This crazy situation should be fixed

[@danh6720]

It makes USPSA uninteresting for the same reason D&D looks uninteresting.

[@BenStoeger187]

Great way of putting it

[@ripdoinksinamish]

If you haven’t played DnD or other tabletop games definitely give it a go. There’s a lot of ways to play so it’s likely you will find something to enjoy. Definitely isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, though.

[@Pappy7064]

@@ripdoinksinamish I'd rather spend my time dating women then play DnD. But hey to each their own.

[@The_Disaster_Box]

D&D players hate rules lawyers to.

[@The_Disaster_Box]

@@Pappy7064every time I hear someone say that, I’m 90% sure they never done ether one.

[@amosmoses9247]

If it was actually a safety issue and the RO knew what was going to happen, and didnt stop the action, then the RO is negligent and that needs to be addressed.

[@NDcompetitiveshooter]

Which, in reality, proves he knew deep down that it was not an unsafe act.

[@tostado22]

Yeah that was a "oh I got you now, fucker" moment

[@KSwanson-r7g]

It seems that from the moment these two saw each other that day they were both ready to go to war over rule x8.3rt.whatever. Which is really unfortunate on for so many reasons.

[@lewisshemery2585]

Dude yelled, "Stop" so hard he ran out of breath.

[@jonfeder]

he sounds like he needed his blood pressure checked 50 pounds ago

[@papabear2965]

He definitely locks up his gun and ammo in separate places

[@markanthonypar-wise1499]

😭😂

[@Saboteur_91]

@@papabear2965 his wife’s boyfriend said it’s safer that way

[@jgrunthaner]

I’m sure someone said “i could see down the barrel”

[@randalljeffs7272]

Fifteen years ago at my first competition I showed up with my crappy gear and knowing no one. I had practiced for more than a year to be ready to shoot a match and not embarrass myself. (I now know I should have just started showing up as soon as I got into shooting.) I was nervous and didn’t really know range commands. The RO had me step up to the first shooting position and asked me if I “understood the course of fire.” I said yes and being nervous I looked down at my holster and patted my gun. I didn’t draw my gun or anything. The RO then tried to DQ me for touching the gun before I was told to “load and make ready.” Some of the other shooters were really nice and knew it was my first match. They knew that this RO was a jerk and told me to go get the match director. I went and got him, the match director overruled the DQ and I got to shoot the match. But if that jerk RO had got his way, I would have been DQd and probably never would have shot competition again. These anal ROs are a real danger to the future of the sport.

[@Six_One_Six]

If i were the match director, said RO would be told he's not welcome on the property. People who are intentionally toxic like that narcissist will ruin anything they touch.

[@notice9218]

Very common. Power corrupts, even the tiny amount an RO has.

[@Six_One_Six]

@@notice9218 damn...i generally dont like people, but when i show up to a match I try to make it so everyone wants to shoot my stage...I'll cheer anyone on. If someone's clearly new, i'll let them know what gets you DQ'd take extra time...what happens to the sport when nobody wants to show out?

[@mrgoodkat8567]

My question because i truly dont know, is if the ro saw he was drawing from appendix, why not turn or instruct the shooter to square up his body down range so he cant “flag or point” up range on the draw?

[@ctrackthezer0]

Why would touching the unloaded gun be a DQ why is that a rule? Sounds like the type of guy that get jumpy when someone points a gun at the camera in a KZbin video. Schizophrenic behavior.

[@not_that_jon_guy]

that RO has been practicing to pull off a sub second "STHAP" all year.

[@AlexanderSotelo]

@@not_that_jon_guy 💯

[@mkozek5753]

FUDD

[@swiftaudi]

The range officer knew he was going to yell stop. And in that case he should have proactively told him I don’t want you doing it this way.

[@kdworak4754]

This makes the most sense.

[@mynamejef7963]

Then he wouldn’t have got to yell stop and impose his power

[@Maxter119]

I quit my local IDPA, because of an RO just like this guy. It got so bad that the club later got rid of IDPA.

[@mkozek5753]

now I'm discouraged from even joining....

