this mechanic isn't fun - Rivals of Aether 2

[@BioBirb]

For the gamers, this is about floorhug option selecting and not CC/FH while moving/after hit once. Forbidden SSDI when committed to another action seems like the best solution to still allow aggressive fh's/amsah teching/slideoffs without making it a +1 to every option. None of those words are in the bible Edit: I included them in the video, but if you want some other perspectives on floorhugging or a deeper understanding, here's some resources. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIqmcoFuiphqndE kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXqQZGyfhtqMnaM

[@RiahGreen]

wtf is forbidden SSDI???

[@aiacfrosti1772]

@@RiahGreen mistyped "forbidding"

[@Scorpio3002]

@@aiacfrosti1772 nope, "forbidden sdi" is a known mechanic in melee, although I don't understand it well enough to explain it. I also don't understand how it translates to rivals 2's SSDI mechanic. But it wasn't a typo; "Forbidden SSDI" is also alluded to in the video.

[@charl2182]

well have you ever considered how the floor feels?? maybe the floor *needs* a hug, come on.

[@SaoAhmet]

LMAOO

[@Opixer]

I now know why I've had so many instances of "How did I get punished so quickly after doing that?"

[@RitualNeo]

i actually had trouble understanding the difference between CC and floor hugging before this video

[@HoshiNoKaabii]

Etalus with armor would be a statue with floorhugging and CC in Rivals 2.

[@jcast1749]

holy SHIT i didnt even consider this LMAO

[@thankfullydaniel4212]

Give me my bear back

[@bigkebizino8970]

Good to see u man Also yes that would be mad

[@alexmuir7505]

The fact that floor hugging can be done while you are inactionable during the lag of an attack is what really sets it apart from other defensive options. Unlike rolls, spot dodge or parry which require a correct guess of when your opponent will attack during neutral, FH doesn't require that commitment or correct decision making. The depth of fighting games comes from the decision making between a wide array of options, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. This forces both players to be constantly adapting to their opponent and switching between all of their options to try a get a leg up over them. However, in the case of FH, there aren't any other options to choose between, since FH is the only thing you can do when inactionable. It becomes a choice of do nothing and get punished by whatever the opponent chooses, or floor hug and invalidate a huge number of your opponents options. Even if you mistime your FH you're in no worse a position than if you didn't try for it. It's a no brainer that you'll try for a floor hug, and a no brainer that your opponent will just stick to options that beat floor hugging, which makes the gameplay stale and limiting. The only argument you could make is that FH is an execution test. You could bank on your opponent missing the timing of their FH and choose to go for a better combo starter that loses to FH, but I just don't think the risk/reward is worth it. The FH timing doesn't seem terribly strict, and the fact that it completely swings things from being hit to hitting your opponent is extremely strong. One of the strengths of platform fighters imo is the degree of counterplay and control that the defending player has with DI, tech options, etc, but those options just reduce the damage you take or at best return you to neutral. Not sure exactly what should be done, but some changes definitely should be made.

[@darkcry241]

In a game with DI, spot dodges, techs, parries, and also just movement in general thanks to it being a platform fighter, and Crouch Canceling too, Floorhugging doesn't need to exist. Even if we lessen how useful floor hugging is, it'll always just be a superior option to the others, unless the others just GIVE you a free kill, which isn't balanced. It should just honestly be removed. Crouch Canceling is meant to be the base version of it, does a lot of similar things, but has a drawback. Floor Hugging doesn't need to exist due to CCing existing in general.

[@lordmew5]

I love it when people who have never played melee or PM just lie. Floor hugging makes for terrible DI, meaning that if you floor hug, especially during an inactionable state and the other player accounts for that, then you almost certainly will die because of bad DI.

[@alexmuir7505]

@lordmew5 fair enough, that's my bad for forgetting to talk about DI. I do wonder if the risk reward is still too skewed, particularly at lower percents when DIing poorly won't result in you being killed. Not to mention that FH and CC seem to work well into mid percentages in Rivals 2 rather than just lower percents in Melee. It just feels like it's been put into rivals because it's in melee without accounting for the differences between the games

[@Scorpio3002]

The answer is simple: make sure that an attack deals the full hitstun, even if the opponent lands on the ground in the middle of the stun animation. In fact, this is SO simple that it's what all the later smash games did, which is what made most dragdown combos possible. This would still allow for Amsah techs and true CC, but remove most of the incentive for floorhugs. We could even compromise by preserving air-to-ground hitstun but eliminating ground-to-air hitstun, which would enable slideoff reversals.

[@akkorokamui8319]

@@lordmew5 It's still an obvious option select at every percent but kill percent, and you shouldn't conflate Melee and Rivals 2 like they have the same engine and balancing. Just because it may be balanced in melee doesn't necessarily make its implementation in Rivals2 good by default.

[@Zetta330]

my jaw DROPPED after seeing loxodont roll full screen holy shit Very good breakdown of what's going on here, hopefully it brings more discussion into what can be done about this mechanic.

[@Endotron25YT]

My jaw hit the table bro. (Also, when are you gonna make another video about duels of fortune?🤨)

[@lordmew5]

There is an obvious answer people who don't melee and other good smash games shouldn't play you people are trying to ruin the game

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

@@lordmew5 you don't even play RoA2 what are you doing

[@meep7605]

@@lordmew5 Rivals 2 is 100% made for competitive players in mind, even more than Rivals 1 was, because Rivals 2 is now going straight for the Melee players who would never switch to Rivals 1 due to the artstyle, lack of shields and grabs, etc. In fact, I have no idea what your comment is even about, maybe try to make your point a little clearer.

[@issumatar]

Watch hyperflames video for a good explanation that doesn’t blow this out of proportion

[@Galespark234]

The Sf6 example actually sent me lmao

[@Siffa_]

The more accurate sf6 example would be trying to confirm into a laggy special after landing a minus on hit jab there’s a reason you don’t get full combos off of every hit in every good fighting game…

[@samsinks9591]

@@Siffa_plus/minus usually refers to it being on block, which floorhugging isn't

[@limerick9146]

​@@Siffa_ Not every hit has to kill but if you land a hit you should have the advantage especially if it was a punish

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

@@Siffa_ sf6 does not have any minus-on-hit jabs. If you can find one, let me know.

[@Siffa_]

​@@user-et3xn2jm1u i mispoke a bit, minus jabs DO exist, but sf6 only has +0 jabs at worst. Regardless, you are only allowed to do limited things off of jabs, even on hit, and those are scaled much heavier; another balancing factor. It's hard to make a true comparison when it's a different FG genre and the example shown originally was dumb anyway.

