Thorin's Thoughts - You are Elo Hell

[@benjaminzaugg1127]

we judge other by their actions and we judge ourselfs by our intentions

[@firmlygraspi1]

"Good drivers don't get stuck in traffic, just get good scrub"

[@rjw19]

Lol that example was stupid but he makes fair points

[@JordanYee]

+firmlygraspi1 good drivers get stuck in traffic, but rarely are they the cause of it. i don't know about other countries, but at least here in the united states, the _vast majority_ of major bumper-to-bumper traffic jams are avoidable with different behavior.

[@GiuseppeGaetanoSabatelli]

+Jordan Yee +firmlygraspi1 Actually, you can check radio for accidents, avoid rush hour, adjust departure time, watch high traffic areas on Google Maps, and use quick decisionmaking coupled with a reliable car and proper signaling an never get stuck in traffic.

[@JordanYee]

Joseph DiSalvo all true (though dependent on where you live). still, that completely circumvents Thorin's point, which is still valid - traffic is created by the collective behavior of all drivers, and if all drivers lived by the criticism they give to others, there would be a lot less traffic in the world..

[@GiuseppeGaetanoSabatelli]

Jordan Yee Well, that's not entirely his point which conflicts with one of his other points - which is the point I'm trying to make which is in refutation of OP's point: There are some players/drivers (pro players) who can consistently play/drive well given the number of skillsets they've mastered. I think OP was trying to basically refute Thoorin's points *using* the traffic analogy by saying even good drivers get "stuck in traffic" (elo hell), but this isn't entirely true. Good drivers can avoid it, much like how good players can get to high elo.

[@xzst]

"omg, im silver elite, but i play like mge, but my team always brings me down" - every silver-gn ever

[@dethroe57z]

+smok3ybg xD

[@avramcs]

heres the thing though, it is true sometimes. you can even see it in competitive csgo play i have seen it happen in silver games

[@bcrunch]

+fullylaced23 no it isnt

[@sgtpepper91]

+smok3ybg MGEs play like silvers anyway. with a SLIGHTLY better aim

[@avramcs]

Bobocrunch1 cough cough KennyS during his time on Titan

[@Bezmenov93]

This is the best video ever, u just open my eyes, I was creating excuses for myself, ty Thorin!!!! BEST VIDEO EVER!!!!

[@KrakensWrath]

+GutharNBA Serious commendation for being so open minded on the matter. Thorin can appear a little antagonistic at times.

[@AlexanderTawa]

+Robert Wilkins I watched his more recent video called "Your Real Level" and it inspired me to just solo queue and try to improve through experience.

[@vvvortic]

pffft, teammates are elo hell not me, dordin spreading misinformation about elo hell when he himself doesnt pray the game to experience elo hell, therefore dordin is elo hell, gg

[@coldDrive]

+vvvortic it's kind of funny how your weird influence kinda made people stop (or at least slow down) complaining about elo. I don't know if you made this on purpose, and I personally never agreed with your particular brand of trolling, but you outlie how ridiculous it is to complain about elo "i deserve challlenger"... well, platinum, used to be a legit unironic complaint on the old riot forums. The internet kinda stopped saying that over the lasttwo years because of how ridiculous it sounds, how ridiculous this account sounds. You probably will not read this, and if you do, you will read it in character. But for all of that, if not for anything else, thank you.

[@pilliger101]

+vvvortic why arent you commenting on dunkeys vids no more

[@NumberOneBlitz]

+vvvortic you should of mentioned something about the hobbit and how he just wants smaug's gold

[@Pong670]

+vvvortic video dedicated to bbbortic

[@senTien.6]

+vvvortic I knew you would comment on this. GG. Make " How to be tsm wukong" pl0z

[@Liteg0]

I am the guy in CSGO that leans entirely on my aim. The only problem is, my aim is shit.

[@notmenotyou]

I'm Diamond and I play like bronze 3, but my teammates always bring me up :( Fucking elo hell

[@him9952]

+ThePanicLegend that is like the opposite to what Silvers in CSGO say about themselves. I don't even know if you're saying an excuse or reason, in comparison to my first point.

[@notmenotyou]

M making fun of those who say that

[@Bloodl3ath]

+ThePanicLegend I'm diamond. Got 3 silver accounts to platinum in a week even though "its impossible to get out of silver becasue I always get retards".

[@notmenotyou]

is this really so hard to understand, it was a joke, making fun off those who say the opposite.

