This One Flaw KILLED Atari’s Console in Japan

[@richardokeefe9194]

Boy does that bring back bad memories. I was Atari's engineer in Tokyo when the 2800 was being released in Japan. One of the reasons I was there was negotiations to license the Famicon for the US and other markets, so we were very aware about Nintendo. The office there was also more interested in pushing the 5200 as being more competitive in that market. However I believe the reason 2800 was chosen was the same reason Atari never licensed the Famicon and chose the 7800 to market in the states: the huge inventory of 2600 cartridges. If you're interested I was also involved in EA Japan, and NEC Turbografx (PC Engine) soon after

[@pojr]

This is some very good info, thank you! When doing research for the video, I had wondered why Atari didn't bring over the 5200 to Japan since it had better hardware, but I assumed it was because there were massive flaws with the 5200 and it didn't do well in the US. The huge inventory of games (like you said) makes sense why they would bring over that console. The 5200 didn't have a huge library of games.

[@richardokeefe9194]

@@pojr Another issue was the divide between the Consumer Electronics and Home Computer Divisions which led to differences between the 5200 and the Atari 400/800 computers which though they had similar hardware required different software. We might have considered the 400 similar to the release of the Commodore Max in Japan.

[@JesterEric]

Atari knew about the Famicom. They were negotiating a deal with Nintendo to distribute the console outside Japan

[@therealjaystone2344]

The deal never came through but a purpose delay from Atari at the market

[@Ratchetcomand]

So glad that it never happen. Atari having control over Nintendo games would have been awful.

[@chaseman94]

I still have my Sears Video Arcade II (Atari 2800) which was handed down to me from my older brother back in 1986.

[@stephenmontgomery5807]

A kid in our neighborhood, his parents shopped mostly at Sears and he had all the cool Imagic games, and a controller with a yellow button instead of an orange button. I love little off versions and custom versions like that!

[@brandong.1857]

It's a nice system, 4 controlle ports. I have one but no controllers so I use Sega Genesis controllers with it

[@NOISEONOMICON]

It was my first console ever! but years later stopped working and my mom drop it. :(

[@IuriFiedoruk]

Meanwhile, in Brazil, the 2600 was released late 1983, in a country so late in electronica due to market reserve law, and already filled with clones and Odyssey 2 that was a hit at the start of same year, but still was a huge success. Funny how things were different in the two countries at same period.

[@LelandReview]

Great topic ! It's a astonishing they sold any Atari's if the NES and Master System were already available in Japan. Once my family had a NES we never went back to Atari.

[@VOAN]

The SG-1000 is not the Sega Master System, the Sega Master System was the successor to the SG-1000 and the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive is the successor to the Sega Master System. In Japan, the Sega Master System is called the Sega Mark III. The SG-1000 was never released in North America, the console was only released in Japan, Australia, and parts of Europe.

[@LelandReview]

@@VOAN Yep I know I have them all in my collection.

[@MCastleberry1980]

That 2800 controller looks like a prototype for the 7800 one

[@impactsuit9871]

It's a pattern, almost every western console and computer company failed for the exact same reason, trying to sell the same outdated hardware for almost a decade... Atari, Commodore, Sinclair, every single one.

[@alexxbaudwhyn7572]

Spot on. Atari execs were idiots thinking the 2800 would sell againt obviously superior Famicom, sega consoles that cost significantly less.

[@BrockMace-y3c]

Don’t forget Microsoft.

[@impactsuit9871]

@user-lr4sd2cw6d Microsoft made its money selling software... And the only reason the IBM PC didn't follow the same slow death from obsolescence was that as an open platform it didn't depend on any incompetent company to evolve

[@yoshisreal]

The only exceptions were IBM and Microsoft, but only for the computer market.

[@Zarathustra-rj4yz]

Epoch is pronounced "epok" kind of like "epic" ;)

[@CCalamity-dv1ll]

In this case, it sounds like he didn't know that. A lot of times though, they'll intentionally mispronounce things (or similar) to make people comment.

[@obsoletebutneat]

@@CCalamity-dv1ll Glad someone else is catching on to that scam.