[@Flakeslayer]

Thanks for summarzing what's wrong with that mechanic: "It isn't fun". That's honestly the only argument that's needed. I thought it was a bug because of how stupid it looks ingame, before I talked with some closed beta players and they explained that it's intended.

[@thatswhatisaidbunnybread.5317]

Rock paper scissor but if your scissors miss, you can switch to paper and win.

[@huyphan7825]

When you design Rock-Paper-Scissors but you forget to program in Paper

[@Ed_AlphA]

When you add the well by accident that can only be beat by paper but wins over rock and scissors

[@FireThePyroYT]

Good explanation, i was having a lot of trouble dealing with floorhugging and its good to know that im not just terrible for thinking its a little overtuned

[@TWGatorade]

wonder who this guy is...

[@cptnqusr]

finally, we can now bully ranked on release. thank you biobirb for unleashing pandora's box onto launch online play

[@curse5697]

CC is fine, it's a powerful tech to counter your opponent but leaving you clearly open to reaction since you're evidently crouching to their attacks, while also taking a chunk of damage in return. But Floor hugging is basically CC on crack, without even making it obvious that you're gonna do it, and i personally think it's TOO much, should get erased from the game or harshly nerfed.

[@curse5697]

I think we're being babies by complaining for CC and floorhugging. Melee players have been developing meta and counterplay for 20 years and have no problem with an even more powerful version of those techs. Particularly in this game CC is just fine and already has counterplay, floorhugging is something i could see becoming a problem in the future, but at the same time I still have to see someone use it, like, ever💀, so let's just wait and see how the meta develops and stop dooming on a game that JUST came out.

[@rubix0110]

The game would be better without CC/floorhugging. If you want a way to deal with aerial spam then the game already has a parry button. If you guess wrong or miss parry then get punished; that’s fighting games. CC and floor hugging’s only risk is percent and considering how much percent you can take and still do this it’s basically no risk at all. There’s no decision making on the defender’s part. On the attacker’s part, you should be rewarded for getting a hit in neutral. Not every hit should give you a crazy amount of plus frames, but I can’t think of a single modern fighting game where it isn’t at least your turn after getting a non projectile or non poke hit in. Just because this is the case for Smash doesn’t mean it’s a good concept. After CC became prevalent in Melee I started to have a lot less fun with it, but understood it as a necessary evil as it helped some matchups that felt impossible (Falcon vs Sheik) and Melee is not getting patched, but Rivals doesn’t have that problem. At this point there’s no MU that feels unwinnable without CC. The parry button is a good defensive mechanic already, you can’t get shield poked, and wave dash OoS is pretty good at creating space. There’s plenty of defensive options already. It’s mechanics like these that put off my FGC friends from playing this game. Rivals 2 is doing a lot to help this like no chain grabs and a better ledge, but getting nothing off of the majority of your attacks cuz of one mechanic is still off putting. This matters cuz I feel like this could be the game to help bridge FGC and platform fighter communities. No Nintendo, game is easy to access, and there’s no glitchy jank to be had, but I can see CC and its philosophy to be off putting; even some smashers don’t like it.

[@timm8o475]

as a non-fighting game player whose friends REALLY wanted me to try the game, I'm seeing less and less reason to.

[@Jiggonomics]

I'm a huge smash fan, and love the idea of Rivals even more, and I'm not a fan at all of floor hugging. The version where you actually have to crouch before being hit, makes total sense, but being able to react after you've been hit turning into an uno reverse card for hitting your opponent successfully makes me feel like viable gameplay options will be very limited at top level play.

[@TurtleKnite]

​@@timm8o475so like, this is a thing that matters at higher levels of play. Its a timed input to floorhug like this so you do need to 1:know to do it and 2:execute properly. Its not terribly hard but at low levels and casual play, it doesnt come up very often, so dont let this stop you from playing with your friends or just queueing online. I think the game is a lot of fun for casual competition but once people are good enough that they can start ignoring 70% of your neutral options, the fun factor goes downhill.

[@Dracosiz]

@@timm8o475 don't be a bitch, if you are a non-fighting game player, then these small technicalities are of no relevance to you. Stop trying to rationalize away your friends' suggestions.

[@frogchip6484]

As a melee player who has played rivals and felt how brutal the floorhugging is in this game, I think it mainly comes down to moves simply not being strong enough. After around 30-40%, for example in a fox ditto, you can't just throw out garbage then floorhug your way out of these scenarios because you won't get a punish against the vast majority of his moveset (exemptions are jabs and ftilt if you perfectly time it) CC and options like it in Melee work really well because while you ARE locked out of some moves before around 30-40% it's not nearly as much of a hindrance, and can test both players' resolve to not be lazy and just rely on hitting their opponent and not having a plan for what will happen after they land said hit (best example is foxes doing rising shorthop nairs before 50-60%) Looking at the gameplay you showed and my own experience, Rivals could really use more hitstun on moves that aren't late hits, its kinda sad seeing visually strong moves do absolutely nothing in the face of a floorhug. I'm also just a big proponent of more hitstun in the game in general because I love melee's combo game and the game so far has felt like playing brawl, you get your two hits then its back to neutral

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

Either hitstun or endlag, or both. Some moves feel like your character has to eat a Snickers before they're ready to play again. Even without floorhugging, there are moves that are punishable on hit, which never feels right in any game.

[@originalph00tbag]

The moves would be stronger if there were no floorhugging.

[@SupreMamaco]

​@@user-et3xn2jm1u I feel like this is a thing on plat fighters in general, that depending on the move you hit, you will get punished for hitting it because they simply don't suffer enough hitstun/knockback and get punished for winning a neutral interaction. Although some can argue that this also happens in traditional FGs if you land hits that can't be combo'd outta them.

[@lordmew5]

Well, I'm not really sure if it's moves not being strong enough or melee's particular top and high tiers being on the lighter side so many people actually forget how good floor hugging and crouch canceling are in melee. Floor hugging is a very integral part of luigi, bowser, ice climbers, Zelda, and samus's gameplay, and there are even more who where it's a very good part of the gameplan. This is why filthy Doc kids should be banned or worse. They have ruined melee and platform fighting games with misguided understanding of melee.

[@frogchip6484]

@@lordmew5 Amen brother, also the slippi kids are better at that bollocks anyways

[@PocoQuinn]

There are so many strong defensive options in this game. Shields, DI, parrying, MOVEMENT, you can even easily invincible ledgedash That makes it even more confusing that the devs haven't just drawn a line and said "you got hit, suffer the consequences"

[@Ridlay_]

Thank you, I have not been able to understand floorhugging after taking a break from playing the betas, and finally I get a good explanation. And wow…yeah I hate that. That needs to go, suddenly I feel much less interested if that’s what it takes to “””get better”””

[@lordmew5]

Good stay out, you're a degenerate who likes bad games we don't want you

[@haruga]

different genre but it feels like cancel sliding in warzone, like no I'll play an fps that doesn't have obnoxious movement

[@Jiggonomics]

I agree but I would also like to state that if Aether Studios can find a way to successfully remove it, or nerf it severely, I think the game would hands down best the best plat fighter

[@lFede64l]

Indie platfighters will NEVER beat the "Melee clone" allegations I swear.

