This is a disaster (for Intel)

[@benyomovod6904]

The next Intel chip will be named Lava Lake with a Three Miles Island chipset

[@wellwell8025]

😂

[@RWBHere]

🤣👍

[@saricubra2867]

@@benyomovod6904 Well, considering that they will launch P-core only chips, Rocket Lake's i9-11900K will look like a masterpiece in comparison.

[@cosmic_gate476]

@@saricubra2867 my mate still on his 9900k and me on my 5800x3d: "dodged that bullet"

[@siveric32]

@@cosmic_gate476 9900K is the last of the very mature 14nm node from intel, that thing will be good for years to come so will the 5800x3d, the AM4 is the undead platform haha and something tells me there will be one more cpu refresh on that platform

[@emperorfaiz]

Meanwhile Usebenchmark keep recommending Intel chips and belittle Ryzen chips.

[@RippahRooJizah]

​@Shadow_banned_by_KZbin I rarely use that place, but used it a couple weeks ago. And I kept seeing a review for Ryzen chips where the person says to get Intel.

[@austinnafziger4159]

@@Shadow_banned_by_KZbin The founder/head of Userbenchmark is famously an AMD hater. The whole site is useless.

[@lharsay]

@@Shadow_banned_by_KZbin Dude. The i5 13600K used to have over 100% user rating on that website a few months ago, something is really messed up with that place.

[@originalscreenname44]

@@Shadow_banned_by_KZbin That "one guy" has his fingerprints all over the site though. It doesn't matter what AMD product you look up, it's the same kind of tone in every single review and userbenchmark doesn't do anything about. I'd say that's just a much their fault as the "one guy" who keeps writing them up.

[@flynntaggart8549]

​@@Shadow_banned_by_KZbin"one guy" they literally changed the metrics to boost Intel's standing in the rankings once amd cpus started outperforming them. that's site wide.

[@brianm.595]

Its interesting to me that intel has essentially been tweeking 13th and 14th gen high end chips lower and lower. Is it even possible for 14900k's to still hit the very high clocks they were initially advertised with? The "fixes" have pretty much been lowering voltages everytime.

[@levigoldson]

I couldn't get mine rock solid stable above 5.6gigahertz. Whether that is "very high clocks" or not, I'm not sure, but certainly not the 6 a lot of people were tuning it to. It has definitely been disappointing for me. It took a lot of effort to get it stable and I thought I just had a very unlucky chip. Turns out, it was basically just like all of them just most people don't really know how to test it for stability.

[@berkertaskiran]

​@@levigoldsonIs anything stable after a long time? You need ECC for that.

[@scimbrelo]

​@@berkertaskiranplease bro. This isn't an issue of not having ECC. Intel has already admitted multiple issues plaguing these chips

[@saricubra2867]

​@@SlayerUnchainedWhat you wrote is false, lower clocks means significantly less voltage therefore less watts.

[@dexterPL]

@@saricubra2867 if the cpu has less computing power, it generally needs more time to perform the task, so even if the power drop is small, it generally consumes more power because the process runs longer

[@gladbr7629]

fun fact in Brazil if you buy a defective product and it expires before the warranty and you get a replacement, the warranty clock effectively "resets" so intel needs to keep sending chips forever as long as the consumer keep submitting claims and they don't fix the chips

[@seanthiar]

Oh, that is nice. In Germany changing the defect product does not change the length of the warranty.

[@berryplay8074]

​@@seanthiarof course it does. But don't mix Garantie (freiwillig) with Gewährleistung (gesetzlich).

[@LiberatedMind1]

That should be anywhere, as the you are getting a new product with a different warranty.

[@LeVolture]

Yea, but being without a chip for a week every 2-3 months isn't fun....

[@SalamaAhmed-pj3jv]

Intel can always claim that you spoiled the CPU somehow, not a defect. We can't do anything other than boycott.

[@ElectroOverlord]

Being older than this Whippersnapper, the expression is you don't get fired for buying IBM!

[@phillipzx3754]

I should have read a few more posts. You beat me to it. 🙂

[@traitoR142]

I read a recent rumour Intel was looking to keep the 1700 LGA socket for their next release now, people were attributing it to Intel being benevolent or kind, i piped up that it's probably so they had something they could issue to those that bought defective CPU's, because they need a product with comparable if not better performance to replace them with. Guess Linus doesn't see this ?

[@SubTroppo]

In a similar vein, "If it's Boeing I'm not going" perhaps gives more pause for thought.

[@axi0matic]

He said it in air quotes - I think he was riffing on the classic slogan.

[@RomanianReaver]

@@SubTroppo "Didn't you say you were clinically suicidal?" "Precisely"

[@tomcat2395]

Intel will never, ever do a recall. The press is not talking about this like the Galaxy Note 7 so for now its just a select few talking about it

[@cyko5950]

as more and more chips fails the issue could snowball all the way too the press

[@JathraDH]

@@cyko5950 Most of the chips that are failing are the extreme high end chips that not many people buy. If their Xeons were failing, or their i3s-i5's were failing en-masse it would be a much bigger issue and have much more public attention.

[@deeplaysgaming4754]

@@JathraDH Youve just seen linus say many smaller tech companies use these processors and many are now switching to AMD.

[@AndyHippoR]

FDIV bug would like a word

[@JathraDH]

@@deeplaysgaming4754 They are a drop in the bucket compared to intel's real business. I am not very worried for Intel. They will take a hit, but I very much doubt they will go under from this. We should see some actually better procs in a few years from all of this.

[@chadaycock6437]

Anecdotally, I bought a i7-13700K last Christmas. This processor runs hot, and blue screens about once a month. It was worse before I under clocked it and tweaked the bios. It will be the last Intel chip I buy for a while. I appreciate y'all shedding light on this issue.

[@ElectricityTaster]

You did not undervolt it, you did what engineers at intel should've done when setting factory settings.

[@nadtz]

Right after I build my 13700k I benched it and the cooler I got couldn't handle it. After doing some hunting around figured out the bios defaults were basically OC'ing out of the box and spent a few hours figuring out what I had to change in the bios to be in spec. After that and undervolting the chip ran fine with an air cooler, benched higher because it wasn't throttling and I've never had any blue screens or instability (fingers crossed on that one). I was so annoyed about that but at the time everyone responded with "the chips can handle it". Wonder what they would say now.

[@LiberatedMind1]

@@ElectricityTaster Semantically you may be correct, but this still likely hurts performance.

[@LiberatedMind1]

Did you lose performance after lowering the clock?

[@TheRimBrakeGuy]

​@@LiberatedMind1better to undervolt it and lose a few % than to have a burnt chip. But this is also now making me think it's false advertising from Intel.. Where are the authorities?

[@claudiobizama5603]

Years down the road these CPUs will hit the used market. And the best would be to avoid them.

[@Carstuff111]

Already way ahead of you considering I have been using AMD again since 2019 lol.

[@saricubra2867]

Just like i avoided the i9-11900K and went straight for the i7-12700K. i9s simply don't catch a break, every single one always sucked.

[@jz7109]

14th gen doesn't have the oxidation issue. Those should be fine with bios tweaks.

[@nicholaslienemann1912]

​@@jz7109The tweaked bios won't fix all the degradation that happened before the tweaks are deployed.

[@douglasmurphy3266]

It could be worthwhile if they make it into AliExpress $50 combos, lol But if a bunch of individuals get stiffed by Intel they for sure will be trying to ask $500 for their burnt out emulated-core i9s The e-waste ramifications of this is nuts, everyone with an i9 14900k has it paired with a sick S-tier motherboard with a crazy VRM that is now useless unless it gets downgraded to a 12400k or something I think they will have to patch down performance and issue rebates, something like $50 for i5*600k $100 for i7*700k and $200 for i9*900k and the used market will need to value them at that discount. Oh, and of course lawyer up.

