This Makes No Sense

[@rtyuik7]

by "18+ing" Balatro, merely for HAVING Poker Cards, while allowing ACTUAL GAMBLING/Loot Boxes to continue, is exactly how to get MORE people addicted...they wont even Know that its gambling, because its called something different...all the more reason to get 'suckered' into it...

[@Supermanohman]

Very good point

[@Stratelier]

Unfortunately there's not always a good way to separate the _aesthetic_ of something from the _actual_ thing it resembles. In certain previous generations/cultures even the mere _presence_ of dice or playing cards could be deemed too close to gambling already. As a casual comparison, "alcohol removed" beer/wine drinks are still age-restricted the same as actual alcoholic drinks. Also, intuitively, most of us can't actually speak for the psychology of those with the actual problems/addictions, where even a small slip at the wrong time can cause a large fall off the wagon.

[@someguy4096]

The real Jokers are not in Balatro, but from the Pegi Officials.

[@ghost-type]

Pegi is showing why they're not to be trusted. They must be in EA's pockets.

[@realdoomerhours]

I think they're just stupid tbh. This feels like typical bureaucratic nonsense where everyone knows it makes no sense but they have to follow the guidelines so a game with poker but no gambling is 18+ but games with literal gambling in them get a pass. All these rating boards should be disbanded, they're an archaic waste of time and money.

[@user-kn5ri1et3q]

It is simple: the creator of balatro doesn't have EA Money to buy a low age rating. Was the same ~10 years ago with the usk in germany. some indy devs made a fruit ninja clone, with little comic zombies, for kinect. they got rated 18+ and outed the usk in social media for this "black mail" technique. a day later the social media post was gone and the game got a lower age rating. Capitalism has gone completely nuts.

[@cyxceven]

Yep. Everything has a price. The idea of charging for air doesn't seem so absurdly humorous anymore, rather we are doomed to become the joke.

[@jasontrimmer6422]

Simulated poker or gambling at that matter should be 18+. However, the behavior of EA with loot boxes should be down right illegal. This isn’t even gambling as gambling imposes “chance.” Loot boxes gives nothing to chance but give EA “all the cards.”

[@faceurhell]

Simulating gambling with no money involved should be what we rating. Kids play poker. It should not bump the rating up. Only weirdos think fake gambling matters.

[@faustianblur1798]

PEGI: "I dunno. This Ultimate Team sure looks a lot like gambling." EA: "How would you like to win the Jackpot?" PEGI: "I don't see any gambling here!"

[@th00perman_]

If you try to gamble after playing Balatro, I'm not so sure you will do very well. "Where's all the Jokers?"

[@PlazDreamweaver]

You really dragged this video out to get to 8 minutes. Most of your Spawn Wave Plus content is repeating the same points over and over to get to the monetization threshold.

[@BrD4GOD]

He needs to get more creative and i don't think it's in him. He's gotta pull more content creators and grow the cast ro do this.

[@PlazDreamweaver]

Capitalism as intended; "rules for thee, not for me."

[@SirPsychoMusic]

mario 64 ds port about to be rated M thanks to Luigi's ass

[@douglasbriel6103]

There are too many gambling sites now, including ads for gambling sites on TV. Fantasy Football as well. People could play Balantro, and have gambling on the side through a Discord. Also parents discovering after the fact that their cards have been used. As adults, we sometimes forget how bright and shiny things seem to kids.

[@brianwolf9647]

This will probably affect kids that want to play Belatro on their parental controlled switch. My son had some issues with games that weren’t rated M but they were restricted for some reason due to the blanket settings we had chosen.

[@kevintappminville195]

I have a game on switch that's called "Just Black Jack". It doesn't have fantasy element, it doesn't have cool excentric mechanics, it's just plain gambling... Rated T...

[@lilisaur]

T isn't a PEGI rating - I presume you mean ESRB. Now if every agency had given Balatro an adult rating that would be kind of expected, but PEGI has assigned a much more restrictive rating than the others. ESRB is E 10+ (which basically doesn't change sales at all over E), Japanese CERO is A (its lowest rating), German USK is 12, and Australia's is PG. The complaint is that PEGI has gone at least two steps beyond the others (and in CERO's case, three), which is rare. You usually don't see one ratings agency be that far off from the others, especially after appeal. But PEGI has now planted their flag that any game that teaches gambling mechanics instantly gets an 18. Presumably this means slots, too. Is PEGI telling us that if Nintendo were to submit Super Mario Bros 3 today, they'd automatically get an M rating because of the Toad Houses that feature a slots game mechanic? Because that's what they''ve apparently told localthunk.

