Things Gothic 1+2 (Still) Do Better Than Elex

[@SP-tu1xd]

Sometimes I wonder what Gothic did to me, that I still want to watch every video about it, even 20 years after release.

[@theultimatefreak666]

The true danger of letting Germans design something ;D

[@suqmadique9762]

schweig still und pflücke meine rüben

[@HCMORGI]

same here. i can't actually play most modern rpgs as they feel so lackluster in comparison. knowing how good a game can be is a curse :D

[@kairatzharkynbay1359]

@@HCMORGI yeah, totally agree with you

[@kingprone7846]

it annoys me how good this game is, there is just nothing like it an PB refuse to make another game like like it. I just want the old gothic atmosphere so badly.

[@erko948]

love your videos man. Wish more people were interested in gothic

[@Alexandru1996_]

gothic 1 i playef like 10 times and gothic 2 night of the raven i played for 15 times...i basically know almost every quest where to get it and where to complete it...i still remember some combinations from chests to get nice equipment from the very beggining in Gothic 1 I love the music, especially from Gothic 2. I also did enjoy Gothic 3 alot and i love the atmosphere from Varant. Unfortunatly my computer can't run ELEX too well so i can't say if i agree about the music...but i did watch enough videos about it and i saw someone playing it in person to know that the combat system really is very bad. I think it is worse then Risen games as well. The most strategical fights i had in Gothic 1 and 2 where you need to time the hits perfectly and move alot, otherwise you die.. Gothic 3 was too easy but with the comunity patch things got much better. Maybe the comunity can do something to repair ELEX too, cause i think it looks good and it only needs some polishing. Looking forward to ELEX 2, maybe i will have a decent computer by then :)

[@jimjohnson6944]

Maybe it's just me, but I literally never get tired of hearing you talk about Gothic 1 and 2, and I've never even played either game, lmao

[@danielnetz5173]

There will never again be a game like those two. I'm glad that you summed up their features so well. It's unlikely but I hope one of the current devs at PB will watch this and maybe we will see at least some of them return in future games. Edit: After watching to the end I want to add one maybe minor thing - the melee weapon design in the original Gothic games was so infinitely better than anything in G3/Risen/Elex. At least the swords mostly were inspired by real historical weapons and not generic fantasy trash.

[@WetterZuLaub]

This analysis is so much on point .

[@parttimehero8640]

An addition to the immersive design was stitting to one place. In Gothic 3, Risen 3 and Elex there are so many diffenet bioms that dont make sense. A hot barren desert bordering a moderate wood to the south and close to a artic waste iin the north -.-" In addition these areas are separated from one an other like in a mmorpg. And YES ! YES ! the factions are so much better in Gothic 2, in Risen 3 and Elex every Faction is simply a reskin of the abilities in addition to 2-3 unique abilities :.(

[@boorno1406]

To be precise, Piranha Bytes have been making RPGs for over 20 years, since Gothic's development first began back in 1998. I'd like to note my favourite detail about Elex, but it may be a bit of a spoiler, so if you haven't finished the game yet - here's your warning. I absolutely love the fact that, at the end of the game, you can decide to rejoin the Hybrid and Albs. First of all, I think it's the logical choice assuming our objective is preservation of humanity, so it's great that the game lets you choose logically. The alternative options are basically uneducated and misinformed lunatics, who think they can save the world with the power of friendship and love. Second, it just goes to show how open the game really is. Sure, some choices don't really matter and others are barely noticeable, but what other game lets you screw over both your companions and allies, and join the main antagonist? A lot can be said about Elex's problems, but I'd like to see more video games follow this one example.

[@RebornGalaxy]

elex such underrated masterpiece imo

[@foulXD]

after i watched the video i now know EXACTLY why i dropped it after 10h. PB doesnt know how to make good games anymore :(

[@thekingtserriednich9510]

Gothic 1+2 still better then most RPG these days

[@MaliglutOfAzura]

Me too, Gothic 1+2 are just the best RPG game for me until today. Maybe there are not as much "content" like in Skyrim or The Witcher but it's quality is the best of

[@weilzudope]

i wish we had a mod that just changed the combat (its so atrocious) and maybe upped the graphics to todays standard

[@fatihulutas9667]

As a RPG Witcher series and dark souls comes to my mind

[@matejbosela9093]

The only true RPGs that have a lot of immersion - The Witcher series (hardest difficulties need less HUD, even though I like the maps with GPS), Pathfinder:Kingmaker/Tyranny(my fav even though devs nerfed all the solo builds, PepeHands) /D:OS1 and 2 and POE (even though they are cRPGs) , DS1/Demon's Souls. Other than that? Nothing really atmospheric and immersive. Edit: Gothic 1 was imo better than Gothic 2, dont hate me but I like smaller and semi-open world games (same goes for W3 vs W2 vs W1 where imo W1 and W2 are better than W3 in terms of immersion and atmosphere).

[@fatihulutas9667]

Matej Bošeľa As someone played both gothic games ı agree that some aspects og the first gothic is greater than most rpgs that come up in recent years.Only down side is combat.Wish piranhabytes figured how to make a great combat mechnics their world building is not bad.

[@TheChodex]

I played Gothic 1 & 2 for the first time this year during an epidemic and oh boy these 2 games are beyond anything I've played in the last 20 years, and if I had to say what I liked most in it is immersion and perfect map size with the memorable world! EDIT: Omg I didn't realize until you said it, but Gothic is literally the only game where NPC helps me out so much that I literally want to help them back! Especially true in Gothic 2: NoTR where Diego literally got me 3 levels higher in Valley of the Mines. I would taunt orcs and he would kill them, I literally loved this guy after this, same with Larus in the stone golems quest!

[@nopenope1]

ha I'm old, I'm played G1 and G2 when they were released or short after ^^ and I'm still missing games like these two. I guess Witcher 3 is often named as similar immersive but I've never played it. Last one was Witcher 2. Last time I've played one of the two games was 10+ years ago, so there is nostalgia but still. Example: G1, there was a cave on a hill/mountan or behind a waterfall there was a cave with goblins. Small things, but what he said in the video - this one or another about Gothic 1+2, the map, no the Gothic World is nearly perfect size, interesting and so fine done, you can orientate on land marks and find things which can help a lot. Like in G2, a sword on the coast, without the add-on, you can use it very early and it does great damage or a hidden scroll which allowes you to go in an area which would be a bit harder/a few levels later possible. And I totally agree with the NPC-Friends! in Gothic 1+2, really a shame that studio lost that touch.

[@CreamyClaws]

Yeah it's a shame what they did with Diego in the Gothic remake

[@nopenope1]

@@CreamyClaws yeah, I can't imagine it to be not a soulless game. It has the name but no clue if it will be that bad, but Ghostbusters 2016 also has "Ghostbusters" in it's name... ;)

[@nevermind5733]

Lobarts Wife, giving you the stew after your fieldwork in the beginning and countless other things. I saw somewhere a vid after the demo to the possible remake and the guy explained great for me an important part of the feeling of the world. Its a harsh world yes, but the people there have a motivation, trying to make a life in this harsh world, a lot are rough but still good people. Of course there are a lot of a s s holes too, but even they have very human reasons for their actions even if you dont like them. Its just so incredible..near to life for a fantasy game. Even the political situation in Khorinis between the city and Onar and the mercenaries fits perfectly in the world. I dont know why, but they were never able to replicate this after Gothic 2.

[@taka2517]

Larus hahhahah, I really had to think about who is Larus but I got you

[@DallyLama93]

Actually the hero in Gothic has a name, but people are just rude and never let him introduce himself.

[@ZigealFaust]

@@Reality-Distortion Main char is a Tribal confirmed?

[@Kacpa2]

He actually introduces hinself. His name is "Kneuw Heer" 😅

[@werbearjack]

One thing the games seem to have lost is using verticality to their advantage. The plateau around Bengar's farm feels really secluded - but it's right next to the lake by the entrance to Onar's land, just way higher up. To achieve a similar secluded feel Elex uses vast swathes of empty wasteland - and if it isn't empty it has some easily skippable fights on it. Multiple times while playing Gothic, Gothic II and sometimes even Risen I would stop and wonder that two places that seem really far appart are actually right next to each other. Paths are winding and narrow, full of dangerous enemies which are valuable to fight because XP is finite. Here the cumbersome map system might have really helped the games. Because maps are expensive, not overly detailed, slow to look at and put away and have no zoom function you don't use them constantly like in many modern games. Directions are also given for people walking on foot instead of someone looking at a map. So I find myself only using a map when I am really lost - which means it's harder to notice how close everything is together. The world evolving from chapter to chapter also helps with how huge the smaller world feels; if a small piece of road has several memorable encounters on it in different chapters it just feels bigger to me. Elex's desert meanwhile is ok to explore for exploration's sake but outside of three, maybe four hotspots involved in quests (including the outlaw city) there is nothing memorable in that third of the map.

[@ZigealFaust]

I mean, the most tense parts of ELEX take place in "ruins" imo where using your JP can be just as hindering as helpful. I like feeling like a badass Boba Fett in the open but also appreciate getting my ass handed to me like Boba Fett indoors, also.

[@nosdregamon]

I haven''t played Elex yet, but one thing that still stood out of my Gothic experience, was that most humans didn't try to kill you. Sure, they'd knock you out and steal you blank, but to the convicts in the colony a human live had value. Also that you killing other humans was more of a choice (often with consequence) and less an random byproduct of melee. Haven't noticed such a thing in a game in years.

