this MAJOR design flaw could've DESTROYED my drivetrain

This OEM suspension system is so bad, it could literally destroy parts of the drivetrain, so we are going to build a 100% custom from scratch 3-link rear suspension that will help put the power to the ground without axle wrap or wheel hop.
the start to finish build of the COPO truck which inspires the 2nd gen syclone
• Building the ULTIMATE ...
Ruff Stuff Specialties 3-link kit I used
www.ruffstuffs...
Lower link mount from Barnes 4wd
barnes4wd.com/...

[@RobertHolster1]

Hey LT, probably like many others, I've been following you since the LML Duramax you built along with Austin on Power Nation. As an old hack who cut his teeth on the old IDS from the 80s, and again in the 2000s from my military service (6.2 and 6.5s in the HUMVEEs), I've learned a ton from your videos. Your ability to make everything understandable helps an old dog like me, learn new tricks! God Bless- Rob from Pace, Florida.

[@V8RJIM]

For those that don’t know, the pinion angle on the extended cab s10 is horrible. That’s why they typically have the cardan joints. Fixing the pinion angle issue will help eliminate this problem.

[@ItsDaJax]

Ah. Because I'm sitting here like; my s10 Blazer had no issues doing burnouts, just had to ease on it.

[@smithjohn3080]

Agreed. It's loading up and letting go and loading up etc

[@jeffreydurham5342]

I think it's spring wrap. The tire hooks, the springs wrap up as far as they can (as evidenced with the marks on the driveshaft) and then something has to give and it's the tire. It breaks loose, the spring relaxes a little and it starts over.

[@V8RJIM]

@@jeffreydurham5342 sure its going to have spring wrap as well, but it’s been documented on extended cab S10s about poor pinion angle, and it gets even worse when lowered….. this only exhasterbates the problem.

[@francesyoung8910]

I always get excited to watch your new videos LT....the ONLY complaint I have on this one is if you're going to be doing the voice overs like that could you up the volume on your voice or lessen the background noise....that's all I have to nitpick on your clips, other then that man I can't wait for all your videos as they come out love the stuff

[@LawrenceTolman]

Hey, that’s a fair critique, I’ll def adjust the levels better next time. Thanks for watching!

[@GoodForYou4504]

Hey LT, thanks for the great video. As an old school hot rodder it's really interesting that now you can see so much of the build on KZbin. We used to have to buy books and talk to really old school guys and figure all the stuff out. Then order things out of the catalogs and that involved filling out a form and sending out a check. It'll be like 6 to 8 weeks before we get parts. Thank you for the informative videos your doing a great job. This build is going to be fun! 👍

[@alvarezray5302]

LT, I love your channel, and all the wonderful information that you share. I'm glad to see you hopping up an S10, making a Syclone updated model. Being you're wanting to autocross that platform there are two weak/flexible areas of that frame that you may want to plate and reenforce. One of them is right past the cab, around where the leafspring mounts are. The second area is at the beginning of the cab, around the firewall. You can also verify the flex in your video by watching your body panels in your slow motion clip of the axle hop. Keep doing the great work you do!!!

[@plepgeat]

Wait a minute - you're building something that's bomb-proof and overkill? I AM SHOCKED!

[@DannyHanny_]

Between Vice Grip garage's recent video and your video here, I'm learning about four-link and three-link suspensions. Thank you.

[@dugangant]

I always wish your videos were longer. Seems like soon as ya get started it's over but I can never get enough of it. Can't wait for the next video.

[@LawrenceTolman]

I wish I had 2x the time in a week to get more work done

[@chriswise1232]

I did a LS + 3 link w/ watts link on a Ranger. Same challenges. You said you want separation, and you do. That requires >100% AS. IC should be set after corner weighting, with the rest of the vehicle in as close to final form as possible.

[@stevemadak6255]

That suspension youre doing is awesome and for what you plan power wise is perfect. But I have a 96 S-10 SS and it has the anti wheel hop damper. Chevy put a knuckle on the passenger side of the axle tube on top. Theres a damper(looks like a shock but doesnt really move that much) that connects to the knuckle and theres another knuckle forward on the frame. Billstein makes a replacemnt for it too. No wheel hop.

