Things Are Looking TERRIBLE For Coding Bootcamps in 2024 😬

I've been seeing a lot of bad things about coding bootcamps and learning code on the internet lately and I just wanted to share that with you guys.
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[@DorianDevelops]

What are your thoughts about coding bootcamps in 2024?

[@christineml1476]

Avoid like the plague.

[@cunnylicious]

a waste of time and money in this job market lol, better just self learn it

[@swojnowski453]

Here is the thing, have you asked yourself why you learnt to write? Did you want to it to write a book? Did you have an idea for a book before learning to code? Probably not. They taught you writing at school. Many people do not know what to do with that skill now, beyond writing a shopping list or an e-mail. Coding is the same, first you need to know what you want to write with it. If you want to be an author of books or at least articles, go learn your writing properly, if you want it for occasional letters for friends, do not waste your time for anything beyond basics. Bootcamps teach you to write, but they won't tell you what book you should write. You are an author, you should know. Programming is an investment in yourself and your future, but only if you think about yourself as an author and not as a journalist working for some local daily tabloid or an agency. So, learn to code, write your system which automates what you hate doing and move on to working with people. You can't stay long under the water first because you will go short of breath, second because there are monsters there, shark? In the digital world it is the same, the pressure on breathing is the precision you have to put in to get your result out, the monsters are the googles, the amazons, etc, you won't escape them. They have armies of people working for them, they will catch up with you. Your only choice is, focus on something small and do it really well, write you own beautiful book and sell it to people ... this is what you need your coding for. If you can't write go to school, if you can't code, it is better to learn from the beginning rather than bounce from website to website.Bootcamps are like other courses ,learn what you need, write what you want, then move on to working with people, coz there will always be place for people around other people. Digital world is not our natural world, as the sea is not. It is better to leave it to digital creatures ... and monster that have just started emerging from the chasms we have opened while chasing gold deep in the unknown ...

[@kamikazeeOG]

I might be biased but I learned a TON from FreeCodeCamp. They also don't promise the world though. I haven't checked it in a while but that site was responsible for me learning the lions share of python.

[@cunnylicious]

@@swojnowski453 tl;dr, at least writing courses dont lie to you with the promise of getting a job

[@user-qw5he9wj7i]

I started a bootcamp in August and got a junior dev role in December. It's true, you really DON'T learn enough on a bootcamp to be job-ready, you have to prove yourself with projects and be able to confidently demonstrate your technical ability and emphasise your willingness to learn to get your foot in the door. Don't lie and oversell yourself, employers are not stupid and can see straight through that.

[@sburton84]

A CS degree is not really any different in that respect though, all my CS degree achieved is getting my foot in the door, and 99% of what I know about coding I learnt on the job since then.

[@user-qw5he9wj7i]

​@@sburton84 The CS degree carries some weight though and would put you in a favourable position. My bootcamp certificate is no accreditation just a PDF with a name swapout. In any case, companies are just looking for competent workers who can prove they're capable of learning on the job. I count myself extremely lucky though I've not seen any success from my bootcamp peers.

[@sburton84]

@@user-qw5he9wj7i Yeah, the big difference is the fact that universities are accredited so you know what you're getting, and companies hiring you know you'll meet at least some minimum standard, whereas with a bootcamp you have no idea what you're getting, and as such neither will anyone looking to hire you.

[@ZiosNeon]

may i ask, how you got the job?

[@user-qw5he9wj7i]

Networking with recruiters on Linkedin.

[@ninjask8ter]

I attended The Chubb Institute which professed "the full immersion" coding school in 1999 and it didn't cost me anything. It was a rigorous COBOL camp. Their deal was that they would place you with one of their clients, and then take a portion of your salary for the first 8 months. Usually then the company would hire you directly. All 30 of us students were placed to work with one of their companies, before we even finished the bootcamp program. I worked for the company that they placed me with, for about 2 years programming w/ COBOL for the NYC FMS System, and then I transitioned to Web Development. I think The Chubb Institute was probably one of the first bootcamps even though they didn't call themselves a bootcamp.

[@NeonPixels81]

The “salary share” model seems to be a bit more rigorous and more beneficial because they have a vested interest in you getting a job and getting paid quickly after graduation.

[@ninjask8ter]

@@donaldjohnson-hq2su Was this in DC perchance? They had a Java program also in Jersey City that I attended.

[@petekrumb4936]

a doctor, an astronaut, a gardener and now a tech KZbinr, so inspirational

[@billybobthornton8122]

I see what you did there…

[@christineml1476]

Love your content, you cut through the BS and give us the info we need.

[@kairoswave]

I taught at edx, for cybersecurity and coding bootcamp, many people think a bootcamp will get them jobs but thats not true, we see the numbers and we see about 3-4 students get jobs after the bootcamp, 3-4 students out of a class 50 will get a job...most of the time the job they get isn't even coding related or cyber related, its help desk lol. To be fair the same thing can be said about a degree, many people think a degree will promise them a cyber or software role but it wont. so what is the best way to get in tech? hands on experience. build a portfolio, build projects, show you have skills, forget the certs, those are trash too, but hands on experience is valuable. this is why self taught engineers get jobs because most of the time they show they know the skills through hands on skills, projects, etc.

[@jansleyreal]

Not coding, but I’ve done a UX bootcamp, and it helped me stay accountable and was useful to learn the foundations of the UX process. HOWEVER, it was not enough to land a job, and requires a lot of work after the bootcamp to be reasonably competitive.

[@wetsand7379]

Same :/ I was a designer for 2 years but it was a terrible agency job. I haven't been able to find another job since and I owe $36k because I did a stupid ISA + living stipend.

[@ezbg]

Same The marketing certificates not enough to claim you have experience with the particular specialization or get a job

[@destinyschild5768]

I did a $5000 digital marketing certificate and it was good but would never do again or recommend. Employers don’t care about your certificate. They care about experience. I got my job by working for someone for free then got a full time offer 2 years later

[@justsid]

One of the renowned and venerable coding bootcamps here in San Antonio, Texas known as CodeUp recently shut down. They had the advertising down to a T and drew many, many, many a student. I almost fell for it but backed out last minute. Best 10k, I've never gambled away.

[@Karuska22ps]

CS is oversaturated to oblivion

[@Anthony-ku2bb]

Thanks for the blunt honest truth. Definitely very helpful.

[@Kerwell]

im a self taught dev, to the point where im just trying to hone my skills and doing more projects. I thought about getting a loan for a bootcamp, but was leaning against it. I can't really afford to get the degree, so the besti can do is work on it. I'll just keep grinding and hope it works out

[@cowl6867]

Best course of action is not to just do projects. But create your own business, aka solve other people's problems until someone notices. This is and will always be the optimal way to get you hired or get attention

[@AFollowerOfCanti]

wouldnt recommend getting a degree. Thats the negative infinite money glitch. I got my comp sci degree, and there are just no jobs out there for us and now i have debt.

