Thorin's Thoughts - Assessing In-Game Leaders (CS:GO)

[@Spruce-Moose]

Sometimes when I'm unable to sleep, I just start listening to Thoorin. l usually fall asleep in 10 minutes and have to watch the video again the next day.

[@KIKOMK999]

Sometimes instead of listening to music I listen to thorin. His voice is just beautiful.

[@SHLEEEEEEP]

Voodoo Child i do the excact same thing lol

[@Lionbug]

+Voodoo Child i do that SO often xD

[@carlrennie1141]

respect

[@theshadowlands14]

I know this video is outdated, but seriously. To fix EnVyUs, replace Happy as an IGL, and bring in X6tenz.

[@Trick-iT]

"kio u-u,u run in the site, u shoot 2 the head, u turn around, u shoot 2 the head, we plant" :D

[@zim-chan]

+Luk “Trick-it” Triquet hahahahaha

[@temps1959]

kio sucks now lol

[@611delta]

...damn, Gla1ve was just footnote at the end of this video. Little did we know that he would go on to lead the greatest CSGO team of all time.

[@WSDaftPunk]

I can compare this 1h eargasm/show to my 1h girlfriend's scream of pleasure when we sleep together.

[@Thooorin]

Try combining the two.

[@Bananahead88]

Thooorin I only need you baby.

[@onose10000]

how do i make my hands scream?

[@Riceyes]

How can you sleep with a girl screaming in your ear all night?

[@tomhedge3852]

57 minute video damn thorin really doesn't like losing twitter wars

[@Thooorin]

I go hard in the paint.

[@jakkkkal4495]

Thooorin Hahaha +100000

[@zach1912XD]

GREAT listen, and as an in game leader of an esea open team it's great to hear what you think is valuable as an in game leader.

[@KristopherWilliams_tahmson]

Hearing you speak as "Happy" just made my fuckin night Great vid btw

[@apatterson11188]

i started laughing when he did the french impression of Happy

[@LaughingDave]

It's like you can hear how hard Thorin gets in these videos.

[@Thooorin]

Harder than trying to win events as kennyS in 2015.

[@Goxus95]

Thooorin I love you man

[@KIKOMK999]

Thooorin this is golden xD

[@fadvi]

For some of us, he's less known but B1ad3 is also a really amazing game leader. He's extremly good at executions and reading the opponent, he also does a fine job with scouting. Besides coaching hellraisers in Cologne, he lifted F3 (ex dat) to another level, recently managing to beat teams like titan, na'vi and lgb in bo3. I think these results are really good when you think about the players he has to work with.

[@OskarHowell99]

Dude this comment is crazy futuristic in the context of where Blade and Navi are today. Really cool to come back to this video and see this comment!

[@CanadianK1D]

The Happy impression at 44:44 fucking kills me every time.

[@LeLowii]

thorin your mono-/dialogues are just insane i laughed so hard at the bridge part always a pleasure to watch your videos

[@quinnsteeves295]

The Happy impersonation made me fuckin DIE Laughing LOL

[@DaveSP196]

57 Minutes I love it

[@xXStradoXx]

Your videos deserve more views and I hope you get to the point where you could do this for a living. The quality is so high and i missed them this past week.

[@lgzn]

I fucking lol'd at your Happy impersonation with frenchie accent... "you go to the site and shot to head, shot to head, he dead, then shot to head" hahaha.. awesome, Thorin. Keep it up.

[@TheGrizzlyHound]

Great insight, never thought about X6tenz being #1 before but the way you explain it makes it make sense. Love the 1hr video, Thorin, cheers.

[@MrNightWalkerz]

Never thought that Thorin was comedic, but looking through all of these replies. This guy is hilarious! Great video, keep it up.

[@I7G]

57 minutes of thooorin, i'm not sure i'm ready for this commitment :]

[@DzikaSurykatka]

I couldn't stop laughing from 44:44. More of this please :D

[@SawyerGaming]

Another amazing video from Thorin!

[@jasonescobar9475]

Like watching your vids m8 ;)

[@Raumance]

Holy shit Thorin your on fire lately. Best in-game any game analyst Thorin.

