This is why you don't buy a cheap china cymbal (Meinl vs WHD)

[@OlesMusic]

Some claim the WHD cymbal is upside down. Even if that is the case, the WHD is still very thin compared to the Meinl, and I would still not buy a cheap one cause it will break much faster. Remember to subscribe you cheeky bastards!

[@venteach.6289]

I mean it’s wayyy cheaper than Meinil and any other china cymbals the same size and be easily replaced.For the price it actually sounds good for a cymbal in that price range

[@craigkendall8452]

it's actually the right way up technically, most people just play chinas inverted

[@zoohuman]

Some claim cucumber is pickle.🤔

[@mattbidoli-rr4ff]

I crack a byzance china ever tour.. sucks so much

[@danielschroder6678]

Thin cymbals are made thin for SOUND reasons. You buy them for their sound, and if you do, you shouldn't then complain about the defining feature that makes it sound like it does.

[@jamesdevine02]

Learned something new today: if you set up a china cymbal the wrong way round and hammer on it straight downwards with a stiff wrist, it can break! Thank you!

[@CenobiteBeldar]

I mean you would think a comparison between two products would be treated the same but for some reason one had to be upside down.

[@constantk8780]

​@@CenobiteBeldarthere's a reason. He wanted to bend it.

[@christophcarle]

Yeah, Einstein on the drums.

[@jguerrero7033]

Yup, and if you hit anything too hard it will break - haha

[@georgefromgreece4119]

Lol

[@mariothedevil1537]

Wow! Who would've thought that having your china cymbal the wrong way and hitting it with the force of 1000 suns would break it!

[@charleshaspey3615]

You were hitting the WHD by coming downwards on the upturned edge. You’ll break any thin China cymbal that way.

[@OlesMusic]

It's not upside down.

[@Hobbym3]

@@OlesMusic yes it is.

[@OlesMusic]

@@Hobbym3 Why is the logo on this side, then? There is no logo on the other side.

[@OlesMusic]

@@Hobbym3 I¨ve been living a lie..

[@ari.stoner97]

@@OlesMusic it's a fair mistake, nothing to worry about.

[@dougmasters4561]

For my next trick I will hit a cheap splash cymbal with a hammer, and a nice one with a foam pool toy, to demonstrate just why you should avoid cheap splash cymbals.

[@nelldogcf]

And in this video, OP has a hard time understanding how physics work and instead chooses to blame the cymbal company.

[@drew_on_drums]

This is the drum version of Shannon blaming Marie calendar for her burnt pie

[@layz_gaming_4275]

Why don't you flip the byzance and play it?

[@joeoneill9098]

Both china's sounded great. Now turn all of your cymbals upside down and see how long they last.

[@jimiV66]

Technically, Right Side up for a china is with the edge facing you. Through the years, drummers started playing them UPSIDE DOWN, to prevent breakage. I like playing large china cymbals right side up as a dark crash ride. If you look back at how swing era drummers played chinas, they played them right side up with rivets. What zildjian calls a Swish Cymbal. I used to work for a company that imported Wuhan Cymbals direct from China. I know a thing or two about China Cymbals. My favorite is a Sabian HH

[@toivo.u]

I mean, youre smashing the cheaper one upside down, its no surprise its gonna break.

[@johnrommelaspiras3853]

Fact..👌

[@alessandrocanal6184]

If you hit any cymbal like that, you'll break it

[@nebezpecni]

no lol

[@Panda_man880]

@@nebezpecni Says the guy with broken cymbals.

[@bforts-wm5rg]

@Panda_man880lmao fr

[@jbbnbsmith]

This is a troll, right? Next you should do a video about cheap snare heads and put it on the batter side of the snare to show how easily it breaks.

[@thecrippledrummer]

No. Everyone in the comments think they’re being clever by saying “of course it’ll break, it’s mounted upside down.” It’s actually mounted they way they were designed and they way they were played for decades, until rock players flipped them around so they could bash on them.

[@robinjohnson6301]

@@thecrippledrummer They were played that way for decades on the top of the cymbal, not with the shoulder of the stick aggressively hitting the edge of the cymbal straight down. This might be a particularly thin cymbal but playing any China will break it at least fairly quickly if it's played this way.

