Thompson Grinder Restoration: Installing a 240v to 480v Transformer and Electrical Components

Thompson Grinder Restoration: Installing a 240v to 480v Transformer and Electrical Components
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[@jmazoso]

That factory wiring in the box shows real craftsmanship.

[@philipquinlan1045]

Agreed. I'd love to see how it turned out when all connections are in place inside the box.

[@davidlakatosh9456]

Always interested in the electrical, especially wiring machines. It's helped a ton over the last few years

[@jamesmoe9188]

Looking forward to the grind in on the table and mag chuck, been a long time since we had a good grinding video, and I can't wait to see those beautiful precision surfaces and watch her go through her paces.

[@rickpalechuk4411]

Hi Keith, great to see you looking healthy with your weight loss, however, new shirts are in order my friend 😀. As always, thanks for sharing. Cheers

[@bogartaspen]

It's always a pleasure watching you rebuilding machine shop equipment! I'm looking forward to you getting back to the "big Monarch lathe"!

[@BenButler1]

The attention to detail inside that electrical cabinet is amazing 🎉

[@W4BIN]

Audio level varies greatly, when the commercials hit it knocks me off my stool. Ron W4BIN

[@Paul-FrancisB]

Good morning everyone watching from Lincolnshire UK

[@AJ.Roberts]

Hampshire UK here 👍

[@iantaylor5579]

Peterborough U.K. here

[@billdoodson4232]

And Huddersfield here as well.

[@markloving11]

Lincolnshire UK, here too!

[@jimlock3514]

Sussex!

[@theharbinger2573]

Sweet new toy Keith! You might want some thread locker on the transformer mount. 60Hz laminated core transformers tend to buzz quite a bit when you pull power through them.

[@seamusbolton215]

The machine looks great, Steve Summers recently got a new surface grinder up and running and the machine turned out to be in great condition, hope you have the same luck

[@seldendaniel8819]

Well done, and in short order!

[@andywithers592]

Another interesting update from the shop. Hello from Switzerland.

[@tpobrienjr]

Looks and sounds good. Looking forward to see it in real action.

[@Farm_fab]

For those that don't know, one of the reasons not to use a fused disconnect on this grinder is that if one fuse would blow, it could potentially cause the motors to operate on single phase, and damage them. Keith has three phase breakers in his load center, and the breakers are joined on the switch lever, so that when one line would trip, they all trip.

[@ratdude747]

Or use a breaker disconnect... but in this case, no worries.

[@kennethgilbertdds7249]

Thank you for the break out description. Big help for the un initiated.

[@davidhamm5626]

And fuses have variations.

[@currentbatches6205]

A very good reason to hire professional help.

[@charlesblankinship5514]

😊

[@thisolesignguy2733]

I don't know about the rest of the viewers, but honestly if Keith was growing grass I would watch that lol. Thanks for the video Keith! I can't wait to see the first chips on this. I'm REALLY looking forward to the 10EE, I know that's a time consuming nightmare but it's going to be awesome when done.

[@evertwenderpirt6328]

Good show!

[@paulkinzer7661]

Having to put a lot of work into a new-to-you machine before knowing for certain that it is going to work can be nerve-wracking. I'm glad the motors are in good shape!

[@Mad-Duk_Machine_Werkes]

JUST PRICED IT two weeks ago- My local NAPA auto parts (Tampa FL area) had Hyd Oil for under $30/5gal

[@mathewmolk2089]

I get it at Tractor Supply, About the same price.

[@timziegler9358]

Amazing transformation on that machine. You do wonderful work! Best wishes.

[@jarmomalinen1823]

Instructive and entertaining as always. Thanks.

[@rossgebert-goldsmith183]

Wow Keith looking super slim and fit I'm working on myself

[@jameswalshjr]

Looking forward to seeing this in operation. Machine looks great, with the restored electrical and other bits, it looks like it's getting close to doing some work. Great stuff!

[@bcbloc02]

closer and closer!

[@thom3124]

Awesome update, Keith.

[@johncloar1692]

Look like the project is moving on. Thanks Keith for the video. Always interesting watching you channel.

[@wazzazone]

Hey Keith, love your channel and work all the best cheers from Australia.

[@VintageSupportServices]

I had a 1953 model, with a war effort tag on the head, Loved that grinder, gave no issues and added a wonderful bit of background noise to my shop.

[@walterplummer3808]

Good morning Keith! Another great machine get saved. Thanks for the videos.

[@sawmillmanthomas5209]

Looks great

[@kurtu5]

I have been busy the last few months and haven't had a chance to watch. You look great brother! Big change, I am really proud of you.

