"This Could Have Been Prevented" | 650HP SR20VE Swap | SR86 EP 7 [

[@hpa101]

Our merch has less cooling issues than this 86, I promise. Get yours here: shop.hpacademy.com/ - Taz.

[@MafiaboysWorld]

DOCILE has less cooling issues too, just saying Taz. 😛

[@Vgk36]

Dang mediums t shirts out of stock ! I'll keep checking back ! Love you guys !!!! No homohahaha

[@M16xblowDRO]

Love the lack of censoring, shows how real motorsports really is

[@joshuapiszczek1924]

A thousand times this!

[@AmirPomen]

Totally yesss... Thats racing life...never gave up! Where most people only saw the happy side most of the time

[@yowie0889]

With all that danger-to-manifold from the high EGTs, I'm surprised none of the floor pans fell out.

[@hpa101]

Annoyingly after going really well in the first hour we had to re-upload this due to an audio issue on some devices (some people couldn't hear the radio audio, making the start really average). This one will stay up though and apologies to all those who had some comment and questions. Post em up again if you're here again 😉 - Taz.

[@miralemnermina142]

I was wondering if I was insane lol because I saw the first upload and then it wasn't there anymore

[@SuprSi]

Can't wait to see everything sorted and you guys back out on track spamming the party mode button! Shame about the damage to head and turbo, was quite an educational failure tho, ty for explaining.

[@MrJessegsx]

A bad day at the track is still better than a good day at work. You'll get it fixed and get back out there. Go get em guys!!

[@hpa101]

Cheers Jesse - Taz

[@joshuapiszczek1924]

Loving the new vlog style that you're documenting everything with! Seeing the hurdles of building and maintaining a track car is quite honestly a treat and the kind of footage I love to see, no doubt others do as well! Rooting for you guys!

[@harkyontrack865]

a lot of people should “ learn “ much from this clip , the time and effort that goes into any project like this is NOT understood-- unless you have done it long clip. but VERY informative. thanks 👍

[@hpa101]

Our longest one yet for sure. Cheers mate! - Taz.

[@TankRust]

Thanks so much for your honesty and transparency. It’s easy to ask “what if” in the comments section, but you guys gave it your best efforts where it matters, at the racetrack. Hopefully you get the cooling setup sorted soon and return to the track to get some podiums on this ripper of a car.

[@andrewrigg4905]

I couldn't agree more. Well said.

[@hpa101]

Well said! Thanks for your support. It is always easy to see with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight :)

[@BrewedMotorsports]

First off great to see you guys on the track having fun with the car! Just brain storming, considering the HG failure could have been brought on by the front cylinders running lean while the rear cylinders were on the rich side. (Even though as you mentioned lambda average for all 4 roughly 0.78 lambda at full load): What’s the fuel feed/return line set up on the fuel rail? Dual inlet (front and rear) single center outlet could be helpful if not done already. Perhaps the plenum promotes that much more airflow to the front cylinders or there’s another reason (ports/exhaust manifold/other) the front cylinders seem to be slightly leaner. Looking forward to seeing the egt’s/afr’s in each exhaust runner, can’t go wrong with more data I’m sure you guys will have it sorted soon.

[@richardboyk3493]

Regarding cooling issues. We know that the end result was a combination of factors. Basically related to the head gaskte leak introducing air into the system. This is going to create a steam pocket. Coolant pressure sensors will help, but have you considered switching to something like Evans Waterless Coolant? An Evans Coolant system runs at atmospheric pressure and air pockets should self eliminate ( Burp ) . Evans Coolant has a boiling temperature above 375F. No formation of run away Nucleate Boiling and additional problems with " Steam Pockets " forming. Might be something to ponder. Coming from the L-6 Datto family.. we have constant problems with stagnant flow and Steam Pockets forming around Cylinders #5 and #6. We add external water Logs to vent the steam pressure. Might not be " Easy " to do on your cylinder head design... But may bear looking into if it is a coolant flow problem.

[@bradleylauder8205]

Learnt those lessons with the SR20 aswell, best thing we did with them was O Ring the block and make sure its got stainless valves because the heads of those stock valves will fall off eventually. Thanks for the interesting videos

[@hpa101]

Yup, we've moved to an inconel exhaust valve and a stainless inlet valve now - Andre

[@AmirPomen]

I second this opinion.. O-ring job and coolant channel groove cut on the deck would help improve the coolant issue... Or in extreme case (subaru ej20 rallycross spec engine) doing coolant steam port for each cylinder

[@thebrelon]

Was about to say it's time for individual cylinders EGT, trims, data logging and engine protection but you covered it. Bad luck this time, better luck next time!

