eBART: The Strangest BART Extension

[@chasemartin4450]

The fact that Bay Area transit operators *deliberately introduced a gauge break into their regional rail system* completely blows my mind. Gauge breaks have been the source of so much hassle throughout the world, wouldn't we have learned by now that they should be avoided wherever possible?

[@Thom-TRA]

True. Great stuff to make a video about though. Lol.

[@dantamsky9712]

You're not transferring freight here, or even much baggage. I don't see it as such are terrible compromise to save lots of money.@@Thom-TRA

[@william2william]

The BART board of directors wanted a cheaper alternative to the 5' 6" gauge electrified BART trains and the 4' 8.5" gauge diesel trains made by Standler fit the bill.

[@IndustrialParrot2816]

It's not the worst thing the Subways and Streetcars in Toronto and Philadelphia both use broad gauge

[@chasemartin4450]

@@IndustrialParrot2816 Broad gauge on its own isn't much of a problem (although it still poses limitations with the availability of rolling stock) but gauge breaks are. Having part of your system run on standard gauge and another part run on broad gauge drastically complicates maintenance, rolling stock selection, schedule and route changes, etc.

[@Jorge.2004]

as someone who lives in the east bay but has never rode the e-bart this makes me want to ride it. and i was under the impression ebart stood for "extended bart". either way ive heard people say its ironic how normal bart is electric and ebart is not lol

[@Thom-TRA]

I used to think it stood for extension too. It wasn’t until I was researching for this video I found out otherwise!

[@aftbit]

Ah good memories. I worked about a 10 minute walk up Powell St for a few years, and a short MUNI trip down Embarcadero for a few more. I only took the cable car a handful of times while I lived in the bay, but I never had to pay for it. I definitely thought about jumping between the BART exit escalator and the MUNI platform when I was running late for the transfer, but I never had the guts. When I lived there, it was never called the Red or Yellow line, even though it should have been. I'm glad to see BART survived the pandemic - I saw ridership was down to 3% at one point!

[@Thom-TRA]

You deserve a medal for being a good upstanding citizen! Lol

[@ilovebart]

as a life long oakland resident and a transit lover i love these bart videos ❤

[@Thom-TRA]

Your username is @ilovebart so I take this as a huge compliment!

[@keithwillis3761]

I live near the Rockridge bart station. I always wondered why the trains looked so different at the Antioch extension. I remember when the bond passed for that extension and in the news they said there was not enough money to complete it. I guess that's how they did it . By going to a non-powered rail extension. I am old enough to witness the building of bart. I went to elementary school right next to the MacArthur bart station. At that time the trains were super plush with seats like in first class on Airplanes and carpeted floors. Was a different time. So maintaining the trains was not like now. You basically have to be able to water down the entire surfaces in the trains to keep them clean. Thanks for your content does explain the questions I had.

[@Thom-TRA]

Glad to provide some answers!

[@brycebundens6866]

It’s a cool solution to the suburban transit problem!! I mean it does make sense to have a lower capacity train out that far- aren’t BART trains are truly the largest, highest capacity rapid transit trains in America? This transfer seems like the ideal implementation for Maryland’s SMRT, augmenting WMATA with a light rail extension from Branch Ave!

[@Thom-TRA]

I would love for them to build a platform solution like this at Branch! Hopefully SMRT gets built asap

[@andrew_ray]

The only reason they did it this way is that the existing line to Antioch was standard gauge (4′ 8½″ / 1.435 m), and BART is... well, for some reason they designed BART to run on super-wide 5½′ / 1.676 m gauge track. It's kinda stupid.

[@jimstraveladventures3961]

This line was built new and Thom's explanation is correct.@@andrew_ray

[@andrew_ray]

@@jimstraveladventures3961 Then it is so monstrously stupid that everybody involved should be jailed for blatant corruption because nobody would ever think this was a good idea who wasn't getting some fat stacks under the table.

[@mypdf]

I think it is mostly just weird that they don't have the connection point at one of the stations next to this weird construct

[@willsnyder1321]

I used to be an eBART hater but I actually think the solution makes sense now. People in eastern Contra Costa County needed a transit connection but not necessarily a 10-car heavy rail rapid transit link. There is a limit to how far rapid rail systems can go outside of the core. In Philadelphia we have the Norristown High Speed Line, which acts as an extension of the Market Frankford Line into the burbs. 1-2 car operation makes sense for a line that serves 10k riders per day, while 6 car frequent operation on the MFL makes sense for a line that served 200k riders/day pre-COVID. However, the two lines have different gauge and third rail electrification systems.

[@Thom-TRA]

Appreciate the perspective! Norristown HSL has climbed to the top of my American transit bucket list since I crossed the Morgantown PRT off yesterday.

[@AllTheUrbanLegends]

It's funny there because the NHSL is standard gauge and the El is Pennsylvania trolley gauge. The difference is that they were built by competing railroads. Using a different gauge was a way to discourage takeovers or gov't mandated sharing. In BARTs case it's because they thought up the most expensive Regional Rail system you could possibly imagine. Then they built it.

[@Devilishlybenevolent]

My family lives in Antioch/Brentwood and we don't even use it, we just drive out to the pittsburg station. Its dumb to go to the Antioch station, pay more, wait, transfer. No convenience at all.

[@rjc_2001]

​@@Devilishlybenevolentsame. It's a joke. If ever we have gotten on the systems yellow line, we drive to Bay Point and board actual Bart. I tried using it to commute and regardless of destination it took longer and cost more, so nope.