[@SmangItDrums]

"Some people claim the WHD cymbal is upside down." That's because it WAS upside-down, especially considering the kind of music that you play. You were essentially striking a cymbal at a vulnerable point, causing the metal to get over-stressed and break. This is common with ANY cymbal that you hit at this angle. "Even if that is the case, the WHD is still very thin compared to the Meinl, and I would still not buy a cheap one cause it will break much faster. Not entirely true. How you mount it (which was wrong) and how you use it matters greatly, and in the case of this china, it probably would've lasted had you mounted it correctly. I'm not even a fan of those "lion-type" chinas ,and this one sounded really good in the mics before it broke.

[@OlesMusic]

I cut out the broken piece, flipped it right side up. It still sounds good.

[@_me_676]

Funnily enough I saw an interview with Bernard Purdie who said Mr Zildjian told him to set up his China cymbal with the bell up (like a ride cymbal) because that was the way it was meant to be played. So technically the creator of this video was playing the WHD the correct side up (but I still wouldn’t use the technique demonstrated haha!)

[@Avedis_]

@@_me_676 true, however in those days they were trap cymbals that weren’t bashed like chinas are today, but even they were mostly destroyed through that use as they were mounted with the edge flair led up for the most part. After that, larger chinas and pangs were used more in the jazz sector. They were ridden and lightly accented with thinner sticks, so it made sense that upright was how they were meant to be used. But these days we use them more like crashes than rides, hence the upside down method that seems to have been adopted in the 60’s to 70’s. Because striking the turned up edge of a China is like hacking into the edge of a crash which is a massive mistake and will lead to cracking and chunks flying off.

[@jareddoran6605]

​@@_me_676I wouldn't trust anything that Zildjian says

[@_me_676]

@@jareddoran6605 tbf I’m not a big Zildjian fan and wouldn’t necessarily trust their word nowadays. I’d like to think though, that the original creator of their cymbals would have known how to play them correctly back in the day haha

[@brawksolid6285]

If you buy a China cymbal that is thin, you can't strike it on the edge in that orientation. It would last a good long time if you flipped it over and hit it on the transition area, ~3 inches in from the edge. Thin cymbals give a particular sound that heavy cymbals cannot but they sacrifice toughness. Think about single ply and double ply drum heads. Would you put a set of thin, sensitive, single ply heads on a drum set, smash the crap out of them playing metal music, and then blame the heads for not being durable? They're not for that.

[@bunnyleaningonasquishedbun5542]

Sure, but in terms of sound: WHD > Meinl

[@ethanrais1977]

Well I’m glad the comments know what there talking about!

[@elcharlyz1]

I have had a 20-inch china wuhan for 7 years and it is in perfect condition and sounds incredible, before this one I had a 18-inch china oriental trash from zildjian that was damaged in less than a year, in this case it does not seem objective to me the comparison.

[@donfurcio4080]

Totally. I had a 16 zildjian china trash and it sounded like shit, now I have a 16 wuhan and I'm really happy with it

[@KingKoalafied]

well ive had 2 wuhans and both broke within hours of owning them. objectively they are pretty shit, if you havent broken it yet, you're either super lucky, lying, or not drumming very often

[@ninebakaryokagami615]

@@KingKoalafiedridiculously overpriced cymbal meatrider

[@AndreySloan_is_a_cnut]

@@KingKoalafied- I have several Wuhans I’ve had for decades and they’re still going strong, and I’m a hard player. Technique matters, and Aquarian cymbal springs also help. Full disclosure, I did break the first one I had in my teens. Remember what I said about technique mattering (something the OP also needs to learn).

[@nazgyah4057]

wow WHD is great sounds better than meinl

[@Hammerdrums]

Wow! no way! doing something completely wrong breaks it! WOW!

[@Avedis_]

Total aggressive hits on the Lion China- 16 Total light hits on the meinl- 6

[@Rockinroomsrob]

Poor technique too

[@Shoe2018]

Its funny because the “cheap” one sounds better

[@Blacknomore]

Meinl sounds better

[@Shoe2018]

@@Blacknomore no way

[@Blacknomore]

@@Shoe2018 bro its 8 month, you still active😇

[@Shoe2018]

@@Blacknomore yup :)

[@Panda_man880]

I'm a meinl guy but I have to agree with you, the meinl sounds chunkier, and the cheap one sounds "swishier" which is more pleasant to my ears.

