This is why Old Racing Games are better! KuruHS reacts to Roflwaffle

[@KuruHS]

Join me live right now! www.twitch.tv/kuruhs

[@ZAINILEXTHE1ANDONLY]

on og yung tricycle

[@C.A._Old]

*No man. they are masterpieces.*

[@scalliano]

Full disclosure: I was late to the party with Blur. It completely passed me by at the time and it was only through this channel and Whitelight's documentary on the game a couple of years ago that prompted me to go back and pick it up second-hand for the PS3. I have no nostalgia for the game at all, and I can categorically say that I regret sleeping on it back in the day because it is fantastic. It's not just nostalgia bias.

[@C.A._Old]

*No man. they are masterpieces.*

[@damianea103]

I had the same experience with FH1 earlier this year, was always a PS guy, never tried FH until FH3. Went back to play the first one for the first time and holy shit it's good, it's become my favourite in the series.

[@keisuketakahasi4584]

yeah true i played some older racing games on the ps2 emu and it was simply better designed, better progression, etc they just dont get what we want

[@joeyoung9596]

The thing is, old games did better in terms of gameplay, handling, game modes and features. Which newer games struggled to capture. For example, in another genre like FPS, Modern Warfare 2019 & Modern Warfare 2007. Modern Warfare 2007 was simple and understandable game to get into, the map variety was a lot, and the layout was a simple 3 lane structure, the movement was a bit slow but was balance enough to compliment the gameplay, compared that the newer COD games which still has issues with unbalanced movement etc. Racing games on the other hand, in newer games, the graphics has improved, but the gameplay feels very artificial, like at times a cars feels like it doesn't have weight or sensation of driving compared to older games, I get brake to drift is a new innovation for arcade racing, but Arcade Machine games did that kind of handling model a long time ago in the 80's and 90's like Outrun etc. Plus, racing games has many types of standard handling models, not just brake to drift, but steering to drift, and driving in a race line. Need For Speed since the 90's was known for driving in a race line handling model, that's similar to Forza Horizon series, but the handling was made simpler to make it easier for players to drive. Games modes on the other hand, NFS had a lot of variety, like Drag, Drift, Sprint, and circuit. Challenges on the other hand is a combination and compliment of all races on one mission/bosses. Which most new gamers don't understood. Newer NFS, barely got many game modes, is either circuit & sprint take out the drag races and challenges, or just challenges. And yeah like Kuru said, nostalgia and main features that made a game stand out from others are two different things. :)

[@keisuketakahasi4584]

@@joeyoung9596 another problem nowadys is the devs think they can half ass a game and patch it afterwards. in ps1/2 area it was simply impossible without buying another copy of the game. yes gt2 had flaws and was rushed but overall it was functional and it didnt hinder progression. gt40 appeared? ok reroll then lol

[@FreshTillDeath56]

The reason the old racing games really are better is not because they handle well or have better accuracy, it's because they had way more personality and made better attempts to put everything into a cohesive package that put you in that world, whichever it was. Gran Turismo 2's soundtrack is so iconic because it works in tandem with it's visual style to put you into that classy, fast-jazzy stylized "realistic" world. I guess what I'm saying is, with racing games, presentation really is everything. The only racing games I know of that could survive purely on their own without any soundtrack or style are Dirt Rally and Richard Burns Rally. And even THOSE games have better style than what's pumped out these days.

[@taiefmiah]

Like it focused a lot on the atmosphere there generated. I remember the midnight club series and how each game had it's own personality with the atmosphere. That cohesion feels like a complete experience. I play horizon 4 and it's just bright overexposed, music doesn't fit, the map could be whatever. A good modern game was dirt rally, the physics, art style, car selection and tracks were super memorable. Each had their own quirks and characteristics

[@BlueShift2000]

If i compare the base of the games (handling) it is definitely worser than 80% of older Racing games. And yes, the atmosphere is also important.

[@FreshTillDeath56]

@blueshift661 right. That's not even really taking the driving model into account. Driving physics are not what's ever remembered 10 years down the line, unless that literally is the selling point on the box like Richard Burns.

[@DaDARKPass]

Exactly! You can hate on the Crew 1 all you want, but atleast it had SOME personality. The Crew 2 is lifeless and boring.

[@DatPenguin97]

I have to disagree a bit. People really say they want an UG2 or MW. They might MEAN we need a well made game but they definitely more often than not don't really SAY that, instead repeating "UG2 remaster" (yes, they usually don't even know what the difference is between a remaster and a remake) over and over again.

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

true, i saw that soo many times to the point i believe Kuru is delusional for not noticing any of it

[@Airbigbawls]

I don't fucking care just I just want a good game for once, instead of this overproduced underdeveloped casual slop we get all over media.

[@antonkirilenko3116]

@@TheCapitalWanderer If the game is good, people usually stop caring about it not being the old game, but better. People say "gimme U2 remaster" because they genuinely think that's the best and the most realistic thing that the developers actually **can** make. Nobody believes that the devs are just able to make something better and new.

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

@@antonkirilenko3116 no, if you have more than one braincell you should've already know why making a UG2 Remaster wouldn't work in the current days, not just because of different music era, vehicle licenses, a remaster is basically putting a graphic mod and a 60fps patch on an old game, even a visual novel player knows that'd be a loss for everyone involved.

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

@@Airbigbawls blame that on Horizon, NFS now might not be in the best conditions but they are still willing to try out something new. be it a simple art style, or a cinematic race from one end of america to the other. hell, look at NFS Prostreet and tell me there's another developer that are willing to risk so much to make something like that.

[@ThunderTHR]

For me, part of the reason why I have such a connection with older racing games in general is largely because of just how much more... *simple* they are to play. I don't have to worry about being connected to the internet at all times, I don't have to worry about FOMO mechanics, or microtransactions, or having to worry about something being potentially re-balanced on the fly and throwing everything out of whack because the game suddenly needs to be updated with a patch. Those older games are something that I can get a better impression of knowing exactly the game I'll be playing, or getting a vibe just from looking at videos or even the box art itself.

[@BuhBuhGuyMan]

This is the most unbiased comment on this video by far ,I'm not surprised this didn't get hearted

[@chechenko_9430]

3:10 Reason why GT4 was lacking a lot of features and an online mode was because of the ps2 limitations, specially the RAM, in the present there’s a mod for gt4 that improves some of the stuff that was bad in the original game, like balancing, and other quality of life improvements. However although the creator is trying to increase the number of cars in the track and improve the AI, is virtually impossible due to the way the game was code around the limit RAM the ps2 had at the time Seriously, that game having almost a 1000 cars and running at 1080i at 60 fps in some regions is a miracle if nothing else, even if GT4 isn’t that better or is missing some features from us predecessor, we have to give it credit because what polyphony achieved is nothing short of a miracle

[@_remblanc]

It did get an online mode through the Public Beta thing, though, so it was absolutely possible.

[@zef9151]

As a PS2 owner I fully agree that PS2 isn't a technically great console even for its time. A lot of people bought it for coming out early, ongoing PS1 hype and a cheap DVD player.

[@reinbeers5322]

@@_remblanc GT4 Online beta wasn't quite the same game. In many regards it was closer to GT5.

[@_remblanc]

​@@reinbeers5322 You seem to confuse it with HD Concept because it was literally just GT4 but with online capability.

[@CLOYO]

​@@_remblancwithout career though

[@AKRXI]

NFSMW shaped my music taste till this day, I can't see a modern racing game's playlist shaping anyone's music taste

[@_remblanc]

I like NFS 2015's song list, and Unbound if not shapes, but at least accommodates for my music tastes. People shit on Money so much but as a fan of both Flo Milli and Rico Nasty I found the track to be a great mix of the two's styles that complement each other very well.

[@FreshTillDeath56]

Right. Those games and those soundtracks effectively captured a vibe that shaped people's tastes and interests for literally a decade.

[@Critical365]

Forza horizon

[@Krymch4k]

Wreckfest ost is fire though

[@Fritzelgard]

Unfortunately has nothing to do with the game’s playlist, music was consumed much more differently back in 2005

[@tompramanaaccount8892]

Usually playing older games requires you to put your shoe on that time period when that game released and understand how the game aged. But if you immediately feel that game is good without nostalgia bias (usually when you never play that game before), then it is that good of a game.

