theZoomer: Self-Defence in Canada

[@Degenhodl]

the only person with a brain here was the audience member, Michael.

[@KickinItWithMya]

What a joke, the people who feel you shouldn't be able to protect yourself have never been in a bad situation.

[@KickinItWithMya]

Previous governments?! Dude this standing government has had a decade to fix things and its gotten worse.

[@jay_kay709]

Nope, the White Liberal western woman brainwashed by feminism has a world view based on toxic racist nonsense that says it's her fault for being robbed cuz the addict is the real victim

[@CCFRtv]

"Our laws should be there to protect us" - Hanya Well said.

[@lordlossthedead]

Let us remember the best defense is a good offense

[@apex403]

40:54 "Weapons can be used against you" .... THEY ALREADY ARE. The criminals don't care about breaking the law of acquiring illegal weapons and using them. If criminals cared about the law, they wouldn't be criminals. In Canada we lack the basic ability to even match "force for force" with our ridiculous laws.

[@RandomUserYTisFailing]

Gun crime up 106% by "illegal firearms" but it's the legal citizens wanting to properly use what is available to us that are the problem...

[@SuperSuperdude88]

yup 70 year old women should LEARN self defense. good advice. edited: not clear but i was being sarcastic!

[@a.c.e.7568]

Why do Trudeau's security team and the police have guns if they cannot be used to defend you?

[@anygoodimaydopocast]

Because the state wants a monopoly on the ability to commit violence. They want to control everything. It's nanny state bullshit and they aren't even good at taking care of people.

[@conz000]

Worth noting that in April 2024, the robber Jonathan Handel was sentenced to 18 months in jail, and the Province of Ontario withdrew their case against the store clerk.

[@mikeyipeekyeh]

So October 2025, he'll be headed back to the store, to "square things up" with the store clerk? Our justice system is pathetic. There is no justice for victims.

[@Dr.Science-d7r]

42:30 this man's face sums up the video. This panel is delusional.

[@bencheevers6693]

Holy crap I've never seen such out of touch people, I pray these people never serve on a jury

[@marcjampolsky5280]

The guy who said dog protection spray was illegal is blatantly incorrect.. It's perfectly legal to have on your for protection against dogs AND it's perfectly legal to use as a weapon of convenience if its use is reasonable

[@M8017.]

Bear spray is even better and legal.

[@glennheth3472]

​@M8017 If you're carrying bear spray in the city, you obviously aren't carrying it for protection from bears and you'll get a weapons charge.

[@loco4dogg]

@@glennheth3472 I guess that depends on what city you live in but the other day a returned to a garage in the city and saw wet bear track on the concrete floor where I was working just a minute before.

[@Halifaxbomber2]

@@glennheth3472 Bears can get to the city.

[@RandomUserYTisFailing]

That's not what I was told by the police in my city and Ontario Bylaw. My dog was attacked multiple times within a week of moving to my apartment by off leash dogs, I asked multiple sources what I could use to help my dog and myself. They all said nothing, no spray, no sticks, no bats, nothing. This was only a year or so ago too.

[@billdwyer5719]

Wow just wow!!! The people defending not having weapons for self defence are complete idiots and obviously haven’t been in a super serious altercation with your life or your families lives in danger!!! What makes you think that the older lady who asked a question is going to be able to use self defence or run away from a life or death situation??? Get off the damn drugs you’re smoking and open your damn eyes people!!!

[@jeremyc3911]

