Doge 10 vs Willsenton R8 vs Cayin CS55A tube integrated amp. How do I decide which one is for me?

#hifi #audiophile #amplifier #stereo #Integrated #tubes
Matrix Mini-i Pro 3 DAC used in this sound demo
apos.audio/pro...
DOGE doge.audio/pro...
WILLSENTON R8 www.china-hifi...
CAYIN CS55A en.cayin.cn/pr...
Gear used for this video
Focal 1008 BE
Matrix Mini Pro 3
Transparent Super interconnects
DIY LITZ speaker cables
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Free Download / Stream: bit.ly/-first-l...
Music promoted by Audio Library • First Light - Atch (No...
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Music provided by Audio Library Plus
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[@ThomasAndStereo]

I will be gone temporarily for 3 to 5 months around Feb 2021 as I will be busy with a big project at work. I might still post some discussion videos but not review videos. Matrix Mini-i Pro 3 DAC used in this sound demo apos.audio/products/matrix-mini-i-pro3-mini-i-3-wireless-bluetooth-dac-amp?_pos=3&_sid=d24825296&_ss=r DOGE doge.audio/product/doge-10-padc/ WILLSENTON R8 www.china-hifi-audio.com/en/willsenton-tube-amplifier-c-77 CAYIN CS55A en.cayin.cn/products_info?itemid=84

[@vpreef]

What track was used?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

@@vpreef It is in the description.

[@SuperMcgenius]

Good luck with your project, so back next November I hope.

[@annenominous7220]

thanks for your entertaining videos, good luck at work!

[@cybergod77]

Hi Thomas, pls review the Matrix Mini-i Pro 3 DAC, thks

[@philippest-hilaire4059]

Thomas is truly the best reviewer. he takes the time to redo a video to put the 3 amps into perspective and describe them as best he can so that no one faces a bad purchase. That my friend is taking care of subscribers

[@mokyingleung]

I never thought that watching someone talking about HIFI stuff is so entertaining. Well done Thomas 👍

[@earlismarks7108]

Thomas, you having way too much fun, enough already! 😆😃😂

[@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120]

Thank you Thomas !

[@robk5745]

Please don’t shut down you’re literally the best audio reviewer!

[@dmnrbnsk]

I have no experience with the Cayin or the Doge but I bought the R8 last April and I am still absolutely smitten with it. Using it to drive a pair of Focal Chorus 807V stand mounts. It's an amazing combination. I've currently got Tung Sol EL34b power tube Tung Sol 6SN7 and northern electric 6SL7. Those Northern electrics made an enormous difference in just about every aspect. Thanks for the great review.

[@tbear2327]

Best tube amp. In my opinion, of course. The Willsention R8! Why, I hear you ask? Well, of the three tube amps, the R8, apart from getting a different sound by simply listening in Triode or Ultralinear mode, it's also a tube rolling paradise. Try Sophia Electric tubes and you'll be in seventh heaven - their KT88 or EL34 blue glass cokebottle tubes depending on what flavour you want give a fabulous result. Don't ignore the preamp either. Sophia Electric, Shuguang and Psvane for the preamp section. My current favourite configuration: 4 x Sophia Electric KT88-ST blue glass. 2 x Sophia Electric 6SN7 blue glass. 2 x Shuguang 6SL7-T blue glass. 1 x Psvane 6SN7 T series MkII for voltage filtering. BTW, all the above tubes are cokebottle tubes.

[@frankfleischman4003]

Great recap of the R8 Rachael. I just received my R8 hasn’t set it up yet. Is there a way you position the 5 - 6SN7 tubes? Any other set up tips? What are you using for an input? And what speakers? Thank you

[@tbear2327]

@@frankfleischman4003 - I've since found an even better combination of tubes which raise the sound level of the R8 to an entirely new level. The amp does not have 5 6SN7's. It has 3 x 6SN7 and 2 6SL7. Anyway, the sound of this combination as above is really good but the combination below is magnificent: 2 x NOS MELZ 6SL7 mil spec metal base - circa 1950's 3 x NOS Sylvania 6SN7GTA T-plate - circa early 1960's 4 x NOS Mullard EL34 xf2 series - circa 1960's NOS mean New Old Stock. This is the combination that I have finally settled on as it gives the best of everything. In fact, the midrange is to die for. Good bass (not bloated, just the right amount) and a sweet, extended top end. You can purchase the tubes from valvesnmore.com. I have no affiliation with them, but Jim, the owner, has been of so much help to me, plus his after sales service is second to none. Whatever you do, do not buy the tubes off eBay! Input: Naim ND5 NX 2 streaming DAC - nice neutral sound with no real sound of its own. Rega P6 turntable, Nagaoka MP500 cartridge, Schiit Mani pre-preamp, although I need to upgrade the Schiit. Output: Q Acoustics Concept 500 - extremely nice speaker.

[@frankfleischman7285]

@@tbear2327 that’s great info thank you. I’ll reach out to that shop and get some tubes can’t wait. Your setup sounds amazing. Enjoy and thank you again.