[@_remblanc]

Racing games have aged remarkably well. I consider Burnout 3 the best racing game of all time and I first played it in 2023.

[@Azazantei]

​@@_remblancHonestly to add to that Point. Newer Racing Game tend to be idk how to put it other than "Car Guy" and "Realistic Simulator" sort of stuff. Like dude i don't care if you're a Car Guy or someshit or if you know how Thousands of Car felt personally because you've been driving it all your life but like shit i play Game for fun not to become a 'Lite' you it just weird. And because of that as well many Old Racing Game has its own distinct feeling to each other look Realistic Forza is fine but if everything is fucking Forza what's the point? Like just give me a PC Version of Wangan or someshit yeah it's not Realistic but it's Fun, and also probably idk depends on the Dev no Microtransactional bullshit because i'm a Rich Car Guy type of shit.

[@Batya-ey8cf]

@@Azazantei that's why i appreciate some midnight club games for not having licensed cars, because it's make theme individuals. Modern racings don't understand that. Like the casual gamer can't see a difference between them because all they see is the same car, same track and only slightly different handling on tracks. They don't have unique artstyle, nor do they have their own atmosphere that can be differentiated from each other.

[@CyanRooper]

​@@AzazanteiArcade games used to appeal even to people who didn't like cars or racing. Burnout 3 and most Mario Kart games are the ones that are used as examples of games that appealed to those people. Sadly we don't have games like that being made anymore with the closest one being the new Lego 2k Drive game but that has a buttload of microtransactions that ruin the experience.

[@tompramanaaccount8892]

@@_remblanc some aren't like a weird physics and all, but if it's fun then I don't care I'm gonna have fun with it. Nice of you mentioning burnout, and yes it's one racing game that aged very well.

[@Floh2802]

I think Burnout had this so immensely right. You make a racing game like Burnout 1 and then keep on improving it until you can't anymore with Burnout Revenge. And when you can't improve the game anymore, then flipping the entire script and introducing and entirely new concept like Open World in Burnout Paradise is the only thing you can do. Too many devs these days try to make every single sequel have some kind of "script flip", because it makes their game unique in a flooded market.

[@prod.byjoker3778]

Dustin's comment at 16:27 is honestly true, you weren't bombarded with story beats in MW and Carbon that you needed to pay attention to, you had one goal in both themes games, with MW doing a better job at investing you in the story than Carbon did

[@HyakuJuu01300]

Bro how this waffle guy gonna say "I didn' play classic NFS titles like Underground or Most Wanted" with a straight face and then lecture us about how we're wrong for not liking the new shit??? The hell?

[@Iwatoda_Dorm]

As both a long time racing game fan, a fighting game fan and a soup fan, I think I can bring some delicious perspective to the table. I-I know, just hear me out... Fighting games are coming out with a massive renneisance right now and that (I believe) is soley because everyone in that space is on the same track. Everyone knows what they want and what to expect. Fans and developers alike, with content creators voicing out (with solid opinions and perspectives) what the fans want at any given notice. Harada, creator of Tekken, is literally out there right now talking to fans on twitter about their next game and how they can change it during beta-testing to make it better. Consistant updates and regular balance patches also keep the game to a high standard for fans. The whole point of selling a product is appeasing the fans, and something right now is telling the people at Forza that they want progression (so they decided to create the controversial car exp mechanic which- I don't know anything about enough to mention further, maybe it's good I dunno). But if a remake of Most Wanted is what's most wanted (⁠☞⁠ ͡⁠°⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ͡⁠°⁠)⁠☞, I also would have expected them to finally be making it since there's so much money to make in that in terms of buisness, and it could be one hell of a game. I think racing game fans are definitely being listened to, up to a point- but the developers seem to never hit the right marks on their execution to appease older fans- and for the past few years it seems... The space can definitely have its nostalgia, and why shouldn't it? But it should only ever elevate the experience and be built upon to help innovate rather than feel like pandering and repititious. I think we all agree that we wouldn't want MW to play like a modern NFS game. I'd rather wait until they can make a good nfs main line again before tackling the old series. And somehow all of these feel like they don't have enough content or variety when it's mostly just racing. Like how fighting games is just fighting. Physics and mechanics should be the first thing to be mentioned about these games, it's objective and concrete. With it should be the main aspect of the game, practically how these mechanics are used, either through story or online. Tone is easily the most opinionated and the most contreversial- which is why it is easily correspondant to nostalgia. But here's the recipe, I agree. A games tone is what help cooks the game to perfection. But something like an OST should just not be top of the list when the ingredients aren't solid or fresh. It definitely should be on the list though sure, but it feels like unbound is now just "that one game with bad soundtrack." 🍲The soup itself should at least be edible, or even tasty before adding any garnish. You as a player should expect good soup, but the garnish can help make it memorable. Most of the time, the community just wants good soup- and sometimes good soup is just not enough, because you're just too nostalgiac for the good soup with memorable garnish. We- as customers- must voice out the right wants for a good bowl. Simply have an open mind and a high standard for soup ingredients, then have hope the chefs will do the rest. Anyways thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. 🟥

[@joseluispadillapersonal]

369/10 best Ted Talk I've ever attended

[@jiri6691]

The video is right and it's weird that you cannot see that... One of modders from Pepega Edition left great comment there about what it's like to see the side of developers. You should read it Kuru. Basically said that he considers things like music drama bonkers and that he has an experience from overwhelming negative feedback when you do something new. This community is so toxic that even modders who invested hundreds of hours, maybe thousands, are not happy with it anymore...

[@tanmay0108]

As a gen z I can comfirm old racing games are better ( I was born in the year 2009)

[@gta_and_precure_fan]

Same dude, i still play the classic NFS games on PS2 and PC rather than the latest racing games which isn't really that enjoyable to play anymore (*coughs* NFS Unbound)

[@Fusion710]

dang youre young, very good that you know what the best are lol

[@Antegggggggggg]

Same but im 2008, i prefer ps2 and ps3 era games in general tho

[@gta_and_precure_fan]

@@Antegggggggggg I was born on 2005 respectively, Underground 1 was my first NFS game and Most Wanted (2005) is my second. Back in 2017/2018 i did finished Most Wanted on PC and finished the halfway of Underground 1 on PC (Meanwhile on PS2, im still at lvl. 20 i think, that's all i can remember after my copy of the PS2 version broke down a few months ago), and later finished Carbon on PS2 like 5 Months (the game is very short tbh). Now i owned the Black Edition of Most Wanted (2005) on PS2 and replaying it (already at Blacklist 11)

[@wirti94]

Nice to hear that from a Gen Z :) I'm 15 years older than you, and I was thinking it's good for you how it is now. Looks like not really actually xD

[@pinkchckn]

The problem is the assumption that when people say they want x and y, that they want it exactly like those others were. No, if i want exactly the nfsmw experience, i'll play nfsmw. The thing people want is a modern rendition, expanding on the good things that the old game delivered, while fixing some aspects, and bringing it to the modern era in terms of graphics and fidelity.

[@ToaGresh300]

So a remake?

[@NinjaXFiles]

Yes, yes they are. Because they have soul and are FUN. And no, it's not just “nostalgia” some games are actually good, and this applies to all genres out there not just racing games. The only disadvantage, is no online in majority of games and no shiny graphics with RTX (which I couldn't care less, I never cared about graphics anyways). As long as the games are fun I'm satisfied. Because I'm pretty sure games are meant to be about the fun the player has, right? lol no MTX/Endless grind/DLC bullsh%t.

[@tilburg8683]

For real bf2 is still one of the best if not the best battlefield games. Bf1 is garbage, same with bfV or 2042. Although after the abominations that are bf1 and bfV 2042 doesn't feel that bad. But compared to 1942,bf2, bf2141, bf2 modern combat bf3. Those modern titles are such garbage compared to it. The only good games that I feel like would do well when games used to be good are smaller studios actually trying. Valsheim is amazing for example. Barotrauma paint the town red etc. It's not thy hard, it's just big games don't care they just try to spam as many games and get money.

