This Raid is Fang-Tastic!: RWF Nerub-ar Palace - Update 1

[@Trebolf]

"The race will not affect our regular streaming schedule" - Mike Gaming, 2024

[@Pakulia]

That looks so awesome. Happy to see you are having such a great time! \o/

[@Vanishou]

Thanks for sharing the tour and your experience ! Looking forward to the next one.

[@candykit5382]

This race was so exciting it received 1 whole day of coverage

[@blakeevans5724]

Such a cool place! Thanks for showing it all Preach. Super super cool stuff 👾👾

[@BriGuy77711]

The Mythic raid always comes out at RWF difficulty, then gets nerfed to Mythic difficulty, then might get nerfed to sub-Mythic difficulty near the end of a tier. It's so common that people talk about killing a boss "pre-nerf" or "post-nerf" because they understand that they are essentially different difficulty levels. At this point, we should just consider having an Ultimate difficulty, where gear is normalized so ilvl is not a factor to performance, and make it all about class skill and fight execution. I know it would take away a bit of the romanticism of completing the content that our favorite RWF guild completes, but in truth we haven't been doing that for a long time.

[@pryncebusta]

That idea sounds so bad

[@BriGuy77711]

@@pryncebusta Why? I’m open to changing my mind but I need more than “it’s bad” to go on.

[@Dimumouto]

@@BriGuy77711 There's a number of issues; one, you're drawing from FFXIV. Trying to make WoW more like XIV is a bad idea in and of itself (same with trying to make XIV more like WoW), since they're vastly different games. Entirely different approaches to encounter/class design. Two, you're basically asking for content to be made for an extremely niche and small portion of the playerbase, very likely less than 500 players total. With everything being developed for the game already, adding on something that very few people would be able to do is a bad idea. Three, it'd be a balancing nightmare. Since ilvls would be normalized, would players be *boosted up* and *nerfed down* to that normalization? Or just nerfed? That would then require them to grind out gear just to hit that threshold or else be at a severe disadvantage compared to others who did that. By having a normalized ilvl just to do it, you're still saying gear is a part of it. In the first place, would players be able to tackle this at lower gear levels? Which seems like an extremely bad idea given that the normalized level would be considered the minimum. Four, it'd just be for bragging rights. It couldn't be another source of Myth track gear, else the ilvl normalization would be moot (and adding *another* track of gear would further inflate the already high ilvls as it is). It'd only be available to those who have the time to put into practicing, further limiting who can do it (see point two), which is already a factor for Mythic.

[@candykit5382]

Huh? Normalized ilvl means everyones put at the same ilvl, it would remove gear as it would set your ilvl at a certain number, and the top tier content is already being designed for a few people and itll get massively nerfed, its essentially a different difficulty than everyone else will do. Rwf is already just for bragging rights.

[@GotekSC]

​@@Dimumouto 1. I fail to see the reasoning behind that statement. Nobody is talking about encounter/class design. Mixing the two games together in that regard is not a requirement for what OP was asking. Wow players do not want to get downgraded to xiv class design, which is how it is because of the laggy spaghetti engine/netcode and controller requirement combo. Similarly, to me it feels like its basically impossible to improve the combat system when the narrative by the devs is that the barely noticeable graphics update was this huge task for them. Keep both games that way, it's fine. Imo wow hugely benefitted from realizing other devs are able to make, and players do enjoy good stories in mmos for example. On the other hand, xiv would hugely benefit from a fractal (gw2) / mythic+ like feature, and *shipping* with outdoor exploratory content instead of abandoning casuals until the x.2/x.3 patch. Sitting in the dry for 6 months after a 17 pull endboss for a raid with nothing to do (and fuck.. beast tribes, fishing, housing, achievements do not qualify) is utter insanity for a paying playerbase. I'm happy that I raid MINE every week, so content does not quite run out for me personally, else I would've quit long ago. 2. This is already the case, reread the OP comment. There are in total 14 guilds at 5/8 or higher. Look at how many people are hardstuck at Broodtwister. There are more guilds progging broodtwister than horror. That is statistically and historically atypical. 3. I don't understand. We know that the game can already do this from pvp stat templates in expansions past. Boosted up/down does not really matter then. The gear on your character would essentially only be stat weights. 4. Simple, still reward the same ilvl gear that "regular" mythic rewards. Make it have a shared lockout with "regular" so you can't cheese for increased myth-track items/week. As long as stat templates from 3. are forced, its fine. That way any racer that still wants to play the game after the race is not forced to feel behind.

[@zerti86]

you're a legend Preach

[@argentinelawdness]

"we have to sneak down here" / CLONK

[@kyumei_]

i love behind the scenes stuff like this!

[@JirxOnGames]

This is very interesting look behind the curtains even for those who don't rly follow gaming. My girlfriend recently showed an interest (to my surprise) in this race to world first and this peek behind the curtains definetly helps her imagine and realize what's all behind such an event.

[@forestcaine]

I think echos biggest pressure this tier is coming from method. No one expected method to look this good.

[@SNE4KZ]

I love the race it's cool to have 24/7 stuff to watch for a couple weeks.

[@waynee6878]

I see they build you a shrine of baked beans. NICE

[@jackal2607]

Havent watched rtwf in a long time, really enjoying this one

[@Dragonology99]

really jazzed with the raid, heroic feels balanced a lot like Nighthold Heroic it's a lot of fun to pug through

[@Cream_89]

Blizzard def need to tune the first bosses better in the future imo. They don't need to nerf later bosses if the progression for 'casual' guilds was better. But when they fight 4 easy bosses and then face a straight wall that basically is impossible for their level people start to feel frustrated. Ideally the best progress would be so casual guilds reach the 'harder' bosses once the RWF is over. I know it's hard to balance but im sure Blizzard can do a better job at tuning the early bosses.