[@Verdigri]

Rivals of Aether isn't a Melee clone at all. It's a great game and I hope people discovering the series with Rivals 2 will give RoA a try

[@BrownieEXE]

​@@Verdigrior go to a non sweaty game

[@PurposeDriven7_]

@@BrownieEXEthen go play Multiversus

[@ToyotaGuy442]

As a competitive smash player with many years of experience and grinding under my belt, THANK YOU for this video. My friend and I have so many hours in this game already and we both could tell off the rip something felt off. So many instances of "how did you get out of that combo at that %?" "how did you punish that?!". Thank you for clarifying! haha. Hope the devs fix this soon because this game is sweet.

[@montruay]

Soo... "get punished for punish a swift, and there's a posibility that your punish of the punish get punished"

[@CHAOKOCartoons]

I do feel like this may be part of why i haven't been enjoying the experience of 2 as much as 1. I feel like I'm encouraged and rewarded for playing a bit lamer. Rivals 2 has a lot of neat and cool options and the potential for some really cool plays, but i never felt the need or desire to ever go for them when sticking close to the ground was so much safer and yielded more success. I knew a bout crouch canceling from 1, but i haven't been paying too close of attention to developing tech to help test the raw experience of going in from Rivals 1, and I can at least say that while i wasn't aware of the term I DID notice the ability to punish people for just hitting me on the ground. With wall jumping not being nearly as prevalent as well, I never really feel the urge to risk going offstage unless im well in the lead. While i do like more grounded gameplay in general, this is a bit much and almost cheapens the tight neutral of grounded play in a platform fighter.

[@khariperkins4243]

R 2 brought so much defense into the game.

[@WrathOfTheHydra]

This was an incredibly succinct video. I deliberately avoided watching any videos about Rivals 2 strategies because I wanted to get a vanilla feel for the game so I could compare with context. I have been trying to figure out exactly why it seemed like others were just not getting lambasted as hard as I was, and this is absolutely 90% of the reason. Going back in for a couple matches after this, I can see where this is getting me, which has been helpful. Idk how much I'll enjoy this game with this mechanic, but I'm now at least aware of it.

[@lilacbee3374]

Such a good video on helping me understand the main pain point I have had with the game! Keep it up!

[@sazking6106]

i guarantee this mechanic has little to nothing to do with why you're getting stomped

[@rabidcopy3052]

This video suddenly makes my brief time with the demo make more sense as to what was happening when I'd get punished for trying to punish something.

[@cmattss4]

Very informative! I knew I hated floorhugging since the first beta I played, but I also had no idea it was this strong until I started seeing it in tournaments.

[@MrDuckyWucky]

After trying the demo, I feel hesitant in getting the game. The SF6 perfectly shows how Floor hugging ruins the conventional rock paper scissors dynamic that I enjoy engaging with.

[@Chr1sT0fu]

I think the assertion/claim that any move that is beaten by floorhug is just illegal or useless to use is inaccurate/disingenuous. Keep in mind that with recent changes, you have to SSDI down on command/reaction to floorhug, you can't just buffer it. So you can still play neutral and mixups in a way where you can get openings with floorhuggable attacks because you conditioned your opponent to think they don't need to floorhug at that exact moment. This kind of counterplay has existed for years in Melee. I think we're too quick to say a mechanic is bad and chalk it up to "only this can be done about it" or "moves that are beat by it are now illegal". The game isn't even out yet, counterplay takes a long time to develop.

[@qwertyugzb]

We've been discussing the merits and demerits of floorhug for years, and while I see that it can enable certain moves to be really strong while having balanced use (like jabs), I think the trade-offs are not worth it. no one will ever say that it's intuitive to press down when getting hit to cancel weak knockback or do the same thing with shield and down to tech medium knockback. Even in melee this is probably the most controversial mechanic

[@williamw8590]

I totally understand the "counterplay takes a long time to develop" argument when it comes to things like character balance, but this is a core mechanic of the game. If I was a new player getting dumpstered by floorhugging, I would be more likely to quit the game than to try and develop counterplay. I feel like it and L Cancelling are the 2 melee mechanics that just don't make sense to put into any other game, the only reason anyone would ever think to put floorhugging in intentionally is because it was in melee

[@Chr1sT0fu]

@@williamw8590 it being a "core mechanic of the game" does not make it exempt from the truth that counterplay takes a long time to develop. that concept doesn't only apply to character balance lmfao, it applies to all mechanics in the game. you also saying that the "only reason anyone would ever think to put floorhugging in is because it was in melee" is also completely ignorant lol. respectfully, everything you just said is proving my point - you implying that it being a "core mechanic" makes it exempt from counterplay taking long, and saying that it's only here bc of Melee, just very clearly shows to me you are talking without understanding the nuance of floorhugging and what counterplay DOES and COULD exist. and that's fine, i'm not judging you for not understanding it yet. but when it comes to fighting games - these games are fucking difficult. and just because as a newer or lower level player you don't understand how certain things work, or those things don't "feel good" to you yet, doesn't mean you should just dismiss it as unintuitive, unnecessary, or straight up a bad mechanic. you gotta put in the work and hours to slowly better understand how things work and see if you can find counterplay. honestly, this applies to to everyone who does not have high level competitive experience in a game where floorhugging exists.

[@BrooklynSkateUSA]

​@@Chr1sT0funo one in platform fighter history is okay with getting punished for winning the neutral and getting a hit. This is an objectively bad mechanic.

[@zachstarattack7320]

​@@BrooklynSkateUSAno its not. ur allowed to be minus on hit

[@andrewgonzalez6623]

They need to remove CC and floor hugging all together. It was what made melee feel unbearable from a competitive player perspective and made the game feel one dimensional.

[@flipperjr.3822]

ok but sliding across the entire stage is kinda funny looking

[@BioBirb]

When you right you right

[@kidcandi4088]

Literally the worst feature melee as to offer, something so broken u cannot play the game if u you don't spam it 24/7 Only truth in this video

[@ned_arb]

Great vid, these situations are quite literally the only time rivals 2 didnt feel like rivals to me, the uncanny valley of platfighter moments

[@Lerkero]

2:39 - that elephant was movin!