[@SknCommonLisper]

Agreed, only other games where killing is a 'choice' I can think of, is Way of the Samurai 3\4. Where you can use the blunt weapon to do non-lethal, which has no barring on anything but your end-score \ personal choice, outside of a few main characters, and Expedition: Viking. Where turning of 'lethal' disables criticals, but ensures everyone you defeat survive, some quests this is important ,but it's fluff most of the time.

[@jasonfenton8250]

It also means that the player can genuinely lose fights and not have to reload. Getting stronger and coming back to take your stuff back from the guy who robbed you is awesome. Gothic is the only game I can think of that does this outside of scripted "supposed to lose" fights. Gothic does it all through genuine gameplay.

[@zuiop9993]

I've always thought that smaller open worlds are better. Just really focus on that area and make it really stand out. I haven't played Gothic 1 in years but I could still describe in detail how you get from the old camp to the swamp camp and could do the same for many other locations (and for G2). Yeah, I've played through the game like six times. But I doubt I could do the same for any other game even if I would play it as much. I always find it really petty how people spend so much time trashing the fighting system - that is btw sooo much better than many AAA games today (Skyrims combat is worse) - not even realising how out of place a more action oriented system would feel. I think games are best if they focus on what they are good at and make the other parts serviceable, so the both the developer and the Player get to focus on the good stuff. Many people seem to think that more features equals a better game. There is no other reason I can come up with to explain why people like the Elder Scrolls. I like the newer PB games too, I haven't played Elex yet, but I enjoyed the Risen series. Yes, they are worse than Gothic, but unlike other fans of Gothic I do feel you should try to appreciate every title for what they do well and don't expect it too be just like Gothic. I don't necessarily think that they should go back to making games like Gothic to be honest. But there is something missing in their newer titles and it feels to me that there is a lack of a coherent vision. While the RPG Genre is getting more prominent these days, there is still no game that provides an experience similar to these games. I think that is sad. That there was a game so great that accomplished so much with all the technical limitations, and for some reason it never got the regognition it deserved and even though it became a cult classic, nobody really tried to make something like that again. If a game of a comparative quality but modern grafics got released today on steam it would be a worldwide success and would propably sell Millions of copies. But nobody is even trying to do so.

[@capcom23]

Agree. Risen 1 wasn't the biggest either... the map was quite easily explored fully. And there was enough story in it to keep the gamer happy. I do wish though.. they had DLC added and added one little island that you can reach right next to the harbor for some more quests and add a cave with some other monsters. It could've been a bit better.

[@zuiop9993]

@@capcom23 As I've said I enjoyed the Risen series and Risen 1 was by far the best one. I do think that from a world design perspective it propably comes closer to gothic than any other game (if you actually know a game that comes closer pleeeeeease tell me). But I had a lot of problems with the story of Risen, it just didn't feel very believable to me. Everyone is different regarding how far they are able to suspend their disbelieve, so I think there are many people who would disagree. For me the whole thing about these ruins coming out of the ground was just ridiculous. Were they there the whole time or did they just magically come into existence? How did the enemies get into these ruins? Did they come from the Volcano or were they there when it rose from the ground? There isn't really a need for those ruins for the story to make sense it's just a stupid gimmick. The world does look really great though. Exploring the Island was really fun, but it never felt as good as it could be. I can't really say why. To me many things felt artificial that just felt right in Gothic. At times everything was awesome but there were too many moments were things just didn't feel grounded enough. I don't want to leave the impression I didn't like Risen. I played it three times and I will propably do it again. But it doesn't evoke the same emotions Gothic did. I really don't think Risen should be longer. The ending is already way too long and doesn't provide anything interesting in the last few hours imho. But if there was a dlc that was like Night of the Raven (even though I don't really like NotR) with a more self contained story line or a standalone DLC that uses all the assets but is a seperate short game, that would be great. Expanding the existing story doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

[@glikorgo]

@@zuiop9993 Wasnt the ruins rising up connected with the lizardmen. Their old empire or something like that. And those lizardmen were the servants of titans if i remember correctly. So when titans rose up, so did the lizards and the remnants of their empire. They lived secretly in the volcano but lived all over the island thousands of years ago. And didnt like monsters come out of those ruins, so humans were not allowed to wander around the island. Or was it monsters looking for shelter in the smaller ruins. And the big ruins were hiding titan armor pieces with lizardmen protecting those pieces and so on. I dont remember it well, but i dont remember it being some gimmick.

[@zuiop9993]

@@glikorgo Yes, I believe what you said is correct, but you could have the lizardmen from the volcano and other mosters walking around making the island unsafe without these ruins. Or have them, but say that they have always been there and the lizzards and other monsters are using them as hiding spots or whatever. I just couldn't possibly believe that they just rose from the ground. Especially since the surroundings of these ruins didn't really look like it should. If they came from the ground we should see evidence of that. Like displaced earth and rocks. I can understand if you think I am nitpicking, but for me this shattered the believability of the world. And like I have said, there is no real need for something like that to make the story work. Maybe that doesn't necessarily make it a gimmick... My english isn't so good it was the first word I was thinking when describing them.

[@Bellathor]

Great comment my man. " I haven't played Gothic 1 in years but I could still describe in detail how you get from the old camp to the swamp camp and could do the same for many other locations (and for G2)." - exactly. Elex was okay, but it lacked something. The world was too big, the factions felt like you were picking the least terrible option (and not in a good way). The whole I have emotions, but not really, but yeah I have some, but not really, it just felt weird. Everyone recognizing Jax and what not. No upgraded attack animations...Risen 1 was great, Risen 3 wasn't as good but I really enjoyed it, and Risen 2 I only finished once I played Risen 3 and decided to try Risen 2 againt after dropping it years ago due to the terrible combat and whatnot. I'd prolly rank the games from best to worst: Gothic 2, Gothic 1, Risen 1, Risen 3, Elex, Gothic 3 (has one of my favorite soundtracks ever), Risen 2.

[@alessandrocossu1466]

Games nowdays are becoming dopamine dispenser, made with very little effort and attention.

[@PinePizza]

well... they are dopamine dispensers but gothic 1 and 2 did it in a genious way. The dopamine rush came slowly and persisted throughout the whole game and you really felt the impact of it becoming stronger the more you play.. Elex is not bad but it kinda takes a while to get into, it's somewhat gothic 3'ish

[@pasullica]

...also dumbed down with wall hack vision, quest marks, cover mechanics and constant helpers telling you what and how to do it. You can't just find out things by yourself. New games are insulting gamers intelligence .

[@ZigealFaust]

I went on a rant the other day after beating RE8 blind on Hardcore mode, looking at reviews and then seeing people bitch the game was too hard. My roomie was just calmly like "Dude, companies realized people like WINNING, so they started making games easier to fuel that urge. No one actually wants a challenge anymore, they want to watch someone else deal with the challenge online." I was so heartbroken cuz what they said was so true.

[@AFCAWorldBodybuildingArchive]

Not to forget that in Gothic 1 you could actually visit an InExtremo concert with their music playing. Btw song: Herr Mannelig.

[@TheMpamMpam]

It seems that a lot of things that made gothic 1 and 2 such great games were not actually rational decisions but random things that clicked in place. That would explain why the creators cannot replicate the basics.

[@xenon333]

Yeah. Kinda like the interconnectivity of the world of the first Dark Souls. Everyone thought that it was intentional and hoped for the same thing in the 2nd and the 3rd games, but it never happened.

[@TheMpamMpam]

@@xenon333 it happens more often than people think, with writing, painting, movies everything... People explain things that the creator didn't even know are there...

[@TheHarkonnenScum]

Most of the original creators aren't part of the Piranha Bytes dev team anymore.

[@TheMpamMpam]

@@TheHarkonnenScum true but for people that make the remake for example, some of these things should be obvious..But they are not!

[@TheMpamMpam]

@GigaX in any case it was a moment of genius, especially for the time. They r my favorite games. Still play them

[@freiheitstattzwang8218]

Your English is very clear, I'm not native and can understand you perfectly

[@huuhuu907]

In my opinion the worst part about the newer games is the gps system on your map. In gothic you actually have to listen to the NPCs, otherwise you dont know where to go. And nothing feels better then finding the Quest on your own, exploring the world while you looking for your quest.

[@Heliumoxid43]

The point is: you CAN LISTEN to the way descriptions of the NPCs, because they do describe it to you. Something lacking in nearly all modern games.

[@Kevin5279]

Another reason why this is so in many modern RPGs is the sheer size of the maps in modern games. Ever since the first two Gothic games released, RPGs have just gotten bigger and bigger when it comes to map size. Very few RPGs filled their play area with dense and meaningful content just like the first two Gothics did, so the larger map size actually feels like a diversion to cover up lacking immersion and design elements. The most obvious side effect will be icon filled GPS looking maps.

[@ZigealFaust]

I legit don't know what you mean as I'm like 10 hours in ELEX and most of the quests have been "I don't know where they went, maybe ask someone who worked with them." being given NO markers and having to deduce who works with them based on clothing alone. Heck one mission I got wasnt even givin to me, I just found a note with a time and description of a place on it was like "OH YEAH, I REMEMBER THAT AREA" and then went back to wait for the bastard who caused my mark to OD on shite chems. Yeah, sometimes there are markers for certain things/quests but that makes sense contex wise.