[@ehhhhh491]

are you in united states?

[@jakob6123]

Try looking at WGU Computer science, $4,000 bucks and six month terms. That's is what I am going to do to reduce the amounts of loans and time.

[@luisv8887]

Leon says that all bootcamps should be about networking and then coding so if you already know coding then watch his videos for the softskills tips and skip the programming.

[@chrisnortonjr]

Bootcamps generally give you a crash course in development but not enough for employment, especially with this market. My buddy's wife just got out of one and they paid 20k for her to not find a job. They didn't tell her that she needed to have a portfolio with projects and I'm sure they didn't tell her what types of projects she needs. So now I'm coaching her on stuff that her bootcamp should have taught her.

[@natescode]

Yup and university is $40k over 4 years to learn theory and still not get a job. It is rough for all new devs now

[@chrisnortonjr]

@@natescode yikes! That explains why, I keep hearing from employers that colleges aren’t preparing the youth for the real world and they’re starting to dread hiring young people.

[@audibleman7750]

@@chrisnortonjr At the uni I'm at its all remote and the teachers hardly want to teach which is infuriating to me. Most students in comp sci classes at my uni right now who are passing already are in the field and have some experience while the one's who are fresh get thrown into the wilderness and to fend for themselves. Like if I'm gonna self study my way through the courses what was the point of paying for my comp sci degree. I honestly could have saved my money and time learning it at my pace and actually learning rather than rushing to the next deadline. Honestly I still want to get a job related in the comp sci field but with all these shenanigans it really is making me second guess my choices.

[@chrisnortonjr]

@@audibleman7750 I can totally understand, I was one of those guys already working because I knew the teachers taught for exams and not practical use. I still say a degree is worth having because some companies still use it as a gatekeeping mechanism despite it only serving as an expensive wall decoration.

[@stinky9067]

See I wish I went self taught, but camparatively I can say at least my bootcamp told me some things like that. They had us build a portfolio website immediately, I forget if it was before the course started or in week 1. Given I have to build a better one than what I could make back then but still. Then we made some projects that I could put on there but aren't that great, you know your weather apps to do lists and such. Edit: I got curious and just looked back, creating a portfolio site was a part of pre-work before the class even started.

[@user-kq7sg3qp8n]

Even with a degree I've heard it's more difficult.If that's the case all non traditional software paths are going to be under distress

[@armyoftwo13]

I’m going into tech, going back to community college to get a certificate. I know the odds are stack against me, I will get a tech job no matter what. Good luck to everyone!

[@SandraWantsCoke]

Just keep on grinding, making a portfolio and you'll get there. I recommend Java+SQL as it's the most used stack everywhere with the highest amount of job postings.

[@Karuska22ps]

CS is oversaturated to oblivion

[@jennifersilves4195]

​@@Karuska22ps Not really.

[@Karuska22ps]

@@jennifersilves4195 there's over 100k new CS grads every year now and growing. So you tell me

[@dreamz808]

​@Karuska22ps with bad programmers

[@HuGiv5]

I remember some bootcamp asking me for 7000€ lol I bought some Udemy courses and study by myself. 4 years later I'm an Advanced SQL Developer with loads of knowledge in other languages as well 😂👍

[@QuantumLegal]

I do the same. Books, the occasional Udemy, and KZbin are usually enough.

[@kairoswave]

yeah udemy made me a devops engineer and now a cybersecurity engineer.

[@rennydaniel8859]

How much did the entire Udemy coursework cost you?

[@woody-xm5ve]

I did the same to supplement some of my knowledge after college I was a tester before then became db/Linux sysadmin, iot developer now I worked as an ML engineer. I actually kind of regretted going to college but I think it helps a bit. Just look for other alternative to save other than getting into debt. Good luck all!

[@XenogearsPS]

@@woody-xm5ve Yeah, but when your applying recruiters want to see that degree. They automate your resume and if its not what they're looking for it gets deleted.

[@richboii6597]

Companies used to be desperate for developers but now the market is SUPER over saturated. There are 60k computer science grads every year and even those people are having a lot of trouble finding work. I think it’s like 90%+ of developers have at least a bachelors degree. If I’m a hiring manager and I get 200 applicants why would I even look at someone without a CS degree when there’s 100+ that have one? This is what happens when things get overhyped. It just is what it is.

[@tyrantula767]

I think you’d might hire the other guy if he has medium level projects built in the stack that the company you’re hiring for uses. Say you’re looking for an entry level web dev that is proficient in React and .Net. Guy 1 has a degree and only know some C and Java, and has lot of knowledge about theoretical things like compilers, data structures, algorithms, and operating systems, but hasn’t built a single website. Guy 2 has no degree, but has built 2-3 websites using html, css, React, and .Net. Guy 2 code quality is decent and the apps are functional, but there can be some improvements in speed and visual quality. I’d argue that Guy 2 could probably contribute within a few weeks and be beneficial to your team relatively fast. Guy 1 would take several months before he could contribute, because he has to learn several languages and frameworks before he can make a contribution to your team. Yeah Guy 1 knows some theoretical things that probably would make his code in C and Java run faster than Guy 2’s code, but he has to learn the languages and frameworks that Guy 2 already knows and can use. If you wan t to be a developer, don’t give up.

[@curtisking7398]

The reason they would hire someone without a CS degree is because of their programing ability, experience or the projects they built.

[@Karuska22ps]

CS is oversaturated to oblivion

[@dekumutant]

​@@curtisking7398building some projects doesn't prove your understanding of com sci fundamentals

[@dexzero]

This is the main reason. Pivot and get an on demand engineering degree (civil, mechanical, electric, etc)

[@dweblinveltz5035]

I could talk at length about bootcamps, what to look for when researching them, etc, but honestly this point in time may not be a good comparison. It's super hard for anyone to land that first job right now, whether you're self trained, college grad, or a bootcamp grad. When i finished my program (one that I would vouch for as one of the good ones), my colleagues were sometimes even landing jobs before the graduation date. It took a bit longer for me (3 months), but the program didn't abandon me during that time frame. There was support if I needed it all the way through. I still keep up with the activities of that program. While it used to be totally in person, covid forced it remote. The job market is so much tougher now, I know plenty of new grads that didn't land jobs within 6 months. Some of them are having so much trouble, they're trying to pivot into game development (also with the program's help). That isn't to say that some of them aren't still getting hired, but that is just to the credit of this particular program.

[@DennyCLe]

May I ask what bootcamp you went to?

[@mattmatt7998]

To say the least, they're EXPENSIVE AF. Thanks for your content 🙏

[@moodsurfer]

How much do they cost in your countries?