[@runeblade6596]

This sums up how I used to feel about cc and asdi down in melee but now I disagree after getting more used to it. In theory it vastly limits what openings and punishes you can go for but in practice there's many reasons someone would be hitting any other direction but down in a whole bunch of situations in even just one match. Grabs being the strongest counterplay to it is interesting because otherwise grab whiffs are slow and make most grab attempts very risky but when you can tell someone is looking to floorhug they're usually a lot easier to grab. It doesn't become a solely winning option but rather it shifts the weight of rps interactions such that less safe options become situationally very valuable. Maybe in rivals it could be tweaked like the tech momentum carrying over being fixed, but as a concept it adds more to neutral than what it takes from it.

[@alextheshrimp.]

I like your take on this topic.

[@Gemini_Hero]

What I'm not understanding is, why shouldn't grab be a generally risky option? It tends to lead to some of the highest reward depending on situation (b/f throw at certain percents being free kills if you land them, most throws start combos, chain grabs exist etc.) It just seems unnecessary to have a mechanic that promotes grab from being "A good but risky option to mix into your offense" to "the only thing you can rely on working until ~50%". Grabs tend to be at their healthiest in fighting games when they're used sparingly, mostly to catch people blocking too much.

[@alextheshrimp.]

@@runeblade6596 from all the tournament gameplay I’ve watched, I barely see FH being used. I just don’t really see it as a huge problem , and if it becomes one, I think the devs would fix it bc they actually came about competitive players

[@runeblade6596]

@@Gemini_Hero it's still just as risky to whiff a grab, but the fact that grabs are good makes floor hugging risky too since you're less mobile while fishing for it. So now it loops back to encouraging you to stay mobile to avoid getting grabbed

[@Gemini_Hero]

@@runeblade6596 For fishing for floor hugs in neutral, I think that's a pretty reasonable take. I think the main thing being called out in the video is being able to floorhug in response to whiffing a move and getting punished, leading to a reversal state even after you made a large error in offense. That, to me, is less creating interesting counterplay and more arbitrarily limiting gameplay options.

[@haroldgarner8390]

Omg so I was not tripping when I was like “your at 60 and I just hit you with a high knock back move. Why did you go nowhere and hit me?????”

[@Astar72439]

That prob was rollback if you used a high knockback move at 60. This vid blows it way out of proportion, without floorhugging every single character in the game is capable of doing an infinite or true combining you till over 100

[@SickGamer45327]

yeah, to be fair the official ressources are incomplete on that. But that sounds more like a crouch cancel example to be honest. I can't think of high knockback moves that can be floorhuugged at 60.

[@eriodi]

I really hope they do something about this, it is the SINGLE thing that feels outright BAD in this game. I love it but MAN is this annoying 😭😭

[@lordmew5]

Except it doesn't feel bad you're just mad and used to terrible platform fighting games

[@LinguineRamone]

​@@lordmew5 it just feels bad to them, no need to insult them

[@kazman115]

@@lordmew5I checked your acc and you have a really good rap playlist but bro you gotta chill people just don’t like the mechanic 😭

[@ajlaremont]

@@lordmew5 Imagine chilling for an awful game mechanic that doesnt benefit anyone

[@YogurtGaming69]

I kind of agree. Crouch cancel makes the game fun, but not when it removes 90% of moves in the game.

[@YogurtGaming69]

Whoever liked my comment you're shit at the game. Get good. Every single move that you can CC you can no LONGER cc after a certain percent. It just prevents people from spamming weak attacks at low %.

[@Lamentationsofapoory]

This makes perfect sense. I always knew that low percent gameplay in rivals 2 felt like a complete mess. I, like many others, though it was CC. I still think CC should be toned down (you should not be able to CC three strongs IN A ROW imo) but Floor hugging absolutely makes the early percent game a complete mess. Especially with shields as good as they are.

[@ilikepizza107]

Look. I'm a P+ player who came from ult (I have never played Melee, started P+ about three years ago) where there's little to no CC/floorhugging. I used to feel a similar way about CC which is much stronger in PM. People are making the mistake of thinking CC/floorhugging is some god option that just disables half the moves in the game instead of something you're able to interact with in neutral. It is not a laundry list of moves you aren't allowed to use if they lose to ASDI down, not at all. What you're not considering is your opponent has an option after they need to throw out from wherever their place is after they take the attack. For example I've seen people regularly using sweetspot Zetter FAir on grounded opponents to counter CC/ASDI down even though it doesn't actually knock them out of CC, but it has enough pushback that it prevents the Zetter from getting hit by nearly every option they can use directly out of CC in the game. So if, say, an Orcane is mashing a dtilt and I hit their CC with a Zetter FAir, I can respond to that and counter their dtilt by jumping over it and dtilting. I just punished them for trying to CC without using a move that directly "beats" it, and they got punished extra hard because they took extra damage from that interaction since you still take damage while CCing. This is just one example of many many interactions in the game, of course the Orcane can do something else and that's where the layers of mixup end up building. This pushback interaction is extremely relevant because it also rewards using CC offensively. For example if you hard read somebody will use a fadeback aerial on your approach, you can overextend a run past them, crouch directly under them, and get rewarded with a CC grab into a big punish for your commitment. Overly safe aerials are a big problem in plat fighters (Ult especially I know has this issue) and CC helps mitigate that with an interactive mechanic, because its not like running up to someone and crouching without throwing out attacks is safe, it could easily backfire into you getting grabbed or hit with a meteor if your opponent anticipates you're going to run up on them. Finally there are two big differences in Rivals 2 that make CC weaker than in Melee/PM that aren't mentioned. The first is that there are much more moves that can just beat CC/ASDI down at 0 because in PM/Melee there is a flat 4 frames of hitstun (empty landing lag), but in Rivals it scales with the attack used, meaning stronger attacks will be able to break it more easily. ASDI down also cannot be buffered meaning your opponent has to react, you can abuse this to bait reactions and bad DI out of people. I completely understand people's frustration because I agree it’s not a super intuitive mechanic to learn. I think having good in-game tutorials in the future would help a ton. But I think its super interesting and fun to play with and around, and I think most people will come around to it with enough time in the game.

[@RandomDude647]

You should make a video that shows the counterplay in action because I don't fully understand what you're describing in your comment

[@ApolloSol]

Yes please make a video on this!

[@domilink9747]

You are referring a lot to CC but floorhugging is still a god option to do cause you mitigate most moves in any situation.

[@rylanlunnon9640]

​@@RandomDude647Great video by hyper flame on the subject.

[@petrikillos]

@@rylanlunnon9640 You could have just answered him. The video literally talks about the same counterplays this one does, on top of spacing correctly.