While well meaning, this whole discussion is flawed on multiple levels. The presumption that the attacker will ONLY have a knife at worst, is dangerous. Unfortunately a lot of people presume that due to very strict laws on firearm ownership in Canada, that somehow criminals will follow the law and won't have illegal, smuggled guns. We see on the news in the big cities these days that that is just not the case. It is infuriating that in a whole discussion on self-defense, that there was not even a few minutes exploring the idea of firearms for defensive purposes. I know the Canadian government will not only discourage this, but say it is not viable, but yet politicians employ armed bodyguards. On top of that, if anyone knew how rigorous the vetting process is in approving firearms license applications, they would not have to consider the possibility of mental health people getting access to them. Canada's gun laws are much more strict than the US, and even legal handgun owners are very restricted in ownership from extremely tight and controlled storage and transport processes, to only using the handgun at an approved range (approved by the Chief Firearms Officer of the province). Yet these legal gun owners are not the problem, but the politicians are scapegoating them while giving criminals who smuggle guns into Canada and use them for crime, a pass. As the lady in the audience implied, all this self defence class stuff is useless to someone who lacks the physical prowess or capacity to utilize it. Against a larger, younger attacker, the odds are severely against you. While I am not against the idea of learning to think more strategically and having environmental awareness, that only goes so far. Having your cell phone at the ready may sound fine, but in practice it is useless. If you have ever had to call the police and 911 in an emergency - but the time they show up the crime would have already happened. Ultimately we are our own first responder. All of us have the right to protect the life that we have, and not cede it to some criminal who wants to take it. I will not let my kids be fatherless because I chose to cower in fear of legal consequences over doing what I should be doing as a father and as a man. No one is talking taking the law in their own hands. As the lawyer said at the outset, there is a reasonableness aspect to the discussion. So would the average person do the same? When considering circumstances and how a court would view, it consider the reasonableness aspect as well as some others. And in looking at the original story of the storeowner, some lessons can be gleaned: If he had struck back in the store while the attack was either imminent or in progress, he would not be charged. The proportionality of how one defends themselves is important. Using a gun or a knife on someone who is unarmed will most likely incur charges. Also, obviously the party has to be innocent. If one instigated the attack, one can't claim self defence. In the original story of the storeowner, he was wrong to chase after the meth head and whack him with the bat, but it also has to be considered the raw emotions at the time - he was just attacked, probably within an inch of his life. Had the attacker's bat hit him somewhere like in the head at certain spots he may have suffered grave injury or death. I am sure the adrenaline was running high there, and many people would have done the same. He probably doesn't want that guy coming back to attack him again and may have wanted to subdue him so he gets captured and not runs away only to come back again. Personally I am in favour of citizens having the CHOICE to arm themselves with firearms IF they have been fully vetted with a firearms license and have gone through the mandatory training on how and when they can use it. Hunters and target shooters go through this rigorous regimen and you don't see them shooting up the corners of Jane and Finch in the big cities. It may not be for everyone but for those who are small, weak, frail, old, etc., it will provide much more of a fighting chance than silly martial arts techniques that may work for some, but I suspect for many it is only a feel good gesture. I'd rather be alive and have to face the legal consequences than to give up my life to a criminal who has no right to try to take it in the first place.

[@taurkon]

I agree 100% with all your thoughts and concerns expressed. Legal, vetted citizens should now be allowed to carry-conceal firearms. 15 years ago I'd have disagreed with my own comments, but not today. Politics need to be sidelined for this important discussion!

[@OraneenarO]

If someone breaks that sacred plane and forcefully enters into your home where you and your family resides I urge you to defend yourself and family. Preserving you and your family's life trumps silly laws upheld by silly people who have armed guards protecting them and theirs on our dime. And in the matter of the store clerk: in instances like these it's time we hold aggressors accountable for the emotions they provoke in their victims, which can lead to sudden outbursts of anger whuch is natural human reaction that occurs within seconds of being unjustly attacked. He wasn't responding to a tongue lashing nor a shove or even being spat at. He was clobbered from behind. A just response in my opinion.

[@kavinh10]

its funny how they think using a golf club is excessive force against a gang of teenagers committing home invasions. They're usually more impulsive and have little understanding for the consequences of their actions and even then according to this joke of a panel a senior can't even use a golf club to tell them to gtfo.

[@RealityCheckWithJayCooper]

This panel should be ashamed of themselves.

[@redubd]

Dear women, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not listen to either of the women on the left, the one talking about self defense and the one talking about phoning 911 if you feel uncomfortable. Neither of these women know what they are talking about and their advice will put your life potentially in danger. The self defense woman is 90lbs wet, she wont do anything to a man who is bigger, heavier and stronger than her. In my training, I regularly submit women who are higher belt/higher skll than me, simply because my strength and size is so advantageous. There are a plethora of youtube videos exposing the vast majority of womens self defense as ineffective.