[@Pocahonkers]

1:38 Probably not intentional but funny nonetheless: They didn't get the utmost *in stability* by going with ECC memory but they got the utmost *instability* by going with Intel.

[@Profcrab]

Since Intel changes chipsets so often, they can't just issue a next gen chip. The customer is invested in a shortlived socket and is out way more than just the chip.

[@awdrifter3394]

They can. They are artificially blocking older chipsets from working with newer CPUs.

[@pyronic120120]

@@awdrifter3394 This is true. A lot of the technology jumps from one chipset to another is not that great. Sure, some features might not be supported of the future chips, but they wouldn't be fully unusable. Like AMD most chipsets work at almost full capacity except a few minor newer updates. But it's possible. Intel is not that special to make huge generational leaps each generation.

[@awdrifter3394]

@@pyronic120120 Yep. AM4 socket worked with Ryzen 1xxx to 5xxx CPUs. So it's definitely possible of Intel to do that too.

[@LiberatedMind1]

@@awdrifter3394 Yes they can, but choose not to. The fuckers will change a pin or make them electrically incompatible on purpose.

[@beo456]

3:50 "I have no... idea what this (recall) would look like" It would look like Red "Ring of Death" recall with the Xbox 360 in 2007. In 2007 it costed Microsoft 1.15 Billion dollars to recall and repair the damage. If Intel doesn't do the same, Intel as a brand is dead to me.

[@Stephen__White]

The fact Intel knew of these issues for over a year potentially and did/said NOTHING means they are already basically dead to me. As soon as I get the money to move to AM5 I'm doing it and never looking back. If Intel had done the right thing and called attention to the corrosion issue when they discovered it, and issued a full recall of all effected chips, called attention to the power related instability that they themselves created by factory OCing these CPUs and issued ether micro code changes or at least guidance on power levels these CPUs should actually be running at. I would have been okay with it. They didn't. They even now are trying to sweep the corrosion issue under the rug(giving me the impression it's a lot bigger of an issue than they are letting on), and they are perfectly happy factory OCing their CPUs to get better performance numbers in reviews because they seem to know without that AMD would be dominating them in nearly every regard. The corrosion issue was "addressed" in 2023. When? Who the fuck knows Intel doesn't seem to. When did the issue start? Again who the fuck knows, Intel doesn't seem to. 13th gen came out late 2022, so it could have possibly been an issue from the very start, it could have been an issue that cropped up IN 2023 and only effects a small amount of date codes, no one knows. Intel fucked up BIG time with this, and how they are handling it, and I've lost all confidence in them. AMD's been killing it lately, so guess now it's time for people to start swapping to AMD en masse.

[@timomaanen]

@@Stephen__White I mean all you need to know is that AMD delayed the launch of Ryzen 9000 cause it doesnt meet expectations if that was Intel they would just say fuck it they gonna buy it anyway and release it.

[@TheRimBrakeGuy]

Decision to recall for defective products must not be voluntary basis. If this was a baby car seat it would have been recalled first days that it was known.

[@Tome4kkkk]

Oh no, fixing a company error costs the company! We cannot have that. It means lost jobs and GDP!

[@RusticRonnie]

Say it with me everyone “Never fire you R&D department” They got ride of it a while ago and are working with a skeleton crew because “R&D doesn’t make money”

[@simonoleary9264]

Tell me your Tech company is run by bean counters, without telling me.

[@samal90]

If this is true...its the dumbest decision I have ever heard.

[@kkrolik2106]

@@samal90 AMD re hired them ;)

[@onepoh4680]

Is true 😂 intel has been firing their R&D employees

[@Reaver9021]

I have never known this happened. Can you provide information source about this? I am curious.

[@paulf2184]

The way Intel power these chips is the equivalent of thrashing your car at 8k RPM constantly. Of course they will fail much faster than normal. They were unable to keep up with AMD in IPC improvements so they had no choice but to overclock up the wazoo in order to compete. The chips are likely just as stable as AMD if you run them at the same power spec as AMD but then they would be slow AF.

[@JathraDH]

AMD is ahead on IPC? I am pretty sure its the 3D cache that is giving them the edge.

[@ghoulbby]

@@JathraDH It's both.

[@michael.petraeus]

They've been doing this for 25 years. It's nothing new. This time they've just run out of technological runway, though. They pushed the chips over the edge. But it has always been their tactic - release a flagship chip with no concern for power efficiency or temperatures, just to claim the benchmarks crown, which would drive sales of everything else.

[@danieltanuwijaya7675]

They just crank up the boost pressure each gen and expect the engine to not blow up lmao.

[@Son37Lumiere]

@@michael.petraeus This is largely true however it wasn't until the 13th gen that they just said fk it lets push these to the breaking point so we can still win at benchmarks. I can't remember any CPU in history drawing anywhere close to 400 watts other than some limited high core count server chips.

[@Bryanhaproff]

Glad I got a couple 7800X3d's instead. I feel way Luckier NOW!

[@Deffinnition]

I bough it a year ago and still feels like the best purchase ever

[@Khalidd7]

@@Deffinnition The same feeling

[@VVayVVard]

I messed up and bought an Intel K CPU for the single-core performance... my intuition said the higher-than-usual temps and voltages were a red flag, but I trusted the words of Intel technicians when they said the CPUs had been "rigorously tested to work fine for years even at maximum usage"... Welp, I guess now I know not to doubt my engineering intuition ever again...

[@004vamsi]

Yep! Was having a hard time deciding between 13700K and 7900X. So glad I went with 7900X! Sure, it’s a little slower in games but I don’t need to worry about my CPU dying..

[@004vamsi]

⁠@@VVayVVardI mean , the chances of a CPU failing are really low, like abysmally low, so you wouldn’t really expect this to happen. Intel screwed up big this time around..

[@a1f13a]

Intel also had massive issues with intel atoms in 2016ish, which lead to loads of devices failing after a year or 2. I work in the repair industry and saw loads of routers + transmission kit from the likes of cisco and infinera etc with the same fault.

[@nadtz]

Most people don't know about that because it didn't affect consumer stuff but I worked in a datacenter at the time and we had a lot of unhappy customers replacing switches and routers. Even now if you haunt the right forums people will tell you not to buy certain equipment second hand because of this, so yeah for those in this know this is strike 2 for Intel.

[@Lollllllz]

Just curious if the resistor workaround for the c2000 atoms were a permanent fix or did it just ekked out abit more the usable lifetime of the affected devices. I think some nas devices had the faulty cpus.

[@user-cz9ss4yq4x]

Oh. I just racked a colocation with an Q1 2016 Intel Braswel in a critical piece of infrastructure. Should I replace it @a1f13a?

[@EricInTheNet]

In the early Intel Pentium era, we had an Athena desktop, and Compaq sent us an engineer to our house in the middle of Switzerland to switch the Pentium CPU for the fdiv bug.

[@SlavTiger]

now that's service

[@BSD2000]

I worked as a PC technician during that time and and replaced a LOT of Pentiums at customer locations.

[@alanowa123]

​@@SlavTigeryeah but computers back then were NOT cheap. In '95 respectable pentium build was around $3-5k in todays money. They were very exclusive products at that time and you could expect that level of service for that price, especially back then. Fun fact, Dell still does on-site technician service for buisness client and that's cool if you ask me.

[@seanthiar]

@@alanowa123 they are still not cheap - a Pentium at that time is like a Xeon today and those still cost a few thousands.

[@dazeen9591]

CPUs should last 30 years Intel: 2. Take it or leave it.

[@LiberatedMind1]

30 weeks.