[@Jmherbert7]

So bummed about this but after the last video I knew what was coming. I hope you guys are sticking with the SR20 in the future. This is one of the best builds on KZbin at the moment.

[@hpa101]

You can rest assured the SR20 isn't going anywhere! - Andre

[@Jmherbert7]

@@hpa101 Awesome! Very excited to follow this through the winter here in the states.

[@alfredobonilha4365]

Just watched the entire [BUILD] series. Loved the content, what an amazing effort putting this project together and filming it all. Really appreciated it. Hope you guys can fix the engine and put it back on the race track soon. Cheers from Brazil!

[@hpa101]

Thanks Alfredo, it's been quite the journey so far :D - Taz.

[@luisetorres5760]

Pulling the engine apart at the track, that’s F... racing!❤️

[@chrisa.3288]

Great video editing. You guys are proper professionals in the biz.

[@juanc5149]

Me someone who used hp academy to build their sr20: Starts sweat profusely.

[@hpa101]

You'll be pleased to know there's nothing wrong with the build. It's the surrounding systems that let us down in this instance 😞 - Andre

[@AmirPomen]

@@hpa101 no worries.. im sure u guys will get around all those issue...

[@jesseselinsky6535]

Rebuild doods, car has great potential. Can’t wait to see what it does full TILT🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻

[@MafiaboysWorld]

Doesn't matter if it's the 1UZ or the SR in it Andre, the 86 still isn't getting better distance per dollar than DOCILE is. Feel bad for you all but the 86 will be back. Just hurry up and finish that damn Evo too ASAP. 😉👍 #Day176OfContinuousPeerPressureOnAndre

[@butunercouk]

Best video ever! I would like to see log datas or telemetry on race day and practise sessions. Please put all egt probes back on and test both cylinder head's and block's all water channels before reinstalling everthing. Check whole assembly for equal heat dissipation with thermal imaging camera. Next time 💫🙏🏼 Good luck and best wishes.👋🏼

[@ooohry]

Crappy situation but a masterfully put together video. Who else out there is doing such a good mix of in depth theory combined with action.

[@TristanNZ]

Hard luck lads. Considering there seems to be an issue with gassing/ air lock in the cooling system could combustion gas passing the HG be a contributing factor? I know chicken and egg but once coolant dispersed from front cylinders would be a snowball effect? Keep up the content and sharing the ups and downs. I know them well 😊

[@kowalskitk4]

Thanks for that video. Great story! Cheers from POL

[@harleydaun3847]

Really gutted for all the problems you guys are facing :/ seriously loving the vlog videos though and seeing how it really is for you guys. Seriously getting interested in some local racing up in Auckland maybe 24lemons.

[@rmdhndwi]

Damn, that's a lot of education from just an overheated engine I follow the ups and downs on this 86, what i can take is, the more problem you had, the more education we have Hope the car well next series tho

[@johncuthbert5320]

Thanks for sharing the highs and most certainly the lows. Chin up and looking forward to your future vids

[@gordowg1wg145]

Very good breakdown on the problem, probable cause and why it's cost effective to run individual EGT and, if practical, lambdas.

[@benc2235]

Thanks boys great honest content as usual and looking forward to the full resolution. Massive thumbs up for sharing all your hard work!

[@krislarsen135]

That’s extremely gutting for the whole crew, but it is good to see that these things happen to the professionals aswell, sometimes things are just out of your hands!

[@hpa101]

You'll find that experiences like this go on with plenty of builds, even at the highest levels of motorsport. Usually you just don't get to hear about them - Andre

[@krislarsen135]

And that’s why your series is one of the best for the fact that you do show it! Love the vids

[@RacerX-124]

Everybody shits their pants from time to time. Appreciate you sharing your trials and mistakes.

[@gsh3159]

Great explanation of a tuff situation, keep up the great content guys

[@hpa101]

Appreciate it!

[@davey_projects2977]

Darn. That's a shame. Took the turbo out too. What a bastard.