[@TKWolf]

Thanks so much for making this! I've been trying to articulate why this mechanic feels so awful, and this sums it all up, while teaching me details I had wrong, and showing more insanely broken uses. I can't believe you can use this ON HIT, as if there's any sanity to that design. Anyone saying "BUT YOU CAN DI WRONG" like... ok... but that's just DI being DI. For a mostly free and overwhelmingly powerful option, it's a super tilted risk/reward ratio. I also loathe that you can basically just hold down for CC and option select. I'll still argue that it's incredibly easy to use with near-0 comitment, and low risk. If these were niche techs that were sometimes useful, it would be a reward for identifying it in just the right situation. But as is, it's so overwhelming that you HAVE to always take it into account on offense and defense. And it makes so many of the wonderful aspects of the game feel terrible, or outright useless in many situations.

[@miamesa8652]

I learnt about this a couple of days ago when I kept being unable to followup my tilts and jab on clairen. And after some testing got VERY pissed because I was starting too realize, against a good player it means most of clairen's kit CANNOT actually chain into anything if they're FHing or CCing. Unironically terrible, I really hope that gets changed.

[@SAClassHunterZero]

Came back to recomment… stay strong brother, they’re coming after you now. Even Leffen lol. Tbh, I like my fighting games where if you get hit, you take your friggin’ lumps. Too many fighting games have “stop hitting me” mechanics that shut down offense, promote camping/turtling, and make me genuinely question why their supporters are playing fighting games at all. The “melee has it” argument doesn’t hold water either, as that game was never designed for competitive play. Just because people are used to something doesn’t mean it’s a good mechanic. Look at it this way: Fighting games have to prioritize offense. The game ends when one player is hit enough times. Prioritizing defense accomplishes nothing, since defense delays that inevitable end.

[@SickGamer45327]

play smash 64 then! pretty much every platform fighter has defensive options after getting hit (smash 64 too, but it is very limited)

[@SAClassHunterZero]

@@SickGamer45327 never heard that one before, lol. Let me explain that strawman for you… prioritizing offense over defense does not mean “get rid of defensive options”. It means ensuring defensive options bend and conform to offensive play, as opposed to the opposite. Repeat: There is nothing wrong with defense, it’s part of the attack > defend > grab triad.

[@jonasjohnson5383]

yeah call me crazy but being true punished when I successfully land a hit on my opponent is never fun, for any reason it almost like thats the entire principle of fighting games as a whole: land a hit and get rewarded this is why i hate both crouch cancelling and floor hugging

[@germangonzalez4347]

In b4 counters exist

[@jonasjohnson5383]

@@germangonzalez4347 I mean i also dont like counters conceptually, but those at least can be fun to bait out and get a really strong hit I can't bait out crouch cancelling to punish them in endlag, you know lol

[@GibbleFlarskin]

I think this video hits the nail on the head for why floor hugging is really unfun from the perspective of the attacker, but I also wanna add that I think it's really not that fun for the floorhugger as much as it isn't fun for the floorhuggee. While getting hit near the ground, there's basically no decision making taking place when deciding to floorhug - low or high percent, it never seems bad to attempt to floorhug a move even if the opponent counters with a spike or throw. To add that input along with the already present mindgames when getting hit (throw tech, DI, SDI) is just cumbersome, especially when the other defensive options I feel have more interactive and fun counterplay for both the attacker and defender by themselves. I don't wanna have to think about tapping down along with every other system that's present in the game at every present moment that I'm around the opponent. (Also, could definitely be wrong about the things above and please contest or give any other insights you'd like. I'm not an expert here) Edit: Having heard some more opinions on twitter in the past couple days following this video, I think i can understand why this mechanic exists a little more. I still think most of what I said about floorhug still rings true to me, but I'm gonna file my complaint as a semi skill issue since I think I'm just too used to the way that rivals 1 handles defense and getting hit. Interested to see how the rivals team develops this mechanic

[@josiejams9018]

I think this is very true. Any time games require you to just do an input regardless of a situation 'just because its good' always feels bad. I have played melee for a really really really long time, and I am super used to L-Cancelling things so it has never bothered me, but I still think its a pointless mechanic because like you said, its one more thing to do that really has no purpose or thought behind it, its just sheerly an extra input. To summarize; inputs that are not decisions are boring.

[@broman55gaming]

I'd been running into this since the betas and had a hard time placing the issue exactly, feeling like I was getting punished for hitting moves, it was very frustrating, but yeah this is exactly it. Great video, I hope they address this.

[@roofon]

Great video, I honestly didn't realize just how strong floor hugging was despite doing it all the time. I have definitely felt like in this game playing as kragg for example I need to press the kragg rivals of aether 2 button (Down air) or just grab my opponent. In a game where shield grabbing is also already pretty strong I felt like i would just either fish for grab or dair. Alternatively, my opponent and I can play the fun game where we down tilt each other for 2 years before one of us wins.

[@bluhandjejahd]

I hadn't seen a biobirb video in a while. Youve really improved at video production since then, this was super well put together

[@dmoj680]

As a RoA1 player, when I first played RoA2, I was wondering why a lot of my combo starters were working despite me hitting the opponent. Transitioning between games was hard, and I think this video highlights the problem well. Thanks :)

[@Concrete21]

I was trying to figure out why I kept getting punished for landing hits. I thought it was just clairens non tipper moves were that bad. Thanks for enlightening me.

[@frothyslider253]

This was an issue during the beta weekends but the devs seemed to brush it off. Not surprised it hasn’t changed

[@Noahtheorigianl]

“I would also think floorhugging is broken if I didn’t have thousands of hours in this game” lollll

[@Miimbambop]

You know what would make everyone stop floor hugging? If it had a chance to trip you every time you did it

[@mightybear5441]

They say Loxodont is still tech rolling across the entire fire capital to this day. The future is saved...

[@briannorris8356]

I agree. I think for me the most annoying part of FH is that it makes me feel like that even though I won neutral by getting through all the disjoint and zoning to finally get the hit, I'm losing because I didn't use a grab or dair to punish. It's not a fun mechanic that adds to the game but rather it feels like it takes away from making build a bear combos. I'm not sure on how to fix it beyond just get rid of it. It could very well just be a problem of just learning to deal with it if you want to play this game, but I'm not sure what the longevity will be with new players that are not coming from Melee/PM.