[@ElmerJFudd-oi9kj]

Jeez Keith, you ran that axle with the key in, luckily it stayed in.

[@beelerfamilyfarm]

Looking forward to seeing it make some sparks!

[@masteruniverse3506]

Nice work as usual.

[@terminalpsychosis8022]

That is a HEFTY transformer, and useful for so many different things. That'll live until the next overhaul of this lovely old machine. For now, my goodness, this thing is built to LAST. heh... even the disconnect is so satisfyingly industrial strength. CHA-CHUNK! Looking forward to see the rest of the tune-up, and eventually, some jobs done.

[@JFirn86Q]

Nicely done, it is looking great. Looking forward to seeing the next steps you mentioned and how you accomplish that.

[@kevinwayne7546]

so cool!

[@scrotiemcboogerballs1981]

Looking great thanks for sharing

[@thirzapeevey2395]

Another excellent restoration, my friend. Your work is so meticulous and beautiful at every level.

[@patrickmazzone9066]

Bravo good job enjoy

[@edsmachine93]

Awesome restoration Keith. I really like the electrical upgrades. Very nice and professional. Looks like factory. Was nice to hear the Thompson power up, sounds great. Thanks for sharing. Have a great day.

[@melshea2519]

Good morning Keith! 😊

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing. Very nice.👍

[@CraigLYoung]

Thanks for sharing 👍

[@ydonl]

Nice work! I want that machine. :)

[@WreckDiver99]

holding onto parts...LOL...Guess what happened to me. I was cleaning out the shop a bit, and SWMBO was cleaning out her 'stores' of 'stuff' as well. I said "I'll NEVER EVER use these things, I'm getting rid of them". I was also trying to show her that "See, even I can get rid of unused 'stuff'". ONE WEEK LATER yep...needed those items. :(

[@Hoaxer51]

SWMBO: She Who Must Be Obeyed. We all know who that is! Lol

[@mathewmolk2089]

That's how it done. Want to have a use for something? Take it to the scrap yard.

[@WreckDiver99]

@@mathewmolk2089 Yep...toss in the trash or sell it for scrap. 100% of the time. 100%

[@mudnducs]

Awesome!

[@erneststorch9844]

Your painting job reminded of a boss I had who wanted all the grinding machines in grinding room color coded . First he was going to have them painted bright yellow which was horrible . The older grinder told him not to do it . Then he decided to paint them all bright white. The old grinder ran a Ingersoll automatic cutter grinder with a beautiful gray paint from factory . The old grinder wouldn't let them paint his machine white . When the old grinder retired the very next day they painted it white. I thought all the machines looked like hell. What can you do he's the boss.

[@billdoodson4232]

I really like the electrical rewiring when it's done right. I really, really don't like the wire nuts though. I think Wago's or similar have taken over in th UK.

[@KayleeKerin]

They're starting to take hold here in the USA too. For 12ga wire, I pretty much use them exclusively and won't be going back for SURE.

[@loydsa]

Your usual high standard restoration Keith, love to see the electrical work. Best regards Sarah

[@Cerebatonify]

Completely unrelated to the content of the video, the transformation you've gone through is great, you look like a different man now.

[@timf6916]

Nice job. 60 gallons, that’s a lot

[@wayneclark7048]

Good morning World, I'm am in So Cal in the U.S. the crazy zone in Orange County. Wait all of California is crazy! 😊

[@Hoaxer51]

Good morning Wayne, from northern Ohio!

[@mathewmolk2089]

Time to make like a hockey player and get the puck out of there! We got room in Cleveland as long as you don't bring any So Cal NWO Marxist ideas with you. Manufacturing is coming back here.

[@CGT80]

Well, up here an hour or four from you, in the Inland Empire, it is certainly crazy enough. I don't miss driving to Orange County for work 11+ years ago. It wasn't full time, but I ended up with jobs in various placed down there.

[@sparkybell11]

Very surprised adding a transformer was a better option than re-wiring the motor.

[@accuracymark]

One thing to note, usually you don’t hang a transformer on the machine as it produces a 60hz hum or vibration through the machine. Most isolate by hanging on a wall off from the machine.

[@mathewmolk2089]

More then the motor? Machine mounted transformers are SOP, my friend.