[@LatitudeSky]

It's not a commonly used word, to be fair.

[@Auxodium]

@@LatitudeSky wrong

[@ronaldsantosjapan]

​​@@LatitudeSky Yeah, it is actually used often. An important secondary characters in the movie "The Matrix" is named Epoch. Some people (some even very smart people) are just crap at pronunciation.

[@Danyplaysboblox]

I didn’t knew that Atari had an exclusive console on Japan

[@therealjaystone2344]

It’s called the Atari 2800

[@JohnZyski]

Oh, is that so? ​@@therealjaystone2344

[@GTV-Japan]

Happy birthday to the Atari 2800! Released 41 years ago today! May 10 1983!

[@BlueMSX.]

Atari Japan was always an interesting story that not many people know about, you did a good job with this retrospective Pojr!

[@Ashe_S_]

I come here for that smile at the end of the intro :)

[@Ashe_S_]

@@james66666 maybe if you're irony poisoned and allergic to sincerity.

[@MrClawt]

Great video POJR. I really enjoy learning the time line of these events. As a kids we had no idea that the NES was years into life span by the time we got it. I love the 2600 but as a kid if I saw the sg 1000 or Famicom at the same time, I would not pick the 2600.

[@oldhunterraziel5327]

So glad I found this channel a couple weeks back. Can't wait to see it grow even more.

[@pojr]

I appreciate that! More content is coming

[@oldhunterraziel5327]

@@pojrkeep it up!! So many games I grew up with in the 80's and digging the nostalgia

[@thomasgebert6119]

Out of curiosity, how do you capture clear footage from the 2600? Emulation? The MiSTer? I've attempted to capture the RF from it before but it was always hazy and disgusting.

[@jackofallgamesTV]

The Atari 5200 was released in 1982 in America why couldn't they release THAT in Japan? The 5200 might have held up nicely in Japan. Especially if it was 1983.

[@therealjaystone2344]

The 5200 was just an add on console and not truly next gen console just because the graphics were better.

[@jackofallgamesTV]

@@therealjaystone2344 . No it's not an add-on. You had to buy that separately, and that was a separate system. You are probably confusing it with the Starpath Supercharger.n The Starpath supercharger was the add-on to the 2600 that got games on audio cassette. BTW the Atari 5200 did not play 2600 cartridges without an adapter that was made significantly later. Certain older machines had to be modified by the factory in order to use the 2600 adapter. 4 Port models with a star have already had the modifications made for the classic 2600 adapter.

[@jackofallgamesTV]

@@therealjaystone2344 the 5200 was not an add-on. It was a completely new system. The add on you're probably thinking on is the Starpath Supercharger. The Supercharger was a cartridge that plugged in the Atari cartridge slots that had a TRS 3.5 mm cable on it to plug into the headphone jack of ordinary cassette players. Cassette had more data room than cartridge plus there were extra RAM and maybe a processor to in the cartridge itself to help the Supercharger.

[@jackofallgamesTV]

@@therealjaystone2344 no the 5200 was not an add-on console. It was a totally separate console. The add-on console for the 2600 you're thinking of is most likely the Starpath Supercharger. The 5200 was supposed to be the next generation console. The 7800 was a retooling of the 5200 because of the mistakes made by the 5200. Really, what's the difference between the 5200 and the 7800 version of BallBlazer? (other than analog controls on the 5200) Nothing.

[@PixelsNcreatureS]

​@@therealjaystone2344 definitely not an add-on console. Two different models, both were stand alone

[@mindbenderx1174]

So. ive been watching Avgn and Pat the Nes Punk, since 2007 or so, metal jesus rocks, I go to PRGE every year, and would consider myself somewhat of a retro tech snob, You consistently come up with new info and amazing info that others are not . I also appreciate your low key approach! Keep up the Great Videos. I had originally subscribe and have enjoyed your contect since about 5k subscribers.

[@JohnZyski]

I agree with all of this.

[@David_Ladd]

Thank you for sharing your content with the rest of the world! Have a great day everyone!