[@victork9706]

+Thoorin who is your favorite sport analysis outsite of esports

[@Thooorin]

Victor K Hubie Brown in the NBA. He's out of this world.

[@ashchase]

I lost it when you started doing that French Happy impression. Voila..

[@ElmortoSen]

your happy imitation is truely amazing

[@birdrescue1]

About EnvyUs, i saw NBK sometimes taking back his role of lurker lately. I do believe Happy needed time to adjust the game with the new line up. I do hope EnvyUs will build up with Happy working more on his IGL role, and with Shox and others being more consistent. If they go like this, 2015 could be EnvyUs' year. That's only my point thoug Great video though Thooorin, I do enjoy your talks, even if i'm a baguette who sometimes hate your accent, 'cause I can't understand all and need to reload video xD

[@ukrabro]

So basically the EnvyUS has to go back to the players' roots? NBK back to the lurker and Happy as 2nd fragger / igl?

[@franciscosantos5575]

I love how at the end he just end the conversation so rapidly. And next time Thooorin, record on your bathroom, you almost give as a tour of your house. :P

[@nooobiechild]

thorin is a master at replicating the voices of the french players

[@dumbo701]

Thing with pronax is he applies his intuition on CT rounds as well, it seems he always manages to stack his team on the right site when there's a 2vX 3vX etc which makes their CT side even stronger.

[@alexandruvasilescu1192]

I liked the tone of his question "Now... what is Pronax good at?..."... :)) Thorin Search For an Answer... Please Wait....

[@HyPeRQsZzZRaymond]

Damn man you are a literal genius thooorin, i think no matter what field you went into you would be a genius in it, great as video always, also i'm re-watching all the fnatic podcasts its funny seeing your hair evolve

[@AbirZenith]

I died at 'It's not like we are talking about Nothing here' XD lmao

[@SeekTheMoon201]

57 min ? damn thoorin really wanted to express his love for ex6tenz ;)

[@FABRYKAESPORTU]

That kioshima part was the best :P

[@jamesbattista5397]

52:54 And now he's leading Astralis to finals. Thoorin you fucking GOD

[@poopstick7809]

At 45:25, isn't scream one of csgo's greatest aimers? I get that he's inconsistent but u did say that kio was on fire. I don't follow pro csgo too much so correct me if I'm wrong

[@viktoreee]

Vid from 9 feb. 2015

[@J0ulez5]

18:00... was that from monty python?

[@hampusjansson2971]

Hi Thorin! I was wondering if it would be possible for you also release your thought videos as podcasts on for example itunes? Would love to be able to listen to in an easy way on my phone. Keep up the amazing work!

[@AsEnIxX-wtf]

Man, he gave a shout out to the future G.O.A.T IGL candidate, gla1ve, 5 years in advance.

[@KanbaruS4n]

If i remember correctly Brady scored 3 more Touchdowns in the first year after Randy Moss left and after that he failed to score more then 30 just once that beeing 2013. Even in the 3 years leading up to them aquiring Moss he was at least in the top6-top3 range in touchdowns. Even though I agree with your point, I don't think that Moss example specifically holds up here. But you can say, after Randy Moss they drafted a guy named Rob Gronkowski and the only year Brady didn't score at least 30 TDs in the post Moss era was when Gronkowski was basically out for the season 2013. That's why I think your point here is still valid, because with the exception of his early years and 2013 he always had a player who could be concidered the best in his position at the time. But that is also true for Ex6TenZ with KennyS and Bradys offensive cast never really had a Top Player aside from those two. The rest of his offensive support seem to be pretty much interchangable. Welkers departure didn't make a difference because they found a role player in Edelman who was concidered a huge downgrade from Welker but Brady made it work. Also the Patriots never had a rungame. The first year they had one was this one where they won it all. (Funny enough the rungame was an absolute non-factor in the superbowl.)

[@91jshot]

Thanks for the video bud. +1 Sub. Your analyst is spot on in depth and detail very much what I was looking for, and you're always a thrill to watch live. Finally, was wondering what EPL team do you support?? Please dont say Man U or Chelsea

[@shantanu275]

Watching this in 2017 makes so much sense

[@hammerx6]

hey thooorin, do you think a lack of in game leadership is a reason for NA teams often struggling against EU teams?

