THIS Would Be the End of the ACC! | Conference Realignment

THIS Would Be the End of the ACC! | Conference Realignment
In this college football video about conference expansion, Couz is joined by T.J. from the ‪@DoubleFriesNoSlaw‬ podcast. They will discuss a potential strategy for Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina and Miami to get out of the ACC and move to the SEC or the Big Ten. T.J. will explain how other schools in the conference could also leave and go to the Big 12 or the PAC-12. Will the Florida State Seminoles end up in the SEC? What conference would the Clemson Tigers and Miami Hurricanes go to? What schools would join the Big 12 Conference? Also, what is a speculated timeframe when this could take place? Couz & T.J. answer all these questions and more in the video. #conferencerealignment #gonoles #floridastatefootball #clemsonfootball
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[@DoubleFriesNoSlaw]

Appreciate you having me, Couz! Great convo as always.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Absolutely

[@KNIGHT-T1ME]

It just blows my mind to even think of the ACC breaking up.

[@rodnixx7074]

Another solid presentation Couz. It's just a matter of time before the ACC as we know it is done. I just do not see a path for ESPN to close the increasing gap in revenue over the next three to five years. Also, the potential ending of the ND deal with NBC can not be underestimated here. Finally, the CFP expansion and the revenue gains assumed there will force changes. The clock is ticking a little louder each day.

[@johnmandock56]

Notre Dame will end up in the Big ten, ACC conference is terrible.

[@necromancerpinball569]

Big XII has to be ready to snap up Pitt, Va Tech, and Louisville if the ACC breaks up. Would be nice to get GA Tech also.

[@usmc-veteran73-77]

Yes we need all those former Big East Teams in the Big XII. If that would happen I would be very, very happy. Plenty teams in the East of the new Big XII

[@hummushero9428]

I think the Big Ten would Be happy to add Ga Tech, they have tremendous academics, good football history, and give them a school in one of the most fertile recruiting regions nationwide.

[@tarheel7406]

@@hummushero9428 I'd say that GATECH is the 4th priority ACC target for the B1G

[@hummushero9428]

@@tarheel7406 I think they should take them over everyone but UNC, UVA, and FSU. Clemson doesn’t have the academics the conference likes but obviously they are the best program currently, not sure about Miami. It may not come down to who is the first choice of the Big Ten, it may be a decision these schools make between the SEC and B1G if they have open invites to both.

[@tarheel7406]

@@hummushero9428 "I think they should take them over everyone but UNC, UVA, and FSU." Hence the 4th priority.

[@igotthekeiskeithmoore4719]

I think the four teams will go to the SEC and the other four will go to the Big Ten. That's simple and straight to the point

[@ReisterJP]

The G&B dude would have been all over this. RIP thick skin.

[@lukebart920]

For sure .... Fly high GBD

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Definitely

[@tj3501]

He would for sure. Miss him.

[@CharlesFosterMalloy]

Speculation Zone !!!

[@keahilanil3469]

ESPN has at least 150 million reasons a year why they won't let the ACC dissolve. After Comcast added the ACC Network, it earns at least $300 million a year in carriage fees and ad revenue which is split 50/50 between the network and the conference. So that's $2 billion to ESPN till the end of the ACC contract. For a company going thru a lot of headline making cost saving moves lately, they're not letting that happen.

[@roris5882]

ESPN probably isn't willing to pay the difference of the ACC and the Super 2 Conferences to FSU, Miami, UNC, Clemson, and ND. Plus the others will also have their hands out. So it's more cost effective for the profitable ACC members to blow it up so they can join a Super 2 Conference to make a lot more revenue. If they join the B1G they will also be making a lot more for their academics. ESPN can't pay them close to what they would make in the Super 2 because the ACC isn't as valuable because it's a weak football conference and most of it's members have smaller fan bases.

[@tarheel7406]

@@roris5882 Again, conference affiliation has no effect on academic revenue outside of causing a culture/mission change. The only big winners from an ACC scatter are the B1G and FOX.

[@keahilanil3469]

@@roris5882Your reply provided zero answers regarding the huge financial reasons ESPN has to keep the conference together till 2036. Schools aren't going to leave without having a landing spot and there won't be 8 spots without commissioners and presidents working in cahoots, illegally.

[@roris5882]

@@keahilanil3469 It's not up to ESPN where the schools choose to go. The only control they have over the ACC is to voluntarily pay them more which sounds ridiculous.

[@keahilanil3469]

@@roris5882 media deals, like the one the ACC has with ESPN, dictate the timeline. It's not a coincidence that the moves Nebraska, Maryland, USC, UCLA, Colorado, Missouri, Texas, and OU made were near the end of their former conference's media contract. And last time I checked, the one the ACC has with ESPN is a long way from expiring. Good tales you tell though.

[@jeffmorgan9337]

Fantastic job most entertaining. Good stuff .

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Thanks, Jeff.

[@tarheel7406]

a) The general understanding is that ND does have a vote since it's a vote to dissolve not repeal the GOR. Likely doesn't matter since 8 of 14 or 8 of 15 is still a majority. ND is likely the 9th vote, but not the 8th. The guest is wrong here. b) Unless an actual dissolution is needed to escape the GOR, a threat should suffice to force a settlement. The difference is important. c) The ACC already being at Tier 2 revenue and the pro rata clause has removed the BIG12 as a factor regarding the ACC's situation. ESPN is not going to deviate from the pro rata to help the depletion of the ACC. The guest is wrong here as well. d) The BIG12 is a destination of last resort, The top 4 won't/can't pay another 4 to go there. The Top 4 would have a strong case for litigation and settlement, which would be better for all. A then 10-team ACC is viable, would be worth no less if not better than the new BIG12, and regionality/branding is retained. (The 4 would likely be CLEMSON, FSU, UNC and UVA (not MIAMI)). e) The PAC situation is all the evidence one needs to predict that a depleted ACC is more likely to rebuild than fully scatter. The ACC could fully scatter, but the guest is likely wrong here as well. There is no reason to think that a rebuilt Tier 2 ACC wouldn't be worth the same as the tier 2 new BIG12. f) Assuming the ACC "only" lost CLEMSON, FSU, UNC & MIAMI, that leaves a viable 10 team Tier 2 ACC that's peer with the new BIG12 and PAC. The reality is that the current ACC is already at Tier 2 revenue, so it can sustain high depletion before dropping below that existing figure. I will add that if the guest represents FSU accurately and thinks that academic minded schools would readily abandon that branding, FSU has no business in the B1G as many fans claim. Clearly a homer than considers FSU indispensable to even Tier 2 survival. The graveyards are full of indispensable men. g) MIAMI's leverage is way overvalued. The SEC and B1G take UVA and likely others before MIAMI.

[@craigkirsch6750]

Never understood why so many think Miami has a landing spot in the B1G or SEC, they don't. A depleted ACC is only worth what ESPN is willing to pay. The PAC has found out the hard way that they are only worth 150 million or 15 per school according to ESPN and Fox, which was their final offer. That may be the amount the 10 remaining ACC schools would get from ESPN also. Why keep BC, Wake Forest, Syracuse and even Duke around. ESPN can cut them loose and save a ton of money and then move Miami, NC St, VT, and Louisville to the Big 12. Pitt and Georgia Tech can go to the American on the cheap for ESPN.

[@tarheel7406]

@@craigkirsch6750 The PAC was worth so low because the BIG12 took the deal that the PAC earlier rejected ~and~ the ACC already had a deal, leaving low demand for additional P5 content given the space available. The assumption is that a rebuilt Tier 2 ACC will be worth peer with the already Tier 2 BIG12. This is an older vid and there have been relevant recent events since (the +3), so my position is even more supported. The guest has very little standing to analyze or critical thinking.

[@moffprof02]

Couz. Getting it done on a great video. Thanks for the info and different angles, Double fry

[@blueridgecoffeecrafters4486]

Great Show Couz...

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Thank you.

[@knumbskullnews3460]

This is amazing. Couz is killing it.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Thanks bro. Have to give TJ credit on this one. It was his data.

