This Situation is Crazy

[@Zealandism]

So the one thing I didn't know about: The vote was anonymous and at least a large portion of the fans take issue with the lack of accountability in an anonymous vote, makes sense because they could vote against what their fans at a specific club

[@koenbobeldijk]

Some clubs were actually proven to have voten against their own internal fan vote

[@kadaltv8811]

Even worse, there is with a 99% possibility a CEO that voted for the investment even tho the Club told him to vote against it. The Club is Hannover 96 from the second devision and Martin Kind is their CEO. He purchased larged parts of the club many years ago but is not liked by the fans and also basicily the entire club including the other board members. I appologize for my bad english and the bad explanation. If you find some time you might want to read into that because it is one of the main points of the protests because the vote past with exactly this one vote. Love your content, greetings from Germany.

[@BlueWoWTaylan]

I mean, missing the core point of the issue kinda makes the whole video...well, pointless because it changes all the arguments in it :D

[@sonofcleinias7748]

Cheers up man, you missed the main point of the video and made us wait until 10:10 before revealing the fact BUT, at least you turned your lights green.

[@christopherlenz6744]

You should read the statement on Hannover 96s website released a couple of days ago. Idk if it's available in English, but using any translating service will probably be enough to understand the meat of it. Because the main point is: this vote is a direct attack on 50+1. They held it anonymously, after the fist one failed, because they KNEW some CEOs would vote against their clubs wishes - which they aren't allowed to do under 50+1. The hope was that this way no one will know who voted what. This fell apart however when all the clubs who voted "no" came out and said so.

[@JohannGeldmacher]

As a German Bundesliga fan I feel like I can explain why the protests are happening: 1. When the first vote failed the matter seemed to be settled until the DFL changed a few bullshit modalities to just call a second vote. Voting until you are satisfied while smaller clubs are being pressured to comply is not the most democratic thing. 2. I think most fans have the feeling that this could open the floodgates. Of course they have said that there will be no interference with the scheudle, no matches abroad and the investor has no influence but lets be honest, if you are spending a billion+ euros you want some influence and none of this shit is written down. Maybe they wont change anything in the next few years but in 10, 15 years no one will remember this stuff. We just want to avoid anything that would lead us to a situation like England or Spain. If my club is in a cup final I want to be able to watch it without paying loads of money for a trip to Saudi-Arabia (just as an example). I feel like most of the active fans (which are the ones protesting) would agree with me when I say that I would rather have the league losing relevance compared to other leagues than losing the spirit of the league with really is unique to Germany. 3. Even though the clubs decide who represents them most representatives are incredibly disliked. Many clubs have elites that only care about themselves and don't give a fuck about the fans (Watzke, Carro, etc.). Also the DFB and DFL have a history of horrendous elites without any intention of helping anyone but themselves. Because of this we have just learned to not trust anything that comes out of their mouths.

[@camero3266]

Slippery slope England didn’t used to be like it is now fans aren’t cared about at all

[@camero3266]

Love you Zealand but you are wrong on this

[@VillaFanDan92]

I wish people in England protested like this before things were too far gone. It's a slippery slope, can totally understand why Bundesliga fans want to protect the integrity of their league. It doesn't start as them moving games to the US and Saudi and demanding kickoff times that are awkward for German fans, but better for overseas TV watchers - but it'll get there if you don't resist it at the start.

[@bipolarminddroppings]

British people are far too reserved for stuff like this. If you want this kind of reaction out of us, you will need to get the Premiership to try to skip a queue. Then we will bring the fury of 7 hells down upon it.

[@Marex5341]

Protest against what?Financial superiority over the rest of europe?

[@Burpingtogheter]

Ik right? Here in Italy the only thing that comes even remotely close is the Curva Sud, unfortunately the figc censors protests instead of giving their main (legal) source of revenue the voice they deserve and, frankly, the lack of spine the clubs have is causing our league to crash and burn

[@imperialsky8273]

the issue is not the sale itself. it's pretty tame and actually probably a net positive for the growth of the league and the clubs within it. the issue is the precedent that it sets. many german fans see the increased marketization of the bundesliga as something that will eventually lead to the destruction of the power that the fans have. it's one of those classic slippery slope situations. as an american, i personally side with the german fans on this one even if it is a little extreme.

[@msaidoo630]

Oh now it makes more sense

[@SeyrenaKatsuragi]

As a german I can confirm that this is exactly what we are afraid of

[@MrKMaussen]

Its also the process of the vote. 50+1 was probably ignored by one CEO. We dont know, because they held the vote in secret, although the parent club said, how they wanted to vote the CEO of the their company, who runs the professional team. This CEO is the only one who has not revealed how he voted, but all of the clubs against the deal have already come forward. So without his vote they would not have gotten the two thirds majority, which basically means, 50+1 was violated. Its a lot more complicated than what Z mentioned in this video. Cant fault him for that, because even German media dont report on this correct, so how would international media.

[@facekickr]

This makes perfect sense.