[@jensschroder8214]

The US has many different voltages and power systems. 120V, 240V, split phase, 207V three-phase, 220V three-phase, 440V

[@kensherwin4544]

Standards are wonderful We need even more of them. /s

[@johncochran8497]

Well, the first few you mention are all based upon 120V ground to live. To wit: 120V - Basic voltage 240V - Phase to phase voltages with phases 180 degrees apart from each other. 207V three phase - Phase to phase voltages with phases 120 degrees apart from each other. (Imagine an isosceles triangle with the equal legs being 120 and an included angle of 120 degrees. The third leg will be 207.8461)

[@jensschroder8214]

In Europe we have agreed on 220 to 240V single phase and 380 to 410V three phase. rewiring is not necessary. Usually 230/400V 50Hz is used

[@Sagacity61]

You're so lucky. We can't legally do our own electrical connections in Australia. 😔

[@billdoodson4232]

Not quite that bad here in the UK, but heading that way unfortunately. I did my 18th edition regs and inspection and testing training and do my own work to the regs. I'll argue with anyone that all that matters is that the work has been done correctly to the regs.

[@geckoproductions4128]

Keith: I have a 220 3phase to 408 3phase transformer I took off a Holbrook C10 when I scrapped it. Located near San Antonio, VERY heavy. LMK if you need.

[@jimeadie4415]

Wired for “440 volts”. There is 227/480 volt four wire wye or three wire 480 volts delta. Suspect your currently running 240 volt delta and not 220 volts. That may be a boost auto-former and not a isolating transformer given the size.

[@edwinfriedl2446]

Clever to use the oscillating saw to trim the conduit. I'd probably grabbed my old trusty (and slower) hack saw.

[@gettingoldsuckss]

Get you some polaris lugs for those bigger wires

[@robertbamford8266]

Always amazing. I was wondering about the wires from the transformers to the motors. Same fabric insulation as the wires you shrink wrapped? Deterioration?

[@paulcopeland9035]

He said he changed all of those.

[@timprussell]

You should fab up a guard for the lube pump.

[@jukeman57]

Interesting video. By the way Keith, are those Keen work shoes comfortable?

[@joeblan9426]

Ran a large Mattison Grinder for quite awhile and noticed several similarities in the contour of the head and body. Just wondered if Thompson was a company that had some of the same engineers as Mattison?

[@bobflores]

So, is "pecker head" a technical term? When Keith rewired the spindle motor and was ready to put the wires back into the motor (25:40 time stamp) he called it a pecker head. Just wondering. This beast is just about ready to be put into service. Very interesting rebuild. Thank for the video.

[@robertstredde6798]

Not a technical term per se, but a commonly used term in the trade.

[@christianmccollum1028]

You will undoubtedly hear it called that on the job site. As a former painter, we would be there about the time the electricians were wrapping things up. I remember hearing that for the first time. 😂 say what?!

[@gregfeneis609]

21:00 Good ol' fashioned lacing right there, ladies and gentlemen. Some wires held together with zip ties, sure, but looks like a lot of the wires grouped together with lacing. That's a lost art fo sho

[@richw0123]

I just looked up the cost of a 55 gallon drum of hydraulic fluid, holy crap its 1-2$K. There must be a more cost efficient way of doing it, like using a much smaller amount with a radiator and a fan. Or as the machine isn't going to be used for all day production, stick some big blocks of inert material to take up some of the volume in the reservoir.

[@bchrisl1491]

The power from the input to output stays about the same, so that’s why the current is less when the voltage is more.

[@CHICOB4261]

Great video! Thank you Mr. Rucker. One question the title says “240v to 480v” is it 480v or 440v?

[@johnfithian-franks8276]

Hi I am surprised that you did not replace all the wiring with new wires as the scrimping only puts a very thine covering and new wire would have a thicker outer cover.

[@kindablue1959]

Typical shrink wrap has a rating of 600-2500V, so it's not a problem.

[@matthewkantar5583]

Would the transformer have been happy mounted on the door to the electricals?

[@silverbullet7434]

You can draw off other lines if you get another 440 volt machine , pending on the next power requirement.

[@robertschauer376]

Keith, what ever happened to the Landis CH Cylindrical grinder?

[@oldschool1993]

Speaking of electrical, whatever happened to that engineer designed motor control for the lathe.

[@MikeB0001]

Check out Sinopec hydraulic oil.

[@edwinfriedl2446]

When you need 55 gal + of hyd. fluid look into a drum. it is cheaper by the drum

[@michaelleskoske7723]

What is the fill material inside the transformer?

[@tomswindler64]

👍👍👍😎😎😎

[@gregfeneis609]

60 gallons of hydraulic oil? That must be around 500 lbs. I bet that lends itself to machine rigidity. Might want to get that oil in the tank before doing the final leveling?

[@SciPunk215]

The step up transformer doesn't add to the footprint or the height of the machine. That's a big plus !!