[@Veretax]

There's a bigger problem here because ESPN has been hemorrhaging money. These moves don't happen if ESPN suddenly can't live up to its contract because it will be no money available. I understand the math argument here you trade current deficit for future gain. But in this inflationary times we don't know what's going to happen it's entirely possible that Revenue reductions now may preamp something more than what you're talking about

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Great points. As for ESPN, I think they are making cost cutting moves so they can live up to contractual obligations.

[@tarheel7406]

A business can't really cut what it sells. It can only cut the costs that support what's sold unless rebranding to a lower quality seller. ESPN may already be at risk of being accused of breach by the ACC due to insufficient marketing efforts and lower production for the ACCN.

[@opeydedon2279]

i have been involved with companies that had layoffs and then turned around and acquired a company or bought things from other companies to expand there reach. it sucks but companies dont have money for employees but they have monies for expanding.

[@CharlesFosterMalloy]

The best Big12 type schools in the ACC: Va Tech Pitt Louisville NCSt MIA Ga Tech Syracuse Duke ? Wake ?

[@OutlawCollegeFootball]

I been saying this for awhile. Where's there's a will there's a loop hole when it comes to college football expansion and realignment

[@roris5882]

Yup, money is usually undefeated in business.

[@tarheel7406]

"Show me the man and I'll show you the crime" said an advisor to Stalin. Off topic but came to mind.

[@jeremycroy6061]

Very good and interesting video Couz!

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Thanks.

[@BuffalOKstate]

Great video! Interesting info

[@dfausti66]

It looks like the most simple and least expensive way for schools to leave the ACC is through a super-majority vote. With conference realignment taking place, it appears to be the most feasible effort.

[@tarheel7406]

Simple majority

[@terencebaca1990]

Eight votes. Simple majority.

[@timbruchmiller1042]

B10 wants Virginia, they offered to UVA instead of Maryland

[@VincentPaterno-hs2fv]

Once Maryland became available to the B1G and UVa said no, Rutgers entered the picture.

[@roris5882]

They may have wanted UVA but FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, and ND add more revenue to their TV deal. FSU and Miami want to get AAU certified and access to the B1G's academic resources and influence can help them get it done. If Clemson wants to improve their academics, like FSU and Miami, the B1G can help them make a lot more money from their academics and research also.

[@darylharlow7476]

The B1G is not getting all of those schools. Both the B1G and SEC want to get into Virginia and North Carolina. Virginia adds another strong basketball brand and their athletic department minus football competes for national titles on a consistent basis.

[@tarheel7406]

It's my understanding that UVA, UNC & GATECH had all passed prior to the B1G eventually settling for MD & RUT.

[@tarheel7406]

@@darylharlow7476 The most impactful fight will be over the UVA/UNC package. Determines how deep and effective a B1G run south would be or if the SEC prevents that effective run. It's the nature and location of the two flags.

[@tomthatcher7757]

Good show 👏 Very informative. Thanks 😊

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Thanks for watching

[@twmoreh]

Great information, thank you both for the episode. As a Clemson and College Football fan, I want the best for the game. Unfortunately, I think money, media markets, and subscription possibilities will be more important factors to the people making the final decision than academics, student athletes, and good football. Personally, I have no inside information as y'all do, I think Clemson has waited too late, Big 10 wants to expand into Florida and takes Miami and FSU, also to move up east coast (population and media markets) grabs UNC and another - maybe Virginia. Clemson and several others from ACC could go with 'four corner schools' from out west to make Big 12 the biggest, nationwide conference. (SEC has no need to grab any of these to gain new markets - maybe would grab an NC State to move into NC, meh) I would rather something else happen. We will see. Thanks again guys.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Great comment. I don’t necessarily foresee this scenario happening, but you never know. Thanks for watching.

[@CharlesFosterMalloy]

If the projected numbers are right (and I have serous doubts that they are - since Big12 has a 6 year contract starting in 2025, so it's done in 2031, so the Big12 revenues thereafter are bogus, inter alia), but if valid estimates, then there would be no rush to terminate ACC whatsoever. The ACC's TV numbers are supposedly $17million per team per year. The rest is standard extras, plus a portion of the ACC Network profits... that's really the wild card here, the unknown. But if the ACC is projected to overtake the Big12 in 3 years, why screw up a good thing ? Also, simply voting to disband does not get you out of the liability to ESPN. The ACC and it's partner member schools are still liable to ESPN, who surely has an assignment of the GOR to secure performance. The way FSU and UNC are behaving - there's no way those projections are valid.

[@CharlesFosterMalloy]

So towards the end of the video you do State that you are working with old Big12 numbers. So that's at least part of the problem with the projections.

[@tarheel7406]

a) ACC projections are limited to good faith due to the age of the deal. Actual media value per team is limited to good faith estimates as well. b) The new BIG12's reported deal only increased ~$0-5M per after losing TX/OK, the additions, inflation, and adding in Tier 3 rights. This and the pro rata clause make this known figure rather reliable through any reasonable timeframe. c) When analyzing ACC depletion risks, the new BIG12's Tier 2 revenue isn't the applicable benchmark. It's the SEC/B1G. d) A dissolution threat (or especially an actual dissolution) would end with the voiding of all relevant contracts if opted by the parties. These are not-for-profits and would likely work as a bankruptcy. Courts are hostile to economic waste and other public policy concerns. ESPN would likely have the option to void, keep or renegotiate.

[@graysonganoosh2437]

$17 mil from the start of the 20 year contract that began in 2016. It ramps up significantly as the contract matures and compared to other media deals, the backend increases are relatively high.

[@tarheel7406]

@@graysonganoosh2437 No one has really explained how the "look ins" work. Are there objective metrics for escalators or are they entirely good faith? I've had to use good faith estimates and third-party projections. Regardless, unless evidenced otherwise, it appears that the ACC deal will pay more than the BIG12's reported deal but not enough to sate the ACC teams with options. Otherwise, we would not be heating as much noise. ESPN is likely to increase as needed to keep the B1G12 from paying enough to attract dissolution votes.

[@CharlesFosterMalloy]

@@graysonganoosh2437 I had never heard or read that. If so, then the ACC is less likely to totally blow up, especially if the schools that leave pay major kickbacks to the conference. ACC could add SMU, Tulane, USF, Memphis, "right off the bat, kinda like Covid," and look at a few others as well, perhaps, but certainly those 4. UT-SA and Rice would be good adds, as would FAU, ECU, maybe UAB or Temple or Marshall or Tulsa or La Tech or Troy or maybe Liberty or JMU, Coastal Carolina, or Charlotte. They have tons of options, teams ready to be built up. All those schools are on the rise, Temple being most questionable.

[@CreightonRabs]

It would be hard to have Chapel Hill moving to another conference without Duke. I'd think that Duke might be have to go with UNC as part of a package, especially considering how huge the ratings are for basketball. So, there's five (UNC, FSU, Clemson, Miami, Duke - maybe six if you want to include Virginia) likely to move, plus several potential Big 12 targets (some combination of Pitt, Virginia Tech, Louisville, Georgia Tech, NC State and - maybe - Wake Forest). As for Syracuse and BC .... enjoy the 'Merican Athletic Conference. Worst case for Notre Dame: if the ACC dissolves and the B1G closes the door on adding the Irish, there's always the Big East, reuniting them with a lot of their old rivals.

[@tarheel7406]

DUKE is a coattail effort, not a demand

[@VincentPaterno-hs2fv]

@@tarheel7406 And I see UVa as a UNC partner, not Duke. The Cavs and Tar Heels are longtime rivals.

[@tarheel7406]

@@VincentPaterno-hs2fv Been saying as much since Day 1 of this almost 2-year story. UVA may split with UNC and go B1G while UNC goes SEC, but I'm betting that UVA sticks with UNC no matter north or south. MD is a cautionary tale. The chances of DUKE being coattailed are rather strong anyway, especially if we're heading to 24 each.