[@user-il7te1sm5r]

For me the WHD sounds better. This competition is fake of course. Everyone can see it. For a fair competition, use both cymbals the same way. thank you.

[@piero9738]

I kinda like the sound of the “cheap” china

[@Eric_Aerolis]

So one HUGE red flag i see here is that, while you can use a china no matter what way its facing, your striking technique has to change. So when the flange is face down like that you end up needing to strike more of like the body of the china instead of the lip. Using more of the shoulder of your stick like when you crash a ride cymbal. I hope that helps

[@loganrosepiler2005]

Inconsistent comparison. China’s were 2 different ways, and don’t think I didn’t notice you whamming extra hard on the Wuhan 👀

[@OlesMusic]

Yes, I hit extra hard on my brand new cymbal and broke it, because I felt the need to prove a point nobody agrees with me on.....No, I did not. My goodness, some people don't have the mental capacity to think beyond their nose.

[@loganrosepiler2005]

Alright daddy 😩 you win, everyone else is wrong accept you. 🙏🙏 You’re right all the time and everyone else is wrong all the time 😊✨

[@OlesMusic]

@@loganrosepiler2005 Nope, not true.

[@sponge2479]

@@OlesMusic Nobody agrees because you're wrong, it's that simple. Bad angle + stiff wrist + too much power = crack. What a scoop.

[@OlesMusic]

@@sponge2479 I cry.

[@snorgisborg2]

Maybe flip it over?

[@pavloosieniev6750]

video should be renamed "This is why you don't buy a cheap china cymbal is you dunno how to use em right". Good investment bro )))

[@OlesMusic]

Thanks, you cheeky bastard.

[@theonecalledvino8165]

I've played Wuhan chhinas since the 80's They have always sound great and last. But iff you purposely misuse your gear, they will all break

[@ColeAchter]

also you're not supposed to play it like that you're supposed to mount it like you did the meinl and hit it on where it goes up so it dont break any china will break if you mount it like that

[@Mikesdrumchannel-kj8qv]

you lost the internet the day you posted this ;)

[@geadot.-9246]

wtf, who uses a china like that??¿¿¿

[@samilillsunde4575]

If the cymbals "can be played both ways" why not whack the Meinl same way? Perhaps because it would be more likely to break the same way and you don't want to risk a pricy cymbal like that...

[@reiniervanzwieten7092]

to be honest, that weird af bell would mounting it ''the right way up'' very awkward

[@NelsonMontana1234]

They're meant to sound trashy. No sense spending top dollar for that.

[@thingsstuff7561]

Well, it might not have broken if you weren’t playing upside down…

[@WildySouza]

The broken cymbal for the win.

[@rickjones507]

It actually looked like you were trying to crack it. bashing it on the upturned edge with a grip like you're holding a baseball bat. what else did you expect?

[@XenoTravis]

I am surprised you kept this video up. Probably to make them look bad on purpose. I had a 20 inch and 14 inch for a decade and never cracked any. Mainly due to proper use.

[@OlesMusic]

Surprise surprise.

[@bunnyleaningonasquishedbun5542]

Guy won't admit he broke the cymbal on purpose with bad technique and with a force of two Keith Moon's. Hit the meinl with the same force and I bet you it will crack like the WHD did.

[@jasontrent86]

This guy must have missed the lesson on the scientific method. It seems like an unfair comparison having them mounted the opposite direction to one another. This makes quite a difference.

[@mttgilmore5]

The Wuhan still sounds better

[@XiyuYang]

Others have mentioned you mounted the WHD upside down, I'll add that you’re hitting the cymbals at a bad angle, you’ll break any cymbal really fast by hitting like that. Think of your stick as a paint brush and the cymbals as a canvas, brush it, don’t chop it.

[@OlesMusic]

Actually, I don't play drums. I play guitar.

[@DarkOakGenerated]

@@OlesMusicexplains

[@AndreySloan_is_a_cnut]

@@OlesMusic- Cool, now do a video where you play a ‘57 Strat property, then mount a Squire headstock in a vice while you wail on it and tell us the Squire broke because it is cheaply made. What rubbish.

[@MykytaStasevych]

It isn't about the cheap vs expensive. It is about how thin the cymbal is. There are cheap thick cymbals and expensive thin one's. Zildjian A splash for expampl is also thin. You'll break it or any other expensive splash if hitting like that. China's too. Crashes too

[@MMFB0901]

How biased do you want to be? YES.

