This Atheist Would Like to Talk About Jesus.

[@springbrewer8156]

Hi. I'm a left Leaning Christian from Texas. I truly enjoyed this! Thank you! I am surrounded by Trump enthusiasts and they claim to be Christian but there is nothing to indicate that they are following the teachings of Jesus. My heart is troubled and I struggle to understand them.

[@Sharon-fw9qw]

They don't care if what they believe is true or not as long as they get their way and a president to instigate it. tRump was perfect for this because he's so EVIL And STUPID.

I feel your srtuggle. U R not alone. All 5 of my siblings are maga's. They have succumbed to this cult like phenomenon. I fear for my country, our lifestyle. One man equals destruction.

[@rickcampanella4254]

It's called ecumenicalism. A one world religion Christian Nationalism. He has a catholic beast church VP. There are many antichrist.

[@rickcampanella4254]

What's a left leaning? You're OK with abortion? There's no right and left anymore because the whole system is corrupt.

[@tprosc6239]

Mr. Schaeffer, you sir are a true American treasure and real example of a patriot! Thank you so much for sharing your insights, knowledge, truth and wisdom. Your videos should be required watching for all Americans!

[@jaelo2314]

Agreed. We get a sane explanation of an insane era

[@StartAtTheEnd]

The entire country has largely memory holed the pandemic - the million+ dead are not publicly mourned or remembered, and the millions more who are now living with profound disabilities following Covid infections, continue to be blatantly unacknowledged. The capacity for cold heartedness is breathtaking…

So sadly true, 1+ million.

[@KariRazo-wb1cg]

Trump has the blood of these millions of innocent people by his botched response or lack thereof- Instead, he mourns & fights for Jan 6th Insurrectionists. He fights for pro-life, yet forcefully separated over 5,000 children from their parents bc Trump & his administration FAILED to have any sort of reunification plan in place- The list goes on & on of Trump hypocrisy- What I’ve learned from the GOP, all of those they complain about or call out-are their own confessions-they are a sick bunch!

[@SideB1984]

I fear Ugly Laws will be reinstated; the final law was only repealed in 1974! The ADA has never had an audit function, no enforcement like tax or criminal law. EEOC is only there after the fact, and one has to be aware and brave enough to do that. ERISA laws that cover insurance appeals were written primarily for pension plans. It’s not going to ever get better. Last year, the restoration act turned 50, and they released a report about how far we’ve come. That’s all about to be destroyed again.

[@cowgirljane3316]

I asked a preacher once, if a man raped a child every day, and repented every night, was he going to heaven. And he said yes. That's why I walked away from organized religion years ago. That and other things. But I never walked away from Jesus and his teachings.

[@deirdremorris9234]

Same here. ❤

[@Plethorality]

That is not repentance. Thats repetition. Your preacher was insane.

[@scottharrison812]

I read recently, on Quora, “Before his death, Jeffery Dahmer accepted Jesus, was baptised, and begged for forgiveness. Did Jesus forgive him? If so, is he now in Heaven?”. The reply was a convoluted, horrifying apologetic which could only lead to a complete disgust with Christianity: Dhamer luxuriating in Heaven’s eternal bliss while his (unsaved) victims experience eternal torment. Casuistry at it’s worst: this is no Gospel; it is a satanic proposition best answered by atheistic contempt. Interestingly the existentialist Russian Orthodox philosopher Nicholas Berdyaev said that ANY attempt to rationalise evil, to propose easy utilitarian, contractual solutions to spiritual/metaphysical matters always leads to these vapid, pharisaical conclusions. Christians should occupy their time less with theological cant, and more with pity, justice and lovingkindness for a world in pain.

[@KarmicJustice-OFG]

I am in the exact same boat. It didn't take me long to figure out that the Christian church has been massively overrun with grifters and pedophiles. Yet following the teachings of Jesus, spreading love, showing empathy, not pre-judging those you just met, just feels right. The one thing from the bible that I took to heart was "do onto others as you would have others do onto you". Good people don't need religion to do good things

Same here.

[@terrirafiq9329]

On my reading list is a book about being a "secular Jesus follower." That feels about right for where I'd like to be.

