a bait And switch once he got the comic book movie budget and put out this absolute piece of trash love letter for mentally deficient incels with a perpetual victim mentality.. to all rally around and because he's one too.

[@zombie4skin28]

Don’t know why they named it something related to Harley when she literally does nothing for the plot

[@nickrandles1102]

I'm just going to play Arthur's Song for the exact length of time Joker 2 is. That song is fire. ​@@waynecanning4122

[@Kanoog]

Joker 2 failed so bad it made the 1st one worse....

[@DeepInsideZettaiRyouiki]

EPIC.

[@Nuggett1337]

It sucked because it wasn't a joker film

[@lightdarksoul2097]

Just like the first

[@garyangel3885]

It sucked because its trash. The first was trash and this one is just worse than that.

[@Nuggett1337]

Who really wanted a musical? I know it's supposed to be "The Joker" and not 'La La Land'

[@SchindlersFiist]

​@@Nuggett1337blah blah land

[@Klarence75]

french is one cause of it...

[@jimsto7453]

Also, this review is why I appreciate your channel. Whatever your take is, whether I agree or disagree, it’s always genuine and your breakdowns are thought out. I appreciate your thoughts and it separates your channel in a lot of ways.

[@MrDeeds_117]

👏🏻👏🏻

[@NeilCairns-i8c]

Yes unlike the new rockstar

[@cl6083]

It's refreshing when someone isn't always trying to jam the positives down our throats 😂

[@jimsto7453]

@@cl6083 like a marvel channel telling me about the cinematography of a movie instead of just saying it’s trash

[@emcasado]

Get ready for Gladiator II, guys. We will be in for a treat...

[@WaaaltyItaaachi2626]

😂😂

[@herohour6496]

I loved Moulin Rouge. Why people hating on musicals and dance movies? It's great!

[@SMX815]

It be will jejune when compared to the original film

[@thephilosopher7173]

@@herohour6496 Musicals are for stage theatre fans. Nothing wrong with stage theatre, but I wanna be taken to a new world when watching a movie and as soon as I see Maximus bust out the high notes, and singing about his victory, I'm not in Rome anymore, I'm in a musical....

[@HypocritesExposd]

Wait Gladiator 2 is a musical?

[@Bilbo_191]

Calling it worse than Madame Web is a huge call. This film showcases the downfall of a man beaten down by society and when he thinks people love him it’s actually not the person they love it’s someone else.

[@walterrussell7584]

It must’ve spent $100,000 in cigarettes that’s all they did was smoke

[@annabellee8459]

For real. The movie made me want a cigarette. 🚬

[@kxkxkxkx]

So this movie is insulting the viewers and encouraging them to smoke cigarettes? Todd is indeed the real Joker here...

[@TheLotan]

I want my $33.65 back

[@DHGxMcFlurry]

If Todd wanted to make fun of Warner Bros for forcing a sequel, why not create a message about using someone's mental health for one's own benefit? The first Joker movie made it clear that Nobody gives af about mental health, so maybe have this one be about people/companies using Arthur's newfound fame to make themselves look better. Imagine if a corrupt mayor used Arthur's story to "advocate" for mental health services for his own gain, only to have Arthur meet him and punish him for it. You caused his pain, now you think you can control him? You cannot control chaos, and now Gotham will fall because of it.

[@Mergerie_Smithaton]

I like that idea.

[@DHGxMcFlurry]

@@Mergerie_Smithaton mhm, thanks

[@Kelticfury]

What a damn shame. I feel like the writers have never read anything about the Joker.

[@KenDavis-uo8kq]

It’s really not a comic book movie. The first one isn’t either.

[@oolong2]

"Let's create a movie that shows how Joker became the Joker, really spend time with him and dive into his character and psyche... Just kidding! That wasn't the Joker! He's really just a nameless 1 dimensional character!"

[@jayc6252]

Not one dimensional. The whole point is that no one nows who the Joker is.

[@oolong2]

@@jayc6252 Which adds absolutely nothing to the character or story. Thanks for creating two movies to tell us what we already knew. A crazy guy bumbling around, is not the Joker. I'm glad I had to sit through a musical for over 2 hours to learn that.

[@ccam7802]

of course he wasnt the Joker, you should've known that after a few minutes into the first film

[@How_Many_Monkeys]

Bro’s gonna be making that “warn a brother” joke until the day he dies lmao

[@CoopaCoop]

What a shame. Really wanted this movie to be a banger

[@tommyboyindy1157]

The first movie was how a troubled man named Arthur Fleck became a psycho named the Joker. The second could have continued on how the psycho known as Joker became the arch villain known as Joker. Instead it regressed and became another Arthur Fleck movie.

[@Fernando_616]

These movies weren't intended to be about "The Joker." Arthur was shown to be forgotten about by the system and the second movie pushes it further by showing how society forgot about Arthur as well, they only cared about "Joker." The movie was a slog, but if you cut out the musical parts it's just an ok movie still, nothing great

[@tommyboyindy1157]

@@Fernando_616 : And that’s why the second movie will bomb. People were interested in how the Joker became Joker. Arthur Fleck was a great vehicle for that. But people don’t about Arthur for Arthur’s sake.