[@alysmoto318]

Why did you even have that upside down in the first place? You're doing a comparison video but they are not on the same position?

[@marcreyes2764]

"This is why you shouldn't crash your china without flipping it"

[@ccraven95]

This is why you dont listen to people on the internet

[@geronimo33830]

HI , can you try again this cymbal but reverse the side to the good side , all cymbals can be broken if you dont use it correctly ,some drummers broken A custom , or K custom or anothers good cymbals with expensive Price. Thx

[@Zak-yp9jy]

you put the cymbal upside down

[@OlesMusic]

The WHD is not upside down. However, the Meinl can be used both ways.

[@Zak-yp9jy]

@@OlesMusic what the one that got beat up

[@OlesMusic]

@@Zak-yp9jy It's not upside down, check the mounting.

[@Zak-yp9jy]

@@OlesMusic i agree you can put it like that but i think that one is supposed to be the other way round

[@Zak-yp9jy]

@@OlesMusic and also you should cut the cracks off

[@zoohuman]

I think the video should be called this is why you buy a cheap China when you have a good one, they sound good together.

[@contrebombarde6950]

Contrary to the other comments: that IS right side up (the "bell" faces up). Most people mount them upside-down. Which one is "right"? The answer is "Yes."

[@sponge2479]

Bell face up if you wanna ride it, bell face down if you wanna crash it

[@silentskystudios]

I own a relatively cheap Wuhan China cymbal that I've had for probably 25 yrs or more. I bought it way back when Neil Peart was playing Wuhan China cymbals. You know how I've made it last that long? 1. Don't play it upside down. 2. Don't hit it crazy hard. 3. Mount it to your stand using an Aquarian Cymbal Spring (the yellow one).

[@AndreySloan_is_a_cnut]

Bingo! EXACTLY the same story, but I got my first Wuhan 37 years ago - also because I LOVED the sound Peart got out of them. I did break the first one within a month, perhaps due to a manufacturing defect, but probably because I had it poorly mounted. I’ve had the second ever since (and added a couple more) with no issues, and I’m a hard player! The Aquarian spring is the best thing ever for playing inverted China-types!

[@silentskystudios]

@@AndreySloan_is_a_cnut Sadly, I think Aquarian may have stopped producing the cymbal springs! I still own two and will guard them with my life! LOL

[@AndreySloan_is_a_cnut]

@@silentskystudios - Yep, I’ve been trying to find a couple more. They really need to bring those back!

[@JawaiiMusic]

You have it set up wrong, and u were hitting it straight down. That shi happens man.

[@chongzilla]

The comparison would have been better if both were the same setup. Either edge up or edge down. Typically edge up is for lighter jazzier playing and typically edge down is for heavy playing. If you do the opposite breakage can happen with any cymbal. You could cut out the bell and make a cup chime out of the broken one!

[@AlessandroSpenga]

I think the way you hit the cymbal was "at risk". But, anyways, I personally owned wuhan chinas and yes they are pretty fragile and rough, but they sound amazing! I once took it to the studio for a recording session and the engineer couldn't believe it was a sub 100€ cymbal! He said he recorded very expensive chinas that sounded like crap compared to that. It really sits well in the mix for aggressive styles.

[@abettencourtmusic]

The cymbal was already cracked and if you want to hit that hard, than turn it upside down. It’s just a matter of physics: you keep hitting the edge hard like that, it’s going to break 🤷‍♂️

[@ChimichangaGuy]

I have a Wuhan china I bought in 2014 and after countless shows, 2 albums, and countless practice it got it's first Crack 2 years ago. I cut it out and it's still fine

[@nicolasgt1479]

yeah, most china cymbals can go both ways and the sound thins out when upside down. Not better or worse, but it changes the sound a lot.

[@ndrumsbr]

Hello friend! The problem isn't the manufacturer, nor the model or thickness of the cymbal... it's where you're playing with the stick. Manufacturers advise that you should never touch the edge of this type of plate if it is positioned like your WHD... if you position it upside down (i.e. "inverted", the way your WHD is positioned Meinl cymbal), in this case you should never play by hitting the curvature that separates the edge from the rest of the cymbal body, which is why we often see drummers using the china cymbal slightly angled away from the drums. If you position your Meinl plate like you did with the WHD, you will crack it too!