[@StartAtTheEnd]

The disabled are rarely mentioned - outside of disabled military - and yet we have never had anything close to equal human rights and dignity. The fight toils on…

[@catwilliamson3887]

Very interesting. But one thing that bothers me is putting all Christians in the right. I consider myself in the left, and progressive. I am a Christian who believes in Christ's teachings of love your neighbor. I believe in the importance of the separation between church and state and the rule of law. I also believe that the right is largely motivated by greed and I don't understand Christians who vote against Healthcare, programs that lift up those in poverty. I wish that I would not be grouped as a right because of my Christian beliefs.

[@ewencameron4269]

Thank you Frank I suspect you're closer to the almost unbelievable but resurrected and living Christ then many of us

[@karennielsen9248]

Almost or even maybe all of the atheists and agnostics I know have no problem at all with the ethics Jesus taught, the red words of the Bible. We just see so many people claiming to follow him who don’t follow his teachings. And their organizations that are so often corrupt. And the violence and oppression inflicted in his name. But we respect people like you who aren’t complete hypocrites.

[@barryhammond9839]

Frank ..from a Canadian Christian, thank you for your insight.

[@Rob_H.]

You are a national treasure, Mr. Schaeffer. We need your voice during these perilous times. You’ve inspired me to purchase your Thank You painting. It is beautiful, and I also imagine it to be a scene you often see. I will email you about it soon today, 11/14. Thank you, sir.

[@FloppityFlopFlop777]

Thank you for addressing this. It's bothered me for many years.

[@cheryldavis7813]

Dear Frank, thank you for your long struggle in your own soul to seek truth and justice tempered with mercy.

[@DennisSheaPRM]

I'm an atheist also, Frank.("Enlightened Irish Catholic") After listening to a few of your recent videos I grabbed my late wife's Bible(she never let go of the Catholic faith). The main reason I thought I was doing this was to point out the hypocrisy of MAGA Christians, Christian Fundamentalists (the American Taliban), Evangelicals, and the like. What I found is that I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, except for the virgin birth, Son of God, & the resurrection after being crucified stuff. I also think the Aposels are more responsible for that narrative and some of them had agendas. Thanks for what you do. I enjoy listening to you.

[@bettycleary1531]

Agree 100% 🇮🇪🇮🇪

Here with u Dennis.

[@BeyondExtinctionLove]

Wow, you truly inspire me, I’m sharing this w everyone I know

[@3243_]

Thank you for your words of wisdom, Frank. And thank you for seeing the light on the right-wing attitudes of the milieu you came from.

[@tooradixx]

Frank, I appreciate what you have said. What Christ has lived and said cannot be denied. Wether we are believers or atheists does not matter. We are all brothers and sisters and due our human rights. Love you, my brother.

[@clgrassi8101]

Thank you always Frank for your highly intelligent, articulate and informative insights. 😎

[@deborahdavis8632]

Thank you so much. You are helping me process what’s happening.

[@LS-jr1wv]

The first people's of America should be taken into consideration as well. American democracy was, in fact, based on the Iroquois Confederacy with two very important differences. One of which was the suffrage of women, they held positions on the council and were a part of the decision-making process, the other difference is that all people were considered to be human. The fact that our democracy was based on this idealogy was recognized by the first Bush administration.

[@andreaplaysguitar]

Amen to that 🙏 you are a brave man. ❤

[@emilywilson7308]

You are absolutely right! We lost our way because we reject the true teachings of Jesus.

[@debrastrayer8600]

Well said. Thank you.

[@christinehavens2846]

You are a treasure, sir. So glad to have found your channel.

[@StartAtTheEnd]

It is hard to find anyone - MAGA, left, or independent - who is actively seeking to follow the teachings of Christ. Once people have even a little bit of money, power, or influence, they begin to reject the teachings of Christ - especially those regarding the “least of these.” Eugenics is very much alive and well in our culture. I left monetized religion a long time ago and I will never get back in a pew under anyone! I have never loved Jesus more, but I am sickened by how many claim His name, yet deny His cross.

I can so relate to what U R saying.

[@lauraestrada7279]

@Frank Schaefer I just downloaded the book Eve! It's entrancing. I want to send it to a couple of female close friends. I am a former fundamentalist who is restruggling with my fear of death since my mom passed a month ago. She was 83. But up until this past year she fought it until her very tired frail body wasn't keeping up with her mind. That part hurts and angers me. I miss her and since I no longer believe. My separation anxiety is through the roof with no hope of ever being in her loving presence ever again. I'm the youngest of four. I'm 48. I realize now I'm one of the younger Generation Xers losing their moms (the silent generation and rock n roll generation) young. Its really causing me anxiety alongside with my grief.