[@Loeffellux]

Just wanna add to waht you said regarding the "extreme" way in which German fans are responding: Yes, you could argue that given the fact that the the DFL stated that they won't do any of the things that German fans fear most (like having matches outside of Germany) and given the "small" nature of the share with only 8%, that the reaction is a bit "extreme". It isn't, though. And the reason for this is simple: this is a not an eye-to-eye negotiation between two equal partners. Yes, 50+1 exists and yes, the people deciding are voted for by the individual clubs but that's a _mighty_ roundabout way of representation. The truth is that much like in regular politics, the people don't have a way of controlling each and every single thing their representatives to. And when their representatives end up doing something that the most passionate and most relevant group of people disagrees with (the people _actually_ attending the games) then they will become obviousyl very frustrated. Not only with the individual decision that was made but also with the fact that such a decision was made at all. You might say that it's the fans' way to remind the club represenatives of their place. They are not football. The players _and the fans_ are. If every single decision made by the DFL was voted for by the public, then yes, the reaction would be too extreme. But like this it's a very appropriate reaction that should make it more than obvious to the DFL that they've decided to go into a direction where the fans _will not follow_ . And by doing that, they are actually providing the DFL with a critical service: they are stopping them from destryoing the core of what makes the Bundesliga special, which would obviously go against their own interests.

[@piekay7285]

What happened was that some people got told by their clubs to vote against it and voted for it, which is why the vote was made anonymous by the league. The league tried to force it through, not only against the will of most fans, but against the will of the clubs

[@djmcki]

13:20 Just to clarify, Evonik isn't a foreign investor. They are a chemical company from Germany with an US Branch, which is listed in New Jersey. Calling them a foreign investor is misleading.

[@ztonner5166]

He's on wikipedia but doesn't go to the Evonik wiki which says they are headquartered in Essen, Germany. Lol

[@Zealandism]

I googled them and my brain shut off when I saw science stuff

[@MrKMaussen]

Its way more complicated than that. You touched on 50+1. Its THE rule thats keeps the fan culture the way it is right now. But not every club ist run like that. Bayer Leverkusen, RB Leipzig and until recently Hoffenheim are basically clubs with owners. So there are exceptions. Also, my club, Hannover 96, which has a somewhat dubios contract with the company that run the professional team, has a CEO who basically ignored the No vote of the club. Because the clubs themselves do not vote themselves, but the CEOs of the companys which run the professional teams vote. And the DFL just gave the clubs about 5 weeks to run the proposal by their members. So there never was a real dialoge. Its also the process of the vote. 50+1 was probably ignored by one CEO. We dont know, because they held the vote in secret, although the parent club said, how they wanted to vote the CEO of the their company, who runs the professional team. This CEO is the only one who has not revealed how he voted, but all of the clubs against the deal have already come forward. So without his vote they would not have gotten the two thirds majority, which basically means, 50+1 was violated. Its a lot more complicated than what Z mentioned in this video. Cant fault him for that, because even German media dont report on this correct, so how would international media. Would love to educate you more about this.

[@SeyrenaKatsuragi]

As a German I can say that the problem is not that specific decision, its the precedent it sets that could and will likly lead down the slope to more and more investors and in the end to abolish 50+1...

[@dannylys6815]

I disagree hard with this video. 1. the black tennis ball clip is a few years old, but that's pretty irrelevant. 2. the scheduling of matchdays staying the way they are is NOT guaranteed at all. The DFL says it is, but no fan in Germany trusts them. Because they are corrupt like every other footballing organization and don't care for the fans. 3. a really important part is actually the voting. First of all fans don't vote who is CEO in a, second of all the votes were cast anonymously, which just makes it way shadier. There is also very real suspicion that Martin Kind the CEO of Hannover 96 voted for yes, even though the club decided to vote with no, which would break 50+1 rules and since it was anonymous we can't verify if he followed the clubs will. 4. Another problem is that you don't really understand fan culture in Germany, we don't if our clubs can compete in Champions League, at least not if it means selling yourself to investors. This investment might not be very big for now, but it opens the door for more and endangers the integrity of the league and maybe even the toppling of the 50+1 rule. 5. Also there were only 2 possible investors, one of them already rejected the deal (possibly because of the protests). So the negotiating position is way worse now for the DFL and we might get a worse deal. Btw in my opinion, 1 billion for 20 years isn't even that good of a deal, if they even get that. 6. Some clubs that voted yes even said that they would vote with no in a new vote and a lot of smaller clubs were probably pressured into voting with yes. I don't blame you for not understanding every part of german fan culture, but trust me siding with the DFL is almost never the move. And a poll done recently showed that like 80% of ALL fans were against the investment, so not even just hardcore fans.

[@Cjiijci]

To be fair, zealand says in the video that he doesnt understand why german fans are against the sale, neither do i. It seems that its just that the CEOs are not trusted but thats not really any reason behind it. I trust you fans and your opinion, but as i said, thats not a reason to say the deal is bad, its more that the deal is unrelevant but its the lack of trust in the CEOs that makes fans against any deal, because you dont trust the CEOs to act in your best interest.