[@angelg3642]

Nah, they are cheap af 💀

[@bjni]

Holy shit, people in NA are so brainwashed by silicon valley/cushy rich programmer stereotypes that they shoot themselves in the foot. if you take a more grounded approach there are PLENTY of jobs, No, you dont have to be paid 160-250k out of a bootcamp or a freshgrad at some fancy silicon valley startup or FAANG. for example over here in Japan there are tons of jobs that hire people with 0 experience and train them from the ground up, a 30k a year job is just a normal job, work that for a few years as a python coder optimizing the backend or dataflows for some energy company or some factory and keep learning and adding skills and when the job market picks up you will have actual years of work experience to apply to bigger companies if you wanted to.

[@AnotherDayattheDock]

unfortunately they outsource those jobs to India here, most dev job listings are above mid level and are senior positions to manage the outsourced india teams

[@Uchutanjyo]

Hey bjni, are you a programmer in Japan and do you have N2 certification? I lived there for a bit and am currently N3 level, starting on N2/N1 materials. Was wondering if you were aware of companies like the ones you mentioned who do not require fluent business Japanese - as I know this is basically the norm. Thx 😊

[@ThePetit1989]

Yup been in tech since 2015. First job was 40k, and it was a slow climb to where I am now. It takes time, and you have to prove yourself at the job to level up. Also took almost 2 years to get my first job. It takes time and dedication. Work other jobs while you’re learning and applying for the job you want.

[@potatoid-0158]

I feel really bad for my friend who graduated from Flatiron last year. He gave up his job search and is now in massive debt and returned to his job as an assistant manager at a gym making $18/hr.

[@Noface678]

It be like that. Tell him not to give up!

[@mikicerise6250]

So he found a job after the bootcamp? 100% job placement. 😎

[@TM-kh7el]

At least he took a chance on himself. He shouldn't give up on himself.

[@stupidgameprizes]

Meet more girls working at the gym counter though.

[@TDotRedemption]

Your friend should continue to work hard on side projects and keep applying. I had friends who graduated from Flat Iron and went on to work at FAANG and LinkedIn, but this was a couple years ago when the economy was good.

[@javgroman]

Thanks, Dorian for a well researched video. I'm sorry to see all this fall out for aspiring developers. I wonder if covid stay-at-home forced a lot of people into considering a coding job since a) they were at home on their computer a lot and b) work-from-home was gonna be the future and coding biz was the perfect future gig. It's a shame that a perfect storm for market changes have caught out a lot of people. Your video may provide some wisdom and perspective for many. Kudos.

[@boredpotato182]

Within the first 50 seconds you were able to describe my experience with Joy of Coding bootcamp. I was a comp sci major at my university for a while and they told us that in the summer of our second year we would get a paid internship minimum $20 an hour with knowing basic coding. I didn't do great in my intro coding class (c lang) and so I looked at joining a coding boot camp. That's when I learned it was like not a real service as we would just be working for her startup company as "students"

[@stinky9067]

I recently graduated a coding bootcamp and i'm very mixed on my feelings of it, I for sure got a lot of knowledge out of it, i had no idea where to start on learning to code, i'm in a better position in that regard but i have little to no hope of getting employment in the field in the near future, but also I learned enough to build a website for my wife's reselling business. I will continue the self taught route as i have a better understanding on how to do that now, but going to get a CS degree is not really something i can commit to where i am at in life currently, but is something i would love to do if i can actually just get into the field, but i work too many hours at my current job to go get a degree. Not to be that kind of person who is full of themselves, but i can confidently say i was one of the better performers in my class, but i dont know where the others are at in their job search at this point as none of them are active in our discord server anymore.

[@Karuska22ps]

CS is oversaturated to oblivion

[@dreamz808]

​@@Karuska22pswith bad programmers

[@Karuska22ps]

@@dreamz808 keep telling yourself that. Everyone and their mom wants to do CS now there's no jobs

[@reyreyalldayday5708]

I'm one of those students that got hired by a bootcamp. The market is quite rough. I haven't found a job in around 2 years. I've had some small contract stuff here and there. I can absolutely code, but hiring managers aren't really looking for that, they need that turn key employee that has has experience with the more nuanced stuff with coding jobs. Chicken egg forever.

[@SandraWantsCoke]

At this time you could've build your own website, an online shop or something like that, your own business? No? Thanks! And good luck!

[@angelg3642]

@@SandraWantsCoke You need money for that online shop. Where will you get that money 😂😂. You need time too but we pesky humans need food, sleep and shelter unfortunately and that requires money. Bro we have no money to buy that required time for such projects

[@trentonharrisphotos]

I went through 2 boot camps back to back . The reason I went through both because I wanted to use up the rest of my VA GI Bill benifits before they ran out. I agree with some of your concerns but I feel differently because of my experience. The school I went to had a track record of placing student in jobs.The reason I chose the school is because one of my former employees that I managed went through the same school and land a job a few months after attending. Also many of the local tech companies heavily recruited from the school. I truly believe that there was a shift after the FAANG layoffs in the beginning of 2023. After my demo day I had a few companies interested in me. It seems that it was like overnight that the companies just stop communicating. Since then I stayed in my original field and have been flooding resume's and one out of a hundred reply.

[@CodingPhase]

DAMN FAM.... You did a drake back 2 back lol sorry just had drake in my mind when you said back to back... wow that's crazy... hope you find a job soon try learning things outside of what the bootcamp taught you I bet you they focused on the MERN stack...

[@trentonharrisphotos]

@@CodingPhase Did a Java and Javascript back to back. The only reason is because my GI benifits was running out so no time to get a Masters so I went to a local bootcamp. They were pretty legit and the instructors were former students that had development jobs prior to teaching. Local tech companies, former students, and even google recruiters were some of the type of connection the school had. When I graduated Nov 2022 there was definatily a shift on the job market. Luckily I had someone needing me in my prior field (video production) .Called me about a job a week before I graduated. I took it to tide me over tilll I find somethign in Tech. After the tech bubble burst there were alot of people with experience in the market.

[@nickvandijk5460]

It's funny how situations can differ between countries. In Europe ( the Netherlands ) it's still an employee's market, companies can't find anyone for any position especially in programming. I have noticed that companies rather keep a seat empty than hire a bad fit. We've had a couple of bad hires and they set us back for months rather then making a positive contribution. We had people that worked as a programmer on their CV for years that couldn't complete basic tasks :P.

[@amb55555]

I'm currently in a bootcamp for full stack development. Now that I'm near graduating, I know that the company conflates their placement rates as well as places students in any job just to continue government and stakeholder funding. Some grads from the cohort of early last year still looking for jobs. It's just another cash cow dressed up like they are doing something for the underemployed community in my city.