[@JJARCHIE]

​@@LiberatedMind120 , last offer !

[@felixbragger]

2 months u mean 😂

[@JJARCHIE]

@@felixbragger 1 , no lowball

[@ElectroOverlord]

Intel has a history of fucking up....RAMBUS anyone?

[@legoflashgamer]

Ah yes, I remember that…

[@doomslayerdave]

To be fair RDRAM was faster it's just making shit like chipsets for P3 that used it.

[@the12gaugeshotty]

Intel's Netburst needed lots of bandwidth. DDR at the time couldn't provide that. It wasn't until DDR went dual channel that it made sense and Intel switched from RDRAM to DDR.

[@farminglol]

AMD is using Rambus PHY for their memory controller :) (in ryzen)

[@FrankHarwald]

RAMBUS yes, but that wasn't a manufacturing problem but rather them endorsing the wrong spec / technology standard.

[@LeafYesOk]

I got an i9--13900k around a year ago now and for months I struggled with random crashes under very normal load. I was tearing my hair out thinking it was every other component in my system, and after finally narrowing it down to the CPU, I found plenty of other users on intel forums with the same CPU experiencing the exact same issues only to be met with Intel representatives gaslighting and downplaying issues especially when users how this seemed to be a widespread issue that Intel was not acknowledging. Going through the support process and trying to get my chip RMAed was like pulling teeth. I had to jump through a million hoops and argue with the representatives to get them to send me a replacement, only for the replacement to suffer the exact same issues as the original chip. My trust in Intel is completely broken. For years I've had friends and colleagues tell me how much they've loved their AMD chips and next upgrade cycling I'll be seeing what all the fuss is about.

[@SIPEROTH]

The 13 gen is basically the worse because not only they have the 14th gen issues but a patch of them also has oxidization issues. But the biggest problem is voltages. Intel really shat the bed there. Even when the load you put is normal or low it makes no difference because the voltage settings Intel put in the chips are so bad that the chip just cut power to most cores but still kept high voltages on the ones used and therefore it made no difference even if a user never pushed the whole chip since at the least one main core will be constantly under high voltages that damaged it and made the chip unstable since when one or two main cores get damaged then the chip can't keep working flawlessly.

[@BladeCrew]

Meanwhile I am casually still on my b450 motherboard and upgraded this week from a Ryzen 5 1600 AF to a Ryzen 5 5500.

[@adamtajhassam9188]

meanwhile im mostly relaxed now w the 7950x3d just wondering whats the best board 4 it that wont give issues. ie wifi not working and wackythings.

[@X_irtz]

If it serves you well, why not. Not everyone needs the latest and greatest.

[@BladeCrew]

@@X_irtz I cap all my triple a(single player) games to 60Fps and esport games to 120 fps. I could also run my 4 rams sticks of 8GB at 3200MHz CL16 because the ryzen 5 5500 had a far better memory controller. Since my games fps is capped I can have lower temps, power draw and more consistent frame time graph.

[@stevedavis3828]

1600AF was a belter of a chip too .

[@LiberatedMind1]

Like a boss.

[@ScottGrammer]

A few months ago, I built a new HTPC. I was planning on Intel for once, and I'm SO glad I found an i7-12700KF on sale at the Jungle Site, and bought it instead of a 13th or 14th gen chip. Dodged a bullet there.

[@zybch]

Why did you not go AMD, nothing to do with the recent intel issues, but power consumption and heat is far less, especially in an HTPC environment and chassis than anything intel has pumped out for a long while.

[@ScottGrammer]

@zybch well it's because my last four builds have been AMD based, and although I've been very happy with them, I just wanted to try an Intel build for the first time in about 20 years.

[@Son37Lumiere]

@@ScottGrammer A 12700KF for an HTPC is rather extreme, unless you also use it as a gaming rig. I just bought a Minisforum NUC running a 7735HS which is more than enough but I mainly only use it for media consumption. Actually though, it works fine for playing games as well using the Steam built in streaming functionality from my main gaming system.

[@lukegrant9526]

I am using i7 12700 instead of i7 13700k too. I feel happy that my cpu is better than later gen despite the capability of later gen. But I don't want to have hardware drama like this, I'm lucky I'll guess.

[@Kevin-mx4vm]

​@@zybchI can't understand AMD product naming scheme 🥴

[@neutrino3869]

The worst decision I made was purchasing the i9 14900k and pairing it with a 4090. I also have another work PC with an AMD Threadripper 7985WX Pro. The power consumption of the i9 is absurd, and it generates an excessive amount of heat. I am a material science researcher and basically I have to do simulation of molecules which is very power hungry. I’ve experienced numerous blue screens, and the recommended Intel profile significantly underperforms compared to what the current generation promises. If buying a flagship product like the i9 only results in headaches rather than delivering on its promised performance and stability, it raises serious questions about customer loyalty. Who would remain a loyal customer under these circumstances?

[@SIPEROTH]

It seems you simply bought the expensive "top" stuff because you had high demands without researching much before buying. Personally as the tech guy in my circles i have advised every friends and family to stay away from i9 products for the last few years. Just looking at their voltages and power consumption was enough for me to know Intel was trying to push the envelope as to not appear they lost the performance crowd to AMD. They were pushing the clock speeds etc to levels their current tech can't keep up with. In your case i see why the 4090 makes sense since the money saved by research being done faster might be worth the expense, power consumption and size and risk(bad power cables) but for my friends and family is something i also advice not to waste so much money on. Top products come with extra premium on the price you pay for just that little extra that makes no sense in terms of value for money for most people which is why i advice against it.

[@neutrino3869]

@@SIPEROTH Thanks for your reply. Basically my plan was to use i9-14900k + 4090 for GPU based workflow and Threadripper for CPU intensive tasks. It’s true that I didn’t research much about this specific model. My previous experience with i712700k was fine. Still working consistently.

[@monkeywithocd]

Unreal Engine games using RAD Game Tools are apparently crashing on newer Intel CPUs due to hardware issues, with the only workarounds apparently being to mess with the BIOS settings to disable overclocking, including seemingly the default turboing behavior. Sadly it seems like game devs are probably getting the brunt of the hate for this despite it rather clearly not being their fault.

[@pkpnyt4711]

Actually, they also mention that they had to lower ram speeds 5200 MHz and below to actually run, it's not just the voltage that is the issue. This announcement is a temporary fix IMHO opinion and a way for them not to do a full recall (imagine they only added the defective chip process after they had already released the initial announced the micro code fix to try and circumvent things).

[@rimurutempest2130]

Did you just blame entire Game bugs on Hardware especially Intel

[@aziaufa418]

​@@rimurutempest2130 yes, in fact i also blame amd...and windows 11...and vangdog. Idk which one of these three is the cause, but one thing for sure is they're not working good together

[@seanthiar]

@@rimurutempest2130 just check jay2cents videos about BIOS for intel based CPU's. It's not only that the CPU's have a problem, it is that MB manufacturers have defaults in their Intel boards that will crash by default or destroy your CPU. Most buy the PC place it on their desk and will never touch the Bios and it will crash just because MB manufacturers think they know better.... And honestly much of it is also TPM2/secure boot. I never had so much problems with a PC with blue screens etc. until I removed the dependence on TPM 2 and secure boot from the systems - regardless of the CPU or other hardware.

[@triadwarfare]

On the last part, part of the problem of Intel is due to their lack of accountability with their consumers on why they were so complacent for this long, and now, their big business partners like Dell and HP are starting to get affected. They deserve their downfall. They shouldn't cherrypick their customers.