[@MarvinSVW1899]

Hey Z, love your videos, but being a fan of Werder Bremen and being from Germany I can tell you that you left out a lot of information regarding how and why the second vote was passed in the first place, just look into Martin Kind and Hannover 96 and that whole situation right now regarding the vote, as well as the fact that the 50+1 rule states that the club board AND CLUB MEMBERS have to agree. The issue is, that the fans were not included in the process as the DFL purposely carried out the vote within a few weeks, so the clubs could not poll the members/fans and get their opinion on the matter. Additionally, the vote was not transparent, in that no one knows who really voted for what if the clubs had not made it public themselves. Finally, the last possible investor, CVC, are known for extracting every single penny possible for their own gain from their investment in Formula 1 among others, making the fact that the DFL now is in an awful negotiation position even worse. The DFL is also not trying to communicate with fans, as seen by earlier "invitations" by the DFL and DFB to the Ultras, where the fans were ridiculed and all wishes and demands were ignored by the league regarding choreographies, pyro, police operations and the investor. Breaking the situation down and saying that they are doing it because its fun is ridiculous and insulting 15:10 Oh, and the clip from 4:00 is from years ago adding to the "misinformation", or rather "not the whole truth/story" I know you love the sport and reporting on it, but you should either do better when making a video on a serious topic that is so utterly important to a huge part of German fans, or just not make a video on it at all if you don't understand the issue.

[@wolfmax7307]

Hey Zealand, german fan here. I think you might not fully understand the view of the protesting fans. 1. Yes 8% istnt that much, but it is a slippery slope for more. If 8% are accepted, maybe in 5 years its 15 % and so on. We (the fans) feel like we have to stop it in its roots. 2. Looking at Borussia Dortmund for the investor share isnt really fair, they are one two clubs in germany (the other being Bayern) who are at the stock market. 3. Yes, the DFL promised that the investor will not have any influence in match-time, finals in saudi-arabia etc. but the fans dont trust the DFL and DFB because they are known for making exeptions in favor of money (exeptions for the 50+1 rule with Hoffenheim and RB Leibzig) and doing unpopular things that arent in the interests of the fans (you mentioned Monday games; in general the widening (I hope thats a word) of the game day, which is really anyoing if you have a awaygame on a friday evening or sunday e.g.) 4. The vote was behind closed doors which is really undemocratic. 5. The CEO of Hannover voted against the opinion of the club members and they demand a new vote, because if Kind (Hannover CEO) voted like the club intended, the 2/3 majority need wouldnt be reached. It was such a close vote. To sum up a bit, the protest arent really about the 8%, but about investors in general. Football already is very commercialized, even here in Germany, and there is the sentiment to stop further commercialization.

[@babayaga8640]

That black tennis ball thing was ages ago though cuz Nürnberg was still in the Bundesliga 😂

[@Middagetten]

I thought it could be dortmund second team but Nuremberg aren’t in 3.liga

[@Zealandism]

I wanted to add one more video of things into the video and Twitter decided to give me something from 27 years ago apparently

[@Murtini2023]

Fully with the protesters on this. Keep fighting and eventually the DFL will have to have another vote and this time you'll win.

[@babayaga8640]

9:39 yes they are but there are presidents who have gone against the internal votes (Martin Kind, Hannover 96). In the case of Hannover the internal vote was against the investors but the president voted for the investment. Furthermore the fan scene is greatly against any investment from outside. The fear is that this sale to a foreign investor is that this is just the first step opening Pandora’s box ending up with investors like in the English system. And btw Evonik is a German company founded in Essen, Germany (ain’t no foreign investor)

[@jamesrexus8555]

"The stats in the back of the bag" Sir, i think your addiction is not chocolate turtles

[@alexanderschwarz242]

Hi Zealand greeting from germany. The main point fans are taking issue with is not even inverstors coming in it's how the vote took place. It was an anonymus Vote, wich caused the CEO's of the clubs to loose any accountabillity they have thowards their fans, taht voted for them. It is believed, for example that Hanover96 CEO voted in favor of the deal even though he was instructed to vote against. People are protesting to protect the spirit of 50+1 above all else

[@koenbobeldijk]

I feel like this video does not represent the reason why the fans are disturbing these matches enough. The media has not fairly covered the problems with voting and the will of fans. German fans are understandably very sceptical against big investments in footbal because they see fans get fucked over in Europe every week.

[@Rozmette]

To the argument that the fans put these people in charge is very weak since, everywhere where you vote on putting someone in charge it doesnt mean you will agree with everything they will do in the future, you dont see into future and peoples head of what they wanna actually do.

[@th3Tyk3]

Fuck investors, fuck greed, fuck capitalism.

[@thargoff]