[@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648]

Was there anything of a recollection or a sense of God that has been left over from the frightening fundamentalism experience? Are you still aware of something transcendent that was dreadfully violated by that experience but you somehow know still deserves to exist? Death, in the grasp of those who have embraced the Christ spirit, becomes a door to a new phase of everlasting life. Maybe even your mother did that embrace, but suffered a lot of fundamentalist garbage alongside of it which God could clear better while she was resting because she was forced to rest. I know that one day I will simply forget the spiritual garbage I got embroiled in, which right now I am keeping at bay by God-supported efforts of indignant resisting will. Entry into eternity, for everyone who will let God make it so, becomes a losing of the love-spoiling remnants of sin with a gaining of the joyous, strong, loving righteousness of God. Doubts will be over. Old family relationships won't exist in their old form (Jesus addressed that question), but a new relationship with the entire worshiping congregation of God will exist, based in a relationship with God. Everybody's spiritual eyes will have new lenses that do things they never could on earth. Fall on the spirit of God more and more, and worry less and less. There was not an iota of love in your mother that God didn't put there first. Now it's your time to be immersed in it so that it may in turn be radiated outward. And I am sorry in advance if this errs or falls short. Love continues to exist. The love from your mother did what it could, doubtless not perfectly. Now it is time to walk in the pattern of its best, and anxiety should subside.

[@RobertGraziose]

My mom passed 5 years ago the day after tomorrow. 15th. I feel your pain. The Invisible man payed her back for her singing his praises, for no pay,,in the church chior for her whole life, by giving her dementia. Her frail body now had a frail mind to match. Can't say he doesn't have a sense of humor. I do however resent it when my precious mother is his cosmic punch line. 👊.

[@cowgirljane3316]

Laura, My mom loved Cardinals. And we had plenty, sometimes 30 pairs in the trees and bushes around the house, singing their wonderful songs. The day after my mom died in March of 2020 (at 2:20am) I was awakened by the song of a Cardinal singing at my bedroom window ... at 3:00am. I thought it was just a dream and went back to sleep. The next day, the cardinal woke me up again, singing at my bedroom window at 3:00am. I thought, "This is really weird" and went back to sleep. The next day, the cardinal woke me up AGAIN, at 3:00am. I suddenly thought .... "Mom is that you?!" I grabbed my phone and turned on the video just as the bird finished its last note. I never heard the cardinal again. But by then, I knew it was a sign from my mom telling me she was safe. In all the decades we've had of Cardinals, I never, ever heard one sing at night. And I haven't since. These is something beyond death. I have no idea what: A Matrix, a consciousness, a heaven ... or maybe we are just a holodeck program on a Ferenge freighter. But there's something.

[@carolyngartner6865]

You don't have to be a Christian to believe in the afterlife.

[@dorabora73]

Love your podcasts.

[@friendofringo606]

I want to thank you. It is very difficult to express what this grand experiment is. The Christ within cannot be institutionalized, made into a religion or a form of government. But can we live it, show it to each other, inch our way along until the one beside us feels it?

[@susanbuck477]

This is very good talk.

[@websterroger]

Thank you for reminding us of these things. I think that I will be thinking of this talk during in my daily routine to examine my actions and others as well. I needed this as a person who feels that he was born without the ability of faith. But, I am a product of the civilization that I have been born in and need to appreciate it and fight for it. I will continue to do that as long as I live.

[@winros]

I'm here, just do my research going down the rabbit hole.I wanna know the truth!

[@smartbiz888]

Truly a view of the state of states and people I can appreciate... As a nonaligned Christian (I belong to no church but have a personal relationship with Yahusha and Yahwah) I see evil on every side... This world is getting worse and moving towards the end stage... Recommend that every person do their due diligence and study the books surrounding the Bible (as well as the Bible)... I have, and am convinced that there are deceptions at many levels we live with today. But, the points raised are valid... plenty of bad people on all sides... 🤫🤫🤫

[@RickyRay-do9cp]

The 21st century's most desirable currency is impunity. Impunity, the sadist's conception of freedom, mainstreamed and marketed as the new American Dream. ~Sarah Kendzior~

[@psyopswitch]

there is still very much a sl*ve trade in Saudi Arabia, the the Sudanese workers hve their passports taken. you should really look into it

[@cheryldingley4546]

Thank you for this bringing these important truths to our awareness.