[@blackreacher]

Not sure the rivalry would last if they move to another conference, it's an ACC rivalry. They would be better off waiting on a super league to form, maybe like NFL and NBA

[@tarheel7406]

@@blackreacher Again, if we are heading to a 24-each SEC and B1G for a closed Tier 1, DUKE is a rather safe coattail by UVA/UNC. The UNC/DUKE games are perhaps the only non-football annuals that get the large, consistent viewership numbers for which the broadcasters look. Moreover, that rivalry is of national interest.

[@HunterGuy558]

Do you think a team could leave the ACC and pay that kinda money but make it back in a decent amount of time? Or do you think there's no way in hell they could pull that off?

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Barring some sort of settlement, or lawsuit that gets them out of the GoR, dissolution of the league is the only thing I see getting them out.

[@tarheel7406]

@@CouzsCornerSports Yes, in a nutshell

[@michaelwall3393]

@@tarheel7406 Frito Pie for an extra early dinner and @Couz’s Corner on a Tuesday afternoon doesn’t get any better. Now on to my points. Everyone notice that these numbers presented are similar or identical to Mark Rogers, Tony Altimore, Marchand’s, Forbes, SBJ, and others numbers and not biased-driven towards any particular conference. I understand the short term financial impact and differential payments; but in the long term, it truly would behoove the ACC to calm itself down and stay together. By the way; the ACC and Big12 numbers financially speaking are damn near ironclad and hard as granite. The PAC12 not quite. All this bull corn about Big12 being third best conference financially and in sports are just that: bull crap! The PAC12 projections are possibly In speculation assuming that their new media deal is same or most likely lower than Big12 to much lower but still think it’s hovering at $25mil per team even with two expansion schools in SDSU and SMU. If ACC schools will just pump the brakes and realize that grass over on the Big12 pasture is not greener than they currently have or will have in the ACC. Now PAC12 and AAC are different stories; as is MWC. But this proves that the Big12 is not the better destination and ACC will not be picked apart by other conferences just like the Big12 was not and probably not the PAC12. Could a couple schools move in 34-36 to SEC? Yes. But noway ESPN allows the enemy get their dirty hands on Eastern to Southern markets they want to keep a stranglehold on. Have you all lost your mind? I have stated for quite some time that the Big12 focus on the 12 core schools they have now and focus as new deal comes to close and then with approval from ESPN and hopefully FOX and maybe one other network give green light to add 2-4 promising prominent G5 schools that almost check the boxes now but not quite and add with increasing confidence and conference revenue and value and blocking the other two power conferences in ACC and PAC12 in backfilling adequately and successfully and limit their options and operations while improving Big12/16/whatever# of schools footprint. Also another thing is that if the BIG10 is tapped out and unable to add any additional schools at this juncture and if money for PAC is lowered than expected or granted, why in the hell would ACC schools screw themselves with breaking up a guaranteed contract and revenue increase over time for potential more lucrative that may not be available and worse case scenario they get less money from ESPN and any other networks involved than currently. If ACC schools think by breaking up the conference and dissolving GOR and so on will yield some to SEC and some to BIG10 and some to Big12, that is incorrect and not promised to happen. Also there is no guarantee that they could renegotiate and get more money than Big12 from start to finish. No rule or law or contract in place that allows the ACC to get a better deal than currently. So my advice to ACC is to calm down and stay focused and together and wait. You will eventually overtake the Big12 as third financially.

[@tarheel7406]

@@michaelwall3393 a) The issue for me has never been the cost of a forced buyout. My working number is ~$500M as things stand and assuming no successful legal challenge. The reality is that the actual damages of a GOR breach aren't that high given the discounted deal and that a court is most likely to reduce the exit fees and shorten the GOR on public policy grounds. b) I maintain that the BIG12 will have to pay $10M or more per team to poach other P5s. That's possible for the PAC but unlikely for the ACC. The current ACC has even higher academic standards than the PAC and is tighter regionally. The BIG12's pro rata clause and vanilla branding makes it a non-player in the ACC situation. c) I see no feasible path for the BIG12 to get back to Tier 1 peer. It should either hope for an ACC survival to fill the revenue gap or work to be the best Tier 2. d) The B1G is facing demographic pressures and the SEC wants to prevent it from going south. At a minimum, each would take 2 ACC teams each by finding room and financing as part of that struggle. In the bigger picture, TX/OK and USC/UCLA all moved after determining peer athletic revenue is a necessity for top shelf athletic aspirations. ACC teams with revenue gap concerns are unlikely to wait it out and suffer a generation of the effects if they have viable options. 8 votes is the cleanest path, but I suspect 4 plaintiffs is enough for successful litigation. Of course those options wouldn't be pursued absent a contingent P2 invite.

[@vernonsheldon-witter1225]

@@tarheel7406 Bull.

[@zacharyjohnson9282]

As a WVU fan, Pitt and Va Tech back in the same conference would be awesome. I would be fine with a pod of WVU, Pitt, Va Tech, and Cinncy in an expanded big 12.

[@Facelessman276]

I would be happy for any sort of mini Big East football reunion so that sounds great to me!

[@tarheel7406]

What are the advantages of a national hodgepodge Tier 2 BIG12 over a smaller, regional Tier 2 ACC?

[@Facelessman276]

@@tarheel7406 I think he just wants to see traditional rivalries rekindled. You know, the ones that existed before the ACC destroyed the Big East 🙂 This is all purely speculation and NC is one the desirables so if it ever happened you would be long gone to whichever of the Power 2 you want

[@tarheel7406]

@@Facelessman276 The point is that a rebuilding ACC would likely have an interest in poaching WVU, so what's the preference?

[@zacharyjohnson9282]

@@tarheel7406 I would prefer the big 12 with regional pods. WVU will not join the ACC with or without its "bluebloods".

[@donnierearden8334]

One thing that’s not being talked about is the SEC & B10 could help absorb some of the buyout money for the ACC teams that they’re interested in bringing into their conference

[@CouzsCornerSports]

You are right. But, would they be motivated to do that? They are in the driver’s seat and don’t have to cater to anyone. Unless it adds a lot more money to their bottom line, I don’t see those two conferences ponying up any money.

[@glstewart2324]

Great show with awesome input. TY Couz

[@elliottcrews4997]

The conference will not be done if/when FSU and Clemson leave. We'll be fine with a 10-13 member conference. The sky is not falling.

[@tarheel7406]

Yeah, the guest is off on several factors. The loss of CLEMSON/FSU kills any chance of the ACC getting to Tier 1 peer but wouldn't cause the death. Wouldn't just be those 2 anyway, and even the most likely 4 wouldn't kill or even require replacements.

[@elliottcrews4997]

@@tarheel7406 My thinking as well. The bribe 4 more schools theory doesn't hold up well to any halfway close examination.

[@tarheel7406]

@@elliottcrews4997 The guest is an FSU homer, and FSU isn't a founder and doesn't weigh the academic branding as much. Settling with cash and scheduling commitments is feasible (I have been floating that idea for a long time now), but 4 proxies is a stretch.

[@VBHokie]

When FSU and Clemson leave, you can turn out the lights on the ACC...

[@tarheel7406]

@@VBHokie Why? The lights are still on at the BIG12 and it effectively lost its top 7 members.

