This Hand Will Leave You Questioning Everything

[@CrushlivePoker]

What do you think about the Hero's bet size into the dry side pot and ultimate decision?

[@EllieBanks333]

Hate it. The tiny sizing makes it hard to read UTG's action.

[@santosallday25]

Betting into a dry side pot is way stronger than just c betting the flop. You can’t trap while also showing immense strength by betting out of position into a dry side pot.

[@WesBundy82]

Absolutely terrible on all streets.. Flop, turn and river..

[@johnf1772]

Well - he may have saved a few hundred bucks. If he checks and UTG bets $600 Hero probably calls. The raise is stronger. Villain may just call the the small bet with AK, but if checked could bet with it to target QQ, and be much less afraid of Hero having KK.

[@montezuma6962]

Reraise A5s because someone on the internet said he should, flop the nuts, never make a single bet until the river where he bets 9% of the pot and then folds to a raise. I LOVE POKER!!

[@mrhumble2937]

You re raise A5 suited because its the optimal strategy.

[@LiveCashCrusher]

@Face_The_Voidmath and logic.

[@Unhingedanduninformed]

@@LiveCashCrushermath and logic is lost on these crushers. Let them play their exploitative strat, where we can easily fold to 100% of their value and take their rolls on the table using close to optimal strategy

[@carlosthesolar3010]

Wtf😢😢

[@navy79930]

Flopped the nuts? 😅😅😅

[@JSHyCS]

Hey everyone! I'm Josh, I was the hero in this situation. Thanks Bart for having me on to talk about this weird one and thank you to everyone sharing their thoughts. First of all, I called this in BECAUSE I felt like I played it pretty poorly, so I agree with most of you that I did absolutely butcher this hand and got very lucky to lose the minimum. To provide some additional context/address some common comments: 1) "How can you not c-bet the flop" Yes, I agree that I should've been c-betting the flop. I wanted to check raise if UTG stabbed and the button folded, but once the button just called, I felt that a check raise was going to look way too strong and get folds from most of the hands I wanted to continue. 2) "Lead/check raise the turn" If I'm going to check call the flop, I think I have to check call/raise the turn. In the moment, I was really focused on getting money from UTG, and when Button shoved, I didn't think UTG would call a re-raise with much that I'm beating that would've stabbed flop. 3) "why bet 10%" My thought process was wrong here, but I actually like the small bet. As Bart said, I think I went a bit too small, but I wanted to get calls from all the 88-TT, AJ+ in his range that would've checked behind. I think I can probably bet 250-300 and get a similar result without making it so easy to bluff me off a hand. 4) "WTF HOW CAN YOU FOLD" I really wanted to call -- I know I'm supposed to call, especially after how passively I played that hand. The one thing that kept going through my head was the idea that bart mentioned, that he could be bluffing me off of a better hand, knowing he has the button beat. But, I really could not possibly find any bluffs that made sense as played. Maybe missed nut flush draws? But, in the end I decided to make what I knew was a very exploitative fold (I don't think I explained that well on the call). This guy is a solid player, but really didn't bluff much and, when he did, he bluffed pretty small. I think he is bluffing into a dry side pot in a $1,200+ (total) pot almost never, and I think only queens or AJ make sense as a bluff as he played it. There are many players I would've never folded to, but this was based on the player profile I had. In general, I think I really messed up the hand because of the "man in the middle", with the short stack. I was worried about trying to trap UTG, but I let the shortest stack dictate the hand. And I agree it's a bad fold against a random player, but with the profile I built, I actually like my fold. Thanks again Bart, and everyone. I'm still relatively new to poker, so I'm super thankful for the discussion of the hand and the feedback from both Bart and the CLP community.

[@evrenturan5632]

I think this hand is interesting. You explain your process quite well for being new to the game. Don't sweat chat pros, they think they have all the angles figured.😂

[@gfsfresh802]

That was a really cool call in. You had an insane read, regardless of some 'mistakes' thats may have been made. You correctly identified 'this specific scenario', and thats what ultimately matters. I bet if utg was somebody else, like a fish, you play it differently anyway. You played the player, and understood what was happening in the moment. Such a sick fold.

[@king_has_no_clothskul8635]

why slow play? you hit it and you must have gone all in to stop them from drawing or make them pay. what would you have lost whole pot but what would have gained? like 3 times that. by slow playing you gave chance for jj to hit a j! slow playing when you have absolute nuts or full house. well cooler is quads but i can live with that. sometimes keeping it simple works as this got ridiculously complicated and out of control.

