Thorin's Thoughts - NA Scene Struggles (CS:GO)

[@Robot404_]

Thorin, Dude, you talked non stop for 1 hour 22 minutes, You da real MVP

[@hotisven7509]

Robot404 Not really

[@RobotEthanMars]

***** Someone didn't watch the video, since he clearly didn't talk for the whole video length at once, given his change of location and clothing.

[@Robot404_]

***** Haha, same here... xD

[@softrockification]

Hotel uses heating I see.

[@rizzcs6018]

softrockification Kappa.

[@justanotherstarinthesky]

+Rizzla CS KappaClaus

[@ReggieGeorge]

Sneaky Thorin using hotel Wi-fi to upload 80 minute videos.

[@druidzown]

Reggio George LMFAO callin em out, keepin em honest

[@kaigreen5641]

Reggio George In the UK we have unlimited broadband as standard. It would probably be slower to do it from a hotel too. So not really sneaky, more inconvenient.

[@ReggieGeorge]

Kai Green I see! Well that's further proof he actually lives in the antarctic.

[@HoobaBros]

Reggio George hahahahahahahahaha

[@stover14]

Kai Green He isn't in the UK.

[@Punkledunk]

"When people die, they need to shut the fuck up" LMFAO so true XD

[@keenzzyfps]

I havent watched the whole video yet but I FUCKING LOVE the bit at around 23 minutes about comms, its an everyday thing that people dont understand simple comms and not repeating unnecessary information. I usually miss sound queues also during rounds because of that.

[@darknestboy100]

26:40 He starts talking about "macros" which are actually conditioned reflexes which in this example are acquired by a lot of time playing with your teammates. Another example is training your dog that he is going to get food once he hears a sound or smells something , this action being repeated every day for a period of time. So basically in cs:go when there are 2 guys at a site and 1 guy says "i'm flashing/i'm peaking,etc" the other guy immediately knows what to do based on his playstyle and the playstyle of his teammate without thinking about it. It's a reflex. This is why talking is reduced to a minimum.

[@TheOnlyDeath]

Thorin left out a key part of the LG change-up and that was removing their IGL Hades right before they were going to LAN because anger had personal issues with him (going back to Thorin's comments about people not wanting to play with anger because he has a shit personality). They picked up arya to replace him and then removed arya and picked up pyth who they are gambling on. Now they removed fl0m one of the original members. LG lacks rifle power and frozt wasn't a consistent enough awp for them, that's why they put him on the bench and picked up ptr. It's just a huge cluster-fuck from them for the last like month or so.

[@Barmeester]

82 minutes oh baaaaby

[@christianespinoza8944]

It still isn't enough to let us know why NA sucks. Lol

[@filipbunalti]

Barmeester part 1 of 12

[@dinomitegaming4185]

Barmeester Call of Duty: OpTic Gaming

[@J0ulez5]

Barmeester time to grab some macdonalds and hunker down for the winter cause this is gonna be a long one :D

[@hakuza1211]

is there any important E-sport scene where NA isn't struggling? lol

[@ThePreplexer]

Rave Master Ahri we got mlg call of duty~!!!!!!!! BEST eSPORT EVER

[@bronsoncs]

Rave Master Ahri Call of duty. you're probably gonna say that cod isn't important but it's just as important.

[@legendofsource]

Rave Master Ahri NA is really good at fighting games

[@michael22414]

Rave Master Ahri Fighting Games are always pretty steady for NA. And in Dota2 there is a top 2/3 team in the world all year, arguably #1 all year, that is NA, but they aren't short on drama either.

[@terrorchode]

***** EG

[@TheMarathonSwag]

timestamps. someone. please.

[@Y29314]

When's the TSM (LoL) video coming out? Can't wait lmao

[@FrostedFlamesx]

One of your best videos perfectly details playing in the NA Scene from down to player mentality, play style everything

[@michaelciv1]

Do a Thorin's Thoughts on the new Team Kinguin!