[@drdewott9154]

I kinda get where you're coming from but he Norristown line is also much longer than e-bart and serves many more stations, rather than just 2. Like for a 2 stop extension, e-bart makes seemingly no sense other than optuse corner cutting! Especially since it doesnt connect to the Pittsburgh Bay point station properly which is gonna be awful for people walking or getting on buses to or from that station and continuing on e-bart. With extensions then maybe e-Bart makes sense. Possibly also with a proper connection to Pittsburgh bay point rather than this weird transfer platform.

[@five-toedslothbear4051]

It’s really wild that you can walk through the power pack. I would guess that the prime mover would take up all the space.

[@ARod4374]

Yup; my understanding (from how it's done on the FLIRTs, which I believe are descended from the GTWs) is that there are four small prime movers with individual alternators on them to power the traction motors, so each side has two engines and there's room for a corridor between them

[@nashorn9745]

@@ARod4374They are very different the traction motors are under the power pack with the gtw and under the cabs with the flirts

[@gdrriley420]

It’s because they use 1-4 smaller engines normally the size you’d see in trucks, farm equipment ect. 0-3 locations can have batteries to make the unit a hybrid or you can have no diesel engines and use hydrogen. Equipment to pickup overhead power can also be added in most configuration so tri mode is possible. GTW had been out of production for a while because it got too heavy. It’s been replaced by short FLIRTs called WINKs by some operators

[@darynvoss7883]

Maybe they should lock that thing lol

[@robertheinrich2994]

@@ARod4374 yes. this summer I rode a GTW (the GKB in austria graz-köflach-bahn). it was weird to walk through the power unit with its diesel generators. funnily enough, they were a project for stadler taylor made. and then so many other cities wanted them too, so they became a product line.

[@lucasstuart-chilcote7069]

I have been a critic of this since the planning meetings. The residents of Antioch have been paying BART property taxes for decades and we get a standard width track while they sell it as a 1 seat experience. Imagine commuting to/from work and you have to get up to transfer to another vehicle after being comfortable and resting. Imagine it being hot, cold, or raining. I often see from a car a lot of people waiting for the eBART train to arrive. I’ve waited on the platform for 5 minutes before and there’s limited to no seating on the transfer platform. All the while city of San Jose is getting a BART extension built with the wide tracks. It is very embarrassing and frustrating.

[@ZiggyTheHamster]

> The residents of Antioch have been paying BART property taxes for decades Everybody in Contra Costa County pays BART property taxes (and these are higher for those of us who live in more urban areas because the property values are higher). Everybody also pays the property taxes that pay for roads in cities we don't live in or use (and Antioch has more road surface than Richmond does, but you won't see me complaining about paying for Antioch roads). This is fundamentally how taxes work. I think your complaint might be that Contra Costa County - and counties in California in general - is too large, but I don't think you necessarily realize that. And I think it's entirely a fair assessment that west county and east county both end up in a worse position because the county is too large. Disco Bay and Brentwood would benefit from a connection to the San Joaquins Amtrak line via Stockton (resulting in a convenient commute to Sac and beyond), but adding the tax for this to the entire county would be wildly unpopular. Similarly, wBART will probably never happen because even if west county is OK subsidizing Solano County residents who will obviously use wBART now, east county wouldn't be. > All the while city of San Jose is getting a BART extension built with the wide tracks. It is very embarrassing and frustrating. Santa Clara County was not part of the original BART district, so had to finance the entire thing themselves. Because they have good sense, they financed building the full system. Contra Costa County could have done this as well, but too many people without a BART station in the county complained about their existing taxes not being enough to pay for the full system, and rather than temporarily raise the funds to build full BART, they had to make do with the existing taxes (despite the fact that pre-RR, these taxes were only ever meant to upkeep the un-extended original system, and clearly expansion is necessary and upkeep costs increase with the size and age of the system). I think a DMU/EMU system like they have for eBART could have been a good way to add service to areas which are underserved if they dual-gauged the track and ran another line... but this would require actual strategy and probably an additional tax, which clearly would fail because too many people feel like because they live in a far away suburb and pay the $30.86/yr in property taxes, that they should have a BART stop already without paying one cent more (your property tax cost may vary; $30.86/yr is what I pay... RR is an additional $55.30). If we had raised the tens of millions of dollars to actually make eBART a separate line which was dual gauged with BART track, we could have that line be something like Antioch to Hercules, and stop at Pittsburg/Bay Point, North Concord, Martinez/Amtrak xfer, maybe Crockett, maybe Rodeo, and terminate at Hercules (or perhaps go further to Pinole but Pinole doesn't quite have the free land anywhere but Point Pinole for a station). Basically it would share the right of way with the Capitol Corridor, but probably there would need to be an extra track which was separate from freight/Amtrak. And you could for a start just terminate at Martinez. You might not even mess with the N. Concord station either. There are already abandoned or underused rights of way which could get used, and the median is still an option if you have some route through the hills between 4 and downtown Martinez.

[@curtisalvin]

@@ZiggyTheHamstergreat breakdown, thank you

[@Cherries01]

Sorry, but as someone who lives and take Bart from Bay Point/Pittsburg, I enjoy the eBart extension because the trains are empty and I can get a seat lol, but if the regular cars goes all the way out to Antioch, there would barely be any seats for those who hop on at the Bay Point station. This just my selfish reasoning haha

[@Crunkboy415]

That's nothing. When I didn't have a car I used to commute from SF to Emeryville via Muni>BART>AC Transit then AC Transit>BART>Muni. Pretty much an hour and 15 minutes commute everyday. That's when the three arrived on time.

[@combusean]

That transfer platform is an absolute nightmare when things go awry. Trains get delayed and people physically can't leave the area.

[@Thom-TRA]

Is there no emergency exit?

[@Geotpf]

​@@Thom-TRAYou would get arrested for using it if there wasn't a fire or other emergency. The whole thing is, IMHO, stupid cost cutting. Considering current oil prices, I bet it even costs more to run the disesl trains that standard BART ones. Transfers should be avoided whenever possible. Likewise, I think ARROW should just be an extension of Metrolink San Bernardino Line.