Great video Zealand and many great comments to provide you and others another perspective. What I would add is: - The whole process before the first vote, and after, and now with the 2nd vote is still very much not transparent and unclear. And it didn't provide enough time for clubs to ask their members in many cases. As member assemblies are usually once a year, clubs couldn't necessarily gauge the opinion of their members. So, some times CEOs had to/could vote based on their own thoughts and not necessarily as members would have possibly wanted. The Hannover 96 situation has been described before. - The vote only allowed the DFL leaders to start negotiations. Any deal would be up to vote again, so nothing sure there. If there are issues, the "red lines" are breached, it could swing the other way again. - The DFL offering talks was just something to cover them but not a real open, honest approach to talks, at least in fan representative eyes. That's why "fig leaf" - only cover like on a classic statue. - The whole deal might mostly benefit the big clubs more than 2. Bundesliga teams, especially the smaller one's. There is already a big gap and it might just open wider. That's why resistance is very much mostly from smaller clubs (their leadership; almost all fans of all teams are against it). - Some clubs are already threatening the 50+1 or have exemptions, Bayer Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, then Hoffenheim, RB Leipzig. These are already examples in the German game how investors/owners can create an imbalanced playing field. When you then look to England, but also Spain (how the big clubs, although running on a socios model are still trying to just play catch up), and Italy (clubs full of debt), or France (a big TV deal that was cancelled caused a lot of issues they still feel today). - Fans fear the influence of investors, and the dependency from one owner/one entity. Look at all the HITC Sevens videos on ruined clubs in England and Europe, how bad owners can ruin a club and fans can't do much about it other then protest, while with the 50+1 there is at least some accountability. Having only one owner to depend on makes it up to luck. Good owner - lucky, bad owner - unlucky. But having the club in more hands makes it more stable. And bringing in an investor just feels like they go down the same path as those countries. Fans say that German football should not water this down because this is the unique selling point. And even so, look at Hertha (they had an investor and have one again...), Schalke (Gazprom money dependency cut off by the war plays a big part in their troubles), etc. So, the German game is not immune to it. These are some of the reasons why fans protest the investor. It is a symbol of going down the wrong path, just chasing money. Many of the hard core fans also are not in pursuit of ultimate success. Yes, they want to win, but not at all cost. If it means their club potentially goes out of existence due to a bad owner, they rather stay a bit smaller, but keep their club, that is so close to their heart, secure and alive and keep those running the club accountable. They are the opposite mostly of how many Newcastle fans reacted to the Saudi takeover.

[@marco0445]

Man Zealand, I love your videos. I get this channel is a bit more relaxed, but a bit more research would be appreciated🙏 Other comments have already pointed out the important arguments and situation. I hope next time you can delve into the fan perspective a bit deeper

[@meluwylol7529]

As a german fan, I have to disagree on this one for a few reasons (ofc, but hear me out :D). A very important point is you mentioning that all leaders voting for the investment are elected by the fans, as this is actually not true. The voting was "won" on the minimum of votes (they needed a 2 out of 3 majority and they got 24 out of 36). Within the 24, there are two specific instances in which the leaders actively went against the will of their own club, which was for Holstein Kiel (the person who has the position to declare the vote for them, idk how thats called, also has a job at dfl / dfb and financially benefits from voting yes, it is about 99% sure that he voted yes even though the club board did not tell him to) and most famous, hannover 96s Martin Kind, whom you might have heard of. He has been sponsoring hannover 96 for more than 20 years and now they dont want him anymore as he is too stubborn and hot-headed to lead their club, but due to an exception in the 50+2 rule they cant really get rid of him as a leader. Its confirmed he voted for yes even though the club board, literally, not the fans but the majority of the elected club-board, told him not to. Hannover 96 even released an official statement on their website against him, their own boss, where they said the club board did not approve of his vote and they request the DFB/DFL to repeat the vote, which is pretty crazy imo. Also, it adds to this feeling that the voting was secret and many clubs who voted for the deal never announced it, it just got confirmed because almost all the clubs who did not agree to the deal proclaimed they did not. This adds to the feeling that the clubs are doing shady deals since they are not open about it, which in my opinion they should be as they should represent the will of the fans supporting them. Furthermore, I think the perspective that it is "just a slight change" and you cannot tell for sure if there will be any further impact from the investor is way too naive considering the way the sport has developed in our timeline. Things like sporting events in saudi arabia and others started from minor changes to adapt more power to big companies and greed of football associations and it is actually way more likely that it will happen to get worse. We have already seen it in germany as well, since tv deals over the last years caused some games to be played on monday for more tv spots and therefore more money. Which is logical, because for a company to buy themselves into a market of tv rights needs to benefit, and they ofc want to push that by increasing markets (games in saudi arabia?) or increasing screentime (splitting matchdays?). The fans highly opposed this as they want the sport to be family-friendly and due to their on-going protests, monday matches were eliminated, which kind of proves their behavior right if you want to think it that way. It is also important to consider that since the deal is meant for "structuring the international marketing" of the clubs, it is structured to benefit the clubs that are richer and more successful already. For most bundesliga fans, trying hard to keep up with the prem on international level (which realistically, there is no shot to keep up with this madness, financially) is not as worth it as keeping suspense and competition within their own league. The 10 year FC Bayern run already damaged this. Whenever FC Bayern leaders or Watzke from BVB or other big bosses openly discussed on guaranteed CL spots or other big team supporting ideas, almost all fans, even many many Bayern and Dortmund fans always opposed those ideas, rather rooting for suspense in the bundesliga themselves and keeping it low on investors and modern ball epidemies. I think, other leagues like the premier league and their fans who would also wish for a more integer sport would be happy if they started protesting against the development of modern football when it was not too late yet. From where the premier league is right now, there is no way back without the bubble bursting, and people to powerful have no interest in letting that happen. The bundesliga in comparison still is very down to earth and as long as those kind of changes are still slight and weak, you have the best odds to keep them moderate. I hope the protest continues as long as necessary to show the DFB and DFL that their financial benefits will not be defeating the spirit of football as the "sport available for everyone" entirely. Of course this has already started to happen, but better now than never, there is still some work to do.