[@hpa101]

Yup, it's hard to see how it could have gone much worse - Andre

[@grahamerosewarne8864]

Temps doing a lot better. Slow adjustment and you'll get it right now. 🤘🤘

[@rossdavis2654]

Great Kiwi style no BS vid guys

[@andrewhenry6448]

Funny seeing Ben Silcock name title coming up and thinking that's the guy sending me loads of emails. hahaha

[@hpa101]

We sometimes let him outside to take a break from that haha - Taz.

[@boosthit811]

Make sure the electric pump is not switching off because you will then loose the pressure head in the block. Possibly fit a smaller restrictior plate. 19mm max

[@hpa101]

At this point in time the engine was fitted with a stock mechanical pump - Andre

[@boosthit811]

@@hpa101 oh right. Was it running a thermostat?

[@RolandKaos]

That’s the challenge. Push to have a car partly prepped for an event and accept the consequences. Or acknowledge that your not ready and skip the event. Ultimately that’s racing. Finding that balance and accepting that there’s rarely the perfect racing conditions.

[@hpa101]

There so much involved with getting organised to go it's really hard to just not roll the dice Even the last even for the 1UZFE was almost called due knowing something wasn't right with it being 20HP down, but hotels booked, event paid for, fuel sorted etc etc etc, it's easy to just say 'we'll see'. - Taz

[@CraigOverend]

The profiling around the spark plug definitely looks like the source of the preignition. I'd clean and polish that area, and make sure the mixtures for each cylinder are the same as it looked like the engine was running lean front to back.

[@hpa101]

While the original head could likely have been recovered, with the amount of damage it was exhibiting it was easier just to source another P11 head to work with - Andre

[@nick66333]

Glad u gys made it 👍💯

[@hpa101]

Made it 'ish' 😩- Andre

[@ben7020]

Thanks for the honest video. Do you think your water speed in the head is uneven because your revving so hard? (EWP in this vid?) I've once drilled a head gasket (3mm) to avoid a common water/ air lock issue with good results. Good luck with it, im a nissan fan 👍 P.S. is it common to bridge the SR block between cylinders?

[@hpa101]

During this race we were running a mechanical pump. There's a variety of possibilities that have been raised and considered including the mechanical pump cavitating at high rpm. The head gasket we're using is pretty well proven for our application, particularly at such low boost levels so it shouldn't require modification. I'm not sure what you mean by 'bridge'? - Andre

[@ben7020]

@@hpa101 hi andre, what i meant by "bridge" was partly filling the slotted water jacket between the bores (I've heard it being done, perhaps it's a non issue) With the head gasket what i meant is occasionally they will 100% block a water jacket, thereby trapping air. I've drilled a small hole in these before to allow bleeding. Maybe what I'm saying is 2% 98% is like you think- mechanical water pump overspeed. I know in fast ski boats they talk a lot about propeller slip - its the same sort of thing as the old water pump. Good luck with it mate, it's an awesome build and I'm sure video's are coming with big smiles and beating exotic supercars 👍 Can't wait 😎

[@wrighty338]

Bin the SR20 and pop a 20B in there. Great honest content

[@Ghstwavz]

A VE+T. Nothing gets better than that.

[@Cobra427Veight]

The"sensor connection" is great for sensors .

[@WyFoster]

I like to run a water pressure sensor. First if your coolant system leaks, your pressure will read well before the temp gauge tells you. Second, if your head gasket blows, you'll notice a big pressure spike when you jump on the throttle.

[@hpa101]

We also like to run a coolant pressure sensor and in fact the engine is equipped with one. In an unfortunate twist of fate the location we choose was on the inlet to the pump which doesn't give a good idea of what's actually happening in the head where it matters. We've since rectified that issue - Andre

[@garagecedric]

So many videos lately, its great, (though people at work will soon wonder why i picked up this weird accent :)) , even though it was tough. Turbo engines in circuit racing are much more challenging in real life than on the Internetz, hopefully next race will be a success :)

[@trevorthomas6043]

Something with the BrZ and cooling .I seen built motor turbo brz cooling problems,LS turbo swap brz and cooling problems.I will be nice when you guys figure out the problem.

