Thinking Outside the Meter Box: Outdoor Consumer Units for EV Chargers

[@kieranmccreedy271]

I just installed a second meter box for additional equipment. - Cheap as chips - Matches nicely to the existing box - loads of room

[@AdamWatson001]

5:49 I love the way that the producer has taped over the Henley name but you mention it anyway lol

[@AsadMulla]

How would you bend the cable to fit in the 90 bend of the trunking?

[@Mike_5]

Right on point here eFixx with this one and surely the answer is for installers to install an additional GRP Meter Box alongside the DNO's so the install is aesthetically pleasing and provides plenty of room for the additional equipment?

[@TheEulerID]

If there is space for such a thing. There is not on my house.

[@Bongybill]

My charger was installed directly from the outside meter box (additional consumer unit in box). DNO have been recently and have not mentioned it. DNO are monitoring voltage into my house as recently charger has been shutting down due to a high incoming voltage supply (above 256v). DNO engineer said this is becoming quite common and being highlighted by car charger owners (apparently car chargers are less tolerable than other household appliances and so go into fault for protection when incoming voltage rises too much).

[@smiffysmiffy123]

Bg told me the same, they said you have to turn a cooker or shower on to drag the voltage down to reset the charger, a real problem I hear.

[@efixx]

It's probably your energy supplier who are responsible for metering who are more likely to have an issue with space inside the cabinet. The PEN fault device is most likely causing your charger to trip. This could be down to a cable fault, so the PEN detector doing it's job or more properties in the area being fitting with solar PV - 253VAC is the maximum voltage which is allowed at the properties supply point, hence the DNO need to investigate. Check out this video to understand more of whats happening 👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmaZY3yQZtOCia8

[@neilmick6778]

You need to check the temperature range on the MCB and RCBO. I believe BG operation range only goes down -5 celcius.

[@BF1GUN]

If the UK wants to encourage EV adoption, they have to drop the idea of having the charger connected to the internal CU box. For many houses it will be impractical, unsightly and expensive. I am about to have an EV charger installed by a major energy provider, and they do not require any connection to my internal CU box. Thanks for the video, I really like that solution.

[@protectiongeek]

Retired DNO engineer here. The thorny issue of what can and cannot be housed in a meter box seems to come up about as often as the 'can an electrician pull the main fuse for isolation' issue. Any person applying for a supply of electricity from a DNO (or IDNO) will discover part of the letter of quotation stating, not unreasonably, that accommodation of the DNO's terminal equipment and the meter operator's meter is the responsibility of the applicant. The letter will usually state the minimum accommodation requirements in terms of location of the apparatus and physical dimensions of wall space required, which will vary, of course, depending on the supply type and capacity. For many domestic installations, the wall-mounted meter box is a convenient and readily available way to satisfy the accommodation requirements. The important thing to note in this issue/debate is that the supply termination _accommodation_ belongs to and is controlled by the *owner* of the property, not the DNO. The owner can put anything they like in the accommodation space as long as it doesn't present any safety issues to the DNO's equipment or the metering equipment, doesn't breach any building regulations or standards and does not impede the reasonable access to the installed equipment by the DNO, meter operator or their agents. You can keep your milk cool in there or store your DVD collection or keep a potted plant in it if you want (well, maybe not the potted plant) - it's YOUR building! DNOs and organisations such as NICEIC are inherently risk-averse so it comes as no surprise that they take the safest, least controversial route and respond with 'we do not recommend....'. I've seen LV cable-heads in some interesting locations, although all the meter boxes I've seen are pretty unremarkable, to be honest. As videos like this demonstrate (thanks Gordon, for another excellent video), the prefabricated meter boxes are principally designed to accommodate the supply termination and metering equipment alone and not much else. That anyone actually manages to competently and safely fit additional equipment in any standard meter box is testament to their skill and determination! Maybe there is a potential market for a 'meter box +', which is designed to accommodate the usual apparatus and additional equipment like the BG distribution board shown in this video. Might be some structural issues about needing a lintel over the top or something like that; I'll leave that to those qualified to comment on matters structural. Just one point about the EV Ultra cable. Recently, on another fairly well-known, UK-based electrician's KZbin channel the creator was 'pulled-up' by commenters for routing a Cat 6 Ethernet cable through a distribution board (the route made sense, physically) on the basis that BS7671 Section 528 (?) said it was not permitted. Maybe the insulation design on the Ultra cable ticks the boxes that a bog-standard Cat 6 would not.