[@rileyburnett720]

The project was funded by a measure on the ballot in contra Costa County . Contra costa was responsible for all the money because of this and they didn’t want to pay for same gauge expansion.

[@gdrriley420]

Early plans had it getting out of the median and using UP tracks located just to the north which they still might do for a future expansion of Ebart East/South

[@gdrriley420]

@@joeblow5214 double stacks and wires are very easy to do, wires just need to be up at like 23-24ft which some of the PRR stuff gets close to. 3rd rail is not something you want with grade crossings and in most cases it doesn't work with some railcar types

[@nastygoyenggg]

that separated transfer platform feels weirdly fancy 😄 and the stadler gtw trains look good! 👍🏼 love the idea of them put the machine separated with the passengers room

[@cici35official19]

I’ve been using the ebart transfer for nearly 4 years now. I remember when it wasn’t there and was excited when they finally built it because I lived in Antioch and hated having to catch the bus all the way to Pittsburg just to get on the train. That with the newly added Tri my Ride by Tri Delta transit has made public transportation easier for someone with driving anxiety like me.😊

[@Thom-TRA]

That's awesome to hear!

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

The edit of Mr. Krabs saying "✨MONEY✨" was so perfect....well played. The SpongeBob SquarePants Movie from 2004 remains a masterpiece. A station built with no entrance OR exit is Smallbrook Junction on the Isle of Wight. It opened in 1991, and it's unique because it exists as an interchange between the Island Line (which is part of the National Rail network) and a HERITAGE railway, the Isle of Wight Steam Railway! However, the station is expected to close, as the Isle of Wight Steam Railway has gone between Wootton and Smallbrook Junction, but their long-term aim is to go to Ryde St John's Road, thus no need for the station. Another is the former Manhattan Transfer. In November 1910, they opened a line through a pair of tunnels under the Hudson River to New York Penn Station. The PRR built the Manhattan Transfer station so passenger trains bound for New York Penn paused there so that their steam locomotives could be replaced by electric locomotives that could run through the tunnel under the river. The station also allowed passengers to change trains, which riders on the main line could transfer to local trains to Exchange Place. The H&M, the precursor to the PATH, started operating to Newark in 1911, with a stop at Manhattan Transfer. It closed in 1937, so what happened? Penn chose to electrify to Philadelphia, making the need to switch locomotives obsolete, and the PRR and Newark government chose to build Newark Penn Station.

[@Thom-TRA]

These facts are right on the money!

[@marcusdamberger]

So what happened to the Manhattan transfer station they used for these steam to electric trains transfer?

[@RichardGadsden]

On a tram rather than train system, there was Manchester Metrolink's Cornbrook stop, which had no exit or entrance from being built in 1999 until the entrances and exits opened in 2005. It's located on an island (in the river) that was, at the time it was built, completely undeveloped. It was intended for transfers between two different radial lines so passengers could come in on one and change to go out on the other without having to go into the city proper. A bunch of developers decided to purchase the island, drain it, and build a substantial development there (a couple of thousand flats), and they persuaded the operator to convert the fire exit into a proper entrance/exit in 2005.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

Besides the NJ Transit River Line, other North American systems where these Stadler GTWs are used include Denton's A-train and Austin's Capital MetroRail! As much of a BART oddity as it is, I still think it's pretty cool that they did this and building it in a highway median is an easy way to build stations. If you have the density to back it up AND have it enclosed in a way that you're protected from all that noise pollution like having platform screen doors, then it can be great design! Even better if there's a bus hub. The REM stations in Montreal do that, sharing the Champlain bridge with the highway, stations being bus hubs, and thus better connecting the suburbs. Stations without any exits or entrances is definitely an interesting concept. There's a station in Japan called Seiryu Miharashi-eki (for those who don't know: it translates to "Clear Stream Viewing Platform Station") that opened in 2019 and the platform simply exists to admire the views! Not every train on the Nishikigawa Seiryū Line stops there as it's only special trains that do. Metro-North Railroad does something similar as they have stations specifically built for hikers. These are Manitou and Breakneck Ridge on the gorgeous Hudson Line, and Appalachian Trail on the Harlem Line. With Appalachian Trail station being significant as it's the only rail station directly located on the Appalachian Trail.

[@Thom-TRA]

And if you take the Nishikigawa Railway all the way to the end of the line, you can take the “Toko Toko Train,” a ladybug-themed tram that goes through a tunnel with strange LED light decorations. It’s on my bucket list.

[@intrepidfox37]

A better example of a station without an entrance or exit on MNR would’ve been the Devon Transfer platform at the beginning of the Waterbury Branch when there was construction on the New Haven Line a few years ago. A brilliant idea to keep the service going during the track outages.

[@gregwilliams386]

Did you mention that Eastern Contra Costa county had paid BART fees and taxes for about 50 years without any service?

[@muzvid]

Inspired by this video, I finally made time to watch another one about BART that's been on my Watch Later list for a couple of months -- Tunnel Vision: An Unauthorized BART Ride. The film maker surreptitiously attached a camera to the front of a BART train and road it from SFO to the eBART transfer platform. He later added voiceovers, turning it into a documentary, a love letter to a mass transit system. It's 90 minutes long, but it's one of the best "cab ride" videos ever. If you think trains are awesome, I think you'll appreciate this. The last time I tried posting a link in a KZbin comment, my comment was removed by the bots for violating the spam policy. But if you search for "BART tunnel vision" you should be able to find it easily.