[@asanti76]

@@mkozek5753just go don’t worry about this but I agree, I this was my first match and that RO DQ’d me…. I’d never come back

[@Eric_from_Kansas]

Pretty gay of the club to get rid of the whole program when they could have just gotten rid of a shit RO.

[@grzegorzzak1109]

As soon as competitions start being more about technicalities, than skills, they become pointless.

[@jediknight1294]

Any competition you need to know the rules, USPSA and IPSC the big problem is the rules SOUND technical and an authority but... Are actually incredibly open to interpretation. The problem is very few people are willing to pony up the 40$ match fee at a local and MAKE them go through the Arb.

[@FocusTripp]

Are we sure the RO just didn't want to follow him around on the stage? He sounded like he was about to die.

[@_Art.Vandelay]

Dude sounds like he gets out of breath getting out of bed

[@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw]

Hey! It's Hops butt buddy ❤

[@prestigiouschili7911]

@@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw🍑👈🏻

[@wheelguns4wheelmen802]

As a lawyer, I love it when someone whips out a rule cite and totally owns someone who is wrongly calling them out. But I could see why non-lawyers could be turned off by that. In any event, this was a bad call. It’s like calling 181 degree break. No way anyone can see 179 v 181 by any level of certainty. If it’s safe, I would not call it.

[@blodus4521]

Some of the old guys just wait around to utter the phrase "you know what you did right?" at the slightest infraction.

[@TheRedneckPreppy]

I will *always* take the over on hearing that during a competition if someone gets DQ'ed.

[@SilasWeber-oi2gb]

Bruhhh I got that exact same line when some old fart DQ me

[@MrNgMichael]

It's the same BS when cops do that. Comes from a power trip moment.

[@derrick11boutain]

Always make them explain it to you. Even if you clearly know the reason. I want them to show me, not the other way around.

[@TacticalConsiderations]

Range Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudds

[@just9911]

The RSO is just angry at the world because he can’t remember the last time he was able to look down and see his junk.

[@ORiley-3Gun]

Enough of the elder abuse Sonny.

[@just9911]

@@ORiley-3Gunthat’s not elder abuse. It’s a statement about him being incredibly out of shape.

[@MrPaglissi]

The reality is, it’s hard to watch this video and not have the impression that this was a bated ambush and that the RO could not wait to DQ someone for it. The flash to bang between draw and DQ was immediate. He was waiting for it. Bad for the sport.

[@vanniek71]

100% Unfortunately there are a few of these types out there.

[@chefmatt6299]

Stoeger for President of USPSA. MUSPSAGA

[@felixdewinter3484]

MUSP SAGA sounds like a brand of jelly spread for toast

[@n0tthemessiah]

Had an experience with an RO like that at a state shooting range; he was just looking for reasons to flex his authority and scream people. I was testing a few different rounds with a rifle that I had just fit a new muzzle brake onto, wanted to make sure I could get a zero with weight on the barrel. I specifically asked and waited for the booth at the end of the range so there would only be someone to the right of me and no one on my left, just to minimize how much it might affect other shooters. I shot maybe one round per minute because I was trying to be extremely thorough and meticulous about my positioning, technique, etc. I got a couple of rounds off before the dude next to me asks the RO for help with his rifle. So RO is fiddling with this dude's gun 5 feet away and after a minute or so I send off a round -- he immediately walks to my booth, gets right in my face and yells "Can't you fucking wait!? Can you not shoot for five fucking minutes?!". He never said anything to me before, there isn't any range rule about not shooting if an RO is in the booth next to you, and it was a hot range with at least a dozen other people still shooting. I didn't even say anything to him, I just started getting my shit together and left as fast as I could. Not a great look when someone with a temper and looking to start shit with anyone at a moment's notice is also an authority figure carrying a gun.

[@BlackSheepPractical]

I literally hate the RO’s voice

[@Thatguy11351]

Especially when he says “unload and show clear.” 😂

[@n0tthemessiah]

@@Thatguy11351 You can practically hear the chamber to his second stomach halfway through the sentence

[@steve4462]

Yup. His tone sounded like he was looking forward to DQing this guy.