[@efixx]

Great information and a very sensible approach suggested - I'll use this in our eFIXX TV episode on Wednesday - cheers *Gordon

[@dashcamuklee8949]

Does it have any way to lock the cover in place so anyone walking past are unable to turn off your car charger? Big design oversight if not

[@persona250]

What’s the point in locking the fuseboard when the unlocked box supplying the fuseboard is next to it .

[@dashcamuklee8949]

But meter boxes are locked! Admitted minimal security lock but stops the local kids casually switching the power off. Not many of them will be carrying a meter key.

[@maidbloke]

6:35 I think you mean Tobermory which is the real name of the village which features as Balamory in the children's series 😊

[@elliot330]

Is the cover on the DNO isolator installed the wrong way around? Shouldn't the smaller access terminal cover be installed on the consumer side, thus only exposing the isolated terminals?

[@stunimbus1543]

Armoured cables have a minimum radius specified for bends. Do EV ultra cables also have minimum bend radii and if so - are the right angle bends in the decorative trunking too tight?

[@oiuslags]

Aluminium that will be dust inside 5 years any where near the coast

[@efixx]

=AD= Learn More about the BG Sync EV circuit protection range. 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/bg-ev-cp

[@shaunkaye9445]

I have had and tested so many BG boards and sockets etc that have had faults, for example faulty RCDs or 20dp that don't switch the neutral ( very common) I now will not buy anything made by them. Anyone else experienced this with BG or have I been unlucky?

[@rjkelectrical6086]

I have experienced this too, the din rail always bends like crazy too making it impossible to get the cover on.

[@obd6HsN]

Yep, never had so many MCBs fail as with BG

[@shaunkaye9445]

@@rjkelectrical6086 yep the cover is a nightmare!

[@shaunkaye9445]

I would just like to go back on something tho, I do like their outside sockets.

[@shaunkaye9445]

I've also seen RCDs that don't trip but just start smoking instead.

[@Chris_In_Texas]

And why wouldn't they make as an option one with pen fault detection as well? That would be ideal so you don't yet need another box on the wall.

[@rjkelectrical6086]

Most EV chargers come with PEN fault built in now

[@leighsmith7965]

Check out the Garo unit. Can get them with SPD type A RCD and a pen fault unit all built in. Only unit that provides this as far as I'm aware

[@rjkelectrical6086]

@@leighsmith7965 proteus do one as well mate

[@JamesEdwards860]

What size tails did you use for this? I wouldn’t of thought 25mm tails would fit in that flexi con

[@efixx]

10mm2 - why would you use 25mm sq for a 7kW load?

[@JamesEdwards860]

@@efixx you wouldn’t , I was thinking if it was being used for other purposes such as providing a supply for an out building or something 👍👍

[@HeathenGeek]

hmm, wonder if clients would pay more for a diecast alunuminuminum consumer unit inside their property? Would also be nice if those switches were actually fully visible operable when the lid was open without having to crouch down 😏

[@sergiofernandez3725]

What is the IP and IK rating?

[@alanbeard4871]

Modifying my comments. Originally I believed that there was a temperature rating issue with these products in cold weather conditions, as RCBO's on the BG web site seam t be rated at -5C. But having now looked at an RCBO in real life and also realising that there is a -25C marking hidden under the subtitles in the video I can see that both the RCBO and RCD's are rated at -25C. Not sure about the SPD and MCB protecting it, but in my mind this is much less critical.

[@efixx]

BG have placed a product on the market and stated it’s application for this purpose. We will explore the topic of ambient temperatures and circuit protection in a future video. All circuit breakers etc have rating curves for ambient temperature. There is a bigger risk placing a consumer unit inside the meter box so an enclosure within an enclosure, which is also subject to the powerloss created by the incoming fuse which can be around 10watts at full load.

[@gavjlewis]

For white rendered house you can get white heat shrink sleeving to put round the cable. Think it comes in 5m lengths. Then use linian super clips that are available in white.

[@efixx]

Great idea

[@TheEulerID]

I very much doubt that heat shrink sleeving is UV protected. It's a sort of stretched rubber that tries to revert to its original dimensions when heated.

[@gavjlewis]

@@TheEulerID Well it's not fallen to bits and has been on over 3 years now. It's not the brilliant white it was and has dulled down a little but so has the white paint on the render and the UPVC windows so blends in more than it did. If it does fall to bits in a few years it's not a massive job to replace it. Still think it better than a junction box on the wall swapping from black to white cable.

