San Francisco’s Newest Subway (and other Muni Metro Lines)

[@oskehcat]

Fun fact: The Muni Market St. subway was ready for trains as early as 1975, but the new LRVs from Boeing had so many issues that they delivered them five years late.

[@edwardmiessner6502]

The MBTA in Boston got the first batch of Boeing LRVs and they had a lot of issues in their first years of service!

[@janettemcclelland2959]

And the Boeing trains were awful.

[@Thom-TRA]

Nice job Boeing

[@catman422]

They were so bad that they had to be retired early which is how we got the Breda trains.

[@janettemcclelland2959]

@@catman422 They were bad from day 1. The doors always malfunctioned. No AC. The steps sometimes didn't go down when the street running started. And they always broke down in the tunnel. At one point around 1981-82 Muni had to shut down the subway altogether and bring back the surface streetcars on Market. Luckily the entrance to the old tunnel at Castro was still open for the K,L and M to use.

[@alan85]

That Asian gentleman at 06:58 likes to ride around the city on the N-Judah from end to end and back again. I saw him all the time when I lived in SF 20 years ago. Funny to see him in this video.

[@Lanes100]

A true people watcher. Based

[@RaymondHng]

I thought you were referring to the infamous Frank Chu, the 12 galaxies sign-carrying guy.

[@haj8579]

What makes San Francisco interesting is that the transport system reminds me some German cities rather than American cities. Heavy rail rapid transit, light rail transit, streetcars and buses are all combined.

[@Thom-TRA]

Exactly! I love the variety

[@IndustrialParrot2816]

Many of the Transit systems in the Bay area based on German systems

[@evanstonbalce9588]

The city’s buses are mainly from New Flyer, a Canadian bus manufacturer

[@IndustrialParrot2816]

@@evanstonbalce9588 Flyer makes all the buses here in Seattle too I think our trolleybuses were part of the same order as SF's

[@evanstonbalce9588]

@@IndustrialParrot2816 Yes, sometime between 2015 and 2019 Muni and Seattle Metro teamed up on the same contract to buy those buses

[@Topper-gf8xl]

When you get a chance, ride the SMART train in Marin County, North across the Golden Gate Bridge. Take the ferry from SF to Larkspur to catch the train.

[@DanTheCaptain]

San Francisco has become on of my favourite transit cities in the US! The city has an impressive amount of rail transit covering a good amount of the city! It’s also a really diverse system with everything you can imagine! Midi buses, rigid buses, articulated buses, trolleybuses, vintage trams, modern light rail, cable cars, metros, and ferries!

[@carlossantiago323]

You forgot human feces LOL

[@faithinverity8523]

Wait until the new electric CalTrain gets going.

[@RaymondHng]

@@faithinverity8523 Caltrain is not owned by the City and County of San Francisco. It is governed by the Peninsula Corridor Joint Powers Board (PCJPB) which consists of agencies from the three counties served by Caltrain: Santa Clara, San Francisco, and San Mateo. Each member agency has three representatives on a nine-member Board of Directors. The member agencies are the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority, the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency, and the San Mateo County Transit District (SamTrans).

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

"And Mr. Crocs over here is about to find out the hard way" 😂. I loved watching Full House as a kid too on TeenNick, especially the Disney World episode. Seeing the houses shown in the Full House intro is really cool, but it really makes you ask the big questions: Whatever happened to predictability? The milkman, the paperboy, evening TV? How did I get delivered here? Somebody tell me please, this old world's confusing me! Yup, the Painted Ladies were repainted that way beginning in the 1960s, though the houses were first built between 1849 and 1915. 48,000 of them were built during that time! They were painted as a battleship gray during WWI and WWII until 1963 when artist Butch Kardum set an example. And you definitely find some neat creatures at the Presidio. Like California voles and the Botta's pocket gopher! California voles are native to much of California as well as southwestern Oregon. Botta's pocket gophers are found in much of California but can also be found eastward towards Texas and southward towards Cabo San Lucas in Mexico. Pocket gophers live in a burrow system that can cover an area that is 200 to 2,000 square feet. Feeding burrows are usually 6 to 12 inches below ground, and the nest and food storage chamber can be as deep as 6 feet

[@Thom-TRA]

Kid don’t sell your dream so soon! It did seem like there’s little critters everywhere you look!

[@flyingmolamola]

I used to watch full house as well, and then I found it on a map, I’ve lived 4 blocks from that house for the last 20 years 😂. I’m sure I’ve walked in front of it without even realizing it.

[@flyingmolamola]

Note: I’m not talking about the painted ladies like your comment, but the full house house.

[@ciello___8307]

I took it recently from chase center to connect to bart. It was a lifesaver in the cold rain

[@barryrobbins7694]

The Siemens S200 is manufactured up in the Sacramento area by Siemens Mobility.

[@alexbrown9351]