[@Fernando_616]

@@tommyboyindy1157 lol... Don't you see how the movie going audience became no better than the masses in the film? Nobody went to the theater for Arthur, they wanted Joker. It actually makes the subtitle of folie a duex genius now that I'm thinking about it

[@tommyboyindy1157]

@@Fernando_616 : A genius of social commentary that nobody will go see because they don’t care. They want a comic book villain not Madame Bovary. Gotta know the crowd.

[@Fernando_616]

@@tommyboyindy1157 if people wanted something they were never going to get, and were told as such, then that's their problem. Everyone is smart enough to make inferences but nobody is intelligent enough to hear a truth and accept it. We were told this wasn't The Joker. But a lot of people really enjoyed the first movie and basically forgot about that extremely important point. And my genius comment only applies to the subtitle and it's multiple applications. The movie itself, even without the music, was underwhelming. Just waiting for trial and then a big ending. I would have been less than thrilled if I paid to see it

[@jaredchenklov1532]

My only major issue with this movie was the lack of build up to anything. The first movie built up Joker going on the Murray show as the final act since the beginning of the movie. This movie didn’t even remotely set up the idea that the movie was gonna end with Joker escaping and getting heart broken. I feel this is why the movie is so boring

[@Fernando_616]

This movie has a build up too, but it was shrouded in the musical scenes. Arthur didn't escape either, not really. He walked around for a few hours lol

[@radrobd123]

well it kind did. They had the cartoon at the movie that foreshadowed the events of the movie

[@daquandavis5498]

My favorite part of this is all the ppl saying “you shouldn’t have rooted for him in the first one” n telling me how I should feel watching a movie n what I should take away from it… like no that’s not how this works 😂

[@October_Numbers]

Folie à deux is in French because the psychological disorder it's named after is also in French. In English it's called Shared Delusional Disorder, but the French naming of it came first. I'm not going to argue with you over whether or not the film sucks (it does), but the title actually somewhat makes sense- it translates to "a madness for two." Edit: Just want to add, I know I post critical comments sometimes, but I really do love your channel and the hard work you do. Keep up the good work, Paul!

[@opetmalugaming]

Up

[@Twistedwolf-ru2qk]

I think allot of people also assume wrongly it means shared madness between joker and Harley. It's about the shared madness between Joker and his successor

[@LowTide941]

My man your acting like people care about your comments. Nobody knows you bruh

[@October_Numbers]

@@LowTide941 the irony in your comment is delectable, "bruh."

[@theboy1625]

A good name for a trash movie. If this movie showed the beginnings of joker and Harley Quinn duo than it would of made billions again. I was expecting the Harley character to get turned crazy by Arthur but guess not

[@darthmeatloaf8227]

i think people tend to forget that todd phillips himself said way before the first joker came out that arthur fleck was never gonna be THE joker he was just suppose to be the “inspiration” for the actual joker but i do understand why people thought this movie felt like a waste for an interesting character like arthur yea idk i liked the movie but it def wasn’t better than the first

[@Bman32x]

2:16 making a sequel they didn’t want to and telling the studio to F off while taking their money… while that studio just happens to be the same studio WB pictures… can’t be a coincidence nooooo…

[@thezplayer3002]

The Matrix 4

[@Quick-Silver206]

They made it a fucking musical?

[@bmhlogan]

Todd Phillips casually dropped one of the great masterpieces of cinema history then utterly ruined it with the sequel and he didn't even warn a brotha.

[@Domzdream]

They should have cast Willem Defoe as The Joker. He's a brilliant actor, plus, he's already got that face.

[@WhiskeyNchill]

It wouldn’t matter who they casted as the Joker. The movie would still suck, because it’s a musical and Lady Gaggag is in it.

[@Aaron.Cormano]

He is 70 years old...

[@zom8680]

Joker : gets assaulted by some punks on street, fat guy gives Arthur a gun for safety, gun falls out of pants, gets fired after fat guy lies to their boss. Subway punks assault Arthur, Arthur kills them. Mother has been lying to him his entire life, her lies exposed and the abuse she too inflicted on him, he kills her too Fat guy comes over for a false apology, Arthur kills him He literally plans to kill himself on the Murray show but during the interview changes his plans and kills Murray instead Arthur is now a messiah for all those suffering people and ends the film being arrested, freed, and somehow imprisoned again Did it need a sequel, nope. But since they announced it, what did I want ? More of the city in chaos, more of Arthur embracing the crazy, eventually ending with some crazy catalyst that brings him back to reality that hes not comic book Joker at all. What did we get ? Prison guards graping the Joker out of him and a bit of guilt after Puddles testifies. Ending with his death by an unknown inmate

[@radrobd123]

You forgot about Harley/Lee using him for her own fame and delusions. She lied about her past, most likely lied about being pregnant and dumped him in the end saying they were never going to run away together, it was just a fantasy

[@TheRepa1ner]

Genuine thank you for this comment. You saved me what would be a good deal of cash to me these days. More importantly, you saved me 3 hours of my life traveling to, seeing, and traveling home from this disappointing film. You're amazing.

[@AoAD]

I understand the themes this movie is trying to convey. It's just a joyless slog to get through. Any time I feel like something is working for me, the musical numbers intrusively decides to butt in. What was the point of this movie?