[@bigdant1291]

Just my opinion, I just don’t see FSU as a SEC team. Back in the Bowden days sure, but not so much now

[@michaelwall3393]

Frito Pie for an extra early dinner and @Couz’s Corner on a Tuesday afternoon doesn’t get any better. Now on to my points. Everyone notice that these numbers presented are similar or identical to Mark Rogers, Tony Altimore, Marchand’s, Forbes, SBJ, and others numbers and not biased-driven towards any particular conference. I understand the short term financial impact and differential payments; but in the long term, it truly would behoove the ACC to calm itself down and stay together. By the way; the ACC and Big12 numbers financially speaking are damn near ironclad and hard as granite. The PAC12 not quite. All this bull corn about Big12 being third best conference financially and in sports are just that: bull crap! The PAC12 projections are possibly In speculation assuming that their new media deal is same or most likely lower than Big12 to much lower but still think it’s hovering at $25mil per team even with two expansion schools in SDSU and SMU. If ACC schools will just pump the brakes and realize that grass over on the Big12 pasture is not greener than they currently have or will have in the ACC. Now PAC12 and AAC are different stories; as is MWC. But this proves that the Big12 is not the better destination and ACC will not be picked apart by other conferences just like the Big12 was not and probably not the PAC12. Could a couple schools move in 34-36 to SEC? Yes. But noway ESPN allows the enemy get their dirty hands on Eastern to Southern markets they want to keep a stranglehold on. Have you all lost your mind? I have stated for quite some time that the Big12 focus on the 12 core schools they have now and focus as new deal comes to close and then with approval from ESPN and hopefully FOX and maybe one other network give green light to add 2-4 promising prominent G5 schools that almost check the boxes now but not quite and add with increasing confidence and conference revenue and value and blocking the other two power conferences in ACC and PAC12 in backfilling adequately and successfully and limit their options and operations while improving Big12/16/whatever# of schools footprint. Also another thing is that if the BIG10 is tapped out and unable to add any additional schools at this juncture and if money for PAC is lowered than expected or granted, why in the hell would ACC schools screw themselves with breaking up a guaranteed contract and revenue increase over time for potential more lucrative that may not be available and worse case scenario they get less money from ESPN and any other networks involved than currently. If ACC schools think by breaking up the conference and dissolving GOR and so on will yield some to SEC and some to BIG10 and some to Big12, that is incorrect and not promised to happen. Also there is no guarantee that they could renegotiate and get more money than Big12 from start to finish. No rule or law or contract in place that allows the ACC to get a better deal than currently. So my advice to ACC is to calm down and stay focused and together and wait. You will eventually overtake the Big12 as third financially.

[@robertsanders6858]

Lets make a crazy leap and say that all these "team experts" are all just hoping and are simply wrong and the GOR IS indeed binding. Now lets say the ACC, Notre Dame and ESPN decide that theyll just stick to their guns (as they are at the moment). IS FSU ready to roll on out or should they just shut it and try to figure a different way to create new revenue streams? Asking for a friend. BTW, the ACC couldnt wait to get rid of Maryland. There a reason Louisville was in the league less than a week after Md left. Just sayin'.

[@vernonsheldon-witter1225]

He said UND is not part of the equation.

[@michaelwall3393]

Frito Pie for an extra early dinner and @Couz’s Corner on a Tuesday afternoon doesn’t get any better. Now on to my points. Everyone notice that these numbers presented are similar or identical to Mark Rogers, Tony Altimore, Marchand’s, Forbes, SBJ, and others numbers and not biased-driven towards any particular conference. I understand the short term financial impact and differential payments; but in the long term, it truly would behoove the ACC to calm itself down and stay together. By the way; the ACC and Big12 numbers financially speaking are damn near ironclad and hard as granite. The PAC12 not quite. All this bull corn about Big12 being third best conference financially and in sports are just that: bull crap! The PAC12 projections are possibly In speculation assuming that their new media deal is same or most likely lower than Big12 to much lower but still think it’s hovering at $25mil per team even with two expansion schools in SDSU and SMU. If ACC schools will just pump the brakes and realize that grass over on the Big12 pasture is not greener than they currently have or will have in the ACC. Now PAC12 and AAC are different stories; as is MWC. But this proves that the Big12 is not the better destination and ACC will not be picked apart by other conferences just like the Big12 was not and probably not the PAC12. Could a couple schools move in 34-36 to SEC? Yes. But noway ESPN allows the enemy get their dirty hands on Eastern to Southern markets they want to keep a stranglehold on. Have you all lost your mind? I have stated for quite some time that the Big12 focus on the 12 core schools they have now and focus as new deal comes to close and then with approval from ESPN and hopefully FOX and maybe one other network give green light to add 2-4 promising prominent G5 schools that almost check the boxes now but not quite and add with increasing confidence and conference revenue and value and blocking the other two power conferences in ACC and PAC12 in backfilling adequately and successfully and limit their options and operations while improving Big12/16/whatever# of schools footprint. Also another thing is that if the BIG10 is tapped out and unable to add any additional schools at this juncture and if money for PAC is lowered than expected or granted, why in the hell would ACC schools screw themselves with breaking up a guaranteed contract and revenue increase over time for potential more lucrative that may not be available and worse case scenario they get less money from ESPN and any other networks involved than currently. If ACC schools think by breaking up the conference and dissolving GOR and so on will yield some to SEC and some to BIG10 and some to Big12, that is incorrect and not promised to happen. Also there is no guarantee that they could renegotiate and get more money than Big12 from start to finish. No rule or law or contract in place that allows the ACC to get a better deal than currently. So my advice to ACC is to calm down and stay focused and together and wait. You will eventually overtake the Big12 as third financially.

[@elliottcrews4997]

@@vernonsheldon-witter1225 He is wrong about that, and probably a lot of other things. ND is a full member of the ACC and thus they have full voting rights in all conference business. They just don't play football in the conference.

[@tarheel7406]

a) If litigation and an 8-vote dissolution threat aren't viable, the members turtle, mitigate the effects of the revenue gap, and revisit in 2036. b) MD was an unwanted but non-fatal loss. L'VILLE does not completely replace a founder. c) MD's departure is the root cause of the GOR. That was the first time that the SEC or B1G settled for a middle competitor after a top brand passed. The concern was rotting from the upper middle class as happened with the BIG12.

[@vernonsheldon-witter1225]

@@elliottcrews4997 How are they a full member when they do not play the biggest moneymaker within your conference?

[@KurtJohn3]

SEC has 490,299 students enrolled. The BigTen has 672,074 students enrolled. USC/UCLA combined enrollment is 88,947. Texas/Oklahoma combined enrollment is 73,143. The BigTen has the most money because the Alumni are bigger. Everything about the money returns to student enrollment and alumni base.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Hadn’t heard it from that perspective, but it makes sense.

[@alaneren9296]

I’m thinking there won’t be a ACC in about 5 or 6 years from now

[@tarheel7406]

Why? The BIG12 rebuilt and survived as a Tier 2. I can see how over a decade rather than overnight could easily make a difference.

[@slibertas1996]

Also, duke and NC will be practically joined at the hip

[@CouzsCornerSports]

I’m not sure about that. UNC & NC State are both funded by the state so the state and politicians will likely care more about where they go; unless some of them are Duke alums, then that could be a different story.

[@tarheel7406]

No and again, DUKE would be a coattail effort, and the named 7 suggests that effort has failed.

[@campbell2218]

ACC tanks we should grab Pitt UL NC State V-Tech G-Tech Syracuse UConn and Memphis for an even 20.

[@michaelwall3393]

Frito Pie for an extra early dinner and @Couz’s Corner on a Tuesday afternoon doesn’t get any better. Now on to my points. Everyone notice that these numbers presented are similar or identical to Mark Rogers, Tony Altimore, Marchand’s, Forbes, SBJ, and others numbers and not biased-driven towards any particular conference. I understand the short term financial impact and differential payments; but in the long term, it truly would behoove the ACC to calm itself down and stay together. By the way; the ACC and Big12 numbers financially speaking are damn near ironclad and hard as granite. The PAC12 not quite. All this bull corn about Big12 being third best conference financially and in sports are just that: bull crap! The PAC12 projections are possibly In speculation assuming that their new media deal is same or most likely lower than Big12 to much lower but still think it’s hovering at $25mil per team even with two expansion schools in SDSU and SMU. If ACC schools will just pump the brakes and realize that grass over on the Big12 pasture is not greener than they currently have or will have in the ACC. Now PAC12 and AAC are different stories; as is MWC. But this proves that the Big12 is not the better destination and ACC will not be picked apart by other conferences just like the Big12 was not and probably not the PAC12. Could a couple schools move in 34-36 to SEC? Yes. But noway ESPN allows the enemy get their dirty hands on Eastern to Southern markets they want to keep a stranglehold on. Have you all lost your mind? I have stated for quite some time that the Big12 focus on the 12 core schools they have now and focus as new deal comes to close and then with approval from ESPN and hopefully FOX and maybe one other network give green light to add 2-4 promising prominent G5 schools that almost check the boxes now but not quite and add with increasing confidence and conference revenue and value and blocking the other two power conferences in ACC and PAC12 in backfilling adequately and successfully and limit their options and operations while improving Big12/16/whatever# of schools footprint. Also another thing is that if the BIG10 is tapped out and unable to add any additional schools at this juncture and if money for PAC is lowered than expected or granted, why in the hell would ACC schools screw themselves with breaking up a guaranteed contract and revenue increase over time for potential more lucrative that may not be available and worse case scenario they get less money from ESPN and any other networks involved than currently. If ACC schools think by breaking up the conference and dissolving GOR and so on will yield some to SEC and some to BIG10 and some to Big12, that is incorrect and not promised to happen. Also there is no guarantee that they could renegotiate and get more money than Big12 from start to finish. No rule or law or contract in place that allows the ACC to get a better deal than currently. So my advice to ACC is to calm down and stay focused and together and wait. You will eventually overtake the Big12 as third financially.