[@bizznick444joe7]

There was parts in Gothic 2 where if you weren't paying attention you could get screwed over later on. For example certain NPCs will give you instructions on how to get into Khorinis after you finish a task for them. But even at the gate of Khorinis the guard will ask you questions, if you weren't listening to others before you can make the incorrect mistake of choosing dialogue that will not let the guard letting you through. You can of course pay the hefty fine of course. Mind you there's about 7 ways to get into Gothic 2, some not even advised yet the game recognizes you did them with NPCs like Lares giving you extra XP for figuring out how to get in another way. In Gothic 1 if you didn't inquire further with Diego on matters of the Old Camp, he will feel you weren't interested in joining and simply leave you there telling you that if you're not interested that's fine. But that also means at the Old Camp gate when you arrive the guard will demand you pay 10 ore to get in. If you talked further with Diego you will gain his permission to enter the Old Camp and the guard will not tell you to pay to come in. BUT there's also a very interesting part of the Old Camp, the back entrance your character will lie to get in and they won't make you pay. So you can see there's so many ways to solve a problem in the game that makes it look like it was your adventure and your character.

[@GVSHvids]

if they reuse most of the assest of elex for elex 2 they can focus a lot more on the details

[@TheMicheilsGrey]

They don't have resources to focus on the details that's why their games having not much interest for most people.

[@tehpeasant]

@@TheMicheilsGrey That's because they make the games too big. Imagine putting the same amount of work that they did for the world of Elex and use it to create a world in the size of Gothic 1...

[@foulXD]

@@tehpeasant yea, the world in elex 1 is far too big. its much better, in most cases, to make a more compact and more detailed world than some generic open world ala far cry and assassins creed. nier automata did it right, a compact world which actually CAN tell a story and doesnt feel like some sandbox to play in which utterly would destroy my immersion. i had to drop elex after 10h as the world and the general feel of the game was an absolute desaster.

[@tehpeasant]

@@foulXD I finished it eventually but it was a grind and I definitely don't want to do it again. Same with Gothic 3 btw

[@modernmeat23]

having watched the full video now, I can definitely say you made a lot of great points here. The one that really really hit home for me was the part where you mentioned that you can go through an elimination process when it comes to where to go next, this was especially true for gothic 2 imo.

[@TheNocturnalRambler]

I love how Gothic's world design and quest design are both open enough to leave things up to you to figure out on your own, but with enough organized structure in the world to help facilitate independent exploration. In Gothic your objectives are usually in pretty specific, well-defined areas that you can get to on your own through basic instructions and sign posts, and then it just comes down to exploring that area and finding what you need to do. When someone tells you to search "the woods behind Sekob's farm," or the "high plains near the pass," for instance, it's easy to figure out where those areas are and when you're starting to leave those areas, so you have a strong focal point to guide exploration -- you're not just aimlessly wandering around hoping to stumble into the objective. In contrast, a lot of open world games are just too big and open that trying to find things on your own ends up feeling like a wild goose chase without the aid of crutches like quest markers. Skyrim's radiant quest design, for instance, makes it literally impossible to find things on your own because there's absolutely no in-game description of where the objective is, and they often send you way off into distant territories that all blend together, or feel like random instances in the huge open world. All of those random caves and fortresses are practically interchangeable in the world so there's no way to distinguish one from another, or even the surrounding environment, when exploring the overworld. Elex falls somewhere between the two, but leans a little more closely to Skyrim than I'd like. There are some side quests, for instance, that you can solve without those markers -- Born's quest in Goliet to retrieve rare healing plants from the lake above Goliet, for instance, takes place in a well-defined area that you can actually navigate to on your own just by looking at the map -- but then the quest to find rare healing plants for Nasty is the exact opposite where there's absolutely no way to figure that out on your own, short of meticulously combing every square foot of the map. Elex's world has a ton of rewarding things to discover and lots of interesting areas to explore, but overall it doesn't have the same focused direction and organized structure of Gothic and Gothic 2.

[@modernmeat23]

You can still have big open worlds and not have quest markers. In Morrowind, for instance, which is larger than G2's main world and G1, when you're sent to Arkngthand, you're being given clear instructions on how to get there in your journal. I don't know, it just feels very rewarding after wondering for a bit, something clicks in and you're all like "ah yea, this is the place". I'm not sure if there are many current "mainstream-ish" games that do that though.

[@anadisaikia1828]

Except, in morrowind this figurig things out part is a lot more sandboxy and lot less integrated into the game world and hence doesnt feel particularly interedting.

[@nopenope1]

@@modernmeat23 haha I've got a Morrowind version with a grafics card after, one year after I've already played G1. Game was only in English, back then my English was not great, it was sometimes hard to follow and internet was 56k (28k but later it got 56k ^^) After G1, the world of Morrowind was a bit stale to me, that and the language barrier. To get to the point, I should find a place and I never found it, never ended the game ^^ This is 15+ years ago, was it a cave only visible at moon light or something like that? ^^

[@modernmeat23]

@@nopenope1 hehe, Arkngthand was really early on after a few quests in Balmora and around Balmora

[@MaxLohMusic]

Elex has shit music which sounds scarily similar to the music I wrote when I was 15. Lots of harmony decisions that have absolutely no sense or reason and are just there out of randomness or ignorance rather than intention. I'm thinking specifically of a particular in-town ambient piece where some B naturals appear out of nowhere and sound like a cat was noodling around on the keyboard. It is the ONLY gothic-like game I have ever played which got better after I turned OFF the music.

[@MaxLohMusic]

@Infamous XD Is that supposed to absolve him of that decision? I haven't even had a "first time" writing music for a famous video game yet, and I'd still do a better job than that. And I'm sure I'm not the only one

[@ddr3629]

An old ZenGin Engine(Gothic1,2) was better than new Genome Engine(Gothic3, Ryzen, Elex) in my opinion. If you skilled enough you can climb everywhere, it gives feeling of absolute freedom. That's why to use unreal engine for gothic remake is a bad idea.

[@tiborbalogh9104]

to add to your 3th. point: if the all factions are cool, you just choose what color is more to your liking (AKA: Mass E. 3) in elex they all are garbage in some way, but you have to choose one that is seems the most appealing to your way of thinking. Neither is better to the other, maybe just different but i prefer a flawed faction with dept then flat out good guys.

[@kingprone7846]

gothics atmosphere and fantastic progression/difficulty is still unmatched.

[@ever7673]

Could someone make PB watch this?^^

[@kooroshrostami27]

maybe if we all comment on their social media they will lol

[@oraora8214]

I wish they would just re-rerelease Gothic 1 and 2 with bugfixes, so that it runs on modern platforms flawlessly. I don't even mind them not updating those game in any other way.

[@mrgreed711]

Just play gothic mods ? There are tons of them Bugfixes, visual updates and much more

[@oraora8214]

@@mrgreed711 I have tried 2 of them and the default game. Game still crashes at various places on my system.

[@predattak]

Yeah ... the random stuttering especially in G2 is annoying. The DX 7 is shit by now and the DX 11 mod is buggy as hell ..sadly :(

[@Alexandru1996_]

i have even seen mods to run gothic 1 and 2 in directX 11, let me tell you how good it looks with high quality textures and with so much grass on the ground

[@predattak]

@@Alexandru1996_ here kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqbXaYypadmkbLs the dx 11 client is in the video description. Gothic 2 has one also. In fact there are 2 different dx 11 clients for both games.

[@ΠαζαρακιαΣιτι]

i first played gothic 1 when i was 10-11 years old. CANT DESCRIBE THE FEELING. Also i played 2 and 3 and all of the are beyond awsomness

[@christophfaistauer]

I love the original Gothic Games so much. I wish for developers to go back to this game design. Even the simple and 'bad' fighting System contributes to the RPG side of the Game, because it makes your stats more important than your abilities as a Player, something i welcome very much because it makes skillpoints and skaling truly matter.

[@oneboy7278]

I can't fully agree with that statement. From my experience I can tell that Gothics Combat System is actually extremly skill-based. However, that fact doesn't fully shine through because it's somewhat clunky.

[@xyzzy-dv6te]

Gothic combat system is way more skill than stat-based, if you're good enough you can win 1v1 with almost any enemy on level 0 with a heavy branch

[@ZigealFaust]

@@xyzzy-dv6te This still checks out in Elex to a degree. I was confused at people bitching about combat then realized it's just a bunch of Souls-Simps are are used to insane amounts of invincibility frames on their chars not being used to taking damage if you roll INTO an attack.

[@kooroshrostami27]

If you know the enemy attack animations you can actually make skill and quick reactions count a lot. I always kill the trolls at low level by just moving behind them and spamming attack, never letting them face me. Just need a lot of patience. Also humanoid enemies and everything that can be blocked can be defeated 1vs1 with a dagger or walking stick, because there aren't more than a handful of attack patterns, so you can block and hit with almost 100% success rate after a couple of playthroughs.

