Overrated EDH Cards from 2023 | EDHRECast 304

[@elcapitanofthemtn]

I feel like another aspect to consider with the Ojer Taq versus the Mondrak debate is that Ojer Taq is *only* creature tokens versus Mondrak which can double Clues, Foods, Treasures, etc which I feel is also a big distinction dependent on the deck.

[@dementievatz]

Exactly the comment I was going to add!

[@MrBLAAHHHHHHHHHHH]

@@dementievatzExactly the response I was going to add!

[@jessesandburg]

Agreed. Thats why Mondrak is way more busted and versatile

[@fgzgeimv8u]

it is also good for redundancy, there are not that many cards with this effect for decks without access to green

[@user-yy1nb2iu7z]

also regarding the comparison to fiery emancipation/gratuitous violence is also unfair as fiery is any source while gratuitous is only creature

[@paullloyd9331]

Y'all are nuts, regarding Lotho. Card is so good. Not only is a generically strong value piece, it becomes a synergy piece in any deck that likes tokens, artifacts, or losing life for gain. I don't see what's not to like. Also, in my casual games, after about turn 3 or 4 people are very often double spelling most turns.

[@bryanleblanc5648]

Yep. Lotho is a cEDH staple at this point. Now, it may be worse in low-powered casual games sure, but so is Monologue Tax then. "Monologue Tax is better than Lotho because you don't lose a life" is a terrible take. "A piece that's in your list to provide incremental value isn't worth it..." so Smothering Tithe and Rhystic Study aren't worth running? It's not about incremental value, it's about overall value, and Lotho pays for itself almost immediately. It's 10x better than Monlogue Tax, with the only real downside being you need to be in orzhov+ to play it

[@twistofdeath]

Yeah, every time I use him, he average 2 treasures a rotation. One of the best 2 drops in my Shanid legends deck. The fact that you can trigger it on your own makes it leagues above monolog. One life per treasures is a great rate too.

[@zackkelley2940]

The important difference between Monologue Tax and Lotho is that YOU can trigger Lotho yourself. The 2cmc as opposed to 3cmc is ALSO impactful. Not to mention you're in Orzhov so you're likely gaining that life back and then some just from all the lifelink/extort/etc that's incidentally on half the things in your deck.

[@sunbathermtg]

Lotho is huge, I have a sneaky suspicion the hosts haven't played the card enough to really see it's potential. Surprised frankly because it's really good in Thalisse and I know that Joey and I both love that deck!

[@dasfabelwesen]

Nuts indeed.

[@justinwelsh9367]

Another thing to consider about lotho is that it's two mana. Also I played it last night in my Carmen, cruel skymarcher deck and it did work. Sacrificing the treasure gets my life back and puts a counter on Carmen, absolutely busted.

[@OneoftheVoice]

Agreed Lotho has done work for me and I’m excited to put it into my legendary party deck

[@JonReid01]

46:16 i want a full episode on thia topic ASAP! "Your decks only have so many slots for this kind of effect" an episode for something about how many support cards are too many or something

[@blaaaarrrrgMTG]

Joey is right about Breach the Multiverse. The view he has that others dont is that of a graveyard player on potentially either side of the card. If you are a graveyard player, casting this spell feels AMAZING, but if you are a graveyard player and an opponent plays this it can be terrifying. Sure, you're fueling my yard, but you also get to cherry-pick the best thing out of it first and most of those targets are going to be powerful ETBs. Even worse is if I know you have it before you cast it, because then I'm forced to choose between advancing my game and sandbagging to not fuel your blowout card

[@altromonte15]

Yeah, Dana's argument makes little sense to me. If you have an opponent playing a GY deck and they mill something strong... You just take it. Breach is a value piece that always hits, rise is a wincon. Doesn't make much sense to compare them

[@jonathanmunhoz3000]

100% agree. I've took Rise of the Darkrealms out of my Scarab God deck to put Breach. The difference from 9 to 7 mana is huge, and I've yet to cast it and not win a game with it. It takes it from a card that's cast in a turn where everyone's board progressed/everyone has answers/it's too late to cast, to a legit gamewinning bomb that comes out of nowhere. The fact you also reanimate plainswalkers is the cherry on top. Rise also doesn't mill, so it depends on other players using graveyards or needing for key creatures to die to use it. If you're on a heavy graveyard meta, sure, Rise is better. But if not, Breach has to me proven to be much more impactful and much less conditional.

[@grantmurdock7385]

Agreed 100% Breach rules. I get only the argument for Sepulchral Primordial because being a creature does mean shenanigans... but Breach never disappointed.

[@yocowme]

@@altromonte15agreed and saying just play a spell that costs two more mana isnt convincing

[@weirdo82]

​@@yocowme I agree with this, but wanted to add that they(this channel) has made comments *against* certain cards simply because a comparable card was a few/couple mana *cheaper.*

[@humusmcgumus1394]

I feel that Hoarding Broodlord gets played more often than you’d expect due to its budget deck flexibility, it’s only around a dollar ATM in comparison to other black tutor card prices. Additionally, its efficiency in comparison to the cheaper black tutor cards plays a role in why people would learn to this card.

[@vioussy]

Play this card in my ayara widow of the realm deck and it is so perfect. Tutor a damage doubler or tripler, get in an attack and dome someone for 16 or 24 next turn

[@Lucarioguild7]

As a budget player I'm happy they're underselling it, for casual it's low-key one of the best black tutors we've gotten in years. The longer everyone keeps overlooking this card the better 😉

[@7uxedomask]

Hording broodlord also gets played because it wins the game with saw in half and a 2 piece combo. It’s played in ALOT of Cedh decks

[@uitrigfk]

what? lotho is so good. you can go off in a low curve deck. it’s amazing in my Eriette deck where i’m slinging auras everywhere.