[@innos146]

I think I'm in the wrong skill bracket too... I am Supreme and I think I belong to DMG. Seriously, i suck

[@minhhuynh1348]

+Innos I'll Glady Trade account with you :D

[@Taylan5561]

+Innos believe me you dont want to be dmg,im dmg and i still see people buying a ump on ecos and rushing long to die an idiots death

[@kristupasantanavicius9093]

+FirenX951 You can't really watch silver / nova replays and compare them to LEM. silver/nova players are like bots. They just stand in 1 place, don't move at all and don't even shoot. Its like shooting stationary targets. Maybe thats why you think your aim was better before.

[@rizzcs6018]

+FirenX951 That reminds me of a sick clip i recorded when i was in silver, i rushed long with a CZ on a eco, killed their awper, took the awp and aced the team. Does this mean i was a god like player at silver? No, it means the people i was playing against were fucking horrible xD

[@rizzcs6018]

***** Maybe you are just getting to old dude xD

[@TheSapphireflyer]

happend 20 min ago: I play CSGO at a friends house on his nova account. I am GE on my account and never played in silver ranks. I go play mm and want to defend the mirage B site. One second after I throw the smoke 3 T´s are running through the smoke and kill me becuase I wasnt prepared. I was like "WTF? Noone does that in GE ranks". Thanks for reading this boring story

[@GantXP]

+TheSapphireflyer It gave me a laugh

[@JustinManJustin]

+TheSapphireflyer It's ridiculous. They play so unexpectedly.

[@jiakai8940]

+JustinManJustin ^

[@Twiggyay]

+TheSapphireflyer That's me in casual. No one pulls that shit in LEM.

[@TheSusanWojcicki]

+TheSapphireflyer I'm MG2 and I'm still not prepared for that shit, I throw a smoke or flash then they randomly push like fucking Spartans..

[@Elokym]

Thoorin. The only channel where you can get advice for Competitive gaming and weight loss.

[@coldDrive]

I'm on some kind of reverse Elo Hell, where everyone is way better than me, and I gain far more LP per win than i lose on losses. It's hilarious, really.

[@dragonfrootzkekw2016]

Love the points in this video. Saying that you are supposed to be in a higher skill group because your teammates are bad is just plain ignorant. If you really are better, help your team. Teach the people around you and don't be toxic about it. There are tons of parts to a game and you may be better in one aspect of the game than others. However, you may be sub par at another aspect of the game. Teaching and learning about the game creates a community that makes EVERYONE better. Yes, there are people that will refuse to accept advice but that is their loss.

[@ruthven78]

yep, I've started watching my replays to make note of where I mess up, and started practicing each area....Im bad on position and watching the minimaps...that is what Im currently working on.....since I have started reviewing my own flaws, I've started increasing my rank

[@nikisrb]

we are waiting for thooorin vs cs go subreddit! thanks for the constant uploads tho! :)

[@Punkledunk]

I'm only gold Nova master in Csgo. Sometimes I play really well but other times I suck massive cock. Im the opposite to a lot of people when I lose. I get really distraught and mad at myself for not being good enough.

[@jackrsmusic]

thats happens to my friend i think its because he can be really good as you stated about yourself but when he does really bad he knows he can play better and it is so significant he doesn't blame others because he knows its his fault if you or when you become more consistent you will blame less of yourself. Im not saying you are like ordinary and you are just another guy that blames others I'm saying that could be some of the reason. also if its your aim or gun play that is 'inconsistent you may want to adjust your mouse sensitively preferably lower that helped my aim become far more consistent because high sensitively can be really inconsistent that might help you if u want to improve

[@kirinkappa5662]

+Jesse Spika It makes you competitive and it will indeed make you better in the long run. After I took a long break from LoL I become so damn bad that i tend to be very often very angry at myself for not anticipating ganks, missing skillshots, forget to ward etc. But I worked my way back and im improving now. It's a good kind fo beeing mad/angry that makes us tryhard as fuck.

[@tomeknaj]

+Jesse Spika At least this is a decent level, you're not a silver. I can relate to that, I have the exact same rank. However, "uncarriable" games also happen on this level, people troll or have absolutely no idea how to play the game.

[@xMartyZz]

+Jesse Spika I am in the same boat as you are, I don't ever recall me blaming anything else than myself in CS:GO. I believe it's because 99% of the time that you die, you could have done something to prevent it. You don't have that element in other popular FPS games. And that is what drives me to want to get better at the game as a result.