[@gettingoldsuckss]

Sorry maybe you said why but why not mount transformer on the wall or floor with a 3P 220V twist Lock, also that same circuit feeding transformer with another 3P 440V twist lock. That way you would have 220V and 440V twist locks for any equipment

[@mathewmolk2089]

Good work, especially the nonfused safety switch (I would not used a 3R raintite, though) but how 'bout a chase nipple out out the back of the Disco into the control box, then a piece of pipe out of the can up to a Jake or LB into the transformer. - Sealtite is a last resort in the machine building game my brother.

[@BillB23]

Here's a gratuitous comment for your analytics: Nice work! Please keep the videos coming.

[@mayw6326]

you mit won't to use heatsrink over to wire nuts to hold it better the electric tape it will last longer with heatsrink and if you change over no sticky tape

[@Simon-hc9mi]

Why does the machine require such a huge volume of hydraulic fluid?

[@kindablue1959]

For cooling. There is no active fluid cooler. One less thing to break down.

[@jamiebuckley1769]

holly man Kieth are you on a major diet or what your loosing weight big time?? hope your all good Kieth.

[@dolvaran]

Thanks for the video Keith - great to see the work progressing. But. Can you please review how you collect and manage your audio? Over recent videos there are several segments where the audio is so quiet it is inaudible. And of course increasing the volume results in a blast of sound when you cut to another clip with normal sound levels. It really spoils the viewing experience.

[@CothranMike]

This, ^^^^^^^ please. Use a reference tone, not just a clapboard. Best reference tones for your purposes would be pink noise grouped from 2300 Hz to 6000 Hz with a decibel level set for standard. While editing the video/audio as a set of elements for each shot and cut try using the reference tones to balance the audio (your video seems fine). If needed use an external audio editor to mark envelopes for gain and maintain. Export the final cut(s) and then remove the markers and reference tones when your editing is finalized. Hard to stop I know, but good enough is good enough. MikeC...

[@kindablue1959]

Guys, this not a a professional TV station. He does all the shop work, all the recording and all the editing by himself, as well as having a full time job. Your expectations are way overboard.

[@rogerrowsell5926]

440 USA volts not used in Canada.

[@paulcopeland9035]

That's why they are called "USA volts"!!

[@briand01]

​@@paulcopeland9035 Canada's voltages from world standards website Canada 120/208 V / 240 V / 480 V / 347/600 V 60 Hz

[@dolvaran]

How on earth can that machine need 60 gallons of fluid? Have you missed a decimal point somewhere? How many rams does it have? Surely can't be that many? There are excavators out there that use less fluid than this beast! Given the high cost of hydraulic fluid, is it worth spending time looking into a redesign?

[@gubr]

The hydraulic system does work a lot on this machine so the fluid gets warm, and instead of a cooler somewhere they just decided to put in more and let the whole case work as heatsink. Though if there is ever any crack in the iron this is gonna suck a lot. Maybe put a nice coating on the inside?

[@dolvaran]

@@gubr Ah! That makes sense. Thank you.

[@christopherkann6385]

What keeps the grinding grit out of the hydraulic oil?

[@kenburner]

Is that gravel in the transformer??

[@edwinfriedl2446]

I'm thinking vermiculite

[@ronalddavis]

kitty litter

[@paulcopeland9035]

@@ronalddavis It is definitely vermiculite!

[@ydonl]

I think it's popcorn.

[@Sagacity61]

Why don't you back your tap off every so often clear the swarf? You'd get it done faster and not risk snapping your tap ! All the best cheers from Australia

[@oleran4569]

At least he didn't just chuck the tap up in a drill and run it in dry.

[@CothranMike]

Sagacity61 cast iron does not require chips to be broken. The dust/chips are stuck to the tap since he used Anchor Lube and the holes are not through holes. A bit of air with a wrapped shop rag and he is good to go.... hth.

[@kensherwin4544]

Cast iron doesn't make long stringy chips that need clearing. They break up by themselves.

[@glentyan2505]

60 Gallons !

[@car9167]

that looks like a 3 phase autotransformer based on how small it is and the number of wires coming out

[@kindablue1959]

Yes, it's an auto-transformer, according to the American Rotary website. Still a type of transformer.

[@car9167]

@@kindablue1959Oh ok. I remember looking at their website for a 240 single phase to 3 phase 380V but couldn't find. Ended up building one with a 11KW inverter and bought 3 separate 110V/220V transformers and added more windings to make a 3 phase autotransformer. Costs me around $700 but I can run 10KW out of it

[@vandalsgarage]

I'm just speaking for ME and no one else, but I used to watch the vids from this channel for tips on maintaining the equipment in my shop, but there's just nothing that relates to a home machinist anymore. It's gee-whiz stuff, but I need practical tips on fixing and maintaining machines like a Bridgeport milling machine, or a 14" metal lathe. Anything that's too big to move with my 3K forklift won't have any interest for me. Keith's popular videos are all 8, 9, 10 years old.