[@brandon.buchanan81]

love the builds and like the fact that you give explanations of why you are doing certain things. keep it up

[@LawrenceTolman]

Thanks, will do!

[@brucethoel3636]

Have you thought about a triangulated set up. Come off each side of the center section and meet at the front mount. The axel would be held square by four bars instead of two with the center mount front bracket.

[@DaInfamous0ne]

Best build on youtube right now 👌🏾 I might be biased tho because I own a 4WD Blazer

[@LawrenceTolman]

Much appreciated!

[@donbooze9379]

My 2.2 5 speed S10 would wheel hop terrible anytime the wheels would spin in the rain I just couldn't bring myself to put traction bars on a 4 clynder truck, so I learned to drive around it and drive very carefully to avoid it. But I have a set of caltracs sitting here ready and in for when I swap my 408 LS into it.

[@xozindustries7451]

I’d be interested to see a back to back panhard bar setup on the auto cross and a watts linkage during this build

[@teaguegearhart9851]

Love this set up. This thing will fly but you won’t have to worry about the build later when you really send it.

[@chriswarren651]

So I just found your page while looking at suburban 2500 exhaust videos. I have a custom suburban Im building slowly so thanks for the tips on spintech muffler

[@dde6127]

Love the narration in the back while working, need to tone the noise a bit and its perfect

[@LawrenceTolman]

Ok thanks!

[@Compactor_08]

Would you gusset or box the frame to prevent twist and spring from torque?

[@mchristr]

LT, a 3-link is a great solution. Good forward bite and good articulation going around corners.

[@kevinkalivoda3442]

Could do the same with a triangulated 4 link and eliminate the need for the pan hard bar.

[@justinpollard1533]

Not my truck i know i know but you should blazer gas tank swap so it has better weight distribution. It sets between the frame rails in the back.

[@LeonardHickey]

could you use a narrow wishbone upper to clear everything? just a thought.

[@No1414body]

I'm building a blazer with a triangulation 4 link. I found a kit off of Amazon returns for 120 bucks. I plan on using Aldan coil overs

[@ItsDaJax]

There used to be a lot of cheap sets during the miniteuckin craze.

[@ryurc3033]

Just be careful, some of those setups were meant for a 120hp Toyota, or Nissan hardbody. Probably fine for a stock blazerJust seen some really small setups that weren't ever intended for power fold up at the strip.

[@No1414body]

@ryurc3033 o am a fabricator so it will be beafy

[@transmissionman9377]

I've wanted to V8 my S-10 five minutes after I bought it new in 98. Very interested in seeing how this takes place, love your work ethic.

[@beetlebuilder5882]

I have built 2 S10s with 350s in them. Never had either one wheel hop. Maybe it was because they weren't extended cab.

[@HIGHPIPE5280]

Thankyou for the video. Helps me out with my 99 chevy s10 Blazer ZR1 drag 4x4

[@LawrenceTolman]

Glad it helped

[@BryanBeast13]

LT, you're an inspiration!!!

[@-Mike-69]

I had a 68 elcamino that had horrible wheel hop. Even when it was in factory form. It had a very anemic 307, factory suspension with a coil spring rear. It was a horrible car to drive. I did a rear section with narrowed rails and rear axle. 4 link suspension with coil overs. I rebuilt the front suspension, new everything, before installing the new engine. I went with a heavily altered small block 327 backed by a powerglide. No idea what the horsepower was. 400 maybe ? With the new suspension setup, even with a narrowed axle, wide tires and a spool, the car drove amazingly well. Before you throw any type of horsepower at a car, you need to make sure the suspension, steering and brakes are capable of handling any new found power. Ive seen so many people throwing lots of power in cars and not taking care of those important things first.