[@StevieWonders2020]

Thank you for another wonderful thought provoking "essay" that needed to be "-sayed". If it is of interest to you, could you sometime talk about: The fact that Christianity was apparently a Jewish sect; 2] the Indian rule Ashoka and his transformation which to me seems like an early glimmer of "human rights"; 3) The Englishman Wilberforce and his part in the beginnings of anti slavery. He was a very interesting character to me....???? Thanks

[@markantrobus8782]

See "The Sermon on the Mount" by Horace Marriott (1925) for the Hebrew Wisdom Sayings roots of The Sermon. Such ethics are universal and Buddhist teachings preceded Christianity. The bhakti movement in India etc. Then there was Stoicism, etc.

[@SarahWanders]

I hate to tell you this, but you are very much a Christian, just not the fairy-tale variety. In a world that seems to be darkening it's encouraging to hear your message. Thank you.

[@27july1954]

May I pass on my compliments. I find your world views very sound. For my part I am now Agnostic and have been for decades. I have not always been Agnostic, and though you may find my journey interesting, it is perhaps better left for another time. I am Agnostic in that it does not matter. It does not matter if there is or is not a God/Deity/Supreme/Being or nothing. Whether there is or isn't has nothing to do with me. But I cannot 'prove' it one way or the other. I do not have a problem with that. I pop that into the Filing Cabinet Shelf Labelled "Don't Know". And then get on with life. But there is one thing I am sure about, I will find out (or not) when the time comes, and there is nothing I can do about it. I mean existentially it sucks. There is so much beauty and wonder to explore and so little time, but then there is nothing I can do about that either. Where does Jesus come into this? Quite simply, if I were to try and sum up in a few words what his message was, it is respect your World (Universe) and all those in it, treat others as you would be treated, and be a decent person. All I would add to that is leave the planet a better place for all our children. As a rational person, what I am struggling to comprehend is how so many voted for Trump for reasons they can't really explain, or the explanation makes no sense, or worse, like the "I know Trump is a Dictator but...". Leaving the hardcore MAGA and Religious nutjobs aside as they are nasty people, most people want to get on amicably most of the time don't they? Where did all this hate come from? I don't think that's normal. And Jesus' message is anti-hate. Always. Because it never ends well. Never. It destroys. Peace and Love builds and creates. It's what people want if they did but realise it. Peace and love and wishing you all the very best. Hope I have't bored you. Chris

[@MrStacy1974]

For me Jesus' teachings could be summed up with "don't be a d*ck".

[@judygaleinchapelhill]

💚🕊💚

[@anamericaninamerica]

It did need to be said.

[@walterdominicis2818]

Everyone of all walks are always looking for something or someone to persecute in order to forgive themselves for seeking they're own survival at any cost. There ain't no one man better than the other. Some of us be worse but no one is better. Awareness is the only real meaning of God. And it's by the grace of time that I know that there by the grace God here we go.

[@BirthingBetterSkills]

PLEASE SHARE THIS FAR AND WIDE Help organize a Country wide … City/State WALK OUT OF WORK March before Jan 20. Have hundreds of thousands of undocumented workers WALK OUT OF WORK and march everywhere. Show people the empty fields, pack houses, building sites, no childcare, cleaning, gardening. WALK OUT OF WORK together! We must ‘work towards’ and ‘work for’ and not ‘fight’. And if people are going to be deported, organize mass proud exodus together Take charge of the situation.

[@HariPrasad-uy9dj]