[@Karuska22ps]

CS is oversaturated to oblivion

[@ingenieroriquelmecagardomo4067]

@@Karuska22ps lmao, imagine if cs is "oversaturated" now imagine these bootcamp dudes trying to get a job vs institutionally accredited candidates

[@dreamz808]

​@@Karuska22pswith bad programmers

[@DJVibeDubstep]

FSA?

[@amb55555]

local government (dept of ed) funding@@DJVibeDubstep

[@sburton84]

Only a small portion of what I learnt in my CS degree was stuff that was actually useful for a coding job, so I've no doubt that it's possible to learn all the necessary information condensed into 2-3 months of intensive learning and exercises. The real difference is that universities are usually reputable and accredited whereas there no standards or auditing of bootcamps, so you have no idea what you're getting, and people hiring have no way to know what you learned or didn't learn either. So you will still need some personal projects or open-source contributions to demonstrate your skills, just as if you were self-taught.

[@Karuska22ps]

CS is oversaturated to oblivion

[@Stck_verflws]

I graduated from a top university with a computer science degree almost 10 years ago & I have over 10 years of professional experience as a software engineer. 95% of the people I started with switched out of the program or dropped out. The crazy job market of 2021 and 2022 is not realistic! Only a very few people will last in this industry because it is competitive and it is hard work. The ability to write good clean code and to succeed in this profession has nothing to do with desire. You should be able to have a comprehensive understanding of coding to really apply yourself! I want people to know that the industry is NOT easy to get into. It never was! Stop wasting your money on bootcamps and education if you are not willing to struggle for success! Often, people have to be willing to take those lower level analyst jobs and do the dirty work before getting the chance to become a full stack developer.

[@lawrencemotions8720]

Thank you I agree with this most people don't have the aptitude to become an expert in programming I'm a novice myself but tbf I am bright most people have no idea what there talking about so can't hold a conversation about code they don't understand how the Internet works or how the script is being run I've met people I've caught up with in 1 year to there 4 years of uni I'm not great I just I actually have I high aptitude this really isn't for everyone you need to be able to articulate what you know also

[@ReelinRodgers2]

It’s people who don’t want to work and who don’t know what hard work is that do these boot camps and then think they can make $4000 just by typing their username and password and then live in Dubai

[@TheBusinessDiscussion]

silent prayer for people doing bootcamps now. Thanks for being open and honest about it man

[@LukeAvedon]

I just got a boot cramp grad a solid interview. There is totally a path from crazy boot camp to job still. I was self taught and agree it is better.

[@viniBR232]

Thanks man..I can't spend any resources anyway on my learning path, because 1 USD is A LOT of money for me...but knowing who to trust and who not to in my path to changing my life is always very appreciated. At the moment I finally managed to get an used laptop and get Linux running in a SSD. All I have is Odin Project so I'm starting with it and the VSCode website database. Look man, you may not know that but people like you who are honest and motivating are very important. Coding could get me out of a very sad and painful reality, and help me bring the people I love with me, so it's not just an adventure or a career swap for everyone. Thank you very much.

[@Seekingtruth-mx3ur]

Best luck to you man. I'm also struggling and it's not easy. My heart goes out to anyone who's trying to make it in this cutthroat bullshit rat race.

[@evan8168]

I hear Odin Project is a great place to start

[@SandraWantsCoke]

good luck, keep on grinding!

[@alexdudemeister]

I believe in your motive, I believe you will succeed

[@d.o.nmuzic3802]

Great vid. Very informative Tnx 🙏🏾

[@wetsand7379]

I did a UX design bootcamp a few years ago. Luckily, I was able to get a job but it was a shitty, low-paying agency gig. I havent been able to find another job since I quit 6 months ago. I owe $36k because I signed a stupid ISA + living stipend.

[@simpleandsuccess]

Love it - 1000% agree.

[@alexh2665]

As bad as bootcamps are, I think the problem is more so people wanting to learn coding with the objective of getting job within less than one year of learning to code. it takes Time and you really have to have a passion for it and understand that the money part comes later if you want to be a successful programmer and get a job. It needs to be a long term goal and you should want to learn to code solely for the sake of wanting to learn to code if that makes sense.

[@mikicerise6250]

That would be a great model if people didn't have this pesky addiction to food and shelter.

[@Karuska22ps]

CS is oversaturated to oblivion

[@mogbp7775]

What?!? You mean to tell me that people are wanting to learn to code to get a job to pay the bills?? And all within a year!?!? OMG how dare they.

[@Cjust15]

Agreed brother. Another issue is that tech KZbinrs “sell” dreams to people that want to transition in the tech industry. It’s problematic because they make it sound like it’s easy and the amount of money you can make (which is true you eventually make a lot of money) but they completely hide the fact it’s a journey process that won’t happen instantly more times than not. I’ve been learning Ux/ui design for almost 3 years now and I’m still without my first job. I’ve had a total of 2 interviews and one ghosted me but I’m not going to quit because of that. I genuinely want to grow myself in that field and I won’t allow rejection to keep me from pursuing what will happen. I’ve had plans that I’d have this job after 6 months or that job after a year and neither happened but that’s okay. Time takes time. I will become a professional ux/ui designer and those rejections will only make me have more of an MJ moment of “okay fine” heheh don’t give up boys/girls

[@mcmerry2846]

so, let's learn code to NOT HAVE A JOB AND JUST FOR FUN... 🤡

[@t.j.5574]

It’s interesting to hear this coming from a guy who graduated from Flat Iron School and then went off to get a job and is doing well. I wouldn’t be knocking off bootcamps if I were you. Worked in your case.

[@thetechdad87]

Well I start my first day at tech elevator tomorrow. I've watched lots of people start working in the industry while me going the self taught route have not. I think that on a local area tech elevator is worth it because they have lots of hiring partners in this area

[@margaritashamrakov]

Hi I am in Nucamp now, I agree it is just a crash course into development, and the amount of people I see in each class, I realize not everyone will get a job. I already paid for the bootcamp so I have to finish. But I definitely think Mosh is the best for learning IT , and his courses are free or 19.99. Udemy is great as well. I agree with you about bootcamps. I think that boat has sailed...

[@bobbyj731]

Employers will always go for what they perceive to be a better investment. In this case a degree/experience over bootcamped individuals since the market is much tighter now. Like any market I have no idea the direction of it. It could come back or we may find that devs are going to be on the decline. I don't find this to be especially pessimistic, its just reality of less demand and too much supply. It's better than lying to people saying all is perfect in the market.

[@guymontag5084]

I know a guy who accepted a $67k a year front end job with a BS CS from a top 100 university. Either he's stupid or the market is really tight.