[@tbear2327]

@@frankfleischman7285 - Honestly, even though I thought the R8 sounded really good with the stock tubes, I've compare it with the NOS tubes and it's like a completely new amp. Yes, the tubes make that much difference. In other words, it's not a subtle difference - it's a huge difference. I also own the Willsenton R800i (805 version) amp, also with custom tubes - tubes alone cost double the cost of the amp, and for me the R800i is my endgame amp. The R8, on the other hand, which I still listen to because it's in another listening room, is probably a 9 out of 10 when compared to my 10 out 10 R800i. In other words, I don't feel that I'm missing anything. Yes, it's a slightly different sound, but the R8 still sounds amazing. Btw, the Mullard EL34 xf2 tubes are not cheap, but they are worth every cent. In fact many have stated that the Mullards are the best sounding EL34's ever made, and after going through many KT88 and EL34 tubes I totally agree! Happy listening...

[@frankfleischman7285]

@@tbear2327 I just sent a message to valvesnmore to discuss which tubes ans set Up along w the tube lifters. I’m glad you’re happy w your R8 mine has been in the box for a week and haven’t even thought about setting up until I get tubes figured out. I saw EL34 MULLARD tubes xf2 on Amazon see below. What would these be like? I want really good reliable tubes and trust what valvesnmore is doing. Probably answered my Own question Thank you again Premium high-voltage power pentode. An extremely faithful reissue of the XF2 Mullard EL34 from the 1960’s. Features & details Faithful reissue of the XF2 Mullard EL34 from the 1960’s. Special grid windings which give it a unique sound for both guitar and HiFi Perfect power tube for Dynaco ST-70 or vintage Marshalls, Hiwatt or other British Amps Platinum quad (4 tubes), computer-matched by manufacturer on proprietary equipment 6CA7 equivalent

[@shingnosis]

I know this is through youtube and my speakers and what not so as always a BIG grain of salt to this.. but when listening in comparison the Cayin sounds almost too boring and glossed over to be high-end. Good sound to live with for long listening maybe but a bit boring. The Doge 10 is the one I think sounds the most high-end, very precise and tight and fast. Possibly a slightly elevated upper mid-range like you said but it's not a bad sound and I don't think it's bass lean at all. The R8 would come somewhere in between, not quite as high-end sounding as the Doge but more so than the Cayin. I agree completely about your comment about high-end sound and recording quality, when you get it right it's wonderful but there's a trade-off in terms of how versatile the system is and what music you can listen to. Of course this is through youtube and different source and speaker matching can change things completely. I can't judge these amps through youtube but I can better understand the differences you speak of, and it's actually surprising how big a difference there is between these three in sound.

[@trekjudas]

HOLY COW!! He made an entire video for me!!

[@fishingbear69]

Just to show you,, that you never know.,,by the way I'm curious have you made up your mind ,which one to get ,, plus just keep in mind the cayin with the 6550 tubes coke bottles..!!! And even then there's a few different options and brands and pricing ,of those tubes..im thinking it must sound like 7up..perfection. 🤔

[@imagesbyjonevan3890]

i thought it was for me

[@trekjudas]

@@imagesbyjonevan3890 Nope. ME!

[@trekjudas]

@@fishingbear69 I already have the Willsenton so it would be crazy for me to buy another amp. Even. though its really affordable and awesome and beautiful and sexy and alluring and crazy enticing.

[@imagesbyjonevan3890]

@@trekjudas i was going to pull trigger on R8 until he mentioned to Doge 10,,now this video gives more clarity and wont have buyers remorse. Do you listen to vinyl? I just started and learning about TT and cartridges

[@SparksFun]

Got to thank Thomas for a great comparison. I did find a sound difference in my R8 between KT88's and EL34's but the earlier stage tubes with tube rolling really do change the emphasis of the 'sound'. I love my R8 but you need at least 100 hours burn-in on NOS tubes before it gets to its 'best' sound. (I never gave much thought to burn in but it does make a discernible difference with tubes.) I'd also say it's fun (I listen to a wide range of genres) and its always enjoyable in long sessions. And with heavier rock I love I can hear and feel the bass drum vs bass guitar distinctly and that the bass has real physical presence. In fact the bass gets so strong I think you need speakers that can handle such a physical sound. Are their 'better' tube amps, undoubtedly yes, but its a fine allrounder for listening to all types of music. Like Thomas I have friends with high end systems and while its great to hear Christine McVie's breathing on Warm Ways coming out of a CD that level of detail can also be distracting! Peeling back the layers is fine but when they were mixed in the studio that wasn't the intent! Anyway, no buyers remorse here on getting an R8, but I'd like to hear the Cayin on my setup - that's the problem with being keen on HiFi you always want to hear systems, so I hope the Rocky Mountain Audiofest happens in 2021, I really missed it this year.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Nice, glad you are enjoying your R8. Yeah, I miss audioshows!

[@rotaks1]

Wait what???? Please don’t shut the channel down!!🙏

[@warfam_clan6933]

Of the 3 amps and sound clips played, the Doge 10 is the clear winner. The sound stage superiority is evident even through my crappy TV speakers. With good headphones, it becomes even more apparent. Saying that however, it would be the Willsenton R8 that I would purchase due to the upgrade possibilities through tube rolling, KT88/EL34 switching and UL/TR switching. The amp is crazy value for money and should be on anyone's wish list for amps at around £1000.

[@spencexxx]

I HAVE high end Headphones, and the C sounded much more spacious than the others. (the clicks at the start of the track are not on the recording I guess().... the singer sounded like she was in a room. Doge made it a wall of sound.

[@Staybrown11]

Above and beyond what we ever expected from a KZbin hi-fi reviewer! Thank you Thomas and Friends

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@bkatbamna]

I can tell by your detailed analysis of all three and the honesty that you bring to your reviews that you're not shilling any particular product. I don't always agree with you but I respect you.