The new T Line really is a new chapter for Muni. Until the last 50 years or so, building rail-based public transportation in hilly cities was a challenge, because light rail is generally limited in how steep it can climb (metal train wheels only have so much grip with vehicles that heavy; people don't want an "I think I can; I think I can" slipping train experience on their daily commutes). This partially explains why the SF public transportation system was essentially three disjointed systems (cable cars for steep hills, trollies/street cars for the flatter valleys and along the Embarcadero waterfront (including the rare, wide uninterrupted valleys forming Market Street and the Mission), and electric (instant high-torque) rubber-wheeled buses that could do inclines in between the two extremes). In order to have true, off-grid light rail in hilly cities, you have to have the engineering to build an underground seismically stable, well ventilated, essentially flat subway/light-rail network, built at a level near or below the lowest elevation in the city the network must go through, and then to build long escalators and elevators that can reach up to the surface, however high the surface may be at that particular station. That only came into existence (or at least at a relatively affordable price) more recently, which is part of the reason why the NYC subway is over 70 years older than Washington, DC's subway system. (As a result of its hills, the DC metro contains the two longest escalators in the Western Hemisphere). Ironically, SF had adopted this "build flat; add stairs" solution for hills quite early in its public transportation history. In 1917, SF completed construction of the Twin Peaks Tunnel, which allowed street cars going down Market Street to stay flat and essentially drive through the hills in the middle of the city to come out on the other side for access to the Sunset neighborhood. And, in the middle of the tunnel, SF created the Forest Hill Station, which had stairs to get commuters up to the surface on top of the hill. But after doing this once, SF hasn't returned to this approach for servicing hilly locations until now, over a century later. The video notes that the platform for the Chinatown Station is build deep underground. That's true, clearly, relative to the surface, but it's not so much that they build the line deep (it's not nearly as deep relative to the surface near Market Street), so much as the surface got high, since Chinatown is built half-way up Nob HIll. The Line stayed at (or near) the same depth, it's the surface that rose, so more escalators are needed. Hopefully SF continues down this path (not waiting another century to try again) so that off-grid light rail can be brought to other SF neighborhoods currently isolated from the system, which must rely on personal vehicles or surface-level buses that get stuck in (and contribute to) traffic. I'm sure the escalator industry would be in favor.

[@janettemcclelland2959]

Irving & 9 th Ave! Know it well. I grew up riding the old streetcars before the subway was built. When everything went along Market on the surface. And the N went out Duboce Ave to Market.

[@Thom-TRA]

Glad to take you down memory lane!

[@janettemcclelland2959]

@@Thom-TRA Lots of memories. My dad lived near Duboce and Noe. I also remember when the K,L and M entered the old tunnel at Castro. It was very different from what we had at the time in LA where I grew up.

[@ChrisH-1952]

Very interesting. It brought back memories of the movie 'Dirty Harry' with Clint Eastwood running around the tunnels with the old-style streetcars which you showed last week. 👍

[@Thom-TRA]

I’ll have to watch that one

[@MikeCohenSF]

I love that scene around Carl & Cole

[@TrainsFerriesFeet]

Such a beautiful city; I can't wait to visit.

[@dmnddog7417]

Visiting is nice. Living there is another story. I lived there for two years ('06-'08), and that's when you start noticing how dilapidated, unkempt and desolate some parts of the city are. That being said, I really loved getting around the city in MUNI trains and busses. It was cheap and very convenient. I don't remember much talk about this central tunnel. I think that at that time it seemed like a pipe dream that wasn't going to happen. It's good that they built it. Now they need to extend the line beyond Chinatown under (or onto) Columbus to Fort Mason or even The Marina. A fun thought experiment is to look at the "Owl All-Nighter" service map and imagine many of the routes as rail, and you'll think, "Wow, this would be a kickass metro!"

[@ballyhigh11]

@@dmnddog7417 I've been visiting SF with my work for nearly 30 years. It's so sad to see how the downtown area has deteriorated, particularly since Covid. That said, I always take advantage of the SFMTA and explore the lovely suburbs of the city.

[@SFDom415-pe8qo]

@@dmnddog7417I’ve lived here for SIXTY YEARS sweetheart. And I wouldn’t live anywhere else sorry you couldn’t handle it .

[@SeaBassTian]

The above ground Muni Metro seems like an elegant way to see the city. And it seems as if it goes through some really gorgeous parts. Really need to prioritize a trip to Sanfran ton check this out. Also Thom, your knowledge of train vehicles is truly impressive!

[@Thom-TRA]

The views were definitely my favorite part. And thank you so much!!

[@edsidawi1448]

J Church heading downtown from balboa is the best.

[@MikeCohenSF]

I take the N all the time. It stops right in front of my house.

[@dianethulin1700]

@@edsidawi1448 that’s my favorite! Especially when it’s passing through Delores Park by Mission High School. I used to sit backwards on the old cars for that view. It used to be dangerous right there and you would witness drug dealing by the tracks. About 30 years ago

[@mdhh7859]

I use to just ride around all day just to sightsee lol

[@catylynch7909]

Thank you. I haven't ridden on the Central Muni Metro, yet. I live in the Richmond district, and that's going to be an exploration adventure. However, I grew up on the N Judah line. We lived on 5th Avenue, between Lincoln and Irving. I recall that the ride downtown, AFTER the tunnel, seemed interminable. There was a stop, every two blocks, on an already crowded Market St., to Powell. (That was a long time ago.) The first time I took the "N," after Muni Metro was in place, I was shocked ... and pleasantly so! Like BART, it just "zip" from stop to stop. I love it. Now, living in the Richmond, I often drive to the Sunset and take the "N," from the Carl/Cole area. Even with the drive, It can be faster than the 38 Geary ... and, I can get to my car to unload packages.

[@isroying]

10:47 Chinatown station is deep because Central Subway has to cross Market St below MUNI Market St Subway and BART. And then they have to go uphill, which light rail has limited capacity, and Chinatown station is rather close to Market St and Union Square. Yerba Buena Station isn't deep at all, and not far from the street level Brannan Staton.

[@thefareplayer2254]

“Mr. Crocs is about to find out the hard way” is a magnificent sentence.

[@Thom-TRA]

Print it on a t-shirt

[@lbrookesahm465]

As a youngster, I used to love riding the metro steps.

[@DennisSmithAIStockImageClub]

Rode the Central Subway in March staying at the Luma. Love public transportation in San Francisco.

[@Thom-TRA]

I love it too!

[@mariannej8454]

It's good to know that there's a good way to commute and tour in San Francisco, riding on trains efficiently and inexpensively to key places. Thank you for sharing.