[@aegisofhonor]

56,300 yen in 1978 was equal to around $270 US today, far above the US price for an Atari VCS at $190 which even that was quite pricy at the time as many cheaper pong clones could be had for $20-30 at the time.

[@mchenrynick]

Computer hardware, although primitive and limited, was extremely expensive to produce back then.

[@edrosa3485]

Damn. I had no idea about Atari's efforts in Japan. Well done!

[@Gojiro7]

I got to say this is a really great topic and you covered it pretty well. You don't see enough KZbinrs covering the Japan side of the early video game scene before Nintendo really took off as a company, so great vid

[@OMJames]

I gotta say, you've really got a good thing here, Pojr. You're finding topics that I don't really see elsewhere on KZbin. It's why I subscribed. :)

[@Earths1stgamer]

When they discontinued the 2800 the shells that remained were used for the Atari 3600 or as we know it the 7800 Pro System.

[@Z64bit]

So what were some of the things Atari got in trouble for with their arcade games?

[@anthustenebris9202]

I didn't know that Epoch had distributed the Japanese version of the Atari VCS. And that this would inspire Epoch to build the Cassette Vision. In recent years I've been researching Epoch's Barcode Battler product line, which featured many sets of "Exclusive Card Software", nine of which were sold in leftover Cassette Vision software cases.

[@Sly88Frye]

Wow! Come to think of it as soon as I saw 1983 I should have known right away that there was no chance the Atari 2800 would have any success just because the famicom was released that year. Definitely too little too late

[@coryengel]

The “teleport” feature is called “hyperspace.” I don’t know what the verb form of hyperspace is (maybe ask Han Solo), but it isn’t teleport. Hyperspace means traveling somewhere else really fast, whereas teleporting means jumping to another location without traversing the intervening space. Although in Asteroids it looks like teleporting, that’s not what the feature is called in the manual or original arcade docs.

[@drsysop]

I remember my friend from Japan use to buy cartridges here in the US & take them back as they did have limited games.

[@NTBXP1]

For a console named "Atari" (hit) it was a quite a "hazure" (miss).

[@Angellmbrr]

Pojr is becoming the new "Gaming Historian" and now that he's gone this channel will explode.

[@JohnZyski]

I didn't know about this. Great video.

[@The_Badseed]

If Atari would of used that boss wood grain the Japanese could not resist

[@marblemunkey]

Warlords was a fantastic way to waste an afternoon with my cousins in 1993.

[@NOISEONOMICON]

Wait! I had a similar model back in the 80´s! the Video Arcade II from SEARS!!!! it was just lik this one! the controllers, everything, and yes, even the bad buttons and lame connectors. It stopped working a copule of years later. Greetings from Ecuador! 45 years lod gamer here. Didnt´know this info!

[@vaderbase]

1:09 this Thing had some great colors on screen. Way more than a c64?!

[@coboldelphi]

It's important to note that Atari did not get the endorsement from Godzilla as they had expected. Japan looked closely to see if Godzilla would be entertained long enough to leave the mainland in peace. As we all know now, Godzilla found the console boring, so boring in fact he went to destroy vast parts of Japan as documented in multiple movies. While the famicon did settle Godzilla down a bit, it wasn't until the super famicon can you really say Japan was hooked on gaming and so too Godzilla, minus a few grumbles until the PS1. That of course is a whole different course of history.

[@jaredbrown691]

Just picked up. 2800 last year but my first console ever was the sears arcade ii so about the exact same thing with a different badge. I love how it looks and everything about it is perfect but I admit the hybrid controllers aren’t the best.

[@VisiV]

Pojr is the ultimate best pojr.

[@austinreed7343]

Obsolete hardware, along with overly obtuse games, killed a lot of European microcomputers here in the U.S., and even kills them among retro gamers in hindsight.

[@jasonz7788]

Great job thanks pojer

[@BangBang-hk4rg]

I lived in Japan as a teen from 1987 to 1992. I never saw a single Atari there. All I ever saw was Family Computer everywhere.

[@jeffhibbs8526]

You would have not seen anything becuase that was all that was released in Japan was the 2 consoles that failed so by 1984 atari was gone in Japan. So the 5200 up the Jaguar nothing was released to Japan as atari focused on North America and Europe markets.