Mr. Schaeffer: Thanks for your reflections on how early Christianity (as reflected in the Epistles of Paul) placed value on the weak and poor, those who don't have power or position or social status. Jesus, according to the scholars who research that period in Jewish history, was a wandering preacher of the imminent irruption of divine power in the world to overturn the social and political order. He was an apocalyptic prophet who taught the coming end of the world as people knew it, by repenting of their sins and worldliness, forsaking their families and wealth, and following him to share what they all had in common while they waited for this new world to dawn. He was wrong, his prophecy didn't come true. But Paul had his own visions of Jesus, however one cares to explain them, and became a follower although he had never known him. He brought the message to both Jews (like the other disciples who stayed loyal after Jesus was executed for inciting rebellion and posing as the rightful king of the Jews, the anointed one or Messiah) and pagans sympathetic to the Jewish idea of a single god not represented by any image. Such pagans were the Christians who survived and went on to spread the religion, hardly any Jews were persuaded - which is why Paul turned to the others in the first place. The new religion initially attracted slaves and the humble, but also some Romans from distinguished families, as Roman historians (such as Tacitus in his life of Nero) suggest. By a little after 300 AD, Constantine, one of the claimants to empire, son of a Christian woman and her pagan husband, defeated his rivals, and began to favor Christianity. In fact, rather than the Roman Empire becoming Christian, Christianity became Romanized in the model of the Empire. So from that time, there has been an uneasy coexistence between the values of the early Christian ideals of sharing between all believers, humility and simplicity, and exalting the lowly on one hand, and on the other, the pomp, power, splendor, and organizational strength of the Roman imperial tradition. The conflict has never been resolved. Other religions too have such divisions. For example, Hinduism has its cruel and inequitable history of mistreatment of the so-called "untouchables" excluded from the four major castes. But there are also Hindu traditions of god showing special favor to one such "untouchable" in a personal revelation. Brahmans, the highest caste, have also been known to perform the (supposedly polluting) last rites for an "untouchable" - at the cost of losing caste, being expelled, and subject to eternal condemnation. They have been praised by society. So yes, there's no need to be either very upset by Dawkins and other atheistic critics of religion, or to be very religious in an institutional sense. It's true that in the name of religion great crimes have been committed. If you read the biography of Voltaire, you will find he attacked the Catholic Church of his time because of the of the official torture-murder of a Protestant as part of the church's persecution of "heretics". He, and others of the time, like David Hume the great skeptic and philosopher, and Edward Gibbon, the great historian, were influenced by their faith in reason, rather than religious tradition, to pursue the welfare of humanity. There was nothing wrong with that.

[@ChristianCatboy]

As a transgender Christian, I have no qualms about condemning Kinsey. I decided to "eunuchize myself for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven," in accordance with Mat 19:12 & 5:29, and Gal 3:28. Gender theory is based on science, and isn't in opposition to Christian ethics. As a eunuch, the law of marriage doesn't apply to me, but of course I'm still bound by the higher Law of Love. "In Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value; the only thing that matters is faith expressing itself in love."

[@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648]

To add encouragement: eunuch could have a double meaning in this context. Eunuchs were historically entrusted with high responsibility in kingdoms, because they couldn't be plied or compromised by "woman troubles." Eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven in that sense would be unusually dedicated because of the relative lack of distraction. This was a matter that Paul paid attention to when advising men not to be overly hasty to marry, but (at least implied) feel the spiritual situation out as to the intensity of the call of God.

[@ChristianCatboy]

@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 Good point. Some eunuchs in Greco-Roman culture were more like what we now call drag queens and street hookers, though (cf. the Galli). It's still a "shocking" teaching, if not explained away as referring strictly to celibacy.

[@DiNY-u9k]

There is a difference between religion and spirituality. Jesus taught spirituality and spoke against religion. Religion is man's viewpoints, misconceptions and desires. Jesus taught love for all of mankind. He taught equality. Men teach hate, greed and selfishness. I am a Christian and I am on the left. I am a Socialist. Capitalism is greed and selfishness. It is the opposite of the truth of God. It is a lie. It is always amazing to me that most people on the left are against Christianity. They are against the lies of men, not at all what Jesus taught. Jesus actually came to explain what was from God and what was not from God but from men. He taught that many of the Hebrew scriptures were not from God. They were from men. Jesus said that the Bible is NOT the inerrant word of God. Then, Paul said many things that went against the teachings of Jesus. He established the Roman viewpoint which was against true Christianity including being against women. Let me repeat that God is love, never hate, greed, selfishness or power seeking. God has been lied about for millennia. It is unfortunate that few know the truth. The truth is that men have blamed God for the lies of men.

[@deirdremorris9234]

Agree.

[@mayhu3282]

You cannot possibly know what god is or isn't. As for the teachings of Jesus, they're just basic ethics that anyone can adhere to and which many philosophers had explained before him. The golden rule, which is basically what the teachings of Jesus boil to, is much older than those 1st century writings. Two thousand years before Christ, it had already been expressed in the Egyptian religion. As in India, in the Tamil tradition, in Ancient Greece, and in general, it's something most people intuitively know to be a good recommendation for life. If you cast aside scriptures, organized religion, mythology borrowed from other civilizations (virgin birth, violent death, resurrection), all that's left is that basic understanding of not doing onto others what you wouldn't like others to do to you.

[@SandraGoff-t9c]

As we watch more and more people be sucked into the trump cult, Opus Dei, New Apostolic Reformation, we must stick to the values such as kindness and compassion, courage and bravery, and the willingness to live them.