[@almazingsk8er]

This is purely anecdotal and self important but floor hugging is the reason I won’t be buying this game. I would like to play the game on a slightly more than casual level and this mechanic simply doesn’t sound fun to learn or work around. Sure it adds some mechanical depth and it means that in neutral you have to think even one step further but it just… feels really bad. From a game design perspective it removes a sense of reward from one player to give an (arguably unwarranted) sense of “escape” to another player and to me that’s hard to justify. With the game having so many other defensive/movement options it doesn’t make sense imo

[@bumibomber]

Nobody will do this to you on a lower rank and nobody will really do this to you a lot generally, I was around bottom platinum and people barely did this at all. I think floor hugging should be removed but the video vastly over exaggerated how bad it is in actual gameplay because it's basically having to time a down input in a 1-3 frame window on reaction to getting hit (you cannot buffer it).

[@almazingsk8er]

@@bumibomber that may be true now but as time goes on the tech itself will become more widely adopted by lower level players. If the tech is powerful and rewarding enough, the only thing gating usage is time

[@ob1jakeobi416]

it’s pretty ironic because in their efforts to make the game more accessible by adding generous buffer systems, they made the game less accessible because it causes tech like floor hugging to be required to know to improve due to how easy it is to pull of with the current system. this is by far my favorite fighting game ever so far so i have hopes they will find a way to rework it for release

[@punkypony5165]

There's no need to rework it. This video was made in bad faith.

[@PrimalZeno]

​@@punkypony5165 Why? Can you explain?

[@azizkash286]

aint no casual gona play this game. I can't see it surviving for a long time tbh

[@PixlKraken]

Thanks for making this video, it perfectly illustrates what I hate about FH/CC. I do feel like both need to go from RoA2, being rewarded so heavily for being hit is ludicrous is are only present because of Melee. I see people refer to CC as a defensive mechanic, but honestly I can't bring myself to call it such a thing when proper defensive mechanics already exist in Shield, Parry, character specific counters/armour and movement. There's something wrong when getting hit is outright better than defending against your opponent, and turns the game into hold down and mash or grab. I've been advocating for the removal of these mechanics since fairly early in the betas, and even with nerfs, it's proven that they just do not work or fit in this game at all. I can actually see why these mechanics would exist for projectiles, and they aren't so bad in RoA1, since it makes you think about how to properly use projectiles at certain distances whilst also not punishing you for using them at all. But as it stands in RoA2, FH/CC only serve to make the game a mash-fest and really hold it back from being the premiere competitive platform fighter. If CC "needs" to stay, one suggestion I'd seen in the feedback pages was that CC should send you further away from the opponent, which I actually don't mind so much since you take some damage but at least reset to neutral, you're still being punished somewhat for being hit and not rewarded with a full combo / kill confirm. But even with this change, it needs to stop working VERY early in a stock, like 10% - 15% early so that it still can't be abused so heavily. RoA2 is SO close to being truly amazing, I really hope these mechanics are gone soon so it can live up to its potential.

[@alistofrent8113]

This! I really didn't enjoy fighting a lot of the zoners in RoA1 and while I'm new to shields and grabs, I can kinda understand how they'll make fighting characters like Absa more pleasant once they're in the game, and it makes fighting Fleet tolerable. But fighting up close just feels bad with these things. There was another vid I saw that mentioned RoA2 had more of an early game...game...than RoA1, cause in 1 if you got gently caressed by your opponent you could go from 0-50 and beyond very easily, whereas that's less true in 2. I can def get that and would like to see it happen, but CC/FH isn't the way. CC/FH isn't really a defensive 'choice' you make with risk-reward like shielding and parry are - it's just there and you either use it or you don't. I haven't run into it much in casual queue and I thank HECK for that. I'm still reeling from the one time on Fleet I shot an enemy, used fair, and they got hit with all the nado hits, and shielded through the entire thing and then whacked me back. CC/FH feels excessive, and dare I say shields could be made a tad weaker...Though the latter, I will freely admit, really could just be me needing to git gud.

[@HiddenBAH]

All this time, I thought you had to time the shield press to get the floorhug tech roll. Thank you for validating my opinion. They gotta tone cc and floorhug way down

[@gediboy5695]

I kind of love cc’ing in melee cause I like the idea of trading health of reversals, but I kind of agree with you, floor hugging might be the step too far… I didn’t know about it thank you for the intel 🙏

[@arabmunny]

floor hugging is far more broken in melee and people just grab because that’s the counterplay. get good.

[@gediboy5695]

@@arabmunny I definitely suck at melee thanks for the reminder 🙏

[@DaisiesTC]

​@@arabmunny??? It is not more broken in melee lmfao. Did you even watch the video? Floorhugging is substantially weaker in melee.

[@arabmunny]

@@DaisiesTC ur fucking clueless lol, u can floorhug in melee up to 200%. u can’t do that in this game under any circumstances at all. u simply don’t know what ur talking about.

[@arabmunny]

@@DaisiesTC go ahead and reply to my other comment where i systematically break down ur points and explain to u why ur bad at the game. the game isn’t even out yet u actual fucking clown lmfaoo who are u to decide there’s no counterplay?

[@Atlasamsung]

People don’t realize how much of a problem this is, and a problem not exclusive to rivals 2, characters live up to stupidly high percents, there is no killing with stray hits, only kill confirms, grabs aren’t as good of a punish option as they are in other plat fighters, and it baffles me that they attempted to nerf this mechanic since the beta but they haven’t been able to balance it, it either needs to be removed or reworked, in melee crouch canceling in itself is a mechanic that single handedly nerfs a majority of the roster, and a big reason why low and mid tiers struggle in general, and top tiers are good because they have ways to invalidate crouch canceling in their kits, I know rivals and melee are very different games, but crouch canceling and itself was a bad mechanic in melee that I wished was removed or reworked, since being able to just invalidate weak moves by just holding down is already stupid enough, and with floor hugging ON TOP of that it becomes exactly what is said in the video, unfun

[@rubiconcrossing4480]

FLOORHUGGING ROCKS! I love downholding.

[@BasementMinions]

Fascinating stuff as a casual player! Hope this gets resolved soon :)

[@Hippienolic2]

Everyone gets Bowser armor

[@sd042441]

Based video, super concise and well put together and I'm totally not being biased in how I dislike how CC and floorhugging are handled in the game alike ;) In all seriousness, I'm glad you took this topic to task especially in asking "Who is this for?", because who IS this for? Especially knowing how detailed in breakdown they get in patch notes about how floorhugging is affected each patch, who is this mechanic meant to assist and why is it there? Or is it just an unfortunate necessary evil for having ASDI (or SSDI, I forget which is the right term here) in the game in the first place and they're just trying to mitigate its effects? Either way, it's not something I welcome, nor something that many others welcome as well. Appreciate the video Bio

[@ofischial]

I like having a defensive option in floor hugging but I do think it needs a nerf to only work at really low percents

[@khariperkins4243]

it's needs some sort of downside for it's use.