[@TombstoneTube]

Refreshing to watch a hi-end reviewer with such consideration for his followers. It's a contrast with a very popular channel where comments were disable and constant sense of negativity a sarcasm is directed towards its followers.

[@mr.george7687]

Well done Thomas! This is exactly the kind of videos viewers want to see.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@gnpd07]

Thomas, I actually bought the R8 because of your videos. I'm very happy with the amp. For those of you thinking of buying it, I would recommend completely. I have heard some reviewers say it is bumped up in the mid-bass region. It can get thick in the lower end, based on the recording, and the speaker pairing. If you are getting to much bass, try the triode mode, not linear enough, just switch to EL34s. Willsenton R8 is really 4 amps in one. KT88, EL43, ultra liner, triode modes. I really like the R8s more thick and full mid-bass and midrange region. If you listen to alot of 1960s recordings i.e. blues and jazz, the bump really fills out thin sources. Midrange is smooth and the top end can be liquid with the right speakers. Let the stock tubes burn in for 100 hours before upgrading. It sounds very good. Upgrade the preamp tubes and gain clarity and separation. For the money it is an incredible amp. 25 watts outputs a lot of power. On my kef speakers, I do not use 35-40% of the volume to hit 100 db. If it helps future buyers, I will say that I don't like analytical, extremely linear systems. I tend to like warm and full, over 'Hi-Fi' presentation. A flat response with weaker bottom end is not my thing. Also, the soundstage on the R8 is holographic and deep with a tube change and the right speakers.

[@trose_49]

Thomas. Wanted to thank you for your review of the Willsenton R8. I finally made the plunge and it arrived yesterday! 😀. My system consisted of an Orbit special turntable (initially with Red Ortofon cart running thru a Schiit Loki and then into a Yamaha receiver VX730 and out to a pair of JBL 530 monitors. My Yamaha receiver although rated plenty of watts simply could not drive the JBL’s very well. It required me to play the music louder then I can due to apartment living. If you don’t drive the JBLs which are 86db sensitivity and 6ohms a little hard they just don’t shine the way they are capable of. So before my R8 arrived I switched the RED Ortofon to the Blue on my Orbit and all I can say is YES is makes a dramatic difference even with the Yamaha receiver I found the instruments to have much more separation, the bass was much more articulate and I would describe the overall characteristics for the cart as staccato. Quick and nimble and much more definition. Fast Forward to the arrival of the R8!! First of all my communication with chinahifiaudio and Mr Lee was very good considering the language barrier and how busy I am sure that he is. My R8 arrived in only 2 days to the east coast once it was back in stock (7 days). So 9 business days total from order to delivery. Quite acceptable! It was packaged extremely well. The R8 was double boxed and could not have been packed any better for the long trip from China. Everything arrived without a scratch! Onto the sound....swapping out the Yamaha for the R8 immediately woke my JBL 530’s from the dead. Now able to listen at lower volumes the speakers have quite a bit of punch to them and combined with the Blue Ortofon it is far more spacious in soundstage. I much prefer the more lively ultra linear mode because the speakers simply require the power. I have them connected to the 4ohm output of the amp and at 8:00 on the dial there is plenty of punch. 9:00 exceeds 89db so I think the amp is underrated at only 45w a channel?? 🤔 Do not be concerned with the bias process it literally took 3 mins tops to set it correctly using the meter in the front of the amp. I would make sure the switch on the back is set to the type of power tubes that you choose. I went with the KT88 for little more grunt and my amp came set at EL34. So make sure to check that! I’m still learning it’s capabilities but over all I am very pleased. Sounded great out of the box with the LOKI turned off. I did find with certain LP’s that I could turn it on and do minor tweaks based on the recording so as most purists would say to avoid the extra component I personally like having the “glorified bass/treble” controls the Loki offers. They are very subtle and you can really dial in the sound of the R8 based on the recording. I would highly recommend the R8 and am very happy I made this purchase. As budget was a concern overall I believe this is a lot of bang for the buck. I will Followup with a more detailed review once the tubes have some time in them and I can do some Critical listening.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience. Really appreciate it.

[@samlee2562]

My endgame is looking like the R8 with Double Impacts

[@WarinPartita6]

Your​ comments​ are​ so​ insightful, Thomas, especially​ telling​ us​ to​ give​ full​ Specification​s​ of​ the​ music​ system​ when​ we​ praise or​ criticize an​ amp​ (or​ a​ pair of​ speak​ers, etc.). BIG​ THANKS, man.​ PS​: Please​ stay​ with​ us.​ Don't​ leave​ us​ just​ yet.​

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks, I will be gone temporarily for 3 to 5 months as I will be busy with a big project at work. I might still post some discussion videos but not review videos.

[@lawchoongseng789]

Yes. Hifi is all about system, components pairing n matching to each person taste. Cables, powercord, interconnects, speaker cables. Footers. And where you shift the footers under your equipment does affect the overall sound. Having clean power supply improves sound. Great video Thomas. Always enjoy watching your videos. Cheers.

[@robertdmci]

I like all 3 amps, the vocal, the bass, and the elevated sond stage. If I can only pick one Cayin>Doge>Willsenton, thank you Thomas!