[@tarheel7406]

In light of the pro rata and difficulties in poaching from an "academics also", how?

[@bigdant1291]

I’d very much like the old Big East teams to join us in the Big 12.

[@vernonsheldon-witter1225]

Louisville and Pitt especially.

[@michaelwall3393]

@@vernonsheldon-witter1225 Frito Pie for an extra early dinner and @Couz’s Corner on a Tuesday afternoon doesn’t get any better. Now on to my points. Everyone notice that these numbers presented are similar or identical to Mark Rogers, Tony Altimore, Marchand’s, Forbes, SBJ, and others numbers and not biased-driven towards any particular conference. I understand the short term financial impact and differential payments; but in the long term, it truly would behoove the ACC to calm itself down and stay together. By the way; the ACC and Big12 numbers financially speaking are damn near ironclad and hard as granite. The PAC12 not quite. All this bull corn about Big12 being third best conference financially and in sports are just that: bull crap! The PAC12 projections are possibly In speculation assuming that their new media deal is same or most likely lower than Big12 to much lower but still think it’s hovering at $25mil per team even with two expansion schools in SDSU and SMU. If ACC schools will just pump the brakes and realize that grass over on the Big12 pasture is not greener than they currently have or will have in the ACC. Now PAC12 and AAC are different stories; as is MWC. But this proves that the Big12 is not the better destination and ACC will not be picked apart by other conferences just like the Big12 was not and probably not the PAC12. Could a couple schools move in 34-36 to SEC? Yes. But noway ESPN allows the enemy get their dirty hands on Eastern to Southern markets they want to keep a stranglehold on. Have you all lost your mind? I have stated for quite some time that the Big12 focus on the 12 core schools they have now and focus as new deal comes to close and then with approval from ESPN and hopefully FOX and maybe one other network give green light to add 2-4 promising prominent G5 schools that almost check the boxes now but not quite and add with increasing confidence and conference revenue and value and blocking the other two power conferences in ACC and PAC12 in backfilling adequately and successfully and limit their options and operations while improving Big12/16/whatever# of schools footprint. Also another thing is that if the BIG10 is tapped out and unable to add any additional schools at this juncture and if money for PAC is lowered than expected or granted, why in the hell would ACC schools screw themselves with breaking up a guaranteed contract and revenue increase over time for potential more lucrative that may not be available and worse case scenario they get less money from ESPN and any other networks involved than currently. If ACC schools think by breaking up the conference and dissolving GOR and so on will yield some to SEC and some to BIG10 and some to Big12, that is incorrect and not promised to happen. Also there is no guarantee that they could renegotiate and get more money than Big12 from start to finish. No rule or law or contract in place that allows the ACC to get a better deal than currently. So my advice to ACC is to calm down and stay focused and together and wait. You will eventually overtake the Big12 as third financially.

[@vernonsheldon-witter1225]

@@michaelwall3393 More bullcrap. You get one of these answers. The rest is spam. Look up the definition.

[@jasonrollyson934]

It would be great for WVU and the Big12!!!

[@tarheel7406]

For what purpose a national Tier 2 BIG12?

[@mrmonkeysays]

I just thought of something. I wonder if part of the resistance to a plan like this would be from ESPN, because of ACC network investment. The 4 breakaways might have to make ESPN whole, too, to grease the skids.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

The two that go to the Big 10 might, but not the others. ESPN has the rights to the SEC and Big 12 already.

[@tarheel7406]

@@CouzsCornerSports TX/OK didn't have a dissolution threat nor was litigation feasible; therefore, an early departure required an amicable settlement with all parties sated. Dissolution and viable litigation threats changes the game.

[@opeydedon2279]

If UT/UOkla had to make Fox whole ESPN will want the same. Going ESPN to ESPN would be interesting.

[@tarheel7406]

@@opeydedon2279 Again, the TX/OK situation doesn't apply to the ACC situation. TX/OK couldn't threaten to dissolve the BIG12, and litigation wasn't feasible given how short the remaining term if the GOR.A settlement was the only path since there were no hostile paths,

[@sammyvillena9777]

It would be breat if the Big 12 could get Virginia Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, aaaaaaaaaand Miami. I really can't see the Canes in the SEC because Florida would veto that in a heartbeat and I have doubts the Big Ten would accept them because of their negative history. Big Ten can take: Virginia, North Carolina, and Duke. SEC takes: Florida St and Clemson. Boom Conference done.

[@CreightonRabs]

In theory, Texas A&M should've vetoed Texas joining the SEC and we all know how that turned out. That said, don't think that Florida would also veto Florida State's attempts to join the SEC, much less Miami.

[@craigkirsch6750]

Miami will wind up in the Big 12, neither the big two are interested in them. Why would they?

[@sammyvillena9777]

@@CreightonRabs I dunno. I think Florida would be ok with Florida St but not Miami. Just a gut feeling. As for Texas A&M, they don't have the clout that Florida does and besides that they're NOOBS why would the league listen to their noobie butts. ;-P

[@tarheel7406]

The B1G will likely want a Florida school for an effective play south. If not FSU, that leaves MIAMI.

[@craigkirsch6750]

@@tarheel7406 Miami doesn't fit the B1G in any way shape or form. Taking a school just to be in Florida isn't the smartest play.

[@busaf95]

Couz, Luke DeCock from the Raleigh News Observer wrote an article a year ago and said ND has a vote. Also not sure TJ's navigate numbers are updated post the new B12 deal.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

They are not the updated numbers. I actually mentioned that later in the video.

[@robertbailey7329]

I think it happens faster than you thanks

[@michaelwall3393]