[@xaius4348]

Rivals 1 was neat because it removed some defensive options like shielding and ledgegrabbing, but replaced them with new defensive options. Rivals 2 added all of those back in, plus more. Even stuff like ledge specials can be considered a defensive option. There is too much.

[@Maxel53]

This was actually amazing editing, can't even imagine how long it took to get all of those clips

[@AnnCatsanndra]

So basically I need to tilt the stick down way more often.

[@31emanual]

Honestly as someone coming from rivals 1 with little experience from melee or pm, I feel as if they overcorrected from having too few defensive options to too many. Alot of strong moves already cancel into shield in a short ammount of time, while CC can invalidate some moves at low percents or if the move has a fixed knockback. Personally I would just remove floor hugging and make it impossible to ssdi into a grounded state(or remove ssd :P). I also find crouch canceling a bit annoying but it's manageable if you're mindful.

[@Thiccolas3245]

i thought this was just bugged ccing but wow seeing how its a different thin thats interesting

[@CharlonTank]

As a Melee player, my first try of RoA2 ever, I used a pro controller and managed to Amsah tech a forward smash at a high percent on the ledge and survived. I was like, 'OMG, what muscle memory!' 🤣

[@Marisu_Prada]

And I was wondering why nobody parried in this game, this is *so much better* than that in every way possible, it really belittles every other defensive option out there

[@hirshel820]

this has been an ongoing issue through every alpha test, did not enjoy them

[@nickziegler1904]

Floorhuggung has a very "l-cancel" type of feel to me. At high levels of play its non-optional and it creates a near insurmountable gap of skill between those who can and cannot do it. Crouch canceling is actually a kinda nice mechanic. You trade some health and you have to preempt the opponents move by crouching but in return you can get a giant punish. Thats cool as hell. If floorhugging only worked in situations you could have crouch canceled then it would be fine, but he fact that you can use floorhugging to literally flip a punish situation is actually ridiculous.

[@arabmunny]

my guy u literally just pick a direction with ur control stick. u can beat every option this guy talks about in this video by just grabbing. stop pressing random buttons in neutral and adapt to ur opponent. if they are cc/floor hugging then grab them to get a free punish. i don’t see how this possibly makes a skill gap other than for people who actually suck at fighting games.

[@nickziegler1904]

@@arabmunny the problem is that pressing random buttons in neutral is SAFE with floorhugging. Getting a whiff punish is actually adapting to your opponent, it's like the exact opposite of just throwing shit out in neutral. I like Crouch canceling, I think it should stay. It's floorhugging that needs to go.

[@DaisiesTC]

I don't think it's comparable to l-cancelling outside of it being mandatory. L cancelling opens up more options for everyone and makes the game more fun. Floorhugging does literally the opposite.

[@DaisiesTC]

​@arabmunny My brother in christ, grab being the only counter is literally the issue lmfao. The game just boils down to spamming floorhug and grabs at a high level. The issue is floorhugging has no mechanical depth or nuance, you can completely whiff and instead of getting punished for whiffng, you can just floorhug and reset neutral/get advantage for free. If it functioned the way it does in melee it wouldn't be a problem.

[@arabmunny]

@@DaisiesTC u obviously don’t play melee because it does not work like that at all. it’s far more broken. mix up ur timing, use a move that spikes, fucking grab combo, there is plenty counterplay if ur actually good at adapting. u can’t buffer the input, they have to time the floorhug. if u mix ur timing by literally even 2 frames the floorhug doesn’t work. get good, stop spamming punishable moves in neutral. if ur opponent sees u grabbing them constantly to beat their floorhug and they KEEP floor hugging then it’s not high level gameplay. sorry to tell u.

[@pinkiedash3225]

mmm! reversal central! it's the same thing in melee tbh

[@Heowolf]

It's not the same thing, It does have crouch cancelling as well though. The main difference is this is done in reaction to getting hit, not as a read/safety option before getting hit. It's due to how the engine makes wavedashing/wavelanding easier, the ASDI on hit just makes you cling like a short mostly downward waveland but without the lag of jumpsquat/airdodge landing.

[@animekammii9908]

I simply think cc and floor hugging just shouldn’t exist in the place

[@JetAce124]

Thank you for articulating my main issue with the game in its current state. I honestly thought it was happening because the moves were very different from rivals 1

[@zeefacterfafter3]

All of this would be solved if Dan would just add Wectoring into the game.

[@stevec9118]

I was trying to understand why I preferred the first game - this is it.

[@DabuzSSB]

Me complaining about this every 5 minutes on my stream LOL

[@WIImotionmasher]

this is likely why most combo starters send directly upward, it would cancel out the little SSDI teleport distance

[@funstorm1789]

man im so old and jaded by the fact ive done this for 15 years that I cant see your point. even if it wasn't there you'd still get farmed. you would go to the next thing that (you think)keeps you from winning. most players who played smash for two decades instantly know how to beat CC the moment they see you do it.

[@wilburcobb8990]

this isn't CC, old man

[@funstorm1789]

your youtuber's punish was terrible lol

[@Heowolf]

This is more like reactive CC, you do it after you've gotten hit, the engine treats it like a waveland basically.

[@Briggann]

Showing Ludwig, when you talk about people who just now heard about the game is crazy, with his Company being the publisher of Rivals 2

[@Christian6557]

he was probably using lud as an example of rivals going mainstream cuz obvi ludwig has a huge audience and brings a lot of new eyes onto rivals

[@Briggann]

@@Christian6557 Yeah probably, it was just funny to me in the moment

[@dadhats]

as a melee player, just take it out lol it's never been a fun mechanic idk why they included it

[@PliantLizard1]

It’s really sad that this video is convincing so many people who are new to the game that this is problematic before the game even releases. Seriously, this is not even close to the full story, it’s an extreme exaggeration using the most extreme examples possible while also downplaying the counterplay options. Oh you tried to floorhug my jabs but I actually fsmashed instead? Now you did the worst possible di at 40% and you’re dead. Floorhug and tech an aerial at 80% so you don’t go offstage? Now I charge a smash attack and kill you for free. God forbid you have to be creative and can’t just hit your opponent with whatever you want whenever you want. The game hasn’t even released yet, and this video is convincing people who don’t know any better that this is somehow going to ruin it.

[@princes2eye]

oh this is the demo felt so weird to me

[@LogosLFTG]

The game doesnt have enough aerials or moves that break CC, it just makes it so bad to whiff punish with anything besides grab

[@imsoready1114]

Isn’t this just melee’s metagame? Floorhugging, or ASDI down for melee, defines entire matchups at early percents, but the top tiers have specific and very powerful tools that they can use to beat it until they’re at too high a percent to do it anymore. I do agree that it’s a silly mechanic though.