[@tbear2327]

Try the R8 with Tung-Sol tubes front and back. 3 x 6SN7GTB, 2 x 6SL7GT Gold, 4 x EL34B. I also bought their 6550 (KT88 equivalent). Sound = MAGIC. Using either the EL34B tubes or the 6550 tubes, bass is beautifully extended and clear (zero muddiness which is what Thomas reported using stock front tubes) with plenty of texture and tone. Midrange is where the real magic is though, although the top end is very well extended with plenty of air. Real holographic presentation. Speakers used - Q Acoustic Concept 500.

[@tbear2327]

Further to the Tung-Sol tubes, I've more recently tried the following: 4 x Sophia Electric KT88-ST blue glass cokebottle tubes. 2 x Sophia Electric 6SN7 blue glass tubes. 2 x Shuguang 6SL7-T blue glass tubes. 1 x Psvane 6SN7 T series MkII tube for power supply filtering, i.e., the centre front tube. While I'll admit that the Tung-Sol was fabulous, the above combination is even better. Next, I'm going to try the EL34-ST blue glass tube, also from Sophia Electric, so watch this space. Yes, this combination is expensive, but for me, the Sophia Electric combination is so worth it. Still, if money is tight, the Tung-Sol is still a great option over the standard tubes.

[@ronaldmcdonald2456]

Another winner my friend. I'll never buy any of these, BUT, there's always an education to be had in your presentations. And yes, I play with speaker wire and consider it as sort of a tone control. It can turn out very good, or very bad.

[@nc3419]

Of all the reviewers, a few of which are just as useful to me as your reviews, is how you review. I call this reviewer poetry.

[@greggawhite]

LOVE the Doge 10 in this comparison! Sound is so BIG and Solid....the best overall for my ears. The Cayin sounded sweeter; a little leaner on the bottom and open on the top end. Willsenton sounded more congested with less soundstage clarity and instrument separation. All great! Pick your flavor!

[@trehansid]

Absolutely right, if anyone can buy Cayin / doge then they are best among. Can totally avoid the willsenton

[@stevenhifi2188]

Willsenton r8 is the best dependent on your speakers. All great

[@jamesdwright]

Whit! You're shutting down?! Nooooo! You are my go to man for hifi advice on the Net Thomas. Life just won't be the same without your smiling face introducing me to the latest hifi bargain.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Will be for a few months, I might post discussion videos but just no review videos. 80% chance for now.

[@ja8020]

R8 in the house with the Unifi and vinyl spinning. Magic punchy bass and all the other things Thomas mentioned. 6 week wait was sooooo worth it. 😊

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Congrats!

[@apolloguitars]

Doge 10 sounds perfect for me. Gonna give i a shot! Thanks, Thomas!

[@jakemurphy9536]

Thank you Thomas. This is just the type of video potential purchasers need to help decide which item to go for.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad it was helpful!

[@kaifa76]

the punching metaphor was spot on

[@kjbiz]

Thank you again Thomas. I have an Audiolab 8300A Amp and my next stage of my journey might be heading into the tube area with one of these. Hope to see you around again

[@bmg102]

Thanks for another great review that answers questions I'm sure a lot of people were wondering. I was in the market for a used tube integrated amp when your Cayin CS-55A review came out in September. Cayin was not a brand on my radar, but based on your review I decided to try this brand and found a used Cayin A-50T. I can say the A-50T has the qualities you described so well when talking about the CS-55A and I have enjoyed it quite a bit.

[@srunnion1]

Yes, I agree, “it is for me”. Please send as soon as you can so I can start listening!!

[@axelsblues]

One thing to be taken into account is (potential) longevity. The R8 is simple, mostly point to point wired, and can still be fixed in 50 years (maybe except the remote circuit, but the rest will work). The more complex amps... Not so sure.

[@cheeyeefong8442]

i also wondered if if it easy to fix or replace the electronics that governs auto-biasing in the Doge 10, should something goes wrong with that part of the circuitry.

[@billbones1000]

Beautiful video Thomas! I love the fact that you are showcasing 3 tube amps! I'm a tube guy and this really makes me happy!!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad to hear it!

[@Asgutenasen]

Thanks Thomas. Perhaps the most eloquent and “real life” high-end audio reviewer I’ve watched. Very relatable and fun to listen to! 🙌🏼

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@rvaillant]

If people will just insert a good digital e.q. in their system they will save a boat load of money from flipping gear to system match. The Doge frequency bump could be fixed in 5 minutes, or much less, with an e.q.. Plus, you can make it sound like you want. More bass punch, e.q., mellower mids e.q., more life on cymbals e.q.. You can thank me later. Cheers.

[@michaelboland7987]

It's funny how EQ's were the be all end all when I was growing up in the 80s and are now totally frowned upon as if they never even existed. It's crazy to me to think that every recording engineer gets it absolutely right every single time as we all know this is not the case.

[@SuperMcgenius]

Hi Thomas, to hear that you are shutting down your channel saddens me, are you going silent or are you going to start something different? I have very much enjoyed the reviews, your kindness and balance of opinions. Regards, Andrew in Montreal

[@HD-su9sq]

Thomas, Thank you for this video - it has made the choice a lot clearer. I always look forward to your heartfelt reviews, and hope you continue. Regardless, best wishes for whatever you do next year!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad it was helpful!

[@fabien7079]

You are a very nice man Thomas, you went the extras mile for some audiophiles for comparing the 3 tube amps... Way back before internet we used to go to the dealers to get their support for matching sound systems, we still can go if we have one close by...