[@kevintappminville195]

@@lilisaur Yes, i talked about ESRB, yes i know the difference. No i don't have time to read your whole encyclopedia...

[@lilisaur]

@@kevintappminville195 The video already pointed out two Xbox gambling games with even lower ratings, so the information you provided for a third game not only didn't add anything new, but added confusion over which rating agency is the topic of discussion. I tried to clear it up for other readers. (You're welcome.)

[@kevintappminville195]

@@lilisaur Blablabla bla. Bla, blabla...

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

Imagine a card game that has an 18+ rating that doesn’t actually gamble real money honestly the ratings of games have become a joke.

[@SergKhrypun]

3:14 Gambling is a very scary addiction. Don't wanna be negative Nancy here. Great video! And Happy Holla-days you'all!

[@heartgrenade8359]

With their next update they should add lots of bright exciting colors and fun sounds so then people will know it is definitely safe for kids.

[@HipnotikHylian]

Slow news day huh

[@Timmzy27]

According to PEGIs own rules, it can’t be rated 18+ for gambling because you can’t “cash out” which is why EA FC has a 3+ rating

[@balaam_7087]

SpawnWave channel rated 18+, it’s a gamble whether you’ll get a like or a dislike.

[@SorcererLance]

This is definitely reminding me of the Pokemon games eventually removing casinos and slot machines, otherwise they risk having the ratings being raised... Under the assumption it would promote gambling to children? Which strikes me as odd, because under that reason of thinking, wouldn't Pokemon battles "promote" real-like animal fighting like with dogs and roosters?

[@santelmolafire]

PEGI knows how many parents out there are too rash to find the quality of a game.

[@AnthonySmith-bj9mo]

Marry Christmas Spawn Wave Plus

[@ArthropodSpidey]

I think he's already married so he can't marry an entire holiday. Also, that's weird.

[@mRipX]

best place to learn poker is at coffee shops, you know

[@faceurhell]

The ESA and their rating boards are broken when it comes to gambling. In game gambling for no currency should have no ratings impact; actual gambling like loot boxes in free-to-play games, sports games, skin based games and Call of Duty should mandated those games are 18/21+/Adults Only.

[@alandiegovillalobos]

Game like FC I why I have turned off every possible way my children can buy something in a game. But imagine being a single mom who does not understand well how all this works. Terrible. I have seen cases close up and talked with those children. Like talking to a gambling addicted. 😢

[@daveunknown01]

Lets be real. Parents dont use the rating system. You could rate FC 18+ and itll still be bought for kids worldwide.

[@BrD4GOD]

Do you even have kids?

[@minuspayne]

corporate corruption

[@Eas0511]

What drives me nuts about this whole thing is that you can’t even gamble in game. You can only earn chips until you win or run out of turns, but you can’t take the chips you earned and bet with them. It straight up only has poker hands, not even in-game gambling.

[@Jumpsuperfun]

Fc should get the 18+... It is ridiculous that they get away with it and balatro has to get an 18+ where it should not

[@realdoomerhours]

It's stupid, but with the majority of game sales being digital now (does Balatro even have a physical release?) I doubt this will really impact sales. Age ratings only ever made sense for in-person transactions that could be rejected; the Playstation Store has no idea how old the person buying this game actually is.

[@CerylBruitzman]

Absolutely ridiculous, a game of cards even if it is like poker should not get a 18+ rating unless it contained micro transactions to actually gamble in-game.

[@MrJamess1982]

This is just an example of how the game industry is broken. Allowing themselves to regulate their own products causes these sort of “Integrity” issues. It’s pretty clear those Sports games are way more manipulating then Balatro yet, Balatro is a indie and 2k and other sports games have huge teams behind them with money. So they get away with gambling.

[@BrD4GOD]

Kinda torn on this one. Idk. I think safer is better than not. But idk I'm torn.

[@simon0162]

Guys how do I start my poker match in Vegas with my favorite jokers? Do I have to talk to the dealer?