[@superfreeeeeak]

loved it...crazy fold, congrats!

[@pennywise4843]

Bad fold. You’re being results orientated.

[@fluffysheap]

Everything about this is strange, but my favorite part is at 21:35 where Bart tries to remember what the four suits are 😅

[@tipsy09]

Looked like sart bimpson there for a second

[@johnwright7823]

Sometimes you’re just going to lose. You have to accept it. It may be the right fold in this specific spot, but over time it’s wrong.

[@BroncoWalker25]

Other than 56 which is such a low probability, it's really hard to find any other hands villain can reasonably have here that don't beat us. JJ, 44, KK, 54, all beat us, and what is villain bluffing a dry pot here ever, when we could easily have KK or JJ and can't really be expected to fold AA? I hate the way the flop and turn got played, but the river fold is actually very logical to me. But don't do it face up lol.

[@ColinArkell]

"How To Butcher A Hand And Lose The Minimum"

[@supersmoo7377]

He cultivates an aggressive image - then when he actually flops a great hand, he slow plays it and doesn't put much money in.. what's the point of creating that image if you're not going to take advantage of it when you hit the board?

[@JSHyCS]

@@supersmoo7377 Yeah, I agree with this. I think most of the night I did a great job of taking advantage of my image, but here I was too worried about getting stacks in from UTG that I allowed the short stack button to dictate the flow of the hand instead of playing MY game.

[@tipsy09]

@@supersmoo73774D chess my boy

[@anthonyambroselli6841]

I think the biggest inflection point of this hand is when UTG chooses not to continue and then not check raise the turn. It feels like JJ should want to take one of those options above to get their entire stack in by the river. So I think it becomes a pretty trivial call when considering JJ shouldn’t be in the range if at all.

[@St3.]

to be 100% honest I dont hate this. I think 88, 99, TT and QQ are played the exact same way till the river. and they probably call the 125£ or fold (in which case hero still got value in the last 2 streets). made a great laydown which was extremely difficult. if this was done live it would be all over the internet. -nice hand

[@santosallday25]

The best way to play the flop is to c bet around 150$. 1. Hero has aggressive image. 2. It disguises your hand strength way more than check over calling. I’m at work the 12 minute mark of the video but I have a sense of what comes next. Hero is trying to do two contradictory things. He’s trying to isolate the deep stack player while also letting the short stack change his approach. This will likely lead to a passive line that ends up pricing in the deep stack to get a river card for cheap. It doesn’t make sense to be multi way and say in effect “oh I’m trapping one guy but not the other “. It’s both or neither.

[@JSHyCS]

This is really well put. I think this is exactly what I did wrong in the hand. I don't hate my idea of trying to trap UTG. Heads up, I would've been check raising him. But, in practice I let the short stack dictate the flow of the hand and I handcuffed myself.

[@Caspergomezz]

First mistake, 3 betting a utg opening range from the straddle when you can call and close the action with a suited ace and play with a fish. I would like this 3 bet more if it was against a co open and the the button was a little deeper. Also 3 bet was small, 4x would be 140 + 35 (from button) = 175 minimum, plus your out of position I would make this 210 (again wouldn’t 3 bet against strong range and shorter stack in between)

[@Badbentham]

Fully agree with the 3-bet sizing! - Just out of curiosity: Aren't we in general supposed to 3-bet vs. UTG with a very polarized range, where A5s could well be our only bluffing candidate? If so, one really has to hate Hero's check on the Flop.

[@Caspergomezz]

@@Badbentham in live poker some spots there’s no need to have bluffs and be balanced. Utg is supposed to be opening a very strong range, 77 - AA, and a variety of suited broadways and a few middling suited connectors, none of that range is going to fold to a moderate sized 3 bet and you are gonna have to play a weak hand out of position while also playing deep. The point of having 3 bet bluffs is to sometimes fold out better hands or even fold out hands that have equity against you (like kq for example), if you’re opponent is always going to call a 3 bet with 77-99, wouldn’t you rather just have a linear range of qq-aa and print value? If you’re gonna have bluffs here maybe just AK, but I believe in theory you are meant to flat JJ AK and AQ in the bb (or straddle) against a utg open raise a certain % of the time.