[@Punkledunk]

+Jack Roycroft I've played with many different sensitivities and 1.33 works best for me.

[@n4thanfv]

*Words of wisdom.*

[@lox8031]

I was gold in LoL and i was ok with it. I never practiced too much because i was mostly casual, but once in a while i played ranked. I stop playing not because it was hard to climb or because i thought i was in elo hell, but because of the comunity toxicity and constant blame on each other and insulting. I completly stoped because i was tuning into a toxic player as well. Now just thinking about playing ranked gets me nauseated. Now im more a fan of competitive LCS/LCK more than a player. Fun to watch, a nightmare to play

[@itsmehehe6585]

If u can't handle your emotions while getting annoyed, provocated and insulted you are not exactly predestined to play soloq anyway.

[@lox8031]

+ItsMeHeHe Thats not the case i simply stop waisting my time on the league comunity and move to other games less toxic

[@itsmehehe6585]

Luís Domingues Okay. Well I dont know what elo youre in but I experienced Plat1 to Diamond2 this Season and there its far away from "all toxic", so cant really agree with you.

[@lox8031]

+ItsMeHeHe i belive in you but im tired of swimming threw idiots that insult you all the time, im not saying i play better than them, belive me sometimes the players that played better in the teams i ended up were the worst. Game stop being competitivly fun, and now i play casual ARAM for the sake of fun.

[@Yatsura2]

+Luís Domingues I dont know any multiplayer game that would be less toxic

[@LlibertarianGalt]

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” -Sun Tzu

[@ReelRai]

Funny, that "best swordman doesn't... blah blah blah" really fits with me when I play CS:GO :D. Whenever I play ranked solo (my rank is Global Elite), I feel like the enemy are nothing special, and usually do average. But if I play on my smurf against silver / gold nova / guardian, I feel like I get killed a lot more :D Mostly because I just don't expect the things they do.

[@Sir_Winn3r]

+Raphael It totally made me think about a friend of mine who is Global. He played with his smurf to play with me and got killed some times by guys doing stupid shit just because he totally didn't see it coming (as it was stupid). You're not alone. ;)

[@AltumNovo]

The swordsman analogy works for particular instances but not for a whole match. Part of being he master is quickly determining someone else's skill. There is also the phenomenon of sucking out. As in they make the wrong move but get lucky, after there is luck in all games.

[@IMadeChuckNorris]

I'm terrible at the game and I'm an LE. I know I'm above what my actual rank is. Somehow It'll never let me rank down no matter how bad I do. I watch my team mates and I'm like, "Holy shit, you're great."

[@FancySkunk]

On the subject of farming I will paraphrase a random player in a low ELO game I had: "You kids watch a stream and think your plat or something. You don't need to worry about CS until at least gold."

[@eaalders628]

+ManfredvonKarma7 he is partially right tho, I am a diamond player and sometimes I play with my friends who are like silver and whenever I play support I get incredibly fed, because low elo players tend to overextend in a ridiculous fashion.

[@FancySkunk]

Enrique Aalders I felt the need to look up the match just so I could show you how bad the numbers I'm talking about are. The enemy Ezreal had 138 CS in a 38 minute game, and the other team put a lot of the blame for the loss on him losing lane and not having any impact. I agree with the guy's point to an extent. Working on farm isn't always the thing worth most to focus on, but when you're *that* off the mark, you do need to put some work into it.

[@marLamaDeo]

+ManfredvonKarma7 138 cs in 40 mins is average below silver...

[@FancySkunk]

rikoLas That's insane... he was down 100 cs to the other adc.

[@Yatsura2]

+Enrique Aalders comments like yours are the problem. didnt you watched the video? with ignoring cs to focus enemy champions exclusively already makes you one of the so called _"low elo players who tend to overextent in ridiculous fashion"_.

[@Gronmin]

i think Gretzky is a good example of this since he was known to have an incredibly weak shot, and needed a big guy on his team protecting him because he was so small. But since he was so good at knowing where and when to shoot, knowing where the puck would go after hitting off a stick, a person or the boards, and all other aspects of the game he is considered one of if not the best hockey player. And he was able to do it all even though he had a shot that goalies said you could stop with your bare hands, which is a level almost every player passes before they start to get paid to play.