[@nchintalapani]

The rules are meant to foster a safe environment, the DQ is unnecessary. The dude was facing downrange and no safety rules were broken. I have seen such R.O's go on a power trip and I have had most RO's advise me on drawing within rules while appendix carrying before the buzzer goes off. To those who taught me and advised me, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.These pedantic rules are a buzz kill for most newbies.

[@williamcooper2496]

Spot on... That's why I'll never be a USPSA "newbie." I have zero interest in dealing with B.S.

[@mabutarif]

That’s the issue. Many RSOs go to the range just to flex muscles and be jerks. That’s why I stopped going to competitions and hate going to many ranges.

[@Proton_Decay]

It needs to be said out loud when debating what rules should be (your "zoom-out" is much more than an opinion!): The USPSA is a 501(c)3 non-profit, the range is most likely also a non-profit. Per their non-profit charters, their literal reason for existing is to educate the public about and to encourage participation in shooting sports. That's the north star -- any "safety" rules where the RO literally stands by waiting for you to act unsafely works against that north star, so either the rule is broken or the RO is broken. Imagine in a televised NFL game, the referees all waited and watched as a team prepared for something they knew to be unsafe, and waited for them to execute before calling it out to issue a penalty, it would be a PR shit-storm.

[@kechme]

Great video. Seems to me that the 180 rule is an important rule but why are there so many 180 trap stages? Why plan a stage that makes me shoot at 178 degrees? I’m not a fan of those stages.

[@echosierra7556]

…and the rules state not to create “180 traps”

[@lazaruswws]

Range Officer just jealous because he too fat to carry appendix. Can the RO actually see where the weapon is pointed from his position behind the shooter? Seems like he made the decision to call it before he saw it.

[@n4d3m4n]

If this is how all USPSA is ruled, Then having a slight forward cant on a 3:00 holster should also DQ you for just drawing down range. The gun directly out of the holster is still slightly breaking the 180 in the exact same way as an appendix holster to the left.

[@JoshsGameClub]

Which is why the exception is made in the rules. There's a similar rule and exception in IDPA, which I shot for a while. It makes allowance for the draw stroke. RO was dildough.

[@henrylui6239]

Yes, we the people overseas DQ those who set their holster like this too😂 And we don’t allow concealed carry holster. The holster cant policy was setup for fair and safety to make sure no one is drawing unsafe or having huge advantage by setting his muzzle already pointing the target from the holster.

[@pa3gungal]

This is not how USPSA is ruled. The RO was in the wrong. As with all DQs, in this case the match director was called and they overturned the DQ. The video looks bad, but this was a case of a dickhead RO not knowing the rules and the escalation process worked.

[@mattrognstad]

Two bits I'd add: 1. An important aspect of this is that Troy (head boss of ROs) came up with this rule interpretation and pushed it on ROs at major matches, even though it is against the plain language of the rule, which is clearly talking about starts where you are facing an unsafe direction. That obviously wasn't the case here. 2. When I was protesting USPSA, so many people talked about the rule book as though it is a godsend and essential to good matches. It actually seems to get you crap like this when the DNROI and some ROs feel empowered to bend the rules to mean whatever they want

[@jediknight1294]

I'm fairly sure Troy isn't a native English speaker or he just genuinely has a profound learning disability because some of his interpretations are just crackpipe.

[@Osprey1994]

Just watched a video on this rule a few days ago, and it's really terribly penned. Agree with Ben 100%. I also really can't stress that the rule seems terribly written, and it either should be repealed or rewritten in a way that prevents people from being DQ'd off the draw for an absolute nothingburger.

[@LFAnon]

LOL this is why people think competition is gay great take from ben here

[@Eric_from_Kansas]

🙋

[@kylehill4437]

I agree this is ridiculous, the RO shouldve been proactive and reasonable about it, if he's truly concerned about safety, then help contribute to safety. Rules should make things easier for the end user, not make it more difficult.