[@NinjaXFiles]

​@@tilburg8683Right? It's not all about nostalgia as some people say when modern gaming exposes itself showing it's true colors. Even the people playing their own current titles are tired of the BS. Let's not even get started on wokeism propaganda being a plague in all games these days. That's an entirely different topic on it's own, but still. It's all a mess and games were treated with more respect before.

[@TheFurryInShambles]

​​@@NinjaXFilesJust had to throw the word woke out there that's somehow supposebly fucking up moden games somehow in your world when many games in the golden eras were "woke" too 💀

[@siddiq069]

people calling me out that i "blinded by nostalgia" but i never played most classic games. and yet i still find myself way more fun than most "modern games". i feel like these people are saying this people just forgets opinion exists. and thus making the same argument and excuses. or its just "modern gaming traits"

[@nftscreenshotter6436]

​​​@@iluvmyoosiklolllllll and yet you don't go into detail about said flaws, because you yourself haven't put the games under a microscope. Go cry run back to Eden's channel, you and him both love baseless arguments 🤡

[@Bovium]

When GTA Online has a better racing community than actual racing games, you know you gotta be doing something wrong.

[@vapshockxd6516]

Problem with whatever "new" stuff is being pushed is that there is giant IF. Xp to upgrade instead of moneys? It'll work IF they balance it out. New ideas are fine, IF they are done properly.

[@berkantari981]

I loved Blackbox era but I also liked The Crew Motorfest, cars feels better than the second game and this is an instant win for me. Newer NFS games fail at making the cars feel like cars while also being arcade (or maybe I could call it sim-cade but I don't know exactly). I want cars feeling like cars just like Kuru says.

[@ToaGresh300]

Nah what Kuru and many others clearly want is an out-of-the box, easy to use physics handling, where additional input to make it feel better is not required. And there's nothing wrong with that. I played MW2005 which is what he considers his favorite and there's hardly anything realistic about that game (for crying out loud you perform a peelout every time you accelerate and the grip matches that of a time attack or even a F1 car). 2015 after extensively tuning your car for grip (not just moving the slider to grip) feels more realistic ironically.

[@DonaldDuck-s8v]

​@@ToaGresh300It's almost like it's under the arcade category or something! 0:

[@luisortega8085]

This wont be seen, but when people say that they want games like the old ones they played, they mean that they want a game that makes them feel as excited/entertained as the one they played back then.

[@MUSTDOS]

32:39 Most devs forgot that why people buy racing games from the first place; to race. It's what made the NFS Classics still stand out (sadly) to this day for arcade racing.

[@indycoone9027]

"Don't let the players optimize the fun out of the game." It can't be said more for FH4's online modes (haven't played the newest one). When the online races are only restricted to a car class specifically, all it takes it for players to get one car optimized the best for that class and then there's no variety. Adding categories like origin of manufacturer or general car classification (like Classics) would have added a lot more challenge to how players attempt to optimize their cars and could have some really creative solutions/ideas. Instead, anytime an A-class race loads up, you just select the Alfa Romeo TZ2 and you win it easily. Just awful.

[@yurei3714]

nostalgia is everywhere nowadays. renmakes. music games etc

[@CyanRooper]

Always has been 👨‍🚀🔫🧑‍🚀

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

true, but criticism still applies though, would you expect a 2006 vocaloid song in 2023? a 2006 edm song in 2023? other places either offer something new or heavily improved upon the original, take a look at current day vocaloids with Project Sekai and RIME,KAFU. listen to Future Bass, and current Porter Robinson's songs, even movies improved upon a basic premise, take a look at Spider-Man : Into the Spider Verse, remakes are basically milking nostalgia by improving on it, so i don't need to say much on it.

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

after playing Unbound, i can honestly say that the hate the game received is completely undeserved, and as i said in my comment above my own, it is better than BlackBox games in sooo many aspects.

[@axxlh]

I was playing underground 2 on my surround sound system last week and the cars just sound godly. there is a clear disparity in audio quality from the past to present. most of the car's FEEL is communicated through audio in games and they can't be arsed to work on that nowadays, they just want footage to look good in the trailers (and even edit in good car audio for those).

[@ToaGresh300]

Haven't people simply accepted the fact that cars in decades-old racing games sound like vacuum cleaners?

[@axxlh]

@@ToaGresh300 are you dense ? Have you ever even seen UG2 gameplay ?

[@ToaGresh300]

@@axxlhI played through UG1, stopped halfway and it’s not because the car sounds made my ears bleed.

[@WTFHAX93]

@@ToaGresh300 Man, you were just one game away from the massive car sound upgrade. UG1 was the last NFS game where car sounds were mid at best. UG2 has seen a major upgrade when it comes to accuracy of the sounds. It's by no means perfect (like the notorious fully upgraded R34 or Supra sounding like a Ferrari 360, for example), but still way better than the previous game.

[@axxlh]

@@ToaGresh300 play UG2 or at least watch some footage

[@waste4245]

The absolute most fun racing games from back in the days IMO are the ones that put physics and simulation so far in the forefront, that the game is literally just a playground for fucking around with the physics I still have vivid memories of playing a game called Ultim@te Race Pro (yes, this is a real title). Literally the most barebones racing game I think I've ever played, but the strong emphasis on just the driving and fast paced racing had the side effect of creating a really memorable art style and feel to it. I would almost argue that Midnight Club 3 was brilliant just because of this reason alone, and then again; I think that game benefitted from the existence of Midtown Madness which had the same kind of *PHYSICS* feel to it. So therefore: It kind of baffles me how this feeling seems to never, ever come across in newer titles (even though sim titles are really, really realistic today with the right setup).

[@PaulTheFox1988]

NFS OST is a huge part of the series, the OST is supposed to capture the culture of street racing and custom car enthusiasts (I edited this part to remove a term that had negative connotations, if I caused offense, then please accept my apologies for it) That culture has music that isn't for me, but it has to appeal to those who do like it, and if Unbound doesn't do that, then that is hurting the fans and their anger is somewhat justified. GT4 might just be more GT3, but that's what makes it the best in the series for me, I own GT5, and ended up going back to GT4, because it just hits right. He's not wrong that nostalgia creates a bias, but we are nostalgic for it for a reason, it didn't become beloved because it's rubbish, it became nostalgic because it is truly amazing, and the absences or unfixed things (aside from the ai) don't hurt the experience for most.

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

you could've just said racing enthusiast or car enthusiast, but you just gotta use boy racers, you makin' us look like femboys

[@PaulTheFox1988]

@@TheCapitalWanderer I knew it wasn't the best way to say it and that's why I apologised for it, I'll edit my comment with your suggestion, but please don't take offense as none was intended, and I certainly never meant it to mean femboy. I have nothing against effeminate men, lgbtq+ or any other minority or persons considered to be outside of so-called societal norms, and would certainly never use a term like that to offend or imply something about a person. I couldn't think of a better way to say what I meant cause my mind drew a blank at the time. I did use a term that wasn't good at all, and for that I sincerely apologise, I try to avoid offending others where I can but obviously I failed this time around.

[@piscessoedroen]

You like kissing boy racers are you?

[@Austin-l1j]

Also, in regards to the backlash, it is warranted as the car list was not intuitive at all pair that with a bad soundtrack, visuals people don’t like, and a bad story as well as only being 4 hours long is what culminated into the backlash the game got. It does not feel like a AAA game. It feels like a AA game.

[@ToaGresh300]

>4 hours long How many times did you get busted?

[@shotojae6007]

@@ToaGresh300honestly I’d say less then 4, the cops were more nuisances then a “threat in any capacity, grinding for money was the time waster. If you couldn’t out run the annoying cops that’s a skill issue.

[@yocapo32]

The problem with the car list is that it's been more or less the same since 2015, with no changes or additions to pre-existing cars, except for the conversions in Payback, and the special body kits in Unbound, and even then the latter only exists so they don't have to keep track of what mods you made to the starter car.

[@Austin-l1j]

@@ToaGresh300 I played it on the hardest difficulty and I never got busted. I thought the game was really easy. It’s around 4 hours or less.

