This cEDH Top 4 Caught Me So Off Guard! | cEDH Top 16 Breakdown

[@ElSkizzle]

If the you read the keyword "whenever" in an ability, it is a triggered ability. (Keyword not meant as a keyword-ability such as haste, but as a concise indicator). So yeah, roaming throne for sure doubles kinnans extra mana.

[@TheSpiritombsableye]

Then what you meant was "key word", not "keyword". I wouldn't care so much but you cared enough to post, so thus I'll respond.

[@crppledizzle9374]

​@@TheSpiritombsableyewhat is this reddit ass hostility

[@TheGirthiestSausage]

@@TheSpiritombsableyeshut up

[@RonDollete]

Kinnan's mana generation isn't a replacement effect because it lacks the word "instead". But mana abilities don't go onto the stack.

[@bensawmiller3005]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@TheSpiritombsableye key·word noun a word or concept of great significance. Seems like he used it correctly. I don’t understand why you felt the need to reply with hostility and act like a child to a comment that is just pointing out the purpose of the inclusion of a card. Grow up, no need to nitpick others who do not need nitpicking, it comes off as immature and just makes you look like an asshole. Hope this helps. 👍

[@AbyssalVoyager]

Hey! Omnath Pilot here (Abyssal Voyager/The Abyss Watchers). Glad to see you enjoyed the spice. I was originally playing Kraum/Tevesh and got top16 in mythic lotus 2 with it, but switched off after a rough month following that. I got kinda lucky that about 2 weeks prior to this event, I randomly bumped into Spyzer also testing Omnath out right after I sleeved my version up, and after that it basically became us brewing this deck almost daily for 2 weeks. The deck functions on so many axes and can pivot on a whim, so its hard to gauge what line the pilot could be going for. Omnath is a fantastic advantage engine, along with providing mana storage to make our explosive windows even more powerful. However we dont need him, and can win just fine without him. We can match the strongest midrange grinds in the format. Ive had plenty of grind fests with Kinnan, TnK, and Tivit and have never felt outclassed. Honestly the addition of green giving kutzil makes it feel even easier to grind late. Also, hidden strength is that Omnath is rarely ever removed because its usually a waste of interaction to remove him, nor is he a target for clone effects usually. I can try to answer some single card discussion questions here, but this is already a really long comment, so if theres more questions, just ping me on discord, im in most of the main cedh servers. Peer/Naus/necro/beseech the mirror are all absolutely insane in this deck. Not only are they fairly easy to cast early thanks to dockside/lotho/smothering tithe, but they basically become free spells late game due to Omnaths mana storage. With the exception of Naus, the other 3 can also be tutored in response to the Omnath trigger to basically turn the tutors into dark rituals. Not mentioned, but angel's grace is secret mvp of this deck btw. Mana drain I did end up cutting for a mana dork to smooth out my early game a bit better, but this card is still solid as it can basically be a cabal ritual for us that doubles as a counterspell. Mox opal has weirdly never been turned off for me when it has mattered. Due to the treasure makers in this deck, having enough rocks never seems to be an issue. While this doesn't pertain to the deck itself, always makes my day seeing you chuckle at my decklist names. Love the content man, keep up the good work.

[@johnweinhandl8890]

Congrats on winning and promoting this list. I had played and brewed this awhile before. I really like the play pattern of top deck tutors and casting them with the help omnath. I might have to find you on discord to talk about certain cards. Again congrats on your performance

[@SuperNexus14]

First of all, the deck looks very sweet, congrats! Could you please explain why you are running a cradle? I have one lying around which I would love to use, but it just doesn't look like a creature based deck to me...

[@johnweinhandl8890]

@@SuperNexus14 it’s to store mana for the combo turn. I mean even if craddle can tap for 2 you’re in business

[@AbyssalVoyager]

​​@@SuperNexus14i waffle between a couple lands in that slot. Cradle, Otawara, E zone, and City of Traitors all can fit and provide alot of value to the list. Cradle/Traitors allow for extra mana gas with Omnath, Otawara is interaction, and Ezone gives flash, which is extremely powerful in a list like this.