[@karthikeyannatarajan5897]

Nice video, thanks. BG SyncEV range has few of these enclosures : CFEV1A has double pole RCD, CFEV2 is a 100A mains switch, CFEV1RDA has RCBO etc. - some are for use with cables with mechanical protection and some are for cables without mechanical protection. It will be good to understand when to use which unit - will you be able to make a video comparing these 3 types of IP65 consumer units from BG SyncEV range. Thanks

[@Ant86744]

Best practice if the cable has no mechanical protection ie steel armoured or in conduit etc on the full run then the rcd/ rcbo version is required, if mechanically protected then the 100A version can be used. The 40 A mcb is used because 7.4 kw roughly works out to 32A and you should not run any protective devices at 100% of its capacity for long periods of times and most manufacturers recommend 60 to 80 % of maximum rated current usage to ensure longevity and performance. Between rcbo and rcd choice is down to what protection the ev charger has built in/advise to be used and the area in 🇬🇧 and regulations being installed to. I hope that helps

[@AntonyoKnight]

Noticed that Octopus Energy "approved Ohme installers" install straight away in the electricity meterbox without a doubt and they advertise on their website as well. These big companies make tons of installations daily and nobody stops them, meanwhile they shave off the market with crap installation without SPDs, EV Ultra cable and make the EV installations cheap as chips...

[@carltonlane8931]

Umm,just looked in my ev change point connection,inside the wall box?the glads for the cables up?no surge protection.?umm ..it.

[@shaunhw]

But doesn't any meter box restrictions also exclude Henley blocks and CT clamps as well?

[@justbreakingballs]

Not really, no DNO is going to cause a fuss over Henley blocks in the box.

[@paullanham1014]

So you can’t fit any other equipment in the meter box and spend a fortune getting round that… just to fit a hendley block in there that fills the meter cupboard up? Cos that makes sense right?

[@alpachino468]

Octopus EV installed the white version of the box on the exterior next to the meter box - did I hear correctly that the white version is the interior version? The other thing is that on these boxes, is it possible at all to lock or padlock this box so that nobody can get into it?

[@jamesanthoney978]

The white BG metal consumer units are IP rated to outside. It has a waterproof seal on the enclosure lid and the front of the board. Make sure it’s always clicked shut to maintain the IP rating👍most do have a padlock hole but some of them only have a little tab similar to the one in this video.

[@l.hughezz]

if it's a PME system, would that make the main earth terminal an exposed live part during a fault?

[@Mike_5]

Not if the EFLI impedance meets the Regs

[@l.hughezz]

@@Mike_5 thanks, Is that a specific regulation I could look at?

[@cestemshow]

The metallic casing could rise in potential in reference to true earth during a PEN conductor failure yes.

[@bea1365]

Do they charge you for electricity at commercial rate having an EV charger or is it residential rate?

[@deanirvine4050]

given its a power circuit under 32A, does it need AFDD protection? Seems unnecessary but a gap in the wording of the regs

[@MrCarlRobinson]

Is the outside Alu box lockable? I have a portable charger that came with a 32A CEE. I’d like to have the Alu box with the RCBO to connect the wall mounted CEE socket to, but I’d need the box to be secure. Thanks.

[@christastic100]

Nice tidy job . Iv used these BG outdoor consumer unit and they are a great solution for several situations. Would be great if they made a bigger version also.

[@efixx]

They are 👍🏻

[@AdamWatson001]

This looks just like their "shower" and "garage" CU, only painted dark grey rather than cream ;-) With the exception of the seal of course... I love it though, it means that I can install an EV Charger without having to even touch their internal CU which means I don't take any responsibility for any of the circuits in it and also means that a customer won't "have" to upgrade their ancient CU if they don't want to, yet... I would call this a budget friendly game changer! Thank you.

[@carlmarquardt994]

Why is it a problem having the new circuit originate from the CU? Ours is in the Landry so ruining another cable would be a ballache whereas the out for idea direct from.tje outdoor supply box is very close to where we park our cars... therefore is that the main reason? Ta

[@justbreakingballs]

Your question makes no sense. I mean if I understand you the answer is exactly what this video shows.

[@Hammy135]

Someone’s bound to come along and not close that cover properly, and then what? I wouldn’t like to see one of those full of water

[@efixx]

It's a quite a challenge for the cover not to latch shut due to the weight.