[@JSHyCS]

Two things: I don't think UTG is a fish. I think he is a player who underbluffs, but I don't think he's a fish.I also want to 3bet vs UTG with a very polar range. A5s is the perfect hand to allow bluffs in my range. You're right, I could've gone larger, but I honestly didn't think the button would ever just call there. They either back raise (or just fold) with their 88-JJ and maybe AQ or they fold their broadway hands. That was a mistake though

[@Caspergomezz]

@@JSHyCS button was the fish, if you 3 bet you might squeeze him out of the pot.

[@Caspergomezz]

@@JSHyCS you want to keep fish in the pot especially when you have a hand like a5s, you want them in there with something dominated like 67 of clubs where you can flush over flush them and they will never be able to get away. Also by playing a pot with the button and utg, if utg is a competent player he should bluff less and play his hand more face up which gives you the chance to realize more equity with the hands you play

[@piggy4651]

hero showed so much passivity that villain can be bluffing with anything here tbh.

[@JSHyCS]

Yes, I agree that I played it wrong. But "anything"? I think there are very few bluffs on this river. I also think, and I didn't do a good job of expressing this, that villain is definitely not finding enough bluffs in his game. I found it hard to believe that he would wake up and bluff a dry side pot because he thinks he can beat the button but not me.

[@privacyplease64]

He could literally be raising some random K

[@kingdurkalerpa1044]

Yes but if villan is player that won't bluff it's ez fold

[@frydipp]

if he checked raises the flop like 425-500 he would just took it down instead of slow playing and basically never knowing where he is at

[@bradh9681]

What the hell - this is a must raise on the turn, you have trips, there is a flush draw now, very few hands beat you (JJ only), and the other guy is going to call with any over pair …. Your missing so much value by not raising turn - if your going to 3bet pre with A5 what are you waiting for - someone else to bet your hand for you when you flop Jin? Once you bet so small on river, your essentially inducing a raise, small bet on river isn’t a bad play to induce (horrible value bet thu) ….all most a must call the raise on river for that size….yeah I get the guy actually had JJ and it worked out this time, strange plays throughout.

[@wesleykorisky8600]

If I'm utg villain in this spot with JJ I'm absolutely check raising turn. Raising small, maybe from 130 to 350/375/400 to make sure my sizing when I jam river is more appealing. Or even to get it all in on the turn against basically the exact type of hand that our hero has.

[@Conductor2711]

Super weird spot, but I think hero has to lead flop really large here, enough to start building a side pot immediately if both villians call. Yeah, it sucks to get folds here, but any other line doesn't have fold equity and therefore ensures UTG won't bluff catch.

[@datsumcrzysht]

As played with that river bet sizing by hero, it’s difficult to further range and figure out what the UTG was attempting and thus it was a poor fold.

[@scottyrabbit]

Yea with the tiny sizing you never know if you induce bluffs. That’s why I try to avoid block betting too small.

[@datsumcrzysht]

@@scottyrabbit Exactly! When I intentionally block bet to induce a raise I would often use similarly low amounts. But more importantly if I were Villain, I’m more often than not raising such a bet with a hand like AK for value. And AK is certainly in Vs range given how the hand played out.

[@Lexngton]

Trips on a paired board? That's pretty sick

[@JesseOler-i7e]

Pretty above the rim fold, I don’t think I could ever find it in game, but when Bart breaks down the combos it’s only one combo of 56s you beat vs all the 54, 44, JJ, KK and there are really no pure bluffs with the side pot dynamic. KJ and AK are so unlikely because of the flop c-bet. So rare to find someone trying to run a complex bluff to fold out STR and beat the all in short stack, this fold is really solid

[@scottyrabbit]

He never has KK here. He has more 5-6 and 44 and JJ for sure. Given the price I would have called too.

[@skelthouser2730]

He could have also been up against another A5 who was also playing it slow.

[@JohnSmith-nx7zj]

There’s no combos of 54s available. And if he’s such a fish that he has 54o this is never a fold.

[@JSHyCS]

I'm not sure about the "above the rim" fold. I think I played the hand horribly, but didn't get stuck in the "my hand is under repped' spot on the river. It was a very exploitative fold against this specific opponent who is generally under bluffing. He turned my hand into a bluff catcher, and since he bluffs very rarely, I found it really hard to find the call. So perhaps the fold in isolation was a good fold, but the rest of the hand was a fumble.

[@JSHyCS]

​@@JohnSmith-nx7zj This particular villain never has 56s here

[@EllieBanks333]

I guess the reveal hungry people will be satisfied. I think it obscures the fact that this river was played badly & the fold was incorrect.