[@hpa101]

A lot of the issues with the cooling in the 86/BRZ chassis I believe are actually a result of poor airflow out of the radiator (which we've addressed thoroughly with our ducting). It is however hard to keep the engine cool when there's no water in the head - Andre

[@Jakedelus]

i added electric water pump in coolant system with the mechanical still in place ,and noticed when its on, coolant temps start to rising and when i turn it off, temps was falling. Somehow that electric pump messed coolant circulaiting in head. Now i use only mechanical pump, and electric one is only post cooling when engine is off, and work great on that purpose. Maybe you have samekind problem ? Coolant pass too fast head and block ? If there is room in head, add extra temp sensors front and back to head then temp differences can see in logs what is happening there :)

[@hpa101]

At this point in the build we were only using the stock mechanical water pump. We have since switched to an EWP which we will cover in the next episode - Andre

[@andoletube]

Personally, I think you should skip an event somewhere and use the time to dot all your I's and cross your T's on the car. Your reputation is important because you run a busy teaching academy in addition to all the demands of racing a car. You don't want your reputation to suffer because of being time-poor. You guys make incredible content, and you know your stuff, but there are only so many hours in a day. It would be nice to see you arriving at a race meet without looking so stressed and underprepared - granted racing always feels that way! Anyway, hope you can sort this thing out and get some results. Best of luck.

[@hpa101]

You're spot on, and that's what we're doing. There is certainly only so much we can rush through while trying to also keep business going as usual and families attended too. Hindsight can be a bit cruel but at the same time if not for some small delays things would be been different. It was a delay that kicked this engine swap off in the first place 😂 Cheers for the support mate! - Taz.

[@AmirPomen]

Regarding your afr...might be a good measure to recheck the injector flow on all 4? And what u guys think on set at slightly richer 0.75lambda for e85? 🤔

[@arcadyskoit]

These guys build a few motors that blow hard

[@martykath4427]

Did you check injector function? Have the injectors been subjected to sitting wet with it. Have seen lots of corrosion on injector parts in speedway engines using methanol.

[@hpa101]

Yup! This will come up in the next video later this week as something we checked over. These injectors were new and are fine for E85, but Andre will be able to give you more details on the system - Taz.

[@Grouiiiiik]

Doesn't it looks like an uneven air or fuel delivery to you guys? The smoking gun for me is the transition from front to back that looks like the afrs were increasingly leaner in the front. The second cylinder was already starting to follow the same path as the first which would disprove the head gasket issue being the starting point. It could be an effect (weakest link with high pressure / lean combustion) or it could be a totally separate issue. Anyway it's really sad because you all worked so hard to get there. I hope you will overcome all the troubles and come back on track better than ever!

[@hpa101]

It's always a little hard to be pin point accurate when analysing a failure. There's a variety of considerations and contributing factors at play in this situation.We have considered fuel delivery and have found some issues around this which we'll cover in a future update. The head gasket however was showing clear signs of leaking, interestingly primarily around #4 cylinder but also on #1. On E85 at such low boost, even a lean cylinder would be unlikely to cause this level of damage on its own. There will be more information around this in our next episode - Andre

[@Grouiiiiik]

@@hpa101 I agree, plus it's really easier for viewers to find clues with a limited set of informations, discarding a lot of the things you guys experienced on the dyno and the track. I can't wait the next episodes! 👍

[@Stuntlight97]

Do you have a larger pulley on the water pump? SR20 water pumps are known for cavitating at high rpm

[@hpa101]

This was a stock size pulley - Andre

[@ben7020]

Is it possible the square wave on/ off of the EWP is giving massive delays to the temperature sensor? It may well be cooking cyl 1 whilst the water temp data looks smooth. The EWP would remain off until the heat wicks its way to the sensor. In combination with head gasket water port design (i.e. bias ports to back of engine) designed for 3k rpm. I guess I'm trying to say maybe your combo has virtually no water moving past no.1, the engine teardown looks that way. As you mention 10 or 14 psi should be no issues so it's all a bit weird Good luck guys 😀

[@hpa101]

ben these build updates are lagging a little behind our webinar pre shows (this particular race was now about 4 weeks ago). Sorry for the confusion but during this race the engine was still fitted with a mechanical pump. The strategy I discussed for the EWP control still has it 100% on above 75 C hence it wouldn’t cause the sort of issues we saw here anyway - Andre

[@turbostyler]

Bugger, that's such a shit way to lunch a motor! Best of luck moving forward!

[@falkor3865]

The SR20VE was designed for FWD..do you think by running that particular head design in a RWD setup is the prob?

[@YoumomisBeautiful]

really?

[@kyleallen3857]

Add LS style steam vents a possibility to avoid air pocketing ?