[@kevinschneider6657]

I Like the way you doing Things so much. The posible best way. And its so nice you get more and more time for your Projects. I also think you need Somebody for your videowork, so you could use all your skills and time for your Genius Projects.😅

[@caseygentry698]

It might have been mentioned, but have you thought about a Y link in the top center to give access for the driveshaft?

[@RandomGuyDan]

I wonder if a GMC Envoy/Chevy Trailblazer rear suspension would work. It uses the same setup you are doing, it's readily available in wrecking yards, and offers the G80 locker.

[@ront2106]

Always great info that you get out there and that gives some people the confidence to do it.. Been watching since power nation!!👍

[@joecameron3406]

On my 94 SS 6L I put in a factory hop shock setup works well in a straight line and playing around on time attack course

[@robertsnyder4963]

Hey LT, Wouldn't a watt's link be a better setup for autocross than a panhard bar? I was curious about it back when i had my old 3rd gen firebird, but never got to try it out myself...

[@LawrenceTolman]

the main benefit of a Watts link is there is zero lateral movement of the axle through the suspensions travel. a properly set up panhard bar will have very little side to side movement, especially if it has a longer length. So, would a Watts link be better? Yeah probably, but how much better is hard to say

[@StationroadRatrods]

If my math is correct, a 3 foot long panhard bar that is level at ride height and rotates 15 degrees total (7.5 degrees on jounce and 7.5 on rebound) will move the wheels around 1 3/4” to the left or right depending on which side the bar is mounted. This would only happen during suspension travel so the diff should be centered at full weight ride height so it doesn’t look odd while it’s parked. I used a three foot bar as an example, but he could probably get closer to four feet if he mounted it on the outer end of one frame rail and then had the mount on the diff as close to the backing plate as possible, which would lead to even less deflection.

[@chrisnorway]

@@StationroadRatrods 15 degrees is a lot, and equals a suspension travel of 9.4" with a 36" PHB. I'd be surprised if LT ends up with much more than half of that, given the 4x4 drive train, and intended multi-purpose use. Mainly due to stiffer springs than a pure drag race setup, (my assumption). I get 0.308" sideways travel from 36" x cos (7.5). Not much, less than 5/16". A 3.5 foot bar drops it down to 0.26" or just over 1/4". With less suspension travel, everything looks even better, so a PHB is perfectly fine for this use.

[@seanof30306]

Hey LT, I was wondering; could you have kept the leaf springs and run a torque arm?

[@user-lg6jj6bd5t]

Why panhard bar instead of a watts link?

[@colubrinedeucecreative]

Wait you know that it is recommended to go to a ford 9 inch right? That is just kinda V8 swap 101 in the s10s. I don't think that rear end can handle that kind of power. Quite a lot of info but mainly on facebook is where I have seen it. I just wanted to build a 4cyl so I didn't really like the idea much. Daily driver and gas be expensive. Really cool project and very interesting!

[@blackadder2747]

Is that software you used to measure the geometry custom or something you can buy?

[@andrewstraschinskeii7327]

they quick movement with camera will make you sick if you watch it on a big TV. but I like to see what you come up with

[@hankautomotive]

Where do you get that paper work on building a rear suspension points.

[@sportscarclassics]

Can you replace the 5 speed yoke with a regular yoke. I guess you don't need it in a 4L80 trans.

[@tedjones-ho2zk]

Looked like the frame was flexing also, you should box in the frame.

[@eprofessio]

N95 8511! Cheese us crise.

[@StationroadRatrods]

N95 at a minimum

[@eprofessio]

@@StationroadRatrods yes!!

[@scotthultin7769]

10 👍's up LT thank you for sharing 🤗

[@Metalwolf765]

I went with cognito articulated ladder bars on my truck. They’re really heavy but they work great.

[@derrickk9748]

Ever need anything cnc plasma cut let me know. I can send email if you'd like. Love the videos. Been following for a few years now

[@cmartin0011]

is this why my 2019 toyota tacoma hops why i am trying to claw my way thru snow? i thought it was because my frame wasn't boxed. my brothers colorado didn't hop. tho his didn't make it thru the 3 feet of snow.