[@TheSassaboss]

Lotho take is a bad take

[@RadicalPrion]

Yeah I have Lotho in 2 decks where it really shines (Abzan food / Halflings with cards like Academy Manufactor or Jaheira etc. and Esper artifacts / reanimating small creatures), and I have others where I think it would do well too. I think without the extra synergies it's fine or 'good enough', but not where I'd be looking to buy more copies for my mostly budget decks

[@hanschristopherson8056]

I think matt just assumes it’s like monologue tax when you being able to trigger it is a huge difference

[@dr00ness]

also lotho is not at all expensive. it's like a $3-4 card and has been since like august

[@RadicalPrion]

@@dr00ness for some of us that is 'expensive' when we're talking about a cardboard hobby 🤷‍♂️

[@nbblerxc]

One big thing that seems to have been overlooked with breach compared to sepulcher and rise is that the latter two NEED things in opponents graveyards to reanimate where breach creates those targets with the mill.

[@theicarusgambit6953]

Absolutely. I run a decent reanimator package in my Henzie, but I've swapped out Rise for Breach so I have that Kass reanimate when I get some grave hate. It fills the grave for me. Very helpful.

[@Blacklodge_Willy]

Overall a great card honestly. Get to most likely do something post Bajuka Bog/ exile abilities.

[@willsong4]

I agree also breach gets 4 creatures rather than the 3 from sepulchral

[@teradul2480]

It has been twice now that Dana has made the "I just made one of those up and you didn't catch it" joke, and I think it should be this year's running gag - and that Joey and Matt should immediately try to guess the fake when it comes up.

[@Blacklodge_Willy]

Oh I'd love that to continue lol

[@ElmoTheRed]

I am with Joey on Breach the Multiverse. It is bonkers when you cast this. Never have been sad when casting this. Skrelv's Hive is one that I think is overrated. Having the creatures not be able to block is huge. I think Matt understated it a bit as I think all of the flip over praetors are overrated and dont play as well as some might think.

[@jlaw131985]

I actually like Vorinclex in my Agatha deck. His flip is great if it’s super cheap.

[@jadegrace1312]

Urabrask is quite strong as a commander tbh

[@51gunner]

I've played with a few of the flip-praetors, they're weird but cool. I can see the Elesh Norn / Argent Etchings not fitting super well into a lot of white decks - the defensive stuff on her front side isn't bad, a 3/5 vigilance for 2WW isn't bad, and the saga is... okay? It does put 5x 2/2s on the battlefield but it's hard to build to more upside than that, incubators aren't super-well supported beyond that. Chapter 2 is strong, but then chapter 3 is an awkward wrath that wants you to be mostly Phyrexians. Jin-Gitaxias / Great Synthesis I'm building as a commander with the goal of emptying my deck for a Laboratory Maniac / Jace / or Thoracle win. I'll see how he plays, but being a card draw source in his own right with a payoff for card draw in the card draw color seems like it'll be playable. Sheoldred / True Scriptures is hard to enable from the command zone, but for any Dimir+ deck that has access to mill effects, she is utterly oppressive, a complete "remove me or this game is OVER" threat. ETB edict for nontoken, then flip for targeted destruction, mill/discard, and mass reanimation before flipping back to edict again? The power is there - it's just hard to set up the prerequisite in mono-black. Urabrask seems like a nice include for spellslinger. Free damage & more mana for the thing you were doing anyway? When it comes stapled to a 4/4 first strike, I'm supportive. The saga seems less game-ending than some of the others in EDH but better in 1v1 - that'll wipe a lot of a player's board and could just be the last 3 damage for 1. Vorinclex I've used a few times, the front face is already above-rate at 6/6 trample reach for 3GG that gets two forests. The saga is quite expensive but it can sure change a board.

[@jlaw131985]

@@51gunner The saga being expensive is why I love Agatha with him...I think I flipped him 3 times once...that was a weird game.

[@51gunner]

@@jlaw131985 Oh yeah, in an Agatha deck I can absolutely see him going off. The ability is borderline at 8 mana - you can get 2 big creatures, and start countering up and then fighting; it's good but I haven't always used it even when I can afford it. At anything under 6 mana that's an immediate "yes please" - his ETB will ensure you curve into 6 and having a saga that good going off much earlier makes a ton of sense to me. I honestly think the other Praetors might be underplayed, except Elesh Norn // Argent Etchings who I can agree is maybe(?) overrated. The fact that both Jin-Gitaxias // Great Synthesis can be a wincon and Sheoldred // True Scriptures can be a wincon means that to me, these should play in decks that can enable their saga side.

[@SirRanSax]

I feel like Hoarding Broodlord went over these guys head especially with it being black. I love playing that card and here's the thing... I rarely ever cast it. It being 8 mana is a non-factor. It has an ETB not a cast trigger so you usually always reanimate or cheat it out... and then you tutor a card that's tucked away safe in exile until you're ready to cast it. No worrying about it clogging your hand or being discarded.

[@karasins]

Yeah i feel like they are viewing this cards in such a narrow sense. Hoarding broodlord if it hits the battlefield typically results in a win for me.

[@HowltheWizard]

My buddy plays it with saw in half to get two more broodlords. It's a great card.

[@lobbynotlob]

Reanimate it, blink it, or even convoke it out. Like they just ignored that word on the card, its potentially a free tutor in a tokens deck.

[@Krunschy]

Breach the Multiverse really shocked me on this list. I see that risk of fueling your opponents with graveyard synergies, but half of those are creature based and fuel you instead, so I feel like it's offset just by that. Plus just the fact alone that this negates the biggest weakness of reanimators, as it can even be cast on an empty graveyard makes this card absolutely outstanding to me.