[@enflam3]

"Learn self defense" Minimum 1 - 2 year commitment to become skilled and comfortable in your chosen self defense program. Massive time commitment (multiple sessions per week) and costly. A Baseball Bat is cheap and effective for the untrained. I would rather serve time knowing my family is safe by defending my home with whatever is accessible in the moment than potentially watch them be carried out in body bags. Firm Stand Your Ground and Castle laws should be implemented so victims don't have to carry the burden of using reasonable logic when the attacker is 9/10 acting in an unreasonable manner.

[@jonathansnow8222]

I love it when people who've never been in the situation they're commenting on start saying things like "he should have done this or that". That guy walked into the store and hit that guy with a bat. Yes they got the bat away from him, and yes the criminal was turned around when he was hit. Here's the thing, the worker has no idea if the guy had a secondary weapon on him like a knife that he was going to pull it out and use. All he knew was a guy walked into his place of employment and used a deadly weapon on him. He hit the guy, knocked him out cold, and prevented the violent offender from hurting him or anyone else. It's absurd that he's being charged at all.

[@kavinh10]

sadly that's why we have a jury system, the middle-upper class who form lawyers and judges suffer very little of the problems the average canadian has.

[@cbyron9308]

A number of these “experts” are sadly lacking in practical knowledge. It boggles my mine that they think they could use “training” to handle someone twice their weight and strength, not alone a knife.

[@thamomentum]

If you break into someone's house. You lost all rights for your self defense.

[@SuperSuperdude88]

so learning martial arts is ok for self defense?? but guess what? a big strong dude vs a woman that knows self defense will win every time

[@deebee4575]

I have news for you. An average man who knows no self-defense can beat a woman who knows self-defense just about every time.

[@skylerdylan1005]

I can’t believe the sad state of our self defence laws.

[@BCvictoria]

Lindsay Ceveiro is out toblunch in this one. Watch Runkle of the Baileys reaction to this. The real lawyer perspective on this video is very entertaining.

[@captainmaim]

came here to say this. Get yourself a Runkle, Lindsay!

[@muskratdove]

It seems as though "expert" has become synonymous with "idiot". Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six. Go Michael!

[@mikeyipeekyeh]

The 2A levels the playing field for those that choose to exercise their right to keep and bear arms. It makes a 100lb female as strong as a 250lb male. It makes a 71 year old man able to stop an assailant 3 times younger and stronger than him. It is the best deterrent for these types of predator/prey situations, when the bad guy predators have to consider that the prey might be armed and able to fight back effectively, they might not attack, knowing that they could wind up as the injured party, and their justice system supports and acknowledges their basic human right of self preservation, and defense by any and all means possible. It's a big responsibility, deciding when to use, or not use, deadly force (our police forces could use some serious remedial training in that regard) but the rewards are worth the risks, in my opinion. In Canada, we are forced by foolish antiquated Utopian Kumbaya laws to retreat, shelter in place, call police (when seconds count the police are only minutes away) and wait for police to arrive. They've created a society made up of sheeple. In the wild, what usually happens when you encounter an apex predator like a wolf or a bear, if you run away? You wind up as the entree. It's no different when humans interact in a predator/prey situation. No matter what politicians and bureaucrats tell you, YOU are responsible for your own personal safety, and all humans should be able to defend themselves using whatever means they have at hand when confronted, without fear of legal recrimination or prosecution. Victims wouldn't be victims if they could exercise their rights effectively and without downstream second guessing by police and a justice system that wasn't a witness to the event. Better to judged by 12 than carried by six.' When Michael in the audience posed these questions, the lawyer defended our right to self defense, but didn't mention the "judge will ask all sorts of questions after the fact" which was his prior caveat to self defense in Canada. Lawyers are not my favorite people. For that double speak, among other reasons.

[@ibrahimm2012]

Before u support the drug addict imagine for a second your kid was working in the store and was attracted by the addict and what if your kid get injury that his life is over .