[@Morgannin]

Today I learned that at some point, KZbin reintroduced length limitations on comments, hooray. Really should have made a video response to this, but I've already got this typed out here so hey. 1. Frankly part of the reason for the unimmersive tutorial popups is gonna be to blame on folks such as a certain angry reviewer who just can't get the hint with mechanical subtlety and need things explained to them matter-of-factly or else they'll think the mechanics are just broken. I think in terms of the size of the world in Elex, I'm not offended that quest markers exist. Generally a character will give you the directions you need, and the objective trackers will be there to fall back on if you struggle. But it does come at odds with the quests in which specific directions are deliberately not given so that you find it while exploring, but the markers will point you right to it on the map. This again is optional - just never turn on the markers - but it's a bit difficult to say that since generally, once a crutch like that is provided, we as players tend to use it even when it diminishes our experience. 2. A recent reply from Jenny on World of Elex states that they aren't making the world any bigger in the next game. Her reply gives me iffy impressions in regards to whether they made a new world or are using the same one. 3. Elex's factions are the weakest they've made mostly because it seemed like they came up with themes for their behavior and philosophies, but put less thought into their history and relationships. Each one felt disconnected from each other and the rest of the world, and were in conflict solely for the sake of conflict. Every faction in Gothic 1 and 2 and Risen had their reasons to be there, while Elex felt like they came up with the factions and made the world accommodate them. In terms of the thematic pro's and con's, I really don't think the game needs to have the pro's weighted higher. It seems like you dislike the idea that each faction is flawed in their own right, in terms of their laws and philosophies, but I think that could make them more compelling - it's just written poorly in this game. Picking a group to align with in an apocalypse wouldn't believably be an easy choice for anybody with a moral compass - it stands to reason that the most powerful groups have done something pretty terrible to gain that position. This would present a moral gray area for a role-player to decide which group aligns more to their outlook. The problem is, Berserker and Cleric philosophy isn't different enough to make a compelling moral choice. They both believe themselves to have the right ideas to lead the world out of the apocalyptic dark age, but either one has a tendency to quash dissent toward their ideals in a pretty brutal fashion - Berserkers with exile and dangerous work details that tend to get them killed, and Clerics with mind control therapy. Both of them pretty much occupy the same gray area and only differ in their outlook on Elex and technology. Meanwhile the Outlaws are just the obvious assholes in it for themselves, and are essentially just the degenerate cesspit for the people who want the selfish prick role-play. 4. It's obvious that Jax having a backstory was meant to add drama to the story. The Elex withdrawal is meant to provide that same "blank slate" ideal in the sense that he wakes up after an unintentional detox and now has the ability to think for himself, so as a role-player you can still decide how you want him to act. But the drama aspect was just massively let down by the story itself, making it feel like a detraction from the role-playing experience as a whole. Additionally, it's got the really annoying trope where the character knows so much more than the game lets YOU know, so quite often you're acting at odds from how you would if you knew the details of his history from the get-go. The flashbacks are also a really uncomfortable injection of exposition in the laziest and most out-of-place fashion possible. 5. The chapter system in Elex feels completely arbitrary, like it's just there to try and assuage the Gothic fans who lament how chapters weren't used in some of their games. If they excluded the chapter splash screens entirely, it wouldn't feel any different. All that really happens is some companion quests are delayed until later chapters, which already feels arbitrary, but can also just be tied into main story progression and exclude the chapter system entirely, since it's functionally the same. 6. I've actually given PB credit for not relying so heavily on dungeons the way most western RPG's tend to. I don't miss them in the games that don't have them, but it does feel like their major conflict locations are let down by a lack of much to see. The Converters, for example, amount to 3 separate platforms with a bit of loot, usually one hacking minigame, and a few generic enemies. The final area couldn't even be called a dungeon since there's no combat there if you don't want to start it. Fortifications or underground bunkers would make more sense as a "dungeon" analog in a sci-fi setting, but those tend to get very same-y in terms of design since such structures are usually a few chambers and hallways. The kinds of dungeons you see in fantasy RPG's wouldn't make a whole lot of sense here, so I'd prefer they focus more on diverse overworld locations with more verticality to them. A handful of dungeon-like locations, such as mining facilities and military R&D factories, would be interesting, but overuse of them would just feel like bloat. Compare this to Risen, where the entire final chapter took place underground, and the puzzles amounted to finding switches. I enjoyed the Risen dungeons for what they were, but it's too easy for them to end up bloating the end game with them. 7. Animations are sort of a quality of life thing. Since they effectively have six different weapon types (sword, axe, bludgeon, all in 1-and-2 handed varieties), that's already six different weapon animations. I'm not surprised this hasn't been repeated, but having skills provide tangible improvements to things such as swing speed, dodge speed, parry windows, and additional abilities to use would make progression feel worthwhile, and add that dynamic sense of improvement. I know that locking out too many skills alienates new players, since Risen 2 was borderline unplayable until you unlocked both parry and riposte, but this can be used as a world progression mechanic as well, since you don't need those skills to face early-game enemies, but tougher enemies gating later areas will require you to develop them. Unfortunately this brings up another issue with the typical gamer, who in my experience don't do well learning new mechanics long after the game has started.

[@Morgannin]

Part 2: 8. Ultimately I think Gothic 1 and Elex both had one thing in common that I miss in the other games, which is the fact that if you were too weak, you couldn't even harm tougher enemies. Gothic 2 did away with this by having a minimum damage you could inflict, meaning once you mastered the game mechanics, you were theoretically unstoppable and the concept of gating areas with tougher enemies was no longer as valid. I still tend to follow the same progression routes regardless because taking down orcs one-by-one doing only 5 damage a hit was simply exhausting, but I suppose this is also mitigated by having groups of enemies, such as orcs, that all react with each other and still function to prevent you from getting places you shouldn't be. The lack of feedback from increasing skills definitely detracts from this experience though. I often felt disinterested in leveling up just because it barely mattered, and took ages to get the attributes needed to equip new weapons. Once you did, though, the damage escalation could be pretty dramatic, and progression felt more like it happened in steps rather than in a curve. Strangely, stats did have an effect on damage at some point - as evidenced by the currently false indication on the character screen saying so - but they patched it out of the game. They never really gave a solid answer why. 9. Enemy variety is my biggest gripe in this game. There are like seven monster types and they are just reskinned for each area. You got the Troll type (Forest troll, Ice troll, Cyclops, El Collosaro, etc.); Then there's like a semi-troll type (Rotbeast, Patriarch, etc); there's the Shadowbeast type (Chimera, Nightshade, etc); Raptor type (Raptor, Skex, Desert Devil, etc). Dog type (Jackal, Spine Hound, Crystal Rat); Bug type (Ripper, Spider, Locust); and then Bird type (Scavenger, Ice Bill, etc). In each category they behave exactly the same and seldom even vary much in terms of damage or hit points. 10. Balancing was the key weakness of spells in Gothic 1 and 2. Many of them were highly ineffective compared to others in the same circle or lower, and chargeable spells took so long and so much mana as to be almost equivalent to just spamming 3-4 of the lower spell in the same amount of time. On top of that, auxiliary effects such as stunning enemies with Ball Lightning were pretty inconsistent, and the hidden effects such as vulnerabilities of stone creatures and ice creatures, were hard to quantify in a normal playthrough. I even did a stream where I spawned in numerous creatures to try spells against them and felt none the wiser for it. You mention spells as a "progression" in Gothic II which I think is a bit misleading, since you don't have to learn the simple spells to unlock better ones - you just skip those until you reach the higher circles, which is what I generally do for reasons stated above. Ultimately I would be most interested in a magic system that allowed/encouraged spell combinations or upgrading basic spells to have new effects. I like the idea of Risen 3 having a single spell with a ranged and melee option, but I would like more diversity than that. Lightning bolt, for example, can become a chain lightning to strike multiple foes, or a bolt from the sky to hit targets that don't have line of sight, or can be charged to use as a stun effect against enemies (maybe the stun ends prematurely on the next hit, so you use it strategically to get some breathing room, for example). We could spitball these ideas all day, but unfortunately Piranha Bytes hasn't shown a great deal of creativity with this lately. Your breakdown of the faction-specific abilities in Elex show the stark contrast in the different fields of character progression in that game. Most abilities have similar stat requirements, so once you've leveled up a bit you can take just about any path with it, but getting new weapons feels like a monumental effort to get the stats for them, made worse by the fact that enhancing the weapons causes their requirements to jump another mile high. 11. The introduction of permanent party members in Risen 2 is a bit of a baffling addition for Piranha Bytes, and unfortunately serves to cheapen the exploration and progression significantly. It was novel enough in Risen 2 and 3 when the characters made remarks in dialogues with other NPC's and as you explored the world, but that's been reduced so substantially in Elex that I don't even think Jax ever responded in these occasions. So other than that, the companions exist to be meat shields, or just a momentary distraction before they get flattened into the dirt. Altogether it would be more compelling to return to the concept of NPC's joining your party for specific quests or events, like the companions in Gothic 1 helping you explore the focus sites. Maybe introduce mercenary type NPC's that can follow your orders on any outing of your choosing, giving players an option to challenge themselves by going solo or spending some cash to make the journey easier. 12. The Albs not feeling like a persistent threat has a lot to do with the consequence of a true open world game. It's almost impossible for a free-roaming sandbox game to give you the sense that disaster is imminent, because the world can't move on without you or else you don't feel like you have any freedom after all. This is frankly why Gothic II had the best story and world progression overall - you got to new areas as the plot developed, and returning to old areas after each story milestone felt significantly different, particularly in the sense that the threat had grown - what with orcs and Seekers now crawling all over the once fairly hospitable countryside of Khorinis, and their horde encroaching heavily on the siege circle each time you returned to the valley. In contrast, the Albs squatted at their converters or in predetermined camps and nothing ever changed. Even between the arbitrary chapters, I don't recall any new spawns or events involving the Albs, except when the story determined some would show up for a quest. It's funny how TES IV: Oblivion kind of set the tone for the modern open world RPG, and even that did a better job than most games nowadays. As the story progressed, the number of Oblivion gates and dangerous enemies spawning throughout the world actually made it feel like the threat was growing. It only suffered for the fact that each gate just meant another among dozens of copy-paste dungeons, so it can be done better with more conventional encounters or greater enemy diversity. 13. Seems odd to make such a specific theme a point of contention, since the Penal Colony only really existed in Gothic 1, and it was the entire world. Elex is far bigger and broader than that, and I don't think the Valley of the Damned was meant to be an oblique reference to it. It may have inspired it, but it's not like it was surrounded by a magic barrier or populated by different groups and different ideals - you just had the typical bandits (reavers) and some occasional stir-crazy berserkers, but most of the non-hostile NPC's you encountered there were terrified exiles just trying to survive and desperate to return, and most of the territory was dominated by beasts and littered with corpses. It is another case where the open world aspect allows you to come here a lot later without feeling like anything is much of a threat, whereas I attempted a foray into the Valley at an early level and felt genuinely intimidated by everything I encountered. It was a sadly underutilized area, since it actually had enough atmosphere to give me chills, but not enough happened there. Still, I wouldn't think to compare it to the Penal Colony when the game was intended to cover a much broader and more diverse world than that. 14. The music, unfortunately, is a sad truth, that we just can't expect that anymore. Kai Rosenkranz was a genius when it came to conveying the mood of a given area and could strike the perfect balance of melody and low-fi ambiance (at least when you didn't give him an outrageous budget and a symphony orchestra to work with); and Risen 2-3 were maybe not as unique and deliberate as all that, but at least they came from professional composers who understood the themes and their respective locations where they'd be heard. Elex feels like another casualty of Bjorn Pankratz's vanity projects, since he composed it all himself and surely feels quite proud of it, despite not having a single memorable melody or ever sounding like the mood of the music invoked anything other than "somber sci-fi stuff." Maybe being a project manager and therefore creative director didn't really give him the time he needed to focus on a single discipline like this, but that's his fault for taking it on. Nobody on earth has ever said Piranha Bytes is bloated in manpower, so I think they could stand to hire an in-house composer, or at least contract one on a project-to-project basis. It wouldn't likely be as good as a KaiRo specialty, but it's better than what we got.