[@danielros7798]

8:53 Fellow Dutch person here, I ride on the Qbuzz GTWs every day, although they are electric, still cool to them there. All Stadler trains look alike and it's always cool to see one somewhere in a random place instantly reminding you of your local train back home. Did you know you can actually press the open door button before the train stops moving. The light will become green and the door will open immediately when the train stops moving. I found that out quite recently as well :D

[@Thom-TRA]

Sometimes when you travel through Europe it even gets a little boring seeing FLIRTs everywhere you go!

[@danielros7798]

@@Thom-TRA You can never FLIRT enough🥰

[@wrongbeans]

Being a regular BART commuter I didn't even know that they had different train on Antiock side! However I don't see anyone mentioning that we in the East Bay have been paying for BART 's Livermore extension for decades and we haven't seen anything yet!

[@captaindunsell8568]

In Switzerland… as you ride the various trains going from the lake into the highlands the trains get shorter and shorter until they are down to two cars

[@Sacto1654]

I also think this may make it possible to eventually extend the line as far east as Brentwood, CA at reasonable cost.

[@LeBasfondMusic]

I have lived here my entire life and had no idea eBART existed until this video 😅

[@Thom-TRA]

Time to plan a trip to try it out!

[@ianmckenna5252]

Thanks for the video! I find this and the Oakland Airport BART interesting oddities.

[@Thom-TRA]

Thank you so much!

[@thomaslautenberger6447]

I am a resident in the bay area. I have taken this line regularly since 2018. It is really quirky. Typically only every other train on the line goes to the transfer platform. This makes delays really frustrating. If you just barely miss the antioch train, its not just waiting 10 minutes for the next pittsburg baypoint train, but you eventually will have to wait for the antioch train that is coming 20 minutes later. This makes a long ride even more time consuming because money.

[@Thom-TRA]

I never realized the frequencies were different between the two

[@theprodigal72]

This reminds me of the Ottawa O-Train Trillium line, which uses Siemens Desiro Classics (now out of service), Coradia Lint 42s and Stadtler Flirt Trains and also feels very much like a European regional line transplanted in to a large, North American city.

[@jfungsf882]

Wonderful video I hope you enjoyed San Francisco because it's such a beautiful iconic city😊👍💯

[@BirbarianHomeGuard]

the eBART mode has the potential to be an east bay interurban network revival.

[@Thom-TRA]

I think expansion could prove very successful

[@william2william]

There are plans to extend eBART to Brentwood.

[@ck4426]

Thank you for all of your research and information about a very unique transit situation!!! Thank you for alllllll of the research and information you put into each and every video, for that matter. Awesome!!!!!!!

[@ScienceNotFaith]

I've lived in the SF Bay area since 1981 and never knew this. I take BART all the time (but never to Antioch). Good information and thanks for the video.

[@Thom-TRA]

You’re welcome! Try it out sometime!

[@PrimeTimeTravelers]

That is so interesting to have a transfer platform only alongside the highway. So interesting. Thank you for sharing this with us! Hope you have a great week and hope to hear from you on our train vlogs someday.

[@allenjones4168]

I think that elevated track makes the infrastructure look futuristic.

[@edwardmiessner6502]

2:31 "Change trains at transfer platform." The MBTA states it better without words. On its subway map it shows its Red Line Ashmont Branch separated from its Mattapan High Speed Red Line at Ashmont station as two separate but linked stations.

[@MilliBlom]

I think the problem is that for BART, that transfer station isn't at an actual station, so you can't show it as a full station on the line since some might try to use it to enter/exit the train.

[@dianethulin1700]

Thank you, I learned a lot so appreciation and respect. I pass this Bart platform on my way to boyfriend’s house and it always looks so isolated. Now I just may check it out! I’m a little sorry I didn’t know you were here! I live near Powell and Cable Car Turnaround and would have loved to show you around. Thank you for sharing your videos with us! 👍🙏

[@Thom-TRA]

I didn’t know, sorry!

[@trivedimalhar]

I live in Bay Area and didn't know about this! Thanks for making this video

[@jokerman545]

I take eBART everyday as part of my commute from Antioch to San Francisco. I would like to shed some light on gripes I have with the system. Firstly, transfers from BART to eBART are supposed to be timed, but they rarely are. I have been stranded on the exit-less transfer platform in the middle of a freeway for 30 minutes at a time in some instances. Secondly, bicycling and e-mobility are vastly underserved causing car doors to be blocked by bikes and e-scooters during peak hours.

[@rohantrainvlogs]

cool video, I went to San Francisco a few months ago and didn't even know these existed, now I kinda wish I rode one... something for next time

[@michaelb9629]

I’ve never heard of a train station with a transfer point only an no exit. That’s cool how you can get to two different types of BART trains in between. That’s something I want to do someday. It must’ve took me time to know that there’s a different kind of BART train other than the subway. I like how there’s two different kinds of those passenger trains of the same system.

[@Thom-TRA]

I remember when the trains were built so that’s how I remembered about it

[@michaelb9629]

@@Thom-TRA Oh cool. I haven’t really been looking into train systems that much that I don’t live by or plan to visit anytime soon, but I like giving myself the opportunity to hopefully be able find some time to travel to other destinations and check out new ones.

[@kjrehberg]

Secaucus Junction in New Jersey was originally intended to have no exits but they eventually capitulated and added an exit/entrance and a small parking lot off a NJ Turnpike exit.

[@michaelb9629]

@@kjrehberg I didn’t know that either. It must be good the way it is now.

[@AndreiTupolev]

There used to be a similar arrangement at Dovey Junction in Wales, for connecting between trains to/from Aberystwyth and trains to/from Pwllheli

[@Santiago-lb5md]

Also, eBART was meant as a bigger, more extensive network, but you know, money became an issue after the Antioch extension.