[@montezuma6962]

It's a great fold. As long as there are people playing this way, my future is secure. 😆

[@Unhingedanduninformed]

@@montezuma6962I highly doubt you have a future in poker

[@PAlt-p6y]

I'd usually raise that flop because it will look like a steal, unless you're the OMC.

[@elindauer]

Wow what a fold well done

[@PokrRat777]

I would only have bet $125 hoping to induce so I would not have found that fold. I wonder if UTG would ever do this with AJ thinking he can probably beat BTN and get BB off a better hand like AK.

[@Groundhog-Jam-Band]

It's so strange to hear the only word the caller cannot pronounce is button.

[@Sp33dyBeanz]

multiway pots always have me losing to trips against someone who called with Q3 offsuit for pot odds and hits trip 3s lmao

[@cowllama123]

BTN's fishy play saved the Hero here. Tipped the UTGs hand face up

[@BroncoWalker25]

Whats the point of slow playing the turn if the river is a bet 9% and then fold spot? Why give a free card on the turn if we cant extract any value on the river anyways? Im not even considering myself a good holdem player these days but the process here doesmt seem to add up.

[@privacyplease64]

Felt like so much value? Feels like AK, KJ, KQ, or a weaker 5 even, all value, but you beat. How could you consider folding with these odds? WTF???

[@TheGuyCalledX]

65hh makes sense as a value hand you can beat. Not much else does though.

[@LabbaykYaMahdi313]

never folding in this spot. what do you lose to? 44? can't have 45suited. j5suited? k5suited is he calling that wide? what do you lose to. you lose to nothing

[@LabbaykYaMahdi313]

oh he had JJ, seems rather tight pre with a shorty in the middle. but idk maybe trying to keep the shorty in

[@AT-bw4cm]

@@LabbaykYaMahdi313 I would think 44 bets the turn alot after betting flop. I would discount 65 hearts for the same reason. The most likely hand villain has for value is some JJ that didn't 4bet preflop. Possible bluffs I would consider would be 87s and 76s. But if those give up on the turn then would he really start another bluff on the river with those hands? Hero's hand looks specifically like AK diamonds or QQ (if hero is that sharp in the game and realizes villain can't have a K on the river.) Doubt villain would think a raise is going to fold AK diamnonds. Personally as an aggressive preflop hero I would have bet the flop at near 100% frequency.

[@LabbaykYaMahdi313]

@@AT-bw4cm i would bet flop too but as played would you fold river?

[@LabbaykYaMahdi313]

@@AT-bw4cm actually the more i think about it, that side pot makes it almost impossible for villain to be bluffing, but at the same time its like the only hands that have H beat are the 3 combos of JJ. So its like hes never bluffing but only 3 hands beat H. Idk i guess you need to know more about the player, i didnt watch the video in its entirety so not sure what opinions H had of V or if he mentioned any. If V is a super TAG then i guess fold? If hes a weaker or looser player then call.

[@hogi99]

Because of the passivity, it's a square call, but he shouldn't have put himself in this situation. 🤦

[@JamesLee-re3rb]

If i was UTG, Im asking for the table change after that hand

[@tanthony298]

Rarely ever folding after that flop

[@fredsmit3481]

Well played Josh. When was this hand played? I play a lot of 2/5 at MGM NH on weekend mornings.

[@JSHyCS]

Thanks Fred! This hand was played October 6th. I'm sure we've played together

[@t1234-q5z]

Great fold

[@jeffkoehne4852]

How do you not check raise here......the pot is built,grab it

[@JasonDowns-t8r]

Makes you think.Can these dealers really deal these brutal hands for a buddy JUST SAYING😮

[@DRO4G]

I would have snap called and if I was beat I was beat. Can’t always try to make a hero fold.

[@WesBundy82]

Why play this hand aggressively preflop.. Only to smash the flop... Then slow play it..?????.... lmao.. ridiculous post flop play imo.

[@Jermo484]

Wonder if you should donk the turn or raise the flop just so there's never a dry side pot? Also, people don't consider dry side pots at all live. They do all sorts of nonsense bluffing for no reason into them.

[@thomasrichardson-ev1wp]

I haven’t seen river but pocket JJ would have called pre flop raise checked flop called turn and raised river. Let’s see what happens.