[@jpablos80]

Kind of the same is currently happening in IPSC in Argentina. At least in the region I used to shoot at. DISGUSTING. Thanks for bringing it up bro. 👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻

[@mousemx1534]

That RO makes me embarrassed that I’m an RO.

[@Bane_Diesel]

I remember as a brand new uspsa shooter the RO asked me "shooter are you sure you're ready?" My optic cover was still on. After I put on during the rain.

[@abolishtheatfandrepealthenfa]

It's honestly 100% my biggest apprehension about getting involved. Been debating it heavily for a year.

[@davereloader8837]

Find a chill local match and you won't regret it. Vast majority are super cool and helpful. I promise you that.

[@abolishtheatfandrepealthenfa]

@davereloader8837 i appreciate this. I'll try to find something nearby

[@JoshuaE-BiblePatriot]

lol guy turned around and knew the code already. Wild. Wild

[@SinistralRifleman]

This small sampling is of shitty attitude/rules enforcement is common to USPSA experience whenever I’ve tried participating in it. The biggest problems I’ve had at multigun and 2 gun events have been USPSA range officers applying their mindset and rules to a sport where they don’t apply.

[@jediknight1294]

It's very regional, iv had more shitty ro experiences with Idpa than USPSA, the old books 'failure to do right' and the subjective nature of so much of it allowed this kind of RO to royally fuck things for people. This is annother example of that RO using an inteoretation that defies the plain text of the rules because Troy thinks it's how English works.

[@Jesse-xp4lf]

Anyone else using Ben’s targets on the wall for dry fire practice? 😆

[@kdworak4754]

If you're not you're wrong

[@Realandrewmccall]

Right here 😅

[@Downfal1]

4 times a week 200-300 rounds a session.

[@scotttyler9774]

Not a competitive shooter,but I've played competitive sports my entire life. The official who says " hey, you're getting close on this. I'll have to call it if you do it again " gets respect from everyone. It's the human factor. Maybe the previous official let it go. Telling the shooter " I see you are appendix draw. I'm going to the 180 rule strict" Problem solved before hand.

[@joshuabaker5712]

Can't do that per rules at a major match. At a local sure.

[@FluffPuffkotj]

"Range rules are not safety rules". Most competition guys I have interacted with do not understand that. Which is why I don't attend these sort of events.

[@SteveSnom]

I RO under IPSC rules and that would not be a DQ. More importantly if there is a competitor who may be in a start position that is not consistent with the Course Briefing then the RO can't start until the competitor complies with the range brief. Likewise, if there is an equipment issue that may cause a rule breach that needs to be addressed before starting.. Just bad ROing on all levels

[@sillybears9865]

so the RO is standing literally on the 180, directly behind the guy where he almost 100% can't see his muzzle and calls a 180 on the draw over some holster rules voodoo?

[@swiftaudi]

I shot appendix for two years. Some people just can’t get past appendix being a thing and then they make every situation unsafe in their own head. Fortunately none of those people ran my local club. But major marches or state matches were a 💩 show.

[@roflchopter11]

RO is probably also a cop AND an HOA board member.

[@Tact_mo]

He isn’t

[@DRFUZY1]

“You don’t go train enough! You need to be training in competitive shooting matches.” Competitive shooting match RSOs:

[@fmatthew5876]

This is why I don't do competitive shooting. I train for self defense and all these nerd rules are going build terrible habits.

[@DanDan-cl7em]

I dig this Next chapter: Stoeger vs RSOs

[@rfbradley5]

This should never be a DQ situation but if so it should be a DQ for the RO because: If truly a safety issue and the RO observes the “unsafe” holster angle at start position yet continues to say “stand by” and hit the start beep, allowing the gun to draw at the “unsafe” angle, the RO is even more at fault than the unwitting shooter for whatever supposedly unsafe thing occurred.

[@benardo8]

Well said… I love USPSA … but this is exactly why young guys hate it… I came from the 3 gun world….and I watched guys in the early USPSA Multigun days…get DQed from putting an unloaded and flagged rifle into a bag improperly.