[@LukasChrapek]

I agree with your point. Gothic 1 and 2 are for me one of the best RPG I ever played. I even don't know how many times I beat these games. What a memories. And Gothic 2 + Night of the Ravens, hands down mine favorite from all Gothic games. I agree that these games are unique thanks to map size and perfect design and gating. I never feel that map is small for me, because everywhere on map was something interesting but usually hide behind some challenge. Like in Gothic 2, near Black Troll is cave where is Skeleton Knight to strong for you when you get there for first time, but if you can get Speed Potion, you can run to cave, take pretty good sword and run a way :D or use some strong spells, but sword is useless because you don't have strength for it, but is pretty cool to have it to future. And there is lots other hide places in game.

[@kingchirpa]

How did I even get here? I don't even play Gothic or Elex. Yet I watched the entire thing.

[@theultimatefreak666]

Now you got to start playing gothic (don't play the fourth though, it was made by a different developer)

[@Thandwar]

Wonderful video! looking forward to more elex content :)

[@BloodySeaGullsRoss]

Gothic 1 and 2 are way more superior games than Elex and I couldn’t agree more. But I still love elex.

[@Pokerface-tr1ds]

PB Fan since the very beginning here. As a German PB Fan I agree with you in some points, but a PB Game remains a PB game (let's exclude Gothic 3 here for a moment) when it comes to beautifully HANDCRAFTED LIVING AND BREATHING WORLDS! I must admit that I too miss the crafting I have been entertained with in Gothic 1, 2 and Risen 1. I simply miss working on the Anvil or an Alchemy Lab, or a Campfire / Cooking Pot etc. Yes... these MAY appear to be small details, but they also add to the immersion. Elex does a lot of good things, but as you said.. some of the "juicy details" are sadly missing! Man... I still remember how happy I was when I managed to forge my own very first Sword in Gothic 1, or my very first victory over some hated enemies (Lefty *cough cough*) after learning how to handle a one handed weapon properly! So yes... to quote another hated enemy (but this time around it just fits): it gave me a sense of PRIDE AND ACCOMPLISHMENT :)

[@MissyMousey]

Us Gothic fans _know_ that Piranha Bytes' RPG formula is the best and all we want is more of it. We got that with Risen 1 and ELEX, but unfortunately for the reasons you have listed in the video, they were not as great. Thank you for your video.

[@Caydiem]

With Risen 1 but definitely *not* with Elex. Elex was just another attempt at producing a game with mainstream appeal.

[@-.sy.5367]

I personally like true open world aspect of Elex. Writing is not that good as in gothic 1 for sure. Lot of unexplained not logical things are in the story, like you mentioned: your father, investigate the guy who shot your plane etc... Kinda feels like "cheap writing" where they needed something to continue the story so they added their first not overthought ideas. Also i didnt like that there isnt a single safe road to reach any city from Goliet. It question a base principle how they can trade, if the roads are not even safe. Ive even followed traders from Goliet and they went into Cyclopses and died... So clearly there wasnt even intention to make a relative safe road. Balancing also an issue lot of skills are useless. All enemies have random generated weapons (even companions) which is lame. But apart from these issues the game is great. I love playing it.

[@GoznerPeter]

You put up such a great question. Are we even allowed to start our adventure with the other 2 factions? Because if you travel there level 1 any moving enemy 1 shots you. Idiotic game.

[@-.sy.5367]

​@@GoznerPeter You can travel any city If you know how to. But you cant fight anything. You need to sprint and run away from every enemy which aggro you. 1. Run to the Domed city on the road left side of the converter. Doomed city teleport activate Ignadon aswell. 2. Fort is in a desert so you can see and avoid almost any encounter. -Third advice dont invest attributes in anything else but weapon stats, until you get rank 1 weapon.

[@GoznerPeter]

@@-.sy.5367 Thanks but nah. Not putting my hands on that hot garbage ever again. Belongs to the trash can alongside Gothic 4 Arcania or whats the name. Gothic 1-3 or Risen 1 I would gladly play again.

[@crestfallen821]

Alright, I never played any game mentioned in this video and I will do so now. I'll test if the quality of the old Gothic games is really that good or just nostalgically biased.

[@arnvonsalzburg5033]

And, what do you think?

[@crestfallen821]

@@arnvonsalzburg5033 I couldn't even launch the game haha

[@seimkeim]

You can sum it up by saying that Gothic 1 and 2 are perfect games. Thanks to a shitty publisher it all went south.

[@WizoIstGott]

Gothic 1&2 were my Childhood and I still wish for a game to capture the original feeling. I think there are certain Elements that Piranha Bytes did better in each one of the games, so a perfect PB Game for me would look somewhat like this: - Atmosphere and Immersion from Gothic (1): Give us a unique Universe with Characters that feel like real people, I wanna see guys from camp 1 talk about a trip to the mine and then see them go there in real time. I wanna see a small world that feels huge because there is so much to see in that small space. -Classes and Factions from Gothic 2: Gothic 1 had great Factions from a lore/worldbuilding Point, but they were insignificant when it comes to your character build. Gothic 2 nailed this in my opinion, the playstyle of each faction was as unique as the journey you had, I especially adore the mage progression. Magic feels like a secret kept by an organisation you have to proove your worth to before they innitiate you into the secrets of magic. And yes this means getting a sheep and delivering sausage before you get to cast even a simple fireball. -Combat System from Risen (1): Combat systems in Gothic have allways been easily exploitable trash, Elexs´combat system is bad as well. Risens combat system is pretty dynamic, Melee has a lot of Options that unlock as you progress your character. Its not perfect, but its by far the best PB has ever done. -Quality of Life Stuff from Elex: Elex has made a lot of menu interactions and inventory management a lot more bearable than it ever was in a PB Game, which is pretty important if they want to appeal to a wider audience. I however would get rid of the tutorial messages and map marker system in favor of a more immersive system like NPC´s giving more vague directions if they arent sure where the target is and map markers if they are sure where to go.

[@youngimmortal4719]

How to win in melee in Risen 1: Keep your distance, use the Lunge attack, hop backwards, then repeat. Risen 1's combat was too sudden, enemies lacked proper tells which made exchanging blows hard. Once you can lunge at enemies from a distance that doesn't trigger their aggression, that ends up being the key to victory the vast majority of the time.

[@novembrinewaltz90]

Amazing video... I love how deep your analysis is, and I really hope Piranha Bytes will draw their inspiration from this video for their future games.

[@yoyoandrew123]

Im so happy about your upload. This video is awesome and so well put together

[@bizznick444joe7]

When you earned the money in Gothic 1 and 2 you really felt like you earned it.

[@khatack]

The act that stats didn't do anything really took any fun out of Elex. Elex did the same mistake G3 did and wasn't a very good game overall as a result. Gothic I & II were about personal growth and exploration, Elex is about collecting goddamn toilet paper, which makes no sense, considering that toilet paper has been soaking moisture and rain from the environment for God knows how long.