[@bpdrumstudio]

Yeah I don't understand why you flipped it put your other trying to Cymbal the same and see what happens.

[@georgefromgreece4119]

Man everybody's been telling you that: A: it was upside down B: you hit it hard and stiff C: it's thin so it's natural according to A and B to break.

[@robsco1249]

I have whd pro 18" china. Cheap and great sounding...and It last.

[@OlesMusic]

Mine still works after I cut out the cracked area, but it get's bulky and I suspect it won't last very long. How long have you had yours?

[@robsco1249]

@@OlesMusic China with holes generally don't last long...mine, without holes, Is 3/4 years old and Is perfect...I had the 18 crash too, It was fantastic but I broke It after sometime... Turkish cymbals last longer than cymbals made in China... Anyway Meinl Is too priced...you can find the same quality from lots of Turkish companies but with better prices.

[@robsco1249]

Anyway the Whd 18" china I have isn't thin...1340 grams...and still in perfect conditions.

[@tombrenes2411]

STAY AWAY FROM THIN OR MEDIUM THIN CYMBALS OK

[@Catinthehackmatrix]

This is a lesson apparently on what side to use it. The cheap one actually is a China design, but wasn't intentionally made for cymbal stands, So I heard recently. Some drummers say the china made China crashes sound better, take Wuhan western or traditional for instance! I have China made crashes from them, and they haven't cracked in 3 years playing rock mostly!

[@noah._.powell]

Might be a fair video if you had them both positioned the same way.

[@bmingie69]

Horrible technique to prove your narrative.

[@OlesMusic]

I cry

[@shotgunchris]

If you mount it like the Meinl one it wouldn't break that easy. Always the smooth edge up.

[@jaegervand2112]

That WHD IS upside down. Any similar china will brake sooner rather than later when mounted like that - and it´s not stick friendly either. Such a nice sounding cymbal - too bad.

[@w00x360]

Place the cymbal the way in accordance with how you're hitting it. I get that the cheap cymbal is thin but that's how it achieves a decent sound. The way you have the cheap cymbal placed is in accordance with jazz playing, riding the cymbal and playing on the bow, not the edge. The way you're playing it means it should be placed the way your meinl is.

[@Kubakaiser]

Are you rtrd?

[@Panda_man880]

Yes.

[@robd3529]

Probably would’ve made more sense setting up both cymbals the same way and hitting them with the same force if you wanted a truly fair comparison

[@zackattack373]

I've played a meinl 16" trash china facing the proper way up and it bent in less than 50 hits. It was a classics custom dual 16" trash china.

[@Lumerdrums]

yeah, I don't know about this one. Had lots of chinas (meinl, sabian, paiste, wuhan) and my byzance broke in about 1 year. my wuhan broke last week after hitting the shit out of it for 6 years. If the sound fits you don't need to spend 300+ bucks on a meinl. The wuhans totally do the job

[@ButteredToast32]

62 IQ take right here.

[@MiguelAngelPerezRodriguez09]

why not both of them the same way? mmm doubtfull, of course if its cheaper at any point it will break faster but cmon

[@shiningarmor2838]

The WHD sounded better while it lasted

[@KristianThamuz]

I’ve broken expensive Paiste 2002 crashes by hitting more on the edge with ‘brutal’ force. The more you hit it on the edge, the faster they go.

[@dylanpoche1009]

Damn that’s not how u play those

[@markdesolate]

Whd sounds more fierce. Also, please if you compare, make the setup as much the same as possible. Lower variables to zero.

[@hannes1734]

My Meinl Jazz Thin Crash broke after three years aswell. It doesn't matter, cymbals break.

[@joshedwardsOTR]

I don't think this is going like you had planned there bud. It's unfortunately a costly mistake, but I have to agree with everyone else. You played the cheap one the wrong way, bashed it straight on the edge and then were surprised when it broke. Yes cheaper cymbals like that will usually break quicker, however any cymbal will break when you abuse it. I stopped abusing even my cymbals when I had to start paying for them.

[@jamesha175]

aren't they supposed to do that?

[@lorenzodurante1306]

By the way, am I the only one that consider the WHD having a MUUUCH better sound?

[@brendan5222]

Or howbout you don’t turn it upside down

[@HR2635]

have a few WHD that fit perfectly with my K Dark Custom and my other high end cymbals (pro drummer with 40+ years of expereince).. are they the best, nope, are they good, yes some are, are some bad, yes price don t matter... sound does.. and if you buy a paper thins china of any brand, then it WILL break it you hit it like that.