[@mdante6236]

This really puts me off buying any future Intel chips whenever i want to upgrade, think ill be sticking to AMD for the time being... I doubt theyll be able to fix relations with consumers and businesses/enterprise customers quickly enough to push this ecent under the rug

[@hdthor]

Intel is the new Boeing

[@Tugela60]

You know that AMD just delayed their latest CPU launch because the chips were having issues as well right?

[@inchiga4466]

And they delayed the launch, to fix said issues, so they dont launch with issues, unlike intel. ​@@Tugela60

[@jclosed2516]

@@Tugela60 At least they delayed it, and do not sell it to unsuspecting costumers like Intel did. They are still at the ++ side for me, even if I trust neither company's blindly.

[@razgrizadler]

I can't believe I narrowly avoided what might be one of the biggest failure in CPU history. I had been an Intel CPU user my whole life. My old rig the X99 system with Intel Core i7 5930k died after more than 7 good year of constant OC at 4.5GHz I had to build my new gaming rig up in a rather short time. After I saw how much power consumption 14900k was compared to AMD current AM5 chips I decided to dip into the rabbit hole and went with 7800X3D instead and I now realized that "How time has changed..." AMD is good now (it's unthinkable and impossible for me even back before I tried this.) and Intel can actually fuck up this bad after Pentium III ...If only my father (RIP) who was Intel fans, could lived long enough to see this. He would've been shocked!

[@ZantetsukenGilgamesh]

Intel was always trash, it just took the 13th gen and 14th gen for people to actually realize. And AMD made SERIOUS progress starting with Zen 1 and by the time Zen 2 and 3 came around, Intel chips were worthless toasters compared to AMD's offering. First Intel was frying your electricity bill and now they are frying themselves through oxidation. The thing is, the AMD chips STILL get better and better with on average 15% IPC improvements gen over gen. Up untill 2020 Intel was still selling gimped quadcores for $400.

[@michael.petraeus]

AMD has always been good.

[@azideiaman]

@@michael.petraeus no 💀 but damn did they make improvements with Ryzen

[@michael.petraeus]

@@azideiaman plz, I've been on AMD only since 1997. The only time I got Intel was when I had to use it on a laptop, since there was no choice. Both on MacBooks and PCs it was a disastrous piece of ever throttling garbage that couldn't handle its thermals for shit.

[@michael.petraeus]

@@azideiaman also, I've never had Intel on desktop because I really don't like getting ripped off. There was NEVER any reason to pay the Intel premium for any chip in existence.

[@Kapono5150]

Everyone is going AMD!!!! It’s beautiful

[@vert3823]

There are people out there who will absolutely not touch AMD CPUs with a 10 foot pole. These people will get what they deserve.

[@RovelStars]

You realise single core performance in a lot much preferred rather than multi core performance? Intel was known for better single core performance, and hence why a lot of people use Intel CPUs for the same. Most programs uses single core out of the box, unless they're configured to use multi cores.

[@ghoulbby]

@@RovelStars known for, and currently, are two different things. The differences are not enough to matter in day-to-day use and operations that would take time, where you may see a significant different and it does matter, are going to be using more than one core. Besides, if the ONLY thing that matters is single core performance, then maybe look into Apple's chips. Because as it stands, Intel isn't the one to use.

[@michael.petraeus]

​@@RovelStars - the only reason Intel was "known for" better single threaded performance was releasing power hungry chips at the top of the stack which would look good in benchmarks, no matter how inefficient or hot they were running. This has literally been their main marketing tactic for something like 25 years at least, or for as long as I remember. But for about the same time AMD has always been the king of value for money in terms of performance you're getting for the dollar (with the exception of Bulldozer, which was a poor bet on multithreading).

[@Ordoscc]

I don't need 6 GHz at 500W. 5.3 GHz at 150W is good enough.

[@notluminaire]

I know people on discord who wouldn't bother using an AMD cpu because of their "confusing" naming scheme. What's worse is that they work in IT 😂

[@dlmac]

I sit here watching this and others talk about the Intel 13th/14th gen issues, just waiting for my PC to crash. First 14900k (dec 2023) with VRAM errors all the time (Mostly Stellaris), now with a brand new 14900KS and getting BSOD screens, Chrome "STATUS_ACCESS_VIOLATION". Just no way this isn't a massive issue.

[@nivea878]

wtf, grap a 7800x3d and call it a day

[@MrDecessus]

To bad. No problems with i7 13700k. I guess the i9 seem to be the big stickers. But check to make sure motherboards is not the real problem.

[@pearce_nz]

You should have gone for a 7950x3d. Optimisations in process lasso essentially make it a 7800x3d in games and you have the extra cores and threads of the other ccd for productivity.

[@dlmac]

@@pearce_nz This was all before I knew it was likely the CPU and not video/motherboard.

[@pearce_nz]

@@dlmac I was talking performance wise not longevity wise. But the failed longevity of the intel makes it even more of a smarter decision to lean with the 7950x3d for those wanting the best of both worlds of gaming and productivity.

[@DisturbedNeo]

It makes perfect sense to use consumer chips for game servers, because you’re basically running games on those servers, which enterprise chips often aren’t designed or tuned for. Using an enterprise-grade CPU for a game server would be at best overkill and at worst give you degraded performance and compatibility issues in some cases.

[@DuvJones]

Plus it's a matter of cost, desktop chips are (usually) much cheaper to acquire and deploy. The cheapest Non-AM5 Epyc chips is at least $2000+ for the chip. The recently released AM5 Epyc's? A low as $149.... sure it's a low core count, but between that and the Ryzen chips, line between them is blurry . So Intel has a problem.

[@pocketpc_]

Yup. Most game servers benefit more from single-core speeds than core count, just like the games they're serving.

[@nadtz]

It's honestly more about cost than anything. I used to work in a datacenter that hosts game servers and they used to use the older fast Xeons back when but as Intel segmented the Xeon lineup more it just became better cost/performance to use the higher clocked consumer SKU's.

[@nadtz]

@@DuvJones Siena chips can be had for under $1000 but good luck finding motherboards. The main draw with AM5 Epyc is it's certified to work for things that Ryzen isn't, not a big deal to consumers but it can be a deal breaker in an enterprise setting.

[@R6ex]

X3D for me next!

[@Shadow_banned_by_YouTube]

Ukraine is finished

[@Blue-bf8lv]

@@Shadow_banned_by_KZbinall your comments are rage bait

[@Shadow_banned_by_YouTube]

@@Blue-bf8lv so what? Isn’t that true then? Hypocrites

[@levigoldson]

As a 13900k owner who has been angry about the instability since it released, and was basically called crazy by support and anyone I would talk to about it (must be something I am doing wrong), I am absolutely disgusted but also feel vindicated by all of this. The truth is these chips for average users will not manifest as enough instability that you will be able to easily detect it without running tests. But it's unacceptable and I'm disgusted with how intel has handled this. I am sure they knew for a long time and have done nothing.

[@benpedi6645]

Just ask for RMA. I was offered reimbursement or a new CPU. It arrived in under a week...

[@musouisshin]

went AMD never went back, i have 3 AM4 systems now(all my home systems for brother n stuff made by me), maybe an AM5 in the future (the one im using is R7 2700X and 6600XT) Perfect (this is a 2018 chips)

[@fyntop]

"This is a disaster" oh no! "for intel" anyways

[@LiberatedMind1]

For all of us, what's stopping AMD from price gouging now?

[@GeorgePerakis]

@@LiberatedMind1 Nothing. And that's why you should buy AMD's stock.

[@ForstHeld]

After they got away with Meltdown and Spectre without any repercussion, they try to do it again.

[@beo456]

Psst. Spectre affected AMDs too.

[@ihyln1]

@@beo456psst. It didn’t actually.