[@CustomRevThe1AndOnly]

I’m the Tivit pilot: I played Urza over kitten as a top end card because my testing with kitten had been supbar + I wanted to go over the top of other players and figured 1-2 urza activations would help in late game if I wasn’t going for combos, plus the artifact creature beats aren’t nothing. I talked with some people from the Tivit discord after the event and they brought me back to kitten, but I played it in KaOs and never saw it + no board state would have been helped by it over say an urza. It’s nice to have the combo exist though. Idk I think it’s just dependent on what you expect the meta to be and I just didn’t think it mattered vs Kinnan or blue farm (not that urza mattered any more in those matchups either) But, if we’re in midrange soup hell then I want to play a lot more heaters in Tivit because he’s just a control deck like Atraxa Great video!

[@rustitg4808]

Not the pilot, but as far as the Lukka inclusion, it's moreso just to exile any 3 drop and hit Roaming Throne or Cavern Dragon. You could theoretically use it as card advantage, but the card is essentially reads "I'm a 5 mana roaming throne" since the card is that good we need more of it lol. Final Fortune is kinda the other interesting include. We have been discussing their specific list on the discord server (and I personally have been playtesting lukka in my own list) and it's overall interesting. Biggest thing would be seeing how they play the deck since lists matter more on playstyle than card choices. Love to see our queen doing well! January was a great month and hoping to keep it rolling!

[@SifSehwan]

I am not the most avid cEDH player, but you being so open-minded about new decks is refreshing. Too many other channels focus on what is best, what is correct. Thank you.

[@LoboGuarah]

The way that Sisay makes inf mana witout Emiel is through Ioreth + Sakashima (Ioreth Copy) untapping themselves and Selvala/Jegantha or any other human through Katilda's Dork Effect. Then the mana sink could be Shalai.

[@timothydalton2388]

Its my understanding that kinnan's mana ability is a trigger, and can therefore be doubled by roaming throne. im actually friends with wiley and we talked about this in discord, i think our main question actually wound up being whether it used the stack or was a mana ability

[@adambutt5137]

It is a mana ability, albeit a unique one, so it doesn't use the stack.

[@timothydalton2388]

@@adambutt5137 ya, thats what we wound up on if I recall, been a while though

[@syndicate5357]

​@adambutt5137 how is it a mana ability when it's a triggered ability?

[@adambutt5137]

@@syndicate5357 it is triggered but it doesn't have a target, it is triggered from a mana ability, and the ability itself makes mana. So it is triggered but it is in a way that doesn't use the stack.

[@ESPGuy19]

@@adambutt5137 Roaming Throne does give a second trigger of Kinnan's extra mana ability. Making the mana does not use the stack, but Kinnan's trigger does.

[@seaweedsoupmeowington9429]

just wanted to thank you for doing what you do! after watching a ton of your videos i entered my first cedh tournament and ended out fourth in the swiss and eighth overall! i went in there with your and rebells videos two games of cedh and a slight variation on your derevi list and im super happy with how i did! plus i had a ton of fun. Im super grateful i got reccomended your videos :)

[@seaweedsoupmeowington9429]

in a related note slotting cryptic coat in popped into my head post tournament and has yet to leave

[@willardgibbs1898]

I have been playing a 5 color omnath deck in my pod for like a month now. I recently took out swat/fierce because omnath is not a guarantee or necessity. It can top deck tutor in response to his trigger though so if he is out he can make peer into the abyss pretty cheap, as well as necropotence and beseech the mirror. I recently added rocco for worldy tutor so i can get a cheap dockside/abolisher/thassa battlefield tutor. Mine is also a bit heavier on artifacts, few 2 color talismans to help with consistency of playing the commander. Definitely a deck that can win early or play the long game.

[@davidew345]

This is my first time hearing about a top 13 cut and I gotta say I’m a fan

[@diegoruizcabanas8145]

I'm pretty sure the point of playing Omnath early is to accumulate unspent mana tgat is turn into balck and play one of the heavy black mana card advantage cards like AdNaus, PITA and Necro.

[@issacharlane4003]

One other advantage to omnath is the mana. You can get him out t2/3 then turn all unused mana into black and on your next turn drop a ton.