[@SolveMyStyle]

Michaelciv1 I would really like this, but most likely thorin would just bash scream because he is toxic

[@goranpavlovic9051]

***** Scream is toxic? Never heard of that.

[@GioDude30]

I can't even disagree with this. I'm glad your calling the NA scene out and all there bullshit excuses. Hopefully some of them watch this and learn something. It's beyond absurd that they even have some of these excuses like you said. We are shit and the only way to get better is by getting better together. NA teams rely on fragging instead of teamwork....."just rush the site...we'll get the picks"...there is no strategy. You pretty much nailed everything on the hammer tbh. Excellent video 10/10.

[@Dunkelsunki]

Wow Thorin! This Video is soooo good. Its like a "how to play CS:GO". I think many Players can benefit from your Thoughts, not only the NA Pros. Are you going to make a Video about the new Kinguin Team and the german shuffle?

[@zhi2641]

the whole demo thing literally BLEW MY MIND as well thoorin...

[@WheelchairBilly]

THORIN WEARING NORMAL CLOTHES FOR ONCE? WHAT MADNESS IS THIS?

[@xKazuho]

Trick_CS ? he used to wear massive coats and stuff like that because he travels alot its normal clothing all the time xD

[@AssassinSaj]

***** No majority of his videos are done in his house which im assuming he doesnt use heating to save money. So it is rare to see him with no coats and stuff.

[@jeremy..-]

He's in France for the dreamhack tours

[@DeathLoney]

Look at Tox in Quake last year 2014 he went to Quakecon and beat Rapha (quite one sided aswell) and 90% of his practice was against lower tier opponents, practicing the most correct way for HIM to play. GG love this video Thorin

[@Tiger1286]

You should coach a pro team Thorin. The no bullshit philosophy would go miles to creating serious dedication. I think that what CS needs is people who have extensive game knowledge (with or without the natural talent to play) to organize the teams and crack down on the laziness associated with esports teams (NA in particular). If players aren't showing up for practice then they shouldn't be playing pro league in my opinion. You don't see professional athletes skipping training.

[@maddada]

I wish the echo wasn't there at the end, but all in all a really great thorin's thoughts! good job duncan.

[@concensivee]

NA, NA, NA, NA, NA...... Nobody cares about NA CS:GO. Let's get some Kinguin thoughts.

[@jdz1989]

James Jones No, no one cares about kinguin. Super teams very rarely work out, I'd be willing to place money on Kinguin not winning anything at all.

[@igorlipinski91]

jdz1989 Kinguin is not even a super team, lol. They don't have a single superstar, I would even argue that most of them are not stars at all...

[@gabrielsff]

James Jones esea does. they care very much. in fact, they care 500,000 more times than you do.

[@packers256]

James Jones I do.

[@gabrielsff]

James Jones south american here. you're just wrong, mate; it's not us.

[@tristanmerino3047]

Can you do the thing where you draft your own NA teams and put your ideal teams together and discuss them as you mentioned before, It seems like a very intriguing video idea.

[@Knalltüte6969]

can't believe i just watched this instead of a movie... thorin, you're a god

[@00HoODBoy]

This is what ive been waiting for! Brilliant, in depths Video

[@SSmilingSoul]

Just an idea, when you're giving examples of a strat that works maybe use some in-game footage of fnatic or vp then compare it with i-game footage of C9/CLG. Would give people even more of an idea :)

[@JuicyG_]

SSmilingSoul I love thorins videos but I think he is a very busy guy, downloading replays and editing his videos would take too much time and commitment. Notice that his videos arent really edited, they are a straigh forward clip with no pauses; I like this format but I don't think Thorin has that much spare time. But it would be cool to see happen.

[@Woo2Seok]

Takes too much time

[@trtnec]

CreeperCharged he could do what he did in the "Korea would dominate any e-sport" video and just provide links to clips w/ popups at the moments he talks about them.

[@kazumahyt]

I always end up listening to Thorin's rant videos why I do my work. :P

[@JohnSmith-tz7iy]

I love the analysis, Thorin. Great video.

[@TheGenericWhiteBoy]

Nice setup Duncan! Looking super professional.

[@iAMwReckLesss]

I immediately thought of Steel as well when you were talking about people talking too much when they're dead.

[@CptSaveABro808]

I've been looking forward to this one for a while. It points out a lot of similar conclusions that I, and probably many more, have drawn. I'm still hoping the NA scene will improve sooner than later. Australia and Brazil already seem to be doing the same. Maybe I'll make a HLTV post later to elaborate. Professional Gamers vs Gaming Pros. @ 27:36 This all day!!! Lmao I have to tell people this all the time in MM/Pugs/etc.