[@sheridanharding8905]

This. My Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts reanimator deck actually has a fairly low density of reanimator targets, and it got a huge upgrade when I added Breach and Incarnation Technique. Being able to cast those with a creature-less graveyard and plop a Vilis on the field while dodging graveyard hate is huge.

[@oliverbrain4790]

It is literally one of my favourite cards of all time. If someone IS playing graveyard synergies, it usually gets something excellent out their graveyard? So it's even more valuable?! OK, maybe don't play it when someone has a SyrKon on board, but if anything, you're even more likely to steal their SyrKon before they get a chance to play it!

[@EvilGruntProductions]

I feel stuff like delighted handling and cavern of souls don’t really let you know how valuable they were to add to a deck. You use them and then you have no idea if they were or were not going to counter spell you.

[@Amascut]

It’s less about knowing if they were going to or not and just not giving them a chance to.

[@ThisIsACommanderChannel]

My 2 cents on Lotho. He is a 2 Mana Value card, same as Dockside, but it is less scary than Dockside, which is good. You draw less attention from the other 3 players whereas Dockside will make you a massive threat even if your Dockside only gets you like 3-4 treasures. Also, it can actually be a lot more powerful than Dockside, if you get it out early then it will accrue you a lot of treasures over the next few turns in casual Commander, but in casual Commander a turn-2 Dockside isn't all that great. Not every casual game will have a lot of Artifacts and Enchantments out on turn-2 or 3 but every player will cast a 2nd spell in a turn multiple times. This sneaky and slow build up is what makes Lotho great, it's almost as good, if not better, than Dockside over time yet draws you 1/10 of the attention.

[@InvisibleYogurt]

Hoarding Broodlord is popular because it combos by itself. it gets saw in half, which then fetches peer into the abyss and something like burnt offering. its 8 mana to tutor any 2 cards in your deck when done right

[@Sashi_60]

broodlord is good because it's a tutor on a stick, so you can reanimate and blink it to get maximum value, along with the mana reduction from the convoke, imo it's one of the best reanimation targets in a reanimator deck

[@Skreddy331]

Great target for saw in half. Now you have 2 more tutored cards with convoke, and two more bodies to convoke them.

[@Helixcards]

Broodlord is amazing in cedh. For 8 mana, which will almost always be less cause you have creatures on the field, it lets you tutor and play demonic consultation. In other cases it sandbags combo pieces until they are needed and opponents cant wheel them away. At worst, it deters kraum from attacking you.

[@jeffe2267]

It also combos absurdly well with Saw in Half

[@TNTturtle5]

I think one thing y'all are forgetting about Elesh Norn is it affects your creatures as well. If you attack into them, when they block they need to pay 1 for each of those blocking creatures too unless they want to lose 2 life for them, and when they prepare to attack you can threaten the same on defense. I think it's best to evaluate her the same way we look at Ghostly Prison, for what it deters rather than what it does. You effectively have a Norn's Annex (flavorful), and when you attack your creatures kinda have Afflict 2.

[@jefftaylor8077]

While I think it’s over represented in many decks, I LOVE Hoarding Broodlord in my Prosper deck. I have a dragon package sub-theme in the deck using Magda, Goldspan Dragon, Ancient Copper Dragon, and Hoarding Broodlord. I remember one game where I had Magda, Mirkwood Bats and Mayhem Devil on the field. Tutored for Hoarding Broodlord, got Ob-Nixilis Captive Kingpin, and just went to town. It’s not an optimal card, but dang if it isn’t fun.

[@Amascut]

Putting it with Saw in Half is also *insane*!

[@jadegrace1312]

​@@AmascutOnce you get to that point you could try adding burnt offering, victimize, and ardent elementalist

[@HowltheWizard]

​@@Amascutmy buddy does that, it's a great card and combo.

[@lukevorwald7727]

Matt was able to cast Last March of the Ents against us in Chicago this weekend. it was horrifying (he spanked us, but it was very cool)

[@ramuslatsman6944]

I remember playing a game shortly after all will be one came out. One player played a staff of compleation and told the table it was the most busted card printed in the set. They then they paid 12 life and 5 more mana to draw 3 cards with it over the next turn cycle before promptly dying…

[@GuitarSartori]

Breach the multiverse for me is one of the most powerful cards to use in commander

[@filiphorvath8932]

They were wilding with this take - Breach is so absurd.

[@dr00ness]

saying that Breach was bad because your opponent might have Konrad out was just such a weird example to use against it, especially since you're making the deck... you don't have your own Konrad in your black deck that's milling decks with Breach?

[@andrewb378]

I can't believe they're this down on breach. The card is nuts. I just don't understand how you're going to be afraid of Syr Konrad for breach but not for rotdr but rise can get you *more damage* off Konrad than breach! These takes are just so so bad. Breach is insane.

[@lauraposnett6360]

I run Staff of Compleation in my Urabrask and Jin Gitaxias decks, and it does great work in both of them. You don't want to devote a lot of slots to proliferation, but advancing the saga sides by a turn is huge. Having a mana rock that can also do that is great.

[@eternaleclypse]

As far as the Rise vs. Breach conversation, my take is simple. Breach takes no setup to get going, and Rise requires too much setup to get going.

[@steelstiletto]

Lol, that new picture of ManaCurves in the intro is great, love the energy 😄

[@Flumpor]

Hoarding Broodlord is probably one of my favorite cards of the last year, but it is not really played in the places where it shines the most. It is an amazing reanimator target. The uses are just awesome. Not only can you reanimate this, fetch another reanimation spell as a backup and go-off, but unlike a lot of reanimator targets you can just cast it. maybe you got 5 little guys and enablers on board, play it for 3, get like a heroic intervention, cast that, then wipe the board and be massively ahead. My Top 5 targets for this card are probably: Reanimate, Path to Exile, Drown in the Loch, Not dead yet and Thrilling Encore. It is so weird to me that Joey didn't mention it, maybe he just doesn't use it as a reanimator target, but this card really shines when you look at it through that angle and the cards you tutor up are low CMC.