[@Austin-l1j]

@@yocapo32 100% agree with you that was one of my main complaints before the game came out. There’s only so many reskinned lambos and convertibles I can take.

[@alperkeceli]

One thing I don’t understand: people say they want a new UG1, UG2 and MW05. Just go play these games, they act like these game are not playable anymore.

[@ToaGresh300]

Almost as if the best course of action is to not care about what's coming out. But you still shouldn't be ignorant.

[@Noman1010-nh6uh]

Bruh the reason won't a remaster is that we can play it in ps5 bro.

[@nftscreenshotter6436]

Only casuals say that though. The actual fans of those games don't want a new UG1, UG2 and MW05, we want racing games that take cues from what was so good about those games and innovates on them, creating new experiences that have the same level of care put into their own formula. Nobody is asking for a copy and paste job.

[@CYB3R2K]

They're not. Good luck finding them in modern consoles and most people don't want to deal with emulators

[@GaigeStorm]

If nostalgia is blinding us then why is it that we can go back to so many older racing games we've never had a connection with and find them far better than most we have today? Blur, Rush, Flatout, and Adventure Racing are damn good games that I overlooked

[@shotojae6007]

I’ve gotten real sick of seeing the trite and constant pestering of people saying “your just high on nostalgia get outta the past”, keep your mid ass games I’ll stick with my childhood ones till I die. At least I’m playing a game that makes me feel joy.

[@Ser_Salty]

I just picked up Flatout 1&2 on GOG for like 1,30€ each and I was instantly amazed by how good these games are. The physics, damage effects, track design, and a banger soundtrack that I immediately added some songs to my playlist from. Also I liked a lot of Unbound's music (especially Mura Masa - Deal Wiv It and Tkay Maidza's cover of Where Is My Mind), but the songs often feel very... random. Like, Underground had slower/chiller songs, but they were used for menus and tuning and stuff, not for the actual racing part, and Unbound just sort of randomly scatters them in there. Deal Wiv It would be great for Drift and Takeover events, Where Is My Mind would be great for the garage, instead they can just play anywhere. There's always going to be the people that just REEE at every song made after like 2012 as a replacement for having a personality, but as good as a lot of songs in Unbound are on their own merits, they don't fit the game or how they're used in the game. NFS (and other games) either really need to hone their soundtrack to specific themes and areas again, or just go all in on the variety and offer GTA-like radio stations (with more stations and tracks than FH, obviously. Seriously, why the fuck are they not constantly expanding their radio stations?)

[@traattatata7973]

True. Imo modern NFS would do well to have some aggressive phonk type music for the racing part and slower trap style music for menus, tuning, chill drifting perhaps, etc. You don't really need to become a boomer and put in the 20 years old tracks into the game for good soundtrack, but EA just miss the point in arranging their tracks so it all sounds so lacking in character.

[@Mr00Ted]

The thing about the “art style test” theory for unbound is I think there is no one that accepts what it is, that wouldn’t also like it being the whole game. However there are a few who dislike the clash between cars and drivers/effects.

[@theunusual_]

Nostalgia may take effect in what we'd like to give an opinion on something but if I'm listening to a song or playing a game that was from 18 years ago and still enjoying it as much shows that they are a standout, not a nostalgia.

[@C.A._Old]

*No man. they are masterpieces.*

[@hstd6604]

the nostalgia argument falls flat when actually discussing intricacies of the gameplay.

[@yobrethren]

I personally loathe the lack of some sort of fast travel in Underground 2 and the AI in Most Wanted that always breaks hella early and makes you crash into it, losing all of your momentum. And there's infinitely more of these intricacies i could point out day and night in older games, lack of map in GTA 3, Janky movements in Mafia 1, Vampire: Bloodlines doesn't have stealth mechanics all thought out, honestly not good shooting mechanics and shitty difficulty balance in Stalker (which is FPS, mind i add, and it totally shouldn't have a difficulty choise), kind of a totally bad attempt at story in Serious Sam all throughout, it should've stayed as it did in SS:FE, crap sound design (not OST though) in GTA SA. And that's just what i played extensively. Games never was perfect

[@hstd6604]

@@yobrethren the amount of people that whinge about having to drive in a driving game is so bizarre to me, also I have no comment on the other games you posted, I have no real interest in them.

[@kucinglaut453]

I really agree with Eden on 16:31 , newer racing games have too much chatter than action.

[@thewaytodrown8473]

I feel as if we are in an era of just wanting something like the past. We want improvements at the same time.

[@xyz2001xyz]

The issue is probably depending on the type of game, you can't exactly apply the same formula. NFS for example has always been just a snapshot of car culture of the time that the game was made, sure we like mw2005 because we think that its cool, WE think that its interesting, because that era of car culture was what we grew up with. Unbound as of now would be absolutely fine to the newer generation rolling around (although they could've still done better with the music, surely there's better artists out there, surely) so its understandable that people of the older generation would like to stick to the games that they like. For sim type stuff like Gran Turismo though - I guess studios could just merge the two, take what made the old games successful and then slap on the upgrades that can be done with the hardware of today. Imagine Gran Turismo 4's 24 hour races with the current gen psvr2 and weather models and the large number of opponents that the ps5 can feasibly handle. Now imagine that but in a multiplayer lobby with just as many people running around. Gran Turismo 5 deadass had multiclass races, imagine how crazy that would be to have an entire in game Le Mans 24hr with all the bells and whistles. I can only assume that according to the market analysis that the studios have done, it clearly wouldn't make them much money, taking that poll that was shown as an example - people disregarding the actual quality of the game (ai upgrades) for more quantity (tracks and cars). At this point, atleast for the more sim racing type titles - as much as the studios are to blame, I think he's pretty spot on that we're just as much to blame as well.

[@lolschrauber]

racing games are already niche enough, there's no room for major innovation that will fly with a wide audience. of course older games may seem better because back then they mighr have been more innovative but it's mostly just nostalgia glasses. microtransactions aside, new games aren't that much worse than old ones imho.

[@liviekumori]

This is the genre that I find myself going back to older games the most

[@toshineon]

Using nostalgia as an argument always felt a little weak to me, because you're making assumptions about someone's emotions. I mean, sometimes you might be right, but it's too wide of a brush to stroke an entire audience with.

[@ilrathCXV]

The talk of "innovation" and "change" is tiresome. Change for the sake of change is never good. As we have seen from racing games, change has definitely been more for the worse than for the better. As Kuru said, focus on making the game good FIRST, then try to innovate but not at the expense of the game's fun.

[@CxcxaHxxves]

I will 100% take any older NFS soundtrack (or Horizon soundtrack, for that matter) over anything we've gotten in most racing games we've had in years. There's a few songs on the Unbound soundtrack I like, but songs I listened to BEFORE the game even came out. It's rough. I just want a GOOD mix of genres again. Edit: tbh i just want my distrubed and avenged sevenfold back

[@siddiq069]

for me its way different. i dont have nostalgia for most classic games but i tried these games in emulation and found myself way more fun than modern games. i think its bc that all this "modern gaming traits" had put me off rather than feeling "me thinks old games better", it was more like "old games feels more accessible and more user friendly".

[@leirex_1]

Regarding the soundtrack outrage: Is it a circle jerk? Yes! Are people overhyping the old soundtracks? A little bit. Is the magnitude of the reaction still justified? Absolutely.

[@s0lsticefr4]

I played nfsmw 2005 for the first time in 2023 and I have finished it 4 times already despite not being a nfs fan (only played one and never finished it), I do believe the newer games are just not as good

[@ToaGresh300]

Meanwhile a few weeks back, I 100% both the Story and Challenge Series and have never touched the game to this day. Instead I went back to play 2015, Heat and yes, even Unbound. The game definitely earns the title of "Best NFS of all time" but what else is there to offer besides that?

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

​@@ToaGresh300a toxic fanbase, that‘s one

[@Speedstar235]

"I would love to see for developers, for the publishers, just once do everything the nostalgia nerds are screaming." I'm asking myself if Dangerous Driving is considered an adequate example of this for Burnout. And one that didn't turn out that great, although it is a special case.