[@muzvid]

I live in the Bay Area and ride BART regularly, yet I had never heard about this! Then again, I've never gone further east than Concord.

[@Thom-TRA]

Check it out sometime!

[@alogan7951]

I have been on the airport Bart many times while traveling for my office. I was really impressed with the carpeted city trains! Great video 😊

[@anthonysnyder1152]

Carpeted trains were gross and removed over a decade ago I think

[@Thom-TRA]

DC had carpeted trains as recently as this summer

[@Kitty8791]

​@@anthonysnyder1152Yup almost a decade ago. BART began replacing carpeted floors in 2008 & finished in June 2015. www.bart.gov/news/articles/2015/news20150810-0 It's all moot now anyway, as the last Legacy train ran this past September 2023 & all trains in-service are "fleet of the future" now.

[@matteframe]

leave it to BART to call the one non-electrified train in the system 'e-BART'

[@ksoman953]

That was my first reaction, they look similar to the NJ Riverline. I should take a ride up one of these days to Antioch.

[@anthonyhunt701]

Loving your channel! Back from ancient video railfanning in the 1970s lol

[@Thom-TRA]

Glad you’re loving it!

[@brianhenderson9124]

I need to visit one of these days, and use that trip as an excuse to visit the Western Railway Museum.

[@keitainaba6115]

Wow Bart looks so much better than when I was using them (2018) Edit: just watched your other vid and saw why (lol) glad they changed them ( I didn't mind the running sound but the squealing brakes just was terrible)

[@michaelsmiley15]

It was the cheapest way to get the extension done Bart used money set aside for the Antioch extension on other projects so when it was time to build the east county line the border chose this diesel multi unit Nothing wrong with it but something that should have been done like 20 plus years ago

[@3henry214]

That is absolutely correct. While it was true that East Contra Costa County was not originally part of the BART district, they did join a lot earlier than the cities did along the BART extension corridor from Daly City to the SF Airport. East County residents, were paying BART taxes for well over 20 years without getting anything in return, with their money being diverted into the airport extension instead. After many delays, and promises by BART to complete the Antioch extension, BART was sued, and was required to start construction of the Antioch extension by a certain date, which I do not remember. The BART pulled a "fast one", and constructed a BART "park and ride" lot as a "place holder" at the location in Antioch where the BART terminus station was to have been built, technically satisfying their legal obligation to begin construction of the Antioch extension. That "park and ride" lot was a joke, and was hardly utilized. In the meantime, the plans to widen Hwy 4 proceeded, and BART found themselves "land locked" between that highway widening project. More lawsuits ensued with East County trying to get BART to make good on the extension that they had already been paying taxes on for decades, and E-BART was the solution developed to bridge the gap between that Antioch "Park & Ride" BART parking lot, and the BART Bay Point Station. The confined space that the HWY 4 expansion left BART with in the Highway median, would have required BART to construct the extension with elevated tracks and stations, so the cheaper solution of using standard gauge rolling stock that could fit into the center highway median was used. It was an "after thought" add on bandage, and that is why it ended p being so weird. There is a lot of sorted history and controversy behind the Antioch extension, and the "E" in E-BART indeed originally stood for extended - BART.

[@this_jedi_crafts6626]

So awesome - I haven't lived in SF for 30 years (but grew up there). Hoping you do coverage of the other public transit sources. I grew up in the Richmond district and I found it amazing that you could get from there to "downtown" on one bus. However (and unless it's changed) it's tough to simply get from the Richmond to the Sunset district (where I went to high school) unless you are in a car or riding a bike. The electric cars (that run from the Sunset, also back to downtown) were awesome as well! Thanks for covering BART. Despite having taken it when growing up (on random adventures - like to visit friends at UC Berkeley), I haven't taken it in many many years - brought back fun memories.

[@Thom-TRA]

Of course! I definitely did not make these videos in isolation

[@kr46428]

The fact that the `e` in eBART does not mean electric is just violating all sorts of norms 🙃I bet you'd be surprised if you bought an e-bike and it were diesel powered, eh? I am curious why they did the transfer at an isolated station instead of just extending the Pittsburgh/Bay Point station.

[@Thom-TRA]

It would reduce capacity at Bay Point

[@jacobbyers7914]

I remember seeing a video where someone was like: "I asked BART about why the transfer platform exists and they told me they couldn't find a reason" but I guess like Thom said it'd probably reduce capacity at Bay Point.

[@DellAnderson]

Exactly! eBART appears to be a deliberate feint to avoid bringing attention to the fact that the engines are of the CARB forbidden, diesel engine which is basically being regulated out of existence for trucks, buses, and other uses in California. Diesel is good for us, but not for you says the government.

[@DellAnderson]

@@stanislavkostarnov2157 Good points, however as you said, no excuse not to electrify - I wasn't comparing trucks with trains, I was comparing electric with diesel, and CARB has basically outlawed (or onerously regulated) ALL consumer diesel engines, including on caravans/RVs, for vehicles over 14,000 lbs, adding annual fees, inspections etc, which (last I checked) don't apply to Municiple vehicles like fire trucks. Just seems hypocritical and a tacit admission that diesel sometimes is the most practical solution even if it causes the end of the world as we know it. Your point about efficiency per passenger mile makes sense if the train is fully loaded, but rarely have I seen BART loaded near the end of the line. Haven't ridden the eBART but as a rule, number of passengers per car drops steadily and is lowest towards the end of the line, so if they were going to use diesel it would have made more sense closer to San Francisco and electrify the ends of the lines. Especially since they are closer to some regional wind farms. The good news is that at least in this case our government officials attempted some fiscal responsibility with our tax dollars and saved 50% vs electrifying.