[@knotten33]

I was Diamond3 last season in League, and I must say that I agree with the master swordsman analogy, obviously factoring in that both these games are much more complex than just catching the other player off-guard. Up untill I peaked at Diamond3 in season4 I was pretty much the "master" in the analogy and consistently won lane and made better decisions and had a winrate in my most succsessfull roles of 80% or so, this being spread out ofcourse because I couldn't get my role all the time I had an 60-70% overall winrate. Till I got to Diamond3 ofcourse, and that was definetly a change of pace for me, I got wrecked in lane and out of lane so much more and much more consistently than previously. My best advice for people who can't grasp that they just simply belong in an elo that they are stuck in, play games below your elo and climb from that and you will know when you hit the elo that you belong in, it feels almost like running into a wall.

[@moodrow1234]

I'm actually here from a Reddit Heroes of the Storm link and what a great video. Really puts in perspective conscious personal improvement.

[@meekrab9027]

This and your "NA struggles" video about good practice habits are ****ing gold.

[@stefannickel2643]

Thooorin such a beast. Really love ur Videos. Ur pretty much one of a few Analysts who actually can explain what u stand for reasonable. Keep it up.

[@kjez]

I feel like this was much more a life lesson than just a rant about an aspect of competitive video games.

[@NumberOneBlitz]

the driving rule is about 2 seconds that is you look at something infront of you if it takes you shorter then 2 seconds to pass it while driving your following too closely

[@misterwonka8001]

It also works the other way around: I often catch myself calling cheats on people who hit "impossible" shots every so often and the notice that I hit that kind of shots myself on a fairly regular basis, it's just not as common as average frags.

[@Kindred135]

going from silver 1 to eagle over the course of about a year and a half now i do feel like there are points in the matchmaking journey where you simply fall into a slump and you simply just cant progress because your not fundementally making the effort to improve your personal performance, the biggest jump in skill i ever had was when a friend of mine jumped on what he thought was his smurf to play with me at silver 3 only to find out that it was an old eagle account and i was thrown completely out of the water into a different skill group, i got to see that what i perceved as matchmaking really wasnt anywhere close to the current meta at the time.

[@BkaybGaming]

The master swordsman analogy doesn't really apply to lol because how linear it is. There really isn't come abstract way to play it.

[@sandropopovic4021]

If you want to be in elo hell,all you have to do is to believe in elo hell. It's relative and depends on what you want to believe. It's like those kind of people who keep using the verb "can't". They just want excuses to feel better about themselves.

[@Roojercurryninja]

we can't work on the basics since we don't have a sandbox mode. guess the game

[@joshualagrave5862]

Tru :D

[@marLamaDeo]

+roojercurryninja You have ranked....

[@notmenotyou]

+roojercurryninja :DDDDDDDDDDDD

[@Yatsura2]

+roojercurryninja you are trying too hard...

[@Roojercurryninja]

Yatsura2 just like rio . . . oh wait nvm.

[@DerUnbekannte]

damn that "linear stack thing gamers do" is spot on. while I am convinced that my mmr is pretty much exactly what it should be, I very often find myself noticing one of those properties (or lack thereof) on my "stack" in a teammate or enemy and go "what a noob, how can they be that dense". then ofc I remember that we were matched together so I have to be the dense one in some aspect compared to him

[@henrythe7th1]

Finally someone with a voice in the community can say this without being shot at. I forgot to point out I'm not elo hell :)

[@kaigreen5641]

Made a new account, won 10 out of 13, got placed silver 2, used it as an excuse to stream getting out of silver. My other accounts were all consistently MG. Took a about a week or so to get out of silver, winning like 75% of games, then took another month to get out of nova winning 55-60% of games. If you don't belong at a rank, you won't stay there for long, whether you are ranked too high or too low. I actually learned a lot by playing my way back up through the ranks, I saw all these horrible things, got shocked by weird shit people do and now when I'm playing at my real rank, I am much more ready for weird shit, expect that people will be bad and make stupid plays and am ready to take advantage of them. After my journey through "ELO hell" I actually increased my skill, playing worse players allowed me to practice certain things over and over but in a real game situation instead of just with a friend or against bots. My aim is better, my game awareness is better, I actually ranked up to DMG from being constiently MG for months.... go figure.

[@ravesage]

More videos like this! I enjoy hearing your thoughts on the average player.

[@troliol]

What these people don't seem to understand is that, yeah, a worse player might catch a better player off guard now and then, but if you're actually the better player, you should be able to adapt very quickly after getting surprised once or twice.

[@ilyaustinov9938]

what an excellent video, I have watched several videos on this topic; none have been able to put this issue in this context. well done sir.