[@hpa101]

It's a good suggestion however it wouldn't be very easy to access the water jacket high enough up the water jacket in the head unfortunately - Andre

[@kyleallen3857]

High Performance Academy Being first is always difficult

[@eckomob6898]

Man rough!

[@bigmuz_pilot]

Did you flow the injectors to check?

[@hpa101]

Yes we have and we will cover this in our next episode - Andre

[@amcluesent]

Blocked or faulty injector on #1? All the symptoms of leaning out - running hot, white deposits, back firing.

[@TunerNerd]

Time for 4xEGT sensors?

[@hpa101]

I explain in the video that the car is wired for a Haltech TCA8 thermocouple amplifier and 4 x Link CAN-Lambda wideband controllers for EGT and cylinder lambda measurement. Unfortunately due to the time available it wasn't feasible to get the sensors added onto the manifold before this event. It's a case of 'if only', however if we'd added the sensors we'd never have got there anyway so it's a bit of a moot point - Andre

[@spooler7828]

I know I should have EGT sensors on each port of my car. I do have one on my diesel. Ugg....

[@brianopc2586]

That is a seriously cool car

[@BIGSMOKE-bl2lq]

Do you guys tune customer cars ?

[@hpa101]

No sorry we don't do any customer tuning - Andre

[@bobbobson7882]

"Pretty melty" is the technical term right? 😂

[@hpa101]

Scientists use this all the time, particularly in reference to events such as Chernobyl and Fukushima - Andre

[@bobbobson7882]

@@hpa101 I believe the younger scientists use "melty AF" :P

[@bikeserv]

Individual EGT`s would be handy

[@hpa101]

We cover this in the video - The car is wired for EGT and individual lambda but we didn't have time to add the sensors to the manifold - Andre

[@bikeserv]

@@hpa101 yeah, I saw that later on. I like that you present all the faces of motorsport, most dont

[@smithjeremy220]

Do you have fire rings? These are proven to help with head gaskets here in NZ

[@hpa101]

The head gasket failure was the end product of another issue rather than the cause of things, if that makes sense. Andre dives into it a bit more after the 30 min mark - Taz.

[@Gidanski]

Sounds like you guys need to invest in a vacuum bleeder for the cooling system. Can't get an air bubble in the cooling system if there's no air to begin with!

[@SuprSi]

that's all well and good, but doesn't help if your head gasket is leaking...

[@Gidanski]

I know that but if the gasket did reseal under some kind of unbelievably lucky circumstance it would have been a good tool for checking integrity (holding vaccum) and refilling the system with little to no chance of airlocks.

[@anthonyparle7342]

Taz, I will bet you 50 buck you still have the heater core in the dash, electric water pumps and heater cores don't go together, trust me, I leant the hard way. You have my email if you want me to tell you the issue of heater core. Your coolant temps prove my point.

[@hpa101]

Anthony Parle there’s a heater core in the dash but it’s just along for the ride. It’s no longer connected. We're going into summer so should be good 😎 - Andre

[@anthonyparle7342]

@@hpa101 Sorry thought you had changed the water pump at this time. You guys are doing t hard, feel for you.

[@hpa101]

@Mcgoogoo well technically he's right - the heater core is in the dash? Maybe we call this one even? - Andre

[@muntz0r]

Hows the new shifter?

[@hpa101]

Matt H the new shifter is 👌🏻

[@SR_KSERIES]

Hi, is it Sr20VE+T (Turbo added) or Sr20VET?

[@hpa101]

Pretty much everything in this is aftermarket now. It started life as a DE + VE head from a P11 Primera - Taz.

[@0643052]

👌

[@zeno15sti33]

Man if it wasn't for bad luck.

[@hpa101]

You make your own luck, for better or worse. We have certainly learnt some lessons about being overly optimistic with our timeframes vs workloads, however, at least for you guys it has made for some good content so that's a win haha - Taz.

[@ky1e200]

bugger

[@chaserevstuning9271]

You guys should k20z1 swap the brz and slap a turbo on her. Sr20 is old and not as reliable.

[@hpa101]

While I'd rate the K20 as one of the best 4 cylinder N/A engines out there, the SR20 VVL head is a very close second. It's important to understand that the VVL head is VERY different to a regular DE/DET head. Ironically there's about 4 years between the introduction of the SR20 VVL and the K20 so they're hardly generations apart. Ultimately though we had a built SR20 VE engine sitting in the shop. We didn't have a K20, so which engine is better becomes a bit of a moot point - Andre

[@slws14]

The spark plug damaged the turbo. Not heat.