[@koreyg8552]

Been playing omnath since it released, it draws card and makes mana, easy peer deck and overall banking mana for when you want it is bonkers, that’s why it runs few artifacts, he’s stockpiling black mana to use after necro or ad naus resolves

[@ecos889]

That Grayhadrone mention was really surprising. Like I love her as a Villain, but never figured out how to most effectively use her as corruption counters are so narrow so it's crazy someone figured out how to make her good at the highest level of play which brings a smile to my heart. As I can picture a lot of cEDH players going WTF why is this here, not doing anything about it and then it goes off as intended in the deck. But yeah in sissay it's effectively is steal target opponents wincon piece to do the thing with it which is actually super hype AF. No idea why I did not see it lol.

[@nicholasstauffer6304]

Great content man. Been following you since we met at Silicon Dynasty! (The Yuriko guy that fumbled game 3) Keep up the great work!!

[@Shodokan123]

As a magda pilot their list is interesting since it seems to look to use lukka as a means of closing out games if whatever gets exiled doesn't get killed before his ability resolves since it can only find RT or Cavern-Hoard really like you said if you use 3 drops, and 2 drops have a good chance of getting you a "go find your dockside" while still having the ability to hit a few other decent 3 drops as well. The downside of this is that you don't really get backup lines like welder/elixir + twinshot sniper. They are on more 2 drop dwarves and slightly more artifact dwarves than most of the midrange lists while also not really being on some of the more turbo oriented cards. Stuff like Final Fortune is very gimmicky in this kind of deck to me, but it can have merit as this is primarily a combo deck and there will be plenty of times where you want to try to force that winning amount of treasures or try to win after a successful counter war. That being said it also means that adding extra counter-spells makes more sense for this variant since most of the lists tend to only be on REB now and not really sporting Pyro or Tibalt's as much. If they want to protect their FF they kinda need some extra things to potentially have as protection to back that up when cast or whatever it is they may have to deal with to stop their win attempt on their FF turn. Cauldron being in the list still is also something most pilots have gotten off of since while its nice to be able to get a ranger captain every turn (if you have the creature base for it) or set up a win with your welder in yard they aren't on Battered Golem which is a required card for that combo line. It being a bowmaster meta might be a reason for it? But i personally don't think thats enough reason to use it. Otherwise the only other notable things i can see are the lack of MDFC and adding a few things in like 3-ball, soulless jailer (as backup hate for breach if graff cage is removed or something) and thorn (most of the sphere effects are not used much, damping sphere seems to be the most common one still run).

[@tiredguy709]

I run Magda with cauldron in my list and I find it to be pretty interesting. I also run Kiki jiki as a straight up value piece that can also combo off without Magda. Kiki, liquid coat, clock and a dockside (I know that’s a lot of pieces but still it’s an option). The real value comes in copying a dwarf to get a 5th treasure, or copying a dockside to win. With cauldron I can also exile Kiki and turn battered golem into an infinite hasty token creator by copying itself.

[@maxxlanglois]

Love your content, you're slowly getting me into cEDH. Speaking of which, do you do any form of "deck doctor"? Working on a spicy brew and would like your opinion. Wondering about pricing etc.

[@ComedIanMTG]

That's often what I do for coaching :)

[@maxxlanglois]

@@ComedIanMTG how do I get in touch? Via discord?

[@shoeboo-d9p]

❤️‍🔥 content as always! Hopefully the moving process will go smoothly 🤞

[@michaelcasson4824]

What are your thoughts on the Grand Architect Pili Pala combo in cEDH?

[@Hypersloth369]

17:35 says it’s the lightest planes walker decks when there is New England Clam Chowder with only one.

[@TH-dg2mm]

Are there any monogreen lists that ever compete against this sea of black and blue? Just a simple Asuza/monogreen/combo lover here.

[@jessesandburg]

"These warriors dont blow 3-1 lead" LMFAO

[@Splocketeer]

Glad you liked that one lol

[@ChristianKleineidam]

Loreth of the Healing House + Sakashima (on Loreth) + Samut + Any legendary mana producer + Mount Doom is a win.