[@jaymzOG]

Yeah they need to meet in the middle somewhere. First 4 shouldn't fall over, last 4 shouldn't wall you. But at the end of the day it's still Mythic, and it makes sense to not full clear on first reset.

[@exiousgb7757]

Holler ballers! Are we back?!?

[@Buclock]

Personally I love when the bosses are overtuned to high hell for the RWF guilds, it creates a better show and its not a problem to nerf them week 2/3/4, 95% of people won't even get there by the nerfs anyway

[@VegasVenomX]

A Red Bull in case you get tired??? How far we've come from the days of Mike and Andy drinking Monsters saying "sponsered" 😂

[@GrandMagusDK]

If it makes the game better I think it's fine if the race becomes a one reset thing.

[@Samualwallow]

Locked Room is EAFC team of FC Köln

[@Battler624]

holy, the food looks wowzers

[@yuushaex]

what a scuffed set up. i would sit in that massage chair all day

[@kinbailey310]

I watch on KZbin because I dont have to deal with ads

[@THEBLUENINJASHEN]

good food, nice gym, personal space 😲

[@argentinelawdness]

Preach dodging stairs like he takes beans on the chin

[@KoalaSTP]

I really like the shorter (8 Bosses) Raids. Its so hard to remember all the mechanics with 8 let alone 10 Bosses and as a tank in a Pug everybody expects that from you. The difficulty curve in mythic was a bit off 😅

[@MakAttack916]

I still think the answer is an Ultimate style raid difficulty separate from the normal raids.

[@curlyhead360]

The problem isn't just bosses 5/6 being too hard, it's bosses 3/4 being too easy. A lot of good mythic, but not RWF, guilds should still be progging earlier bosses, but they're so relatively easy that a lot more guilds than normal hit the broodtwister wall week one. Having 10 bosses is a solution. But I don't think it's strictly necessary. You can have 8 bosses, just make bosses 3/4 a bit harder and 5/6 a bit easier and the curve smoothes much better.

[@BPStyle89]

The Problem is more that the early bosses are to easy not that the other are to hard. Normal mythic guilds will be at princess for example when they have more gear than echo and there is a buff present aswell that makes it easier in a few weeks time.

[@Biggiewhite75]

I was like, alright looks cool, nice setup. Then when you got to Production I went MORE MORE I Need to see how they do all that!!!! (im in production if that is not made clear for some reason)

[@deejkeithanmusic]

even on youtube max has over 10k views regularly

[@piotrjeske4599]

I can't even imagine how a 40-45year old non professional player does those fights without going blind.

[@RazanaArcclaw]

I am surpised they even bothered having the event during the heroic/delves week

[@Foretelling]

15:06 - Bless her, she thought you meant that she's making you bad you food because she wants you gone lol.

[@Shockees]

Love the behind the scenes stuff BUT was that toothbrush raw dogging the counter in the bathroom?!?!?!?

[@tarawright4339]

You're right that the raid is too short. I love seeing so many hundred-plus-pull bosses, but the difficulty curve is way too high, and as you said, it's messing seriously with lower ranked guilds who want to still have their raid week. There needs to be a couple of 50-pull bosses between Bat Boy and Slug Boy, to give the hall of fame guilds something to chew on before hitting the wall at sluggo. Would make for a better viewing experience, too, having at least SOME kind of ramp up between piss-easy one-shot bosses and a sudden brick wall of difficulty Either way, this race has been so cool. I mean, how often do we go all the way to reset before even seeing the end boss on broadcast?

[@ASpaceOstrich]

I thought that weird art was a massive Displate ad.

[@ryanbennett4712]

WHERE cam i get that hoodie

[@johntravis7304]

Oho I'm SO FIRED UP about their prog! Gotta really EXPLOIT your advantages amirite? RWF - race to we'refucked--justkiddingwecan'getbanned joke.

[@ChichiNaka]

is it the same two companies it always is then the rapey one kinda chasing them in third place or

[@Nightstalker314]

BTS was quite interesting.

[@Sergito800]

Mr Preach! a question! how long do you work out at the gym? i normally go 3 times a week and stay there for one hour doing 20 - 30 min of cardio and the rest muscle training. i just started getting a little more serious on taking care of myself so im unsure if what i do is enough or too much.

[@michaelyun2407]

Blizzard have to design the boss overturn and hard since addons are too powerful. Only way is to make the boss very difficult and overrun with 50 mechanics at once

[@jwebcoding7289]

It’s a really vicious cycle now because weak auras made some bosses too easy and so blizzard had to make harder bosses to compensate which meant more players used weak auras and so on so forth. I think the only good solution to this is to place limits on what add-ons can do. That way Blizzard can scale the bosses back down to reasonable levels without having the info from add-ons trivialize them.

[@raymondandsweetheart7150]

I would be ok if they nerft the raid by 50% after rwf ends.

[@Nonstopie]

Man i'd love a behind the scenes of the production room, love super nerdy stuff like that

[@eyeofthasky]

no one cares for what the top 0,001% of wow players are doing, thats why almost no one watches RWF and when it finally dies, the game will finally be designed for players, i.e. u dont "need" weird addons but the game in itself is coherent

[@keithb6344]

Yeah there was only 30,000 people watching yesterday. No one.

[@sownyp9980]

Rwf is good for marketing but bad for the game

[@bgh12g]

clicked just to thumbs down coverage of racing to ruin wow. stop covering this crap so wow can go back to what it was.

[@eXcaligore]

I don't think it's a problem that the raid is made really hard for the RWF, if the nerf come out when they kill it so the rest can do it I don't see the problem in that. And if you want to be among the first guilds who finish the raid, then yeah, you'll have to compete on that level.