[@paperclip9558]

The playerbase is also has some part to blame imo. They wanted this, they wanted the same generic, realistic shit, more than anything new/experimental. Modern gamers are just as stagnant as the developers. They only want something similar and familiar over and over again, stuck in a boring loop of unimaginative creativity and ideas.

[@tilburg8683]

I also kinda feel like he's just saying stuff for the sake of it. He said he never played the old stuff, and a lot of arguments he makes almost seem like they must be purposefully wrongly understanded.

[@keisuketakahasi4584]

3:33 yeah.. and in gt5,6sports&7 5/7 issues still remain.. only online and exotic brands fixed 😂

[@NJDJ1986]

Need for Speed UG/2, Most Wanted 05, Carbon, Gran Tursimo 3 & 4 are nostalgic games!! Even the underrated games like Nascar Rumble & Rumble Racing!

[@wirti94]

For me only Underground is nostalgic coz I play the others much later in my 20s lol :D

[@destructospin90]

Don't forget Nascar Thunder 2004/2005, which had a fully fledged career mode that games 15 years later can't be bother to do.

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

played Blackbox Games in 2018 - 2022 for the first time, and i gotta admit, Prostreet is the best imo. UG duology, while it does offers a lot of tuning options, most of them are just copypasted bodyparts, and the rubberband is insanely bad MW05 has a good pursuit system and a decent world map, but the racing itself is awfully boring, Carbon is too short and heavily limits your playstyle. Prostreet made the one thing that's important in a racing game, to be really really good. the racing part. the sense of speed.

[@Noman1010-nh6uh]

​@@destructospin90I love nascar

[@lilgemini4032]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@TheCapitalWandererNo MW05 racing wasn’t boring at all, tf are you smoking

[@prod.byjoker3778]

On the music thing with NFS games, the more recent ones were too heavily focused on one genre as opposed to the older titles, which alwaes had a mixture of hip-hop, rock, etc. You barely take notice of the tracks transitioning into other songs in the older titles since everything was catered to play in certain scenarios (like how you'd never hear music meant for intense races in the main menu, chase themes never spilled over into the freeroam, hell I'm sure everyone prolly remembers the first time they heard the carbon menu OST for the first time).

[@lordeilluminati]

kinda wrong, the ghost games era (except Heat which the soundtrack has a theme. Night time use rap and trap, heightening the sense of illegal racing, daytime use pop and latin songs, they are more happy and carefree since the daytime races dont offer any danger and they are pure fun) are way too eclectic to the point of not having any character on their own. All of the classic games werent too eclectic, they were using music that was relevant to the street scene at the time, like how Hot Stakes has mostly EDM and drum and bass, Underground had a lot of hip hop and a slight amount of rock, Most Wanted is the least eclectic of all, it only has nu metal, hip hop and its variations and an original score to heighten the suspense of the chase sequences; Carbon is the most irrelevant because how incorrectly the OST is programmed hanks to the crunch time. It is possible to make an eclectic soundtrack to fit an theme, like how Horizon is eclectic but all the songs still make sense on an festival setting. You wouldnt see songs too "lyric heavy" for example.

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

​@@lordeilluminatithis guy is right

[@Cuestrupaster]

The final bit about another genres is SO FUCKING TRUE... look at DUSK, one game revived the Boomer Shooter genre, and nowdays its amazing, why? Because one guy listened and did what everyone wanted, and proved that it was what people wanted... saying that the older games are bad, and you're high on nostalgia is just a lazy response...

[@goosemanVEVO]

I think the point is supposed to be that nostalgia might sell games but it doesnt neccesarily make a good game. People will often remember things being better than they actually were due to advancements in certain aspects of game design since then. The original Most Wanted was excellent, I loved it to bits. But if they rereleased it with better visuals now, I can guarentee that it would show its age. And it might not be quite as good as we remember. As rofl said, its not 2005 anymore and we shouldnt pretend that it is. But at the same time, we should probably take more inspiration from older games when it comes to making a game thats more... game. If you get me.

[@goosemanVEVO]

Something else as well is that Im willing to bet most people dont know exactly what they want. They know they want "good" games and remember the older games as being good, which they are. They can recognise a good game when its put in front of them, but if you ask them to tell you why they might not be able to. "The menu books in GT7 are bad? Yeah they are, but why? And what did you like about the older systems?" Is what I might ask them. This is why people jump on hate bandwagons, because other people have already done the thinking for them, and they dont need to understand what makes something bad abd why it was better before.

[@_fudgepop01]

Great take @ 21:50 I never really thought about it like that before. As a game developer/creator I tend to like to have freedom to make my own events and the like, so I kinda love FH’s atmosphere and creativity aspects. HOWEVER, from the perspective of a *player* if the main thing they’re getting the game for is to win and win *fast*, they’ll just squeeze all the possible fun out by optimizing it. Something I never really considered is how easy it is to forget something when you can just… *do it* so casually. If devs give players immediate access to fast hypercars and the like, there is something lost in things like a sense of perspective when it comes to a sense of speed, for example. If you place players in the hypercars right out the gate THEN take that away, they might go from “wow, this is awesome” to “wow this kinda sucks now” and lose motivation to get faster cars or see what new things are there, because that can take hours and they already feel they have experienced the peak. By starting a player in a mid-range vehicle, the lesser speed is less dramatic, so it would feel more manageable to get to the “midpoint” of the game to get that cool fast car WHILE still giving players room to go “ok but what if I can make it FASTER…”

[@Bovium]

Recently I played through an older JRPG/Racing game, and it's so much more fun than any modern NFS or Forza. Not that those games are bad but it's just so unique and has a nostalgic charm.

[@smashkiller64]

Racing Lagoon or ChoroQ?

[@Bovium]

@@smashkiller64 Choroq HG4 specifically, but 1-3 are also great.

[@smashkiller64]

@@Bovium I love the whole dang series! If you get a chance, now that it has a English patch, you should try Racing Lagoon!

[@leirex_1]

Hold up. Call of Duty is a bad example. Since Modern Warfare 2019 people have been complaining that the devs should remove the engagement based match making yet the absolutely refuse to listen. Probably because Activision is forcing them to use it.

[@2ia05_raihanlaurent8]

i think when people wanted new games just like older games, they mean the fundamental of it. Like when people say they want gt8 just like gt4, what they really meant is that the base fundamental of gt4 should be applied to gt8, with some new innovation thrown into it

[@KR000SIS]

I honestly think older racing games are just made with more polish, GRID 1, flat out 2, burnout 3, sega rally revo, motor storm. Ridge racer 7, need for speed underground. All amazing games

[@waste4245]

Hot take: I think the economy in GT7 is perfect. The only thing making it shitty is the events themselves (there just isn't enough of them, there isn't ANY variety and ALL of them are obstacle courses, not races).

[@FANCY_GTA]

you're 100% right. and yes.. why is there no real rock or metal music in a street illegal racing game?

[@i_love_musique333]

Because rock and metal are irrelevant

[@FANCY_GTA]

@@i_love_musique333 go away with your nonsense if you dont like some loud noises grandpa.

[@i_love_musique333]

@@FANCY_GTA I love "loud noises"; you don't know shit about me. Just not corny rock and metal that are basically dead genres now

[@FANCY_GTA]

@@i_love_musique333Do you have some proofs for me? Explain your mind.

[@i_love_musique333]

@@FANCY_GTA Do you hear any new rock or metal music playing on the radio or even existing in mainstream perception ? Literally not at all Hip Hop and Electronic though, that's popular

[@demon-x3250]

At this point, i just want the nostalgic feeling of a game that releases with polish and has enough content at launch. Im sick and tired of racing games that at most times have the bare minimum at launch and just adds content later and god knows how long it will have to take for said game to feel "complete". And i have to agree with Kuru here, the reason we look back at older games IS because they were good games. I really wish developers would take the time to think about why the older games were successful, why did they work? And most importantly, how can they make it better. One example i could give about that is Test drive unlimited, I personally say that TDU 2 was the best racing game Ive ever played (its subjective i know) because of how it nailed what is was trying to do with a few caviat like the physics (which surpisingly at the time i tolerated when i first played it many years ago and still do when i replayed it just recently) and maybe some other stuff that might be a bother to other players. To this end, i really wanted TDU SC to do well because of it, but i dont just want it to feel like TDU 2, I want it to feel and play better than it has ever been. To put it simply, TDU 2 was a good game, but it can be even better and TDU SC has a chance to do just that if they do it right.