[@BlackJac021]

Fundamental Attribution Error is what you were describing during a segment in your video.

[@MrMalicious5]

This is pretty spot on except for one fact, once you get to around LEM/SMFC, there's tons of hackers. Stringing together wins becomes hard.

[@delatroy]

Regarding Scream, didn't he have the highest K:D in the entire ESL meaning that his style is vindicated?

[@DaGhost141]

I feel like I was in true elo hell, I got 36 frags in my DMG times fairly often, but then there was this 6-22 guy in the team who just can't play shit. Now I'm SMFC topfragging and GE uprank is not far away, but I'm sure that my DMG times were too long (pre VAC)

[@BodhiGeraci]

Seconded. However play enough and you'll get out. Happened to me too.

[@NoobyRussian]

As far as the bank reference is concerened. I personally find I play at my best after a break. I will come back and top frag. Then after a few games I start getting lazy and don't follow what I know.

[@TheFoxStalksHisPrey]

This is very important concept to grasp to climb the ladder in I would assume both games.I would be willing to bet that less than 1% of people plat or higher haven't grasped this idea.

[@mycroftwells3804]

The bit about the swordsman reminded me of this: 'To beat an expert at a game of chess by playing so appallingly that none of his clever tactics or strategies are of any use to him.'

[@tgamagedon]

In my opinion the problem is, that people do not make decisions, that they think are bad, even though they might be wrong. There for if they are not deliberately looking for mistakes in their game, they will think that they never made a bad decision.

[@geigoir]

To be fair, I always said I could hold my own in LEM and that people in MG were ignorant, didn't care or just plain stupid at times and that it was too hard for a player of my playstyle to climb and carry games to the level needed. Then I started to play with some friends in DMG and gradually got up to LEM, I solo Q'd a couple times and what do you know I was fine and in a lot of cases was topping the scores. I can sympathies with some people in 'elo hell' because if you play a more supportive role or maybe you play for consistency over a couple explosive rounds it will be hard to gain elo and yet you need those players. Without supportive players the aggressive explosive players get fucked by the consistent 1/2 kills per round without fail, and of course without the explosive player the consistent player can't make up the sheer amount of kills he is going to need to get the rounds. Basically what I'm saying is that for playmakers it is possible to be stuck in elo hell as the people you are trying to make plays for aren't able to capitalize on them like they should.

[@Fredagsblues]

Great video Thorin. Makes me think about my own playing and judgement of other players in MM and pugs. I have one nitty gritty comment about the traffic congestion analogy. It doesnt hold. Congestion is an economic problem which you explain by game theory. We all agree that traffic would move faster if everybody held their distance to the car in front. However, this create an incentive for the singel driver to use the pockets to overtake other drivers to cut his own travel time. This in turn slows down the traffic since the driver behind the cheating car have to create distance again. The now increased travel time increases the expected value for other drivers to cheat, and so on. I dont think people skip grinding fundamentals because people they play with in MM also skips it. I think people who repeat the same mistake and yell at other people for their mistakes are just lazy and/or ignorant. Grinding is boring.

[@sokolovrasputin4081]

one time i played with my unranked friend (i was silver 3 at the time) and we had 2 matches, the first one we went up against 3 mges and the second time we went up against 3 LEs and 2 dmgs

[@toffeeFairy]

The funny thing in lol is: if u are simply able to farm better then ur enemy, you can beat them really hard, just cause u have more items, or ur items earlier. Great vid, really good examples, in my opinion.

[@usayadams60]

So if i drop 41 kills and still lose its my fault.

[@usayadams60]

Damn leafy

[@narlonnus]

***** ecksdee

[@mrklopz8867]

Yes

[@MrKexarn]

Dude I droppes 65 kills and still lost! Was smurfing with my gf and her friends.

[@Unwanted.A7X]

@Annihilation happened to me yesterday! but i didn't mind losing, and even my teammates felt dissapointed in the chat due that i lose because of them

[@DejanMarolt]

Traffic happens because noone drives perfectly. It takes just one car to start slowing down, and soon it will just halt for no reason.

[@devindavidson8274]

Elo hell definitely exists. I find it a lot harder to play around the AK ranks than LE+, because I'm used to relying on my team making call outs and doing anything remotely sensible. When you're at a low elo, you have to completely change how you play just to compensate for how retarded everyone else is. The actual shooting ability of an MG1 and that of the typical SMFC or GE isn't very different, the real differences are decision making, map knowledge, etc. It's not like SC2 where you can literally hit master league JUST by having good mechanics. And before anyone accuses me of being low elo and making excuses, I was SMFC last time I played.