[@ellieprice363]

Check out Mr. Pete’s channel to find hundreds of instructional and repair videos on common machine shop equipment such as lathes and Bridgeports.

[@kdenyer1]

Don’t say bulletproof in USA someone will try and shoot it 😂😂😂😂😂

[@The_DuMont_Network]

Sorry to be the wet blanket here, Keith, but IMHO the transformer mounted there looks as out of place as a Nissan in a Tesla Supercharger. Why not mount it in a convenient place on the wall, and have a 480 outlet which you could use should something else set for high voltage come in? The cord and connectors would not be that much more expensive.

[@mathewmolk2089]

That is SOP in the machine building world.

[@tuppyglossop222]

It’s a shame you couldn’t convert the errant motor to 220V. It seems like an inelegant solution to a simple problem…

[@davidhamm5626]

I think he said that the shop did not bring all of the connections out, of the motor.

[@johncochran8497]

@@davidhamm5626I seriously doubt that. If you look at a 220/440 volt three phase motor, there are 6 windings inside it, two identical windings per phase. In order to operate at 440 volts, the windings are wired in series. In order to operate at 220 volts, the same windings are wired in parallel. So to make a single voltage motor, the shop simply wound 3 windings in total with each winding suitable for 440 volts. An easier and cheaper job. So a dual voltage motor. Internally 6 windings. They are: 1. Three windings tied together at one end, the 3 unconnected ends passed out as 3 leads. Effectively, those 3 windings make up a low voltage motor with half the power. 2. Three more windings identical to the above 3 windings. Both ends of each winding is passed out, giving an additional 6 leads So we have a total of 9 leads passing out of the machine. And depending upon how those 9 leads are wired, you have either 220 or 440 volts. Cheaper, single voltage motor. Simply wind 3 windings of 440 volts each, tie one end of each winding together, pass out the remaining 3 unconnected leads.

[@kindablue1959]

@@johncochran8497 So you're calling Keith a liar? He said in a previous video he looked at what was done and it was too difficult to undo. Are you offering to do the rewiring for him? If so, send him a note on Patreon.

[@johncochran8497]

@@kindablue1959No. Merely that he's ignorant as to the details. If the shop actually bothered to make the 6 220 volt windings, then there would be no reason to not extract the 9 leads to make it dual voltage. But instead the shop make just 3 440 volt windings because it was easier and cheaper.

[@kindablue1959]

@@johncochran8497 He said in a previous video that he consulted with his local motor shop and they said because of the way it had been rewound previously, it would be cheaper to get a transformer than to rewire it again for 220V. That was exactly the conclusion of the guy he bought the grinder from and one of the reasons he sold it. But of course, you somehow know more than Keith and his motor guy. /smh

[@BillySugger1965]

Oh man, from the UK I can never feel comfortable about you Americans’ use of wire nuts, especially for such a high voltage. They just seem so unprofessional from a European engineering standpoint.

[@grntitan1]

Unprofessional? They work as designed when used properly. Which is the case with most products. But honestly, you Europeans need to get over your whole Wago is king thing. From an engineering standpoint.

[@gubr]

@@grntitan1 if the wire nuts were transparent so you could see if they did a proper job no european could complain :)

[@BillySugger1965]

@@grntitan1 I don’t use Wago connectors, but they do have the advantage of keeping positive pressure on a connection as it ages, and it takes up thermal expansion. Wire nuts do neither. Seriously, as a child with batteries and bulbs I used to twist wires together and wrap insulation tape around the joint. Wire nuts are one step up the engineering ladder from that!

[@larrywalker7759]

Actually, a properly installed wire nut DOES apply a positive pressure onto the connection by virtue of the "cutting threads" of the wire nut being like a coil spring. As you wind the wire nut onto the bundled wire ends, the coils of the threads are slightly enlarged or displaced and that in turn affords some compression to force the wires tightly together. Because this compression is due to the spring effect, it compensates for slight expansion and contraction of the join due to heat cycles and prevents loosening of the join from that effect.

[@taunusmechanics3121]

I think it don't matter, since every electric installation in the US looks like from the 30s anyway 🤣

[@lexpee]

Horrible, can you not mount that transformer on the ground. This does not make the machine any prettier.