[@byronbranch4645]

Lol. No way. That's crazy

[@onpsxmember]

Was that about the area they were in? Handling & loading area? Sounds weird.

[@benardo8]

The guys that were DQed was for not having their muzzle of the rifle/shotgun directly facing berm when removing the firearm from the bag/cart at the safe table… the ROs were calling it “flagging the crowd”….but no one was flagged…and the rifle/shotgun was cleared/chamber flagged…this is annoying…yes…a safety issue…not even close…

[@benardo8]

Not to mention…that when every competitor at the match walks up to to the stage with a rifle/shotgun in his magical gun bag…the muzzle of both firearms are pointed directly at your pelvis…but I guess a canvas gun bag is bullet proof…

[@LockTimeClarity]

Good video Ben, you are 100% correct. Spot on. This is a discouragement to pistol shooters wanting to participate. Is appendix carry be permitted for USPSA? The RO set this shooter up.

[@modernsoul6590]

Uspsa is as fun or not based on the people who participate. I have been encouraged and felt very welcomed. I have also run into ro’s like the one in the video. There are also competitors who take it way too seriously and have melt downs when things don’t go their way.

[@SuspiciousGanymede]

Range rules and pushy ROs got me to quit going to the public range near me. Every time i went there were new rules that didn't stop people from being flagged or muzzled. Private ranges and private events are much more forgiving.

[@pitts3219]

I was considering shooting my first match with US PCA until I saw this footage. Forget it I don’t need the headache!

[@John-lz3hf]

I'm going to save my time and money and avoid the whole thing. Great response to leadership, though.

[@NeSPyS]

I'm a casual match shooter. I might shoot 5-10 matches a year. Started in 2018, and while I have not been DQd (yet), I have witnessed similar situations twice in different states, one in IDPA, one in USPSA. Leaves a bad taste for months. Last one was a 180 "break" for a reload done in the shooters workspace while facing downrange. Absolute insanity. Also, the people that pull this crap are always fat. Just an observation.

[@chrisdiceart]

And this is why I've never shot IDPA - the FuD "Failure to do right" rule... hopefully USPSA isn't heading down this path. The goal should be to have fun and be safe. Rule breakage or not - the RO is a FUD A@@hole for teeing up the guy without saying anything just to DQ him.

[@Gun_Dork]

But… this is USPSA.

[@JeromeJBecker]

@@Gun_Dork The main reason @chrisdiceart brought up The IDPA the "Failure To Do Right" rule is because it often gets applied by Range Officers subjectively instead of objective violations of the rules or safety. An example in USPSA would be Troy McManus, Range Officer Institute Director, having a unwritten rule that the top of the slide should be used as a reference when applying 180 break calls despite no where in the rulebook stating this to be a violation of the 180. Troy has given this unwritten rule speech to ROs at big matches and I bet the Range Officer in the video Stoeger discussed has this same mentality. If USPSA keeps going down the same road as IDPA with all its arguments over rules that weren't violated or DQing when it was not unsafe, then it will continue to push away shooters toward alternate shooting sports.

[@keithkarp]

@@JeromeJBeckerwhat other alternative shooting sports are out there that don’t have all this bs? I want to be safe and have fun. It’s videos like this that’s kept me from Even trying my hand.

[@Gun_Dork]

@@JeromeJBecker granted I’ve only been shooting IDPA for 3 years now, and have shot majors, SO a few majors, but I have never seen, heard, or given a Failure To Do Right. Maybe I’ve been fortunate in having great SOs, maybe I’ve been fortunate in being a balanced SO myself, which I feel is an extension of that home club. But back to your point, I’ve never seen it levied.

[@wcw2793]

I shot an indoor match years ago (when Production was still the division to shoot) where we all used our EDC guns and holsters. I was one of the few guys that had an edge since I actually practiced with my carry gun and my AIWB holster. It was a struggle bus for everyone else cause they’re used to shooting their Tanfos and Open guns. When a competitor was told to make ready, he made his DA/SA gun (SIG P228 I believe) and holstered it but forgot to hit the decocker. The RO had every opportunity to stop him and go, “hey man, don’t forget to hit your decocker.” He didn’t though. As soon as the guy holstered his gun, the RO went, “aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnddd you’re DQ’d.” It was a dick move and that was honestly the last time we had that type of match. This attitude from ROs is toxic and doesn’t need to be welcomed in USPSA. It does nothing but discourage people from coming back.