[@xXYannuschXx]

@@beo456 Not really. While Spectre and Meltdown worked on AMD aswell, it DID NOT work without administrator right. Unlike on Intel CPUs, where you could execute the exploit with normal user rights. And if malicous code already has admin rights, its game over already.

[@xXYannuschXx]

Or the toothpaste fiasco. Its honestly surprising what short memory most people have.

[@ihyln1]

@@xXYannuschXx or the Pentium FDIV bug...

[@Elbrasch]

Finally, I might get a Ryzen dell laptop for work

[@Dandan-tg6tj]

Is it a HP laptop? My nephew did purchase one. Ryzen CPU with a million cores, two million gigabytes of RAM and a laptop HDD 5400 rotations per minute. That was working literally like crap.

[@onapersonalnote7045]

Op said dell, and how old was the one your nephew bought??? 5400rpm hard drive? Must have been ancient

[@Derpsii]

does this issue affect intel mobile chips as well?

[@KenTWOu]

@@Derpsii People from some repair services say that they're affected as well, intel denies.

[@legendboyAni]

​@@Dandan-tg6tjmore like a HDD problem then CPU

[@mrmrmrcaf7801]

7:10 In some countries in Europe it doesn't work like that... if one product is bad and you get another under warranty, the warranty is extended by another whole period...in the case of Intel processors it is 3 years, if the product is replaced 2 times the 3rd time customer can ask for money back. If the CPU is part of a package of several products, the respective store is obliged to change the entire platform of the buyer or full money back on the entire order...it's the same when a bad PSU burns all the components in your PC..the stores or distributors are required to repair or replace EVERYTHING, here whoever sold you the product is responsible for the warranty and they, in turn, will be compensated by the producer, in this case intel.

[@beno996]

0:52 This is wrong. They report on gpu driver crashes for players NOT servers

[@jasonroberts8416]

lol yea and the chart isnt even related to Alderon games, it's from the developers of Warframe (Digital Extremes).

[@AthosRac]

NOT GPU crashes....GPUs are fine. THis is not the only game developer with the same problem.

[@beno996]

@@AthosRac yes. The GPU driver instability is caused by faulty CPUs

[@Tugela60]

Why are AMD GPUs not crashing? If it is only nVidia and mostly 14900k chips then there must be a compatibility issue at high clock speeds.

[@beno996]

@@Tugela60 I didn't look into the data but reasonable assumption is that AMD GPU drivers might crash paired with Intel CPU with the CPU being main culprit but the miniscule amount of said configurations just wasn't the main focus of developers gathering data. The graph shown in the video comes from Warframe forums and contains data about correlation of overrepresented amount of Nvidia gpu drivers with high-end intel CPU

[@Zanaan]

My PC recently failed, and after having microcenter diagnose it, it turned out my 13900kf failed. A year and a half after I bought it. I ponied up and paid to switch all my hardware over to AMD.

[@SIPEROTH]

Wow! Not even two years. That is some pretty big change for the worse for Intel from my 10 year old PC with Haswell that is still working fine.

[@tmsphere]

The last stable thing in our lives, the cpu in the fucking case, has gone to lunch..

[@Tigermania]

Intel taking Highlander way too serious. "Its Better to Burn Out than Fade Away"

[@Indrid__Cold]

Compensation will almost certainly be a coupon for a future chip or a minimal amount of cash. You will need to document your part's serial number, but you will not have to send it back.

[@mizhimo]

My i7 4790k still rocking just fine.

[@Dandan-tg6tj]

My daughter's PC uses 3770 slightly overclocked at 4,2GHz. For Genshin Impact it runs perfectly and more.

[@El_Cattivo1988]

@@Dandan-tg6tj Except that she plays Gatcha hell. And you as a parent support that..

[@Shadow_banned_by_YouTube]

Say that to HandBrake encoder

[@saricubra2867]

My mobile i7-4700MQ absolutely destroys desktop i7-3770 and 2600 for power efficency. I now own an i7-12700K, the only recent power efficient high end chip is the laptop i9-13980HX, same sillicon as the i9-13900K, less than half the power draw.

[@pivorsc]

Mine 4790k sits now in home server, and i step on a land mine with 13700k :|

[@Tarukeys]

13th and 14th gen CPU will have next to zero value on the used market. This is a very bad situation. It will be like buying a lottery ticket.

[@Shadow_banned_by_YouTube]

Wrong

[@A.Froster]

​@@Shadow_banned_by_KZbinCope

[@Shadow_banned_by_YouTube]

@@A.Froster I’m a 7800X3D user lol

[@pearce_nz]

@@Shadow_banned_by_KZbin Nice try ragebaiter, seen your other comments. You don’t own that cpu nor do you believe those intels will have good re-sell value, they will NOT with this oxidation and instability scares.

[@quikesteve]

If the failure rate is close to 100% and it's a hardware problem not fixable by software what Intel needs to do is a full recall and refund. And get going with 15th Gen. Every day this keeps going it's a PR blow for Intel trustworthiness specially because they been really quiet about it.

[@LandonDean-zk4wn]

A 100% Failure rate clearly isn't happening. Everyone who bought a 13th and 14th gen chip would be up in arms. 100% is clearly false.

[@quikesteve]

@@LandonDean-zk4wn 13th isn't having that level of failure, but high end 14th their failure is extremely high. And Intel still dancing around the problem.

[@J-237]

@@LandonDean-zk4wnpeople don’t realise they have issues because most of the time they don’t even push their CPU to the max I’ve been unable to open anything related to unreal engine and play regular games without the odd blue screen for months without having to down clock heavily which I shouldn’t have to do.

[@J-237]

@@LandonDean-zk4wnIt’s when you have large amounts of CPU usage you start to see issues with the temperature and system crashes.

[@Ms-a_1]

Failure rate means crashes daily. You have to live with it. Intel pushed too much power to their cpu and it's started but ing inside.

[@MrMacMan23]

Take GamersNexus off the blacklist you cowards

[@BattousaiHBr]

huh? im out of the loop.

[@MrMacMan23]

@@BattousaiHBr last year GamersNexus had a series of videos showing wrong, and sloppy reporting and reviews from LTT. Linus threw a fit, but after the community said that errors should be accounted for, LTT apologized, said they were going to slow down (not 1 video a day, etc). Linus tho seems to believe this was a personal attack and has since refused to name GN despite stories like the one in the clip originating from GN

[@BattousaiHBr]

@@MrMacMan23 thanks

[@CookyMonzta]

4:17 Intel will never admit _anything_ that will lead to them being forced to recall those chips. That would be their swan song and they know it! It'll be AMD vs. ARM vs. RISC-V from that point on!

[@skyrimguy32423]

Still waiting for a mainchannel video regarding the issue.

[@EARTHROMR]

Gamers Nexus has you covered

[@Kevin-mx4vm]

Linus Shill Tip won't

[@skyrimguy32423]

​@@Kevin-mx4vm Thats what i fear. He has been sponsored by intel a lot. Now not reporting about the arguably biggest pc hardware scandal in younger history is a little suspicious.

[@mukulnag1578]

As someone who knows about chip development, this will take a long time to recover from, the finalized silicon is a big thing, usually after production it doesn't change, so if they want to change that, its 1 year a minimum, as firmware will need to change and be validated on the new silicon.

[@SIPEROTH]

They are not gonna change anything. They will just release the Bios fix for the bad voltages and move on on releasing 15th gen. They aren't gonna bother re-releasing there current chips. If you got a chip going bad RMA it and when you get a new one just run the bios fix so it won't get damaged by the bad voltages and that is it.

[@mathvisuallyexplained6839]

As a game dev I can say that ideed 14900k crashes unreal at least once a day

[@Tugela60]

Laptop i9s are just fine, so it is not an i9 issue.