[@robertwheeler1158]

But where do human rights come from if God doesn't exist? What makes anything right or wrong?

[@jeniferwatton7994]

I remember Ranald McAuley speaking at this level. Very interesting to see how you turned out. What was it that turned you away from the fundamentalist, elitist, L'Abri crowd?

[@winros]

Remember when people invited priests over for Sunday dinner🤔

[@humblethinker8493]

Sad to see Schaeffer being hoodwinked into Holland’s abuse of history, kinda like Metaxas on Bonhoeffer.

[@jeniferwatton7994]

Are you from the family of Francis Schaeffer who began the L'Abri fellowships? in Switzerland, England?

[@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648]

I can get almost anywhere you go, Frank, taking the God I have embraced as a premise and using reason. The only place I cannot get is "atheist." I will vigorously deny wrong concepts of God, even call them doctrines of demons if the problems are severe enough to call attention to that, but I cannot get to "atheist." It is impossible. This is the starkest difference; most other differences are matters of nuance away from the positions of modern liberal Christians. (The question of what we used to call sexual abnormalities is one of these. I affirm that a Christian can pass through a phase with these, just as with other things that fall short of the glory of God. They are permitted by God in order to teach lessons. A Christian can't ride such a horse into eternity, however. He or she will be dismounted from it and put on a better one.) And even the professed "atheist" that you are says at some point to followers of "doctrines of demons" that "Hey, this 'Jesus' you are following is not the Jesus you think it is." You just did it here. Are you sure you are an actual atheist, Frank? Or simply burned out on the dishonest show that your father had set you up to perform, but something of Jesus still resonates in your heart and drives you to righteous indignation? Yes, I was disgusted and head shaking at this situation. Sirens were screaming when the former archbishop said "We heard nothing more from police we referred his case to; it's resolved." Ummmm, no. Actually, eeeeeeeeeeek, no! A serious spiritual look and counseling needed to follow encompassing the reported molestee and the reported molester. Things might have to transpire that might wreck a secular legal case but won't wreck a spiritual case with a directive to sort it out before Christ with mediation, and in the meantime be kept out of temptation. The kids were failed in that the offender wasn't diverted, and they weren't comforted and assured in the Lord. Not every assault suffered has to be a permanent life-wrecking trauma, but their cases have to be treated with the utmost spiritual seriousness. The offender was failed in that he wasn't diverted, and shown to a greater dedication to the Lord. The church was failed in the anemic, Christ-bereft, secular response. Christ was snubbed in the failure to bring an embrace of His Spirit to bear.

[@winros]

John Money's too!!!!

[@kevinschiller1749]

I'm more of an Easter Bunny dude

[@grittybunny]

I don't see the problem in believing that decent and kind ethics and morality can evolve independently in different societies. I might be more inclined to assert that one society believing it is the sole creator and thus a sort of "owner" of decent and kind ethics and morality is a likely path to immoral behavior by that society. Frank even contradicts himself here: 28:36 "That idea was unknown until the teachings of Jesus Christ," vs. 24:04 "If you study-for instance, as we read in The Old Way by Elizabeth Marshall Thomas-what actual indigenous life was like in Africa and the Kalahari, that existed for 880,000 years, that she studied in the 1950s with her parents before any other contact with the outside world: They had a very secure idea about marriage, and it wasn't polygamous. It was something that your Protestant Evangelical conservative would recognize-heaven forfend-that *there is such a thing as natural law* ."

[@lauraestrada7279]

@Frank Schaefer where can I email you and your wife Jeanie for some none Christian grief counseling but with some humanism in their guidance. I need help especially after the election. Thank you Mr. Schaefer. I feel alone in my search of how to process my grief NOW.

[@ApPersonaNonGrata]

I strongly with your interpretation of those texts and that history. However, I realize religious minds feel like they need "Father's" permission to grow. And so to facilitate that growth, they need to read modern moral progress back onto the pages where the imagine "God" speaks, so that "God" will keep looking at recent moral progress and saying "that's really what I meant all along". So I'm cool with it.

[@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648]

I'd say it is the Son's encouragement, leading, and inspiration to grow. The Son, in turn, already knows what the Father wants and won't lead wrongly.