[@cssChiakii]

Could you possibly make a video about titan's maniac? Would be pretty good timing aswell since he seems to be in a good progress atm :) Keep making the good vidz and analasys, you're SO awesome! And love when you're on the analasys desks, would wish u get to the commentating/casting more often aswell :)

[@megalul7511]

you da real mvp thorin love when you cast matches with the other guys !

[@Inkkahh]

without watching the video I see one big problem, almost every cs player from NA is streaming the whole and is only pugging on ESEA, it feels like that they are not training really with their actually teams and doing strats etc maybe only the team leaser/caller but the rest.

[@markoilic1688]

Inkka It's even worse than that, did you listen C9' teamspeak at Katowice? They sounded like they are playing random pug at ESEA.

[@trtnec]

Inkka one of the few NA pros that are not professional puggers/streamers (being facetious there) and actually refuse to play pugs is Sancz from Nihilum, who is massively underrated I feel (and I bet one of the reasons Hiko joined Nihilum). I think he has literally one vid on Twitch and it's of him playing DM, and if you watch it, his one-shots are practically Scream-caliber, and reaction/flick time is insane, way faster than a player like Scream.

[@h.kubilay6160]

i used to watch this longass videos to improve my english now i do it because i enjoy it. i've seen the whole thing i want a medal.

[@leaguesavant8769]

I bow down before you. I was waiting for this, thanks!

[@Merth667]

Well, looks like I'm listening to this instead of watching a movie.

[@pyeclam]

The comedian is Jimmy Carr, for those wondering.

[@ike4523]

I love these long videos.

[@trtnec]

the one time he takes off his coat he gets a cold. Reminds me of the South Park episode with that super paranoid family that wore life jackets, and the one time their kid took it off he drowned.

[@bananajoe69420]

gotta love sp :)

[@carllokrantz7038]

Designing the style around the team is not only the best in e-sport but also in normal sports like in american football, basketball and more team sports

[@ianarmstrong1609]

CS:GO NA: The Movie

[@AdiosSalvi]

Going to buy some snacks for this one here we go BOYYYSSS!

[@gewd1]

Thooorin, if you ever start doing podcast instead, that would be awesome. I love the longer format, everything u argue is still relevant but youtube for 1:44 h is kinda hard to fit in your day u know.

[@bomerfan]

Thorin you should do a comparison between NA teams and the Australian scene, Especially considering that Team Immunity and Vox have been having success against some tear 2 European teams.

[@CYellowan]

39:00 Wow, never thought i was so unintentionally intelligent in terms of how to practice games. VERY interesting! I mean, i am not even from the CS scene. Does that just make me intelligent within the realm of playing smart? Time will tell.

[@jasonescobar9475]

OMFG YELLOW M8 love your vids

[@CYellowan]

Jason Escobar Don't mind me. Just watching my daily abnormally large dose of CS:GO content x)

[@skatersridge]

Yellow love your vids

[@CYellowan]

skatersridge Glad you are having fun then dude!

[@MrBixl]

Yellow xD didn't you sponsor pka a while back?

[@NuMetal92]

6 Vids in a row on CS:GO. Meanwhile major changes/events are happening in LoL and not a word about it? I don't mind CS:GO vids, but squeeze in some League, will ya?

[@famas7638]

NuMetal92 League is shit, no skill ceiling whatsoever. Even Dota is better.

[@OfficialSilentPLAYS]

You should honestly upload this to souncloud and itunes and make an RSS feed because I would download this as a podcast!

[@Hasardi]

One topic i would like to hear your thoughts on is Team Kinguin and their roster.

[@Dex1er_2000]

He took a shot at adreN... Damn thoorin damnnn

[@Docerdoc]

Darth Taters The irony of this comment in context to video is hilarious.

[@SlenderSquid]

Can't fucking wait for Summoning Insight. Thorin's bloody field day inc.

[@oboyy]

If koreans got into CSGO they'd be dominating off executes alone

[@Starft01]

var1ables Yes they would. When it comes to e-sports koreans are THE most dedicated people ever, and with good practice you get good execution.