[@duomaxwell00]

Wow. Surprising to see how clean the trains are. I wish our brand new LRT cars looked this clean all the time. Wonder how BART trains look. Here in LA our Light Rail trains despite being just a few years old, always look dirty and trashed. Our HRT cars look even worse. LA Metro needs to clean up its act. Can't wait to go back to SF soon to check out the Central Subway.

[@jorggastel1312]

First one! Thanks again Thom for all your informative and entertaining videos!

[@Thom-TRA]

You’re welcome!

[@wlogan2000]

I just found this video, and I'm glad you had a great time riding Muni here in San Francisco! Someone else already pointed out that the "weird little critter" you saw in Golden Gate Park (at 3:28) is a gopher. FYI, Golden Gate Park also has a colony of Great Blue Herons. Sometimes you'll see a heron waiting patiently for a gopher to appear; they'll just jam their beak in the hole to grab the gopher and then swallow it whole!

[@UNDERTAKER2621]

I gotta try this the next time I go there

[@Thom-TRA]

It’s so convenient

[@UNDERTAKER2621]

@@Thom-TRA it really looks so

[@TrainmasterSP-qk2lo]

Great video! Brings back many memories when I lived in San Francisco, and rode Muni Metro everyday! The best part was the fact that I lived across from Delores Park, and the J Line ran along side of it! There are two stops along the park, and one of them was directly front of my house! It made commuting in the city so easy!

[@Thom-TRA]

A stop in front of your house is very lucky!

[@BenSmithHuugs]

Love trains, love metro, love your videos. Thank you! I live in SF and these were educational and relaxing.

[@Thom-TRA]

So glad to hear this!

[@bushkies]

funny fact about the new MUNI rolling stock: the bell sound isn’t an actual bell, just a recording of the older train’s bell playing out of a speaker.

[@Thom-TRA]

That’s hilarious. I think a lot of European trams are doing that too.

[@janettemcclelland2959]

The only good thing about the old Boeing cars was the ting-a-ling-a-ling of the bell.

[@ballyhigh11]

I also LOVE the two note piano chime that precedes the announcements of the trains arriving at the platform on the Market street subway Muni stations. High-low for inbound and low-high for outbound. For some reason I've always found it rather classy and very San Francisco! Please tell me they've retained this for the new Central Subway.

[@janettemcclelland2959]

@@ballyhigh11 I miss the female automated voice announcer. "Outbound train,2 car N followed by 2 car M in...4...minutes..."

[@ballyhigh11]

@@janettemcclelland2959 have they dropped the voice altogether or just changed it?

[@Lunyaaaa]

It was fun to see the metro stations I commute through every day! I can't drive and really appreciate the transit here.

[@Thom-TRA]

It’s so great to have transit!

[@teecefamilykent]

Brilliant video sir.

[@Thom-TRA]

Thank you kind sir

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

It definitely is nice when stations have pretty cool artwork to honor the neighborhoods or attractions they serve! Like Museum station on the Toronto subway as they have columns referencing a different part of history, like Forbidden City columns, Parthenon columns, Osiris columns, Toltec columns, and even Pacific Northwest-style columns! The Tashkent Metro does an exceptional job honoring Uzbek history, from the Silk Road to the empires that once ruled over it. Each station tells a story. Some look like ballrooms with huge chandeliers hanging from the ceiling while others look like a film set from a science fiction movie. And of course the Pyongyang Metro artwork is incredible too. At Yonggwang (Glory) station, its chandeliers represent the fireworks that celebrated the Koreans' victory, and the pillars are sculpted in the shape of victory torches. At Kwangbok (Liberation) station, there are murals showing scenes of the forest from which Kim Il-sung led guerrilla anti-Japanese attacks.

[@adisario]

Thank you for immersing us in San Francisco. The underground city is fascinating to me. More maps please! I loved following you around the city, but I actually had no idea where you were much of the time.

[@Thom-TRA]

Pull up Google maps as you watch!

[@jeffsey500]

Come visit Calgary and see our S200s. It's like the backwards Muni metro where downtown is on street and suburban is grade separated

[@peterfrey6062]

this is really your best that I've seen. GREAT photography, but then again, SF is a very photogenic city. Good facts on the MUNI system, which compares with Philly's subway-surface LRVs, for which Septa has plans for upgraded vehicles in the near future (which is Septa-ese for "eventually") Anyway, the F-line PCC cars is also a great way to see this beautiful city. Kudos, again for a great job.

[@robertwarren4526]

Pleasant surprise, at 4:01 see the green and brown picket fence. I built them in ’21. Excellent video. Great commentary and satisfying photography.

[@Thom-TRA]

Wow! My compliments on the fence

[@officialmcdeath]

That joyous tram bell is so reassuring and reminds me of many happy days in European cities, unlike the dystopian clang of the HBLR - loved that self-levelling step, RIP Mr Crocs \m/

[@eannamcnamara9338]

I can't think of a picture that fits the quaint California Americana stereotype I have than the shot at 4:13 . The single floor shops, the short trees, the retro car, clear skies and a streetcar. It's such a lovely shot that single handedly makes me want to move there lol

[@Thom-TRA]

I was very charmed by the city!

[@megatubeman123]

Awesome video!!!!

[@Thom-TRA]

Thank you!

[@this_jedi_crafts6626]

Love the video - brought back so many memories from growing up there. Glad you two got to see Golden Gate Park. In the Richmond, there is also Sutro Park (and the Cliff House) but it's no where near the scale (or length) of Golden Gate Park. Excited to share this video (and I'm sure the future ones of San Fran) with my sister - she will be blown away by the improvements and expansions you brought to light in the vlog. Thanks for the great content and continued safe travels for you two!