[@babyfatso6563]

Very subjective point: the aesthetics in Elex are lame. Gothic's armour and world designs were kind of creative but not too unbelievable and enhanced the atmosphere, while the whole look of Elex feels uninspired to me. For example, adding glowy things to an otherwise dull looking piece of armour doesn't make it look science-fictiony, at least not in a good way. It just doesn't create a world that I *want* to be immersed in. Same thing with the colour palette: yes, it's colourful, but in a boring, unimaginative way.

[@szuflada010]

27:18 Gorn helping you good joke we all rembember the free mine

[@martinn.6082]

Fuck you and your Nazi picture

[@Kevin5279]

The part where Gorn beats the player up was actually a bug. I used to make Gorn stand at the entrance of the free mine so it reduced the chances of him slugging me

[@szuflada010]

@@Kevin5279 yeah i also did it every time

[@szuflada010]

@@martinn.6082 i accept it

[@martinn.6082]

@@szuflada010 why are you a fascist as a pole? Didn’t they murder millions of your people?

[@Agent0oh]

4:12 - I think it would have been weird for Jax to ask an NPC how to fight. Jax was, after all, a seasoned commander of the Albs. He wouldn't just forget how to fight, hence why I feel that the developers made use of the pop-up tutorials (at least, when it comes to combat I can see that as a solution). I am not exactly sure how else you can convey organically and non-intrusively information about combat. It would have worked though if the protagonist didn't have any background story in fighting or warfare (like a scholar or a worker). #12: I feel like that the Albs could've been made far more intimidating if the idea of the converters was far more fleshed out (maybe more grotesque and horrifying to even go inside, maybe the player witnesses what happens to a person as they are shoved into one of the converters). Maybe they could've created Alb raiding parties traveling around Magalan and making them stronger so that Jax would need to avoid them (and you get to witness what happens ot those who were unfortunate to meet them), or show a more harsher view of the Albs' thought process and actions that is far jarring and inhumane. Unfortunately, Elex doesn't do much of that, and the game could've done better. A lot of it has to do with the game telling you what is going on or where and by whom and what instead of just showing it to you. "Show, don''t tell" is a principle in design and writing, and it applies just as much to game design, as it would help to create a more realistic- or natural and organic - experience to the audience, especially when making a believable world and in storytelling.

[@AFCAWorldBodybuildingArchive]

HATE the graphics of modern games. Wish Risen 1 graphics came back. Warm, cozy, full, darker.

[@CESSKAR]

Thank you. You are probably the best expert on the Gothic games.

[@AFCAWorldBodybuildingArchive]

20:39 damn thats some god tier timing 😨😨😨💪

[@Kevin5279]

Thanks for making this video. Been expecting the video version of your blog article since a long time 😊

[@Skevinger]

Yeah Nr 3 is so true. I never felt loyal to them, because almost every character is an asshole and you have to make asshole-decisions in your quests or you can't become a member of any faction. You really have to play as an asshole to fight your way to the top.

[@kazimierzbadura9745]

I'm reading through some of your blogs and I noticed a lot of gothic related ones had their video adaptation. Are you interested in doing so with your Morrowind blog?

[@TheNocturnalRambler]

It's certainly one that seems worthy of being made into a video, but I honestly don't have any desire to replay Morrowind again to get footage for it. Maybe some day, but not any time soon at least.

[@garok2412]

He would be burned alive if he made a half an hour video dedicated to Morrowind critique :P

[@dexterx55]

For anyone who loves Gothic i recommend you to check out "Gothic 2 Returning 2.0 Alternative Balance". This free Mod made by the community for the players revamps Gothic 2 as whole and adds hundreds and hundreds of hours of gameplay, storylines, new guilds, weapons, new chapters, new worlds, that fit in the game as if Gothic 2 was created with them in the first place. During quarantine this reignited my passion for the game. Probably the best mod ever made for one of the most legendary gems in RPG - history. Give it a try and trust me you wont regret it!

[@kingprone7846]

small atmospheric world unfortunately doesnt sell as well as "Gameworld 1.3x the size of skyrim!"

[@wilddreams]

wow, that was a lot and hard to remember the first points xD but i wanna say some stuff. (ok, it was a lot of stuff) mostly, you are right :D to their defense...they do say that they are always gonna stay true to themselves and never go online and stuff but yer know, they have to survive, they have to make their games playable with console and by a younger audience. hence the more "easy" und understandable gameplay about the fighting, i wish you would have mentioned the actual fighting. regarding that topic, i actually love and prefer gothic 3. it offers you so many different ways of attacking at will, with only your mouse. lmb, lmb hold, rmb, lmb while blocking, lmb hold while blocking and all that with different fighting styles, dual wielding, 1 handed with shield, 2 handed...in risen they started with their generic combo where you just left click, left click, left click and occasionally block with right click. i really miss the possibility to decide what you wanna do and how you wanna strike a certain enemy at a certain point of time in the battle. it offered so much tactics to fights, especially in gothic 3. the guilds in elex, you could say, for the first time you really dont know who to join xD you could say it was TOO easy in gothic: the mercs. because they were the cool guys. and then there were the conservatives and the religious xD i just went full zerk because i still miss and prefer gothic and the fantasy theme. im not soooo much a fan of scifi/modern weapons and everything. i kinda agree on the map being TOO big. it can become overwhelming and even if the world is still very memorable compared to games like skyrim or...greedfall (ROFL), it can become too much and, thats where you are right, too much of collecting junk. now, to a lot of people, more is obviously better and that also pretty much leads to more playtime which also justifies the price and everything. new games today have huge maps and people want huge maps because in an open world exploration RPG, huge maps mean more gameplay. but just like in gothic 3, you could see that it was partly just strechted. which is again fair because it might seem even more realistic. there isnt a building, a ruin, a chest every 5 meters in real world. large fields of nothing are a thing. i think that elex kinda hit the right spot in regards of stretching the map. but what i would really like to see is MORE USEFUL STUFF to find! a thing that could have always improved piranha bytes' games would have been more equipment. more weapons, more armor parts like helmets (there are like 2 or 3 in gothic 3 and risen games?) and also elex doesnt provide much. they turned up the armor game with pants and stuff. but it was really not very much. and i understand, the main breast armor should be tied to the factions but even then there was stuff like the minecrawler armor in gothic which was a super cool thing and i just wished there was more unique equipment to find, mix and match. i always get so hyped about stuff like the helmet of the paladin in G3 because that kind of stuff is SOOO RARE! in PB games, over the whole cause of the game, you are probably changing weapons like 5-10 times or so. and i understand, it might be ridiculous to change your weapon for every 5 dps upgrade but it can also be a question of style, a question of gameplay (weapon range) and extra stats like elemental damage. there is so much that could be added that you have in other games and sure, they wanna stay a bit on the ground with the fancy fantasy stuff but you already have magic poles in gothic that provide a lot of fancy stats. they added sockets tho, which was a cool move. such a huge world also provides a lot of space for more unique equipment.

[@BockInAction]

Playing Gothic 1 and 2 is like coming home to your best friends from childhood. Nowadays rpgs are huge empty worlds and you develop no empathy for their npcs and problems.

[@Happytreefriendsfan3]

Thank you for making all these excellent videos on the first two Gothic games. What do you think of the final dungeon in Gothic 2? It was a letdown for me, as it really pales in comparison to The Temple of the Sleeper. I didn't expect a copy of that dungeon, but the final dungeon in Gothic 2 definitely should have been a more complex dungeon. The entire chapter 6 was a letdown for me, honestly.

[@TheNocturnalRambler]

The Isle of Irdorath is certainly far less involved or complicated than the Temple of the Sleeper. I didn't like how it was essentially just one straight path from where you first arrive, all the way to the Undead Dragon's chamber. It felt literally too straightforward in that regard. I like the "puzzle" with the gate, but wish the whole thing would've had more non-linear puzzle-solving where you had to branch out to different areas of the temple to do something in one area, to unlock access to another area. It might've been nice if your crew members could've been a little more involved, too. A good portion of them just stay on the ship to provide merchant / skill training services, when it would've been cool to have each companion get a special thing they could do on the island if you brought them along, and then thought to seek out their assistance once on the island. Weirdly enough, the most interesting, dramatic character interaction happens with Mario -- a character you barely know and had no real reason to bring to the island in the first place.

[@Happytreefriendsfan3]

@@TheNocturnalRambler Well said. If the dungeon is at least somewhat more complex and if the crew members did more the finale of the game would have been much better.

[@Wastydest]

Amazing video! But I don't really agree with your third point. In the original Gothic(s) there were also negatives to every faction. The old camp has a strict hirarchy, where the strong prey on the weak and (almost) everyone is a korrupt asshole to you. The new camp has some similar issues (look at the Rice Lord) and is full of anarchist's and thieves who treat you like they want. Finally the swamp camp is full of idiotic pottheads and weirdos and religious fanatics, who are dellusional about the problems around them. I think from the very first Gothic game it was the point to have different factions with different appeals, but also major downside. It show's that, like in the real world, there is no faction, that is entirely good or evil, and everywhere are both good and bad people.

[@TheNocturnalRambler]

That's true, but I felt like a lot of that was a byproduct of being in a prison and was to be expected of that environment. It added to the immersion that way, and it was easier to look past those issues because they were prevalent everywhere in the entire colony and was based on a more grounded reality. Something like the Swamp Camp worshipping the Sleeper seems analogous to the clerics worshipping Calaan, but at least the Sleeper is REAL so there's a firm basis for why they would believe in that god and worship it, unlike Calaan which is literally made-up. Point is, there's nothing in G1 or G2's factions as extremely negative as brainwashing people against their will, exiling and executing people for realizing the obvious benefits in elex technology, or trying to commit genocide against entire factions. There are downsides to the factions in G1 and G2, yes, but they're nowhere near as extreme and there are generally more compelling ideological reasons to join them.