[@oboyy]

Lucas Fernandes I know for sure they would, I'm not taking a blind shot. Some of the stuff they did in 1.6 with the least amount of time on the game was breathtaking

[@jus7addwater]

oboyy Then why did they not win every event? Your point is moot.

[@Advegsu]

***** because their executes were literally to smoke and flash the whole site with amazing synergy, it doesnt matter if theyd had practice against teams it would have still worked the same (i mean if u throw every possible smoke and flash from point a to point b to the exact locations they need to go, how can u really improve on that) to be honest the fact that they did practice all those executes 24/7 on empty servers makes me guess that if they'd had proper practice against top teams the other teams would have learned to counter them better hence making their strats less effective + in csgo, all these executes are a lot easier to counter than it was in 1.6, obviously im not saying that they werent amazing and possibly couldnt be amazing even in csgo, but as said earlier, the executes alone wouldnt not make them the best.

[@jus7addwater]

***** Yet they did not win everything. Point is moot.

[@mariuskamfjord4351]

Please do a Thorin's Thoughts on the Kinguin team. :)

[@kubabanan7930]

Hello Thooorin, can you leave links of the videos that you are sometimes reffering to during discussions/thoughts? It would help a lot to catch up the topic :)

[@veratek]

the commentary on com's was spot on.

[@PinehatLarry]

When does he talk about executes? I watched the video and wanted to send that part to a friend, but I can't find it looking back.

[@CYellowan]

If they could stop being so stuck-up, that would fix tons of things then? That, and actually not fucking around could do wonders. Not that we will see this any day when they grow up in the way they do (Or so it seems right now). Lots of the NA players can change themselves obviously. Will be interesting to see if it ever happens.

[@BenKuyt64]

I really, really, really want a Canadian major team. Seriously.

[@AimbotThundah]

+Ben Kuyt canada is NA shroud and steel are canadian they just play on usa teams cause its the same thing

[@BenKuyt64]

DINOSOWER! thundah I want an all Canadian team, through.

[@kazumahyt]

+Ben Kuyt well get the fuck over it, cause canada is fucking awful and no one gives a fuck about canada.

[@kazumahyt]

wayup lol dont even remember writing that comment hahahah nothing against canada :P

[@Fredagsblues]

Great deliverance as always Thorin! Next time wear the scarf, it will protect you from getting a cold ;).

[@dnnn9042]

thorin your next video should be like managing the economy on t and ct side or maybe corners and peeking

[@juanme555]

i think that the problem in general is, in a very brute way to say, that the u.s people is not used to cs pace, they are more of CoD and BF players, they care more about the K-D and they always think they're better than their rivals, thats why they just dont understand why are they getting so rekt against people that play cs as cs should be played.

[@pingu2992]

It's ultimately true. American culture breeds an extremely individualistic mental frame that clashes with the team based element of CS heavily. We just don't understand how to sacrifice for the good of the team. Hell, I've been consciously aware of this midgame and it still didn't feel right to do certain team play actions. It takes more than practice schedules to fix something like that, but NA needs every kind of disciplinary measure possible to have a hope of being world class anytime soon.

[@iNSPIREXD]

Honestly learnt a lot from this video.

[@smukberg]

I love watching your hands when you talk

[@sebastiantesch]

yes u saved my day finally another video thx

[@jam3s121]

damn his hotel had heat this time, no jacket!

[@NoobyRussian]

What would happen if they changed nades in CS GO. By change nades I just mean you can still only have 4 nades total but you can have 2 of any nade and/or a max of 4 flashes. So if you want 4 flashes you can. But if you want 2 smokes and 2 high explosives you can. I play at a GN4-MG games (go back and forth). I find that I am the only one that knows smokes for the maps I play (Mirage, Inferno, Nuke, and Cache). Most of my allies might know 1 but they never use it, or they mess up their smokes regularly because "oh I haven't practiced. I think having 2 smokes would be more helpful and wouldnt have to hope for an allie to die peaking so i can pick up their nades since they dont use them, and when they do they just flash allies. I think is would benefit the average player. However would this be a good or bad thing in comp at a pro level?