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I appreciate that!

[@sean_heisler]

Really great video, Thomas. It’s obvious your concern and willingness to help people and that’s appreciated. This video helps bring clarity, thanks. By the way it was ironic that as I’m watching this I got an email from Doge right toward the end of the video and the email is promoting Jay’s 2020 DAC award to the Doge 7 DAC. Ha ha.

[@augustonorona9717]

Hi there Thomas, Just want to emphasize how much I enjoy the audiophile information, equipment, speakers...etc....including Chinese made tube amps...& due to your review, I had bought the Willsenton R8 4 months ago & just love the Punchy, in your face, forward sounding BASS! I truly love the R8, I get smiles everytime i listen to audiophile streams on line...wow...I'm in heaven despite being a budget stereo tube amp. NOW, you mentioned also, that REPLACING THE FRONT TUBES will make a greater difference! I believe that statement, coz I emailed Jim from Tube Lab...he also strongly trashing the stock tubes of the R8, but if I'm happy with the Bass PUNCH etc., then replacing the front tubes will be like day & night. AMEN. What would you suggest I replace them with? I'd be waiting for your recommendation & needless to say I do trust your reviews....should I buy from China Hifi? Or the Tube Lab which sell the front tube upgrade for about $700. thank You. Love your channel. I'm a newbie wth Tube amps & it rekindled my love for music...thanks to you You Tube reviewers.🤪

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks. I think $700 for the front tubes is a bit too much for what you get. 3 6SN7 and 2 6Sl7 I think right? If you upgrade the 6SN7, you gain 10% in clarity. If you upgrade the 6SL7, you gain 10% in clarity, but if you upgrade both, you only gain 13% in clarity instead of the 20% one would expect. So I would say just upgrade either one of the other. You can get NOS for pretty reasonable price these days but be careful what you wish for, too much clarity might make the amp sound too bright.

[@augustonorona9717]

@@ThomasAndStereo Hello thomas, just getting back to you regarding my request for my R8 amp, i finally received the 6sl7's preamp power tube, I bought the Sylvania 6Ls7 NOS & just like yu had cautioned, be careful what you ask for! I believe, after installing the 6ls7's NOS's tubes 3 days ago, one thing is evident...for my ears & listening preference, I found the NOS tubes to be too warm & bright & I realized that I was already well pleased with the stock Willsenton Stock preamp 6ls7's the way they came since i love punchy base, good soundstage, but not tooooo much clarity. I'm not sure if the stock tubes were just burnt in so they had a smooother sound & more bass than the freshly installed Sylvania NOS 6ls7's?! Just like yo always emphasize, "best sound quality always depends on a individual's taste! you are so soooooo Right as always. I'll leave the NOS 6sl7's on for awhile longer, hoping the extreme clarity, lack of bass definition & punch would smoothen out. then again, just like you have said, once you start tube rolling, be prepared to empty your wallet!!! LOL. But, i've got the bug now & at least i still have the stock 6sl7s thaty came with the amp.; but will save up on the Gold Lion KT88's. Again, love your channel & vlogs. THANK YOU.

[@MrWkendwarrior]

Thomas, this is by far...your best video to date...! Reason why is u touch on a multitude of topics all INTERTWINED, INTERDEPENDANT on each other regarding integrated tube amps, that NEEDED to be discussed ...not only comparing these tube amps, but educating first time tube amp buyers, audiophiles and everyone in between: You nailed discussion topics on: bloated bass vs fun bass, tube amps geared toward specific genres of music, playing music loud vs subtle sound, the controversial topic of fine tuning sound w cable swapping, simple electronic swap out parts that can change sound, sound fatigue, pairing speakers, tube rolling to fine tune sound or improve sound over stock tubes, value...not just in cost, but quality of tubes, DAC, phono stage built in vs adding those components, speaker db efficiency, there is no best anything....it is what YOU like for sound...in your music...short vs long listening periods, etc.... You level set everyone’s tube amp expectations, .....been using a Yaqin MC100-B for years...it is an a voltage enigma ....with Chinese mfg line using different voltage than USA...since I had an available Variac, I can find the sweet spot in voltage somewhere above 94 volts and dial in the sound I like, rolling tubes, swapping cables: power and interconnects....everything u describe about integrated tube amps I have lived thru, experimented with....Sir this video was excellent...well thought out, insightful presentation. Thank u!

[@ericschwartzberg5083]

Thank you for the triple evaluation and you are right everything matters , matching speakers,interconnects, Speaker cable and of course money!!. This is the quest for any serious audio file to find Your ultimate system

[@ThomasAndStereo]

You bet

[@locmanw1583]

I ordered the Cayin cs-55a!😆

[@locmanw1583]

BTW why are you shutting down your videos?

[@christopherkent6512]

As always Mr Thomas, a superb and informative review. You do us all proud. Hope you hat to enjoy your large project but really look forward to your return!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks!

[@chriscooper9402]

Thanks ,for the great reviews Thomas! I recently purchased A pair of Triangle Trio. They are fantastic! And this review cemented by amp purchase. R8 it is!

[@stevenhifi2188]

R8 absolutely Amazing 💯

[@damianzaninovich4900]

The Doge looks much more impressive. The design and manufacturing is on another level. Very 21st century not retro. 20th century.

[@deangale4496]

Great review man your a true thinker examine nearly all scenarios.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I appreciate that!