[@chadwynia5021]

Need an arc Droid those things are awesome

[@thats10guy91]

Building something similar LT, mines regular cab and sticking with a v6 just my preference. I am considering a truck arm rear suspension. I figured if nascar can make it work on road courses then it should be plenty tunable for a little parking lot racing and cone killer. Any thoughts?

[@JamesDBuzzard]

I had a 2000 4.3 blazer backing the day that shook the same way 🤣 bringing back memories

[@patrickcade658]

Go to Barnes four wheel drive and get the cage to stiffing the axle it give you another 3 to 4 inches of clearance on top of the axle

[@Sparkystacoma]

Xrunner has a turque tube option that's great

[@Severed_Cheese]

Why not try using a zq8 rear end dampener? I understand the 3 link will eventually be better for the ls swap

[@Mechanickirk]

I'm shocked you didn't go full floater for Autocross and hpde.

[@jjman_6920]

I don’t know if you’ve already seen them or not but if your doing custom stuff theirs a company called thorbros and he makes some custom parts for the wishbone and links to make one, I went with ridetech do to simplicity and I’m 2wd

[@jaredwest9161]

What wheels on you're S10? I just acquired a 94 V6 5 speed extended cab, and I really like that look.

[@jaredwest9161]

I found them. They look like factory camaro wheels. I enjoy your videos, keep them coming.

[@hammer300rum8]

Gald you got that shop man. I bet the hoist makes life alot easier

[@jeffreydurham5342]

Is that the stock 10 bolt axle?

[@edgarparrish3457]

LT how much work is required to swap out 4.3 for a 5.3 ls and keep my manual transmission

[@nickcampbell3395]

Google

[@robofuzzwrenches]

There’s some audio issues on this one. The audio completely drops out in places.

[@bigmike7528]

What program did you use to do the math on the 3-link?

[@LawrenceTolman]

It’s a free spreadsheet you can find online on the off road forums. Just google “3 link calculator” or “4 link calculator”

[@rogerbradley7509]

Just wondering with that upgraded power will you have to do any reinforcement on the frame?

[@jeffreydurham5342]

I believe anti-squat means percentage of rise. Please correct me if you KNOW different.

[@Masterplan15]

As soon as I saw the wheel hop part, I knew you were going to install a 3 link.

[@cfmechanic]

How's your shop doing.

[@manzano5620]

Man you need finish one of these projects and take them out to drag and drives!

[@jameshuse838]

Why not a watts link

[@madprops526]

You need an Arcdroid

[@michaelbenoit6761]

The 3 shuck s10 dont have this problem the extreme and some sanoma sls got a tird shuck on top of the diff to stop that

[@ryurc3033]

Please please read before you post... I can hear the alcohol from this comment.

[@michaelbenoit6761]

@@ryurc3033 it is call anti hop shuck 1 got a few s10 in my life who got it but it rare that option

[@michaelbenoit6761]

Do your reserch before right stupid thing that you dont know about it the s10 and sanoma where the only model whit that the 3rd shuck is a 3rd link from the top of the axle to the frain on the right side of the truck

[@michaelbenoit6761]

@@ryurc3033 it is the zq8 suspension plaquage

[@2000S10V6]

This will be one awesome S10!

[@smithjohn3080]

Curious why not 4link it?

[@LawrenceTolman]

Not enough space for two upper links

[@madkidd00000007]

Everyone keep in mind frame flex isn’t automatically a bad thing. A flexing frame isn’t cracking. With an all wheel drive vehicle you’re not launching in a traditional sense either. The front is digging and not the rear solely trying to push the truck. Look up big hp syclones and ls swapped ones. No frame work and they get down

[@Francis_Castiglione]

This would be neat to do with an S10 Extreme.