[@ukinee8812]

Night Runners, it's the only racing game I'm still waiting and have a lot of hopes for it. The game basically have everything I'm looking for.

[@BlueShift2000]

25 bucks for the F1 is so fucked up. I'm not even making half of that in one hour at my job... I make 6 bucks an hour.

[@MrEujoo]

Look at assassins creed, hopefuly ac mirage is good, but as far as what we saw its a back to the roots of classic ac, thats what i want for nfs

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

uh huh, you want NFS to return to its Sim racing and Supercars roots? no cops and no tuning at all?

[@Secunder]

I played GT6 in 2017, GT4 in 2018 and GT2 in 2023(wrong order I know). And all of them are still awesome games with good progression

[@no-hadaceur]

People now starting leaving the gaming community for now , that not just racing game community doing, it also fps community some people are leaving as well but without describe any word.

[@gifproductions9597]

23:00 nope. Looking at World of Warcraft you shouldn't penalize the player for playing the game. If someone would like to drive 20 nurburgring laps to fully upgrade his car he should be able to do it, BUT he should've gotten more interesting option instead. Let's imagine that you drive nurburgring lap. You get 2000exp. First time you do such event tutorial pops up and says "Drivers gain experience mostly on track, but not only there. Driving in circles all day won't give you the best results. Take a break from this track to reflect on your mistakes and strong sides and come back later for an EXP boost!" Basically, while doing different events (lets say you go nurburgring and then Laguna Seca), while you're driving your crew checks the telemetry data or you watch the replay (off screen) and then after druving let's say 2 different events on different tracks you get 2x exp boost for nurburgring. Hell, you can make it even better if your crew give you some insight like "you could push your car in sector 3" and you get a challange "beat on sector 3 for extra exp".

[@MrJr1976]

GT7 is so close to perfection. It is so close to GT4. If you only play through the story mode, the game surpasses GT4. From handling to customization and more. As a classic GT fan, I was driven to tears by how the main campaign was treated. I finished that game with a sense of accomplishment. Unfortunately, PD shoots themselves in the foot. After the main story, the game is barren. There are no more championships with prize cars, one make races, true endurance events, or other little easter eggs. Always online is just...unnecessary. And finally, the car prices are totally wack. MTX is not an issue. To "fix" GT7, PD needs to add repeatable championships with prize cars that can be sold, one-make races accessed by brand central, drop the online requirement entirely, add true irl endurance races, and heavily adjust car prices and payouts. Note I said "adjust" rather than straight up lower prices or increase payouts. Some races pay out a lot of money due to their difficulty and some cars are expensive. But make them attainable. I have not mentioned anything that would require a new game. This could take 2 months and be an update. Yet it eould propel GT7 to be the best GT of all time. If PD want to be mavericks, they add Sophy alongside b-spec. B-spec would probably pay way less, but would help with obtainig prize cars. Also add a mechanic where the buying and selling of cars can be profitable. So you buy an old beater, fix it up, keep it for a week, and suddenly it's worth 5x what you paid for it. Add a couple generic F1 cars, Indy car, and a few generations of NASCAR to encourage the community. All of these combined woukd make 7 untouchably good. None of this breaks deals with manufacturers, overworks employees, etc. This is all within reason. All this rant goes to show is that developers are shooting themselves and almist intentionally tanking their games. It's obvious to someone who plays through some of the games what makes them so special. This is not a community issue. This is a dev/publisher issue.

[@senorlechuga8832]

You know I'd agree with nostalgia bias being a thing and I guess it is to some extent but I have to say I played Underground 1 and Motorstorm for the first time last year, as well as Wipeout and Ridge Racer (remember those?) some days ago, and honestly they're much better than the AAA racers I've seen recently, and if you wanna play racing games, go indie. All in all, I'd say this is just a product of AAA companies and the gaming industry as a whole. It's kinda the same with other genres. AAA games are just mid

[@blaspereyra9193]

21:54 maybe blocking the event you just played. For example, Rally Capri in GT4 is very OP. An option would be, once you completed the event, block it for 30 or 40 minutes so you play any other race. I think it would incentive variety and if you like certain event, the waiting time wouldn't be so long

[@Secunder]

Yep, that was an L take about OST. I played some pirated MW copy without any music, I thought that was intended, cause game is now serious. Turns out, there is music in MW and its good. And one more thing, as a kid I hate rock sooo much, but still liked it back then in NFS cause "I hate this genre, but it fits so well"

[@FatheredPuma81]

Oh man at least modern NFS games have actual progression. I still remember playing FH4 with my friend for maybe 2 days before he got bored. Turns out just throwing a million credits at the player and telling them "have fun" isn't a good way of making them have fun...

[@VashSpiegel]

Whoever makes a game based on the suggestions of the community, will rake in money and followers respect. It worked for Deadpool.

[@Sniper65615]

Well i hope that Kuru will check on Why Vehicular Combat is underrated or whatever was on the title.

[@K3ntucky123]

Twisted metal really deserved to be mentioned, l love that game

[@RalcolfWolfcoon-cj2zi]

Full Auto, and Crash 'N' Burn are heavily underrated! Kuru needs to check them out!

[@felipeferreira00]

Well, i've seen some people say that NFS HP 2010 and/or Rivals are complete shit, and after playing both of them recently, i can say that both are very fun games. (Yes, i know that some people don't like the weapons, or the fact that Rivals is multiplayer only, but i think that it makes the games more fun and different, and it doesn't invalidade other aspects of the games).

[@RossCuth]

NFS: HP Remastered is honestly some of the most fun i've had playing a video game in a while. I've put over 2000+ into it, cause it's such an easy pick up and play game.

[@Peelster1]

Rivals isn't multiplayer only. You can go into the settings and have a single player lobby. You can also play it without an internet connection.

[@DuduSKD]

The good old' mid 2000's racing games: NFS, TDU, TXR, Automodelista, Burnout, Forza, MC, PGR, Dirt, Flatout, TM and etc ... Some of them are similar, some are fairly unique, but yet in a era which was common to see multiple racing games released in a single year, devs and publishers made products which had something which made them unique among the competition. We saw games which had their own signature, style, physics, mechanics and there you go. We also saw games with bad handling, bad soundtrack, lack of purpose and etc ... - Old NFS had 1/5 of the cars than today's NFS but thanks to Gaming modes like Challenge Series and My Cars, people used all the cars in the majority of the racing modes. (Including traffic and Cop Cars). - Many old racing games had secret cars, tracks, customization and more behind passwords, cheats and even behind some hidden gaming modes requirements. - The usual car handling of all major AAA racing games was something to consider ... even non-racing people could easily learn and adapt in that era. (This applies to the sim racing games too). - While the rubberbanding was something troublesome in some games, it was the mechanic which made some of the racing games a better experience. Since 2010's and the only racing games that i truly enjoyed still FM4, FH1, TDU2, Driveclub and Asseto Corsa. NFSMW Pepega Mod is a more interesting, meaningful and enjoyable experience for me than the last racing games in those 8 years. Also the old racing games seeing a ressurgence since 2020 (in a era which we are usally seeing only 1-3 new racing games per year) thanks to the modding scene is enough to make me believe that old games are beyond the Nostalgia, seeing old beta content restored, newer cars, tracks and etc ... is something good.