[@dianethulin1700]

I love hiking over there at Lands End. It’s hard to believe that path was once a cable car line

[@Thom-TRA]

I’d like to more thoroughly explore some of the many neighborhoods next time I’m in town. It seems like they have a lot of charm.

[@flyingmolamola]

I like Sutro Park, it’s pretty big, but not nearly as big as Golden Gate Park, but still nice.

[@johnp1937]

The J Church is my favorite of the Muni Metro streetcar lines. It leaves the road to go through Delores Park and then winds along a narrow right of way between houses before rejoining the street. . . . When I lived in SF I had the monthly pass which allowed me to ride the cable cars free of charge. I sometimes commuted via the California Street cable car.

[@londonwhaley8690]

I enjoyed that video👍👍

[@Thom-TRA]

Thank you!

[@anthonycurzi7521]

Thanks!

[@Thom-TRA]

Thank YOU!

[@jealousofmypuddin]

It will interesting what possible future rail extensions will look like as some proposed alignments tunnel under the Central Subway to reach Geary and points West. We’ve yet to connect rail to the Transbay Terminal as well.

[@VictorLaszlo46]

I love MUNI and BART, I practically stopped driving.

[@Thom-TRA]

That’s great!

[@UnReal31337]

The Breda trains are the worst, something like 10k miles before they need to go back to the shop and they always got put out of service because of tech issues also the central subway was only specd for 2 car trains when it runs through some of the densest neighborhoods in the city/west coast and can be extended to other popular neighborhoods

[@roberthicks6161]

Hello, Thom. I very much enjoyed your video essay on San Francisco's new subway line and its Muni light rail/streetcar system. I'm fascinated by new developments in public transport in this country where we prioritize highways, so I was glad to learn of the brand new central line. But in this case, as a former Bostonian, I was even more intrigued by your portrait of the Muni which seems to me like a west coast cousin to Boston's Green Line. So I followed up by seeing what you had to say about the latter. Your comments were astute and I felt some nostalgia for those old, slow cars. Both networks are based on legacy infrastructure developed mostly in early 20th century but adapted for current needs. Both networks start as light rail in downtown central business district tunnels, then branch out to surface street car lines. Like you, I think it is good practice for cities to build on their historic installations to repurpose them for modern usage. I just wish Boston had a westbound BART equivalent to accompany the Green Line trains which run partly on center of street right-of-ways, and can be slow going once they leave the tunnels.

[@Thom-TRA]

Muni felt very similar to the Green Line!

[@RaymondHng]

San Francisco and Boston are only two of the many cities that built PCC streetcar systems. Other cities were Toronto, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Baltimore, Kansas City, Los Angles, Minneapolis, Brooklyn & Queens, Cleveland, Birmingham, and San Diego were some of these other cities. Toronto, Boston, SF, and Philadelphia are some of the remaining ones.

[@serria864]

The Muni is really a neat service, spent late december through new years this last winter and our airbnb was right on the street line, and they had flag stops on the street, which i'd heard of, but *never* realized was still in service. Honestly i may go back to frisco just because of how easy it is to get around.

[@Thom-TRA]

Do it!

[@ck4426]

It’s awesome how many transit options San Francisco has!! What a huge construction project that tunnel must have been!! It’s so awesome that they still have streetcars on the original tracks. Thanks for this awesome video showing the different transit options!!

[@blackie-jm9tr]

Fantastic video, thank you very much! They should play it on PBS. "Mr. Crocks"... that was funny.

[@PrimeTimeTravelers]

We took BART on our San Francisco trip from Millbrae to Powell every day of our stay. We stayed at Millbrae because hotels were a LOT cheaper there. We would do it again but always hear that SF is so unsafe anymore especially riding BART. Looked good in your videos!

[@Thom-TRA]

It’s really not nearly as bad as the media says

[@PrimeTimeTravelers]

@@Thom-TRA Yeah we were told to be weary on our 2019 visit but we didn't encounter anything bad. We saw homeless people but sadly that is everywhere these days

[@hkraytai]

I live here and the BART safety issue is complete bullshit. The reason why downtown is empty thus public transportation which serves the area like BART is because 70% of employees are working remote due to the pandemic and they are not coming back.

[@jogiff]

@@hkraytaiBART might be dangerous around 11 PM. I’ve never been victimized because I’m a large male, but I see plenty of literal crackheads and drunks around that time.

[@jogiff]

Millbrae has by far my least favorite BART station. I was shocked at how it’s designed.

[@chaklee435]

The existing 8 bus serves basically the same route as the central subway expansion, and is usually faster, especially once you count escalator time. So while the central subway is nice to look at and demonstrates some potentially useful technology, the short expansion from union square to Chinatown is just generally not an improvement for many users. I think the light rail really needs to get off the street to compete in speed against buses on the highway.

[@Thom-TRA]

It should also get extended farther north

[@dominicwroblewski5832]

No visit to Haight-Ashbury ? As a Dead Head it would be my first stop.

[@jogiff]

The trains don’t want to go through the busier streets if at all possible, so no trains on Haight. It’s mostly stores anyway, you’ll get more of an authentic hippie experience if you go to hippie hill in the park, about a block west

[@RaymondHng]

@@jogiff That is incorrect. Market Street Railway was a private, commercial bus and streetcar transit operator in 1857-1944. It operated the 6 Haight and Masonic streetcar line right through Haight Street. Once the largest transit operator in the city, the company folded in 1944 and its assets and services were acquired by the city-owned San Francisco Municipal Railway. Many of the former streetcar routes (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 14, 19, 21, 22, 31, 33) continue to exist today, but served by electric trolley buses. Streetcar service on the 6 Haight ended in 1948 under Muni and became the 6 Haight/Parnassus trolleybus. The Muni Metro N Judah streetcar line goes through the Sunset tunnel built in 1926-1928 underground Buena Vista Hill. Haight Street is a four-block walk from Cole and Carl where the N Judah emerges from the tunnel.