Frito Pie for an extra early dinner and @Couz’s Corner on a Tuesday afternoon doesn’t get any better. Now on to my points. Everyone notice that these numbers presented are similar or identical to Mark Rogers, Tony Altimore, Marchand’s, Forbes, SBJ, and others numbers and not biased-driven towards any particular conference. I understand the short term financial impact and differential payments; but in the long term, it truly would behoove the ACC to calm itself down and stay together. By the way; the ACC and Big12 numbers financially speaking are damn near ironclad and hard as granite. The PAC12 not quite. All this bull corn about Big12 being third best conference financially and in sports are just that: bull crap! The PAC12 projections are possibly In speculation assuming that their new media deal is same or most likely lower than Big12 to much lower but still think it’s hovering at $25mil per team even with two expansion schools in SDSU and SMU. If ACC schools will just pump the brakes and realize that grass over on the Big12 pasture is not greener than they currently have or will have in the ACC. Now PAC12 and AAC are different stories; as is MWC. But this proves that the Big12 is not the better destination and ACC will not be picked apart by other conferences just like the Big12 was not and probably not the PAC12. Could a couple schools move in 34-36 to SEC? Yes. But noway ESPN allows the enemy get their dirty hands on Eastern to Southern markets they want to keep a stranglehold on. Have you all lost your mind? I have stated for quite some time that the Big12 focus on the 12 core schools they have now and focus as new deal comes to close and then with approval from ESPN and hopefully FOX and maybe one other network give green light to add 2-4 promising prominent G5 schools that almost check the boxes now but not quite and add with increasing confidence and conference revenue and value and blocking the other two power conferences in ACC and PAC12 in backfilling adequately and successfully and limit their options and operations while improving Big12/16/whatever# of schools footprint. Also another thing is that if the BIG10 is tapped out and unable to add any additional schools at this juncture and if money for PAC is lowered than expected or granted, why in the hell would ACC schools screw themselves with breaking up a guaranteed contract and revenue increase over time for potential more lucrative that may not be available and worse case scenario they get less money from ESPN and any other networks involved than currently. If ACC schools think by breaking up the conference and dissolving GOR and so on will yield some to SEC and some to BIG10 and some to Big12, that is incorrect and not promised to happen. Also there is no guarantee that they could renegotiate and get more money than Big12 from start to finish. No rule or law or contract in place that allows the ACC to get a better deal than currently. So my advice to ACC is to calm down and stay focused and together and wait. You will eventually overtake the Big12 as third financially.

[@chriss8718]

Also, ESPN has not reason to play ball with this when they have the ACC at a cut rate til 2036. They could say no they aren’t paying the freight for schools in the SEC and paying more for them

[@CouzsCornerSports]

But there’s a chance ESPN could make more money on the SEC deal if they add Clemson & FSU. Also, the networks don’t have full control over what conferences do.

[@tarheel7406]

ESPN refusing to pay more to the SEC after an ACC scatter has always been the most interesting angle. That and the BIG12's pro rata would leave the B1G with only unilateral moves until 2036. The risk to the SEC and ESPN is that the B1G could feasibly get up to 7 votes via invites and plug to 8 votes with proxies. That would result in the SEC losing those options effectively forever while the broadcasters could shift conferences down the line.

[@BrianB55]

Great show man keep it up

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Thank you.

[@JK-bn8ik]

It makes the most sense for Florida State to go to the Big Ten for superior academics, research opportunities and more money.

[@tarheel7406]

Superior academic associations, not really more research opportunities, more money in the short term but perhaps not for the long.

[@westernciviccapital3075]

We see WV as having juice with Senator Manchin running the Federal NIL legislation. Also, West Virginia is the Switzerland of college football, historically, culturally, and geographically. As such we see the Mountaineers seeking and achieving "Protected Independent" status, with a loose affiliation and all other sports in the SEC. -likewise ND independent with other sports in the B1G; BYU with the third 25. Tulane to take that spot in the SEC25. Otherwise this remains operative. We just don't know when. THE FULL PICTURE IS IN! -August 11, 2022 ND TO STAY INDEPENDENT; MIAMI IS IN, JOINING THE SEC! (They're going to 25) THE NEW FULL MEMO ON COLLEGE FOOTBALL REALIGNMENT... Please remember, as Commissioner Warren said, these things are planned well in advance... To the B1G (FOX): Pitt, Stanford, Cal, Washington, Utah, Oregon, Kansas, Arizona and Colorado for 25 (all here mentioned are AAU schools). To the SEC (ESPN): NC(aau), Duke(aau), UVA(aau), Clemson, Florida St., West Virginia, Georgia Tech(aau), Miami and Virginia Tech for 25. Notre Dame (NBC) (and BYU?) will stay independent with playoff access. Look for an independent alliance to include ND, BYU and the service academies moving forward. NOTE: Divisions are only for the purpose of assuring regional play and reducing travel, and could be annually flexible by school requests. These divisions are likely to be more relevant in non football sports. The football teams with the top 4 (at least, could go to 8 [flexibility?], culminating with the Rose Bowl) conference records will go to the conference semifinals in early or mid December regardless of their divisions, and the conference championships are to be played on New Year's Day (B1G/Rose, SEC/Sugar, Third25/Cotton). B1G25 Southern Pacific division Cal USC UCLA Arizona Utah B1G25 Northern Pacific division Colorado Nebraska Stanford Oregon Washington B1G25 Great Plains division Minnesota Iowa Kansas Wisconsin Illinois B1G25 Great Lakes division Indiana Purdue Northwestern Michigan Michigan State B1G25 Union division Rutgers Maryland Penn State Pitt Ohio State Meet the SEC25: Knowing that Pitt is going B1G, and 8 more ACC schools are going to the SEC, that's more than enough schools than needed to break the ACC contract. Given the continuing regional continuity of the SEC, divisions will be even less significant than in the B1G. Maintaining certain rivalries and neighborly games will be more a matter of game "reservation" than divisional assignments. Again, the 4 (or 8, or a flexibility to assure fair access) best conference records of the SEC to play in semifinals in early December. Texas Oklahoma Texas A&M Arkansas Kentucky Missouri LSU Miss State Ole Miss Tennessee Vanderbilt Alabama Auburn Florida Florida St. Georgia Georgia Tech South Carolina Clemson North Carolina Duke UVA Virginia Tech West Virginia Miami The rest to comprise TheThird25 conference with access relegation to playoff eligible divisions (similar to Euro soccer leagues) with guaranteed football playoff slots for their top teams every year. (Realignment for non football sports in this third conference, as membership could include 40 or so schools, with likely only 25 members of which will start the football season with access to the national playoff, more permanent regional sub conferences will be needed, and allowing these regional divisions to develop organically is expected to be one of the final components, and possibly most time consuming, such that the networks/B1G/SEC intend to allow the third conference a couple years of organization before defining a final playoff structure.) This third conference is going to be full of badass non AAU schools from coast to coast, will have playoff access, and likely compete well for national titles moving forward. And now be introduced to TheThird25 Conference: TheThird25 (Apple/Amazon/Innovative Media Delivery, -and maybe CBS) (Assuming BYU stays independent) 1) Oklahoma St. 2) Washington St. 3) TCU 4) Arizona St. 5) Kansas St. 6) Baylor 7) Boise St. 8) San Diego St. 9) NC St. 10) Tulane (AAU school) 11) Rice (AAU school) 12) UCF(disney/espn) 13) Louisville 14) Cincinnati 15) Houston 16) Boston College To finish TheThird25: Utah State Syracuse Hawaii Oregon State Fresno State Iowa State Texas Tech SMU Memphis and/or Southern Miss or Wake Forrest or Colorado State or Tulsa or Wyoming or New Mexico or UConn or Nevada or UTEP or Army or Navy or Air Force... etc. Relegation clearly required. The Eligible76 (77 - BYU?) So that makes 76 teams with playoff access each year: B1G25, SEC25, TheThird25 (with relegation beyond 25), and independent Notre Dame (and BYU?). B1G/SEC to play 9 of 11 regular season games in conference (4 division, 1 each in the other 4 divisions, plus 1 reserved/rivalry game =9), and 2 non conference games (1 allowed to be an opponent beyond the eligible76). How can this happen? Quite simply. -and in the end likely a value booster for all schools through the 3 mega conferences... Except for the 32 currrent legacy members of the B1G/SEC, revenue sharing as we've known it is finished. The rest will be taken on and paid in accord with their relative fanbase/marketshare and other values brought to the table. And they're selling this beautifully.... This has to be the single best dudes' soap opera to run the sportswire in some time. This is intentional. It's a done deal, but milking the interest is just the first part of this brilliant college football marketing campaign. -or, blame capitalism. ✌🤠✌ Look for something called the "Independent Invitational" game to be played in early December alongside the conference semifinals, and to be managed by The Playoff Commission, playing Notre Dame (and/or BYU?) and possibly service academies against a team hoping to make a playoff or better bowl claim, or any other 2 teams the Commission may deem appropriate in a given year in order to help clarify and minimize their playoff selections upcoming after the bowls. (It has been proposed that any Division 1 school relegated beyond the eligible76 could achieve instant transcendence with an undefeated (11-0) season -w/10 D1 wins- and a likely invitation to the Independent Invitational prior to major bowl selection.) The bowls will play out during the holidays and could have playoff selection implications depending on the year. PLAYOFF FLEXIBILITY IS THE KEY (setting an arbitrary number of playoff slots before the season plays out is a failed model): The concept of yearly playoff flexibility should be incorporated. Every year is different; setting an arbitrary number of playoff slots before the season plays out inevitably rubs against fairness for the next team left out. After the 3 Conference championships on New Year's Day (yielding 3 guaranteed advanced playoff births) the Playoff Commission should call no less than 4 teams, but up to 16, or any (even odd) number in between, such that no eligible undefeated team is left out (an "objective, measurable, clear and articulable delineation between the last team to qualify, and all remaining eligible teams..."), and playing such few games as necessary to answer but one question: Who is number 1?