[@EdgyNumber1]

Bathlezone and Pitfall... awesome.

[@FeralInferno]

That would be cool to pickup an Atari 2800.

[@SáviodaSilvaDias]

To think that Atari and Nintendo almost became partners but because of some misunderstanding Atari refused to release the Famicom in the west

[@TheWarmotor]

Are you sure your math is correct? 25k yen might have been $160 in 1980, but "In today's money" would mean that the yen has APPRECIATED in value over 40 years? Maybe my pea brain is screwing something up here?

[@pojr]

I may have been incorrect on it. When I looked it up on Google, I believe it was giving me today's money. But I decided to include the part anyway just to give an idea of how much it might have been, and I purposely mentioned that it was according to Google.

[@TheWarmotor]

@@pojr No worries my dude. I understand the dynamic here, you work hard on your videos and there is always going to be some AHole "Actual Lee" in the comments with some nitpicky BS. I don't ever want to be that guy, sometimes my brain feels hazy and things don't line up, and I'm just hoping for someone to tell me that the world makes sense and I've just killed too many brain cells to keep up. You ever feel that way?

[@yiris10001]

love the video, though the writing could be a bit more 'academic' sounding since it is suppose to be an informative video. when you said according to Google doesn't sound very well even if its accurate. ( I'm referring to the two times you mentioned the cost from yen to USD) besides that great job man!

[@Electrical.Perspective]

Awesome a new episode

[@TheSegacampGamerandWerecamp]

I didn't Atari remade the 2600 as the Atari 2800 in Japan that is Pretty Wild! but at least it had some Good Games even though Nintendo Dominated the Japanese Market with Mario, Zelda, and whatever they were Releasing AT THE TIME! but I do give Atari a Chance for trying!

[@coryengel]

Epoch is pronounced more like “epic.” As in “a notable period of time; an era.”

[@Vallee152]

It seems like you didn't account for inflation in your conversions. 24800 of today's yen is equal to around 160 of today's USD. Accounting for inflation, according to two different sources, ¥24800 back then is around US$215 today

[@Embargoman]

Well as Atari didn’t know that Nintendo is giving them a run for its money when the NES was released in the 1980s in the US.

[@VOAN]

When Nintendo was planning to bring the Famicom to the US in 1984, it was going to be called the AVS (Atari Videogame System). That's cause originally Atari and Nintendo were going to sign a deal in partnership so Atari could manufactured that console in NA but then Atari found out about the Donkey Kong Coleco Adam situation and they backed out of the deal so then Nintendo had to manufactured the console in NA themselves. The AVS was then rename the Advance Videogame System rather then the Atari Videogame System and then because people considered videogames as obsolete at the time, nobody were excited for the AVS. Nintendo then redesign the AVS and renamed it to the NES which stands for Nintendo Entertainment System and make it look more like a toy rather than a videogame. This strategy was able to duped the NA consumers into buying the console and the rest is history.

[@Embargoman]

@@VOAN Yes that happened even Atari also plans to sell the Sega Genesis and call it it the Tomahawk.

[@Studeb]

Five years after the US release, why did it fail? Imagine trying to launch a console five years later these days.

[@JasperTedVidalTale]

I guess its because the Atari 2600 couldn't display Japanese Characters

[@Vallee152]

It can't technically display latin characters either, it needs to be programmed by hand

[@JasperTedVidalTale]

@@Vallee152 Oh that is also very interesting

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

Probably because Japanese gamers were smart to not buy garbage from Atari.

[@therealjaystone2344]

@@Adamtendo_player_1not to mention it launched in 1983 when it was already outdated previous gen console with mostly bad games

[@magnusdiridian]

so all those pong consoles came out in the 70's, and then there was a crash. Maybe the FIRST video game crash?

[@intravena]

"EPOTCH" lolol

[@PhilipMarcYT]

Epoch?