[@craftsANDRANDOMSTUFF]

Did the store clerk know that the addict could not come back with a gun after 2 min?

[@SuperSuperdude88]

"we'll just call the police for help! and wait 20-30 minutes for them to show up!" ya remember how cops behaved during covid?

[@amsams2716]

Wow. This panel is as uninformed as it is incompetent. The lawyer who is clueless about the subject matter, the " marshal arts expert" promoting her business - these folks are trouble as they give you a completely wrong advice and information. Where did you guys find these "experts"??? PS Thank you Michael from the audience. The lonely voice of reason.

[@EvilvonScary]

what a huge disinfo and wishfull thinking show. All the kung fu in the world won't help you if your 5 foot and weighing a buck

[@davidcrawley587]

The fix in Canada is easy. Just don’t vote Liberal and we Can go back to the Canada we used to have.

[@BCvictoria]

There's a lot of wrong information in this video. They should try again.

[@Kaledonius]

The majority of your panel of "experts" lack any expertise. The lawyer does not seem to understand the law regarding dog or bear spray, or what constitutes "reasonable force." Please revisit this topic with actual qualified experts.

[@Snowdog070]

Most of these panelists don't have a good grasp of reality. As for the opening video of the store clerk the clerk was wrong. He became an aggressor when he left the store with the bat in his hand and chased the perp hitting him in the back of the head.

[@justinventela]

Wow, this is why we cant have nice things. We all better start dressing like bums just to walk down the city streets for our own safety

[@voooduvooodu6032]

lol. So basically if you have to defend yourself... Don't call the cops. Let the birds and maggots clean it up. What a joke.

[@gordonshumway5370]

My biggest fear is that if i ever have to defend myself , one of the left side of the table will be on my jury

[@lavernekeller2283]

@gordonshumwat5370 totally agree especially if you live in a rural area in Canada it can be even longer than the ten to fifteen minutes in an urban center like in the area of an hour or longer. As the old saying goes when seconds count the police are minutes away if you're lucky so it's up to you and your guns that are the only defense of your self, family, and property. There's another saying better to be judged by twelve than to be carries out by six of your friends even though the process can seem like the proggies punishment to you for defending what's yours. That's why when the next government get's in they need to enact a castle law for all citizens to be able to stand your ground and defend your homes, along with adding a right to carry and own a firearm for those who wish to be able to use it for self defense against the scum that the current government has allowed into our country. I know if I had a daughter I'd be telling her to carry at minimum dog spray or one of those oh so threatening stun guns,

[@tylerfortin3239]

This actually cost me braincells to hear

[@terenceh7511]

Message here is "Don't Call the Police"

[@kerfymon]

I hope nobody takes self defence at that gals place, she is clueless on the subject.. as is the whole panel. lol..smh

[@Al.W7263]

The gentleman was at home when these rounders broke in. He grabbed a golf club and they kept coming towards him. There is enough probable grounds for him to go practice his chip shots.

[@OraneenarO]

Another reason why I hate tv programming. This particular discussion needs time to flesh out. These 1 hour segments with ads in between is nauseating. We need more time to poke at these hypotheses of the panelists especially with someone like miss "turn the other cheek" Kumbaya nonsense. Telling people that no one gets up with the intension of "robbing that old bxtch today" is misleading and disingenuous. People get a high from performing such degeneracy and look forward to doing it. At the end of the day this discussion is a good START but it definitely needs to be an ongoing discussion which at some point will lead to Canadians being safe, real safety, not some politician gaslighting "we'll keep you safe" crap. Real personal safety.

[@anomaly8751]

Good luck if the clerk is whyte. No way will they show mercy if you defend yourself. They will send you into hell.