[@yeahyeahye123]

NoobyRussian This would be horrible for pro scene because flashes and smokes are already the most powerful thing you can have before the fight actually happens. Being able to have 2 smokes in a pro full-buy scenario would mean around 10 smokes on one site if they execute a push, or say 4-5 smokes on 1 site and 5 smokes in different areas like mid, connectors, shorts, etc., etc. And that's only the T side. CTs could choke off any point until round is over with those smokes, like, when someone gets info about split A on dust, they could smoke short three times and long three times as well, which would mean about 1 minute wasted for Ts, because they wouldn't push through smokes. The game could go into a stalemate if this change happens and pretty boring to watch, also. tl;dr there's a perfectly good reason why most nades have a limit of 1, only excluding a flashbang, so there's no need to change it, just because some people don't know shit in matchmaking doesn't mean you should break the game so few low-skilled players could *finally* execute a bomb site take. Also, potentially you can have 2 smokes. If you see one laying around and you already have one, just throw your smoke somewhere reasonable and take the other one. This doesn't break the game like having 10 potential smokes.

[@NoobyRussian]

Titas B. Thanks for the response mate, was just curious as to what people thought would happen. I know it would be different for the pro level, and that is why I essentially asked what would this do to the pro scene.

[@Seringacss]

i really like your commentaries but why you use headphones? Kappa

[@mementomikez]

Anyone watch shahzam on twitch, actually quite enjoying watching him for multiple reasons (good and bad). One bad thing is his comms, he tells the team every small thing he does, and every small thing that happens - would drive me crazy in a match

[@BubbleBuals]

*grabs popcorn*

[@SimulateMovie]

Wow these comments are actually great, nice conversation. I'm surprised

[@vampireknightvk]

shooting without thinking is pretty much America's motto to live by. why so much surprise that the na scene has that same pubby style?

[@DrBuffaloBalls]

To hell with the content in the video, what matters is that Thorin isn't wearing his 5 winter jackets :O

[@IMlillgubben]

Could someone link the video of steel, tarik and more?

[@fen1x_fpv]

talk for more than 80 minutes without stopping - only thorin things

[@VidCirman]

At least he's in a warm room again

[@rickross4223]

Adren said on his stream that he has only been IGL for the past week or so

[@babochee]

Is there a reason you keep your headphones on while talking in this and your other videos?

[@gavfishergav-lar3088]

What are these "pros" doing then if they aren't doing this stuff? I would have thought that this was the standard for a professional gamer. Especially for a tactical game like CS:GO. Surely they're not pissing all their time away streaming on Twitch..

[@eliulrich9393]

KeyD Stars (Brazilian team) is best in NA, wut. NA scene worse than Bulgarian scene? GPlay is Bulgarian, and I feel like they're better than all NA teams.

[@whenyouwinyoulose1942]

Google Negative KeyD Stars moved to NA to compete in ESEA Pro League.

[@rizzcs6018]

WhenYouWin YouLose best team NA then. Kappa

[@LittleJ1337]

Google Negative But the bulgarian scene in general is worse than NA's scene, just because they have 1 decent team doesn't mean the entire scene is good

[@eliulrich9393]

***** ok

[@WAMProducties]

Google Negative The lowest french teams are better than NA, Awsomniacs got 4 rounds against fnatic on 1 map which is the same that Liquid got on two maps

[@BLYFACTOR]

People in NA don't act "professional" is what you're really trying say. Being professional provides a good successful business. Think of NA as a business and all these invite level teams as Managers for a big company like EA. You can't just leak something like a team trade because you'd get fired and probably lose your respect. A company works together to build a foundation to make money and to succeed overtime and develop ways to make more money. Different strategies to sell this here and that there. Also being able to think smart and have confidence and a solid attitude. Proper people willing to make sacrifices for the better of business is what makes them successful.

[@b1amvideos808]

really like the point about how to practice

[@MadwinksMixedGaming]

I think that the NA scene is getting better. But it will take a while for them to catch up to the top tier euro teams.