[@westernciviccapital3075]

And Couz... that's where the "protected" part comes in. Look to ND's contract with the ACC as a model. But of course WV does not have the fanbase if an ND or BYU, so your Senator will have to assure tgeir baseline financial protection in the final arrangement. I just think given West Virginia's unique and critical role in the history of this country, it's culture and geography makes it a fascinating major independent. And if "protected" will be an institution in college football moving forward... barring war.

[@rhodreemahr4598]

The Big 12 TV contract ends in 2030. Over that time period the ACC and Big 12 have about the same payout per team. Why would a new contract signed by the Big 12 after that make less money? The trend has been for the TV deals to get bigger and bigger. The ACC contract being extended to 2036 without the ability to renegotiate or get bids on the open market is exactly why the ACC is in trouble, so it is very strange to me you are using it as if its an advantage over the Big 12. How many experts would have predicted the Big 12 without Texas and Oklahoma would get the same money as the ACC right now? You are severely underestimating the Big 12 ability to make even more money in the 2030's.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Normally, I would agree with you, but I read an article a few days ago explaining how we have reached the peak of tv payouts for conferences. Not saying the Big 12 can’t get more money in the future, but it’s not a guarantee.

[@rhodreemahr4598]

@@CouzsCornerSports I've been hearing there will be an end to this bubble in live sports TV contracts for many years now and it hasn't happened yet. Also, inflation going into overdrive will be a factor. We will see. I definitely think there should have been a label to the projected numbers. All of the supposed losses were projected, so, by who and by what logic?

[@tarheel7406]

a) The ACC has look ins and auto escalators that ESPN can use at a minimum to keep the BIG12 irrelevant as to the ACC's situation b) Everyone has said since Day 1 that the ACC deal was "terrible" meaning substantially below market. There's no surprise that a current market Tier 2 BIG12 would get something close. If anything, the surprise should be that the new BIG12 couldn't do better.

[@DougNTexas51]

Pretty good basketball teams also.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Absolutely

[@elliottcrews4997]

Less than 6 minutes in and I have to question TJ's expertise on the subject. ND is a full member of the ACC and have full voting rights in any conference matter. And there are 15 teams in the conference with 14 participating in football. A majority is anything over half, so the number is 8 regardless. Come on if you get this wrong what else are you missing or not clearly understanding? Also the majority to dissolve is based on an assumption that NC courts would deem this as what is needed. There is nothing in the ACC charter regarding dissolving the conference.

[@tarheel7406]

The majority to dissolve is based on applicable North Carolina law

[@CouzsCornerSports]

He never said this would definitely happen. He said it’s a possibility.

[@DoubleFriesNoSlaw]

ND is not needed to leave the conference to dissolve. I appreciate your comment. 8 teams leaving would do it.

[@elliottcrews4997]

@@DoubleFriesNoSlaw Yes any 8 schools would do it.

[@tarheel7406]

@@DoubleFriesNoSlaw 8 votes, which would include proxies

[@thomastrain7311]

I heard wvu is hiring Paul Johnson as head coach. He's bringing the triple option to Morgantown

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Hey, might be a good option this year. Lol

[@chriss8718]

This data isn’t right. B12 goes back to market in 2030 and will no doubt increase their rights value yet again

[@CouzsCornerSports]

We covered that in the video. He said these numbers are projections based on the current tv deals. He specifically said the gap is probably even smaller because the future Big 12 numbers will be better.

[@tarheel7406]

The BIG12's reported new deal only increased ~$0-5M per after accounting for the relevant factors. Projecting the reported deal out through 2036 is likely reliable enough.

[@westernciviccapital3075]

Good interview. Now here's the thing: If the B1G breaks into the South in any way, parity is over. There is no where the SEC can go to get to 25. At that point how long before the B1G picks off Georgia and Alabama and begins to manage all of college athletics? So I don't think the networks will allow it. Only Pitt to the B1G.

[@hufferbillypaw]

Networks will have no say on where teams end up.

[@vernonsheldon-witter1225]

@@hufferbillypaw The Conferences and what they offer will be the deciding factor. The Big 12 should do well with this eventuality. Pitt and Louisville will be natural fits for us, and possibly Syracuse. BC as bad as they are, would be another. The BIG has made no secret what teams they want, UVA and UNC. And the SEC wants Clemson, Florida State, and possibly GTU. Miami is a big question mark.

[@tarheel7406]

@@davidkreitzer4401 When the ACC stood at 9 and needed 12 for a championship game, it should have added just 3 more: MIAMI, VATECH +1. PITT clearly preferred the B1G and CUSE perhaps. Begs the question, is inviting a school that prefers another option worth the potential trouble? What were then better +1 options. The BIG12 was WVU's 4th preference.

[@terencebaca1990]

I agree. No way the SEC/ESPN allow other conferences to invade their region. In the long run Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, and Miami all get added to the SEC. The Big Ten responds by adding 4 AAU schools: Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Pitt.

[@tarheel7406]

@@terencebaca1990 PITT would be a very low priority for the B1G. If it can't go deeper south with acceptable schools, the B1G plugs with WASH or STANFORD. Maybe KANSAS.

[@michaelwall3393]

Frito Pie for an extra early dinner and @Couz’s Corner on a Tuesday afternoon doesn’t get any better. Now on to my points. Everyone notice that these numbers presented are similar or identical to Mark Rogers, Tony Altimore, Marchand’s, Forbes, SBJ, and others numbers and not biased-driven towards any particular conference. I understand the short term financial impact and differential payments; but in the long term, it truly would behoove the ACC to calm itself down and stay together. By the way; the ACC and Big12 numbers financially speaking are damn near ironclad and hard as granite. The PAC12 not quite. All this bull corn about Big12 being third best conference financially and in sports are just that: bull crap! The PAC12 projections are possibly In speculation assuming that their new media deal is same or most likely lower than Big12 to much lower but still think it’s hovering at $25mil per team even with two expansion schools in SDSU and SMU. If ACC schools will just pump the brakes and realize that grass over on the Big12 pasture is not greener than they currently have or will have in the ACC. Now PAC12 and AAC are different stories; as is MWC. But this proves that the Big12 is not the better destination and ACC will not be picked apart by other conferences just like the Big12 was not and probably not the PAC12. Could a couple schools move in 34-36 to SEC? Yes. But noway ESPN allows the enemy get their dirty hands on Eastern to Southern markets they want to keep a stranglehold on. Have you all lost your mind? I have stated for quite some time that the Big12 focus on the 12 core schools they have now and focus as new deal comes to close and then with approval from ESPN and hopefully FOX and maybe one other network give green light to add 2-4 promising prominent G5 schools that almost check the boxes now but not quite and add with increasing confidence and conference revenue and value and blocking the other two power conferences in ACC and PAC12 in backfilling adequately and successfully and limit their options and operations while improving Big12/16/whatever# of schools footprint. Also another thing is that if the BIG10 is tapped out and unable to add any additional schools at this juncture and if money for PAC is lowered than expected or granted, why in the hell would ACC schools screw themselves with breaking up a guaranteed contract and revenue increase over time for potential more lucrative that may not be available and worse case scenario they get less money from ESPN and any other networks involved than currently. If ACC schools think by breaking up the conference and dissolving GOR and so on will yield some to SEC and some to BIG10 and some to Big12, that is incorrect and not promised to happen. Also there is no guarantee that they could renegotiate and get more money than Big12 from start to finish. No rule or law or contract in place that allows the ACC to get a better deal than currently. So my advice to ACC is to calm down and stay focused and together and wait. You will eventually overtake the Big12 as third financially.