[@X_irtz]

@@Tugela60 Where does he mention a laptop in his comment?

[@Xeonzs]

1:10 during the 1080ti days we had customers who wanted multiple 1080tis in their servers because why fork up 3x the price for 5% more performance. I thought it was awesome cause I was waiting for my own at the time, I remembering thinking "The procurement guy did a nice job on this choice".

[@dansanger5340]

The 13900K and 14900K actually do support ECC, with the right chipset, etc.

[@squatch545]

And now for Arrow Lake, Intel wants to raise the TjMax to 105 degrees. smh

[@marcinkarpiuk7797]

There is leak that new chips was tested with 250w - that dont look good...

[@originalscreenname44]

At least they lowered the clock speed to 5.7 ghz so that those expectations will be way low when they have to tweak the microcode again.

[@Son37Lumiere]

Arrow Lake's performance may not be that great now considering this revelation. If Intel has any brains left they'll want to lower the TDP to reduce any possible chance of something like this happening again.

[@Tugela60]

It is not the temperature that is the issue, it is inappropriate voltages.

[@squatch545]

@@Tugela60 Don't voltages increase temps?

[@AndrewRoberts11]

Oh for the days of the 486, when cpus were as interoperable as SIMMS, ISA Cards, with one CPU socket standard, an Intel, AMD, Cyrix, IBM, ... chip could be dropped into.

[@LiberatedMind1]

Business doesn't allow that anymore.

[@AndrewRoberts11]

The US Government once required it, with a minimum of two independent manufacturers for every component.

[@kakosky76]

I've been running an i5-13400F (C0 stepping, so Alder Lake die) for seven months without issues. Should I be worried anyway because my CPU it's labeled as "13th gen." or it only affects Raptor Lake based silicon? Intel should clarify which CPU models are affected as soon as possible.

[@8ettieP46e]

do you over clock? seems like it effects overclocking or at high temps/power settings... they burn twice as bright but half as long...

[@kakosky76]

​@@8ettieP46e No, I don't. In fact, I disabled Asus Performance Enhancement in BIOS, that basically set unlimited power draw and changed PL1 and PL2 to 95W and 125W respectively, letting Tau at default.

[@guilhermeam9990]

@@kakosky76 Don't worry man, apparently only the i7 and i9 CPUs are experiencing this problem

[@ZaJaClt]

​@@guilhermeam9990 i built a 13600k pc in december last year, it shuts off randomly once a month but i do have poxer issues in general sometimesas i live quite remotely, and apart from that its very stable at 5ghz, undervolted as per all the yputube guides on a dirt cheap asrock z790 pg lightning

[@FeintMotion]

That's an Alder Lake part. Intel rebranded a lot of Alder Lake silicon to make lower end 13th and 14th gen SKUs

[@ChrisM541]

This is what happens when you've use up all your voltage headroom - you invent more. Unfortunately, you also fry your CPU's. Well done Intel.

[@game.different]

The closest historical failure I can think of close to this would be the old F00F bug in Intel Pentium MMX processors. It was eventually ‘fixed’ with an operating system workaround.

[@Razzy_D9111]

This is a sign of something deeper, stop licking the boot of the brand.

[@ElectricityTaster]

No reason Nvidia can't swoop in and sell us GPUs with integrated CPUs and memory. ALL GLORY TO THE MONOLITH PC.

[@Son37Lumiere]

@@ElectricityTaster They tried but got slapped down by the FTC for anti-competitive reasons since they wanted to buy ARM in totality, which being nvidia would have immediately closed source it and turned into another pay to play removing many options. It would have been very bad for consumers.

[@Son37Lumiere]

Intel has been a bad company for many years and for many reasons, one big example being when they gave big discounts to the big vendors like Dell if they didn't sell any AMD products. This is their biggest fk up though.

[@ElectricityTaster]

@@Son37Lumiere Ok, so NVIDIA will completely change how we understand hardware so we no longer need a CPU, just GPUs.

[@sovahc]

Do you really think that they had no idea considering all internal testing? Thanks, intel.

[@Shadow_banned_by_YouTube]

Thanks, Steve

[@surgiocomputing1761]

This in my opinion what happens when you recoil and cover-up a logic flaw known as meltdown and spectre. No one really knew why the opcodes are flags were placed in the prior generation Intel chips but surely it's not the end and this is what 2600 magazine described as a pioneer evolution when the assembly language of Intel CPU chips leaked.

[@Riyozsu]

Still not on mentioning terms with Gamers Nexus?

[@BakedCanadian]

My 4090 13900k build has been a complete nightmare.... 4090 was randomly blue screening and hard crashing just a few months after building, so I purchased a cablemod adapter to prevent cable bending, cablemod adapter melts itself to my gpu.. Rma'd the card and issues went away, but soon after this I start getting out of memory / access violation errors, BSOD's and complete freezes which progressively get worse over time. Lowered my MB voltages and p-cores as suggested by some official intel statements in addition to users experiencing similar issues. Waking my computer up from sleep yesterday results in the pc making some unusual sounds and then powering off... now the MB won't even light up. Thank god I bought the extended warranty from memory express for my MB + cpu...

[@Oomlie]

Linus some of us werent even alive that long ago lol, this is our first tech space failure for some

[@originalscreenname44]

I pretty sure everyone here was alive when the plethora of fire hazard components, from motherboards, PCI-e riser cables, to 12V-HPWR was getting talked about.

[@iLegionaire3755]

Intel basically told me that I could piss off asking for a refund or recall of my dead 14900K. Remind me clearly Intel, why am I supposed to care about Arrow Lake again? You don’t care to fix Raptor Lake, yet will push Arrow Lake on us as a Raptor Lake instability fix?Reprehensible. AMD is about to become the dominant CPU manufacturer at this rate, and Intel is advertising AMD for Lisa Su.

[@SIPEROTH]

Intel kept their high chip sales by still keeping server market. Many consumers already jumped to AMD so Intel although doesn't want to lose all consumers still doesn't care much about individual consumers as much as it cares about servers companies ordering chips by the thousands. Which is probably why they didn't care much about showing you the finger. Although we don't know if this issues exist on their Xeon server chips though it still a hit on reputation(that is important when dealing with corporate clients) and also a lost of a part of the market that actually built servers on consumer chips. So this will have at least some impact on their bottom line even away from consumer market and will definitely give AMD a little more power in the game.

[@abavariannormiepleb9470]

Linus’ statement regarding ECC is incorrect, probably due to not being aware that Intel changed this. All LGA 1700 i7 and i9 CPUs support ECC, it depends on the motherboard chipset (only W680 and R680E) to be able to use ECC memory support.

[@ImperatorSupreme]

I bought a 13700K back in 2022. While I have not experienced issues (the information I’m seeing points to the issues originating sometime in 2023) the fact that I cannot be sure if I could be affected seriously shakes my faith in Intel. I’ve already started recommending to those who come to me with PC building advice chose AMD (because of better long term socket support and the upgrade path to X3D chips, the single best gaming chips in existence.) But I agree with GamersNexus on this. Intel needs to identify what batches of CPUs may be affected publicly, they need to provide a clear plan for how they will be rectifying the issue for affected customers. And then they need to follow through and execute well. If they can’t do that, I know that I’ll be buying AMD next time I rebuild.

[@Miragexe]

Fixing it is one thing, but how does it even happen in the first place.

[@Dandan-tg6tj]

Cpu shapes favor them bending and motherboard manufacturers don't know (don't care) their motherboards are lame. Put them together with a huge cooler for processors with high TDP and you get exactly this: things happening. Anyone cared to notice how much all motherboards bend lately?