[@ApPersonaNonGrata]

@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 If you're doing the mental thing that I described ... you wouldn't be able to realize it. In fact, this is a common topic at Dan McLellan's channel. I understand that you 'read' the things you're talking about. But language works differently in the mind than how religious people think it works. To a very large extent, those stories "say" what the reader's own mind spontaneously projects. This creates the illusion that we engaged in a fair and objective reading of those texts. Our best available tool for approximating probable meanings is to defer to qualifies scholars. We can also weigh that against our own reading and cognitions. I do. And I encourage others to do the same. But we should keep this in mind: People with a religious investment into any particular reading ... are incapable of objectivity, regardless of their credentials.

[@timtrewyn453]

Sounds like he still sees value in following the teaching of Jesus, but takes the view that neither Jesus nor his father has come in some fashion to make their home with him in response.

[@BarnaliD]

What does it mean " the last shall be first and the first shall be last"? Can someone explain?

[@lindarichards4408]

Maybe equality?

[@davidvaughn7752]

God/Gods are a hustle. Man's greatest invention is the acknowledged institutional affirmation of the divine.

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

I think if you ever came on one of my shows we'd actually get along very well even though I'm a very conservative Christian protestant. But I'm not the typical Protestant because I keep Sabbath I think 99% of Christianity is really messed up and just following the Roman Catholic Church. Plus unlike a lot of other so-called conservative Republicans I've actually had people like Jared Beck on my show to discuss issues

[@PatrickThreewit]

I'm surprised that you don't mention the sexual problems with the wealthiest church in the United States as well as one of the wealthiest in the world. I don't understand how you can point to the sayings and teachings of Jesus in the Bible when there is no original Bible to compare with current Bible teachings. How do we know what were the words of Jesus? We have lots of versions and when I attended a Baptist SS I found they were all different in the wording. I believe in Jesus, his existence, but how can I know which teachings are really his?

[@grittybunny]

24:54 Does he misspeak here? He says "We live in a civilization that gives a place to science and fact. For instance-sorry everybody but-gender is not assigned at birth. And then I quickly add that people who feel that they've been born in the wrong body have every right to be called by whatever pronoun they wish, and we have the duty as people who come from that Christian civilization called Christendom to herald them as the next frontier of human and civil rights, and work with them." I can't tell if he means to say: There are only two genders as in: "Sorry everybody but gender is not *assigned* at birth," meaning one is born with one's gender, vs. Gender is not solely defined by reproductive anatomy as in: "Sorry everybody but gender is *not* assigned at birth," meaning that gender reveals itself as a person develops, and therefore can't be assigned just by looking at genitalia. What he says after: "And then I quickly add that people who feel that they've been born in the wrong body have every right," seems to imply that it is the first.

[@rursus8354]

This former Atheist and now Gnostic (the religion) beg to differ. I'll give the Atheists right here: Jesus did not invent human rights. It was presented as such in the New Testament, but it is obviously a superposition on the Jewish rebel Jesus, that some called Messiah. The New Testament contains a poison pill, the Book of Revelation, and the humanist reinterpretation of Jesus (the Synoptic Gospels), that in my estimation originates with Papias of Hierapolis, a Greek. Social activism and the defence of the weakest doesn't originate anywhere else than in "the blue", that is: the human nature. It recurred among the brothers Gracchi, in Cyrus the Great, and in other religions. Thinking that Jesus and a doctrine made us good, is unnatural Abrahamite thinking: we cannot become good, unless we are repressed by an Almighty-God-religion. The Atheist is that humans are good in themselves. The Gnostic thinking is similar: we are sparks from the Real God (who is not the creator), who is good: our inner spark tells us what is true, not a book, nor a doctrine, nor a church, nor a "Blessed Leader".

[@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648]

Don't blame Jesus for people's malfeasance.

[@clifover]

I'm no historian, but, I find it difficult to believe that before Christ there were no defenders of children from predatory sexual abuse by adults. If so, then all children would have been fair game, and all would have been abused? History mostly only records the acts of the powerful, the rest of humanities acts and feelings were and are, ignored, unknown. Just saying.

[@SockPuppetSeminary]

🙂

[@sampsonlittle7368]

Why do just about all the atheists want to talk about Jesus? The flesh wars against the spirit. That’s what the atheists are doing. Why don’t you just come over to the Spirit(Jesus) and you will not have that war going on inside you. With out Jesus there is no peace. With Jesus there is peace.