[@TommyBo42]

Went to see it on opening night. First time I have ever been to a big release on opening night and when the movie ended.... crickets. Everyone in the theater sat in stunned silence. I looked at my girlfriend and asked "WTF did we just watch? I don't get it." Went to take that after-a-movie pee, and there were people in the bathroom talking, all saying the same thing "It made no sense." And yes, the more I think about it, the angrier that movie makes me. It was 2 hours wasted of my life, and now it also soils the original Joker movie as well. I can never again watch the first Joker and enjoy it, cause I am now aware - it's all pointless. My alternate ending (which I think could have gone a long way to MAYBE saving this thing) - Arthur never denies he is Joker. He goes full rager in the courtroom. Him and Harley give that "knowing look" to each other before Harley leaves the courtroom and Joker continues to be the Joker. Then BOOM the explosion! As the dust clears, you see Harley there in FULL Harley costuming. Joker and Harley embrace and run out of the smoldering wreckage, laughing maniacally. Fade to black. FIN.

[@darlalathan6143]

Now, that's a good Joker movie! 😃🤓

[@SamWilson801]

Omg so edgy and counterculture LOL

[@TommyBo42]

@@SamWilson801 I never claimed to be a writer, just someone who thinks there could have been a better ending.

[@Nyvz-ni5fd]

Honestly, you made this movie even worse with that alternative ending theory. You wanted a happy ending for a murderous mentally ill clown. This movie just averted everyone‘s expectations of the joker was gonna keep on going and then eventually fight Batman and blah blah

[@TommyBo42]

@@Nyvz-ni5fd yes, I wanted a happy ending for the psychopath who becomes one of the most iconic villains in history. Call me crazy.

[@nicolecepero-rai5903]

I really appreciate your reviews, BUT I also appreciate how you always dress and do your makeup to theme. I look forward to it every video, thanks for all you do!

[@genefernandofaelnar8300]

I watched this yesterday, I really enjoyed it although some musical pieces misfired. Sadly though, most critics hated it, I think the main reason is they were expecting a Joker movie but saw an Arthur Fleck movie instead. Arthur Fleck due to loneliness and dire situation created an alter ego The Joker, the alter ego started dominating him and ended up on a murderous spree, but because of this notoriety it resonated with the masses and made him a cult figure. In comes Lee Quinzel an obsessed fan who commited a crime just to meet The Joker, because of this Arthur felt the love for the first time and gave up his alter ego only to realize that no one loves Arthur and everyone loved The Joker including Lee Quinzel who at this point created her own persona. Heartbreaking for Arthur who is back where he started, lonely and despaired. My favorite scene of the movie is when Arthur sang "If You Go Away", it truly encapsules the movie

[@8ypicals726]

exactly

[@TheGauremdee]

The movie was so disappointing... Part 1 was genius part 2 was not great, why a musical? Why the last joke before he was stabbed was also so dreadful. The highlight was a joke Fleck made about domestic abuse. And why did Fleck decline being Joker?

[@BigPhil2024]

Musical - Arthur’s way of communicating in a way that wasn’t a joker delusion. The last joke…wasn’t meant to be a joke bubs. Why did Arthur decline? Because there was no joker. Just Arthur.

[@TheGauremdee]

@@BigPhil2024 I like that you see the side where joker was the actual reason people came out to watch the movie. At least from where I stand.

[@geomand1]

Thank God I didn't waste my time.

[@carrastealth]

They could have really made this a commentary on how people exploit the mentally ill for their own entertainment. Or how characters who are mentally ill are turned into 'quirky characters' and their mental illness is no longer portrayed as a struggle but a 'quirk' like what's happened with Harley Quinn(in the Harley Quinn TV series) and how more or less the mental health is turned into a joke that is exploited as nothing more than a 'song and dance' from the people that claim to care about said character. Gaga's character pretty much exploiting Arthur throughout the entire movie wanting him to delve into the Joker for her own personal fantasy and entertainment when it was something HE was struggling with due to his own mental health issues and was created from his pain, was something she wished to turn into her entertainment and fantasy. There is a huge commentary lesson there about how mentally ill people are treated and how mentally ill characters have their illnesses turned into 'entertainment' and 'quirks' instead of the struggles they actually are. Think Arcane Season 1, how Jinx struggled with her mental illness, how she was exploited, and how much of a toll it took on her. Then look at the Harley Quinn show and how that's treated or how Harley as a character is treated these days in the comics where her mental illnesses is turned into a "hey look how quirky she is! She talks to a beaver she hears voices from and is super sexy!" or even look at how a character like Deadpool and all he goes through basically has become this idealized money maker for essentially turning his pain and mental illnesses he deals with into a joke, not just a joke but THE joke from which he is sold upon. The 'mental illness isn't a struggle... it's marketable!' mentality and commentary around that would have been PERFECT for this film, especially considering the role Harley played in exploiting Arthur for his... she could have represented all those people that do that. That way you can tear down these things in a different way, you still make a commentary on the people that glorify the Joker or any other mentally ill character and playing their struggles for laughs and marketability and seeking to humanize them just like the first film did but coming at it from a different angle. The first movie dealt with the people that would walk over you and not care if you were living... the second movie could have dealt with NOW those people 'care' but it doesn't mean they exploit you any less as their 'love' is tied to how long your mental illness can entertain them or fulfill them OR how marketable they can make it or make it represent their own causes, all under the guise of 'caring' about you suddenly. Arthur was never 'a man with a plan', it was never his goal to cause all these things to happen or get all this... but him being the victim of both apathy, and then attention all because it goes from people not caring enough about him being mentally ill, to only caring about how to exploit/profit from it. There's SO MUCH that could have been done to destigmatize and stop making mental illness "the new comedy/quirky/sexy", which media and the people that follow it have been doing for years. The movie has a perfect setup for this.. but doesn't take it. Rather than continuing to touch on this subject, instead Todd decided to go "Nope let's just tear him down and make anyone that felt genuine sympathy feel like it was undeserved." which sadly... is the exact thing the first movie was speaking out against... Oh well.