[@skibidibobsir]

It reminds me of the three step rule in NBA and how it famously wasn't enforced on star players like Michael Jordan.

[@damnmillennials3913]

You should keep that *mini IPSC target in the background of every video. Makes for a great dry fire target when watching your videos

[@A4Blue-m7n]

That clip makes me not want to do USPSA

[@ES_Competitive]

The problem is USPSA’s definition of breaking the 180 if the front of the holster crosses on the draw. It should be where your muzzle is pointed.

[@xtreamar1550]

I was running a USPSA match this last Sunday and the RO told me to watch my 180 when I was re holstering . I wasn’t aware that I broke it but I said sorry.. no problem and that was it. We went on with our day. This guy is just being an asshole

[@carlb86]

I turned left on an facing uprange start at a level II. When they had an RO posted directly on the fault line just hoping to DQ people at that stage. After the unload and show clear the RO was actually critical of me and lamented, "you turned the wrong way."

[@MSH4U]

Typical USPSA, if you’re going to allow appendix carry in competition, the start position should be described in the stage description, the same thing that they do with PCC. The RO should have had that discussion when the guy walked up.

[@rolotomase1440]

The problem is RO's looking to DQ somebody vs. ensuring things are done safely. If the RO knew something unsafe was going to happen - he shouldn't have stopped it right there.

[@chrisd.7616]

I’ll be totally honest I haven’t shot any matches in uspsa however I can’t see what the hell he did wrong. I don’t even see how he broke the 180.

[@evey0259]

I think it's because it was appendix. The rules are generally based on the expectation that the holster is forward facing. It's a badly written rule.

[@rayr1642]

Take a look at the red boundaries by his feet. You can see that the rest of the firing lane is almost at 90 degrees to his right. Because he turned to the left with an appendix holster before the stage started, the orientation of his gun breaks the 180 degree rule even before it came out. If his holster had been on his right hip, the gun would not have broken the 180 plane.

[@derekparker3945]

The fact that the "FBI cant" is accommodated for but not AIWB is pretty strange. Appendix is the most prevalent carry method for civilians and I really applaud anyone getting competition reps from there. IMO it's something that should be acceptable and accommodations made for it going forward in USPSA.

[@Inawoods]

You've got to re name uspsa if you're not gonna allow actual Practical Shooting in the practical shooting association

[@nektarioscatlett6264]

It’s really funny because a lot of standard owb setups are pointed slightly back and technically break 180 to clear the holster

[@AlexanderSotelo]

What stands out to me is that the RO was ready to call “Stop,” and the shooter was prepared to challenge the DQ by citing the rules. This suggests there may have been prior discussion about this specific rule. That said, I think this is a questionable call. The rule, as written, clearly applies to situations where the shooter is facing uprange or moving uprange. Enforcing it in a way that contradicts the plain wording of the rule is unacceptable. If DNROI can interpret and enforce rules however he sees fit, then what’s the point of having written rules at all?

[@jediknight1294]

That is why Troy needs to go. He's done this shit a LOT

[@mdbm777]

This was clearly a problem prior to the camera going live. The RO and shooter were prepared the have this fight

[@KartSmarter]

RO decided he was going to DQ the shooter before the draw even happened. If the reason we have the 180 rule is safety, why wait until the shooter does what you 100% know he’s about to do before you stop him.

[@SAR0311]

Having never shot a match or even observed a match but always curious I am one of the ones who needs to have that broken down and explained this way. It does not look very fun or inviting to see how quick and easy you can get dq'd for such a subtle and technical violation.