[@DellAnderson]

@@stanislavkostarnov2157 Not sure what you are commenting on I never advocated taxing fire-trucks. I was just pointing out that California hypocritically exempted Fire-trucks and Garbage trucks from the engine replacement regulations that private trucks that carry our groceries are required to abide by. It is a tacit admission that it's not practical or cost effective to be a climate change idealist and that perhaps diesel is not going to cause the end of the world - else why would they allow Garbage & Fire Trucks to end the world climate wise? Rules for Thee but not for Me attitude has to go with politicians who think they are above the law. I would MUCH rather that the natural economies of efficient engines compete with the older ones fairly instead of selectively punishing productive or tax paying citizens.

[@gregorylparks7304]

Awesome Video!!😊

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks!

[@IamTheHolypumpkin]

They should’ve spend at least a little more money to install wider railroad ties with a third mounting point. So you can convert it to broad gauge without disrupting service for more than a couple of days. Move one running track to the new point and done. Only switches are more complicated but if you prepare it enough you could probably do all this in maybe a week.

[@dianethulin1700]

It wasn’t a little more money. It was double the money. Contra Costa County isn’t very wealthy

[@Yvonne-Bella]

Coming from someone who lives in Contra Costa County, there are at minimum 4 known cities out of 19 that are "rich": Oakley (debatable really), Brentwood, Walnut Creek, and San Ramon (that I can name off hand). 1 already has BART access. 2 have connected access through Tri Delta Transit. And the last wasn't even a proposal. Pretty much, only Pittsburg, Antioch, Oakley, and Brentwood were funding it at a time when people were barely just moving out to the area. And I want to be extra clear: San Ramon and Walnut Creek are the more "richer" cities, where as Oakley and Brentwood were more farmlands before becoming what they are today

[@dianethulin1700]

@@Yvonne-Bella Thank you for the information. I do think of Walnut Creek and San Ramon do have money. We visit my boyfriends parents in Brentwood and I always wonder about this particular station

[@michaelsullivan3581]

Thanks Thom! Great trip!

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks!

[@thyagarajannatarajan6234]

My man, road to 30k

[@brentsummers7377]

Nice! The transfer looks very smooth. As for the signage on the BART map I think it keeps it simple for visitors and tourists.

[@intrepidfox37]

My memory is fuzzy since I was so young but I think Metra used to have a transfer only platform on the Electric District at 67th St. I remember there being wooden platforms there and maybe it was used to get people from the main line to the South Chicago branch. I know in more recent years you’d have opportunities to transfer at 57th, 59th or even 63rd.

[@desertmodern7638]

Very interesting to learn more about eBART, although I still wish they'd been able to just extend the line using the nice broad-gauge electrified system.

[@Thom-TRA]

Yeah, but then I wouldn’t have been able to make this video lol

[@robh48]

Great Video , I live in Concord California and I have yet to ride the new EBART line

[@christophereadgbe2976]

Thanks for this! I've seen this different looking BART train for years and never understood it. By the way, we found ourselves on the last run of the last legacy train a few months after you made your trip to California. Looking around the old train as we rode, knew I wouldn't miss it, but all the people that thing must have carried. I'm sure that between my wife an I we were probably in that very car at least a few times before.

[@triaxe-mmb]

I think they should extend this out to Brentwood and the Delta...make these trains its own system that serves the region and connects to BART at the transfer station... would work well as a system enlargment for a relatively low density outer suburban/x-urba /quasi-rural regions of the Bay Area.

[@Thom-TRA]

They were talking about extending it to Brentwood at least

[@BongRipBing]

If you happen to be coming back to Antioch on the last BART train and it gets DELAYED, you end up at Pittsburg BART and have to figure it out. eBART dgaf if the train you're on gets delayed. Antioch paid taxes since I was a baby into BART for an extension and got eBART. Hopefully that autonomous system they're talking about putting in the EB accentuates eBART or it gets expanded into AMTRAK like some people have mentioned.

[@MrCrazycook8]

Bedankt voor het leuke filmpje. Erg informatief.

[@Thom-TRA]

Geen dank!

[@Tanknuggets217]

I live in the city and ride Bart daily. It is so weird seeing the city, station, and Bart through KZbin

[@RoLE777]

Yo your channel is oddly interesting and entertaining and youre a great narrator? Content creator

[@MiaCollinsNeighborhood]

Hi Thom! Thanks for covering this amazing transit line. It is something that would be hard to find anywhere in the world, and it’s been an honour to have you come to our city and experience it for yourself.

[@Thom-TRA]

My pleasure!

[@MiaCollinsNeighborhood]

@@Thom-TRA Well I just wanna say, this video is right on track!

[@Thom-TRA]

@@MiaCollinsNeighborhood good one!

[@kidfrombrooklyn66]

VERY INTERESTING - strange - but still VERY INTERESTING

[@PhilipTamayo]

GTWs are also used on Austin's Capital Metrorail and the A train for the Denton County Transit Authority

[@trainsofworld]

great video!! 👍

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks!

[@EpicThe112]

Speaking of the eBART DMU one can also see it inside Bremen Hbf 15 years ago for a Wunderline trip to Groningen via Oldenburg Leer(Ostf) for a 173km run. I wonder why NJ Transit didn’t get this version of the GTW yet it's 2018 crash standard compatible that way they can replace the older versions

[@gamereric2189]

I've always wondered what happens if you moss the last train of the night at Pittsburg Bay Point transfer... do you get stuck there all night? 😳

[@Thom-TRA]

That is a good question

[@seedubhuntx]

is this also used for the oakland airport line? i see a funky similar looking train overhead sometimes

[@Thom-TRA]

The Oakland airport line actually uses a cable to pull it!

[@SnickasBah]

I'm trying to get my head around why extending the line using existing electrified track gauge would have doubled the cost.