[@daedalus.R]

Trails from zero and the sequel trails to azure got 18+ beacause it has a casino in game but you can play the game without playing in the casino, it's the same thing with pokemon.

[@Hybrid225]

Pegi doesn’t oversee all the games that are submitted, they only get the developer/ publisher to write about what it has and with that they determine what the age grade is, as admitted it’s a poker like game and Europe gambling laws are 18+, ea fc ‘25 doesn’t downright state there is gambling rather it is renamed so it can be for 3+ also ea fc doesn’t actually teach people how to gamble at most it teaches someone to press a button to get a chance, though roasting EA does seem quite fun

[@Sideqazxsw]

Yes, you can gamble based on poker, but you can technically gamble based on anything. While uncontrolled microtransactions and gacha systems are a problem in videogames, the much bigger problem is the uncontrolled Leninism in the American AAA videogame development offices and as presented in the videogames themselves.

[@Club_Michas]

Top Text: Rerating games for gambling... 🤔 Middle Image: Split image of Monopoly with dice and piles of money on one side, and Uno with a hand of cards on the other. Bottom Text: "Obviously gambling! 🎲🃏💰"

[@feeamerie5011]

There is still a requirement for a credit card to buy ultimate packs which kids accounts cant do surely?

[@PrinsessePeach]

Balatro÷ is 12÷ on Apple Arcade.

[@DoomyRei]

Mtx isnt 18plus

[@Incompetent_Hero]

"Umm... uhh... EU Law is the issue our hands our tied. It's not like we make decisions or anything..."

[@from9902]

What are you blabbering about? The UK has nothing to do with it. PEGI is a European video game content rating system based in Brussels, Belgium.

[@Incompetent_Hero]

​@@from9902 misquoted, typed UK instead of EU.

[@TheAngryRedBird]

It's mostly a country acceptance thing, physical copies already are out Whole thing is bs btw

[@Xray19]

No, no no, you mean surprise mechanics

[@adamtheman17]

this is a joke so this game needs this rating but almost all games that are e for everyone like fortnite has battlepass and no that is not

[@mrmeme2917]

On this Christmas eve i wanna pay tribute to spawn's glasses ! It's been a while since we've seen em 😞

[@Matanumi]

Nahhhhh

[@BrD4GOD]

Crriiinnngggeeee

[@eroctheviking5540]

The esrb is a complete joke. actual gambling with real money? Esrb 8 Cute poker game with no gambling. A/o Are we ever going to get a group of government regulators who actually do their job??

[@Matanumi]

*pegi

[@akl2k7]

This isn't the ESRB

[@catowoo]

both pegi and the esrb are self regulated. its the companies fault

[@madmonkeymcknight7535]

I never played FIFA or EA FC but is it not possible to buy the packs with in-game currency? If that is the case then I don't necessarily think it's gambling. That way we would call games like Yu-gi-oh Master Duel gambling just because you can pay for currency that allows you to obtain cards randomly, but that currency is in-game, so idk. Balatro on the other hand, although it is a complete experience that you can play for 20$, does teach how to play poker. What I am trying to say is that it isn't as straigthforward as some may consider. It is not necessarily correct for EA FC to be rated PEGI 3, but it is not necessarily wrong for Balatro to be rated PEGI 18, at least imo.

[@70smebbin]

Pegi Bundy

[@mmmmigs]

once you start looking at who benefits from how rules are structured things make more sense.

[@Chaoskae]

it does make sensee. Money talks

[@charcoalcharizd]

how dare they try to nerf the true goty

[@SeafoamSmiles]

I think it has less to do with Balatro being based on Poker, and more to do with the act of putting up an ante of (albeit fictional) money. If it was just a card game with no money stakes it might've gotten by with a lower rating, but the fact that it simulates money stakes gambling is where it ran afoul. When it comes to FIFA, the laws in the EU currently are such that loot boxes are still considered just purchases, however there are proposed laws in the works (like the Digital Fairness Act) that could redefine/regulate loot boxes. This subject might not get much coverage in the US, but predatory business practices like loot boxes and intentionally addictive gameplay elements have been a subject of the EU Commission's focus for years now.