[@satanaz]

it was melted, no broken

[@hpa101]

No, I'm sorry that's not the cause of the damage to the turbo. Watch the end of the video as I explain the failure mode in detail - Andre

[@jordanallen1862]

expensive failure... new turbo, new head + machine work to re-fresh the head. I'd stongly recomend moving to 12mm GTiR head studs or even 12.5/1/2" head studs when you put this all back together. Lifing the head on an SR with OEM sized 10mm head studs when pushing past 300RWkW is a known problem. It's so well known, that Nissan made the GTiR with 12mm head bolts ;) as this was the race engine and they wanted to ensure reliability. Know the feeling all too well of investing lost of time and money for it to all fall in a hole.

[@hpa101]

The these heads are pretty cheap here luckily (Ben had sourced 2 before we even left the track), but certainly not a cheap exercise on the whole. I'm not sure on the stud situation, Andre will address this in a video as some stage as it's come up in the comments before however the setup on this engine is well tried and tested - Taz.

[@hpa101]

We're running Mazworx 11 mm studs which are proven more than capable of supporting the sort of power and boost levels we're aiming for. Switching to a GTiR 12 mm stud actually creates as many headaches as it solves since the threads in the block aren't compatible and there isn't enough material available to cut new threads. This leaves you with the option of helicoiling the block or sourcing an N14 block. The preferable option is a set of 1/2" studs but the extra clamping these studs generate distorts the head - Ideally then the valve lash needs to be set with the head installed and the valve seats need to be cut with a torque plate bolted to the head, otherwise valve seal will be affected. Ultimately we didn't have sufficient time to consider any of these alternatives anyway - Andre

[@datssan]

Dang that’s terrible

[@alltheboost5363]

Only watched the first 5 minutes of the video. I'm surprised you guys even went to the track. you should have put it on the dyno and tested... you should have tested the head gasket. if there was exhaust gases in the coolant or not. if there was you shouldn't have gone. Remember it's not magic or watchful thinking. If your coolant system is blowing all over your engine under boost. there's a problem and if you keep driving it ... it's going to cost a lot of money.

[@hpa101]

all the boost everything is easy in hindsight however we didn’t have that benefit at 11pm the night before the race meeting. I’d actually suggest you also finish watching the video as it explains our decision making. As a side note a TK test is useless for a turbo engine that’s lifting the head since combustion gases only make it into the cooling system under boost. At idle the test will be negative - Andre

[@cwhaaatt]

I would describe sr20 engines as fragile

[@hpa101]

This failure is certainly not the fault of the SR20 and just about any engine would have suffered a similar fate with the same situation - Andre

[@jordanallen1862]

That turbine housing and turbine wheel almost look like you've been running leaded petrol. mmmm, Avgas

[@ooookrisoooo]

Time for a rotary swap me thinks!!

[@hpa101]

well there would b e no chance of the head lifting I suppose 🤔- Andre

[@AmirPomen]

@@hpa101 nope.. just casually spitting out apex seals or welded shut side seals..lol

[@scottb4029]

Tough day racing is still better than any day working. I guess the the glow plug in the number 1 cylinder explains the large backfire you had as you lifted before the turn, Andre. Maybe you should just let Ben drive, he's never had any problems with the engine while he's driving....... oh wait......nevermind.

[@coreyfreedom9859]

What happened to the first upload

[@andrewrozvora9305]

The chatting over the radio original video didn't have sound if I recall, as I two saw the original upload

[@shanegraves460]

Eventually will you run individual port EGT sensors at all times for racing? Would you treat these sensors as a service part running for X amount of hours then changing? - essentially would you worry about them failing and passing through the turbo under a race/ extended use condition? And along the same lines is there value added with a Post-Turbo EGT sensor, once you know your heat losses across your manifold from your - now removed - port EGT sensors. (less concern if it fractures and travels down the exhaust) Better luck next time!