[@MerlinHDx]

you need to get a clearer cam if you're going to be having the cam box half screen.

[@bren4636]

My feelings about ELO is that CSGO doesn't tell you if you're ranking up soon or ranking down. LoL does tell you and lets you know which makes making your thoughts on your skill valid

[@benjamindover9324]

While I don't always agree with Thooorin, he more often than not has the uncanny ability to put into words which others can't. Good stuff mate.

[@GoBengals22]

This was a great topic and video Duncan. Now of we could have the rest of the entire community watch and understand the game would be ten times better. I see so many players think a kill is !more variable than a creep wave......

[@Choilicious]

vvortic be honored by dordins video of how he deserves challenjour

[@CxerRy96]

the problem comes from the fact that in a game like league how well you play the game in game wise (mechanics,champion mastery,knowing your limits) is less important than how you play outside the game (strategy,mind games,objective focus)...as soon as you start to understand HOW to close out and win a game of lol (it's what pros call "your win condition") you will start to gain elo even if you are mechanically worse than your enemy...just because you had 10+ kills doesn't mean you actually did anything with them (so many times i watch someone in low elo play and they get a kill in lane or in the jungle for basically free and then do nothing after it,or in bot lane they force the enemy to back and just freeze the lane instead of shoving it up their ass-just one of 100s of micro examples)...i learned all of this stuff when c9 first came into the picture...i was blown away by the fact that they wouldn't fall behind ever no matter how better their enemy seemed to play just because they controlled the map so well...so...if you wanna get better at lol you have to stop worrying on how well you or your teammates do and think about what your win conditions are and what role do you fill in them

[@itsmehehe6585]

Yeah. Don't worry if u and your team mates suck balls. Just search for the soloq win condition, which is pretty easy to execute with all that communication soloq has to offer, and it's even getting easier when your team is falling behind!!!

[@benkyung4894]

+CxerRy96 in pro/high level solo queue, sure. anything below, not at all. people with better mechanics and champion masteries can just get hella fed off the lane and transition it into a win.

[@Lunamana]

+CxerRy96 Well,if you have 10+ kills all you have to do in low elo is literally just push 24/7 and 1v5 the game,if enemy comes mid 3v1 if you can kill them,do that,if you can't do that then just roam to another lane and take a kill there+push their turret.That's what im doing on my smurf anyways :P

[@bilarion]

15:25 Another great example of this in CS:GO is when practicing headshots on moving bots all the time and thinking, "Static headshots?? That's fucking easy, I can hit moving targets like it's nothing. NO thanks.", and then on a MM game you play lurk and you fucking miss easy shots on stationary targets while everyone is laughing at you. Classic. Very insightful video.

[@HoratioAccel]

Thoorin I love you so much. Even my dad judges people like the late for work analogy. Its silly.

[@BlastBinary]

The greatest video about becoming a pro in under an hour, watched this 4 times. *bows*

[@bluebeetle34]

I just started playing again after 2 years. I used to be MG but now I'm playing with GN 1 & 2. I notice that my team often freezes before a site push and gets flanked then dies. It seems like I'm the only one who isn't afraid to peek/take site. Any tips for carry players who sit in a corner for the entire round?

[@TheReddaredevil223]

It's truly, truly incredible how many people in the comments ignored every single thing you said and continue to believe their own bullshit.

[@GiffyMcgee]

it's mostly satire, I think.

[@SophiaLingua]

I'm MG2 and I actually feel like I belong where I am. Some games I'll be playing really well and feel like I belong at DMG, I'll be top fragging and making the calls and whatnot, but I'm not consistent, I'll usually be middle of the field and feeling very frustrated with myself.

[@joonatinho]

that last point is the reason i like thorin. couldnt have phrased it any better

[@Sodacacik]

im bad at LoL but nothing makes me more annoyed that having a support thresh with relic shield trying to last hit minions, miss and fuck it up for both of us and then say im bad at last hitting

[@BLTspace]

Great talk Thorin. Lot of ppl need to watch this. It's shocking how many ppl out there think they're fucking Olofmeister because they can spray a few guys down with a p90.

[@Jacob-sb3su]

BLTspace i got tricked into that, went from silver 2 to GN3 and thought i was hot shit. Been in gn1 for the last couple pf weeks :(

[@phylocybe_]

this is very true but i do sometimes wonder how some people are the rank they are.