[@channelsofash]

Since the movies the first movie "borrowed" from didn't have sequels it's not shocking they didn't have a clear way to go with a Joker sequel.

[@Scrambles_Deathdealer]

Nando V Movies put it best when he said that Joker 2 is not a sequel to Joker. It's a movie about the movie Joker. Arthur doesn't do anything in this movie. They just talked about all the bad stuff that he did in the first one! " Hey, Arthur, remember all that bad stuff you did before? We sure do! And we sure hope you don't do it again!" And then he doesn't do it again and the whole thing is pointless.

[@Scrambles_Deathdealer]

Though I will say that I laughed out loud when the judge invoked the Air Bud precedent of "there's no rule against dressing yourself as a clown in the courtroom."

[@playpal9950]

I still can’t get over how it’s a Joker movie without “THE Joker” and without Batman to contend with. It’s the most basic issue I have with it, but it just shows how far removed the movie is from what fans expect. It’s actually a movie about a random guy named Arthur who dies by the end of it.

[@Fernando_616]

This is what it was from day one though lol People's expectations were blown away and they completely forgot the film centered around a random guy who referred to himself as "Joker" and not "The Joker"

[@damiencross7334]

​@@Fernando_616its weird. People hate this one for the same reason they liked the first one. This was never a batman and joker movie. You liked him dancing well thats all he does it this one. Honestly its a boring bad musical. Just to shoehorn goo goo into the movie.

[@Fernando_616]

@@damiencross7334 it’s all in the subtitle. “Folie a deux” means “shared madness” and alludes to a diagnosis that once existed concerning the transmission and sharing of a delusion. The obvious reason for that name would be to imply something about the relationship between Harley and Arthur, and their shared delusion. But it seemly also doubles for the audience thus far after the first film’s success; everyone treated this man simply as the shadow “Joker” and forgot about Arthur entirely. The audience shared in the delusion of the existence of Joker, when that’s never who he really was

[@damiencross7334]

@Fernando_616 i know what it means. Having what you think is a clever title in a foreign language doesn't make the movie good. The arkham shit is boring. The music numbers were uneeded and put in just for goo goo to be in the movie. The trial part was good but its 20 minutes of a too long boring movie. No title in the world is gonna make it entertaining. A billion chinese people can't be wrong. Know what i mean?

[@Fernando_616]

@@damiencross7334 lol I wasn't suggesting the film is better for the title, believe me. Even without the musical numbers the movie was still a drag to me. But as an inside joke, if it is one, that subtitle is an all timer lol I feel compelled to say "Maggots Michael, you're eating maggots" anytime I hear someone say anything about a billion Chinese lol

[@alasdairboswell4654]

Why are y’all so pressed over this “Joker” not fighting Batman. Like for fucks sake, we knew this version of the character wouldn’t fight him. Bruce was young as hell in the first film. Arthur is already like 40 years old or something. It’s an else worlds story it’s not gonna connect with your comic books. Christ how many times have we seen Batman and Joker fight? Why can’t we have a story that’s inspired by the comics with its own spin on it?

[@casuallycruelx]

i've been waiting to hear this since forever

[@damiencross7334]

That's not the issue. The issue is this movie is boring as hell. It surely didn't need to be a bad musical. He fucking dances more than anything.

[@Nyvz-ni5fd]

@@damiencross7334 maybe that’s the masses problem for being so overstimulated and having such short attention spans they need boom and action all the time.

[@damiencross7334]

@@Nyvz-ni5fd so we should all love shitty movies because there are too many good movies? Are you autistic?

[@BlueLionsTVNiiNiiFC]

Thank you, you realise too many aren’t very sophisticated thinkers

[@quintessences]

8:08 you have to remember they throughout all the press for the film said “this isn’t a musical” before describing exactly a musical. So it doesn’t surprise me that TP made a bad musical.

[@alisterfolson]

He got shivved like he did that one guy in the movie The Village

[@Tagperson]

Joker is getting the Joel effect. People got attached to a fictional character only to see their fav character killed off

[@lightdarksoul2097]

Eh it could only ever end like that their actions were always gonna get them killed for it

[@SonOfPsalms23]

Thanks for the warning and Breakdown 💯 You're the only one I trust for movie reviews

[@astropunch101]

It’s like making a Red Skull movie and not having him fight Captain America

[@RabbiSteve1]

A great video essay, about a movie I had no intention of seeing in the first place and even less now. You pretty much summarized everything I thought about both movies. I enjoy your videos and viewpoints.

[@bindzfandango]

Not watched this movie ,but the first movie was never about joker (that's a fantasy)it was about a arther fleck a nobody a mental patient ,without medication who imagined himself a hero of the people, how many time have we heard mental patients released that go on a killing spree ,I personally thought it was crystal clear I think TP is so pissed he's had to literally show the audience this is not a JOKER ,that's the joke .

[@BladeValant546]

And we were robbed of a not heath ledger joker. We could have a cult leader/crime lord here

[@thecaptaindeadpool5098]

@@BladeValant546that joker you want shows up at the end of joker folie a Deux. Killing the Arthur Fleck Joker

[@Xavier.living.life.]