[@jasonwyland5198]

On the main subway there was a time when multiple routes would bd connected so like some rail systems in Europe you had to be sure you boarded the service you needed.

[@Mike__B]

Love the T-line, when I had to have physical therapy done the office was in Chinatown, and it was so convenient to take the T there. But yeah, the whole Powell station is one of those perfect transit hubs, you have the north/south running trams going through there, you have BART trains going through there, and then you have central subway T-line crisscrossing through it (short walk from the other platforms). Also if you transfer from another form of transit, BART, Caltrain, Ferry, another county bus service in SF there is a discount on the fare as long as you ride Muni within an hour or two, doesn't apply to the day pass though which IMO all visitors should be getting just for value as you're most likely out last the 2 hour window for free transfers

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks for the helpful fare tip!

[@AshmewStudios]

@@Thom-TRA Starting next year, there will be free transfers between BART and Muni. So if you transfer from BART to Muni it'll be free, and transfers from Muni to BART will mean a $2.50 discount on BART

[@Thom-TRA]

@@AshmewStudios finally!

[@gbassman5341]

I love taking Muni from my aunt's near the zoo across the city to Giants games. Saves a lot on parking! I've always loved BART/Muni a lot. San Francisco is a wonderful city; I've been going all my life, and there's still plenty I haven't seen!

[@Thom-TRA]

I can’t wait to go back myself. How’s the zoo?

[@RaymondHng]

@@Thom-TRA Lions and tigers and bears. Oh my.

[@mariovieira838]

Nuce Vídeo. Muni has some resemblances with Oporto metro

[@Thom-TRA]

Yes, there are certainly plenty of resemblances!

[@jasonwyland5198]

There is one other train that may be worth checkinb out - the Smart Train Marin-Sonoma counties including a bike path

[@Thom-TRA]

Next time I’m in the area I will definitely do this! Too much to see and not enough time to see it all

[@tingummywut]

5:30 There's actually a whole variety of seating arrangements. The earliest LRV4s have the longitudinal seating which many activists and riders hated because people would slide around on them and were uncomfortable. Newer vehicles have a mix of transverse and longitudinal, all with a more bucket seat for better comfort!

[@Thom-TRA]

Yeah I definitely had the older seats

[@jacobsockness571]

There was a top patio with a decent view on top of the Chinatown Station, surprised you missed it.

[@Thom-TRA]

Good to know for next time

[@rebeccawinter472]

I like the hybrid high floor style of the MUNI trains. Compared to the (soon to open) Line 5 in Toronto, which is a hybrid tram/light rail lifht. Here they opted for low floor vehicles which is going to reduce capacity long term. In contrast the C trains in Calgary use high floor vehicles which have elevated platforms even at street level (akin to the acceccible platforms on MUNI). Lots of different ways to set it up and all have pros and cons. But high floor will always have higher capacity.

[@RalphBarbagallo]

Wow I remember when they first started building this new line seemingly a zillion years ago. Good to see it operating!

[@Thom-TRA]

Hard to believe we’re both a zillion years old now. How time flies!

[@holdon4992]

The new rebranded T line stations are nice. The escalator down to some takes a full minute. The T line ends at Chinatown instead of going all the way to North Beach as the local businesses and residents there would like. Maybe someday it’ll get extended…

[@Thom-TRA]

I hope for an extension!

[@jd3422]

It is so stupid that they never extended it all the way to the Wharf.

[@holdon4992]

@@jd3422 Money and politics. Always the top priority for any project. Maybe someday…

[@TrainsFerriesFeet]

"Mr Crocs". ;)

[@middletransport]

A few interesting tidbits as a local: 1) the new LRV 4s are having their sideways bench seats replaced already by new individual seats with more grip due to passengers complaining about sliding around on them while the train is moving, and half of the seats are being turned to be forward facing. 2) much of the original surface sections existing as streetcar lines is due to dedicated ROWs existing along the line the makes turning them into buses impractical, thus saving the entire line. For the N-Judah’s case, that piece of infrastructure would be the orange facaded Sunset Tunnel you showed in the video (where the trains also run really slow due to trespasser concerns). 3) The T-Third in its entirety is a completely new line opened in 2007, and used to run into the Market St Subway through running with the K-Ingleside before the Central Aubway opened. A service that recently briefly got revived when APEC closed off the Moscone station! 4) All T-Third surface stops, the N stops along the Embarcadero to Caltrain, and the 2 M stops at SFSU and Stonestown have full length level boarding high platforms mainly for accessibility reasons, but for the 2 M stops it was more for crowding reasons from SFSU students. 5) The Market St tunnel is directly connected to the older Twin Peaks streetcar tunnel (the section of subway between Castro and West Portal), and MUNI runs an S-Shuttle service during weekday peak hours within the tunneled section between West Portal and Embarcadero for extra service. The S-Shuttle moniker also appears in the Central Subway as a game day shuttle between Chinatown and Chase Center on game days only. 6) The tunneled sections all use ATO (West Portal to Embarcadero, Chinatown to the portal just past Moscone Center), kinda similar to a modern subway train. That is why trains stop at the tunnel portals to make the changeover between ATO and manual driving. 6) Muni is notorious for being one of the slowest transit systems in the country, with an average speed of less than 10mph. It was so bad on the T-Third (only 15 years old mind you) that Muni revived the bus line it replaced and made it a limited stop express line to complement the Third Street corridor. This is how the 15 bus was reborn as the 15-Bayview Express. Aside from lack of signal priority, the slow running speed on the surface is also a contributing factor.

[@Thom-TRA]

Appreciate this! Has the new seating arrangement made them feel more crowded?