[@hpa101]

Yes we would run the sensors all the time, not just for tuning. We prefer using enclosed tip sensors because if a sensor fails there's no chance of anything going through the turbo. We may add a post turbo EGT sensor for interest sake in the future - Andre

[@shanegraves460]

Thanks for the reply! will keep an eye on the progress as its something I would like to implement on my engine build. Look forward to seeing the car back up and running. Cheers

[@Marco.Pantologist]

Consider running surface discharge spark plugs, if ones are available for your particular engine type. Don't waste your time with any other brand of spark plug. Go for NGK. The failure of those spark plugs looks to me more of a preignition issue, coupled with an overheating cylinder or two, i.e. higher EGT's, etc. Also, the heat range is far too warm for a motorsport application. I would run no less than a 10 step cold spark plug. If you run E85 at times, you will require a 0.4mm spark plug gap for best performance. Surface discharge plugs are manufactured to 0.4mm. If an alternative race plug is used, they usually have a 0.6mm standard gap...you will need to bring it down to a 0.4mm gap.

[@richardboyk3493]

That's what we run on our 3.1 liter 13.0 CR Datto L-6. NGK #BUE Surface Discharge. No more fiddling about indexing plugs either. They should fit the 86 engine. Standard Japanese size of 14mm with 19mm reach. Flat gasket. I was thinking the same thing that 8's are too hot for Road Racing. Surface Gap eliminates that issue altogether. Needs a strong ignition system though. Should be readily available in OZ as Jet Ski's use them. In Canada they are used in Snowmobiles. Cheap to buy as well.

[@richardboyk3493]

Most of the Turbo guys around here run NGK 9's for Road Racing or Track days. With Turbo Motors. Cylinder head with central location of Plugs should be good for a Surface Gap style. We had to go that route on our motor because of Minimal clearance to Piston dome. Retracted Gap or Conical style NGK Racing plugs were something like $28 CDN each. Surface Gap BUE plugs were only $8 CDN each.

[@Marco.Pantologist]

@@richardboyk3493 With regards to a stronger ignition system. Yes, I agree. We run M&W CDI Ignition Systems on all our race cars.

[@El_Chompo]

Always love the in depth technical gritty details you don't get anywhere else Andre, thank you. So the gasket failed which stopped cooling to cylinder 1, which caused the spark plug to blow apart which then began glowing red hot and causing pre-ignition for an entire lap which super heated that cylinder enough to melt away some aluminum. It's too bad that individual EGT sensors are so involved to put in. I feel like there would be a market for EGT sensors that simply wrap around the header pipes instead of having to be bung welded in. It wouldn't give you the exact same reading, there would be a slight delay and lower reading temp but you could easily just offset the reading and make an educated guess, and it would hopefully still be close enough to avoid catastrophe. Also it would be nice because if they were wrapped around the outside they wouldn't interrupt flow either.

[@Str33tSupra]

Sorry your guys' "content" had to be so tragic. Thanks for giving such detailed and informative information. Maybe it will save one of us keyboard warriors some dosh in the future sometime. 100% convinced on individual EGT sensors now..

[@Vgk36]

Another can that can gut you noatter how well you treat her is !!?? A Z32 ! Lol . But seriously you guys have the best motorsports content ! Sorry this happened but you guys are fuckin champs and will come back !

[@worlow1841]

Wait. They see all the Temps in the pit!? How do you do that?

[@hpa101]

We run a MoTeC T2 telemetry system with a cellular modem/receiver 🤓 - Andre

[@worlow1841]

@@hpa101 Thanks!

[@mrmidnight32]

Love these series man! You guys keep it up. I’ve learned so much and now I’m loving the new racing show. It’s better than TV!

[@hpa101]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@glenbaker7693]

Tuner's fault. Always. Blame. The. Tuner 🤓

[@Factory400]

Makeup of motorsports: .999% Thrills .001% Glory 99% Total soul crushing disappointment 1000% of all the money you will ever have.

[@hpa101]

+55% shiny new things - Taz.

[@BjornFSE]

@16:25 still watching but I really hope using a "Used" head gasket that has already been heat cycled just to get things going from some other engine is a joke. lol I forgot the joke part. that was a joke right? Good video, can see some future content coming from this RE tuning courses etc. only concern is the "It is what it is" nahhhhh, Shhh happens but keep on moving on. Period.

[@hpa101]

With an MLS head gasket they are actually reuseable provided they haven't previously been leaking or similar. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly not the preferred option but when you're stuck at the bottom of NZ you do what you have to do sometimes - Andre

[@limitlessbuilds]

I’m definitely not the expert here, but my first thought was you had an injector failure of some type. It looked like it just got really lean, therefore the excessive temp, then the head gasket. Could something like this also be a cause? If it couldn’t be the cause, what would you see differently if it was?