[@caroleuktv]

Thank you Thomas, I bought a Cayin tube amp after your presentation, Not just on your review though I took your advice and looked at other amps and speaker combinations gain as you recommended, and I have to say you were spot on for me. Love you commentary you are so easy to listen too so please... If you are going to stop for a while..... Don't make it too long, we will miss you .

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thank you, glad you are enjoying the Cayin.

[@ibassnote]

Excellent. Communicative. Balanced. Real.

[@earlismarks7108]

All the best Thomas...For sure you truly have been a blessing.

[@doronor6552]

My personal experience: In the long run, neutrality wins, in my mind. You can get infatuated with an exaggerated sound but when you live long enough with an amp, neutral and relaxed sound (calm assertive if you will) which doesn’t call attention to itself, wins. From that stand point, the budget aspect may be analyzed differently - if an amp doesn’t get fatiguing, is it not a better bet, budget wise, even if it is more expensive, given you will not feel the urge to upgrade it down the road?

[@humanitech]

Thanks Thomas for the great overview on all these great tube amps..it will help many of us (that are getting interested in tube amps) to understand the attributes and different sonic flavours...much appreciated.

[@vittoriomartinidonati]

Great review, please expand regarding front tubes for the R8 and let us have your suggestions. Also if it helps keeping the channel open, I would like very much to keep watching your videos.

[@vittoriomartinidonati]

Hello Thomas I am still interested to hear about the front tubes for the R8, when you have a chance, thanks

[@wisetank135]

@@vittoriomartinidonati to share my exp, I just upgraded to shuguang UK version tubes, only $120 for 3, it still changed the sound stage a LOT.

[@vittoriomartinidonati]

@@wisetank135 thanks very much, please advise exact model tubes and where to get them. Also any other suggestions regarding power tubes and speaker pairing would be great, if you can send me you tel number at [e-mail] , I would gladly call you to have a quick chat

[@nachocucalon8769]

@@wisetank135 Could you share the exact reference of the tubes? I am also interested.

[@nachocucalon8769]

@@wisetank135 Could you share the references of the tubes? I also own a R8. Thanks in advance!!

[@davidnewboult6887]

I would have to listen to more material to decide between R8 and Doge, possibly the Doge would be my winner, the one I wouldn't go for is the Cayin Thanks again Thomas another great video

[@rehanamutlagh9473]

Love willsenton R8 amazing sound

[@petethegreekre]

What a great review, I'm new to high end stuff and now I'm stuck here...

[@Sam-ne9ns]

The best amp is "double" Canor Audio AI 1.20 connected via male to female. Also, I love your channel so much, do not stop. Instead, do quick Q&A on the go!

[@wim1983]

Is the best yes...until you check the price aha!!!

[@amcastre]

Thank you! this one solved all of my concerns. You rock, man!

[@dave7mm083]

I figured that for my taste the Cayin (EL34) and Trios were the way to go. Very satisfied. Thanks for the reviews.

[@imagesbyjonevan3890]

i have not finished this, but it explains alot to me..THANKS MAN!

[@EsotericArctos]

One of the joys of Tube Amps is that looseness and warmth and slightly less controlled sound, compensated by the richness in harmonics and the beautiful mids. I find it interesting that you say rolling the tubes on the R8 does little. This conflicts with pretty well every other review that is on KZbin, which all have significant changes in sound when the tubes are rolled, especially in Ultra Linear mode

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Everything is relative. I have gone thru 60+ amps, I own a company that sells tube amps (Galion) so I am basing it on my experience. First of all, looseness and warmth, nah, some modern tube amps sound like solidstate. Some tube amps react significantly to tube rolling, like 30% change in sound, while others will react 5% change in sound. I can tell you, change the 12AX7 on the Galion Ts120, it will not do much. Sure, you will hear some changes if you listen very very carefully.Change the 12Ax7 in the upcoming Galion tube amp, a world of difference, you can pass double blind test. So when I say the R8 does not do much, it is relative to all the other 60+ amps I have tried. Sure you will hear a difference, but for me, it is whatever, have fun passing a double blind test. Everything is relative to one's experience.kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6vYg4hshdOihpYsi=C_bXJV-0OE_NtA2t

[@benoitdugas745]

Hi Thomas this has to be one of your best video great info thank you.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I do find people tend to enjoy comparison videos.

[@eduardoquirino8131]

There are always the right stereo components for everyone, depending on budget, type of listening room, what type of music do you enjoy, etc. There are so many good brands out there to deliver the sound you will enjoy whether it is from CDs. Vinyl records (LPs), even from receivers (FM) etc. Best go to a large showroom and ask the manager or salesperson for advise and what type of budget you have.You need to match carefully your player with your amplifier and definitely listen to as many speakers, and then choose which ones, You can get a wonderful system for US$1,000. and if you have a lot of money, there are many wonderful exotic high end brands that,again, you need to listen to. You should always be the judge.

[@daveshear]

Very Good Video Thomas! I thoroughly enjoyed the comparison!

[@Jps3bs]

Great clarifying review. 👍 Love your channel Thomas. Gonna miss you when you put less reviews out but priorities come first. I wish you could review two integrated amplifiers that also have built in streaming capabilities that sell for about the same price around $3000 in the U.S. The PS Audio Stellar Stratta vs the Arcam SA30 would be a great comparison especially since I am seriously considering buying one or the other 🤣 Always enjoy every one of your videos.