[@middletransport]

@@Thom-TRA I wouldn't say so, however the majority of the fleet got single forward facing seats, meaning it's a net loss of seat space but they don't eat into aisle space. However, about a 1/3 of the fleet is getting pairs of forward facing seats, and those will eat into aisle space. Since they are rare and just coming into the system, I haven't really had the opportunity to properly experience them yet so no idea how that impacts crowdedness. The old Bredas have double seats but they're notably also wider than the Siemens.

[@Videowatcher10p]

Philadelphia 🤝 San Francisco Trollies sharing a tunnel with a subway under a Market Street

[@Thom-TRA]

Twinning!

[@kevanhubbard9673]

Those tunnels are pretty deep but I suppose that San Francisco is quite a hilly city so tunnels are going to be deep.The Minsk Metro 🚇 is supposed to have the deepest tunnels on Earth of any metro.

[@Thom-TRA]

Yeah just like in DC, the tunnel could stay level but if the hills are big the stations are still very deep!

[@dianethulin1700]

They are! I take the elevator there but you have to take two elevators to get to street surface. I don’t usually do those steps

[@rossr6616]

I heard Kyiv has 200 m deep station 😮

[@tylermcintyre1454]

Tyler Mac we need the market in San Francisco

[@admachina]

You mentioned the Muni day pass. The website seems to indicate that this needs to be purchased through the app or with cash at the farebox. Does it also work with Clipper? Do they just not charge the third fare effectively?

[@_mball_]

The day pass does not work with Clipper, as best I know. It's actually pretty unfortunate. MUNI needs to introduce price caps...

[@stevenedwards3754]

Muni Metro and historic streetcar lines are designated by a letter and a name. You rode on the N Judah and T Third lines. The other Metro lines are J Church, K Ingleside, L Taraval, M Oceanview and (sometimes S Shuttle). Historic streetcars are F Market and E Embarcadero. Bus and trolleybus lines have numbers and names. Cable car lines just have names. But colors shown on maps are just for visual clarity, so don't ask a local for directions to the'Orange line, Purple line etc. because nobody will know what you are talking about. By the way, the reason the T line is so deep is that it had do cross under the BART which is under the Metro, which is under Market Street. And the tunnel boring machine that built it is parked at the northern end of the line waiting to someday dig the extension to North Beach and beyond.

[@Bobphx]

hi Thom, a few questions. First, it appears that when the trains are in the subway, they run on 3rd rail, and the pantograph is retracted. Is that correct? Next, what are the buttons on the handgrip poles inside the cars used for? If this was a bus, it would be to signal a stop. But why inside a metro car?

[@Thom-TRA]

They run with a pantograph the entire way, there is just very little clearance. And during street running, it operates like a tram, so you can request stops!

[@joserivera-yc5rr]

Thank you for sharing Thom, about the newest rail line in San Francisco, very interesting information for me, thanks!

[@Thom-TRA]

You’re welcome!

[@lbrookesahm465]

Have you heard about or seen the abandoned Twin Peaks tunnel station?

[@janettemcclelland2959]

Eureka Valley just west of Castro. I used to get on the K at that stop when I was a kid in the 60's.

[@jd3422]

@@janettemcclelland2959 The Eureka Street stop was just a few blocks west of Castro. You can see the former platform there when you travel through it.

[@brettlarch8050]

This city, Chicago, New York, are the top three cities I recommend if you want to go to an American city for public transit.

[@Thom-TRA]

Add Washington DC to that list and you’re done

[@tedmiles2110]

San Franciso is one of four or five American cities that never stopped using streetcars and new Light Rail Vehicles. Now that the Covid-19 Pandemic is windind down i shall have to ride the Central Subway. TM Muni Clipper Card User

[@Thom-TRA]

I’m very glad they kept (some of) their tracks

[@history_leisure]

I think the Baxter's on That So Raven also lived in one of the Painted Ladies

[@Thom-TRA]

Could be!

[@deaventuraconkikomas4281]

Me too... I used to like that serie a lot, but the little girls grew up.

[@matthewharty6531]

great video, you should have gone over the bridge to visit Sausolito, really nice journey and a beautiful seaside town.

[@rossr6616]

we pushed for years for a train hung beneath the Golden Gate road deck, but in the end officials said it would be too heavy; maybe a Hyperloop some day!

[@CorcoranDavid]

Boston has a pretty similar sized and layed out light rail system. But it is so pathetically slow compared to SF Muni!

[@Thom-TRA]

Even slower than Muni, that’s an accomplishment

[@CorcoranDavid]

@Thom-TRA I just know when I was there, it seemed way more rapid than the green line..at least in the downtown underground part. I think Boston could greatly improve speed and frequency..maybe in the next few years best of luck to Phillip Eng! Anyway I really enjoy your videos!

[@tesh.0464]

Breda cars 1400 - 1476 are LRV2s. 1477 and up are LRV3s. Slight modifications between the two. 8:48

[@BirbarianHomeGuard]

It’s poetic that wounds of racism and railroad exploitation are healed by the chinatown subway ❤

[@Thom-TRA]

And it’s even better because this was lobbied for by a local activist who wanted transit after a highway was bulldozed

[@micosstar]

3:30 awww

[@markplott4820]

MUNI used to have a Metro line that ran from Fort Mason , through the "dirty harry" Tunnel (Fort Mason ) to SF Maritime and ran on the F - Market wharves rails. there is hopes that MUNI will Reopen this Historic Tunnel to MUNI Riders. this would Enable access those in Pier 39 to Fort Mason by MUNI.

[@howardng8534]

That will not be possible within our lifetime! Infrastructure planning and building take a very long time in America. The high speed train from San Francisco to Los Angeles is an example.

[@markplott4820]

@@howardng8534 - Boring co tunnels are better anyway.