[@smiffysmiffy123]

Effix why have you used an rcbo when the charger you have shown has inbuilt rcd protection 🤔

[@matthewthomas6121]

Not sure about the type of RCD in the BG charging point, but a lot of them are OEM designed and built, so don't comply with the BS EN standards for RCD's stipulated in BS7671.

[@efixx]

It's down to installer choice and installation requirements. A version with mcb only is also available. Note we haven't used armoured cable in this installation. As mentioned by Paul, The issue regarding built in RCBOs is causing some confusion atm. People seem happy to rely on the DC leakage element being "built in" to the charger and fit a type A rcd upstream. Surely if the RCD isn't compliant then you'd have to fit a much more expensive Type B device.

[@matthewthomas6121]

@@efixx Totally agree it's confusing, the way I see it is the 6mA RDC -DD meets IEC 62955 so is type tested, so an external type A RCD 61009 etc can be used upstream, but the built in type A on some devices doesn't meet 61009. So for me it's either a departure on the EIC or an additional RCD upstream of the charging point, which can lead to selectivity inconvenience.

[@samplumbe3288]

What is the difference in having terminal blocks in the meter cupboard compared to a small CU or breaker. DNO's and the NICEIC are drama queens. Granted in many instances there is not space but where there is why not use it. We have metal feeder cabinets on my jobs for all the houses and we have the space for the head, meter, isolator and either a breaker or small CU for the armoured into the house.

[@efixx]

The main difference is the protective devices generate heat compared to terminal blocks. At full load a 100A fuse can dissipate around 8-10 watts - so add this to the service fuse and you have 20 watts of heat in a small enclosure, which could also be being baked by the sun.

[@holmesjunction]

?? D-Line trunking vs bending radius of cable ?? See your own video?🥱

[@piotrlobacz]

Maybe they wired it in singles? 🤣

[@holmesjunction]

@@piotrlobacz Not on this video. Just photo shopped.

[@chrismiller8645]

Was thinking exactly the same thing

[@Danny-do2ov]

Can you fit 25mm Tails and 16mm earth in flexi con if so what size did you use. Thanks

[@efixx]

We used 6mm sq - no need for 25mm

[@Danny-do2ov]

@efixx Thanks so much for the reply. Could you use 16mm or 25mm in this case though or is it overkill?

[@pugmanick]

Would this be a good solution for Solar installs as well?

[@efixx]

👍

[@briangriffiths1285]

And will there be a 3 phase version for the new generation of cars with European style charging at 11/22 kW? No new house should be built without 3 phase except small flats.

[@mattp9394]

Great video. Are those 16mm tails you have you used connected that second DB to a 100a fuse though? Or is that deemed ok as the load going through them will not be greater than 32a/7kw?

[@efixx]

Hi Matt - We actually used 10mm2 and could have even used 6mm - which at first sounds wrong - but check out this video to understand the requirements given in the regulations. -kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHLXdHR3itWLqck

[@delspark]

@@efixx i watched that video and for protection against overload yes but what about fault current these smaller tails would be protected by the DNO fuse and apparently this is not allowed. i would love to hear efixx view 🙂

[@darrellhooper9973]

I gather you keep this locked? There is a risk it can be turned off and someone can then cut the cable and steal the charger?

[@stephenantliff4817]

😂

[@rjkelectrical6086]

I like the idea of this, neat install . Just hope BG boards have Improved there quality as there boards years ago were terrible.

[@chrismiller8645]

The die cast ones are ok but I stopped using the steel ones as they’re awful

[@rjkelectrical6086]

@@chrismiller8645 what’s the price on a die cast EV board

[@danelectric702]

Yes I’ve had the same problem, tested a block of flats with bg split load boards in and every rcd (x2 in each board ) failed, turns out they were only install the year before lol

[@alanbeard4871]

Personally I prefer to have the spd with the isolator switch to provide best possible protection to the entire house

[@jonathanrose456]

Can you by the enclosure separate?

[@mickbitchum4664]

You can get a very similar one in white from CEF made by MCG, not sure about a grey one though

[@TheEulerID]

That looks like a nice, high quality solution.

[@Nigel1969]

Great vid and good idea on the dline trunking to tidy it up as long as it can take the UV also 👍

[@Beanie1984]

I prefer plugging my car into the lamppost, much cheaper and convenient.