He at no point thinks himself a hero to anyone, he's just a guy responding to how fucked up the world and the people in it are, which if you ask me is essentially what the character from the comics is all about.

[@Fernando_616]

Wow... You haven't even seen the movie and already have more insight than the majority that have 😂 You seem to have actually understood the point of the first movie, not the underlying social commentary, but the character of Arthur

[@GeneratorOperatorDestroyer]

Sir it’s a regression of the character (not even a good regression)… The point of him coming into Joker in the first was more of an acceptance that he’s a nobody in the messed up world he was already born in and raised in. It shouldn’t been a 2nd movie because it was more of an else world movie. Nothing wrong with that but, if that’s how they’re going to continue the story then there shouldn’t be any regression.

[@victorapolinario2766]

I watched the movie yesterday when it came out on digital because people were talking so badly about it that I wanted to save the money on going to the theater. I don't know if I went with my expectations so low or what, but I swear I can't see the bad in this movie. I thought it was GENIUS. I don't want to be overbearing and say “oh, but you didn't understand” because I can perfectly understand those who didn't like the movie, but I understood the meaning and the layers throughout. Maybe it's me philosophizing beyond the film itself, trying to justify the scenes, but idk, I thought it was great. Almost all the songs had a reason and few sounded out of tune. Okay, sometimes they went on too long, but most of them made sense with the story they wanted to tell. And the movie takes a heavy turn after the scene with the guards when they rap... Arthur. It seems that the film breaks Arthur and shows everyone who projected themselves onto the Joker in the first film that he's just some guy projecting himself above what he was and in reality he's an extremely broken and traumatized guy. I thought the ending was valid, after all, if he didn't die, what would he be? He'd go to jail?! But I thought it was a bit random that the guy killed him. But I think it must be some kind of metaphor that I didn't catch. Edit: I saw some people saying that it could be heath's joker who killed Arthur and I went back to review the scene and I think it's a valid interpretation. I thought the ending was better now but I personally would make Arthur stay stuck in the miserable arkham like he was, that way we would see Arthur at the beginning of the movie stuck in a miserable state, being manipulated to rise as something he is not (joker) so that in the end he only ends up in the same state he started, stuck in a miserable state. Again, I don't want to be overbearing because I understand those who didn't like the movie, but I personally thought the criticism was so explicit that everyone would pick it up And just to conclude: that part of the trial where they say “you spent less than 2 hours with Arthur and you think you know him” he is an TERRIFIC meta commentary

[@Bigjron]

When they first said it was going to be a musical I already knew that was going to be bad, I don’t want my alleged joker singing and dancing with harlequin around Gotham

[@True-Believer616]

It's kinda funny how the sequel has proven that, that overrated first film was not really a Joker movie at all.

[@tone3400]

Bro I was goin to say it but didn’t want to argue all day the first was ok but it wasn’t what ppl make it out too be

[@timmoore8623]

Missing the weekly chat with you and “guests”. When you and Gregg were on each week it gave me a reason to tune in. Now the algo doesn’t push me in the channels direction. A weekly chat about all things nerd would help all channels involved 🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤

[@LaughDragon]

It's obvious that the first movie was too real in pointing out the crisis of mental illness mixed with an environment of extreme inequality. The psychology of the Joker is very anti 1%, so they hire one of the richest, most famous celebrities they can in order to divert/destroy everything about The Joker.

[@kingofallplants3775]

That's exactly what I had in mind

[@AntiWhiteOut]

I think he's anti system in general. I imagine the real joker would just target different tropes at random. If you suffered inequality and abuse, then the joker is a somewhat anti hero, because in the randomness he terrorizes groups that are normally untouched or left a lone in society. We're talking about a man who would pretend to feed the homeless to give them smile x and torture a high standing community individual to shock and mentally torture the public. If someone was fighting the 1 percent and they were popular and inspired people to do acts of kindness, the joker would torture that person for being that person. The systems order of things is what he feels brought him his suffering in life, which is why he likes chaos, because regardless of the suffering it can bring, at least it's fair.

[@taimalik1110]

Lady Gaga had the potential as Harley Quinn to make Joker 2 a terrific sequel but alas, this was such a confusing movie that it breaks my heart to imagine the possibilities of what could have been...perhaps even Joker 3...but since they killed off the Joker's character, I feel like only the original 2019 Joker really exists, and this courtroom musical was simply our collective delusion!

[@spacewinter]

I understand the themes and sentiments this movie was trying to convey. But it was executed poorly and without a plot to make it impactful. Joaquin and Gaga performances were good, but their relationship was extremely underdeveloped.

[@RobbieManic]

Everyone upheld the belief that the inconsistencies in the first film were down to Arthur's mind being "unstable" therefore "unreliable". But the two films maintain that all actions he commits were real and carried consequence. How then did moments like firing 8 shots in a 6 chamber revolver happen? Maybe all the "in his head" moments were actual errors you all excused.

[@GymAndSun]

Shit. I bigly loved the first, was always skeptical of a sequel. Your breakdown made it even more clear, the brilliance. Held off so far from seeing 2. Should I skip it altogether? 😅

[@immicimaus1]

I guessed a lot of this from the trailers. Thank you for confirming it and saving me the price of a ticket!