[@nickname123321]

The examples you bring up of La Liga clubs going to SA, Premier League clubs playing in the USA, is exactly what the German fans want to avoid.

[@bumblepiggi]

Selling the media revenue just doesn’t benefit the clubs and the fans enough to justify it. A lot of the money gets reinvested into the Bundesliga, like stadiums and things, but only some gets given back to the clubs. Fans don’t care enough about the Bundesliga’s international presence to want foreign investments coming in and taking away some of their clubs revenue

[@DobsonDC]

"The meeting was a fig leaf" - a thing intended to conceal a difficulty or embarrassment

[@thehellyousay]

once the corporate devil gets a toe in the door ...

[@crobias]

security trying to get the car bit was jokes

[@Faynwulf]

Rare Zealand L. But I guess no one can hit 100% out of the park.

[@SamHartles]

not me thinking the steward kicking the remote controlled cars at the Bochum game in the thumbnail was wayne rooney

[@gerdokurt]

Evonik Industries isnt a foreign investor, and they are not based in new jersey. The company is whats left from the coal mining industry in Ruhrpott, bundled together. It`s a deep cultural and monetary connection rooting back to the very beginning of the cities and the club(s) .It`s like GM having a stake in a detroit team.

[@safcjcp]

I’m with the fans on this one, the german model needs to be expanded across the world

[@snej1893]

As others have said, you are unfortunately missing one of the key points why people are protesting. I don't think they're necessarily protesting against the decision to give the DFL board the mandate to negotiate and close a deal that involves selling 8% of its media rights, but rather the following points a) the fact that the sale of media rights was put to a vote again so shortly after their initial proposal getting rejected in May (although admittedly the distribution of the money was way different under that proposal, which ultimately caused it to fail, b) the fact that the fans were largely ignored in the decision making process and not involved at all and no effort was made to explain why this (investor) model was the preferred one (as compared to raising the funds from a bank loan or finding a way to fund this from the club's general income, c) no effort was made to explain what the funds were going to be used for or why this was deemed necessary and d) the fact that they decided to make this a secret vote, which passed with the just 2/3 majority required. And this is where your point that the elected officials cast the vote in place of the club members comes in, as it's just not true. The Hannover 96 e.V. mandated the person (Martin Kind) casting the vote on behalf of the majority owner, the Hannover 96 e.V., to vote no and it by all means seems like he cast the decisive vote in favor of passing the deal against the wishes of the H96 e.V. In Stuttgart's case the e.V. owns approx 75% of the AG, but only has the head of the supervisory board representing its interests and the board of the AG made the decision to vote yes this time after initially voting no in May. I think we have 3 processes here: The need to raise capital to evolve the business model, the source you raise that capital from and the way you intend to use the capital and people were never given much explanation for steps 2+3 and people demand more involvement there.

[@redcyy]

my aunt who lives in america, when she visited us made homemade chocolate turtles and they slapped so hard

[@itmkoeln]

At the Dortmund game they were writing: NEIN zu Investoren in der DFL. Which is No, to investors in the DFL (DFL being the association that regulates TV rights for all professional clubs in Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga).

[@mikeschalkx5171]

I dont know why, but the fact he says Pippin and Merry instead of Merry and Pippin make me so irrationally uncomfortable

[@alexflame9383]

chocolate turtles 😭😭💀💀

[@lukasprobst7200]

What you are saying is basically right but requires more clarification. The key issue is what happened in the last round of voting. The DFL tried to force the sale of the TV revenues through with the anonymous vote. It is more or less confirmed that Martin Kind, CEO of the company that runs the Hannover 96 professional team, voted against the mandate given by the fans through the 50+1 rule (The fans voted No to the sale, All other clubs have clarified how they voted, This would be the swing vote). This would nullify the result, but the DFL is saying since it was anonymous they cant know that he really did what hes being accused of. This in combination with the precedent that this sets and continued attacks on german fanbases and fan culture through the DFL and the german state over the past couple years is what has sparked this level of anger.

[@SamButler22]

Eats an unfathomable amount of chocolate, talks about bouncing back. Are you Alan Partridge?

[@steelblink]

All the clubs who opposed it, released their intent for the vote before the vote happened. If you count those, there is a big surprise: The deal would NOT have gone through! Which means that ONE club president (Martin Kind, Hannover 96) voted AGAINST the order of his club in the anonymous vote (and yes, it came down to that SINGLE vote). THAT is why everyone is so mad.