[@rikhansen4574]

Love the honest critique

[@Olivehollow]

As someone who has a range at my house, If I came to a competition and this happened to me I would never come back. Would definitely be seen as a waste of my time. But I guess I just wouldn’t draw from Appendix at USPSA since the rules around it seem such a fine line.

[@ghostbear4417]

Lifetime Ban re-instated...

[@jeffreyacton2684]

I was at a match where a guy was almost booted from an idpa match for appendix carry. I thought idpa was all about practical shooting scenarios. Its no surprise I dont go to matches very often. Id rather shoot at home. I get we need rules but at the end of the day most of us just want to get together, shoot, and have a good time.

[@Bursar60]

Agree, fear of getting hung up on a myriad of rules has always kept me shy from wanting to go even though I'd outgrow like to

[@JustinV911]

Stubble Ben looking good

[@bigandrich44]

Our local club does stuff like this every match. 2-5 DQ’s per match, now they struggle to get more than 20 shooters.

[@gsc0tt_]

Not only "who would want to be involved in this?", but also "why should I continue to be involved in this?". Nonsense like this dissuades many that are extremely vested in the sport to get off the merry go round.

[@mickbrentar784]

I’m so happy this doesn’t happen in the matches I typically attend. All rules aside, basic human interaction should be a requirement to be an RO.

[@annonymouslibertairian9120]

I am 7 months into the sport. I take an RO training course in Febuary (and a Ben course in March). But with my limited knowledge, screw that RO. He should have warned him if he was about to do something he thought was unsafe. If that rule is enforced for safety. That guy was on a power trip and wanted to show off his knowledge. And if someone sites a rule, you take 30 seconds to look at the rule and then decide if it's correct or not. Put the egos away everyone.

[@joshuabaker5712]

And clearly you haven't read the rule book. The RO can not coach the shooter. This is the same as a loaded table start and you setting the gun down with the safety off. That's a DQ too. Neither instance can the RO say hey do this not that.

[@annonymouslibertairian9120]

@joshuabaker5712 pointing out a potential rule violation is not coaching. the first single stack stage I did the RO said "hey, you need to have your safety on. Next time I am going to DQ you." Ok, no problem, now I know. To Ben's point... The rules are not supposed to be there to trip people up and get them DQ'd. There are safety concerns, then there are unfair advantages. But trying to catch people slipping and DQing them from a match they paid to participate in is going to chase people away from the sport. Especially if it's someone wanting to just flex their authority. And RO's should absolutely be telling people "you are about to violate this rule you might not be aware of, let me stop you before I have to DQ you.

[@joshuabaker5712]

@annonymouslibertairian9120 was that at a local match or a level 2 match though? Because it is 100% coaching and should have gotten you a DQ.

[@annonymouslibertairian9120]

@joshuabaker5712 telling someone they are about to break a rule is not coaching. Telling them to change position to start because it's faster another way, or telling to keep their gun up between targets is coaching. Telling them "don't forget the hidden targets behind that barrel is coaching. Telling them "don't draw like that, it's against the the rules" is not coaching.

[@DA-rm5bh]

Can anything be taken from the video about how to FIND THE DOT?

[@isaudy]

Some people get high on power.

[@JG_1998]

I've been planning to start competing in USPSA carry optics from appendix, but I'm gonna hold off until they figure this shit out.

[@Anonusermf]

Full send. Us appendix folks gotta keep pushing

[@acester86]

Slowed it down and still didn't see the problem. Muzzle was down range the entire time. RO just doesnt like apendix shooters

[@Bolo2028]

I agree with your take on the matter.

[@Sam-qn4ly]

Thats the same stop you hear before unsealing and ancient evil from a tomb

[@duganashley1337]

my first USPSA match was after a long time of only military training, CQB, light infantry raids, explosive breaching etc. from GWOT era. I DQd about 15 seconds into the first stage turning around to pick up a target I bypassed. Turns out, they dont like it when you go dynamic/deep in the USPSA stages. I have never heard so many people yelling "No!" in unison

[@AlexanderSotelo]

Yeah dude. Your situation is not at all the same as what happened in this video. Your DQ was 💯.