[@catsexe6932]

To be honest racing games nowadays is sad..😬. They need more time to make a game and actually take feedback. *For example* i think The crew Motorfest is a good step vs tc2

[@white_mage]

things i hate about modern racing games: 1. lazy handling 2. someone else's life (don't care) 3. 5 minute cinematics about someone else's life (genuinely don't care) 4. easy money (FH5 moment) 5. xp system (its pointless) 6. having to go through half the game to see new race tracks or layouts (boring) 7. the intense focus on the social aspect and being a social media influencer (why???) 8. cellphone/touchscreen interface taking up the entire screen (it belongs to what it was designed for) 9. notifications for everything 10. poor online structure (FH5 caravans for example. they just don't work) 11. online focused gameplay 12. soundtrack composed primarily of whatever sin is most popular nowadays 13. soundtrack not fitting the theme of the game 14. lack of personality (or a theme, like NFS underground or pro street) 15. characters so exagerated or so "evil" that make you want to close the game 16. AI is just a placeholder (make them think, like planning an overtake for the straight or defending on corner entry. give them side mirrors. 17. lack of GT auto treatment (give your starter a break) 18. score-based classes (just no) 19. online progression (makes everyone race only the fastest car) 20. anything stopping you from playing, like the infamous energy bar (refill energy [$9.99]) 21. infinite gears (its stupid) things i like 1. none what i would like 1. lots of varied tracks and types of racing (track, sprint, rally, endurance, free roam, urban layouts, stunts [monster energy/redbull moment], silly stuff like flatout 2, demolition derby [banger racing?], offroad, slower races [like fuel economy rallies. yes, those exist], car meets [basically a chat room]) 2. enough cars, like gt4 but without 10 copies of the same car (a true bruh moment) 3. soundtrack without a single pop song 4. top speed events 5. grippy physics 6. native freecam 7. decent mouse controlls for the camera 8. bikes 9. descriptions for everything 10. a tuning systems that makes sense instead of just raising horsepower like its magic 11. more daily drivers

[@Callmedrain]

Bruh

[@white_mage]

@@Callmedrain updated

[@Austin-l1j]

@11:23 he literally says that he hasn’t played classic need for speeds and then says “this is what I would expect a modern need for speed soundtrack to be” how can he have that opinion if he hasn’t even played the previous games? What is his expectation even based on? He’s just saying things. He said he doesn’t have to have played a previous need for speed game when that’s literally required to have an expectation like that.

[@_remblanc]

He played modern Need for Speed games. He put a lot of hours into Heat.

[@Austin-l1j]

@@_remblancI mean like from the black box era. Playing one need for speed game shouldn’t give him the basis of that expectation.

[@myfunbox355]

I think he just looked up the soundtrack on youtube and listened to it.

[@DigiEvoluido]

People think their opinions matter, that's it. Arrogance. It's so annoying seeing someone that does not know what he's talking about thinking he has to be taken seriously.

[@TheJakeMG]

@@myfunbox355 Pretty much what most of the community did and didn't bother to hear it in-game. I thought I would hate it until I actually played the damn thing

[@Cuestrupaster]

Another one is that so many tiny/little things here and there that they miss, make it bad, and this is what drives me mad, because if it's somehting so small HOW CAN YOU GET THAT WRONG?? Holy fucking shit...

[@mobiuscipher01]

Yeah the music for the game was a bit of a let down which is why I posted that vid back then. My real gripe with the ost was the lack of variety, which isn’t even just an Unbound thing. The driving aspect of the game was fun enough, but the multiplayer (at launch when I played) was just a grind fest, and it was especially annoying when I had to do certain class playlists to unlock cars, but no one ever queued up for those playlists. The story wasn’t that great either, and the way you progressed in the story was janky to say the least. Not to mention, they took a complete step backwards in the cop department from Heat. Heats night and day cycle with the cop elements was pretty good, and just needed a few tweaks here and there. I would’ve liked to have made a full thoughts and discussion video when the game came out, but I’m not great with public speaking so I just posted that short low effort meme to get at least some of the sentiment across. Been playing this series since High Stakes on the ps1, and it’s disappointing to see how so many things were done right in the old games, that the new games have either completely disregarded or just forgotten about

[@astrea555]

You know the Forza car XP thing was already done in Enthusia racing and it worked way better back then already.. A 19 years old game! Really proves the main point of this video. How did the very first try from Konami to make a racing game destroys modern day Forza anyway?

[@ABlockBeats]

KURUUUUUUUUU OMG you're just slapping us with facts. Big W and i definitely agree with your points!!

[@FakeJeep]

10:10 So your comment is invalid from that statement alone. Got it. 10:30 Nope, and you get no room to talk when you haven't played the NEWEST OR THE OLDEST. You can't have an argument when you don't know why WE are pissed off at EA. -Even admits the older music was better... 11:00 Really the music has been on the decline since Undercover? Every game after that has had terrible music, but it has gotten worse and WORSE with each new title.. Unbound... god. 11:10 Again, your argument is invalid. 12:00 Agreed.... Even III, IV and V gave you different flavors. VI introduced licensed music and still had a varied soundtrack.... As you said... if you don't pay attention to politics you don't get to complain or argue about them... 20:28 Essay? Really? Sorry but when I did essays in college I was REQUIRED to do research and not just spout opinion - which is ALL I'm hearing from this guy. "Well I didn't play the game, buuuuuuut....."

[@Midbooze]

Kuru & Roflwaffle collab when

[@flaxslice9857]

I think Dirt Rally took the right step and improved.

[@lucasqrs9096]

the crew 2 was a good example of good music on a modern game

[@bananaslamma35]

This roflwaffle guy seems to just be salty people don't like the modern games and instead want games like the ones that are, by most accounts, the best games in the series' history. Especially with the NFS games, the dude prefaces it by saying "I'm not an NFS player", which just goes to show how horribly off his take on it is. It honestly sounds more like a deliberately incendiary take meant to just drum up controversy to try to get people to pay attention to his video, and I don't know if it'd be more sad for him to be so desperate for attention that he's willing to compromise his video for it, or if it'd be more sad for him to just be genuinely that removed from reality.

[@steel5897]

There's a reason he leaves comments on approval only. And it's funny because he doesn't even defend the modern games, his entire channel is literally dedicated to crapping on GT7, look it up it's hilarious. But he's a pretentious twat that thinks that everyone else's criticisms of GT7 are wrong and that he knows better than everyone else, he does this by strawmanning comments and acting like he's smarter than everyone.

[@i_love_musique333]

​@@steel5897everyone else's criticism of GT7 is bad Imagine repeating the most shallow "mtx bad" ad infinitum and thinking you're doing proper criticism LOL

[@recarsion]

No need to overcomplicate things. All a racing game needs is a fun driving experience, a decent roster of cars and tracks, an AI that can challenge you but which you can beat by playing well, and you've got yourself a good foundation. Then theme it how you want, add a story, whatever, it's all just extras around the point of the game which is racing. As long as the racing is good, and there isn't too much unnecessary stuff distracting you from that, it's a good game. It's not rocket science.

[@yeez13]

Something I feel a lot of critics seem to miss is how games today have this odd propensity to be EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE and never really excel at any one thing, which is why they don’t innovate or “hit the same”. Compared to how games used to be made, there’s very clearly a culture these days of Toxic Positivity where they hype themselves and the media/fanboys/activists on Social Media pretending to care about games; back then, they were very much focused on TRYING TO SELL THE GAME BASED ON THE CONTENT AND HOW IT FEELS TO PLAY! The criticisms of GT4 also feel quite misplaced and somewhat like grasping at straws imo since it truly perfected the FEEL AND THE AESTHETIC that people who played these game were looking for. It’s like he wanted to whine about how an old game that he saw as “basic” is more beloved than these newer ones that added too many BAD GAME DESIGN CHOICES while being “better” in an incredibly shallow way. Plus…GT4, if played on PS2 w/o patches, still stands as a shining example of Poly.Digital’s passion in their craft and a true classic just like GT 1-3 still are! Hell, even GT5 is still seen as a classic since they didn’t go too far into the wrong direction w/ the new gameplay mechanics and kept the feel of what a GT game is! This dude very clearly doesn’t want to acknowledge the merits of these older games while also not playing them since he wants to preserve his weird “the Past is F_sc__t” takes that comes part and parcel with the stupid notion of “Everything is Political” that’s drilled into college students and Video Essay viewers’s heads these days. He needs to stop malding so badly and touch grass…then play the Black Box games to get perspective.