[@destinyhero]

Calling Breach the Multiverse overrated is whack

[@beurtalvarez]

it is true though, y'all should be able to tell the difference between being overrated and being bad

[@destinyhero]

@@beurtalvarez 7 mana to mill 40 cards on the table and get 4 picks of the litter is not overrated.

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Drivnod feels much more clunky than teysa even though it’s one more mana

[@esconde9922]

a friend of mine who's a big cedh player says Everbody Lives is better because it can stop an opponent from getting to a combo win whereas even if you're phased out with teferi's protection, an opponent can still get a combo win.

[@aidanschauer1581]

Yup 100%

[@Garl_Vinland]

But then why not just run Angel’s grace?

[@esconde9922]

@@Garl_Vinland I'm not a cedh player but i guess it's because everybody lives still can be used save your board or be a fog.

[@aidanschauer1581]

@@Garl_Vinland run both…

[@Garl_Vinland]

@@esconde9922 Tefari's protection can save your board, be a fog and resist those pesky mass exile effects, while keeping all your counters and tokens in check. You can also use it in tandem with wiping the entire board to essentially create a one sided boardwipe.

[@jeffreylong1478]

Dawn charm would be a good replacement for everybody lives. It’s a fog, regenerates a creature, or counters a spell targeting you functionally equivalent to hexproof. But it’s like a tenth of the price of everybody lives

[@LoneSkag]

Everybody lives kinda has “I’m gonna counterspell the board wipe” vibes, but in white.

[@zackkelley2940]

@@LoneSkag See also Lapse of Certainty, Reprieve, and Warping Wail.^^

[@actuallyKriminell]

The most important ability is the "cant win, cant lose". That blanks many strong combos. A Teferi's does not.

[@LoneSkag]

@@zackkelley2940 reprieve lets them do it again. Everybody lives lets you keep potential help if someone is running away with the game. Everybody lives isn’t worth its price tag tho

[@zackkelley2940]

@@LoneSkag True, still a good way to buy time though.

[@Beaver_Rapsmith]

Ojer Taq was released in the same set as Anim Pakal. I run it in that deck and I find by turn 6 if this comes down it's a haymaker

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Breach the multiverse is fantastic I don’t understand what dana is talking about, I feel like you guys meta is influencing your opinion on this one

[@hanschristopherson8056]

I really agree on ojer taq, it needs to be in a deck where the ability to make tokens is already on board so your not tapping out for it to do nothing, ojer taq is very good in my brenard deck because I can wait to sacrifice my creatures until ojer taq is out at which point the value I’m getting is going to win me the game

[@nurseclaire5252]

Completely agree with this

[@Dtoszi]

Staff of Compleation is a very specific card that I think is sort of unfairly singled out here. First and foremost, it’s a flavor card best run in phyrexian decks. It’s technically the cheapest proliferating artifact since it only requires life instead of 4 mana to activate. The self destruction also comes up a bit with creatures like blightbelly rat or phyrexian themed artifacts like ichor wellspring. So putting it up there with something like Staff of Domination when you all admit it’s a callback card is a bit shortsighted. I’m not going to be comparing a suburban car to some multimillion race car.

[@gedtheflayer]

As an example of a deck that wants Hoarding Broodlord, I have it in my Myrkul, Lord of Bones Birthing Pod deck. This deck runs a package of hate-bear creatures to slow the game down until I can combo off. If the game is going well for me, I can convoke up the Broodlord to find my combo piece, and double dip off the effect when Myrkul turns it into an enchantment to try to go for the win. If the game is going poorly, I can Pod Myrkul into the Broodlord as a "break glass in case of emergency" to do what's necessary to get back in the game. I agree that not every deck wants it, but if you can "use every part of the buffalo" it can be a great fit.

[@Jonnymagick]

So I love Everybody Lives in my Eriette of the Charmed Apple deck. I want all the creatures I’ve enchanted to survive a boardwipe :)

[@bassface1018]

Delighted Halfling isn't 12 dollars because of EDH its 12 dollars for other formats that want it.

[@Blindaltqq]

Hoarding Broodlord is a cEDH one-card combo with Saw in Half which goes becomes Peer Into the Abyss, which results in drawing about 40 cards. At 2%, a notable portion of that play is likely cEDH related.

[@Kyle_Outrage420]

Matt I've been running last march of the ents in my ur dragon/treasure deck. I have got to cast it 2 times so far it wins games on the spot if your playing a big/etb creature heavy deck. When last march of the ents leads to free hellkite courser and more which leads to free ur dragon trigger which lead to more free dragons an permanents I think it's safe to assume it's gonna do similar things in any tuned deck

[@TheTLProductions12]

You know how you shouldn't judge a planeswalker for it's ultimate? Don't judge Breach the Multiverse with a scenario where the good choices are already there and also a hate piece is on board.

[@7uxedomask]

Based on the lotho and hoarding broodlord it’s very clear you guys aren’t playing Cedh lol. You use Hoarding broodlord to tutor for saw in half, then use saw in half on the broodlord, then get your whole combo.

[@Yull-Rete]

Staff of Compleation may be an overplayed card generally, but in my sample size of one game playing with it in my Oops-all-Ajanis Master-Chef Lae'zel, I profitably used all 4 modes on it. It's base line as a 3-drop mana rock makes it not completely useless. I used the destroy mode to make a bunch of tokens using One with the Kami when my creatures with +1/+1 counters got pacified. Then, when the Atarka, World Render player got it buffed up to one-shot territory, I used the card draw mode before my turn to dig for Ajani Steadfast, and the proliferate mode to be able to emblem him that turn to stop the one-shot.(Lae'zel gets +1 loyalty counter for the cast and the proliferate.)