[@amitypredator9385]

​​@@PhilipMarcYT it's pronounced "epock" Minor issue though

[@TheMutantMindframe]

came looking for this comment

[@btr3k]

@@amitypredator9385 As it's a Japanese company, I did a bit of searching and found it's "エポック (Epokku)" - so yeah that would be the equivalent of "Epock" in English. Side note for anyone who cares (which is probably no one), some time ago I noticed old Taito flyers show their name as タイトー . Based on their English name, I would have expected タイト.

[@hammerheadms]

I cringed every time he said it.

[@samcadwallader2899]

Funny I just watched a year old video about this console today from another youtuber who actually owned one. I still appreciate your efforts though pojr :)

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

Atari hardware was always junk, until Paperboy I never cared for anything Atari because Paperboy had much better graphics and sound.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

Atari made the best gaming PC of the 70's, and it was the Warner/Jack Tramiel buy-outs that destroyed their reputation by either refusing to release good tech until it was too late or screwing over anyone who worked with them, or other nonsense. That said, after the crash, Atari in arcades was a different company than Atari at home.

[@jackofallgamesTV]

Annette's technically Atari games which is now owned by Midway which is now a Warner Brothers company.

[@JamsterJules]

I've had a drink everytime you say "Japan", and I'm totally pissed 4:40 in. Ill try again tomorrow

[@chazzw5388]

Jack was an old school penny pincher! Always not wanting to go with the upgraded new technology because he didn't want to shell out the bucks!

[@JetScreamer_YT]

He calls himself an actor? I'm just kidding I love you Tom

[@edwardzborowski5879]

The controller was not much of an upgrade. Certain parts wore quickly and became less responsive.

[@JimLeonard]

What was the flaw? You didn't mention a specific flaw of the console in the video.

[@robertlauncher]

Atari 2800: *Goes to Japan only to get beat up by Nintendo and Sega.*

[@ConNinGame]

hello pojr

[@sockcutter]

Asteroids don't only move vertically. Try a higher skill level.

[@saigonmonopoly1105]

3.5 and 51/4 floppy disc crude form of memory drive cassete

[@Mrshoujo]

You failed to go into detail what problems Atari faced in Japan.

[@VOAN]

I believe Atari failed in Japan cause they didn't know that Nintendo and Sega already had consoles over there which cater to the Japanese audience more and both are technically more advance. Remember that before 1984 Atari had no clue that Nintendo and Sega were getting into the hardware business cause both were still making games for Atari's consoles as well.

[@PixelsNcreatureS]

Failed? What problems besides Nintendo and Sega being there already did they face? What info didn't he mention

[@NEStalgia1985]

How can u not trust that smile

[@ONEDVSDVIT]

Oh you do have arms... phew!!! Hahaha...

[@jlk311]

i tried hitting the subscribe button on ur video but all it did was kept pausing and unpausing playback

[@RetroCave-wr9tl]

Atari's definition of too little too late. It looks cool though.

[@autofox1744]

Epoch is pronounced Ee-pock.

[@AtariBorn]

Epoch (eepock)

[@maniaque37]

you sound a bit like stephen hawkings

[@cubeflinger]

Dear America, the atari was shit. Lots of love every other console ever released afterwards

[@saigonmonopoly1105]

all i know is amstrad 64 amiga 500 copy floppy killed cartigese 4 free

[@hanniffydinn6019]

Come on Nintendo ruined Atari in America! How could you beat super Mario on NES? Ultimately japan had better games! 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤯🤯🤯🤯

[@The_Haze]

Dude, Epoch is pronounced EHPOKU Just sayn'

[@stringercorrales6627]

“We also have a discord server” Disliked 👎

[@randallcrandall]

Epoch is NOT pronounced that way!!! It was so grating on the ear it almost ruined this great video. Homie, get closer... It is pronounced "EpoK".

[@lordterra1377]

Dude breaks into a random smile like he has Torette syndrome. Great video but creepy smile.

[@clutch2827]

Epoch is pronounced eh·puhk or like saying the word 'Epic' not E-POTCH. LOL!

[@ZagnutBar]

"Epotch" = "Epic" fail.

[@shadowa00]

Its Epok. Or epoku if you’re Japanese

[@jimk3]

HAHAHA - say EPOCH again

[@gitgeronimo9375]

Pronounced “epock”