[@SuprSi]

Andre spells out what happened in the video, headgasket had previously failed during tuning, meaning there was gas getting pushed into the cooling passages, under acceleration that air bubble will be at the front of the engine, so the cylinder head in #1 cylinder overheats and begins to melt... That caused the spark plug electrode to also melt since it couldn't get rid of the heat (nearly killing the engine through pre-ignition)... After the ground strap was destroyed enough that cylinder could no longer fire, so it was sending a full unburnt charge of fuel/air into the exhaust manifold where it ignites and torches the turbine. Running lean alone would not have melted the head if there was actually coolant there, probably would have melted a piston instead if that was the case.

[@limitlessbuilds]

Si yeah I watched it all. Just wasn’t sure if a leaned out cylinder could cause the same damage. Didn’t know it would be mostly the piston as I haven’t torn one apart like that yet. Thanks!

[@westonlieberum1]

Love this long video and in-depth look at a everything also would a egt gauge on each cylinder of saved from this failure? Update nevermind didn’t watch til 28 minutes before writing comment

[@hpa101]

haha no worries, this is a long one. We managed to do the fab work since this video and they're in there now - Taz.

[@tfaubus]

very fascinating, thanks for the analysis

[@mikejovi980]

Shit happens.. Back to it chop chop!

[@SouthlandFlyer]

Thanks for the update. I was looking for an update since I heard that it didn't have a good weekend. Pretty surprised to hear all it all happened on e85, but then its not a foolproof solution. On a side note, have you considered pushing for a NZ Hillclimb Championship title. Came to mind after hearing that docile might be going back on gravel etc. Great title to shoot for.

[@hpa101]

E85 is certainly helpful but it's not a silver bullet and you can still have issues. I'd love to try for the hillclimb championship but DOCILE is probably not the platform to do it with. The whole package is a little too focussed on straight line performance sadly - Andre

[@SouthlandFlyer]

@@hpa101 oh I must have picked up something wrong somewhere, I thought it was getting built up for hillclimbs.

[@scottwyman5014]

To be brutally honest I've just listened to 40 minutes of excuses. My car's (I have 3) are 'ready' at least a week before an Event. If they are not ready they are not ready and your car was not....... Expensive lessons guys that you didn't need for sure. Gather your thoughts without emotion, build a solid package, well sort it then enjoy.

[@scottwyman5014]

Had a thought about something I ran across twice a few years back. There was something about your 'blowing water out' that kept nagging me. I awoke the other night and said 'yep, I remember'. What I remembered was when I was into Speedway this Ford six cylinder car kept blowing H/G's. Every man and his dog had a Theory and many tried to fix it but the failures kept happening (11 H/G in total). Of note I was the Crew Chief for a Holden multiple Championship Team. Anyway surprisingly the Ford Team Owner /Driver came to my Home literally begging for help. The Owner said it would be the end of his racing days and would I at least take a look. Eventually he left the car with me and I began testing things. After 4 days I began by pulling the Head. Hmmm the Head was nice and flat. A bit thin after being resurfaced many times but still flat. Double hmmm - so being thorough I borrowed a large measuring device and set it up so I could measure from the Crank Centerline to the Deck Height. The front of the Block was lower than the rear but not by a lot but enough to cause an issue. But I kept looking a I wasn't entirely convinced. Next I checked the Deck for flatness and found while it was really flat the Head Bolt Threads in the Deck had all 'pulled' and the got considerably worse toward the front. That did it for me I ripped the engine out, found a reasonable block, got it bored and prepped etc and reassembled and put it back in the car. BUT before the Ford Owner could have it back I insisted on Dyno run's by my favourite Shop. Well guess what, it did another H/G on the Dyno on 10.5:1. Hmmm right took it back to my place replaced H/G and started looking again. Another day or so later I reverse pressurized the Fuel Line and found the culprit - a cracked weld where the Pick Up Tube went into the Tank. Carby System so not a lot of PSI there but enough for it to lean off at full noise. Pulled the Tank, did the repairs, went back to Dyno where it was quite strong for it's class of engine. The Owner Qualified next to us on the front Row for the Feature, put a pass on my Driver and we couldn't catch him. We went on to win another Championship. I seen that Deck problem twice and have heard of it a couple of other times in the fifty or so years I've been in racing. Hope this insight gives you other things to check because I'm not convinced you just have a Cooling Issue on E85 and 14 pounds of boost.