[@styxwickorfrost811]

In terms of the swordsmanship thing that Thorin quoted from Mark Twain, if I was a swordsman... I'd fear the man who is on my team that would decide to stab me or others who are on my team for what reason he has. Elo hell, to me, is when you have teammates who decide to be on your enemy... and the system won't even allow you to boot them off. They're the type to body-block you on purpose, do something legitimately detrimental to your team like Mei-walling or shooting you in the head, the likes. All you can do is report them and hope they don't ever get matched to be teammates with you again, because not everyone can really be in a full-stack, unless the system has a way for you to never be queue'd with them for a period of time. I've never had this problem in CS:GO, and thank goodness I haven't. I don't mind being in silver, partly because I miss 1.6's movements, but mostly because maybe CS:GO isn't the game for me to be competitive on. On other games, strangely enough I do have those problems like in DotA2 (where no matter how well I play it doesn't matter when you have an Earthshaker, Tiny, etc... who felt like fucking with you is a thing), League of Legends (feeds on purpose or does their best to body block you), Paladins (pricks who get mad because they didn't get their desired picks), Overwatch (dickheads who prefer to play Mei and put you and your team in really bad situations, Torbs who effectively intentionally feed, etc...), and so on. If me and my team loses, I look at what I could've done that could've helped us win than what others could've done. Maybe I should've made that switch, maybe I should've built this item, maybe I should've gone balls deep. The only time I blame a teammate is when they decide to stab you in the back because they felt like it, didn't get the role they want, wasn't given that AWP that he's good with, and/or whatever. Like... do that in casual, for fucksakes.

[@nocturnalrythm9141]

Can you provide a link to skip the start please?

[@NumberOneBlitz]

i consider my self a pretty good thresh/blitz as ive peaked at master but its funny at low elo's because sometimes you miss skillshots because you anticipate the opponent dodging you throw your skillshot a certain direction and they just stand still

[@MrRMbeatz]

The past three months my KDA hasn't fallen below 3.5 i agree i make mistakes sometimes, but i get pissed off when i go 15/1 and take 3 towers by myself and still lose because my 0/9 adc wants to 1v3...

[@ringinreturn1]

this is true majority of the time, however in heroes of the storm, which is what i play, i have a very low mmr in hl. have many friends from sc2 that have much higher mmr and are ranked much higher. the issue is, when playing in custom (in-house) games, I perform well on their level, usually ending the game with top hero damage, most kills, least deaths, most exp. It is usually not the case, i understand how many people argue this point, but in the 20 placement hero league games i played I won 16 of them and got ranked at 50, lowest rank. My buddy won 8 of his 20 and was placed at rank 17. Heroes mmr does not go off of single performance, only wins/losses and what ur teams mmr is vs the other teams mmr, so this made no sense at all. There have been many cases like this that are being spoken about in Hots forums. Never played League of legends so i'm not sure about that.

[@ringinreturn1]

+ringinreturn1 i meant to say in those custom games i play with those people who have much higher mmr's.

[@shedijon]

when I go off and top frag, my team loses. when I play bad and bottom frag, my team wins. pls explain ty

[@faismasterx]

17:14 If you remove the CS from the video, this is quite a wise example that can apply to many areas of life and improvement on personal perspective. Thoorin, you should be a life coach.

[@SeriouslyMikey]

I'm Global and I cant rank up. I'm in the worst Elo Hell. Help me, please!

[@PapaJenkoooooo]

The end of the video made me feel kinda good, started at like silver 3-4(one of the two) and now I'm LE. #Road2BestPlayerUniverse

[@TheDarkLegacy]

Thanks for this, I was stuck at Eagle for the longest time, I understand why now.

[@BodhiGeraci]

A quote I made up myself, I always use when someone flames their teammates "acknowledge your own mistakes before blaming others" in other words, never blame someone else for losing, it is all your fault, always. Obviously only applies mm and not proper scrims / cups / ladders / lans.. Then it's everyone's fault you lost but yeah.