[@DoomyRei]

Deal with it

[@MD-se8ft]

Pegi gets pegged by EA

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

I never pegged you as a pegger

[@astr0sauce]

it’s dumb but i doubt it will change. it is indeed poker based and technically a lot of people do gamble at poker. i think i would probably rather have an ugly and unnecessary 18 rating opposed to some kid actually ending up addicted to gambling because of Balatro. it’s a popular game, it could happen.

[@Shadowespeon17]

Morally this doesn't make sense because they should both be 18+ but legally the UK already rejected a bill to define gacha and lootbox as gambling because you're not gaining any monetary value from the items you get despite differing odds and rarities without breaking the game's ToS by selling your account. And yes, Balatro also deserves the PEGI 18 because it still simulates a casino which can still encourage real life gambling or further encourage gambling addicts. Also no, having lootboxes wouldn't theoretically bring the rating down unless they removed all references that you're in a casino, like the simulated betting with the in-game currency.

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

Regarding _all_ of the severe problems in the video game industry, *including micro-transactions,* this is the only solution: *All types of intellectual property (IP) laws must be fully abolished immediately, in any and all jurisdictions worldwide.* All IP laws are extremely unethical for humankind. ‘Against Intellectual Monopoly’ is the most informative book humanity has on the subject now. ‘Against Intellectual Property’ is _another_ incredible essay, but it’s written with right-libertarian rhetoric so if you’re, like me, not right-libertarian you’ll have to read with an open mind and extract the essential info. _Only_ these two texts are the gold standard when it comes to intellectual property.

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

I also have a playlist (not _my_ videos) of *the* best videos on intellectual property laws on my channel for all interested.

[@balaam_7087]

Idk. If I was clever enough to create a beloved IP, like a Mario or a Sonic or something, I sure would want to protect my creation and keep it under my control. I don’t think complete IP law abolishment is the correct solution to the various problems.

[@TheIncredibleJumpman]

Okay, I just read the essay and I'm still not convinced against IP law. Somehow they conveniently omit that the "scarcity" IRT intellectual property comes in the form of a finite amount of money that could be spent on the product. This is never addressed in the entire 70 page essay! In the final analogy concerning Lachman vs Rothbard Burgers, the author cannot possibly see how the trademark infringement could damage Rothbard in anyway despite acknowledging the fake burger is much worse. Very disappointed, thanks for the hour I won't get back 😤

[@stefanspelt3578]

They rated FNAF 4, for 12 and up, Minecraft Nintendo Switch Edition, (Bedrock) Pegi 7 despite that the nether update made that dimension sound more in line with dodongo's cavern from Ocarina of Time.

[@denvernaicker8250]

the ubiquitous psychology of addiction in gambling and micro-transactions is the common thread to be explored, the symbols have changed but the returning behaviour recycled for addiction is the same

[@MedalionDS9]

a surprising lack of Surprise Mechanics

[@TheLastLineLive]

I don’t disagree with their reasoning for the 18+ rating for Balatro, but I strongly disagree with the 3+ for EAFC

[@823jordanr]

Who cares

[@TomoEriGoto]

It’s infuriating, but I bet you anything if all the sports games had playing cards on their screens like Balatro, they’d still be 3+ because “reasons.”

[@Shadowespeon17]

It's not about the cards, it's about the simulated gambling of the in-game currency and that the setting of the game is literally in a casino. Balatro wouldn't be 18 without the casino setting. That's just UK laws as it stands.

[@Mclucasrv]

this is just the talk because of balatro because if it was any other game it would be ignored and even so since when rating boards gives a fuck about people opinions.

[@Hexaroot785]

they should then rate all sports 18+ sports betting ads are everywhere in the nfl

[@thebabyant]

First and MVG is bald

[@smgofdvld]

Mbg is bald yeah

[@kdkseven]

Poker is not a game of chance.

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

🎄🌨️☃️

[@ComicCrossing]

It does make sense though. They explained their position well enough. Balatro is literally teaching people skills they can use in actual gambling. There is no skill involved in opening a loot box. So you arent teaching tjem anything other than random luck

[@Matanumi]

Still bull

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

*Jon:* It’s called *series,* not intellectual properties (nor IPs). You’ve made this mistake _many,_ many times before. Correct yourself. Then correct all others when they make this mistake. IPs are monopolies created from intellectual property laws. Laws which should be fully abolished as soon as humanly possible. IP laws are incredibly unethical. All the best resources are listed in another comment from me here. Your curiosity will get you the info, follow it.