[@Wastydest]

@@TheNocturnalRambler Well I still disagree. I think a post-apocolyptic society would overall have equally moral decay as a prison colony. So I felt the morals in Elex were also just everywhere and fit the scenario. I also don't think, that the god the people pray to beeing real or not makes their actions any more good or bad. Also the camps in Gothic were also in constant conflikt, and in the end full-out war, with each other. I also think, that in G2 the factions had similar downsides. The Firemages were theocrates who didn't really do anything to help the people, the Paladins were religious fanatics, who cared more about their rules, than any life's and the Mercenarie's were opportunistic criminals, who really just cared about getting of the island. So for me the moral downsides of the factions aren't any better in Gothic, than in Elex, although I think they were more subtle in Gothic.

[@TheNocturnalRambler]

@@Wastydest ​ You're right that the downsides of factions in G1 and G2 are more subtle than the ones in Elex, and that's my whole point -- in Gothic you have to take a close look at the factions and think about how they operate on a deeper level than what's ostensibly presented in the game (reading between the lines, basically) to notice those issues, whereas the issues with the factions in Elex are all blatantly obvious. Diggers in the Old Camp for instance talk about how miserable life is "slaving away" for the barons for a meager amount of ore, but they are being paid for their work, get to partake in outside goods, and they're being offered protection from the dangers of the rest of the colony. And ultimately, it's their choice to be there -- they aren't literally slaves to the ore barons, and they aren't being mentally controlled by psionic brainwashing against their will, like the clerics in Elex. Their rules are also pretty reasonable ("do the work expected of you, and don't cause problems") and their punishments aren't cruelly or unusually excessive; they don't forcibly toss people into the orc lands with no way out, or execute people for minor infractions or ideological disagreements, like the berserkers in Elex. Even if you're caught stealing from an ore baron, they just beat you up and take your ore as punishment, then leave you be. Even when Gomez attacks the Free Mine, he's not trying to slaughter and murder the entire New Camp -- he just wants their ore supply, and only because of the sudden loss of his own ore supply. Contrast that with Logan in Elex who literally wants to blow up the entire clerics faction with what is essentially a nuclear bomb, just because he wants more power than he already has. Ultimately, with each faction in G1 and G2, I feel like the pros outweigh the cons, whereas in Elex the cons outweigh (or at least equal) the pros. Like I said before, there's nothing nearly as extremely negative in the Gothic games as what's happening with the factions in Elex. You can spin plenty of negative qualities into the various factions from Gothic if you try hard enough, but none of them will ever be as gravely sinister as supporting a genocidal megalomaniac, or supporting a highly oppressive, draconian society that punishes free thought and expression with death, or supporting a phony, scam religion that forcibly recruits people into their ranks by turning them into brainwashed zombies.

[@Wastydest]

@@TheNocturnalRambler Ok I see your point. I still think the basic principle of good and evil is in every faction in all these games, but there are differences to which degree.

[@evilSevenYT]

Great video! Let's hope that PB recognised some of these things when starting development on Elex 2. Elex is a good RPG, but there is still such a long way to reach the heights of games like Gothic 1 & 2. For the monster design: I still get goosebumps when I hear the sounds of Harpys, or Skeletons that draw their swords in a dark forest. Not to mention the dying crys of Zombies... hugh. I don't get such a unique feeling in Elex or other games. (Well, except Jeff in Half Life Alyx....)

[@vast634]

Björns music is ok, working with the game. But not something outstanding.

[@modernmeat23]

37 minute video? here we go, bby

[@huawein2646]

Glad to see there's at least one guy overseas that know and appreciate these masterpieces.

[@kamenborisov8839]

Тhe dynamic attack animation development was major in Gothic. I played Morrowind a bit later and was stunned at how awkwardly static the fighting seemed, you had your fixed type of hits and the enemies didn't even respond properly to being hit. The weapon upgrading in Elex literally destroyed the need to find epic equipmen, which required much more stats to be used as compared to upgraded general weapons

[@ArniesTech]

I actually never played Elex because I absolutely hate the idea of playing a pre-made character with a Background story

[@DarkPrject]

When I recently played gothic 2 again, I was pretty impressed with how well it still held up. The magic was a bit boring, and combat in general would benefit from being more souls like, but the rpg elements and immersion were top notch. I particularly liked that everyone was a cutthroat asshole trying to fuck you over in some way or another. It really sells that the npcs are characters rather than just set dressing

[@RandomMusik]

In Elex i didnt want to join the 3 factions but return to the albs xD

[@pete9715]

They need to merge with Deck 13 to make a competitor to CD Projekt Red and From Software. Elex is great at narrative/story open world and The Surge has great combat. I believe they're both in Germany or at least Europe.

[@kayodoubleu3310]

Yeah. I thought about something like that a lot. A RPG world like Gothic with an action based fighting system like Dark Souls. That would be awesome. Dragons Dogma was the closest one that come close to this. And it was good.

[@nuggetmcfly8482]

Pete they both from germany and they are actually pretty close. They run the yt channel DEVPLAY, they discuss development related things there, like four or five studios. Sadly its in german

[@IamRawkin]

I completely agree with you and Deck13 has even assisted other developers in the past as a service (for smaller german indie studies). Sadly, that does not fit in the way PB "likes to run things" and there is nothing in the world that will change that.

[@TheHarkonnenScum]

They both lack the creativity to make actually good games. Them merging would do nothing.

[@Tyrian3k]

Sheesh, it's been so long since I played Gothic... literally played those when they came out. It was always fun to figure out a way to beat a tough monster early on, since it could actually be rewarding. Not just with an XP boost, but also the valuable loot they had. Gothic 3... well, I haven't played the fan-made patch for it, but when it was released, it was riddled with problems, ranging from memory leaks steadily filling your RAM up until even the best PC had to restart the game to continue running it, to a too big world with little direction and a severe lack of polish overall. I still remember how clunky and stiff the melee attack animations looked compared to its predecessors... Overall, it was a slog to play back then.

[@nuggetmcfly8482]

Tyrian3k u rly should try it with all those patches out now. The release was rly bad, the publisher jowood was in huge trouble and needed the cash, so they forced them to throw it out All their games they released when they was about to be bankrupt was full with bugs. They had the gothic licence for a certain amount of time so they made gothic arcania, gothic 4 but it was made from a different studio and it was sooooo bad. Noone even rly count gothic arcania as gothic. Jowood went bankrupt after this and this days PB have their license back, or well, nordic games now, cuz thay bought the studio

[@matman000000]

I gave up on Elex about 40h in. I think PB took the wrong lessons from Gothic. In G1+2, you die because you underestimate the world. In Elex, you die because the world is poorly balanced. You've got insanely tough monsters right next to weak creatures. Then they take the faction progression system from Gothic, but stretch it over a game 5-10x its size, so every fetch quest and journey across the map feels like an eternity. Basically, it lacks the immersive design and tough, but balanced experience that rewarded intelligence and caution.

[@NDakota79]

the best analysis about the difference between the two games I have ever seen

[@jimifender22]

I'm playing so elex now and really agree with the smaller map point. Gothic and risen I remember running around being familiar enough with the map where I basically remember where everything is and can eventually find my way around by memory. Elex you really need the waypoint

[@caringancoystopitum4224]

I love Bethesda's early games, like Oblivion, Morrowind and even Skyrim to a point. But I have to agree with a lot of comments here: Gothic 1+2 were quite a bit better. I remember most characters and locations and even quests from Gothic 1, 2 and 3. I don't remember that much from Morrowind or Oblivion, even though I played them much more recently than the Gothic games. That says a lot in my opinion...

[@youngimmortal4719]

Totally agreed. I wanted to like Elex and in a way I kind of did, but there's really no lasting emotional attachment to the game. I don't care about the characters, I don't care about the factions, I don't care about the locations and even the combat never really stuck with me. Flashback to Gothic 1, one of my favorite games of all time, and I'm just tripping over incredibly memorable and noteworthy things, both in the game world and in the game's design. The minimalistic UI, the atmosphere absolutely setting the theme, the recurring NPCs who are not only likable but actively helpful (STARK contrast to 99% of how most devs design their companion characters, making me feel like a babysitter for people with emotional problems), the feeling of progression, both in the events of each chapter and in my improving abilities and better gear... I still can't believe some people were defending that poor excuse of a 'remake' of Gothic 1...

[@raptorjesus6120]

Truly, the quest map marker is the bane of modern RPG gaming. Whenever I reinstall Gothic or its sequel, I instantly know where everything is and where I have to go and what the best ways are to get from point A to point B because I spent countless hours just figuring out quest locations when I first played the games. To this day, there is no open-world game (Dark Souls and Morrowind being notable exceptions) that has managed to achieve the kind of familiarity with your surroundings that Gothic created naturally as part of its game progression. Moreover, both the first game and its sequel were designed with unrivalled attention to detail--not a single stone seems out of place. Yet, behind every nook and cranny, there is often a little story or chest or just a noteworthy landmark to discover. Couple all of this with quests that challenge you to go out and explore, piece by piece, the more dangerous areas of the game world, and what you end up with is the sort of freedom that invites you to explore to satiate your curiosity rather than your sense of completion. So many modern games get this crucial design aspect wrong: They offer vast landscapes with nothing in them and quests that rarely venture beyond "fetch X" and "defeat Y". Gothic is one of those rare examples of a game, in which even meta-gaming aspects (such as doing all faction quests before joining a faction, which would bar you from doing them) feel rewarding rather than tedious owed to world design, character design, story-telling and so on. Really, I could sing praises all day. I'm just saddened that we will probably never see its like again.