[@mikewhitby2686]

I prefer putting diesel in mine😜

[@jamiebourne8047]

@@mikewhitby2686 I put diesel in my lamppost too😄

[@Mike_5]

Much Cheaper too!

[@craigbutler6243]

That's a great solution. We'll done BG

[@67MJH]

Flexible Conduit - worth considering a long lasting material not use flexible plastic as shown

[@LL-cm7mi]

16 mm tails? on 100Amp fuse??

[@efixx]

If you had an 800 amp busbar in a factory - would all of the cables connected to distribute power be rated at 800 amps? Learn more here 👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHLXdHR3itWLqcksi=dRK8cA3t8h01j0v_

[@danf6491]

Wonder why nobody has built an ev charger with integrated din rail for a small RCBO. Would only need a small kmf switch then if over 3m of tails.

[@persona250]

Project EV

[@danf6491]

@@persona250 wow, never seen or heard of this till now . Thanks .

[@leonelectrical]

One thing that’s always worried me is have meter boxes ever contained asbestos ??

[@MattyH-jz2im]

We usually presume contamination. Well, on older commercial buildings anyway.

[@reece77778]

Were 25mm Tails not reqired?

[@mickbitchum4664]

No. Its only supplying a 7kW charge point so tails sized to suit - 10mm is fine.

[@efixx]

We made this video which explores the regulations which allow for selection of smaller cables protected by a higher current upstream device 👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHLXdHR3itWLqck

[@Superkev001]

I thought we had a regulation where on TNC-S tails had to be 25mm. We code it on EICR's. What's the regulation you mention that lets up fit 10.0mm tails as would be interested to make sure for future reference

[@matc1603]

@@Superkev001 that's correct between meter and CU or meter and KMF. After the KMF you can use suitably sized conductors.

[@Superkev001]

@@matc1603 but they don't have a KMF. They just have Henley blocks. There is no overload protection other than DNO fuse

[@93lornamae]

Why does the EV charger need a CT. And 25mm conduit looks better down from CU to Charger.

[@benlister0]

So it can send excess solar to the EV rather than exporting to the grid. If the house doens't have solar / some kind of micro generation then the EV charger doesn't need a CT.

[@Toob41]

@@benlister0All Pod Point (UK) chargers have a CT to load balance in case total house demand gets near the main fuse load limit and reduces the charger current.

[@benlister0]

Yep good point thanks @toob41.

[@davidduckworth9094]

Nice job boy's however 1st of all the metered box is for metering equipment not dp bocks and you haven't left any room for a smart meter as these are much larger.

[@efixx]

Most DNOs show in their T&Cs for connections that the lower right quarter of the board is reserved for customer "equipment" for connecting the meter tails. There is ample room for a smart meter above the service cutout.

[@davidduckworth9094]

@eFIXX yes unfortunately the DNO does but don't get confused between the DNO & the MOP in the 1st place the DNO fits the supply in then the MOP fit's the meter and normally a isolator that isolator then becomes the customer's equipment so when the customer then changes supplier that supplier normally requires a smart to be fitted hence the problem no room for the smart meter please see attached photos and required space.

[@davidduckworth9094]

@eFIXX have emailed them to you enjoy

[@davidduckworth9094]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmeXoX2Jm6aohbs

[@andreasu.3546]

Flexible conduit...has someone been to Spain recently? ;-)

[@efixx]

🤭

[@karthikeyannatarajan5897]

I don't understand....can you elaborate - sorry

[@adriansmith3116]

Why so much jargon but no explanation to what they mean.

[@efixx]

It’s aimed at electricians who should be familiar with the jargon. We have 100’s of other videos which explain stuff in more detail.

[@СергейСущик-б7ж]

Что за скобы такие на которые кабель закрепили

[@ELECTRICLIFE4U]

👍👍👍👍👍

[@efixx]

Thanks 👍🏻

[@nathanidell6696]

Great idea …

[@andrewstafford-jones4291]

A crappy piece of black corrugated conduit ?? That won't last too long exposed to UV.

[@efixx]

Depends upon the grade and manufacturer

[@alanwilliams4835]

What are they talking about? Not recommended absolutely no. Use your common sense.

[@jocosson8892]

#StopOil extra plastic trim is useless.

[@canonlensesandcameras4425]

took me 2 days to get front off bg unit due to one stripped head by idots who took it apart.

[@pstanyer1]

You can put one in there is no law only common sense...