[@toiletfx5679]

It's pretty obvious. Intel owns their own fabs and have been pretty notorious for reusing the same process node and just increasing the power target every generation to keep up with competition from tsmc / Samsung because for whatever reason they are unwilling or unable to shrink their process node. This inability to make more efficient process nodes has lead to powertargets that are pretty much on the edge of what their silicon can handle. In short they drove their high end chips too close to the sun and are now paying the price.

[@VVayVVard]

@@toiletfx5679 The oxidation meanwhile seems to have stemmed from a fabrication issue.

[@teardowndan5364]

I have two Coppermine P3s, both have been flawless. The only significant problem I can think of is the gut-wrenching noises bare-die HSF mounting on those sometimes made. Many CPUs were killed by chipped or cracked die during (dis)mounting accidents, especially when using twist-on HSFs like the Golden Orb - I have one of those too. As for what to replace 13/14th gen chips with, the obvious answer would be 14th-gen chips newer than whenever it is that Intel fixed its plating contamination issue. That was supposedly fixed at some point in 2023.

[@kassd2]

What a surprise, Linus with all his testing labs didn't know that intel chips are bad! Event previous generations (11th) of intel chip are bad. They are so hot, that I had to buy biggest Noctua cooler to make it silent in office workloads. It looks like intel simply boosted their chips until they literally fried themselves

[@PimpinBassie2]

3:30 Coppermine was solid. I think Linus means Tualatin. I got the latest Tualatin (1400/133) in my P3 retro rig right now.

[@cks2020693]

just built my new pc last week with 7800X3D, no complaints whatsoever, cool as a cucumber with 240mm AIO

[@pearce_nz]

I purchased it over a year ago and has been the best component purchase I’ve ever made, simply incredible, no need for 1000w psu hell you dont even need 850 when running a high end gpu with it but the insurance is nice, and don’t need the highest end 360mm AIO to keep it under control in boost clocks.

[@ThmsDouglas]

@@pearce_nz So far no issues with mine as well and have had mine about a year as well.

[@yanava]

The problem is much more on reputation than it is on hardware and costs - since not all of the product line is heavily affected. Is it a big fuck up? Yes. But I don't think the consumer outrage will be big enough. Most people do not buy the super high end ones, so probably no one will buy them now. For Dell this means their higher end models will now be AMD. Again, for reputation this sucks.

[@daveg4417]

3:17 - "CPUs are always rock solid"... Seriously? Wanna bet??? Google the AMD 5950X BSOD issue. It affected thousands of people. Everyone seems to have amnesia about it. Every tech channel is roasting Intel over 13/14 gen but no one bothered to even cover the cover-up by AMD on the 5950X hardware issues. AMD refused to acknowledge it and deleted forum posts on it for more than a year. I have a $6000 5950X system here with the issue that I don't even use because of it. I replaced it with an Intel W2400 system. Intel already announced that the 13/14 gen issue is fixable through microcode changes.

[@vMaxHeadroom]

Absolutly right! The absurdity and sudden amnesia is sadly par for the course...Intel, AMD, Nvidia all have had problems in the past and no doubt will have in the future. Ultimatly it is how they deal with this issue. Oh and I have a 14900K (absolutly rock solid. so far) which I immideatly dropped the vcore to 1.325v as the MSI Z790 Carbon motherboard was pushing way too much voltage on auto in the 1.45v+ range...Thankfully as someone that likes overclocking/undervolting I knew how to play with the bios settings as people who buy the K CPU's should... Yes it is an Intel mistake and they need to make it rright for anyone that is having issues, and with the fix coming out and a statement stating that they will help anyone wuith issues should at least be highlighted...

[@Ilestun]

Why don't you just change the CPU instead of letting a $6000 system unused ?

[@daveg4417]

@@Ilestun - It's a flaw in the design of the R9-5950X, so putting another 5950X into the system won't make any difference. Lots of people RMA'ed and got processors with the exact same issue back from AMD. I changed the BIOS settings to cut everything back and clamped the Thermal Throttle really low so that the system doesn't over-thermal and BSOD. It's usable but the spiking even at idle is probably going to degrade the silicon and kill the processor eventually. Plus I can only get about 80% of the full performance this way. Google "AMD 7950X BSOD Thermal" and enjoy all of the posts of people with the 7950X having the same issue as the 5950X. It's AMD's PBO design that is the issue.

[@daveg4417]

@@Ilestun - Some people did tests where they swapped out their AMD 16-Core with the 8- or 12-Core, and the system ran perfectly stable. Put back in any 16-Core 5950X and back to reboots and BSODs. On my system you could hear the fans ramping even at idle. I ran some test software like TaskMan and HWInfo, and even with that low load the 5950X would spike up every second or two to 100% CPU Usage, eventually hit over-thermal and BSOD. In regular apps that use some processor power like 20% CPU+ it would BSOD within seconds from the 100% CPU Usage spikes and thermals. It's a flaw in the design. Tens of thousands of people with this issue isn't just some silicon lottery issue. Read all of the forum threads at AMD and other sites, people did full investigations into the issue. AMD just covered it up. I won't buy an AMD 16-core processor again. I would have to get a 5900X and try that in my system. I got my 5950X at least working by setting the PBO lower and setting Thermal clamp to 80C. But I don't get the boost clocks and high performance. And the constant 100% usage spikes at idle are going to degrade the silicon.

[@misham6547]

We don't know if it can be solved with a microcode change; it looks like it's both a hardware and software bug, and that the hardware is getting damaged so Intel might need to recall

[@chris6ix.]

They could also offer people free (or nearly free) 15th gen versions of the chips they now have and are defective (E.g if you have a defective 14900k, they give you an almost free 15900k, if you have a 13700k, you get a 15700k etc). If these issues are not affecting 15th gen, then I think that might be cheaper than trying to pull R&D crew from the new ones and put them back onto 13/14th gen. This also assumes that 15th gen is compatible with the same boards that 13/14th gen use, which i don't know, I'm not an Intel guy.

[@raiznsisig]

Me still on the way to buy an older cpu: Not my problem...

[@mthlay15]

😂 yeah I wait three years for user to work out the bugs. Haha

[@xxraptorsc0pezxx]

Yea if you want an Intel just get a 12th Gen

[@the-answer-is-42]

Yeah, new hardware can be nice, but there is nothing wrong with something older. Just look at how out of date the hardware NASA uses for space stuff (older = you know it inside out and it might handle radiation better).

[@saab9251]

Dell is only Intel in a lot of their workstation and server setups. When it comes to the workplace, many IT departments refuse to use AMD because “Intel known”. I just ordered 30 laptops and PC’s and was told by IT at work that they would not order AMD cpu systems. Equivalent thinkpad laptops from Lenovo were 30-40% cheaper with AMD processors and if I spent equal money I could have gotten substantially better hardware for my engineering group. But alas, we’ve been “Intel only” for 25 years and they won’t change until something like this takes half the company offline. Everyone should remember this is happening during the largest hardware changeout we’ve ever seen for the looking windows 11 upgrade for security support.

[@dkDyno]

Im royally pissed..i went from 12th to 13th. Now i wish i stuck with my 12600k

[@FarAway88]

Are you experiencing any stability issue? Not all cup are bad. I owned 13900k and never had any problem what so ever, switched last year solely due to heat output.

[@dkDyno]

@FarAway88 none so far but it's still majorly concerning

[@ZackForester]

They're not going to go back and redesign 13th and 14th gen CPUs. They're just going to replace them with new 15th and 16th gen ones.

[@Dungeon47]

Scandalous!

[@zoeycch]

That warranty trickery won't work everywhere though. For example, german mandatory warranty law is: If the product breaks within 2 years, the manufacturer/seller has to fix/replace, and then you get another 2 years warranty on the fix/replacement. The best Intel could do is keep doing this until next gen chips are out and then give everyone a next gen chip as their next replacement...