[@chrisdominique8787]

I feel like some fair points were made for Elesh Norn but at 20K I don’t know if it’s overrated, that trigger will happen each time YOU go to combat too and opponents have to decide between letting your tokens continue to snowball and take the damage, or block little 1/1’s in combat and lose 2 life for each one blocked? 🤔

[@CreationEdge]

Stats say nearly 70% of Elesh Norn decks have the incubate commander Brimaz. So absolutely, you're making your opponents lose life even if they block your tokens, or pay to attack you like a Phyrexian Ghostly Prison.

[@Ironpecker]

I think one of the aspects that they missed in comparing Breach the Multiverse to Rise of the Dark realms, Sepulcral primordial and similar cards is that breach the multiverse ALSO fuels those cards! Ofc if you're against a graveyard deck it can feel scary, but if your deck also has those powerful bombs having a way to guarantee that there'll be something good in the graveyards is very nice. Maybe this is my mindset of a casual battle cruiser pod player, where it can take a while to remove cards from the field, or if they are removed they are usually exiled by a white player, so getting many great targets in grave can take a little while, compared to rise of the dark realms which is just always on

[@Thoughtmage100]

Some of these cards are some of my favorites, but at least in Hoarding Broodlord's and Breach the Multiverse's cases I tend to either ramp quickly into them or cast them for free anyway. In regards to the Ojer Taq debate, my personal way of viewing it and other token multipliers in general is what the card does to increase the speed of the clock I'm trying to put on my opponents. Of course that depends on the deck. For instance my Bant Galadriel deck doesn't bother running Ojer Taq because at 6 mana I'm looking to start building a board presence by casting multiple creatures and maximizing on Galadriel's triggers. A doubler at 4 cmc is a lot more reasonable in that deck because of how quickly I can put it onto the field compared to Galadriel's 5 cmc and Ojer Taq's 6 cmc. I'm having to balance token multipliers with token generators, and +1/+1 counter generators and multipliers as well. For 6 mana I can drop Mondrak and something like Conclave Mentor or Ledger Shredder instead.

[@CrabBaskets]

There are several cards from last year I was considering adding to decks and many sitting at 5MV+ that offer some level of redundancy or are some finisher in some way. And I ended up similarly feeling that they are competing with a tough crowd of existing cards that offer the same functionality, or are simply 'win more' cards and that's not what my deck needs. To name a few - Virtue of Strength, Virtue of Knowledge, Solphim Mayhem Dominus, and Nissa Ascended Animist. I am not saying these are bad cards, far from it - they are very powerful effects, I just didn't find the price point worth it and the juice is not worth the squeeze in the context of the decks I was considering them for.

[@elcapitanofthemtn]

I think Breach the Multiverse is an example of a high CMC card that has always felt fun or impactful when I’ve seen it played. Very unique but versatile design space where it’s good in both reanimator or mill strategies.

[@ladyRonja]

Hoarding Dragon is a dirt cheap card, I've played it in budget reanimator decks. I'm suprised you guys didn't consider monetary cost for it, and also didn't consider that it's a mana hungry big creature. I never planned on paying more mana then what my renaimation spell cost to get this one out.

[@chrisperrell2843]

The comparison of Fiery Emancipation / Gratuitous Violence and Mondrak / Ojer Taq is strange. In the red case for one more mana you get a triple and more versatility (any source rather than a creature) wheras in the white case it's two more mana for a triple that is more restrictive (creature tokens only). IMO Fiery Emancipation is an upgrade wheras Ojer Taq an option.

[@Tclark6199]

Breach the Multiverse is the best spell from last year! Boooooo 😂❤

[@lordBeerus467]

Lotho and breach the multiverse overrated?! What type of magic are you guys playing?

[@jacquesdespadas]

Ojer Taq tripling creature tokens is a big yawn, but Fiery Emancipation tripling damage is heart attack city. One of the decks I see fairly frequently in our play group is an Imodane burn deck. It’s the first deck that ever got me thinking about building dedicated land destruction, because you can’t let that deck get to five mana.

[@theaamanable]

clearly joey has never slapped Everybody Lives under an Isochron Scepter and ruined everyone days

[@froggystrap1232]

Hoarding Broodlord is a CEDH staple now thats why it's played a lot

[@Magnafiend]

For Ojer it really depends on the deck it's in and what you're using those tokens for. If its something like Jinnie Fay where those tokens can attack the second they hit field, and there are attack triggers to go along with it, Ojer does live up to the hype. Same with ETB/Aristocrat decks where those tokens are more for fodder/triggering effects and essentially just getting truckloads of value without even having to swing. If they have to sit around for a whole turn cycle though or it's more just in a deck that's going wide for the sake of going wide, the effectiveness drops off.

[@nicholashentges1121]

I'm currently constructing a Vial Smasher / Sakashima deck that I've included Transcendant Message in. While the copies of Vial Smasher can't convoke the blue pips, the deck is primarily blue so I run more blue in the mana base, and it is a larger instant draw spell that should give me a decent trigger for all of my Vial Smashers. On top of that, attacking or blocking with my 2/3 goblins is not advised, so they should be available to use for convoke for a larger X value. All in all though, that doesn't make Transcendant Message not overrated. I just have what might be a fringe case for it being good.