[@Stinkbug_Ab]

Yea its mostly just better in this game.

[@BatpegBackAgain]

@@Stinkbug_AbI don’t even think it is better in this game if anything it’s stronger in melee, it’s just that this game is new, so we aren’t good at beating cc yet, and the engine lets you jab and tilt more freely so we see jabs and tilts losing to cc that we wouldn’t in melee

[@Stinkbug_Ab]

@BatpegBackAgain its for sure a little stronger and easier but you're take is very valid its an easy tech to get a hold of and can feel annoying to new players

[@Gemini_Hero]

I think this really seizes on it for me. It's a lot less about how another game has it and people still play it, and more about whether or not it's actually worth replicating and putting into a completely different game. Like yeah Melee has it and people play it competitively. Melee also has grabs that miss on the z-axis, L-Cancelling, tap jump forced on, multi-hit moves that never combo, varying jumpsquat frames that make several members of the cast almost unusable, hell some moves like Roy dash attack literally just don't have hitboxes on them at certain frames. Only an asylum patient would want to recreate Melee perfectly with every mechanic it had intact. It's a very specific game enjoyed by a very specific subset of players, and it's fine staying there. Mechanics need to be ported over on a case by case basis, and with specific purpose. I just don't think Floorhugging survives that analysis personally.

[@tatybara]

you're right and you should say it

[@Zeke-x9p]

This video is a really bad take. Floorhuging is percent dependent and also weight dependent. You only going to care about it for the initial portion of the way beside that Amsa teching from a mechanic that cannot be buffered is really hard most of your opponents are not going to tech every hit you do. Besides that when someone Floor tech your aerial you gain an inmense amount of frame advantage were you can just follow the tech. That is the same reason that Amsah tech is not broken. Melee has this mechanic and is sincerely more powerfull there and it doesnt represent an issue. Is just a learning curve that makes the game more interesting.

[@internetloser2336]

Bud, if a Clairen player wifs a fully charged nutural attack I shouldn't have to be fearful them fully uno reversing me just because I wanted to set up a simple combo. Considering we have melee players complaining about the same issue now I think this is something the rivals team needs to look into changing.

[@JordanLester13]

that is egregious

[@punkypony5165]

Not really there is a ton of counter play this video was made in bad faith. Leffen already debunked this video.

[@JordanLester13]

@@punkypony5165 could you send me a link on how/where he debunked this?

[@JordanLester13]

@@punkypony5165 I'm still seeing no link, seems like cope to me lowkey

[@BrownieEXE]

They need to fix or remove this. Takes the fun out of the combat

[@bluyu]

This game is played on 3 stocks and it's common to live to 150% and beyond. You could say floorhugging is strong or moves are weak, and they would mean the same thing. Combos are a lot more hit-spammy in this game than in Melee, due to a lot of combo moves having less knockback and hitstun, but this results in floorhugging working outside of situations it should work in. Less hitstun means the opponent isn't locked out of as many options, and it also means that if you miss an attack or try to delay your followup in a combo that requires a million hits, the opponent might already be out of hitstun by then. If combo moves are given more hitstun and knockback scaling, long combos wouldn't be as long, you'd at least get more stage control after missing a follow up, and there would be a stronger case for delaying your follow ups to extend combos. Right now, combos actually feel limited in some ways. As for floorhugging, I will say that you can just floorhug back unless they punish with a grab. So either you grab them first, use a multihit or a spike, or use a strong move that knocks down, and if they Amsah tech too far away to punish, take the free stage control. Another counter is to space your attacks so that opponents can't grab you out of a floorhug. This allows you floorhug back without much risk.

[@absolutechaos6362]

I'm ngl, Rivals 2 feels much slower by comparison to 1. The additions of Ledge Grabbing, Shielding, Crouch Cancelling, and the removal of double Up-b just makes this game feel like Melee 2 rather than it feeling like 'Rivals of Aether' 2. The first game feels a lot punchier, fast paced and rewarding for making good decisions. I hope Rivals 2 gets a big overhaul, because in my opinion, the first game is better in almost every way.

[@Nolan1333]

Geez I had no idea floor hugging was that busted. Really hope they nerf it or do something with it

[@user-rq7cg1xj5e]

4:14 - 4:21 "and why not...crouch cancelling?" With Ranno looking super smug in his frog squat. 🤣

[@SickGamer45327]

almost af is it was intended to whiff punish with grab. Also you showed a shield grab when you wanted to demonstrate a floorhug grab punish. That was probably a mistake. also comparing it to street fighter is not a good example imo because it is not intended to combo off regular throws there and the game has slower movement and no platforms. There are much more floorhug safe moves when your opponent is on a platform. opinion not really thought out imo.

[@BrownieEXE]

Bad game design is still bad game design. Whiff punishes can be avoided through wavedashing, jumping or spot dodging. The fact that floorhugging ads another defensive/offensive option makes it harder to punish & breaks the rock paper scissors formula what a fighting game is known for. You are blind af to see that cuz you love the game too much Critisms are needed to help the game live longer

[@ripleytheoriole]

Really great video, Bio. Funny but also really informative

[@sinbad4435]

You sounds like Core A gaming. but this reminds of the Smash ultimate Steve's PLMG tech where you can cancel the momentum of whatever attack and that can kill people of playing the game

[@pinkzki6473]

Dude I’m bronze and I feel like this game is early stages of fortnite. Right now people haven’t mastered the mechanics, but soon I feel like it will be similar to build wars. Just a bunch of wave dashing, floor hugging, sweaty tryhards that makes the game just to much. Like I’d like to believe I’m better than bronze but everybody I’m going against are already learning these mechanics. Soon, very soon. The game is going to be unplayable at a casual level because it lies to heavily on movement mechanics. I really don’t want to be mashing jump, shield, analog stick multiple times a sec just to get an opening at bronze level. Also lvl 9 cpus are trash. I can already 3 stock a lvl 9, but have a losing record in bronze. A lot of things ain’t right. But I’ve only had one sit down session with it. So let’s see where it goes

[@BioBirb]

Yeah that was the big worry for me. As someone competing in this game professionally I can deal with stuff that's not fun, but most people don't want to and shouldn't be expected to to be able to enjoy the game. Rivals has always been a hard game with a steep learning curve, but to me Rivals 1 felt rewarding to improve in, where this game can feel less fun the better you get. There's still a lot of good things about it, and the devs are listening, so at the very least I'd recommend keeping an eye on the patch notes. First update drops December 3rd

[@pinkzki6473]

@@BioBirb i genuinely hope the devs come in clutch cause Nintendo and the way it treats the competitive scene is depressing.