[@nftscreenshotter6436]

Bro really hasn't even played the games he's bashing the fans of, but calls US the biased ones. Zero self-awareness, all credibility out the window. Roflwaffle has a serious case of overthinking on this subject. He honestly just sounds bitter over the praise that the classics get. The old games just did what the new games do, but better. It's not rocket science. Don't blame racing game fans for having standards. The devs were the ones who set those standards in the first place. Blame the devs for placing less priority on the driving model, progression, features, net code, over-all gameplay, menu design, music selection, everything. You're in hard cope mode if you're eating up the new games, and bash the fans of the old games without playing them to see what makes them good. Like, that's just choosing to be ignorant out of spite on his part. The reason old NFS fans can bash the new games is because we've played both the old AND new games. We actually form educated opinions instead of making a salt video crying about something we have no experience with, like roflwaffle here. If you prefer a racing game that prioritizes ways to make you spend more money over the gameplay, you objectively have bad taste. Straight up. He just comes off as someone who reads more comments online than talking to physical people on the subject, because he frames all fans of the old games as being a certain way, and we aren't all like that. You can tell by the way he cherry picks comments to argue against.

[@pp3k3jamail]

If you go to Roflwaffle nostalgia bias video I literally destroyed him in the comment section for trying to basically blame customers, when in reality it's the developers and publishers who are really at fault. I literally destroyed him in that comment section with facts to back it up and examples of game developers just doing stuff stupid stuff, putting in terrible stuff nobody asked them to put in taking away good stuff nobody told them to take away. I went in on Roflwaffle in that comment and I didn't use no profanity or call him any names but I destroyed his behind.

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

​@@pp3k3jamailobjectively have bad taste? isnt taste a preference? man, you managed to say absolutely nothing.

[@nftscreenshotter6436]

@@TheCapitalWanderer Nice attempt at a gotcha while not refuting a single thing I said in my comment. Yes, if you think a game prioritizing microtransactions is better than a game that doesn't, your taste is unquestionably bad to the degree of it practically being objective. Do you prefer a game that's trash but it's really easy to access and use a robust storefront? Than yes, your taste is pretty much objectively bad. The fact that you took a single word usage and dismissed the entire comment tells us all we need to now about your low level of intelligence and critical thinking skills. I'd pay money to see you in a debate class.

[@nftscreenshotter6436]

@@pp3k3jamail I love how roflwaffle attacking you and other people in his comment section literally confirms my theory that he's just being a combative and bitter crybaby about the love that the classics get. Imagine being such a salty man child that you make a video crying about how much love the classics get, then go into the comments of your own video and attack the viewers of it. What a lolcow. Especially with that cringe username he chose for himself.

[@SuddenFool]

Roflwaffle uses so many big words and hypocritical sentences which is infuriating. Examples being: Meaningful, original and innovative. Roflwaffle define those terms and what they mean in this context. Stop leaving it open to any interpretation. This is why you get short messages about why you are wrong. Because it's the easiest way to communicate the message. Hypocricy: Roflwaffle constantly talks about how we can't use old games as a yard stick, and that newer games are not bad. Despite not having played the older titles and just calling it a day. Throughout the whole video, he never defines his terms, never gives examples himself, never suggest better improves and never justifies his position. Yet he will constantly demand others do that when he doesn't agree. At this point i'm listening to Roflwaffle and my response to everything he says is " Okay right DSP we're all wrong and you're always correct. Next slide " The last 3 NFS games i've played ( which would be HEAT, 2015 and MW2012) all of them had awful soundtracks, questionable physics, awful controls that would more or less constantly take away control from the player, to do cool Fast and Furious drifts, making it almost impossible to straighten out the car and get moving fast. Which is the reason i wanna go back to NFSU NFSU2 and NFSMW 2005. Because back then the cars felt "arcadey" through insane grip. But still felt weighty with a grounded driving model requiring you to learn racing lines. Modern day racing games have trash core mechanics. 500 catches to the deal, and severe lack of care. Instead they all feel hollow, synthetic and corporate, like it's just a factor line remaking the same product with a different sticker on the box. But it's the same trash inside. I couldn't disagree more with all of Roflwaffles video than it's all BS. It's pure white noise in terms of critique and it's clear Roflwaffle doesn't want to hear what people are saying, and doesn't feel compelled enough to go back and find out why. Instead just taking path of least resistance and calling it a day. Laziness is what it is.

[@jordyyyboy98]

Horizon is literally the same game every release just a different map and a few tweaks to handling, physics and car list etc. they’re just successful cash grabs

[@bigsmoke5814]

I hate nfs community. remember the time when nfs prostreet came out? they hated it and started bombing it because they tried something new. NOW that game is the best and most loved in the series. Nfs was a series that tried something different in every release. but thanks to aholes who blinded by mw nostalgia, we never got a prosttreet 2, never got a shift 3 and never got a sequel to nfs the run or rivals . those games were hated when they came out. but now they are the most loved. i hope nfs unbound will add to that list too.

[@DoubleTime53]

Well we did kinda sorta maybe got a Shift 3. Project Cars 3 has a lot more in common with a NFS Shift game than a Project Cars game, although not enough in common with either to make a compelling Shift 2 or PCARS2 sequel.

[@Noman1010-nh6uh]

Lol mostwanted is way popular than those what u mentioned I can say over 30+ plus mill know about mostwanted scratch that 50 or 60 even

[@DoubleTime53]

@@Noman1010-nh6uh My god I had a stroke trying to read what you spat on my screen. I don't care how popular Most Wanted is, I was talking about Need for Speed Shift and Project Cars in reference to the original comment.

[@Noman1010-nh6uh]

@@DoubleTime53 I just stating the figures if mostwanted go to ps5 bro. don't get butt hurt because ur fav game ain't popular as mostwanted05 .

[@bigsmoke5814]

@@Noman1010-nh6uh way popular doesn't mean great lmao..

[@94Jyraya]

Sorry, but devs in other genres definitely DON'T get the feedback better than in racing games. The only way you could even say that, is if you only play racing games and nothing else.

[@babab_m]

The gaming industry has evolved and became way more monetised and "efficient" economically, if people decided with their money instead of reddit threads the demand will shift the industry back to how it used to be

[@Unknown-q1v2j]

Man I kinda agree, but still hate racing game community either

[@horizon_angel]

So, I'll try to take a middle ground here, because these 2 peoples actually have quite a strong opinion (and keep it short, I hate typing in essay) Rofl think that most people has been trapped in nostalgia of early 2000's, I can understand that, the year you grew at, would leave the deepest impression to you, shape your taste in everything, and in bad cases, makes you compare everything in today, worse case scenario is closing your mind from today, that's kinda true. Sometimes nostalgia bias could make people comment needlessly bad about a new feature, in this case is racing game genre, without thinking if it could set a new standard, or be it's own strength in a said game Now at the same time, Kuru do make a good point there. People just want GOOD GAME. In past, game's have peaked in terms of fun, have a feature that we love, etc. Then imagine that's being stripped, just for the so-called innovation that's ended up butchered the franchise? Ofc none want that, which is why sometimes people put a baseline standard, "at least make a game as good as this game", or worst case scenario is the literal same game as the successful one, although it can be used to test the water to see what's people actually want, how's the sale compared to freshly new game. And also I kinda agree with Kuru, Rofl shouldn't have use NFS as video comparison, if he never really played it, he's basically missed what's great in these games That said, it's just doesn't mean everything's in the past is the absolute good one, true, sometimes we need to stop living in the past, some Unbound song (sadly it's few), are as decent as Nine Thou (well, that's controversial). But that said, you can't just living in the future without learning from the past (ahem, GT7) Have a good balance of past glory and future's innovation, sometimes we just want good games, with decent innovation and all the features (or most good features) we had in the past. I feels like this is what's lacking on most game's nowadays, in here specifically is racing genre (Never mind about short, it looks like an essay anyway)

[@Ferrari255GTO]

Roflwaffle is underrated

[@rioshama5698]

he is a fool

[@ReiSyre62]

@@rioshama5698 fool on what?

[@jammygamer8961]

@@ReiSyre62 A fool on deez