[@Thom-TRA]

Because it takes up more space and electrification used up twice the amount of infrastructure plus electrical work.

[@tonywalters7298]

Standard stuff is generally cheaper, especially since they can use off the shelf commuter trains, as opposed to designing for a proprietary gauge.

[@londonwhaley8690]

I enjoyed the video👍👍

[@fvhitman4hire]

Surprised California, especially that Bay Area, would allow clean burning Diesel trains ;)

[@IronHorsefan1869]

I'm really glad these European Built Trains are becoming more common, I especially love the Arrow in San Bernardino and Sprinter in San Diego County

[@Thom-TRA]

I love Arrow! It was one of my first popular videos

[@IronHorsefan1869]

@@Thom-TRA Arrow is epic for sure, I really hope more and more commuter trains in America start using this technology, I did a video on Arrow and also the SMART in the Sonoma Area

[@pat.russStudios]

Great video dude! I can't help but feel like they could have just extended the standard gage tracks a little bit further into the Pittsburg station, so the transfer happens there. Sure, it's still cross-platform, but at least then if something goes wrong you can walk out of the station or wait in a nicer transit hub.

[@Thom-TRA]

Yeah I don’t know why they set it up that way

[@a81517]

Looking at google maps, I realize that Bart service goes super far out, so now I want the red line to go to kankakee.

[@Thom-TRA]

It’s insane how far it goes

[@Geotpf]

​@@Thom-TRABART is kind of a combination of a Metro and a Regional or Commuter Rail system. Fairly unique; most systems are more clearly one or other.

[@pi.actual]

There might be more to the logic of this story because right next to the terminus at Antioch are a set of existing and currently unused standard gauge tracks that run through Oakley, Brentwood and Tracy. Perhaps they intend to use them for future extensions.

[@tylerkochman1007]

MBTA Ashmont Mattapan High Speed Line: “I’ve been doing the same thing for how long?”

[@Thom-TRA]

But at least in Ashmont you can go out into the world

[@tylerkochman1007]

@@Thom-TRA yeah. Also, while we don’t think of it like that, the CTA Yellow Line largely acts as a similar extension to the Red Line.

[@MattLashbrook]

I saw these GTW trains in Austin texas recently! Such a strange service in SF haha.

[@Thom-TRA]

I want to ride the Texan GTW trains someday!

[@melaniedrogr951]

I mean i would have electrified it so that you wouldn't need the extra infrastructure needed for diesel engines (which are far more maintenance intensive than electric ones), but it sounds a reasonable solution given that converting the railway gauge is quite expensive, same for trains who can change their gauge mid drive (yes those actually exist).

[@wjekat]

This setup reminds me an awful lot of Manhattan Transfer station (not the novel, not the band) in Harrison, NJ which operated from 1910 to 1937 when it was replaced by Newark Penn Station. Manhattan Transfer station also had no exit to the street. It existed to allow PRR trains headed into Manhattan to exchange steam locomotives with electric locomotives, to facilitate transfers between the Pennsylvania Railroad and the Hudson tubes into lower Manhattan and to ferry lines to New York City. A wonderful dedicated multi modal transfer point. So good John Dos Passos used it as the title of his marvelous novel and the equally marvelous vocal band stole its name from the station.

[@Thom-TRA]

Where was this in relation to the current Harrison station?

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

@@Thom-TRAGood question! The station was located in the eastern side of Harrison, about where the big PATH maintenance facility is today

[@SFbayArea94121]

You went to the HOOD of the Bay Area aside from Oakland. I am at the end of the Blue line in Dublin.

[@dexteralexander2437]

Extra points for explaining why E-Bart is standard gauge and diesel powered. Points deducted for no Lindsey cameo. 😎

[@Thom-TRA]

Next time!

[@dexteralexander2437]

👍

[@dancingwiththestars3778]

I vote to extend eBART from Antioch to Oakley, Brentwood,Lone Tree Way,Discovery Bay Stockton Amtrak Connection and Downtown Stockton

[@Thom-TRA]

There are some plans to maybe go to Tracy

[@dancingwiththestars3778]

Also I vote to extend the BART Blue Line Metro Subway from Dublin to Livermore with the median of I-580 and Valley Line from Dublin to Lathrop/Manteca is Phase 1 and Phase 2 of ValleyLink is Stockton

[@dancingwiththestars3778]

@@Thom-TRA BART Blue Line to Tracy and Modesto via I-580 & Altamont Pass BART Yellow Line East Bay Area to Stockton via Discovery Bay & Highway 4

[@Kitty8791]

​​@@dancingwiththestars3778CBS did a piece on this earlier in the month. "Livermore Mayor John Marchand hopes proposed commuter rail line can connect BART with San Joaquin Valley." Seems Mayor John Marchand has flipped from pro-BART to anti-extension & now pushing for Valley Link. He's gone NIMBY (á là folks in Marin).

[@eechauch5522]

While it certainly isn’t perfect, having a cross Plattform transfer is fine. There is a similar situation near me when traveling between Austria and Germany. The Austrian side is electrified while the German isn’t, so both trains terminate in Pfronten-Steinach to transfer. It’s unfortunate the BART gauge and narrow right of way remove the possibility of running eBART trains as some sort of express service in the future, but that’s more of a problem of the original BART then the extension. My main point of confusion is why they chose to do the interchange at a station with no exit. I’d guess the reason they didn’t do the transfer at the original terminal is probably due to space constraints, since BART seems to have some storage tracks there. But if they had to build a new station anyways, why not add an exit? The trains have to stop anyways and looking from satellite view there even seems to be an access tunnel, just not for public use. So, it currently has all disadvantages of a station without any benefit to the riders.