[@rudyrobles8294]

I watched the movie in the theatre and asked for my money back after leaving half an hour in. Got a full refund!

[@RichardGutierrezRG]

Joker was a nod to the work of Scorsese. Joker 2 tried for La La Land, and instead Todd remade Mel Brook's The Producers! Made the flop and embezzled the money💰!

[@marvellamoos1327]

Never been this early! Hopefully you get to read this comment! Thank you for creating this super and extremely underrated channel. You're one of the few with an insightful vision on today's entertainment. Your analysis and video essays are not only relevant but super interesting. Keep up the good work buddy! Greetings from Ecuador 🇪🇨!! Y gracias por tus súper videos de las películas y series que todos amamos 😊

[@ihydame]

I personally liked the movie as a psychology student and someone fascinated with true crime. I understand why many weren’t pleased with the movie but I think a lot of people missed the satire of fetishizing violent criminals. Yes, its the Joker and everyone loves the Joker, but the Joker should never be in a way sympathized to the fullest extent due to what we know he is supposed to be capable of. The film makes many references to real life serial killers; John Wayne Gacy with Arthur’s makeup, Richard Ramirez and other serial killers who were often romanticized by women during his trial, and the Ted Bundy trial. This movie isn’t for everyone, but for a sequel that the director didn’t initially have in mind, I think Phillips did a great job.

[@Xavier.living.life.]

Genuinely feel like one of the only people who loves both this and the first film and not only that but loved this one more than the first. I really enjoyed the musical numbers a lot, I think Arthur's story is utterly tragic, and I think both films look and sound beautiful, cinematography, score, and overall sound design wise. I dunno something about these movies just clicks with me and it's kinda sad to see that almost no one else seems to feel that way, but at the end of the day it's really no big deal these are just movies after all and people are allowed to feel however they want to about them. People can dislike them without needing pretentious people telling them they're stupid and didn't get it, and they can like them without other people needing to tell them they're wrong for not having the same opinion as the majority of people. Kinda think everyone needs to chill out and not take things too seriously.

[@strutit]

Yup agree. I was one of the ones that loved it too. This guy made good points, but still loved it!

[@HalfBakedProductions420]

Why so serious?

[@werideatdusk]

Haven't seen the movie yet but still have some hope for it And definitely agree that it's annoying how everyone feels like they have to be in lock step with the consensus when it comes to movies, TV, music tastes..

[@abigailgoss8107]

AGREED

[@alissalapuaho2553]

Yes! All this hate on it got me so sad. It makes so much sense that this was how the story ended. I thought I was the only person that enjoyed it.

[@blarghwagurder]

This should have never been connected to DC or the Joker title. It is a phenomenal character study, but after he delves into madness in the first film, you have to let him have a bad ending as a character than as Arthur. Its just a bad re-imagining of the character, but a fantastic character & story as it is. The music numbers were too numerous also.

[@The_whimsickal_artist]

" I hope my death makes more cents than my life" You're death doesn't make sense arthur.

[@balthazarmayrena600]

With how the box office is going, I don't think his life will make cents either.

[@eganias]

Don't agree with this video at all. I really liked the movie. He was the Joker until he wasn't. This was an excellent Elseworlds story...both 1 and 2.

[@desiroots7806]

Why did the judge look like Martin scoresesse 😂

[@The_Infamous_Boogyman]

Guy in the venom 3 trailer, at the casino, looks just like Marty too. Guess people didn't like his comic book film comments 😅

[@briangreene7085]

@@The_Infamous_Boogyman haha, imagine if that was what it actually is?, you're probably right haha

[@TalentCaldwell]

Well Scorsese was an executive producer on the first film and inspired a lot of Todd Phillips’s approach on these movies.

[@paulhooley5687]

Honestly overjoyed you brought up THAT scene in the toilets/showers. It was ridiculous and completely over the top out of place with the rest of the movie. Shock value and unnecessary. Also, Harvey Dent? Possibly the smuggest character ever put on film, in the most uninterested courtroom drama ever put to film too.

[@caldervanegas240]

You know what doesn’t suck Transformers One go see that!

[@everettenjeze6276]

The beauty of art and film is seeing the different lessons and ideas someone takes from. The beauty of joker was seeing the conversations between people and their thoughts on the film and how it affected them. The film is incredibly relatable in modern times because many people shit on others for being different and not “normal”. Their was so much nuance and beauty that an art house character study film on a comic book villain like the joker made and billion dollars and was loved by all for shining a light on the dangers society neglecting people who really need help or they might create a monster like the joker. Joker 2 says “fuck your nuance, Arthur Fleck is evil and deserves to be a punching bag for everyone”. Btw at 5:39 this what pissed me off the most: the brilliance of the ending was showing how joker through killing Murray and sending Gotham into hell and crime created the Batman thus having Batman and joker born on the same night which represents them both being two sides of the same coin. That means nothing with joker 2 now. Thank you Todd for giving us something we never wanted lol.

[@platypusnoise]

Real Legends start their video with a voice crack

[@carlitoclassico]

This is the best breakdown yet! You nailed everything I couldn't articulate as well. I wish I'd never watched this film. Thank you! 👊

[@jordanwhite352]

What's been so hilarious about watching the reaction to this sequel? Is that every single complaint that everyone has about this movie was every single complaint I had in the first movie. And yet the first movie was beloved while this movie is now reviled. I was actually worried we were going to have yet another Avatar situation where this movie would have equally as sucked as the first and thus get like perfect scores and a billion dollars again, just like the first one, but I'm glad that it seems that hasn't happened.