[@R1947M]

If I agree with your evaluation of the R8 bass needing to be a bit more "tight & precise" what tubes would you roll ?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Oh I have to test it again to know. So long ago for me. 0

[@gnpd07]

@Rudolph Macejak: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nqWVp5mLrL1ofKc

[@saedamad]

Thank you Thomas.... I will trust only my ear and happy with my set up.

[@brycejeannotte7699]

Thank you for doing this video Thomas. It presents these amps very well and asks the big question, what do you want? I am not sure I know that 100%. Also, you say every time it all depends on the other components in your system. I have a set of B&W DM640i speakers, 91 dB spl (2.83V 1m) and 46Hz - 20kHz ± 2dB. I wonder how these would pair with the Willsenton R8 or the Doge 10. I would really appreciate hearing from anyone that has similar speakers.

[@pnojazz]

You’ve got to enhance the R8 with great tubes. I use Svetlana Winged C’s. They’re an impossible tube to find now, but I found them. I’m using Psvane CV181’s as well, 3 of them, with Tung Sol 6SL7 tubes. It’s a very different amp without the stock tubes. You’ve got to roll tubes to get the best from the amp, imho.

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

Valid in THIS combination ........DOGE without any hesitation......

[@SimanSlivar]

Really the R8 is a damned good value, IMHO for the majority of people the R8 is the choice. Its more or less what I would call the "reference" tube amp.

[@augustonorona9717]

HELLO again Thomas, thank you for your immediate response! Being a newbie in tube amps, & contacting you for your MUCH VALUED RECOMMENDATION, this will be my first shot at TUBE ROLLING. What brand would you recommend, I just want more clarity & separation on the highs & mid end, I'm learning to experiment with the push-pull aspect, Triode vs. Ultra linear mode of listening & there are specific music for each mode I'm finding out & it added to my hi-fi knowledge (lack of)...China Hi-fi has a $295 +- front tube upgrades...can't remember what brand they are but being that I am already satisfied with the stock chinese Willsenton tubes, I'm sure more will be revealed! My speakers are the Klipsch RP-8000F & for the price & sound reproduction, I'm totally blown by the combination of the R8 & the Klipsch's. I also bought the crossover upgrade kit from GR Research which I have yet to complete...but just wanting to appreciate the stuff you & your buddies have long been enjoying!! MORE POWER TO YOU. Again, any tube source i should buy from, without the exorbitant price tag?, being a newbie, I am just naive & gullible...hence I turned to you for your PROFESSIONAL & truthful, real life experiences. God Bless. Thank You.🤩🤙🤘👋

[@edbrumbaugh9202]

Good amps ... I went with the PrimaLuna EVO 300 Integrated Tube amp. Very happy with it.

[@HiFiGOAudio]

excellent informative video, the amp's look godly!!

[@robertbellinger3007]

I love the way that you trial equipment. Both in terms of access to physical product and also the way you engage the viewer to the subject. Envy is not the right word regarding access to product but I wish i were able to source direct comparisons between equipment. I am starting from a clean sheet with no access to any components that would form a system on trial. So here is my problem, I am building a new home on an island in Greece. I need a system that works from the crate first time. My hearing preferences suggest the Doge 10 as the foundation as I am loosing definition at the mid to top end of the sound spectrum (Old Age) and I want to feel the resonance of violin and cello again. Base also needs to be well controlled to prevent the blurring and regain clarity. Volume I enjoy music played as though it were live be it in a cathedral, chamber, or front row of a rock concert. You get the picture. There you have it, a challenge to create a system from scratch that copes with my limitations. Budget = Max $12,000.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks, to choose the right speaker for you, take a look at my video on what speaker to choose. Your choice of amp is dependant on your speaker. If you choose an efficient speaker, you can get a way with single ended low power tube amps. However, if you choose a not efficient speaker, you would need a high power amp. To help someone choose a system is something that requires a lot of time because we all have different taste. I apologize in advance that I would not be able to go into detail with you. If you want cathedral level soundstage, also look into flat panels like Magnepan.

[@robertbellinger3007]

@@ThomasAndStereoThank you for your considered reply to my enquiry. The problem remains, I cannot choose a speaker despite your erudite descriptions as again there are no reference points. My original request went a long way further than perhaps you considered at first glance. In simple terms I am asking what you would put together as a system that pleased your personal preferences with a budget of say $12,000? You see I have listened to the descriptions of your tastes and they are as definitive for me as trying to make a virtual choice of a pair of speakers, an Amp, a DAC, Cables to finish up with a cohesive end product. The recipe of proceeding without access to all options and many many hours will almost guaranteemyriad of others

[@samtan6966]

I'm a midrange guy.. so it's Cayin for me. Thx Thomas for your video & effort.. really appreciated. Be safe. 👍😄🙏

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Only thing with Cayin, the stock tubes are lively so need to tube roll with them.

[@samtan6966]

@@ThomasAndStereo alright... Thx for your advice. 👍

[@patrickmccrank8414]

I'm so glad you did this comparison. Not because I want you to pick gear me. But because it shows that even though there can be clear differences. They are all outstanding performers in what is a popular price class. Yea we all want the best. Ideally none of us will ever have that if technology evolves as it should. Perfection is chased but never cought. What sounds good to any of us, will sound good to all of us. After that its about personal preference. One has more base. One strives for clarity etc. But you also hit on the most important aspect. We love our gear but, we should not hear the gear. We should hear the music. Coloring music is not how musicians intend us to hear. If you like base then listen to music that is played with more punch. If you like less then maybe you prefer acoustic. I would be happy to listen to any or all of these products. As far as your channel, why would you give up what you like best. Music, gear, and a happy community of followers. When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and swing kid.