[@angelg3642]

@@guymontag5084 Bro 💀💀💀💀💀 that's a damn good deal. Wdym

[@guymontag5084]

@@angelg3642 67k after 4 years of college is like comparable to accounting but you're more likely to get laid off in tech

[@neil4692]

Was on one last year that was a Government Funded Bootcamp and I am thankful that they chose to get rid of me and now I am going the Computer Science way. It was mostly online with people teaching you that was people from past cohorts of the Bootcamp. I was also convinced to go ask for help (through an online Zoom call) if I was stuck on something for 30 minutes which didn't fit in well with how I liked to learn. Now I feel while I am doing much fewer hours per day I am understanding it a lot better and I am not as pressured as I was during the Bootcamp as long as I keep up the daily work etc.

[@valenciawalker6498]

I'm curretnly in boot camp with flat iron school. Thank you for discussing .

[@ThomasTomiczek]

This is interesting, but besides the bootcamp side there are 2 additional structural factors. One, we hit a recession - the market is crap anyway. Second, by the time that is going to be over - and do not expect that to be fast - junior coders will have a fun time competing with MORE experiences coders that use AI to be more productive and the company thus eliminated the junior position. Ups. Not that more experience people will not be on the chopping line after some more time (possibly 1-3 years). This is a structural change that will be brutal. And there are those that see the economy in a larger view - from China (unemployment 25% and rising, 45% for unexperienced people) to the US also falling. This COULD be a 1929 style recession which took years and will TAKE years. And gain, AI is coming - right now it makes people 50% to 100% more efficient - but the next models are coming and if the recession takes 2-3 years, and another 2-3 years to hire all the people that did not get jobs (unemployed overhang) you are SERIOUSLY into the territory where AI has ALREADY gone through the job market and people are fired all over the place. And those jobs will never come back - we are on the verge of increasing the development speed of AI, by having AI train itself. A year or so and that is reality, latest. 5 years from now - Programming jobs will have gone the role of accountants. If you think "oh, but we still have accountants" - sure. In the old times, companies had FLOORS of accountants, every piece of paper was handled by multiple of them writing and summarizing it all into different books. Today it all is done in the computers. Consolidation of different accounts is a matter of zero time as the computer just does it. Smaller Companies do not have an accountant - they share one at a service provider. Know the little Christmas story about the 3 ghosts and Stooge? The main protagonist is accountant for Stooge. A job that takes a full-time person for what is a SMALL business - that was once. Programmers may well go the same way. Small specialized teams operating with large groups of AI agents. Which means that there will be a TON of competition and - cough - beginners may not apply while more experienced people are competing for the jobs. Welcome to the beginning of the singularity - enjoy the years 2023 to 2033, the time of change. You live in interesting times - which, essentially, is a Chinese curse. Those jobs will NEVER come back.

[@georgebaraza9141]

I had to go back to uni and finish my major in ACS (Actuarial Science). I started learning how to code in Feb last year and will be hitting one year into learning web development on 20th this month. It's really pretty hard to strike the right balance between studying for my Actuarial units and pushing commits on GitHub. I thank God I'll be completing my 4-year degree in April and create more room for me to exclusively focus more on building projects. I've already started applying for jobs but been receiving rejection emails for the last two months. But atleast for me, I believe I'll be set if the hiring managers shift their hiring gears, having a degree from a STEM specialty.

[@bogixl8806]

25:41 With the limited context given, the email would be at best an "offer," as in a proposition/invitation to bargain. At bare minimum there would have to be what is described as a "meeting of the minds" for an official agreement to take place that could be enforced in the court system, which in basic terms is a discussion between all parties involved on what is offered and what is agreed upon whilst all parties are sound of mind. (As a side note one cannot have a legally recognized agreement that is based upon an offer that states your non-response confirms acceptance as the bargain; that is illegal. An example would be I send an email stating "I'll teach you what a variable is for $3,000. Don't respond to this email for 12 hours if you accept.")

[@FF18Cloud]

I think the thing that always surprises me about this, and it always comes back to it, is how programs dont really emphasize enough to students to actually *like* software engineering and computer science You dont even have to do computer science in college to get decent software engineering classes. I did Information Technology with a specialization in game dev (because i *did not want to be a web developer, I really wanted to make video games* ) How i got my job was just being so stuck on "what classes will help me build my portfolio?" And i was so obsessed with personal projects and getting internships, and then web apps and getting internships and then getting my first job before graduating from college... Like, I look back how crazy my path really was when id still call myself a pretty mediocre developer... I just, really liked making things or feeling really fidgety when im not doing something, that I ended up doing a ton of stuff in college, and kinda with work the last 8 years... Now im doing a software engineering masters at a not so crazy high R2 school and as expensive as a masters sounds, i at least have breathing time to try new things While doing student orgs, game jams, and all that that i still do with my alma mater, game jams, hackathons, getting advice on stuff i make, etc... Dont look at coding as a job that pays cuz, you'll just be in the same bucket as other developers Pick a goal for why you want to code besides trying to help your family, and strive for that goal. The money will come when you find actually satisfaction with software engineering And the interviews become a lot easier when you are able to speak more on the knit-and-gritty besides some leetcode questions. Like know your CS, but thats not going to help you on the soft skills interviews you'll have

[@WetPig]

Good comment. I, hopefully, 99.9% sure, got a job as an embedded developer, after studying hard for a few months (I have a computer engineering degree, and working a similar role for 2 years). It's the only type of coding I don't find boring after 2 hours. I've done basic web development etc..., and the fact I don't understand how it works on a fundamental level really sucked the interest out. What I also find interesting is math related coding, with python, for example. I am not a good developer, by any means, but I always get things done with embedded hardware. I am 100% the company accepted me simply because I went on 10 minute rant about the projects I did at uni and how I spend 4 hours trying to debug an issue with an interrupt, finally seeing that my compiler was optimizing code... They started to ask me unrelated to the interview questions. When we finally started with the actual questions, on the last one, I said "In Denis Richie's "The C Programming Language", I saw this question and did it, in one of the first chapters". The two interviewers looked at each other, and just said, "Ok, just say how you did it in this case" (didn't want me to write the code). I honestly get a tick when I hear a "Coding BootCamp for web dev with javascript".... I don't even know why.

[@MooseMannequin]

I think to actually learn and become valuable in any IT profession, you should really love the thing you do or be really nerdy about it. I am a 3D artist and a teacher and I knew I want to be a 3D artist since I was 15. But I didn't have any progress and had to start over three times until something happened and I sat for a month from early mornings until late nights modeling like obsessed. Only then I really began. And I rarely see this in my students, some are lazy, for others it's just a fun interesting experience, but for one of them I gave the job of my second teacher for the last summer period, she is 11yo. Not everyone made for this. So it's not unusual that only 2 of them made it through, it's a statistic. And that's why these jobs are well paid.