[@Nikioko]

Correct, in Elex you don't want to join any of the factions. You have the choice between religious zealots, religious zealots and self-destructive idiots.

[@Kuposaur]

I did another Gothic 1 play-through last month. Amazing game. I stopped to think why its such a fulfilling game and I concluded the world size was one of many factors. Elex stat system was a big disappointment. If you read the tooltip for dexterity it sounds like it should increase ranged damage. I think they stats are either bugged, or the developers thought more damage would break the game.

[@CreativeUsernameHere-r1k]

Germans: making same quality stuff basicaly America: let's dumb down everything 'cept graphics let's make everything smaller and fuck our own lore

[@henryalbertjupiterhommel1368]

kai rosenkranz is one of the best game music composers hands down. This year i had an experience while playing Apex Legends on a friends account. He had his music turned of and the entire game felt of. I mean Apex isnt nearly as emmersive as gothic and it doesnt try to be, but what i found interesting is that even though apex doesnt live of its music it changes the entire gameplay experience

[@corvir4]

Finally video I can link to when somebody tells me Gothic's are garbage, "game as many in these times" yeah that's a quote... yeah, I know, it's nuts okey?;p I know that some games just don't match a praticular gamer but some respect is needed at least. This video makes me wonder in what point are we, even great publishers as CD PROJKET chases the "bigger better" theme. I often think if that trend is somehow connected to fact that game publishers always fight for American market and of course, this words are just motto of the USA. I mean we live in world where liniar game, excelent executed - Max Payne 3 was a finantial disaster, to bad that people are crazy about buying low quality games:/ But in the same time I'm proud that Gothic games are one of immortal games in my country and some of our folks are making "Kroniki Myrtany" which is basically game build on schemes of G2 including new story, new regions, new characters and many many more :) It's realasing soon.

[@roberttauzer7042]

Elix - pretty decent game. Gothic 2+ addon = timeless masterpiece.

[@noviomega15]

That was a really good comparison video! Thank you! I

[@histhoryk2648]

Gothic 3 have the best soundtrack in the series. It's undeniable: Vista point, Geldern Night, The Castle of Old Faring, Welcome to Varant, Vengard's Ruins, Ishtar, Pass to Nordmar My opinion about Elex. The world is just too big, honestly it's unnecessary. World's size could be smaller or similar to Gothic 3

[@MaxLohMusic]

Gothic 3 had a professionally written soundtrack recorded by a full orchestra. It was phenomenal. Other gothic games and also the Risen games also had professional soundtracks with interesting themes which sound good. Elex's soundtrack is a piece of crap written by someone with a very rudimentary understanding of music theory and harmony. It sounds like the stuff I wrote when I was 15 years old, mixed with a cat randomly stepping on a keyboard.

[@Amenoxiel]

I really wished PB would actually react to videos like this. Give their input on how or why some things changed or why they wanted to try something different.

[@robinroboter89]

well try posting it on their youtube channel, they are very active there and answer alot questions from the comments

[@Nodux359]

I played G1 in 2002 still on my old PC with lowest setting graphics and loved it. Then afew months later I got a new system a "consecrated" it with G2 on max settings. Oh boy, what an experience! Then I tried after so many praising review articles Morrowind. Sry, had to delete it after 2 hours and went back to playing G1 now on max settings.

[@kingprone7846]

i had the same. Was in school and someone recommended Morrowind. I sort of enjoyed it but the combat and the walls of text without real meaning just turned me off it and i just kept playing gothic 2.

[@Carnage7209]

Too easy. "What did gothic do better than Elex?" Everything Next question please

[@foulXD]

we have a winner!

[@adrenalin2957]

Gothic 2 NOTR (10/10) > Gothic (9,5/10) > Risen (8/10) > Gothic 3 (7/10) >> Elex (6.6/10) > Risen 3 (6.5/10) > Risen 2 (6/10)

[@foulXD]

i have almost the same list but elex is dead drop last on it, 4/10 nothing does it deserve. also yes, gothic 2 is their best game and their last good one at that.

[@ArniesTech]

Gothics atmosphere is so dense you could slice it with a knife 🙏

[@derandy6076]

nice vid! i wonder, have you played the german versions of gothic 1+2? the voice actors are mostly the same for both games but you can hear that they were not quite comfortable with their englisch pronunciation cause german is there native language. you will need to get the german version from somewhere, because u cant just switch the audio/text files. i played both and its a complete different experience. you dont even need to know german to hear the better and more comfortable acting. after all these years the german gaming community still says no game had such a good voice acting in german than these two games.

[@AFCAWorldBodybuildingArchive]

There's nothing I hate more than just controlling an already established hero with a name, a background story, own emotions and reactions.

[@brynjolfurhilmarsson3846]

20 years not one good rpg i have played. Only decent. World of gothic and class, quest, so much free roam, sneak and steal and so on makes this game so great. The playability is master piece.

[@Argimlas93]

Sometimes I hate I played these two games as a little boy. Cause I cant properly enjoy other rpg games since then.

[@capcom23]

I liked Elex somehow, but after finishing the game I went back and I got quite far again, but then I stopped. Went back to Gothic 1/2 games and Risen 1... Way better than Elex. The thing that bothers me are also the guns in this game. You can get grenades in 2 hits with bigger monsters you already taking them down and you don't need to be at higher level at all. In Gothic/Risen the reward was way better when you leveled up. But those cheap grenades (yes I know it's partof that game) but you all know what I'm meaning here. I restarted Elex recently and it was unplayble for me. I couldn't even listen to the stories the villagers were telling. And the Quests are also meh. I enjoyed quests in Gothic 2 way more and even in Gothic 1. Risen 1 felt (90% rewarding and worth) Elex is missing something here. Well it's what it is

[@TheNocturnalRambler]

I get where you're coming from, but the quests in Elex are actually really good and provide better, more robust role-playing options with decisions and consequences than what we had in Gothic. In Gothic, the majority of quests had only one solution, and so you were simply going through the intended process of completing it, with the main satisfaction being in figuring out how you were actually expected to accomplish the objective and then doing so on your own. They're excellent in terms of how they synergize with the great world design, and they provide a strong sense of adventure, but they're not very strong in terms of RPG mechanics. Elex gives you skill checks in dialogue to allow your stats and skills to influence the way conversations play out, either gaining more information and rewards through character interaction or unlocking alternative solutions to quests, with a higher percentage of quests involving some type of important decision that will affect the outcome. You can actually "fail" many of the quests in Goliet if you make bad decisions, and how you resolve quests in the Domed City affects the entire outcome of that town. Plus, the quests pretty much all have some sort of important storytelling, world-building element to them that helps to flesh out the lore of the world and its societies -- they aren't just pointless, shallow video game tasks like the ones in Gothic 3. I understand why you might enjoy the quests more in G1 and G2, as they are still extremely satisfying and enjoyable, especially for their time, but I just want to make sure Elex is getting the proper credit it deserves, because its quest design is actually much smarter and more sophisticated than a lot of more popular, more mainstream RPGs.

[@the_kovic]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that in the actual game, the wealth aspects of the Old Camp and the New Camp are completely backwards. You don't get shit in the Old Camp and have to fend for yourself. Meanwhile in the New Camp, Lee pays you 80 ore every day for being a mercenary.

[@karloscv1781]

I replayed both G1 and Elex recently, during the lockdown, and this video is spot on. I may disagree on the lack of intimidating enemies in Elex, I think Elex does a better job at this than even Gothic. Seeing a raptor early game or a troll later on is always p. tense (but yeah, the Albs are kindda meh). Btw I strongly recommend the overhaul mod (on Nexus) for Elex, it makes the game twice as good. Vanilla was p. poorly balanced, this mod fixes a lot of stuff. There's a lot of work and thought behind it. A must have.

[@ΣταύροςΧρήστου-ο6υ]

Gothic 1+2 are awesome games. For their age, they are perfect.

[@foulXD]

gothic 1 and 2 are timeless, well except for the graphics which on the other hands adds to their charm and dont get me started on the german VO, its beyond fantastic. :)

[@poloMpolo]

great thorough thinking, very nice essey. All this made Gothic really one kind of a game

[@kayodoubleu3310]

It is just madness that Gothic 1 & 2 are after 20 years still the best RPGs ever created.

[@Belgar]

A few months back I played the first Gothic, and I was surprised as to how fucking great that game is... I didn't finish but I'll try to continue now (if I remember the controls) i wish there were more games like that, and it's sad to see even Piranha Bytes itself lost the best part of their identity. I haven't played gothic 2 or 3 yet, I want to finish the first one before doing that. But when I saw a new game by them, I thought it was going to be like a gothic only more modern, and in a way it is, but not in the way that make what gothic did right better you know... anyway, I think Elex will be a pass for me, and that Gothic Playable Teaser, I feel conflicted about that.