[@dazaspc]

Going to all the effort of a full rear exit exhaust is nice in a sedan, coupe or wagon especially. With the problems you see ahead with getting it over the rear axle and not lifting the floor of the bed up to much, have you considered installing a single side exit boom tube. In conjunction with a big straight through muffler? In conjunction with the turbo it should keep the noise down and the flow up. At least that way you dont need to compromise to much with the rear suspension. Keep the outlet size down a bit to say 8 "by 1 1/2" and you will still have access to the rails for lifting. I have had side exits just in front of the wheels on a few utes over the years and as long as you get them nearly all the way out there was no vibrations or drone. Just a thought anyway. Cheers

[@jcarrillo4365]

U need a buddy for your videos so u can have someone help. You do a lot by urself. !! But your videos are good !

[@racingdatasystems3708]

Why not use a 9in and be done?

[@LawrenceTolman]

I don’t believe the 9” has an available gear ratio that matches the front 3.73. They do have 3.70 and the 9” is a tough unit though

[@davian157]

LT👌👌👌 CHECK OUT FAST CUT CNC...

[@douglash3129]

Psyclone!!

[@shyecjj]

By the time your done reinforcing everything you will have a half ton.

[@fartzr.schmelli3351]

Dang! I could've warned you about hopping issues. Had a 94 2wd Sonoma years ago that did just what I saw here today. Great idea to ditch the factory stuff. BTW. You may wanna box the frame as well. These trucks are using 1970s technology 😮

[@rickytaylor5076]

Why do people swap to a Ford rear-end, if a factory fit 8 1/2 from a zr2 is strong enough? I think you wouldn't build custom rear suspension for a rear-end that couldn't handle a turbo or supercharged ls v8.

[@LawrenceTolman]

The ford 8.8” rear end is a strong and cheap axle for sure, but the 8.5” 10 bolt is no slouch either. Its the same thing they put into the 1/2 ton Silverado and same thing the UGT uses with its turbo big block

[@V8RJIM]

A 8.8 is far easier to find in a ford explorer than the 8.5 for a S10. That’s why i did it. As far as strength goes they are probably the same.

[@timothycarey3883]

8.8 can also be found with a limited slip as well​@@V8RJIM

[@beardoe6874]

The 8.8 is stronger and for a 3 link you could use an SN197 housing that includes a center link mount. Also the 8.8 is so common that lockers and 31 spline carriers are junkyard parts. Maybe you can say the same thing for an 8.5 but I haven't looked because 8.8s are so easy to find.

[@V8RJIM]

@@beardoe6874 8.5s are not easy to find for a S10.

[@mrmatt7210]

The frame was moving more than a snake on a hot road. Its time to fix the flex. 😊

[@therealboofighter]

I miss the Mustang build.

[@SamOHalloran]

I did the same thing today, forgot to reset my mask and burned my eyeballs!

[@LawrenceTolman]

I saw stars for a few seconds lol

[@SamOHalloran]

@@LawrenceTolman 😵

[@joeala762]

Maybe box the frame as well?? The bed looked like it was hitting the cab in the wheel hop.

[@Carcrafter7165]

I would definitely box the rear frame to at least to center of the cab or the entire frame itself to keep from flexing.

[@steveww07]

only gonna be so many "truck" builds to keep doing over and over again. I hope the shop business is going well for you as YT dwindles.

[@VaanillaGorilla]

Oh nooooo.... Click bait titles. I dig your videos. I stopped following KZbinrs due to this. I want to be supportive of the channel but I don't watch cable because of the scripted drama.

[@roughneck2204]

At least with him, it may be click bait, but it’s an over exaggeration of a real problem

[@ryurc3033]

He redesigned the rear suspension.....that's what the title said. I don't understand. Not like Matt's off-road recovery crap.

[@roughneck2204]

@@ryurc3033 yeah but if he didn’t he’d have smoked that rear end and maybe the frame. The only small point I’m making is at least there’s some truth to it. Though it’s still click bait. Like you have have unsubscribed from so many channels for doing that crap

[@roughneck2204]

@@ryurc3033 thinking about it. My point is not there. Reread it. There was no flaw until he wanted to add power lol

[@beardoe6874]

I'm pretty sure he still has the 4.3 in it and wheelhopped it on stock power.

[@justincaldwell698]

Clickbait again