[@keithgalway3414]

The skill of Web Development is developed from your passion for it, a boot camp or any paid studying is really a jump off point… to get good at it (and considered employable), not mentioning soft skills, the effort required is no different for any other trade… and exactly the same goes for the job search effort.. I don’t understand why web development has gained a reputation of being easy to get into, or some golden opportunity to escape your mundane depression inducing, soul crushing or low paying job.. it kind of isn’t.. for those whom web dev has been a successful transition, there’s something deep (such has having a passion for it and wanting to follow it) driving them, fear of being stuck in a boring 9-5 is not enough Thank you Dorian for keeping it real in your videos… I’m self taught, following your footsteps, with your videos as a source of motivation, joined a frontend online boot camp to give me a guidance - found it so fascinating that it naturally led me to learning backend and now I’m pursuing a full stack career - wouldn’t have been able to develop these skills without you KZbinrs and the encouragement you give 🙏🙏

[@sawyer4981]

I finished Lambda School (rebranded to Bloom Tech). It did not prepare me at all. Applied to about 150 jobs before the pandemic and prob another 200 during/after before I gave up. Only got 3 interviews. To add insult to injury, they tried to say my role as a customer facing Tech Support role was "qualified income". I had to threaten to take them to arbitration before they even considered an exemption. I don't know about other companies, but stay far far away from Lambda/Bloom Tech.

[@danielali9948]

what program did you take?

[@SmirkInvestigator]

Funny you mention mob tactics. There's word of mob cyber bullying or IRL raids(harassment) from one of the SF ones. Probably more about the spoiled kids in the cohort and less about the institution but who knows

[@CodingPhase]

yeah Holberton School is a school in Connecticut I had a subscriber reach out to me in 2018 and tell me he was going to go there and then came back to me in 2020 and I helped get his first job but till this day he still paying for the loan it's actually 3x the price of the average bootcamp.

[@DorianDevelops]

Man that's wild!

[@ddmozz]

Lol no, don't get a degree either. Just avoid coding altogether unless it's for entrepreneurship, to create your own product or ecommerce, or as a hobby. DO NOT become a tech employee. The good times for tech employees are OVER.

[@RobertDunn310]

I am currently doing a CS degree on WGU, but I have a friend who is employed in the software industry and he actually used to work at one of the coding bootcamps himself, and told me that essentially it was all about turnover. Getting people in and out as fast as possible and that the management did not really care about the students or their progress..just the bottom line.

[@rtothec1234]

The thumb made me think Johnny Sins is talking about coding bootcamps. I guess he has done every other occupation so why not computer programmer as well?

[@deanschulze3129]

My son went to a coding bootcamp and it has worked out very well for him. He had maxed out what he could make working as a transaction manager in real estate and wanted to get into software development. After taking an entry level position he got a promotion and then took a job working for the company that writes software for the Multiple Listing Service that realtors use. It is a good combination of his real estate and software skills. He's glad he made the switch and a coding bootcamp enabled him to do that. Dorian, if you think coding bootcamps are bad what do you think of the 4-5 years it takes to get a bachelors in CS? Or any other degree for that matter.

[@evan8168]

If you have a college degree, try looking for a defense contractor that is hiring. The job may not be glamourous, it may suck, but if you really just need a decent paying job out of school, defense contractors are often looking for new hires. My first positions were all for defense contractors. Earn some income and from there continue your journey towards the job you desire, but at least in this role you would be gaining experience working in a team environment and with other people (perhaps clients too), learning skills, and they typically provide all or most of the training you need to perform in that function. Also, the interview often just tests aptitude for the position and if you'd be interested in working in that role. I wasn't too into these roles, but I don't regret them either. It helped me at least get into the tech workforce and learn working with people, as well as to start earning income so I could explore what I wanted to do outside of work but also explore my own passions and hobbies too and enjoy myself like taking trips, going to music festivals and concerts, camping, etc.

[@ArchyTalk-ir4gm]

Did bootcamp in 2019 for web dev, was also studying iot in university. Didn't get a job til 2021 but as a TA. Later became a instructor for bootcamp and after school program. Still cant land a dev role but instructor role im gainng some traction. Tech field is extremely oversaturated and alot of people not going to make. Dont trust bootcamp coming from instructor that work an a boot camp. They are there to make money from you. Better off starting a business in tech or work in a different field.

[@topsykretts2264]

Employers don’t care about what’s practical for your life situation. That’s not a reason for them to hire you over someone with a CS degree that took 4 years. Sucks but that’s how it is. Either get a CS degree and some internship experience while in school or don’t waste your time at all because it’s tough out there. You’re competing with thousands of skilled people for just one job.

[@jeffnogo]

I went through a bootcamp-like system, but it was for data science. Some may know of it, but I liked it because it was free (and because of that had a very competitive application process), and they only made money if you got a job. So their incentives were all in the right place. Unfortunately, the week I finished/went on the job market was the same week the stay-at-home orders all started coming in for the pandemic. EVERYONE that I was interviewing with, immediately froze hiring, and then there were massive layoffs industry-wide. So, I was just starting out and now competing with a large group of unemployed data scientists with years of experience, for a significantly decreased number of jobs. People talk about how bad it is now, but mid-2020 was so much worse. I eventually found a good data science job, though, and I was happy with my experience. The program I went to, though, did not survive the pandemic since they made no money upfront and only made money on their students getting hired.

[@adama9032]

Thanks for the valued info brother

[@OvaseRashid]

I was going to start the odin project but after seeing this video it seems a bad idea considering the fact that the jobs in tech are tough for selftaught/bootcamps. Any suggestions from your side would be appreciated.

[@tyrantula767]

I think knowing the exact tech stack that a job posting wants can be a huge help. If you can build with the stack they use, they won’t have to invest much into your learning before you can contribute. I’ve chosen React + C#/.Net + MSSql. It’s one of the most common stacks that I’ve seen hiring entry level developers in the US that also isn’t popular and oversaturated.

[@Seekingtruth-mx3ur]

I'm still on Foundations and wondering if I should even continue with Odin Project.

[@vanysteves3735]

The IT job market sucks for every tech vertical right now. Companies have their pick of many highly experienced candidates. Regardless of the training quality, a noob can't compete with guys that have 6, 8, or more, years of experience.

[@yaizudamashii]

My wife went to a bootcamp in 2019, was finally able to get a job over a year later in 2021. Three years later she's a Google engineer. One thing to know is that her cohort didn't have bartenders or retail employees, instead had people from other mathy backgrounds such as neurology research or engineers of other fields. She herself was a quality assurance engineer. So bootcamps have their purpose, but the people who benefit from it may not be that many.