[@edvinnordkvist9179]

Would love to know how Roaming Throne works in Kinnan? I mean, if it adds mana how good is it in the deck? Is it worth the slot? 😮

[@kmopm777]

Hey Ian, question. Would you say making a heavy control orvar deck that revolves around copying others rhystic studied. Could be viable in the new meta?

[@krisvonderpool7265]

As an Orvar pilot, I can tell you, you are board police and just making extra lands whenever you have free mana until it's time to go off. It's a good deck in a small event, but if you're playing a real tournament, I wouldn't advise Orvar, as you're forced to time almost every game.

[@kmopm777]

@@krisvonderpool7265 Yeah I know that's how is usually played. Twitch orvar. But I wonder if something more twiddle over focusing more in coping Rhysteric studies could work in the current meta

[@issacharlane4003]

Also, the japanese have a solution for drawgate. They use a point system. Recommend this.

[@Turn2Ugin]

Guys do I build Pako and Haldan, Edric, or Narset?

[@fosterdawson7339]

as someone who's definitely not biased, Pako Haldan

[@ComedIanMTG]

Which narset?

[@Turn2Ugin]

@@ComedIanMTG The sick ass extra turns one lol

[@ComedIanMTG]

@@Turn2Ugin I definitely lean more towards Pako Haldan personally just because it's not as much of a nightmare to win in turns as Narset haha

[@Turn2Ugin]

@@ComedIanMTG word up!

[@SeanWiley-p3t]

Kinnan tech. Roaming throne, names human, adds mana which makes grim monolith go infinite. So now we can flip into infinite mana. Nyxbloom and now gadgeteer do same thing. Throne also doubles trophy mage etbs so now it tutors basalt and mirror. Walking Ballista. One more thing to filter colorless into a win. Also should we flip into infinite mana can be instant speed win utilizing soul caldron. Sanctum weaver: so good think real hard about it and you’ll get it. Lands: overrated.

[@pugin8134]

How do you get the price of each section of the deck on moxfield (example creatures $399) ?

[@ComedIanMTG]

There are a bunch of toggleable features on the top of Moxfield

[@FreePete919]

Infinite colorless with Kinnan and basalt wins the game with walking ballista in hand or on the battlefield. Its not meant to be hit off of Kinnan activation.

[@ESPGuy19]

Roaming Throne does not give Magda 2 tutor triggers from sacrificing 5 treasures

[@Enf1nit]

He has said this twice now so I would like to know

[@ESPGuy19]

@@Enf1nit It does not give two tutors. I don't know if Ian is familiar enough with Roaming Throne or Magda to know that and he is just assuming it enables two tutors. Roaming Throne only gives you additional instances of triggered abilities. Magda's ability to tutor is an activated ability.

[@deadshot1313]

Saw a wild Kinnan list on there 😂

[@BAdCommander]

Being trying to learn to play kinnan. No clue how to mulligan with it

[@ComedIanMTG]

I have a video on it, you should check it out

[@shaded3313]

Why do people play tidespout tyrant over Hullbreaker horror?

[@Team_F6]

Couldn't agree more. Make a Top13 cut. I finished 1st at the boil going into Top 16 and got eliminated. Felt really rough. Also, the other side to that with the draws. They are the downfall of the format, if not fixed

[@syndicate5357]

Just do away with draws or change the point structure to the old 8 points possible per pod

[@Dubbios]

Displacer on tivit is just a win more card... Tivit is becoming more and more a good stuf control esper deck, and kitten doesn't do anything by itself.

[@BAdCommander]

Loving this deck.

[@ChristianKleineidam]

Ian: Complains about a tournament that's set up in a way to disencentise players to draw by pairing people with less wins with people who have more wins. Also Ian: Complains when a tournament doesn't do anything to disencentise players to draw.

[@TripsAhoy]

Nice! ❤❤❤

[@williamhudgel7499]

[@igiwarcraft]

Man, meta is getting stale... kinnans, blue farms everywhere, coupled with a couple of najeela, magda, sisay, tivit, tayam,... sad. Couple of flukes here and there, but that's about it. Man, I guess the only one that is somewhat surprising is the omnath, but it's really just 5c goodstuff, otherwise nothing upsetting. I'd at least like to see some hot takes or something, but it's just... depressing.