[@joelevans3860]

Elo Hell did exist in League of Legends, but not anymore (except possibly Bronze V based on hidden MMR). Yes, it was caused by the user, but once the player got better, they were still stuck for prolonged periods of time in a lower division. Let me give my example: Like an idiot, I played ranked the moment I hit level 30. I would try new champions out in ranked instead of just playing the 1-2 champs that I used the entire time I was levelling up/playing placements. This was in Season 3, and I thought "Hey, I got placed in Silver 5, so I can't drop to Bronze! There's no drawback to trying new champs in ranked." Yes, that was a shitty attitude from a team perspective, but it is also a common attitude among new players. The problem with that is the fact that I COULDN'T go to Bronze. My hidden MMR dropped down to Bronze 3-4 levels, and I stayed in Silver. By the time I started getting better and winning well over 50% of my matches, I was getting 2-4 points for a win, and losing 20+ on a loss. It took half a year to get to the point where I was getting even amounts for winning and losing. I ended the season in Silver 4, though I quickly got Gold once the next season rolled around. It did exist, and I knew it was my own fault that I was there, but it existed. Now that players can drop between tier's in ranked, it's not really a thing. Getting placed from Gold to Bronze 1 in placements after a 4-6 record was some bullshit though.

[@TheHolyNade]

I totally get your point (I'm MG2), but when I play with my Legendary Eagle friends, I am top or second on the score board most of the time, and it feels like I belong there. In my eyes these people are playing "normal". However, when I play solo on mg2, I often find my teamates going for strategies or risks no "normal" or "good" player would go for. Also obviously, the languages (no real communication with not english speaking players) is playing a role in this. I can't rank up, no matter how good I perform in these games, and my LE friends only play rarely with me, since losing a mixed-elo match could get them a downrank. (Everyone knows you're getting punished for playing mixed: for example, one match with one of my LE firends our team was DMG/MGE while our enemies were mostly LE, except of one DMG; I understand why they won't play/have fun in mixed games.) The point is: I don't get upranked, despite my good performance in almost every game I play above my rank, but playing on my rank with mostly "not good" players (I'm sure there are exceptions, but I have to see them, yet) I mostly lose to bad (team-)plays. I know I will probably get much hate for this, but this IS how I and my LE friends see it.

[@TheHolyNade]

+TheHolyNade also sorry for my bad english

[@razorkee7600]

I'm a fairly new csgo player, my first rank: Gold Nova master. I'm confident and very certain that I will continue to rank up for a while. I still notice quite a lot of mistakes I make and I continue to grow better. I currently have 14 wins, can't wait for the next games! =)

[@adr0it]

people will say i am a stereotypical nova player, but i am literally surrounded by teammates who dont know any smokes, dont understand basic economy, or dont understand how many awps we should have on our team. Meanwhile I know advanced smokes for the most popular maps, and I understand what to buy and when. This is why i dont play matchmaking.

[@AdamHamdan1]

Old gems

[@RaimaNd]

I could post this video at least 50 times a day in the CSGO forum.

[@TheIcobx]

Love your videos. My problem is I always forget about being fair towards myself. I always slide back to that elo hell people that claim they are better etc... :/

[@user-jc3vy6tc1n]

This is why I prefer, 1v1 games, it solely relies on YOUR skill.

[@jonathanpeterson6371]

The traffic Thing is known as The Ripple effect. Stephen Fry taught me that

[@AzuraSkyy]

Thank you for this video Thorin. There is a lot I can improve.

[@RobWirdWachsen]

who is that patrick guy at the end?

[@smellymewi]

I tend to criticise on how I play especially when I missed my shots.

[@johnpaulgilbert3898]

The funny part is the better i got the more I thought less and less about others mistakes and improved on mine. The mentality changes when you go from bronze to diamond

[@realitytv3177]

thooorin I watch your videos and I gotta be honest they change my life put stuff in perspective for me keep up the good wise words I got a lot of catching up to do

[@strommiz9207]

Plz do: Who is Cyx (CS)

[@benmustermann2045]

A counter point to his argumentation would be that I as a legit supreme player (former) when i play with my friends who are mge I can have very good games (25-40k under 10-20d) and yet lose and here is what is interesting loose consistently games due to bad performance of my teammates - There for i understand most some people saying that there getting momentarily held down in ranks by their teammates even though on long terms there should be an development towards the higher ranks

[@benmustermann2045]

+Ben Mustermann i meant former ge player and not former supreme player

[@bordeaux1337]

While I agree with what he is saying, people who stack together do have a big ranking advantage over people who solo queue, and will probably be higher rank, although they individually might be just as good. Why is this? They know eachother, they communicate well, they might even have practiced advantaged strats that is not possible when solo queuen.

[@yunh9055]

Who's that on the shoulder of your shirt