[@lepidoptera9337]

So she now works as a Google quality assurance engineer. Got it. ;-)

[@yaizudamashii]

@@lepidoptera9337 No, she's a Google software engineer, not necessarily doing QA, although I'm sure that she does that on her own code while developing.

[@lepidoptera9337]

@@yaizudamashii If you say so. ;-)

[@DarkRaviForDeath]

oh man, I interviewed with the lewagon bootcamp over a year ago and was so turned off by a question they asked me at the end: why should we take you on as a student. Like I was still needing convincing that I should join so felt like saying "don't, I don't care" lol. Oh well, gave a bullshit answer and they still accepted me, but I ghosted them of course.

[@angelg3642]

Naaah. Some questions are straight up bs and disrespectful. You proved yourself good enough yet they require more convincing. The question "what were you doing during this gap ? " Where you were most likely wasting your time applying to hundreds of companies and having 3-4 interviews per company and even when they know that process they expect you to tell them why you're still not hired 🤦‍♂. Even though most of them expect senior level knowledge juniors with intern pay. HR's are ruining the IT sector

[@NotAFanMan88]

For me, I went to a bootcamp that was attached to a contracting agency years ago. They tailored the curriculum towards web development for basic frontend / backend for the companies they dealt with. It was free of cost, the only catch was that they would contract you out for a minimum 1 or 2 years where they could place you with various companies. They only got paid if you worked for them, so honestly was a pretty good deal to guarantee you something to get the foot in the door. The bootcamps that cost you money upfront are total scams.

[@itcertdoctor]

While I'm not inherently opposed to the idea of bootcamps, you can get a self paced Udemy course for $10-15 on sale that is arguably better and more comprehensive than the $3-15k you'll pay for a boot camp. There's just no need for them in 2024

[@dweblinveltz5035]

Assuming the bootcamp is worth its salt, you're going to spend a lot more time and fumble around a lot more trying to self-pace train. Some people aren't built mentally for that, too, so they will inevitably become demoralized and fail. but sure, barring all that, it's "not necessary." K-12 school isn't necessary, too, since everything you learn there can be found in the library.

[@rudolfst3367]

@@dweblinveltz5035 Is it really a problem now? Ask chatGPT to explain anything, every single line of code if necessary. That's one thing it's actually good for. Doesn't work all the time, but a teacher could f-up too, lmao.

[@nayru8385]

very valuable video

[@JohnMcclaned]

Coding bootcamps are basically like 'hammer mastery classes.' They teach you all there is to know about hammers and how to swing them. Real programming is not about swinging hammers though, it's about building houses. There is so much more involved in building a house than using a hammer. Companies don't need people who know how to swing hammers, they need people who know how to build houses and who would use a rock on the side over road as a hammer if they needed to.

[@exapsy]

CS degree is not even close to being an approximate of a "coding bootcamp". 1. I dont like coding bootcamps 2. I dont advocate for a degree either But CS/IT is NOT going to teach you how to code. Period. There's no question about it. Computer Science and Informatics are exactly what they say they are ... the science of information and how we make rocks to make boop boop noises. Like studying computer architecture, or outdated maths of AI. Or learning calculus which you will 99% not ever need in your job unless you're something like a graphics engine developer where you might need some linear algebra. Most of what you'll learn in CS/IT has almost absolutely nothing to do with what you'll be doing at your job. So, let's say you finish your CS degree. Then what? You don't know how to code and most employers search for people, even for junior devs, that already know how to code ...... and CS degree ain't teaching you that! Coding bootcamps came to fill exactly that gap. To teach you how to code. Bootcamps are not there to replace a CS degree, they're there to fill a gap. So, people comparing CS degree to bootcamps, have no idea what they're talking about. I've been to CS college. And yet I knew nothing afterwards about how to code, but I was teaching myself as I was in the college and did my projects till I got hired. Now that I have 7 years of experience as a Software Engineer, I still see people with CS degrees searching for a job. Why? Because They don't teach you ReactJS at college. They won't teach you how to write clean code. They won't teach you how to cooperate professionally in a team. Or what is CI/CD. Or what is Docker, Kubernetes, Kafka, RabbitMQ, MongoDB, Postgresql, MariaDB, Mosquito, Redis, Memcached yada yada. They teach you nothing about any of those tools at a CS college. The CS college to there to teach you the science of information and what is Big O, the maths around it and such. It is not there to teach you how to code. It's completely different from a coding bootcamp. Which again, I don't even advocate for. I think most of them are kind of scams and promise too much.

[@doug2bitemore]

I dropped out of a bootcamp in 2019 and I ended up getting into tech as a system administrator, but man I wish I would have stuck it out.

[@jubei3219]

I almost signed up for one that would have cost 20k, so happy I had doubts, I’ll look for a career with growth that’s not about to be destroyed by ai

[@SandraWantsCoke]

What career may I ask? Thanks!

[@thepwnerbeast]

Could you make a video on your thoughts on Holberton School? They have made partnerships with educational institutions like ALX in africa so it would be very interesting to know what they do

[@raymondaloni2309]

Thanks for filling my day with anxiety and worry. 🎉

[@jflores85]

Spent most of last year applying for jobs and updating my portfolio and went for salesforce cert. No one interview. Coding bootcamps are the new technical schools, time to go.

[@ezbg]

Seems to me nobody cares about a degree or cert anymore. Indoor to get hired for a job the space you have to have already had a job doing the same thing. It’s demoralizing

[@DaehanKim]

bootcamps everywhere are popping up for instance im in the gaming industry and there are tons of 3d/gamedev bootcamps

[@rezan6971]

You have no idea how correct is that .. I'm a former teacher from a 12 month bootcamp .. They fired me over malicious feedback from bad students because they accept everyone and the government (Germany) is paying 30k for each student

[@artimus7525]

Im shocked Coding bootcamps are still a thing especially since the release of ChatGPT. I turned down coding bootcamps for a software dev apprenticeship. Sadly they weren’t able to get me a job but at the very least I got 4 classes of college credit for free so it wasn’t a complete waste of time. And yes all the jobs I saw and I’ve applied for required a bachelors degree in cs or equivalent.

[@user-pc8vn6ym7r]

I generally disagree on the requirements. I've worked steadily since the mid 90's in SWE without the 4 year, just some college credits. Once you get a few years under your belt, there have always been numerous jobs not needing it. And in relation to current conditions; just about everyone that I know that DOES have a 4+ year is ALSO looking for work. Many for quite a while now. The only thing that has ever hurt me has been missing calculus. Working on it.

[@stevendorsey4850]

Is a Coding Bootcamp or "100 Days of Code" challenge a good way to get skilled up in a chosen language to become capable of a project you have in mind? I've gone to college for coding, but am extremely rusty in some more advanced concepts of Data Structures, and none whatsoever in graphical software engineering (I've only ever done basic CLIs), which are both integrally related to a program I've thought about creating for personal use.