[@barrymoore4470]

It is not true that Judaism and Christianity have an exclusive claim to ethics, or even ethics that can be widely accepted today. The Indian religion Jainism, for example, is the most non-violent religion in history, and some variation of the Golden Rule can be found in several traditions, including Confucianism. Confucius himself taught that virtue is its own reward.

[@judygaleinchapelhill]

I think Frank is emphasizing what influenced western civilization?

[@barrymoore4470]

@@judygaleinchapelhill I can certainly agree that the Judeo-Christian traditions are fundamental to Western civilization as we know it today--for both good and ill. My contention is that the Western tradition is not necessarily the most enlightened perspective in human history, and it certainly has no monopoly on virtue.

[@judygaleinchapelhill]

@ Agree!

[@hermesproject111]

I don't see you as any kind of atheist. You know quite well that there is a profound divine force at work in the universe. You just resent hypocrites. Cheers from Sacramento!

[@rickcampanella4254]

Jesus never founded a state run religion. I also didn't believe in hell until I found myself going there. If you don't believe in Jesus and His word then you don't have the Holy Spirit that's call lost. Don't confuse Christ with Christianity. Catholicism has been a lie from the very beginning. Jesus was a Jew not catholic beast church . Church and state Catholicism and Islam and all apostate earthly churches. You can't disprove scripture by using scripture.

[@munbruk]

I don't think you have the true teachings of Jesus. Actually you might find the opposite of what you are claiming in the 4 biographies and Paul letters... The enlightenment put the Church in the closet in order to start thinking fairly.

[@cajunlesbian61649]

All religions are cults. I believe in Creator. We're all humans, no matter how different we look. We should *all* know better because we can see how different some animals look different but belong to the same species. Outward appearance doesn't change inner nature.

[@markantrobus8782]

Buddha was an atheist.

[@barrymoore4470]

Buddhism allows for the possibility of gods existing, but holds that the gods are as enmeshed in samsara (the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth) as any terrestrial being, and are inconsequential to enlightenment and liberation. It is possible to be both Buddhist and atheist.

[@markantrobus8782]

@barrymoore4470 Bodhi Zendo in Perumalmalai South India supported by Catholic Church. Catholic Church embodies conservative SCOTUS Opus Dei and free thinkers doing Zen meditation.

[@MichaelWizard-dt9ve]

It's a fifty fifty split with Jesus and his followers. Half good half bad teachings. They are on both sides of an issue. So no matter what they come out on the right side.

[@drrightlife]

I will hope Frank reads these comments. What he is acknowledging here is EXACTLY what his father, and Cornelius VanTil, and Rousas John Rushdoony, and Greg Bahnse, etc. have written about and advocated and lived in their lives. Frank knows this and cannot deny the Truth they proclaimed. The terrible error they made that we all condemm is their transferring the Royal Kingdom and Family of the Personal Creator, WHICH IS A SPIRITUAL IDENTITY, to a coerced and forced violation of the Divone Gift of Freefom in Volition to even choose to reject the Truth and Reality of the Most High Personal Creator, and to have to accept the inevitable consequences of accountability znd Judgment individually, which is why I personally, having been raised in a fundementalist christian home , had to reject the racist White nationalist supremacy of the wealthy over the poor. But in trying to find the Truth for myself, I learned that anyone not correctly connected to the One Who is Right Life giving is only free to deacay into darkness and deadness. So I knew that my own system condemned me, I needed a Savior, and then I believed in the Lord Jesus Who sacrificed Himself to give me Life forever. THANK YOU, LORD JESUS. It is absolutely Wrong and EBIL to coerce anyone into anything, BUT IT IS EQUALLY EVIL TO REFUSE TO KNOW BIBLE TRUTH ABOUT LORD JESUS AND TO KEEP THAT TRUTH FROM CONSIDERATION BY OTHERS WHOM GOD CREATED AND LOVES AS HE DOES US. Think about that, Frank, you need Jesus. Just believe in Him right now... it is not too late. The rest of your life and your eternal destiny depends on accepting the Truth.

[@RobotronOG]

No need to talk about a fictional character.

[@Plethorality]

So why are you here?

[@FloppityFlopFlop777]

Jesus is not a fictional character. All credible historians agree about his historicity.

[@jenna2431]

There is zero eyewitness record of Jesus. The accounts across the "gospels" don't match. They don't comport with the history. They don't align with a first century Jewish Torah observance. Jesus' teachings do not agree with Paul's. The teachings attributed to him are nothing new. Why discuss a Jesus that is hopelessly ridiculous?