[@mickeypopa]

I agree with everything you said, but there's actually a very simple reason why NA teams will most likely never be THE best, the very top of pro CS:GO. And that reason is this: they don't want it bad enough. Everything else is just consequence. Now, you might say that's all bullshit and this 'n' that, but I said this on reddit when sgares left Cloud 9 (and got massively downvoted for apparently being a "douchebag spewing nonsense") - they don't care enough to be the best, they are just a few friends dicking around while having all the conditions to be a top team, they don't have the eye of the tiger. Basically - they're Americans. Again, you might ask "But what has that got to do with anything? R u racist m8?!" Well, young Americans, as you may notice if you haven't already, have always had better opportunities and life conditions than their EU counterparts. They get their first car when they're 17 or 18 (which EU teens can only dream of), they can pursue an easy enough career in marketing or management or economics that will easily net you $60,000-$80,000 a year or more as a bare minimum. Casual weekends on the lakes, chilling on the boat, barbeque with friends every sunday, etc. Meanwhile, EU pro player is sitting home and practicing, grinding the strats, aim, and so on, because he doesn't have the money and opportunity to have fun elsewhere. So why should an NA player give a damn about CS:GO where he knows he can't even come close to the top without massive amount of work and can't even get close to making what he otherwise would be making if he had a job? He has no incentive. Even if he were winning every small tournament he wouldn't come close. Even if he won a bloody major he still wouldn't come close. They simply don't. care. They have their paychecks and that's good enough for now. And to be honest, I don't blame them. I can't say I wouldn't do the same if I were in their shoes. But I think people shouldn't be concerned so much about it, NA players aren't. They're just using CS:GO to waste a few years, travel around, have shit'n'giggles and that's about it. Later they can either get a job or move into casting/hosting, and so on. In any case, they don't need to force themselves because it's all about money, they don't give a damn about a title as long as they get their piece of the pie (paychecks, sticker money, etc.). Hats off to exceptions, which are few and far between. The IBP match fixing just confirmed this lazy, American attitude. For a few thousand dollars for god knows what (that they didn't really need), they ruined their CS:GO careers completely. Just like pinoy Dota players used to do to, except they actually did it because they needed money that they otherwise wouldn't be able to earn. That's something a serious European pro player would never do, he knows a gaming career is basically a golden goose, play games and get paid? Fuck yeah. If they cared, they'd be among the best now. Someone from Dota said "If you're just in it for the money, you'll never be the best, you'll never make it. If you're in it to be the best, money is just a side effect of your success". So in essence, if it was me, this video would last only about 5 minutes and that's about it. But I understand, you're a pro analyst and no one will hold it against you for trying. :)

[@wolfboylikesmetal]

I caught a really bad cold at the Faceit LAN too...

[@ВелиславПерчемлиев]

Who is Ex6tenz? plz If u can do it and if people want of course

[@Sirlerro]

I feel like Keyd might just get worse simply because scrims just aren't useful in trying to develop strategies here in North America. the AU scene is miles ahead of the NA scene even without the monetary incentive simply because they have a good regimented practice system, despite not having the monetary aspect.

[@Punkledunk]

I hope you don't get sick again anytime soon.

[@robhurt5039]

Almost an hour and a half of delicious Thooooorinnnnnn

[@MeepFaceJohn]

What you're saying about comms is Europe MM basics. Though because 40% of the people is bad at english, so you get some issues. Also, people don't like when you talk too much.

[@treestompz]

Excellent video. Keep calling NA out!

[@zwaxx]

The comedian you are quoting is Jimmy Carr :)

[@redpunk9]

"Some thoughts on the problems holding the NA CS:GO scene back." "Some thoughts" "Some"

[@jannesvermeersch5989]

sound quality of last part :(

[@PrankHobbyFilms]

What mic do you use?

[@durpdrup8318]

did anyone actually see the entire 82 min? im bored after 10 minutes.

[@pupu6oi74]

lol did not expect that sudden change

[@thelonewarrior5420]

dam the longest thought of thorin published so far.

[@MrDaleox]

no coat, no scarf... what?

[@VivaLaRazsa]

Juzh123 PRAISE THE HOTEL FREE HEATING !1!1

[@StuartChapin]

yet again, hitting the nail on the head. NA teams need a devilwalk to bring down the hammer.

[@SUPERTEROO]

1:22:13 -- nice! good warm up content for tomorrow

[@themunchantor]

here I was hoping to watch a thorin video inbetween a game in the skt vs fnc series xD

[@MsZaz90]

themunchantor lol same.Wtf thats freaky *high five*