[@usapostate23]

So the first movie lacked the Joker killing people? Had the Joker gang raped and murdered? Had intrusive musical pieces that interrupted the narrative? I call bullshit.

[@je5406]

Get off your high horse. This movie is a middle finger to movie goers like you.

[@x4xwolfmanx4x]

I couldn't figure out why the hell they made a 2nd joker when the first one was boring and awful.

[@jlguidry2]

Yes. Avatar has always been vomit.

[@usapostate23]

@@x4xwolfmanx4x I can appreciate consistent takes like this, even though I liked the slow-burn personal drama of JOKER, but as a one-off.

[@BlackThoughtTheOverLord]

Really good points here. I was never really fan of the first film due to the fact that Philips used Scorses King of Comedy and Taxi Driver as inspiration for that movie. I mean the idea of having the sequel as musical for me made no sense. The audience that loved this film and the character are hardly the type that would rush to see the next musical being released (that's just my opinion).

[@sergiodanielbentomesquita5762]

Nah man… i couldnt disagree more with everything you said… i found this movie an absolute masterpiece. Everything does fall on the right place, cinematographically spectacular, and the musical scenes as a metaphor for Arthur’s insanity, is just perfect. Enjoyed every bit of the movie as i did not expect this guy to be the joker of the dc universe. This is a movie about mental decay and societal abuse. And an exhausted human being that has been broken so badly, he abandons even the only shield he had put up aka the joker persona. You cant tell what s real or what s Arthur’s delusional mind. And that s the beauty about it, it is down to you as a spectator to believe what it is given to you. Or not. A solid 9/10 for me.

[@joesmith201212]

OK warner studio plant tell me how much Warner pays you to post garbage

[@apexoldguy]

I admire your opinion,as you have quite diverse tastes and for me this film should've been the continuation of Arthur Fleck being the joker.... Not this lol

[@hermanpesina6328]

When the trailer first dropped i asked my wife "what's this movie supposed to be about" ? It felt like it was just ment to stay a trailer.

[@endre1989]

So Joker isn't even the real Joker? Never fights, or meets Batman? And actually it's a fucking musical? What the actual fuck? I loved the first one though. Never gonna watch this piece of shameless shit.

[@keeklawless9248]

I’m guessing Philips just wanted out. Not sure if he was originally contracted for 2+ films. Afraid of his own creation? And built a story specifically around that point?

[@kazetoame]

Iirc, he went on record that it would a stand alone movie. Of course, that flew out the window with the box office reception and the awards. Maybe, just maybe, he should have stuck to his guns about it being a one and done.

[@BrianCabbage]

I kinda like this movie and I think to enjoy it you just have to think of it as a movie about a guy named Arthur not the dc character the joker

[@ReasonbyNight]

I dont understand why so many people ignore the ending. True to Comics or other movies, Joker doesnt have one origin. He has often multiple ones. In one comic there are 3 at once! And in the end of this movie Arthur dies, so Joker can live on. Another one embraces it and so Joker is not a person, its an idea, a chaotic force and Batman surely will fight a Joker. I loved that ending. Arthur couldnt handle it, to be that thing he created, but he was the spark.

[@Rico513]

The majority of the people hating are incel Joker stans. And it is disappointing to see Paul fall victim to riding outrage bait KZbin algorithims.

[@ReasonbyNight]

@@Rico513 Thank you so much! I thought my wife, my best man and me were alone on liking that movie. And yeah, Paul is the best, but it was sad, that he was repeating the internet hate of butthurt people, crying over unfullfilled expectations. First movie people said it stole too much and now it doesnt give a fuck anymore and people loose their minds. Just because its like The Joker: Unpredictable and doesnt care about your opinion, while showing the brutality of Arkham (its supposed to be hell) and depicting mental illness the right way, while also embracing the legacy of Joker. I wonder how that all is so overseen.

[@BlueLionsTVNiiNiiFC]

@@ReasonbyNightagreed

[@Rico513]

@ReasonbyNight Well said. Tried of how Disingenuous the internet is. I enjoyed the movie for what it is, mainly because I'm not a degenerate Joker Stan in a parasocial relationship with him lol.

[@matteoatigui2411]

​@@Rico513 Oh you're so much better than everybody on the internet , you out here calling people names you know ... THE SAME THING THE DEGENERATES DO

[@michelerice]

Thank you for vocalizing exactly how I felt. The first movie is still great and don’t let your realization of where Phillip’s “inspiration” came from sully your opinion of it. He still evoked the emotions from his audience that he intended, and I always give credit to any filmmaker who is successful in that. You enjoyed it as is, and can’t really ask for more than that.

[@DarkSagauk]

I find it incredibly disrespectful to Heath Ledgers memory to even try to connect it to this trainwreck of a film. Heaths joker was amazing and arguably one of the best this well cant even call it joker doesnt even come close.

[@Helixium08]

Did Todd actually HAVE to make a sequel? Was there some clause in his contract for the first movie that says he would have to make a sequel if asked? If not, why is everyone saying Joker 2 is his FU to the studio for "making" him direct a sequel... he could've just said no...