[@ripdoinksinamish]

How about don’t point your gun in an unsafe direction when you’re doing a civilian competition? There’s no reason to be unsafe.

[@swiftaudi]

Was it with an AK… AK… I bet wetter is better! Lol I still rock that song from time to time and I don’t even have an AK. Dugan is the original KZbin gun daddy!

[@duganashley1337]

@@ripdoinksinamish It was safe, It just wasnt safe to USPSA standards. I wasnt familiar with the rules at the time. Military team CQB is way different, there is no crossover to USPSA.

[@duganashley1337]

@@AlexanderSotelo No shit?

[@Purple_Wayne]

That whole interaction makes me want to stay away from competitions altogether.

[@Jake64823]

I think this is the same RO that can be heard at 1:40 in Jay Beal’s Nats POV video. If I had to guess, he’s the one who caused the same stink at Nats this year.

[@tonyg8471]

If appendix carry is legal in USPSA but they want compliance with a specific "180" rule interpretation, that must be made clear to everyone. I submit this video as exhibit A. As Ben is saying, you cannot have this level of confusion and BS about something that is allowed by the rules. What I saw in the video is an RO salivating over the prospect of issuing a DQ. If he was going to enforce his interpretation of the 180 rule as it pertains to appendix draw, he should have advised the shooter prior to starting him. It was clear the shooter was about to start in his current configuration. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is any way for the shooting sports to completely eliminate the azzhole RO from the equation.

[@oddsparrow8522]

We have the same problem within IPSC. The saddest thing is that they watch eaches backs

[@556online]

I have been a rifle guy for a long time. Recently started getting into handguns and to take it to the next level I started looking into competitive shooting. I came across the video that you cited. As someone who knows very little about it and wanted to get involved, my first thought is if they call themselves a sport then where is the sportsman like conduct, from EVERYONE? At the end of the day it’s supposed to be a team effort with friendly competition and enjoyment. As ambassadors, your goal should be growth and betterment of the sport, not to scare people away. When I see stuff like that, I immediately said piss on it. Who the hell wants to deal with a bunch of nazis. Reminds me of the forums where the moderators are drunk with power and it’s a miserable shit storm. No thanks. If this is what USPSA is all about then they can keep it and shove it.

[@Hawkeyepenny]

If the RO is over 40 and obese in any way. Shouldnt be allowed to RO. Every issue i ever had ever was from some fat, old man who hates anything semi auto

[@jessco8950]

The fact this dude instantly knew what he did wrong and had the rule ready to site tells me he was either spoken to about this before or he knows he shouldn’t have done that.

[@thenricks5063]

If this is what it’s like I don’t want to be involved, especially when it costs quite a bit of money just to think about getting involved.

[@DaBigBR]

I think there are easy ways to modify the rules to allow this. Perhaps the position of the competitor's hips can be accounted for. Perhaps a modified 180 for the draw only. Perhaps just enforcing the rule as it's written (while facing or moving up range). All of the expansion in the sport is from younger guys (obviously), many of whom are appendix carriers. If we want to continue to grow the sport, we need to accommodate it, just like has been done with holster and mag pouch positioning, new divisions, etc. The "P" stands for "practical."

[@anele3426]

My local ROs are cool guys. If stage has some sketchy spot they will point it out during the briefing and never setup traps like this man did

[@tallcip65]

USPCA competitions are crazy. I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near an event where random NARPs are running around shooting guns as fast as they can.

[@nedflanders5649]

I would say no DQ, do a range restart. The RO should not have let him start if it was such a safety issue.

[@Solving_Live_Poker]

As someone who doesn't compete in this type of shooting sport......looking at this from a completely ignorant to the rules, but very aware of firearm safety point of view......this looks horrible. The first things I think is A) He looked fine and safe B) some asshole is specifically looking to DQ you asap and C) USPSA rules are a shit show if this is even a thing. And anyone arguing this was some sort of safety violation is completely out of touch or just purposely being a boomer.

[@CorlosMazda]

This is why I only recognize the first rule of gun safety. Which is to have fun