[@AldrianCG]

You only keep writing this because you do not own one.

[@elvisg2410]

Balatro translates to real poker and gambling. Buying packs with random players is like buying packs of stickers, which kids already do.

[@billcook4768]

Good to see this channel being used.

[@dartfeld7545]

I agree that everything with monetized gambling/loot should be 18+, including every single sports game that include them. Beyond that, it should be illegal to sell 18+ games to minors.

[@Hybrid225]

Pegi only has the rating as a buying guide, in places that uses it, it is illegal for someone under that age tag to be sold it not played by it

[@siredwardThe3rd]

This kind of reminds me of those basketball trading cards (and of course all kinds of trading cards) back in the day when they were all the rage cause they of course are also just form of dressed up gambling and the idea of loot boxes are the same concept which are just more accessible version of trading cards.

[@epicshelterstudio2986]

So why are Gacha games rated so low? Genshin is rated for pegi 12.

[@MrDSkinny]

Unfortunately I think pity systems are the thing that saves them. I play genshin and its most definitely gambling thats just my take.

[@Shadowespeon17]

Because the premium currency can be spent on items other than the Gacha and possibly because you're guaranteed a 5-star every 90 plays so you're eventually winning something from the highest rarity. Also possibly because you can earn the "Premium" currency without real money. Those are probably the modern staples to legally avoid the gambling definition in most countries still.

[@thezx5795]

oh well

[@Bryito]

See, the problem is loot boxes and micro transactions are still a major problem, but the WOKE garbage that AAA games are now pushing out is a bigger issue that requires more attention, sadly.

[@Mclucasrv]

yeah but I think its becaus they know that one can affect something by complaining while this here would never change companies will still push microtransactions,people will continue to buy it and ratings never give 2 fucks about people complaining since the start.

[@Bryito]

@Mclucasrv if we can get all the gamers to do what we're doing now with the WOKE garbage we could as well change these issues as well once again, gamers must speak with their wallets as a gamer, I do not purchase any games with microtransactions or loot boxes or even life service

[@RoronoaLou]

Name some examples of this woke stuff

[@Bryito]

@RoronoaLou currently, to my knowledge, the WOKE games that have failed are. 1. Dust born. 2. Concord. 3. There's that Star Wars game I can't remember its name, sorry😅 4. Dragon age the Vanguard. 5. Technically, not out yet but gamers are battling against the new assassin's creed game. Those are the ones that come to my mind right now.

[@wordsdistorted]

@@Bryito Who cares if a game asks if you are a boy or a girl or a npc is black. Yall have too much time and attention for shit that does not matter in the slightest. If you think pronoun choice is a bigger issue than getting nickle and dimed by mtx and paradox dlc models, idk what to say. I would argue gaming has an even bigger issue with most games being boring retreads of other games. But nah, culture war bs is what yall waste your time on.

[@sagarpatney181]

1st

[@thingsiplay]

Balatros entire game concept and depiction is about gambling. That's the difference to FIFA. One does not even have to play ultimate mode or buy anything there. This is not my definition. Balatro for adults only, while FIFA and co gets away with it for children is unacceptable.

[@Hexaroot785]

poker was not started with gambling

[@Shadowespeon17]

​@@Hexaroot785that doesn't matter if the game simulates gambling and is set in a Casino-like environment, including betting with the in-game currency. Balatro rightfully deserves its 18 rating but EAFC will continue as PEGI 3 for as long as it's not legally defined as gambling at this time.

[@thingsiplay]

@@Hexaroot785 ??? ok?

[@ehenningsen]

I play poker all the time without gambling. So it should be treated like an EA game

[@thingsiplay]

Meanwhile the game "NG Slots Casino" has a rating of 16 by Pegi. Game has realistic casino depiction, unlike Balatros fantasy, and you can buy stuff for real money.

[@khronick3596]

First

[@Felipe-pn1mn]

the pubs want monetize soooooo bad...... my goy nomination cost millions :{

[@marioex497]

Just because it doesn’t look like gambling doesn’t mean it isn’t or won’t teach kids to gamble. Coffezilla just released a series talking about this issue but in respect to CSGO