[@javgroman]

Eloquent JS is a classic coding book, but to me it's more about observation of the JS lang and runtime than a learn-to-code book. It's a deep dive and probably not ideal for teaching someone how to code. It's more like a reference I think.

[@cskelton]

My local college's introductory programming course only had a pass rate of 30% (taught by the program director themself), and they were perfectly fine with that. They'd rather students take it and figure out programming wasn't for them, because it does take a mindset shift to think logically like how a computer would process.

[@ThembaMcinziba]

I heard of Holbertan, they have a campus in Johannesburg South Africa

[@phillymontana]

I have a CS degree from 20 years ago. Graduated not really knowing what to do career wise. Always loved tech. A few years ago I ended up trying a boot camp. Boot camps get you going quickly. You learn how to actually do something. A CS will not. Don't go find a web dev job after graduating. Start your own thing. Boot camps enable you to do this.

[@kurtloban3664]

I think we had ~65 people in our bootcamp for the final mod. Graduated in May 2023. Only 2 of out of the ~64 got hired externally (1 or 2 were hired by the bootcamp). I just decided to restart my company and developing for that, but most went back to their normal jobs.

[@user-fw1ok4lz2j]

hey man, hope you are doing well, what do you think on learning UI design and front end using JS,TS react and some data base, Im 25 looking to get into tech but Im scare if its too late and for me and also about the market

[@sarthakbhatt5661]

Got laid off on Friday I worked as a frontend dev I am 23 btw and have a total of 6 mnths experience so you are not too late go for it. I am though switching from frontend to backend will never work as a frontend again.

[@user-fw1ok4lz2j]

thanks!!@@sarthakbhatt5661

[@seenso]

Left my job in Sept 2021 and finished my bootcamp in Feb 2022 and got interviewed/hired in Sept/Oct 2022. During the year the layoffs started 🥲 such a stressful time for junior developers but I’m sure my MIS degree helped in some sense as it’s a compsci adjacent degree. Make sure you guys are filing for unemployment!

[@hvaandres]

I still believe that good mentors and good teachers have a long way on this. Codingbootcamps will have a very hard-time. Universities will struggle as well because of the approach of teaching old courses

[@GameMiestro]

Something that you didn't really cover here is that a significant portion of coding boot camp recruits in the US are military veterans looking to get free tuition and a housing/cost of living stipend while getting technical training through the VET TEC program. If you just got back into civilian life why would you not want to sign up for a program that literally pays you thousands of dollars without counting against your GI bill benefits to do an at-home coding course and learn some useful software development skills? Having used the program after I left the Navy I can tell you that the VET TEC program is very strict about making sure you actually get good grades during the course and effectively search for a job afterwards, but if you are willing to put in the work it's an excellent use of time.

[@ethansito5321]

12:40 Actually, you can compare them because the biggest component of both bootcamps and CS degrees is that they are supposed to get you a job. If one does and one doesn't, then a shorter completion time is completely meaningless.

[@samsonabraha9536]

Brother as long as they don't regulate or creating replacement robots for any tech jobs coding never get better !!! Anyway thank you for telling the truth.

[@KevinEF]

The market is also really bad right now... I have a bachelor's, 2 years of experience and do plenty of hard leet codes, but it took me hundreds of applications to find a job that pays under the average. At least the job is easy and has plenty of benefits, but it's a really bad market. Good remote jobs are hard to get since the competition is so high.

[@samfisher8583]

Dude, can you give some advice on how to leetcode

[@aaronbruce2320]

I literally just finished paying off my ISA at App Academy yesterday. While I got a job and placed, I definitely wouldn't recommend a boot-camp for an aspiring developer as a pathway into the industry.

[@Ricocase]

Congratulations; Python or Ruby?

[@sean02345]

Anyone know if it's the same story with cybersecurity boot camps and employers not hiring them? Or is that a little different?

[@utubes720]

The MAJORITY of professional developers have NEVER touched “leetcode”. If your typical enterprise CRUD app dev making 120k was asking leetcode in an interview, it’s because the hiring team is trying to pretend they’re FAANG for their 100 internal users basic app.

[@leonchen89]

It’s fine if they are asking Easy level leetcode problems as a filter to see who is a real programmer and who is fake. But medium level and up is completely waste of people’s time.

[@DM-pg4iv]

Any good recommendations for learning data ststructures or better understanding of them

[@Brent-The-Carpenter]

I would like too know who has gone through the Odin project in a week spending 6 hours a day. I would most definitely call bs. I have been working the TOP for about four months now and have spent easily hundred plus hours. I have finished foundations and now I am in the javascript portion of the java full stack path. I have built multiple projects including a rock paper scissors game , an etch a sketch , a tic tac toe game and multiple page layouts using flex box / grid / and html. I still have hundred plus shoot maybe hundreds of hours to go till i finish it. Heres a tip if you don't like reading or your not willing to learn how to enjoy reading coding is not for you. I have read more documentation and articles in the past four months than i have read in my 26 years of life.The cool thing about reading this though is you can apply it and makes things come into reality. If you want to learn to code i suggest the odin project great place to see if you like coding and if your going to commit to it. Ps TOP starts off slow you will learn computer history and get your environment set up. once that is done then you get to learn some coding.

[@nealdooley9591]

I attended a bootcamp in 2022. My current employer was sponsoring the tuition for my whole cohort with the promise of a job from this company upon graduation. However, they hired less than they promised so most of my cohort was stuck job hunting for months after graduation. From what I experienced during the program, I would not have paid tuition for it. I started at my current position the week after graduation and I will say the bootcamp did not get the students job ready.

[@rufusmcgee4383]

Speaking as a bootcamp instructor, I gave up when customer requirements became so onerous it just wasn't practical anymore. It takes days or even weeks (at least for me) to develop decent courseware. The problem is customers don't want generalized content you can reuse anymore (because so much of it is available for free online). They want to learn some very specific tool while paying for a generalized course. Sorry, spending 3 weeks to one-off some obscure tool only to bring home a couple grand is just not worth it. Plus coach travel on today's airlines is absolute crap.

[@thecloudtechguy]

Funny, only 2 of 21 have found employment after bootcamp after 8 months. More like 1 maybe from a Simplilearn Bootcamp.

[@theselftransformedmind]

Anyone heard of per scholas? I’m considering the aws cloud reStart route.

[@tomydurazno6243]

The whole issue I see with this is that a generation thinks about coding like a "get rich quick scheme". When I started to study CS, 10 years ago, it was a promising field but none of the students that started with me had the idea that it was going to be easy, we were looking for a career, a trade. Right now I'm a senior dev making good money, but it took many many years of studying + many many years of working multiple projects. Not at all fast or easy