[@EulogyfortheAngels]

A big error not mention Everybody Lives doesn't exile itself, so it can easily be recurred and recast. It also fits on Isochron Scepter and on Elite Arcanist. It can really mess up a player trying to set up a game-altering board wipe. It can set up brutal alpha strikes. It can protect you from burn, life loss, targeted discard, targeted mill, and save your creatures from everything except sac/exile. It stops all "I win" cards like LabMan, Approach, Thoracle, etc. It's easily one of the best self/permanent protection + fog spells ever printed. Teferi's Protection does plenty of things better, but EL does some valuable things that TP can't. It makes sense why TP is more expensive, but I think that EL's price is perfectly justified. Also factor in just 4 printings vs Teferi's 11 versions. The Lotho take is interesting. In a death & taxes deck - efficient creature heavy and/or efficient removal heavy - it can make a treasure just about every turn without needing an opponent to do anything. Lands can be held up for removal. You don't even have to overextend and will it do its thing. On a higher power level table with lower average deck CMCs it can make treasures constantly. It also only costs 2 so the investment is minimal and people will feel bad trying to kill it.

[@ajaydassani9931]

Tru tru about the Chicago bears.. it was nice meeting all 3 of you at magiccon.. wish we could of jammed a game I got deep respect for ur input

[@EDHRECast]

Was great to meet you, thanks for saying hi!

[@DHunt88]

I love Ojer Taq, I had him in my Vampire Demon deck but moved him to my Ceaser deck. The more tokens the better with Ceasers ability and the fact that to get rid of Ojer you have to exile him or he always comes back, just crazy helpfull. Got him and anointed procession so i sac a creature with Ceasers ability and instead of getting 2 soldiers, i get 12 then ping my opponent for a minimum 12 damage. Its amazing.

[@josephwodarczyk977]

30:33 That's not how the rules work. You can untap something as many times as you want, even if it's not tapped. The creature might get confused, but it will still say it's untapping. Sorry if someone else has pointed this out.

[@braindedpanda]

im a huge fan of the deckbuilding ideal of finding a dragon to match what you doing in the deck. in defense of hoarding broodlord; im playing it in my tasha the witch queen deck. exiling and playing your opponents cards is tasha's main jam. broodlord may be a little overrated but it does great work in the home i found it in. that is the nice thing about the design space we've moved into, weird cards that can occupy a niche and less just good for everything cards.

[@ElisaKaysCauldron]

Broodlord is amazing and a simple wincon. 1st, lets be honest, most black decks aren't trying to cast this for 8 mana, they're going to reanimate this guy. It's a flickerable creature that tutors for any card and gives that card "protection"(completely safe from discard and the likes) and gives the card convoke so Broodlord is there to immediately make that spell cost at least 1 generic less. Go get Saw In Half on ETB and use him to convoke it, get a death trigger, tutor twice and get two 4/3 dragons to convoke with... then maybe grab a necromancy or reanimate(use dragons convoke) bring the original copy back. Now you have a 7/6 dragon and two 4/3 dragons and have tutored for any 2 additional cards. This can be undeniably powerful mono black graveyard fun before you start thinking about adding other colors. Flicker it a few times in a turn, win the game, you just got any 3 cards in your deck. Copy it? It's kinda boring but there's no denying this is a very strong card that slots in well to a lot of what black decks do in commander, plus it gives you can excuse to run Saw In Half and that's just hilarious.

[@billjensen51]

Is it possible to attack with creatures then tap them after blocks are declared and still do damage? Could that be a window to cast transcendent message? Just curious about this as a possible option.

[@barrelrollio]

I think comparing Lotho to Monologue Tax is just... a wild evaluation. They are so different. Lotho has the benefit of creature recursion, lower mana value, easier to trigger. Literally EVERYONE would pay 1 life to make 1 Treasure. Would you play a 2-mana enchantment that says "During each player's turn, you may pay 1 life to gain 1 treasure"? For sure

[@Amascut]

Whew Matt, that Lotho take is super hot and super wrong, imo. Lotho is a massive step up to Monologue Tax. Why? As Joey mentioned, the “A player”, not “an opponent” text is a huge change, giving you a ton of extra control over when those tokens get generated, plus, it’s one less mana, and is on a 2/1 body that can be swinging early and chump blocking late once you’ve gotten your use from it. It’s crazy every time I’ve played it. Play it more, it’s so good.

[@Tuss36]

For Elesh Norn, one big thing about her front half is that it's *and* damage to *any* of your stuff. So while yes they're probably gonna pay the 1 when they punch you with their 8/8, they're gonna have a harder time finding funds when you end up quadruple blocking with your token army, or when you swing at them sure they could block but then they have to pay 1 for each block or they're taking damage anyway. All of that on top of damage based removal getting a tax on it, especially boardwipes. Making them pay full price for Blasphemous Act one way or another!

[@Dragon_Fyre]

I have never found a home for Drivnod. It has been awkward in most decks.

[@Ryuuma-cr9kj]

I ran it in a Ratadrabik deck on arena as another sort of token doubler. It would double the Ratadrabik triggers and any other aristocrat effects I had going. Getting 2 tokens of Elas il-Kor and then doubling the death triggers on each could spiral quick. Plus if you have to let it die, you just get another one from Ratadrabik.

[@CmdrUD87]

I am running it in Henzie, where you double the draw- triggers from Blitz. Plus, I built the deck with most of the Blitz- creatures, even the not so good ones, so there's mostly fodder to make it indestructible

[@gregwylie3970]

I put it in Wilhelt. Doubling lots of triggers when I sac zombies each turn.

[@jadegrace1312]

Yeah 5 mana is a lot

[@robertmitchell8052]

Far out, I love you guys, easily my favourite EDH channel now. Please keep making videos for as long as you possibly can :)

[@Nr4747]

Going from Mondrak/Procession to Ojer Taq has the problem that Ojer Taq only triples creature tokens while Mondrak/Procession doubles *all tokens*. This is the exact opposite (narrowing what is increased) than going from Gratuitous Violence to Fiery Emancipation, which not only goes from doubling to tripling damage, but also goes from only doubling creature damage (Violence) to all damage sources (Emancipation).