[@dubjamdnb]

Fukin best Thoorin video of the month.

[@Agniratha]

The Rant About Bridges. Fantastic! haha

[@ayoubhr77]

It's funny how you finish your videos, 57 minutes talking without a single stop and suddenly the video ends. Great video, u convinced me in many points.

[@nochera84]

What comes to mind about all this, is that gla1ve couldn't make other teams work as well as Western Wolves were at times, even though he at CPH Wolves had a team very similiar in terms of skills and style to what he had, at WW. This makes me believe that it was more a perfect set of players together in WW and not as much gla1ve who created that success. I am taken aback that Blad3 isn't even mentioned in this - as a coach he lifted HellRaisers to a level we didn't see them perform at for a LONG time and the word is that most CIS pro players think of him as the best IGL in their own region. He was also the IGL for Ukraine when both him and Zeus played at the team. There is also things I don't like about the top two mentions in this list. Ex6TenZ had for a long time a tendency to force-buy, which kept KennyS without the awp. The awp is crucial for their team strengths and their gameplan. Also I believe that their offensive CT strats are becoming such a rutine and the timing of them, so that others know or atleast should know when it is coming. He is not that good at mixing it up - properly because they rely on KennyS and to make a push from his position or in combination with him. Neither do I like the fact that Maniac is sometimes the lurk player (atleast on mirage and cache) when you have aPEX on the team which was so amazing at that stand-alone player for LDLC - it also forces aPEX into a support role where he is needed to flash for KennyS. It really is a strat that makes no sense when he is a better aimer than Maniac and they are most likely very equal in terms of awareness. With Zeus it is more about the late pushes, which have lost them alot of rounds. There is no reason to push your own team to the limits and why not give them time to adjust if something unexpected happens. If we go back there are plenty of teams who utilized late pushes like MiBR, alright the rounds were longer, but they atleast allowed themselves time to work with if something did not go as planned. Besides that I like the points and that this might teach people that it is not all about frags and the beliefs that has arisen that Happy is the best igl.

[@G3K0N5]

Love your comparison with having an idea and actually making the idea come to life (bridge example). The same example could be made of the movie Social Network about making Facebook where Mark Zuckerberg fights legal charges against stealing an idea of making Facebook and he goes like "If you are the inventors of Facebook - You would have invented the Facebook!" Brilliant!

[@DrThraxFTW]

I aways hear this while playing some DM, the guys complaning about the length: do you actually stay 30-60m lookin at thoorins face every time?

[@williambertucci6573]

Every time i watch one of your videos I realize how little i know about CS.

[@ZomfSharkAttPot]

enjoyable as always thorin =D thx , keep it up

[@DD-vc7fq]

"Happy is one of the top players in the world right now. He is in top 10 players for sure." Just lol. Which player exactly has been better than Happy in the last 3 months? He was mvp in 2 out of 3 last tournaments he played, including 1 major (aka championship). I am a little bit sad you didn't cover your theories by examples on some of the maps and stuff like that. But still a great video.

[@RezCut]

Krimz, KennyS

[@DD-vc7fq]

ReZzeRwsw Except KennyS. Sorry, but Happy has been playing better lately than krimz. Also better than olofm

[@HyPeRQsZzZRaymond]

eiv ANANANA No we seen how massive of an impact Krimz is when he wasnt playing in the fnatic vs CW game, fnatic got destroyed, also happy hasnt been carrying his team the way Krimz has, and dragging them to top 2 in the world

[@DD-vc7fq]

HyPeRQsZzZRaymond What? The guy was mvp of the DHW which is a major (like a world cup for csgo) and on mlg Aspen. He is the best player of envyus who are currently ranked no.1 in world. Period. If you think that is the reason why fnatic got deystroyed, than you don't know a single thing about cs as a game. They got raped because two players from regular line-up didn't play that match, which basically means all tactics and strategies from fnatic fall in water, as two new players don't know those. If, for example, pronax and flusha didn't play for fnatic that game, CW would've raped them even harder.