[@Cryspycrazy]

You obviously cant view the whole picture cause youve only seen english articles about it but the 8% are not the huge problem. It's the way how some of the 36 CEO's try to get this thing through.. Today even german tv broadcasted a whole discussion wich basically made every point clear, Martin Kind is the prime example of an egocentric CEO who likes the smell of money to much and he gave an absolute no show in "Hart aber Fair" today. I think many of us german fans would love to explain the whole thing to you in detail. Grüße aus Magdeburg

[@rockerfarm6445]

okay, there seem to be a couple of misunderstnadings going on here so I'll try to explain some things: first of all, the CEOs should've voted on behalf of the club but there are at least a few CEOs that had to disregard their clubs stances for this outcome of the vote. And for that reason they closed the vote to the public so they couldn't be held accountable which is shady at least maybe even illegal, we'll see about that. It's not just about the media rights as well, it's about what'll happen with the money as well as the concern that any investor will of course want to have insurances for their investment and take influence. Also this happens during a period that 50+1 is at risk because the CEOs have vested interests from the clubs and constructs like Leipzig and Hoffenheim undermine 50+1. I know it seems unreasonable to many foreigners because they are used to corporate bullshit but we don't want this. If they wanna invest let them do it in other countries, especially as many great german clubs from the past suffered from investors and got left in financial ruin. The best analogy I have is this: 50+1 is like the political system of democracy, you have to fight to keep it going and in a healthy state, if you don't do it it'll get corrupted.

[@rhunl]

I thought my parents had accepted my bachelorhood easily when they knew that every birthday all I wanted was a pre-order of FM for that year. Sending Valentine's care packages is next level parenting of an FM addict.

[@rhunl]

To get through that many that quickly, I assume they were soft-shell turtles.

[@Raptorsified]

As a bochum fan it's nice at least we make the cycle yearly from beating bayern and having something happen in the stands. Hopefully we can stay up to give another headline next year.

[@Dr_Baphomet]

Hey Z, a lot has been said already but I also want to mention 1 point: Among a lot of passionate and hardcore fans there is a growing sentiment which is: "Why do we need to keep up/reach the level of the premier league?" Tons of spokesmen from the DFL and DFB keep mentioning that the Premier League is so far ahead and if we don't keep up we will fall behind internationally, which is why they seek foreign investment deals and such. However they don't seem to realize that we will never reach the Premier League in terms of accessibility because German is not as widespread a langauge as English is and IMHO chasing the glory and money of the champions league is a fight we can't win. A lot of fans, myself included don't care if we will fall behind internationally, as long as we can keep going to the matches at affordable prices and the 50+1 rule remains as is.

[@MrMarkimark24]

With the fans on this. It's a competition not a content item/asset. It is also tough for me as I'd love to watch more (from UK) but not at the cost of changing what the Bundesliga is

[@brownie62]

The point of the whole protest is so that in the future the league won‘t for example does seperate kickoff times and stuff. Because if you open up now to investors who don’t value the german football culture, then over time this culture starts to crack and break with each new investor deal/investment and the Bundesliga will lose it’s unique fan experience. I hope that was clear.

[@samuelhuff4489]

Theres no such thing as a Man City? Laughs in RB Leipzig, Tsv Hoffenheim, Bayer Leverkusen and VfL Wolfsburg

[@kaiyfm]

Hey Zealand, first i want to tell you that i like your content, but since you said you dont really understand the protest i thought i help to enlight you. I have more of an inside view since i´m one of the 90.000 Members of my Club VfB Stuttgart that also had a season ticket and was also in the away section of the Stadium when some the protests happend, some of my friends are even part of the active protest. The protest ist not against Investors in general, the fans and the active support ( the ultras) know very well that you need to make money to compete. There are 3 main Problems with this one tho. 1. The Mistrust in the DFL 2. the undemocratic way the election was done 3, The Investor (CVC) itself. 1. The DFL: 8% of the marketing rights doesnt sound like a lot, but only on first sight. CVC is a private equity company, their only goal is to make more money. If the DFL wont make enough money from foreign marketing, CVC willl put pressure on the DFL to make more. Due to the "veto clause on important decisions" which is said to be in the contract , they will at the end of the day have an influence on thnings like kick off times and playing matches in other countries. Now the the DFL says those things are a red line that wont be crossed and CVC wont have a say on that. The point now is that the Fans dont trust the DFL and their "Red line" statement, because they broke their word before. The DFL let parasites like Hoffenheim and Red Bull Leipzig in our league and broke 50+1 with that. The Fans of course never forget that major crossing of the "red line" and lost all their Trust in the DFL. 2.Undemocratic Election: The first election was held in April last year were the clubs voted NO. So the DFL held a new one in December where they got the result they wanted. The short time between the two election was on purpose so the clubs werent able to have an election at their own member assemble. Only a couple of clubs had the chance to ask their members because their member assembles coincidently fell in the time between April and December, (all of these clubs voted NO btw. But the biggest problem was the case Hannover 96 and their CEO Martin Kind, ( a guy openly against 50+1). The memebers of Hannover 96 voted aganist the Investors at their member assemble. The CEO Martin Kind was send to the DFL elections with the mission to vote NO for his club Hannover 96. But he voted against the interest of his club and the Members with YES. This vote was the decider in the election, without the vote the DFL woudnt have got the 2/3 majority that they needed. The behavior of Martin Kind is against the 50+1 Rule because he didnt vote in the clubs interest but in his own intrest.(just btw, He is against 50+1 because he wants to invest his own Money in the club, which he is not allowed) So 50+1 was broken 3.CVC: CVC is is a foreign private equity company that is invested in beeting companies (60% at Tipico) which are most fans against. Many of our clubs, mine as well, takes money from betting companies which we all hate. But the biggest problem is that Saudi Arabia is investet in CVC. The german fans dont want Saudi Money in our League, and that is not depatable. Nice Stream today tho ciao from Stuttgart, we play Champions League next year

[@ReSunDestin]

Because of your title I expected to find "this is the greatest crazy situation of all time" in the description

[@MysteryInc01]

Bro that packet would have been finished the first day

[@SirEEf13]

From what I've gotten from German youtubers they are also really worried about the wording. Apparently, what is planned, is not exactly spelled out directly and a lot of ambiguous language is used. They are worried that they might be signing up to something they don't want.