[@rikkichunn8856]

Congratulations, Thom! You found a line I had never heard of. I haven't been to the Bay Area in a few years--I guess it shows. My guess is that e-BART will be extended over coming years. It will be interesting to see where it gets extended to. Anyway, thanks for extending my exposure to new things in suburban rail.

[@Thom-TRA]

Wow, I consider this quite the achievement!

[@paulramon3353]

that freeway noise is hideous - obviously sound baffling was too expensive as well

[@Thom-TRA]

Allow me to introduce you to the red and blue lines in Chicago. They’re terrible. So loud.

[@daveinthewildOG]

Nice presentation as always! One question: how many trains do they run on the eBart section? This weird little stub is not huge, and doesn't have a bunch of stops. Do they just run one train back and forth, or is a pair that pass each other at some point?

[@Thom-TRA]

There’s more than one, because I got on a return train just 2 minutes after I got to Pittsburg Center. There are 8 GTWs in total. Hope this helps!

[@FrogeYT]

I was there very recently, transit is nice and I stayed in downtown right on the street where the cable cars run

[@stansse1880]

A short-sighted implementation consistent with BART planning in general. Any BART extension needs to eventually go on to the next city to the south, Brentwood, with a population of over 60,000 and still growing. But as with BART leading to Pittsburg, eBART extends along he middle of State Highway 4 which was widened to accommodate this during a recent extensive highway upgrade. However this accommodation ends just past the Antioch station, preventing any further "affordable" extension. They could have instead used an old WWII era railroad right-of-way just past the Pittsburg station to take an eBART track to the north of Highway 4 to meet the old Southern Pacific (now Union Pacific) Railroad trackway which basically runs parallel to Highway 4. This route's right-of-way is wide enough for a double track eBART arrangement. This old trackway hasn't been used in years, though when modified for eBART there is no reason it couldn't be designed to also handle any future Union Pacific freight trains. This route extends on to Brentwood (and beyond to Tracy and even Los Angeles eventually).

[@davidyegiazaryan3417]

That was the plan originally, but I think UP backed out last minute. Fortunately, Highway 4 was having construction done, and they were able to build tracks down the median.

[@TheNewGreenIsBlue]

Do they always try to time the transfers with BART to eBART? I don't supposed there's a need for increased frequency on a 2-station stub but if they ever extended it further I can see them maybe having use for more frequent trains than BART has.

[@brentsummers7377]

Much of the time you simply walk off one train, take 10 steps, and walk onto the other train. On one journey I had to wait at the transfer platform for about 5 minutes for the BART train to arrive from SF.

[@Foamerr-y8u]

Over here in Texas The Austin Metro rail And The Denton County Transit Authority or DCTA They also Operate Some Stadler GTWs As well!

[@HowardMessias-e8z]

Greater Anglia in the UK uses the similar FLIRT trains but some are dual mode, diesel/battery.

[@tonywalters7298]

Hopefully UP can be more reasonable and allow it to be extended along the existing tracks to Tracy

[@Thom-TRA]

That would be great

[@jimstraveladventures3961]

Little secret, in UP employee timetable most of the line to Tracy is out of service.

[@transitcaptain]

This should connect to the Amtrak line north of there and should be part of a new commuter network for the Bay Area. It should also go to Discovery Bay

[@sfjessevideo]

You didn't mention how incredibly loud the Pittsburg ebart station is. Why can't they enclose it or put up some sort of sound dampening? It really sucks to stand there at 6am in the middle of the freeway, listening to the freeway. I understand wanting to return the 10 car trains back to the core system (and a train transfer) but the stupid different gauge and diesel trains are a true shot in the foot for further expansion. The train could could go all the way to Brentwood or even Sacramento or Modesto.

[@Thom-TRA]

The standard gauge might actually help the case to extend it to Brentwood, since it can use existing infrastructure. That was one of the considerations during the planning phase. I agree about the sound dampening though. It's the same in Chicago.

[@hansoverbeeke5442]

Sure enough, tough here in europe a spanish train builder Talgo can make trains that can switch with differend gauge widts pretty clever❤😊

[@calleywang6203]

How well do the train operator and the automated annoucements explain the transfer process once you get to the station?

[@Thom-TRA]

The operator did a decent job iirc

[@brentsummers7377]

In practice it works very well. You either walk off one train and straight onto to the other, or walk off the eBART train & wait a few minutes for the train heading to SFO airport. There is no tagging on or off involved. The eBART trains are quiet and fast easily keeping up with the speed of the highway traffic.

[@ParsifalGodtree]

Caltrain recently electrified their fleet of trains. New trains have free WiFi and charging ports for each seat. Caltrain is a joint transit project running from San Francisco to San Jose along the inside edge of the Peninsula through what is commonly known as Silicon Valley. BART also extends southward into San Jose but on the other side of the Bay through what is commonly known as East Bay. Primary differences between Caltrain & BART is Caltrain is heavy, double-decker commuter rail whereas BART is light rail which zigs out to Daley City & Colma before zagging in to Milbrae & SFO-Airport

[@Thom-TRA]

I wonder if you might enjoy my Caltrain video…

[@ParsifalGodtree]

@@Thom-TRA I enjoy all of your videos

[@59jm24]

At it's inception in the late 50s, BART was intended to encircle the entire SF bay. However, several Counties for financial reasons, backed out of the deal. Too bad for the area.

[@baseballfan99]

The only similar example I can think of in the U.K. is the Merseyrail connection with Northern Trains at Ormskirk, Headbolt Lane and Ellesmere Port where you have to transfer from electric to diesel but they are shown as separate trains on the timetable rather than the example here. As you have no doubt seen the new trains have batteries aboard so they can go beyond the electric 3rd rail range thus increasing the Merseyrail network at a cheaper cost.