[@JeffreyPaguirigan]

It's Arthur fleck not joker

[@ratelofverdun]

I have to disagree with the negative reviews of Joker 2, I actually thought it was brilliant. I think what the director was doing is really humanizing the character. Arthur has went through this insane journey in the first film, where the second film is just this human being trying to deal what the aftermath. Both films are essentially a man going through a massive mental breakdown. This is seen in the the 2nd film with him fantasizing his situation in the way of the musicals that he loved growing up with. The musicals and music that were, no doubt, a happy distraction to the brutal home life he had as a child. In the end, he's a man coming to the realisation that he is just a man and not special, and wanting people to love him for who he is rather than the (batshit crazy and manipulative) women im his life lying to him about what he is (ie his mum telling him he'll bring joy to people and Harley telling him hes the joker and not Arthur). They reject him for being him and not something else they want him to be. The (real Joker) who kills him at the end has turned Arther into an idol, dehumanizing him further. I also love how the film confirms my belief, that only psychopaths actually enjoy musicals because theyre all awful! (Blues Brothers doesnt count as thats a movie about a band and not a musical - I dont care what anyone says) What sane person just starts singing in the middle of a conversation? So Paul there, i accept your challenge by saying this musical is better than ALL musicals cause musicals are shit! Love the channel and your breakdowna anyway, always my first place to go.. Screencrush is second! 😂

[@MisterSinisterReviews]

As I said in my review of this movie. It should have been a standalone movie. Left it at that.

[@vixxcelacea2778]

The whole "hes' a great example of what someone beaten by society is like" is the reason I still like TDK one the most. Even if we never saw Joker become Joker, his entire philosophy was that one bad day would turn anyone into him. This parallels a lot of tragic villain stories, Sweeney Todd is another good example and in the musical, it's literally in the lyrics to reference that anyone could turn out like he did "Sweeney waits in the parlour hall. Sweeney leans on the office wall. No one can help, nothing can hide you, isn't that sweeney there beside you." All they'd need is a little "push". My personal conclusion was always that Joker isn't wrong for his specific view, society is messed up, but to assume everyone is in fact just like him is just wrong, also, there are much better ways to respond. There are also too many small factors in a persons life that can change how they respond to the same thing as another. Trauma isn't universal, anymore than anything else is. Hormones, genetics, if they were even hungry or not at the time x or y happened. I think with out even delving into what he actually went through (which everything he revealed may have been made up or a varied version of his truth) you could easily see his philosophy. He never hid that idea. If the previous Joker film basically walked the audience through that but with proof of the downfall in this version, then goes right back on it, then yes, that absolutely sucks. Also, I have no idea if Lady Gaga can act or not, but it does always make me think when someone gets into a film who was a music star that they're there for weird reasons.

[@elin111]

Just a reminder: Before these Joker movies the original plan was a movie for Jared Leto's Joker

[@pikeflowed]

i prefer Jared Leto compared to JOKER 2, it would have been miles better ! lol

[@jrocalmighty]

I’m amazed that so many people hate this movie. I thought it was really good and the perfect ending to this Joker’s arc. I think it was self explanatory that this was not “the” Joker, especially with Arthur being at least 30 years older than Bruce. I’m not trying to be the really deep guy, but I do think there are many folks who misinterpreted the first movie and came in with the expectation that this one was going to be a continuation of an antihero‘s arc. Arthur is not an antihero, he is a guy with real mental health issues that when off his medication has the inability to control himself and becomes extremely violent. The real issue is that the storyline does not fit the DC, or any other superhero, universe. The first one also had enough violence to satisfy the DC audience, but this one had none until the end.

[@darlalathan6143]

I haven't seen this movie yet, but from the review and the comments, "Joker: Folie a' Deux" fails as a sequel mainly because it isn't comic book-accurate as a comic book film should be, due to excessive realism, such as Arthur Fleck's prison rape, rehabilitation, Loser Archetype characterization, etc., when it should have shown him and Harlene Quinzell escaping Arhkam Asylum instead of prison together, and going on a Bonny and Clyde-style crime spree with their iconic-but gorier comedy-themed gadgets. Mental hospitals are unisex, while prisons are sex-segregated! I would replace the musical numbers with hallucination scenes, to demonstrate the characters' neurodiversity. Let's have a more hardened, streetwise, muscular, and tattooed Arthur kill his attempted rapists in the exercise yard with improvised advanced weaponry, such as a light saber made from a cigarette lighter and metal shop powered armor against their primitive shivs! "Joker" (2019) should never have had his origin during Batman's childhood, but during his adult Batman career, to enable them to fight as archenemies. It also should not have involved him in Thomas and Martha Wayne's murders, since Joe Chill was their original comic book killer. Arthur Fleck should have been a supergenius inventor and cult leader, to better function as a supervillain. His murder spree should have included his former boss, the children's hospital where he performed as a clown, the comedy club where he bombed, and the gang of delinquents who mugged him in the alley. It would have made a more satisfying revenge movie, and made him look more evil. If Todd Phillips was concerned about incel viewers' copycat crimes, he could have used the above advice to show Batman arresting the Joker after a long, bloody fight scene. 🤓😎🧐

[@Cacuofa]

The idea of making the second movie came because people were left wanting more moments of the Joker rather than Arthur Fleck. It was initially going to be a single film, but they made another one to satisfy that demand, and the Joker never appears. We are not the same as before, now we are even worst. And no Joker 3 could change this garbage.

[@astropunch101]

Should’ve been called “Joker: Fookin Doodoo.”