[@Gassten]

The price here in EU is 1800 euro for R8 1900 CS 55. leaning towards the CS 55 got a pair of B&W 805 D3, but im not sure

[@TyrantTitan.]

wait, why are you shutting down? nm, just saw the message in the vid D;

[@trekjudas]

So, I did the right thing, I have my speakers facing down the long end of my room. It sounds a little better but the room feels uncomfortable as hell this way. The fung shui is all wrong.

[@dougg1075]

“ like spicy food, painful but delicious “ Love that

[@darrylland5659]

Nobsound biggest bargain 4 150 bought 2 it really works

[@imrulhaque]

There are very few people on KZbin who are honest reviewers and you are definitely one of them. It will be sad to see you go. Please take in consideration of having a break and come back after sometime, instead of shutting the channel. Thanks.

[@markfischer531]

If I had to choose the best integrated amplifier it would be between the Pioneer 1980 receiver and the Marantz 2600 receiver. An equalizer can alter the sound any way I want it to be. I don't like the sound of vacuum tube power amplifiers. The output transformers create auduble distortion even in solid state amplifiers like McIntosh. Tube amplifiers have low damping factors and the tubes start to self destruct from the moment you turn them on. I bought my first solid state amplifier in 1968 and never looked back. I'm not an audiophile, I'm an engineer and a music lover ... of some music when it rises to the level of a fine art.

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

No discussion other than taste..............with the Doge you will better understand complex music......the insight and intermodulation is far better..........i would like to try my BEST nos tubes in this kind of amplifier , just like the right amount of ingredients in the best " haute cuisine /gastronomique "......matching the right wine with the food........

[@toneysunny9283]

Nice to see you compare them, if they all use the same tubes.

[@psych0s15]

Thomas, you are my kind of dude. Not only could I listen to amazing hi-fi if I visit you, but I can also run some sets of Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Haha, man I have spent so much time on SF2 and now I am getting my kids into it.

[@armoth6958]

I own the PrimaLuna Evo 400 and a Cayin a100t and man I love the Cayin with Buchard S400, sounds amazing! ❤️❤️

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I wonder how the a100T compares to the CS100.

[@bahadiratay1694]

@@ThomasAndStereo between them there is 100TMKII. Orjinal 100T is 2x50(triode) and 2x100w (UL), 10hz-65khz. MarkII is like CS100A can use El34 and Kt88 tubes. CS100A 2x50(triode),2x80(UL) 8hz-75khz 92db (+3db more than 100T), and CS100A is used silver internal wiring in the signal path.

[@chihweiteng253]

Great summary Thomas! I really like that you brought up this system approach. Do you feel that the more expensive the system, the narrower the genre? Will there be a video on the type of tubes that were rolled on these amps?

[@Slant88]

Great review explaining the differences bw the amps. I have a much better understanding of the differences. We will miss you. Good luck with work.

[@brianmcnamara1431]

Would love to see a review of the Doge Monoblock amps. Look like a killer deal for what they are.

[@BeatPoet67]

The big problem about any hi-fi critique is that it assumes there exists some universal reference point by which things can be judged. There is no such point. Everything is judged relatively to what the reviewer has heard. And what the reviewer likes is entirely subjective to taste. When a reviewer says "transparent" or "forward" or "tubey" this only has context within his/her experience. My judgement is - how real does this sound compared to live experience. If the hairs on the back of my neck go up or I hear Elvis in my fucking room! when I close my eyes then that's what I call hi-fi.

[@bazassaminoteii8225]

I'd go further, most people's difinition of live music is via a PA, ie amplified instruments to fill the venue with sound, which is not the true live sounds of the instruments it's the sound of a PA.

[@TheBjjninja]

Great call. I am a data scientist. Show me the data after controlling for all the back door variables is what I would love to see.

[@joenovak6393]

If you like to get into Tube gear the 3 choices as Thomas suggested might fit your requirements. Output Transformers are the Key to a Tube Amp and if you do not have Bandwidth then you do not have Bass. 2017 I went to my local Hi-End dealer for PrimaLuna, McIntosh and Rogue Audio. I walked out with a Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP (KT150, NOS PHILIPS ECC82 Holland, NOS Mazda Valve 12AU7 "Pre-Amp")...Try tube rolling in a Mac.

[@darrylland5659]

Hifi addict love your content truly ✨ 💕

[@ledze973]

I don't find the bass on the R8 heavy and muddy, I paired it with the Buckart 400MK II. I preferred the triode mode with the Golden Lion EL34 and the Electro Harmonix 6sn7

[@vicg5323]

Nice review. I hear the difference between the three. All sound good to me on my iPods. I have demo the Cayin and it is magical. I am looking to buy it to sit side by side with my Yamaha As2100 for turntable duties.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Cool, yeah if you are going for emotions, the Cayin is great for that especially when you find the right tubes for it.

[@papapatriot]

You will be missed! Your the best!

[@holylighthealing]

You are finally coming into your own. You are direct and not qualifying everything you hear. Just saying it. Why are you closing down Thomas Stereo?