[@The04Damian]

Farewell chocolate turtles

[@YevOnegin]

On the fans' side on this one, I only wish they'd be even more difficult. Germany's rules are the only thing stopping it from turning into a money whoring trainwreck like here, or even worse the Prem, and this is the first baby step to changing that. Still annoyed about 2019 and Italian fans being expected to travel to Saudi, to watch Italian clubs play for an Italian trophy, then Juventus coming out with their shirt names in Arabic like the bootlickers they are. When I look over at Valencia and whats happened to them, Everton to an extent, all I can imagine is the chaos if this had been 50 years ago. I can see the stadiums actually being burnt down in protest. There is no way they would have stood for this, so good on the Germans for stepping in and being a nuisance before the problem becomes unsolveable.

[@serwangahenry4554]

Well it is inevitable the money will come and life will go on

[@andsimon27]

Bro, educate yourself how the vote happend. You say you don't know the politics and its also a lot about the politics. Don't push the one sided media agenda.

[@EnigmaSwiss]

I am just a dude in a room too, but I get your point.

[@PeteSweeet]

too much green to feel blue

[@kapitanvollsuff6672]

The big question I have is, how do they get these inside the Stadium? Aren't there any people to control them? And if there are, how does this conversation look like? "What do you have there?" "That's just 1000 black tennis balls." "And what do you need them for?" "To play 1000 matches of tennis." "Ok, you are good to go to the Bundesliga game."

[@nicop.7805]

German fans are very good in smuggeling things into the stadium, flares are not allowed in stadiums and you see them all the time. You tape stuff to your body, hide it in rolled up banners, etc. Rarlely they even strom the stadium gates.

[@reinrassigerStuhl]

I assume the clubs themselves know how important the ultras are for their atmosphere, therefore they kind of tolerate all that stuff being smuggled into the stadium. The ultras mostly know how to behave and don't push it too far. Nobody cares if they only bring in some bengalos and tennis balls as long as it isn't something actually dangerous.

[@satyakibiswas5315]

Not a Bundesliga watcher but I think fans are doing the right thing here, earlier Laliga presi Javier Tebas did the same and it turned out the CVC deal was a scam.

[@MikesGigDiary__]

Stop looking at these clubs as franchises that exist to make money. The fans of SV Elversberg, for example, don't give a damn about their club being marketed in the States, they just want a football club that represents their town and their people.

[@Drigallski]

also nice that you say "Bayern losing is a good thing" Nowadays we always mourn over old traditional clubs like Schalke, Hamburg and their decline and wish for them to be big once again one day. But i feel like if Bayern was ever relegated to the third tier in germany, no one outside of their fans would care for them, but rather feel refreshed by them rotting in hell

[@adarbarrush]

What I find funny is, for example, volkswagen owns 3 teams in thrle bundesliga, audi ,Adidas and allianz fund bayern munich, not to mention rb leipzig by red bull, 1860 munich are 60% owned by a company, but the problem germans have isn't someone investing and funding their club ,like with hoffenheim as well,its that its made public. I go visit a friend who lives in hamburg and we go to many stadiums in northern Germany, and we said this to german fans- if you're against investors, why do all your clubs have companies with shares in their clubs and when was the last time they went to a club meeting to make decisions for the clubs future...all of them replied that they pay and vote for someone else to do that work for them, to which I replied ,so you're ok with outside people running your club and making every decision for you and selling club shares to companies as long as they lie to you and keep the 50+1 rule ,even thought you have no say in the how the club is ran

[@JohnDoe-xz1mw]

There is a strong sence in germany of "wehret den anfängen" (beware of/fight the beginnings) before they get to big and are harder to fight, and the reason all the other leagues are doing this and you can see where it leads is precisly why germans fight it. i have to say i completely understand being against this and the protests and im not even german. you hit your first miss there green zealand. ps: i might not be german but my fm safe is in germany so i feel like i have skin in the game here :P

[@PRyder-eb4qi]

Those fans arent protesting against the investor. They are protesting bcuz on how the secret vote was done. The lack of transparency of the vote and a possible false vote of martin kind, club president of hannover 96 are the main reasons for the protesting. Another thing is that german fan culture isnt about buying the biggest stars, its about the fan culture. Even tho ticket prizes are getting higher and higher ppl are able afford those tickets unlike to the premier league . This fan culture is what makea the bundesliga unique in the top 5 leagues. We dont need a club which will win the CL every year. We want a good access to out favorite sport which we value so much . Maybe it is difficult to understand as an American. Without the fans in the stadium the whole experience wouldnt be the same. PS: CVC is a horrible investor and is already destroying league 1 in france and almost destroyed formula 1 but thats another topic

[@christopherlenz6744]

Plenty of comments already about how you missed a huge part of this, so I'll just add this tiny bit: Most clubs in Germany don't care how competitive Bayern are in the Champions League. In fact only one club does... Bayern.