[@jamisonwieser]

Great video! Now about that long wait at 4th & King... The T-Third Street is (or was) the only line with full-ish signal priority, but it had to be disabled at 4th & King/Caltrain because it proved to create more problems than it solved. From when it opened in 2007 to the Central Subway's full opening in January 2023, the T-line turned onto King Street and into the Market Street Subway. Initially, as a separate line, then as an extension of the K-Ingleside, it added more problems to a system over capacity at an already complicated intersection. It's a freeway on/offramp, a major transit hub, high volumes of pedestrians, requires long signal times, etc. The priority signaling system from the early 2000s is also pretty rudimental by today's standards, didn't work in a lot of situations anyway, and there was only so much the SFMTA could do until the Central Subway opened. Now that the T-Third Street and N-Judah cross perpendicular as they were always meant to, planners are probably doing what they can to tweak signal timing, but a real solution is a few years away. The SFMTA is preparing to install a modern communications-based train control (CBTC) system that didn't exist when the T-line started construction in the early 2000s across the city-wide light rail system starting next year with that segment of the T-Third Street and N-Judah.

[@Thom-TRA]

I didn’t know this! Thanks for shedding light on the history of this intersection.

[@michaelmcenery7515]

amazing how clean the stations are if this was NY there would be garbage on the tracks and graffitti all over the tunnell walls

[@jhoreb6363]

Gracias a los latinos esta una mird new york ajajajaj😂😂😂😂 todo Gracias a los latinoamericanos chinos de nacimiento.

[@Blank00]

Do you think Cleveland’s future S200s will have the same moving steps mechanism?

[@seprishere]

Why does the MUNI logo remind me of the old GMPTE logo (Greater Manchester have since changed both the logo and the name of the agency)?

[@jathnaeltaylor1694]

There is quite the history to the Muni worm. They tried to replace it in the mid 90s and oh boy was there ever backlash.

[@seprishere]

@@jathnaeltaylor1694Actually it seems GMPTE (now "Transport for Greater Manchester") retain a worm, though just an "M". Also they are the "bee network". West Midlands Travel did briefly say "We've still got the BUZZ" but it didn't stick.

[@Thom-TRA]

The worm is an iconic logo. Glad there was backlash lol.

[@AshmewStudios]

The T-Third on the street running segment is painful to ride. There's stops practically every other block with zero signal priority or preemption. It's so bad that Muni added the 15 Bayview Express to run as an express service with less stops alongside the T-Third. It seems highly illogical that the bus is treated as the express and the train is the "local" service. Buses are able to accelerate faster and the train has the special right of way in the median along Third St. Despite being the newest line in the system, it suffers from the same speed issues as the other lines. Also when the train is in the tunnel, it is FAST. It takes roughly 15 minutes to get from West Portal to downtown which is really, really fast for Muni. And the reason those light rail lines still exist is because all of them (with the exception of T-Third) run in tunnels under hills. Replacing those with buses would have been too slow. That's why they retain the old lettering of J, K, M, N, and L. Those lines have existed before they replaced nearly all the streetcars into buses. I did read somewhere that there's a plan to underground the N Judah all the way to 8th and Irving, but considering the speed SFMTA builds, it'll probably be built in a couple decades.

[@janettemcclelland2959]

Muni should have never gotten rid of the original 15 bus to begin with.

[@AshmewStudios]

@@janettemcclelland2959 But I think what they should do is speed up the train and have the 15 act as the local route and the train act as the express

[@janettemcclelland2959]

@@AshmewStudios Exactly!

[@dancingwiththestars3778]

We can Extended The Underground N Judah Start At Duboce + Church,Cole Valley,UCSF Parnassus and Inner Sunset and to 19th Ave + Judah with Full Underground on N Judah Line From Duboce + Church to 19th Ave + Judah with 3,4,5 and/or 6 Car LRT 🚊🚃

[@DoubleH2279]

Awesome, I’ve been wanting to learn more about this!

[@Thom-TRA]

I’m glad!

[@lukeskywalker6338]

the anuoncments sounds like the mbta commuter rail in Boston

[@dianethulin1700]

It’s interesting that you can see the cars turning right into the crosswalk by CalTrain at Third Street and King. That right hand lane is now blocked off after the fatality of a child in w stroller. You can see that in order for drivers to see oncoming traffic they have to go into the crosswalk because Safeway obstructs their vision. They have removed all evidence of the crash scene but I have pictures of the ghost stroller. I live downtown but work in Mission Bay. I am on this train about five days a week

[@Thom-TRA]

What a sad story. Glad they’re putting safety first now.

[@Jonathan48948]

Very Convenient To Chase- Center?

[@topliner9534]

The reason the Central Subway is so deep is that it needs to pass under BOTH the Muni Metro and BART levels when it crosses Market Street.

[@Thom-TRA]

Makes sense

[@frankbernotimm3031]

I have questions: What kind of sleepers are used in the tunnel? As far as I know, there are only very few (ICE) lines here in Germany. As far I could have seen, the trains use their Pantographs in the Tunnel but with lower space. Is that right?

[@teiasherman]

Yay for the N! So cool to see my neighborhood featured ❤ Nice shots of the city too

[@Thom-TRA]

I had a great time there! Y’all are so friendly in these comments I’ll have to come back soon

[@MrJoeairman2000]

I remember the orange muni trains in the 80's. All dirty and covered with graffiti inside and out. Windows, seats, ceilings, lol ...my friends and I used to ride em home from high school. We used to wonder how they were able to tag the trains top to bottom. Lol.

[@Thom-TRA]

There are some tags in places where I’m like idk how anyone got up there

[@wmtrader]

I'm looking forward to seeing your review of the SMART train in the North Bay, Caltrain along the peninsula, and VTA light rail in Santa Clara Valley (Silicon Valley).