[@robjones5801]

It's sad but this is the world we now live in. In the forty years that I rode on the TTC I've had some close calls, including being threatened by a black teenage girl, who told me, "I will stab you in the gut, no shit!", because I refused to allow her to cut in line while waiting for a bus. I was body checked by a very large indigenous man while walking on Yonge Street. If I was not heavyset, he would have knocked me down. But I had shooting pain in my shoulder for months afterwards. My best advice is, practice situational awareness at all times, especially in public or while taking public transit. Carry dog spray (you can buy it on Amazon Canada) and be prepared to use it. Only use it if you are being threatened with a physical attack. If you have to explain yourself to the police later, make sure to tell them that you carry it because you are afraid of being bitten by dogs. Do NOT tell them that you carry it for self defense against people. Try to avoid conflict as much as possible. If you see someone who is acting erratically or who is a potential threat, quickly move away from them as far as possible.

[@motorteeth]

Something to remember... not many of us can afford the court/lawyer costs that come with having to defend your use of self sefense.

[@ianbradley2262]

I had somebody try to crawl through my window and I did threaten him and then a week after that somebody Else tried to steal my motorcycle battery and I came out and I threatened him as well. The police were here. They seen what I said on the video camera cuz I have radial surveillance. They were like you can't say that you're going to annihilate the person and destroy them. I told them I don't care anymore. You don't want to do your job. You don't want arrest these people then you don't want. I'm done. I will not go by Justin Trudeau laws. Sorry and as for this person, think you thought you shouldn't be able to self-defend yourself. Go get well you know

[@a.c.e.7568]

I carry a folding knife that can be opened with one hand for two reasons: to open my Amazon packages and for charging dogs that are supposed to be on a leash (city bylaw). I carry a knife like a I carry my wallet.

[@SuppaiMono]

Canadians aren't allowed to make the criminals fear committing crimes, only reduce their own fears of suffering substantial losses from them because they are only allowed to be victimized sheep their own law enforcement is incapable of protecting. And of course promoters of empathy, prohibition, and investing in multiple layers of defense like a good little consumer will shill self defense lessons. Not to say they can't help on "an even playing field," but If a criminal draws on you or there is a substantial physical difference between you and an attacker(s) - good luck: you'll be lucky to not be dead or dying If you aren't running away as fast as your legs can carry you.

[@claudio6863]

I can't believe how many things this panel got wrong

[@Flashback_Jack]

"Historic Liberty Village" LOL. Liberty Village didn't exist prior to around 2000.

[@coreysullivan7401]

He ask 2 people? Wtf

[@EthicsOfWar]

This is fucking embarrassing.

[@godspeed2u]

Wow what a intelligent panel lol

[@docdreman]

I can’t believe the utopian BS being shared by the martial arts “expert”. My primary art is knife fighting and I can tell you that even an absolute novice with a blade is not something her “high pressure training” is likely to deal with. So the idea that the more “self defence” you learn, the less you need weapons, is frankly the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Just for reference and perspective, this is 35 years of street worthy martial arts experience talking.

[@Anna-t3v7r]

Abuse couses mental heath ..... get it strate ....thats a fact ..Truth ...

[@dylanrocha2442]

This is a joke….

[@davidcrawley587]

The Store Clerk had a right to detain the crook after the attempted robbery with force. The robber refused and needed force to be detained. The robber should have stopped and waited for police to arrive.

[@magallanthepenguin9132]

yes i am against guns in the canada, but im pro self defense but not with fire arms. but even i admit this is ridiculous

[@zachklassen8278]

.....we are not prey. what a ridiculous take.

[@ImpulseToAdrenaline]

@1:55 - that wouldn't even be considered self-defense in America. Why would it be in Canada? If you're fearing for your life as the man is walking away. Then you're a coward who shouldn't leave their home. The threat was gone, out the store, and you chased him cuz u were in fear? lol okay, tell that to a Judge and Jury.

[@hanyakizemchuk6663]

Great show !!

[@trivialgravitas9581]

No

[@eatmypaint1]

What a complete joke. You have put more lives at risk because of these people who don't have a clue.

[@jamesmccabe2199]

if u disarm a person they are deemed no longer a threat in canada so if u then attack them then ur in the wrong

[@peteroehring695]

If they allowed people to defend themselves then the bad guys would think twice. In this case the baddy would escape.

[@fitzchamp]

The zoomer: all old farts.