[@HyPeRQsZzZRaymond]

eiv ANANANA Im pretty sure carn would have had at least a decent idea on the strats, and if that were the only reason they were shit then in a hypothetical situation where a Krimz clone was playing who was the exact same just shit at the game since he knows the strats they would dominate them the way the normally would. And i would say DHW is more like the champions league since only EU teams can actually compete (kappa)

[@TheArdpieter]

Being drunk AF listening to thooorin not knowing what he is talking about... i love it

[@0dWHOHWb0]

How about 3DMAX's natu? What do you think of him as an IGL?

[@RhokuTV]

"1 minute per inch" Thooorin's motto

[@00HoODBoy]

i agree about ex6tenz, this guy has something about his leadership and gamesense thats really special and sometimes has me on the edge of my seat. i would really like to see whats going on in his head, for example in the ios pantamera. hes done great and build a reputation

[@steezx47]

do you think dazed could be in your top list? the amount of hours of him studying teams and dedicated to IGL and figuring out how other team plays is pretty impressive. he hasnt proved himself a lot lately even since that match fixing scandal. but if that never happened i think he would be top 5 in the world.

[@oscarwong67]

I personally don't think Dazed is at that level, maybe he could have been, but Ex6TeNz is considered a genius of cs, Pronax is an absolute mastermind of reading teams

[@pancho9392]

+Oscar Wong inb4 "He's not good because he threw"

[@miamisinan]

thorin do you think that any of the top teams will do changes in their roster or do they need roster changes??

[@IanFrostbite]

EnvyUs first? they still havent beaten FNC Bo3 on LAN

[@Zaltixz]

They would've if fnatic didn't boost on Overpass

[@wormi27z]

your forgot the Kappa

[@zanoringaming6758]

Zalt Never happend.

[@chimichangarocket]

Zanorin Gaming 13-3 and fanatic was on an eco, its not like you can just ignore it lol

[@Thooorin]

Hence why I called them the best team in the world, not the best at beating FNATIC in Bo3s.

[@wngo70]

Serious question, as spectators, how do we assess who is a good IGL since we don't get to really hear what's going on in the comms?

[@Plyushch22]

+William Ngo watch old hell raisers, they tried zeus strats, did not work most of the time. BOOM

[@MrOneofakind777]

What do you mean by that? Are you saying that Zeus is not a good IGL or an incredible IGL that a team should be built around him in order to succeed?

[@sunbae-nim]

Hey this guy knows, Na'vi haven't been good since ESL New York without Zeus :P

[@NotASummoner]

Thooorin showing his eye for talent calling out Gla1ve here.

[@steveheist6426]

Thorin mentioned glaive and I thought "That's the guy who brought Astralis to a major win as IGL. Wonder if the list is different today."

[@shakalpb1164]

Why Cs Source doesnt count also as Counterstrike?

[@svenschukat2958]

amazing Happy impersonation

[@seacon7378]

What do you think about Uzi? I always thoughs he's been good, mostly in LDLC, but I still today I think he's underrated

[@MrTacticalinuit]

Xizt vs Fifflaren? What do you guys think?

[@johanandersson178]

Is that even a question?

[@eugene3944]

I find it kinda funny, cos one of tournaments I saw Fifflaren being IGL, he was playing better than most of the ones he wasn't calling. Maybe a coincidence, and I would still say Xizt is a better caller and player overall.

[@ukrabro]

Also to add on the responsibility and fault of the igl aspect, if the players 'deviate' from the strat due to their ego (because who the fuck knows what is going on in their head), how the f*ck can igl be sure what has gone wrong during that round and evaluate the reason behind the lost round? Is it just that the execute is bs, the fake wasn't sold, etc - it makes the feedback for the igl erroneous and makes it troubling for him to call the strat for the next round.

[@thomaspham5672]

Could you do a video on NA IGLs? Particularly adreN

[@heratheprickly]

Ex6TenZ is a genius

[@TheTSicKK]

Great video once again, thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[@skitzoooo]

I'd really be interested to see you talk about people like Tr1p, Rambo, xqtr, carn and vilden. You could compare them and talk about their strengths. I was hoping these names would come up in the video! Anyhow, great video all the same.

[@ValorousFogey]

Thorin, I'm a fan, but why does it always look as if you are saving costs on the energy bills. It always looks like you are talking in a house where it's 0 degrees Celsius! lol.