[@breadgehog]

I think Everybody Lives gets a slot in a lot of decks just because it stops wincons dead. That gives it value in the right decks especially if you're not running blue, so it'll always be pod dependent imo.

[@chris-m1g5r]

I've gotten tons of treasures with Lotho at a casual table because while not everyone will be casting 2 spells a turn, they also don't try to play around it as much as a competitive table might. Good in Casual because people don't play around it and you build up treasures, good in competitive tables because either people slow down to play around it or you get lots of treasures. Only 2 mana, so easily playable turn 1 off of something like land + lotus petal.

[@Renegadetothe64th]

I put Ojer Taq in my Council of Four deck. It’s very nice going from 5 mana commander onto 6 mana card that supports commander pretty well. Council only triggers once each turn so making 3 a turn instead of 1 is pretty good.

[@captaincaspercorvus7863]

I am playing a Teysa Karlov Kaya-Superfriends deck and I love the versatility of staff of competion in there a lot. It is a 3 Mana Manarock tapping for all colours and with my tokens having livelink the live loss didn't hurt ever. It also is a sacrifice outlet and helps proliferating my Planeswaklers, Hangerback Walker, Elenda, Yahenni, and so on. Drawing a card when needed also never was that bad for 4 live. So maybe that is a pretty special deck, but I really like all of the options on my Manarock, even if it is not a staff of dominance at all... 😅 But Drivnod didn't make the cut in there, too. The five mana slot is very crowded and just a backup doesn't do it for me. And I am totally with Joey. Breach may be a little overhyped, but it is just pure fun to see it resolve... 😊 Last but not least guys, thank you so much for the podcast. I am watching or listening every single episode and it is always great fun to enjoy the chemistry between those great individuals you all seem to be. You pretty often make my day and I can't even say how much I love your work! ❤

[@captaincaspercorvus7863]

And please don't blame my English, as I am no native speaker... 🫣

[@user-yy1nb2iu7z]

only got to up to 17:24 in the video but regarding matt's opinion on the card falling flat and not meeting expectations, i think the card emulates the flavor of the staff well enough with the variety of options with the lack of built -in untapping, which if the only shortcoming of the card is power i think thats perfectly fine, its cool to have a weaker, more incremental but different staff of domination as it lets lower power level tables have the same vibe as the cool card without the power. Ive put completion personally in 4 of my decks vs the 0 due to simply how strong staff is and it doesnt fit the vibe of my meta. I feel like there are a lot of cards where, its just i wish i could casually run this, and they make a slightly different but weaker version of it that fits what im looking for. I personally would like more cards like staff of completion and less like domination

[@TtelrafalNitsuj]

Yea I also cut Drivnod from my decks since it felt that it wasn't being impactful at all, even in aristocrats.

[@ShinnyMetal]

Hoarding broodlord is extremely powerful...in cEDH (which is probably where the numbers come). It takes set up, but that's fine. Tutor it into your graveyard Reanimate it Search your deck for Saw in Half Convoke out saw in half and use it on broodlord Go find your two card combo Win? Also, once you've sawed it in half, the token copies are a juicy target for Sacrifice to get 8! mana

[@BobbyBev95]

The Breach the Multiverse take is wild to me. It is a self-contained value card with MASSIVE upside. Rise of the Dark Realms needs setup. Breach can be cast after a Farewell and still net you a crazy amount of value. And you get to cherry pick the best things milled. The card is a house

[@boatghost2543]

I have a wall of text tribal deck, and elesh norn plus sheoldred sagas combo well with each other. getting a bunch of creatures and blowing up other creatures, then having each opponent discard 3 and give your creatures doublestrike, then blowing up the board and putting all creatures from each grave to the field is pretty strong. it's weird and funky, and to be honest, the only weakness the deck has is going against a patient man because the value I get is huge when people refuse to read my board state.

[@traptbysociety]

the perfect spot for Ojer Taq for me would be in Ghalta and Mavren. Tripling your single X/X tapped and attacking Dino seems pretty good to me. Also, Selesnya is the perfect colour combo to be putting out big creatures earlier than the curve. Playing Ojer Taq main phase 1 means G&Ms trigger provides instant pay off. Why go wide OR go tall, when you can do both?

[@K4zow]

Staff of compleation is amazing in bombadil, proliferating repeatedly for free at instant speed is a rare ability and the option to either make it a 3cmc mana rock or draw is a nice upside, also i play lotho in my Mr.House because i need all the 2cmc and lower treasure producers i can get !

[@gregwylie3970]

After lotho and breach I had to turn it off. They’re both bangers.

[@rditullio]

I play Hoarding Broodlord in my Rivaz of the Claw deck and I have all the low cost dragon cost reducers to tap for the convoke cost. Between them and Rivaz I can cast it on turn 4 or five reliably.

[@marcoottina654]

21:00 as you kinda suggested, a "populate" deck do like tripling very relevant token and copies Orthion, Bramble Sovereign and lots kf Simic-accepting clonrmakers cards would like to have more strongly relevant tokens. Tripling a 1/1 Human is ok, creating 3 clones of Craterhoof Behemot rather than kust 1 is .. win more, but it's thr rnd of spectrum: lots of stuff became from good yo game ending by having lots of copies

[@Garl_Vinland]

Is Tefari’s protection over-No. no its not

[@yes.thatjanedoe]

have you mentioned the thesaurus is terrible?

[@MFewwy]

Lotho is amazing in Dihada legends deck. He regularly producing me 3-5-7 treasures.