[@alwynjonathan7808]

AMD no longer requires a marketing budget.

[@SIPEROTH]

They should make an ad campaign with the Bethesda guy's words. "It just works".

[@xbriskx]

Does the guy on the right know anything? Linus is also trying to interact with him but he just sits there looking at the laptop.

[@SlavTiger]

sticking with my 5800x3d for now.

[@corvoswsattano]

I replaced an old PowerEdge T410 with an HP Zworkstation Mini, with an i9-12900k 32GB of RAM, and a 4TB 990 Pro, and that thing whoops some serious a$$, it cost half of a similarly spec'd server, and uses 1/32nd of the power, it's also soooo much quieter. Right now it runs the old server in a VM, on Windows 11 Pro, as well as 4 virtual workstations, powering a whole other locations computers to keep all the company data onsite at the main hub location. It's incredible.

[@itchimo82]

Of course they mention Level 1 Tech but NOT the OTHER channel Level 1 was talking to at Computex LOL

[@LubomirGeorgiev]

lol

[@rfreaky4717]

i wonder if that specific channel did something in the past

[@gunturbayu6779]

I think they still butthurted about that one spesific channel lmao

[@LubomirGeorgiev]

@@rfreaky4717 yeah hurt his feelings

[@rfreaky4717]

@@LubomirGeorgiev and wallet probably

[@breakkblade4784]

The Thing is that i dont care how intel manages to replace the CPU's but i paid a few hundred euros for my 13900k and shits Bad dude... Even replacing them with a new one isnt an Option...

[@chris62721]

As a 13900k owner I now regret more than ever not switching to AMD

[@Dandan-tg6tj]

Why? Does your computer have issues because of the CPU or you just forgot to match the cooling capability with the 300 plus W TDP of the CPU?

[@Alex-wg1mb]

as 13600k user was planning to upgrade ti 13900k it is sad. now I have to change mobo and cpu for amd and more expensive ddr5

[@simonoleary9264]

​​@@Dandan-tg6tj Based on my understanding of the issue, it has nothing to do with overheating and everything to do with the default power draw settings defined in the CPU microcode itself. (except for some 13th gen have also got oxidation degradation problems in the silicon substrate itself). Because it's a fundemental problem with the CPU, the problem is that the damage seems to be cumulative - this is why so many CPUs are starting out fine and are later becoming unstable. If there's one place that will always have adequate cooling it will be server farms, and some are reporting failure rates of around 50% for 13th & 14th gen (12th gen failures were probably more like 5% or less).

[@DustyCruz]

I own a 13900k as well. I haven't experienced any kind of instability yet, but like many have said; it's just a matter of time. I did however download the microcode fix that my motherboard manufacturer rolled out a few days ago. Still, it's the uncertainty that bothers me more than anything.

[@vMaxHeadroom]

Not sure why? Are you having issues? I have a 14900K and prior to that many K CPU's going all the way back 15 years...As a K CPU which are mainly for enthusiasts who should know a thing or two about bios settings, I immediatlly droppped the vcore from auto whuich was providing way too much voltage in the 1.45V+ range down to 1.3v, no issues whatsoever, boost two cores to 5.9GHz and an all core at 5.6GHz with a max 320w limit...with a 41K Cinebench R23 multi core score and temps hitting low 90's with a 360 AIO. I drop it to Intel stock settings when not playing around at 253w with a fixed 1.278v....I did buy it after all to play with overclocking and undervolting! Motherboard manufacturers have been blasting too much voltage at stock auto settings (they have been doing this for masny generations!!!) but also Intel's fault for allowing this but bottom line, I fully expect Intel to look after any customer who has a bad CPU, if they do not, that will be the end of them...

[@blazzmatazz9051]

What should I be on the look out for with my i5-13th gen? All I hear is instability, but with how poorly PC games are being optimized lately, instability seems common

[@jhaabhinav]

You namedrop Wendell from level1 techs but not Steve from gamersnexus? Stop treating him like voldemort linus, you're better than that. I've been a fan of both of you since years but this behavior of not even mentioning GN after they brought your flaws out in the public purview(which, mind you, had helped you and your company become a better version of yourself) is kinda sad.

[@Krisztian5HUN]

yes they just ghosting GN bcause.... ego....

[@ThmsDouglas]

Ehhh I would be the same way.

[@Sponsi_PL]

What enrages me, is that the stock exchange doesn't seem to react much to this crap... they should shit on intel by now! The same was before Ryzen times when before the 10th gen intel there were those malware/trojan things found out... 5% or 10% drop in stock pricing is not enough!

[@MetroidRTX]

Its time to go AMD boys

[@4ujase]

Dr Ian Curtist also alluded to the badly designed Intel Sockets. The non-square format shaped sockets not ideal for dissipating the high temperatures.

[@KryptLynx]

Apple stopped using Intel processors just in time... They dodged such a bullet.

[@SIPEROTH]

They stopped using intel for quite some time now so it doesn't really fit the "just in time".

[@KryptLynx]

@@SIPEROTH I think it was gen 12 times, just before gen 13 release?

[@JohnnyHughes1]

Theoretically, Intel had too aggressive (or broken) microcode that called too much voltage for boosting. They said they are working on a microcode update that will fix machines that are not physically damaged. So,.they don't need to replace all. But, they can't eun out the clock on the warranty. The damage occurred during the warranty period so they will have to fix them regardless. The best bet would be a chip they are currently working on that they allow to work in the older chipset machines. They actively and artificially break compatibility right now to make you change the platforms. I'm sure they can produce chips that would not require that if they had to.

[@thatfatman6978]

My good old 8600K still chugging along just great.

[@rUmXz]

I've been using desktop chips for servers for the last decade, starting with Sandy Bridge, especially for their ST performance. You can google dedicated servers and you'll see desktop chips are very common. I'd only run Xeon and Epyc's if you're running mission critical services and also need ECC memory, AND if you need more than 128/256GB or more memory per machine as well as Enterprise features like IPMI/BMCs etc.. The latest desktop platforms can support up to 256GB of RAM. The latest AMD Ryzen 7950x just utterly stomps the Xeons that were released just a few years ago, in both ST and MT performance. If you're on a budget and also need ECC memory, then the new Eypc 4000 series are basically AM5 Zen4 desktop chips with Enterprise features.

[@sator_project]

I've been having issues with my AMD machine for years. After pulling a ship of theseus, only the CPU was left. So I said 'screw it, I've never had an issue with Intel, I don't care if it's slower'... I built and migrated to a 14700k machine just a few weeks ago....

[@BladeCrew]

Good luck, your going to need it.

[@tmsphere]

A lot less of those fail, might still want to uv it a bit.

[@purplemonkeyelephant]

I always go AMD but built a 14700k machine 2 weeks ago to benefit from the inbuilt iGPU decoding. Feel pretty stupid now

[@petersmythe6462]

They have plans to release a microcode update in a few weeks to stop the CPU from requesting too much voltage. Problem is that this only stops it from damaging itself, not repairs existing damage. Systems that have already overvolted transistors to the point of failure will need to be replaced even with the microcode update.

[@AidenPryde3025]

This was impacting W680 servers with 13th and 14th gen CPUs with ECC memory. Game servers sometimes want clock speed, not core count.

[@johnnygoodface]

It's been said that it's a higher voltage level than expected issue (which degrades the transistors on the "long" run)

[@1996connor]

Haven't had an Intel CPU since the release of the first Ryzen, Very happy with my 7800x3d

[@ThmsDouglas]

That's when I switched just to try it and haven't looked back so far.