[@iansmith5911]

Nobody tell him about the sea salt chocolate turtles…

[@laloboomin0291]

"the stats on the back" HAHAH

[@Drigallski]

the reason why clubs abstained is because they do not want to get murdered by crazy hooligans.

[@Hailerer2602]

The investor has ties to Saudi Arabia. To Sportswashing. That was a major point. Also, look at the english fan culture today and compare it to 30 years ago... thats what we fear.

[@anardi7112]

Turtles are goated but they're an old man candy.

[@jasminneitzel9067]

It is about precedent and principles. Also the circumstances of the decision being very shady in regards to 50+1, like there is a whole lawsuit hanging over this and it passed with just the one vote . A fig leave is like a very symbolic excuse. Comes from renaissance art and the story of adam and eve. It is those little leaves covering genitalia in old paintings and also the shame of the original sin. So basically something that is just there to serve as a convenient cover, while everyone knows whats up. It is not clothing, it is noth a solution, it is just a fig leave, they are still basically naked.

[@gpolonia]

They are protesting because it's pretty much Barcelona light

[@BdnjmDBz]

thats nothing bro I could eat that whole bag in an hour...

[@useyowords9745]

RB Leipzig existing shows what happens when you give an inch

[@meinarnia5401]

Zealand, I‘ve got big respect for you. I‘m watching your Videos for years and love them so much. As a german football fan, I think Fans of other leagues don‘t understand this, really. German Football Culture is Different. We‘ve got 50+1, fans should make the choices in the Clubs. And DFL just changed Minor things to make another vote. Some clubs send their people there to say „no“. But because of the anonymous vote they voted yes. We know this, because everyone who said „No“ outed themselves. The biggest fear of german fans is that in the end, we‘ll lose 50+1. Sorry to every other Fan, but we hate plastic clubs like the energy drink, Man City or PSG. It‘s strictly against the german way of Football.

[@calvin_geo]

We feelin greeeen

[@jaggillarananas2618]

We also have the 51% rule in Sweden

[@thehellyousay]

turtles come in big bags?

[@anardi7112]

Not big enough tbf

[@meetsindhav8153]

I just dont think they want to change anything. If things are going good for them, as in for local fans, why would they just give money to mix up things, which may even go downhill?

[@shaneoshea9984]

Color code the lights depending on the shirt you are wearing.

[@camero3266]

Hope you’ll do a part 2 after reading the comments

[@Hans8341]

It will be the first brick fell from the stone keep, once the sweet quick money gets in then sooner or later the rest of share will be consered sellable. The other league doing this way do not mean this is the only way to solve a fiancial problem. Selling future profit sounds great just because some people are lazy and some people are greedy.

[@MrBunney91]

If you allow this to happen, where does it stop?

[@bipolarminddroppings]

I would have been eating those all game. I fucking love chocolate coins!!!!! My favourite chocolate!!!!!

[@benjohnson4670]

You should make these into podcasts!

[@spagoot]

wish fans did this in england

[@Marex5341]

Why?All i see is happy fans,happy owners and a rich developed league

[@spagoot]

@@Marex5341 havent been looking at sheffield wendsday then have you

[@TheModmc]

if you give an inch they take a yard. we have some experience from back when dfl was founded. we dont want our leagues to become even more of a shitshow tbh

[@necii]

The fans still also feell they didnt get a say the whole point if 50+1 is that the fans get a say yet the clubs never asked the fans just because they are elected doesn't mean we should hold them accountable really

[@necii]

I mean we in the discussion of the fans (I don't live in Germany) but it's the feeling that the fans have been ignored

[@StandardRossoneri]

RUNNNNNNNN NOWWWWWWW

[@MrJorge3010]

What's Wayne Rooney doing in the thumbnail?

[@nabri-nfg3262]

I like turtles too

[@SamButler22]

How do you sell your revenue? What does that even mean?

[@GamesofSchill]

since you know knew more things you should make a second vid about it

[@pranikislive]

bro saying they've voted the CEO is like people don't protest against the people they've voted to win. moreover there are people who dont vote for them to be the CEO and they do win. what about them. let bundesliga be germany, i am with the protestors. bundesliga doesn't need billions of cash, with its support of fans bundesliga is already powerful on their own. we are not broke like english clubs whose top clubs asking for saudi or quatari investors. and they also dont want any cup games to be in anywhere where they have to spend tons of money to watch, bundesliga is for the people.

[@touch2start]

People just hate change

[@TehHagen]

worst take in this comment section

[@akunwanneprosper7016]

Bayern laughing Barca for selling levers when their top and 2nd division are desperate to do so

[@hansijawns]

Zealand straight up made this channel for the worst takes possible, so he wouldn't have to post them on his main 😂

[@insomniadeck6263]

how much did the turtles pay you?

[@justaguyraging]

Sorry, thats a first dislike on this channel for me (even though dislikes dont do shit anyway). I know this channel is for less research/editorial heavy videos, but speaking to german fans would have helped massively to understand that the deal itself is not the problem we are protesting about. That said, scheiß DFL

[@user-mu1xb3rs5f]

Yoou remind me of Penguin0