[@BlightDragonBrewery]

More often than not, you don’t play cards like Ojer Taq, Deepest Foundation without some way of protecting them. Most times you’re also not casting it on curve, but like a turn or two prior and if it “dies” (it’s not dead). I like the card it’s a lot of fun 😊

[@pacdaman15557]

10:30 Big distinction between lotho and monologue tax is lotho is any player, not just opponents effectively increasing the power of the card by 33% while being one mana cheaper. If monologue tax isn't good, figuring out why it isn't good is important. If its not good because the effect is over costed, Lotho makes it better. If its not good because the effect isn't powerful enough, Lotho makes it better. Etc.

[@pacdaman15557]

On top of this comparing it to other 2 mana ramp; if it makes more than a single treasure in a turn cycle it outpaces pretty much every other card at that slot besides Bloom Tender. You guys also bring up power level a lot when discussing the card but at what power level do players not play 2 spells a turn past turn 5? Precons play 2 spells or more before turn 5.

[@chadsamuels6512]

I play Ratadrabik. Lotho is not in the Deck where Ojir and Drivnod are. I must also admit Teysa. Anointed procession and Mondrak are also in the Deck. Doubling the double or tripling the double allows some wild Board states.

[@ryrysamurai92]

Staff of Completion is in my Liliana kindred deck. it’s a great toolbox card for monoblack, it helps the aristocrats strategy, it ramps, it proliferates the planeswalkers, and drawing is always good

[@barnburner1238]

The milling on breach isn’t as helpful to the opponents as you might think. You’ll be taking the best card from there grave anyways, so it doesn’t help them as much. Plus, if you mill multiple good targets for them, then that’s fine because they’re a grave deck, so they’ll be milling anyways

[@jaywinner328]

Lotho and Delighted Halfling a are both in my Jodah the Unifier deck. I think they fit here even if overplayed overall.

[@olvynchuru1663]

I recommend playing Hoarding Broodlord in a reanimator deck. It's one of the best reanimation targets in Commander. It can search for Living Death or whatever other nasty card you want.

[@xxthevampirate]

hoarding broodlord is a 1 mana win the game card in mono black, that's one reason it sees play over moonshaker which needs setup. Also as said before Lotho is really good, for one it triggers if you play 2 spells in a turn when monologue does not. If people are drawing cards they're going to be playing cards, so you end up getting as much mana as a dockside would in many situations and its cheap so it's unlikely to be removed. The fact that you all can miss what makes cards good is astonishing, sure not every game is Cedh but most commander game involves people trying to win the game and not durdley nonsense piles. People usually are looking to find marginal upgrades to their decks and that leads to higher powered tables over time. Cards like Delighted halfling are amazing, its the best mana dork printed since birds of paradise why wouldn't you play it if you have it especially if you are replacing a $.25 card.

[@Ranis555]

Transcendent Message has been an all star card in my Saint Traft and Rem Karolus deck. I agree with the sentiment that you should be able to win if you're drawing a lot of cards with it, but that deck often gives me a lot of the 1/1 humans that just end up being chump blockers most of the time so being able to draw cards with them in response to a board wipe has been fantastic.

[@krazykilper]

@41:05 "I am serious...and don't call me Shirley"

[@angeldoyle859]

Hoarding broodlord my beloved... Ok to be fair, I think broodlord's last line of text and creature type are a trap, You don't run it in a cast from exile deck, and probably not in most dragon decks. Hoarding broodlord is much more of an upgraded rune-scarred demon that truly shines in go-wide or reanimator decks: on top of hitting a bit harder it enhances the card you tutor for. It's an evasive flyer that hits like a freight train and gets you whatever answer you need while also making that answer easier to cast potentially as soon as it hits with the added upside that casting it rather than reanimating it isn't the biggest ask thanks to convoke. If you have one other creature, it can even grab and immediately convoke a reanimate, or maybe you have a great board state and you grab a protection spell or counterspell that you can convoke in response to a wipe, or maybe it's a desperate situation and you need that wrath ASAP or are just grabbing darkness which you can convoke off of broodlord alone, or maybe you're feeling a bit gutsy and you grab an X spell finisher to obliterate all your opponents next turn. All this on top of the fact that you can bluff with it: your opponents now know that you have the perfect answer and they're not safe even if you're tapped out. Overall, broodlord is a very potent budget top-end. It gets you an answer when you're behind, protection when you're ahead, and gas when you're in neutral all wrapped up in a big flyer, and the added convoke on the tutored card makes it feel like you've got an ace up your sleeve. Sure, trying to use this as a cast from exile matters card is a fool's errand (though it's nice when it incidentally comes up, like if you have some madness cards in your discard-fueled reanimator or if you're tutoring and slamming delayed blast fireball), and it's not great in dragons, but it's an all-star in my raffine reanimator deck. I agree that a lot of people overrate it for the wrong reasons, but to say it doesn't have a home is underrating just how potent this effect and statline is.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

I love my Staff of Compleation in my Minthara orzhov experience proliferate deck. Other than that I have never even glanced at it for a deck.

[@privatepenguin2496]

I use it for willowdusk essence seer just to get the pay life parts so I can get more life loss.

[@Toleezu6]

Hoarding Broodlord is a better Rune-Scarres Demon when the demon creature type doesn't matter. It IS still a big flying tutor that also protects the tutored card from discard and offers a path to cost reduction. It's super solid. The best? No. But if you are tutor creature hungry it has plenty of 'overs'

[@grantmurdock7385]

Transcendent Message is a tough one. It came in the Kasla precon, and I've been able to make it work, in no small part because I'm making a ton of blue 1/1 tokens and get the extra Scry 2 + 1 card most of the time. Mostly. I can't imagine there's other places this will fit.

[@SventFulgur]

I have never once spent mana on Hoarding Broodlord. This card is waaaay better than See Double or Up the Beanstalk (in the short term). It's effectively a free Demonic Tutor with a body that gives whatever card you find Convoke making it also effectively free. It's a shoe in for any deck that makes dorky tokens or swarms the board as it finds whatever you need to take over the game.