[@jeffreyg5718]

Washington state not allowed to participate in that give away. 😔

[@superfreeeeeak]

Great hand, and I'm not at the end yet

[@charlesli1555]

it's call. if villain has it, they can take the money

[@All_In_AK]

Hero xc xc and block b10 otr this can never be a fold imo

[@sanderbrouwer91]

Image does not matter on these stakes. People watch their phone and not pay attention when they fold.

[@lexbraxman9270]

just ignore the button and play it heads up

[@BaadMotorFinger]

Don't think it was a good fold as played. Hero showed so much weakness that hand and then made an induce bet on the river. Villian could be playing this hand the exact same way as this with 87d 67d 67s 67h if he opens those UTG sometimes or if he's really agressive and thinks you fold AK too much in this line, pocket 6s through 10s. I think the hand was played well until the river decision. Either you bet to induce and call here against an aggressive player or check/call. Preflop I'd think just a call would be better though, you dont need to 3bet these hands vs a UTG range unless you're a a pro in a pro game

[@juhiss912]

How to not play NLH. Range C-Bet the flop!!! Everything calls you, lead the $150 ffs. You can't just miss this so much value. Continue continue continue. If both just flat the flop you can probably just bet again because you just can't risk losing value? He can still call with a lot of hands (UTG i mean). Now with this line hero took, to absolute slowplay passive af flatting all the way river 1/10th of the pot, I mean what are we doing? Obviously you shouldn't slowplay the flop, but when you do that and arrive on the turn in this spot, yes you check turn but why are you not raising!!! It represents exactly what you want to represent, a bluff line! This is so crazy that you do this still. We've fucked it so bad coming to the river, but even then why are we betting 1/10th pot? Go for a big bet if he folds he folds so what. Now when you get here $675 to call you don't EVER fold. EVERRR. There's just not enough combos, and also he can value own himself AND it would be very unlikely with this line that both of you are slowplaying with a short stack behind. Absolute bull!

[@juhiss912]

Also do I even believe hero with this line that UTG had JJ... sure buddy. Sometimes you get lucky even if you have no idea how to play.

[@stevesanderson8360]

Hero keeps saying "Buddon" instead of "Button" It has me tilted.

[@darylmixan8170]

That river is brutal! Hero is basically saying I got AK here... Villian is saying I can beat AK... what are the hands here that beat AK that are in this pot? I dont think any 5's... and KJ is very suspect, it is a value bet that can only beat 1 hand

[@scottyrabbit]

I really don’t like the river sizing. If I had AK I would go half pot there

[@TheGuyCalledX]

65hh makes sense. Just about deep enough with a caller in between. But only one combo.

[@privacyplease64]

It's $125, he could have anything.

[@JeffreyHaefner]

Yea don’t need to be hung up on the J after the flop calls

[@SavagePoker81]

Pretty sure I end up broke If I’m in hero’s position 😂😂

[@All_In_AK]

3b sizing Wayyyyy too small oop

[@DavidKrakt]

4.5x is small 3bet now adays? 😂

[@All_In_AK]

@@DavidKrakt it is when theres a flatter, being oop and 3k effective

[@darylmixan8170]

Yes! A-5s 3 bet is not a 3 bet designed to keep callers in... its a weak hand designed to look like AA, played like AA.

[@TheGuyCalledX]

Nah not with the button that short.

[@All_In_AK]

@@TheGuyCalledX hero goes 150 with btn having $430 stack… hero shouldnt fold to a backjam from btn when he takes this size anyway lol

[@JamesLee-re3rb]

Nit fold wow

[@derrsonn]

Nobody wants to talk about if he c-bets the flop, he goes broke? JJ isn’t folding 554 flop and hits gin on turn

[@christophermanning6146]

That's being results oriented. Just because the right play can lead to a bad outcome, doesn't make it the wrong play. It's hard to predict jin cards when you've got a disguised made hand.

[@BroncoWalker25]

The amount of confusion over the buttons stack is distracting and infuriating. If you're any kind of experienced poker player how is this hard?

[@Fred-rg5vw]

Caller played this horribly and got lucky .

[@dominicclark5342]

I would have gotten took here.

[@duncanglen3452]

Sakes 😂

[@WesBundy82]

I absolutely hate how the hero played this hand.. Terrible..

[@robertwasden2691]

Horrible, horrible fold, just seems to have paid off this one time out of probably 15

[@Donkadocus]

Terrible fold

[@KeefeL]

This guy is trolling, right?

[@eetnen9902]

Caller has fancy play syndrome. This is a great spot to value bet the crap out of your hand. Just bet, bet, bet.