[@harlan-harris]

TJ!!!

[@jacobandrew579]

We should really stop saying “teams” and start saying “schools”

[@vernonsheldon-witter1225]

How about Universities, it is what they are.

[@pawsitivemike5295]

Clemson will be an AAU member in 2025 so that’s telling me it’s the big 10 for Clemson.

[@patrickboren2211]

All good but XII Grant of Rights comes up sooner and so that doesn't really reflect reality. The other issues are the moneys from the tournament/post season, Big XII has been doing better.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

These are just projections based on the current media deal. We addressed that late in the video. Thanks for the comment.

[@opeydedon2279]

yes big difference fighting a 4 yr exit (Big12) and 13 yr exit (ACC). even at a expressed court hearing UO/UT would not have been to court in 2 to 3 yrs so try to settle and they did with only future monies having to give up. ACC u have to go to court u lose if u dont for sure 100%.

[@tarheel7406]

If the ACC depletes, by what means and how many have P2 landings will control, especially where UVA/UNC go. A rule of thumb: 4 Teams: Litigation 6 Teams: Litigation or 6 votes + 2 proxies dissolution threat 8 Teams: Dissolution threat

[@elliottcrews4997]

I don't believe the chart you are showing includes conference network money. If it doesn't then bear in mind that the B12 doesn't have a network and the ACC does. The ACC media money is between 8-12M per school so that is the case the gap between the ACC and B12 is greater in favor of ACC than what you are showing.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

The chart was derived from Navigate’s projections, which were put out in 2022 I think.

[@tarheel7406]

For this purpose we can safely say that the ACC's current deal is expected to pay more than the new BIG12's but not substantially more and not close enough to the SEC/B1G.

[@elliottcrews4997]

@@CouzsCornerSports So does it include ACCN $? I'm thinking it is media rights contract money only but I could be mistaken.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

@@elliottcrews4997 I don’t think it does, but not 100% sure.

[@Hankful1]

If the acc goes away it's 100 percent on espn since they could kick in some financial help to the big 4 in football and keep it whole and the other teams on the cheap

[@tarheel7406]

Can't see it working that way (i.e. unequals), but controlling 66% of a P3 rather than 50% of a P2 would be the options under these assumption. ESPN may simply not have the financing.

[@nathanjm000]

Big Ten Virginia North Carolina Georgia Tech Notre Dame SEC Florida State Miami Clemson Virginia Tech Big XII Louisville NC State Syracuse Pittsburgh Big East Duke Boston College American Wake Forest

[@tarheel7406]

a) A deplted ACC is more likely to rebuild than scatter b) If DUKE isn't coattailed and the ACC doesn't rebuild, DUKE is unlikely to go BIG12. Rather BIGEAST or IVY.

[@nathanjm000]

@@tarheel7406 Duke would fit well in the Big East especially if they bring BC like I said

[@tarheel7406]

@@nathanjm000 My apologies, misread the list. Some breaks per group would help. Regardless, a full ACC scatter isn't likely.

[@westernciviccapital3075]

Again, if yhe B1G breaks into the South in any way, they will end up managing all of college athletics, or the antitrust lawsuits begin. Because at that point the SEC will not be able to maintain parity.

[@GrayHerter]

Assuming 8 votes can actually dissolve the ACC, I think your outcome is very possible. I'd make one change, though. I'd move NC State up to the breakaway 8. I don't see ND being the final vote to dissolve the ACC.

[@slibertas1996]

Notre Dame would vote to get out of the ACC

[@tarheel7406]

Not yet among the named 7.

[@slibertas1996]

Notre Dame is included

[@brandonh5360]

Just expand early. Grab some valuable G5’s before they split

[@joe_zeay]

There will be no pac10 in 2026. There will be no ACC in 2033

[@keahilanil3469]

There will be no linear TV networks in 2033 able to pay $700 million or more.

[@tarheel7406]

You may be correct, but why? The BIG12 has rebuilt and survives as a Tier 2.

[@CharlesFosterMalloy]

Nobody in the ACC (not named Notre Dame) goes to the Big10 as long as ESPN is out of the Big10.

[@tarheel7406]

Not really

[@westernciviccapital3075]

Astute. But Pitt is in... at least as of August. The rest are SEC and Lubbockian.

[@tarheel7406]

@@westernciviccapital3075 Delusional

[@westernciviccapital3075]

Nope. Its math. If the B1G breaks into the south at all, the SEC cannot reach 25.

[@tarheel7406]

@@westernciviccapital3075 a) PITT isn't south. b) There is no reason to believe that the B1G securing UVA/UNC assures a its picks further south other than DUKE. c) Been saying for a long time that if the B1G does make a quality and heavy run south, that would assure it being #1 for the foreseeable, but the SEC would be close enough given the advantages of its region

[@mikekatura6657]

Stop calling out su we drive revenue more for acc then the Carolina schools

[@CouzsCornerSports]

In what way? I’m asking sincerely because I don’t know that much about your school or program.

[@ronaldx1998]

Clemson & Duke WILL join the SEC by 2025!

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Why Duke?

[@blackreacher]

How many dollars are there in existence? That's a lot of money being tossed around, players gotta be paid too. This is all business

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Players will eventually get paid by the schools. It’s just a matter of time.

[@tarheel7406]

This realignment is about contraction via consolidation. The bigger brands and major flags are consolidating for the wealth created by synergies and the wealth shifted from the outside to the inside. The TX/OK and USC/UCLA moves shifted value from that BIG12 and PAC to the SEC and B1G respectively. The moves also created more matchups of higher fan interest and media value (synergies). The likely last shift of value will come from the P2 separating for a closed Tier 1.

[@hawkeye790]

Nothing new here. Same old whining by the top teams in the ACC wanting out. Unfortunately, the teams that don't make it to the BiG or SEC are going to be "odd man out". Joining the Big12 for an extra 60 million is a bad deal. Please stop peddling this drivel about an extra 4 teams wanting to join the B12 over the ACC. Yet again, there's a sucker born everyday. But please don't try to advertise this plan as something good for everyone. The ACC may dissolve some day. But right now that means 4 winners and 11 losers. That is exactly why nothing has happened yet.

[@rodneythurman6166]

Stupidity...no team would leave just to stay the same. Travel costs would also go up for those other 4 schools. It would cost more like 100-150 million to pay off the four other schools each.

[@rodneythurman6166]

Sounds like wishful thinking...desperation to stay in the race with the SEC and BigI otherwise it would cost a lot. A lot more than this video tries to portend.

[@tarheel7406]

An ACC remainder moving to the new BIG12 would at best be lateral financially. Would be a downgrade academically, in legacy conference branding, and for regionality. Harder to say athletically.

[@big12plus]

👍✅ 🔔✅

[@nerinamak3298]

Big-12 is just another dead conference so why would anybody go there?

[@CouzsCornerSports]

They don’t look so dead right now do they?

[@nerinamak3298]

@@CouzsCornerSports I'm not saying I like it but In three years there will only be 2 conferences that matters. The rest will be fighting for scraps.

[@tarheel7406]

Dead as a peer Tier 1 major, but very viable as a Tier 2.

[@larrychannell7056]

What the hell are you talking about private and smaller!!! I think only one of the Big Ten is private and the largest school in the country is in the big ten. Hell Oho State and Texas used to take turns being the largest in the county. There is no school in the sec larger!!! Now there is one of those off-schools in Florida has joined the fun for a three-way for the largest. I think it's South Florida not sure.

[@CouzsCornerSports]

Arizona State has the largest enrollment in the country, followed by UCF.

[@tarheel7406]

Undergrad enrollment would control alumni fan base.