[@ethanrais1977]

Well I’m glad the comments know what there talking about

[@scuff8047]

This is why you set both of them up the same way.😮

[@louisaguns4318]

I'm no drummer, but it seems to me you were hitting the cymbals on the edge which will crack/break any cymbal. Need to be striking the top of the cymbal, not the edge. A drummer taught me that.

[@OlesMusic]

That's complete nonsense.

[@louisaguns4318]

@@OlesMusic Striking a cymbal on the edge (the weakest point) doesn't cause it to crack? Purposely mounting a cymbal upside down and striking on the weakest point and complaining that it is easily damaged is complete nonsense. The cymbal that didn't take damage was mounted properly causing you to strike in on the strongest part.

[@OlesMusic]

​@@louisaguns4318 I tell you what is complete nonsense. Commenting on a video about drum cymbals when you don't play drums. Nobody hits the cymbals on top except jazz players. Every cymbal should easily take hit's on the edge, and by the way, it's not upside down, it plays both ways.

[@louisaguns4318]

@@OlesMusic Just because I don't play drums doesn't mean I don't know anything about them. I do know a bit about metallurgy. In your video, the cymbal you mounted upside down, you purposely bashed the edge (weakest part) of the cymbal with the side of the stick. The other cymbal, mounted properly, you were hitting on the top of the bent rim, literally the strongest part of the cymbal. I'd like to see a follow up comparison video. Take that expensive cymbal, mount it upside down like you did that cheap one and bash it on the edge just like you did that cheap one. It may not cave in like the thinner cymbal but I'd be very surprised if it didn't develop a serious crack.

[@OlesMusic]

@@louisaguns4318 Just stop...

[@coricsbaterista30]

I do own an Arborea Dragon China "Ozone" i hit em' w/ no mercy but still survives for almost 5 years of no mercy beatings and still counting. Not all high end top of the line cymbals/china are durable.

[@stevepompei3694]

I wanna go the the drum store now and ask if i can demo a couple chinas, then just start chopping away endlessly expressionless until it breaks and or they throw me out after paying for it

[@jacobbrint9949]

Both sound great to me

[@Handleoriginal12]

That’s dubious at best. Even the most rudimentary understanding of physics will tell you that how you are hitting the WHD results in more pressure meaning even if the two cymbals were identical, the upturned one would break first.

[@OlesMusic]

Thank you for explaining, nobody else has mentioned that it might be upside down.

[@rayojuanin]

I mean if you play it like a caveman, pretty much any cymbal will break eventually

[@faustomadebr]

I buy cymbals for the sound and use them correctly.

[@BenjisTwoChitz]

I actually really like the WHD's sound lol

[@PhucketThugLife]

the cheap china sounds better than the meinl. breaking it didn't even hurt the sound lol

[@salbausone]

It sounds good it’d probably be amazing for a stack

[@stevearpey9241]

Also. I use Wuhan and have three different ones. None of them has ever broken. This is certainly because I'm not a meathead and I don't play my cymbals upside down.

[@Argentuza]

It sounds damn good though

[@JohnPaul-kr8xq]

It's funny how much this guy disagrees to any comment that makes sense and replies to them with "that doesn't make sense" Just look how many people disagrees. It's clear you're wrong. 🧠 Oops you dropped this

[@OlesMusic]

Thanks

[@loganrosepiler2005]

All he could say 😂 ^^^

[@OlesMusic]

@@loganrosepiler2005 I cry

[@parkerbytnar3034]

Your striking that china directly on the edge, using your stick like an axe. You’ll break any “thin” cymbal with that technique. If your gonna set up your China the traditional way as a swish your supposed to play it as a ride. If you’re gonna invert it then you can strike it, with **glancing** blows. You come down on any cymbal like a lumberjack, no matter the thickness, you will break everything. I have paper thin cymbals I beat the shit out of everyday, play shows with em and really beat the snot out of them. They last for years though. Proper technique and any cymbal will last you a life time.

[@antonmaclean8418]

Upside down and it still sounds better than the expensive cymbal, Wuhan cymbals are cheaper and thin and can last for years, and a lot of drummers with expensive cymbals and endorsements will still use the Wuhan China,I've had one that lasted for years