[@nochera84]

British houses and flats are a disgrace when it comes to insulation and most of them haven't been renovated for years. Though they are trying to implement more energy saving projects...

[@Longyyy]

nochera84 can confirm live in uk with house that has no roof

[@swack1847]

the happy impression made me die laughing

[@ThaMovieMakah]

Holy moly, long episode this time!

[@imKRAK]

lost it at the bridge idea part

[@tHEdEPOSITbOTTLE]

Do you think it would work if Zeus created an international team with really great players? Will that ever happen? We have never really seen a international team in CS. I'm mean most cs players speak english, so why not? Why hasn't it happen? It works for the LoL/Dota teams.

[@dooh]

Great video, more please! :-)

[@sufferant]

Loving this channel! Keep it up :)

[@JaerMedina]

Highlight of this video is Thoorin talking to himself.

[@RHCPhooligan]

Links to important points in the video would be nice and would make it more do-able to have 1 hour videos

[@Lybrel]

You're listening to CS commentary5... it's not like you don't waste hours of your day.

[@O247G]

Dat french impression. Holy shit

[@crocaliph]

u forgot to mentioned that ex6 was the one who started to full buy the second round after loosing the pistol and he was the one whos team started using scouts on second round :D

[@XLucifersX]

do a video on ScreaM pls !

[@Longyyy]

44:45 Fucking brilliant "That's not a fucking tactic!"

[@tare_]

Yess. I've been looking forward to this vid.

[@DayyMeeBear]

I don't think are many proper igls now in GO we're at that stage again like in 1.6 where the role has become almost pointless. Every single team and the players already know all the strats and they've played the game long enough to know how to adapt to every situation. I rarely ever see one player leading now usually the whole team pitches in. There are some odd examples like Ex6tenz or Zeus that can take control of a team but they just become detrimental as they can't put up big numbers like players like Happy

[@seventus]

I've always thought Ex6tenz has a great IGL style and is a tactical genius.

[@lukejackson1121]

Thooorin Titan confirmed +1/2 in Thorin's rankings.

[@LOADINGNEO]

could you make a video about like *the perfect Csgo team* ? with the best players

[@noots4332]

Can you please do your top 10 player

[@lemonpunch2567]

Some life lessons at the end of this video.

[@deadmanavir]

Thorin kept going on about "great IGLs". Well how does he define it? What does a great IGL consists of?

[@edouardc.7775]

He literally talked about it for a hour...

[@eugene3944]

Watch and listen to the video. That might help.

[@jamiecoffey4666]

ImJustDead watch the vid before you comment

[@PivBlast]

Envyus = French Hellraisers?

[@TylerGG]

Great video, agree with pretty much everything, but I think one quality that you overlooked as a trait that a great IGL needs. Leadership, its something the NA scene lacks alot. We have guys who are smart and can do tactics, but they cant get 4 other guys to buy into their system and believe in one another. The further we go into CSGO the more i think this will become less of a component because it will be replaced by coaches. I just think that ex6tenz should get more praise in his actual leadership of his team, as they respect him a ton even when his skill isnt up to par.

[@ceeebiscuit]

nothing relevant but the way he picks on his stache is so funny to me lmao.

[@outridertushonka5865]

57 minutes, is that a new record? :O

[@residentevilmasteify]

I don't agree with him saying that fnatic has weak T-side rounds. I mean they just recently got 7 rounds on T-side nuke against arguably the strongest team in the world (envyus)

[@Thooorin]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut eventually

[@KIKOMK999]

You know that envy literally doesn't even practice nuke, right ? Some teams just hate it. Navi doesn't even know the callouts for nuke.

[@MogFlintlock]

As was mentioned in the video, Fnatic is a weak T-side team for how much raw skill they have in general and pronax is a very hit or miss in-game leader. Which means that yes, sometimes, he will have a series of 'hits', but, in general, his weak T-side leadership is somewhat shored up by the skill of his players. To extend the idiom Thorin used above, it's much easier for a blind squirrel to find nuts when it's surrounded by 'em. Also, one game is rather obviously not an adequate sample size, regardless of who it's against.

[@ArneVanDenHaute]

I've always hated you but this is pretty good. Watched the whole thing, ty

[@carlrennie1141]

waited for the impression at 4444