[@Thom-TRA]

Wow you really just mentioned the two systems I didn’t do on this trip

[@wmtrader]

@@Thom-TRA - Too bad you would have had a nice ride across the bay on a ferry if you'd gone on SMART and could have stopped for lunch in Petaluma. A ride on the VTA light rail could have been done on the same day you rode Caltrain by getting off at the Mountain View station, taking VTA to downtown San Jose, and then walking a few blocks to the San Jose Caltrain/Amtrak station.

[@dianethulin1700]

Me too! Also ferry service

[@catman422]

The SMART train is really pretty. I took it from Larkspur to Santa Rosa once to check it out.

[@Thom-TRA]

@@wmtrader I do really want to do smart someday

[@Thommygun-qv7um]

That network reminds me to the combined netwoks in german cities like Frankfurt a.M., Munich, Leipzig and with some caveats, Berlin and Hamburg. In Frankfurt for example you have the S-Bahn as a regional network, complimented with regional train services and the city itself has an extensive tram and subway network. And Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof is the biggest hub for long distanfe trains in germany. Quite near is germanys biggest airport. You guys should visit it someday...

[@Thom-TRA]

It reminded me a lot of the U-Bahn in places like Duisburg and Köln too!

[@IamTheHolypumpkin]

And we probably have one of the strangest liveries. Subaru Vista Blue (or dark turquoise). Many people hate the livery but I grown rather fond of it. Is very unique and you can see your transit vehicle approaching from very far as there’s nothing else on the streets with the colors.

[@inerdt]

Hey, glad someone else brought that up too! I grew up on the line U5 in Frankfurt which had high and low platforms much like San Francisco, running with Ptb cars that also had the folding steps. Until 2016, all the platforms above ground had been converted to high platforms and these days, they are being served by the regular light rail cars (almost exclusively U5 class). Hannover and Stuttgart are examples of Cities that converted their entire former tram network to high-floor vehicles and high platforms.

[@IndustrialParrot2816]

Bart is actually classified as the same type of system as an S-Bahn

[@charlesbaran1106]

In both New York and San Francisco you can take an N train to the ocean.

[@gregoryedwards8781]

How was the city?

[@Thom-TRA]

Loved it. One of my favorite cities in the US.

[@sjswitzer1]

The critter was a pocket gopher

[@Thom-TRA]

He was very friendly

[@rikkichunn8856]

A fascinating tour of the Muni Metro lines! They did indeed begin as streetcar lines, but with some "proto-light-rail" touches. For example, there were two long tunnels. One is the Sunset Tunnel on the N Judah, the tunnel that connects the outer portion of the route on Judah St. to the inner portion on Duboce St. The other, longer tunnel is the Twin Peaks tunnel, that connects West Portal station with an old East Portal station where the line surfaced and ran down Market Street. In the tunnel, there were two stations. One of those stations is Forest Hill. Here the tracks are so deeply underground that there are elevators rather than escalators to get between the tracks and the surface. The reason for the station was the nearby old ladies' home (now a city hospital). Cute little miniature Muni buses ran between the hospital and the station. While those in good shape could walk the distance (about a quarter mile or half a kilometer) most of the elderly who lived in the home could not. The station house is a quaint early example of Mission Revival architecture. West of West Portal, the three lines run on the surface. But here again, the K and M lines have some off-street running south of St. Francis circle. The M line in particular goes off-street, crossing Ocean Avenue at a rather blind grade crossing. Does it have crossing gates currently? It should. For most of its existence the crossing was protected only by signs. But the Muni Metro lines are not the oldest examples of electric streetcars in the city. The Municipal Railway, as its name implies, was built by the city of San Francisco. But it was built to offer competition to the older, privately owned Market Street Railway. Streetcars on the MSR ran on numbered lines, while Muni lines had the letters they have now. When the MSR finally went bankrupt and was taken over by the Muni, most of those lines were converted to buses or trolley buses. Most of them retain the same route numbers. The Muni operated several streetcar lines that have not survived intact. Before the Muni took it over, down the center of Geary Street ran a steam railroad called the Geary Street, Parks, and Ocean Railroad. It ran three routes that went to Golden Gate Park and the Cliff House. The Muni took it over and electrified it. This was the A, B, and C lines. Pressure from automobile traffic in the 1950s forced the median of Geary Street to be paved over and the lines converted to buses. The other lost Muni streetcar line was the F Stockton line. It ran through a relatively short tunnel under a hill. The tunnel was later paved so it could be shared with automobiles and the streetcars were replaced with trolley buses. So why does San Francisco have so much electric transit? Well, it seems that the city of San Francisco built a dam called Hetch Hetchy dam, which is actually located in Yosemite National Park. It produced copious quantities of hydroelectric power. The city wanted to take over the private power company, Pacific Gas and Electric. Problem was, PG&E didn't want to sell their lucrative business. So, the city approached them about buying the electricity produced by Hetch Hetchy. They didn't want to buy that either. So, the only thing the city could do with its electric power was to power city buildings and transit lines. As a result, San Francisco is one of the few cities that has actually converted some diesel bus routes to trolleybuses. Hetch Hetchy dam, built in 1911, is still there, still providing Muni with electricity. It also provides San Francisco with its water supply, for drinking and so on.

[@Thom-TRA]

Does the power still come from that dam?

[@rikkichunn8856]

Hetch Hetchy dam, built in 1911, is still there, still providing Muni with electricity. It also provides San Francisco with its water supply, for drinking and so on.@@Thom-TRA

[@perry968]

Boston and Philadelphia are the other 2 cities that are like San Francisco

[@steve1reg]

Great video. And when in CA, you gotta have an In N Out Burger! They once were only So. Cal. But now they've gone up the coast!

[@Thom-TRA]

Animal Style fries are my favorite