Thorns Build - The Reflect King | Will Thorns Be Able To Clear Maps? | Kalltorak Path of Exile 2

[@grassnogr423]

I really want to see this work! You are probably the only one doing this but I will still cheer you on.

[@iulianburlacu]

Imagine doing sanctum trials with this build.

[@Dirdle]

You can maybe do okay by getting seriously good at using Raise Shield. But the ultimatum trials are probably a better bet. Probably.

[@solomani-42]

Even normal warriors have problems without over leveling.

[@iulianburlacu]

@@solomani-42 you do realize you cant be hit to many times in Sanctum trial... right?

[@cyruslupercal9493]

​@@iulianburlacu You can't be damaged too much to be precise. Blocking nullifies the damage.

[@InfoRanker]

I thought the same but was talking with a guy playing thorns, he has 87% block and said it's a breeze.

[@honordevs]

My friends and I did a bit of theorycrafting build and I believe we found that Thorns is probably a Hit (unlike POE1, where it's a reflect that can't be scaled), mostly because of the description on "Hit Damage" which defines it as "Any damage that is not Damage Over Time is Hit Damage". That said, it isn't an Attack/Spell, so it can't be scaled there (though it might be an Attack? I haven't tested it). This opened up going Anvil's Weight to break armor and Imploding Impacts, then Turtle Charm, like you were saying. After that, there are a few interesting mechanics: - Wylund's Stake + Thorns Fire Conversion and scaling - Blood Thorn Quarterstaff (bleed on thorn hit) - Critical or Ailment scaling for Bleed - Magma Barrier (not thorns, but more defense) - Attrition (more damage for Thorn based on time) - Arctic Armour (with Ele Focus so you don't freeze/chill and slow your own damage down), again not thorns but extra on hit damage - Barrier Invocation, again not Thorns, but it's on-hit damage-ish I think we had more, but this is all I can think about off the top of my head. Hopefully it helps.

[@majishan4604]

You can use shieldwall with fortress. Then break them with resonating shield to generate scavenged plating

[@cyruslupercal9493]

They generate plating? If so I know what I'm playing 😅

[@Armadan7]

Not any more I believe

[@GamerMusyk]

I'm also playing thorns and your video is helping me getting some mistakes right, can't wait for the second part !!

[@matricus]

Comparing your guide-type videos to other creators, yours are relaxing.

[@ryanchristian9388]

There's a chest called Bramblejack (no lvl requirement) 250% of melee physical damage taken reflected to attacker. May have missed because no mention of thorns, may work with this build. 😮

[@yudka3285]

You don't want hits to bypass block and armor in late game.

[@francisstranieri2067]

Holy crap, finally thorns build. Keep it up buddy, I'll try thorns on my next build. Maybe bleed and/or life drain can help improving damage. Shields up! Titan seems a natural choice for ascending as the 50% bonus on all passives.

[@griffinman37]

I am also trying to make a throns build, one thing to note is that thorns are physical damage and can apply other things with physical damage. Like Bleed, throns can apply bleed stacks and add a dot damage on top of the thorns damage. More physical the better.

[@arcadebit1551]

I am wondering if the ACT 2 Boss the wind actually would work with thorns. That being said, Thorns should be physical damage and you might be able to scale it with Phys damage

[@sisyphus3820]

I'm a thorns enjoyer too. I'm tempted to transition once I hit maps and I've had chance to theory craft more. But I'll prob brick my build so it's likely best to stick with plan A, HotG/ignite. You're a brave soul trying thorns through the campaign!

[@moocowpong1]

Arctic armour is a thorns-like effect which you can scale some with support gems. You might want to use elemental focus with it so it *doesn’t* freeze or chill (and does more damage)

[@Caldaron]

fuck yeah. i was wondering when a build like that would come up. thanks man

[@fatstickman19]

Thorns to the MOON🚀🚀

[@ArcDragoon]

If you're blocking and strength stacking. There are two ways to increase global damage to affect thorns. "Offensive Stance" (1% increased damage per 1% block). "Brute Strength" (1% increased damage per 15 strength).

[@de_sherwin]

I remember seeing somebody say they used thorns to spread ignites all over, could be worth looking into.

[@freebasher]

That's a good way to make me feel good about my build.

[@charlesgoggans8046]

Something you can do to make scavenge plating work on bosses; use seismic cry with pin (that makes it where it won't go on cool down) and also exploit weakness. This should let you use seismic cry after you break the boss's armor, to consume it, then you can break the armor again, gaining stacks of scavenge plating even against bosses.

[@KallTorak]

I saw on a reddit thread just now that someone is using Shield wall to build stacks. Sounds interesting

[@charlesgoggans8046]

@KallTorak yeah didn't think of shield wall, that's probably easier

[@IXINineIXI]

I love thorns builds too. I really hope they support it

[@RenegadeofStyx78]

I have a feeling ether Templar or Druid will have a Thorn Ascendency. probably Templar, but still sounds like GGG is going in on thorns.

[@whateverppl1229]

literally was looking into thorns char an hour ago and then this video was recommended to me

[@hvac1649]

I can tell you it works. I played thorns all the way to endgame. It SLOW AS HELL!!!! But once you get endgame its pretty op. I used the warbringer so i can always block without holding shield. I also prioritized jewel slots to give me increase thorns (jewels can give you 20% more thorns) and I added life regeneration rate with it as well. It works really well. I was able to get my thorns up to 3k+. YOU MUST ALWAYS use the thorns helmet and then u can mindlessly map. I was able to get up to t10+ maps thorns only

[@KallTorak]

That's awesome! I just hit maps but I'm struggling right now. Any tips?

[@beeerlord]

whats your gear for now? isnt hulking better for thorns nodes?

[@Mo-dn6bd]

Build or it didnt happen!

[@GamerMusyk]

I'd love to the build in detail

[@andrzejkudas2788]

Can you show us your passive points tree?

[@mishli7670]

I honestly think this is a cool idea .. And I may have just spent like an hour doing research. Here's what I found: 1. As far as I know. POE2 enemies FUNCTIONALLY do not have spells. Everything is an attack or projectile (or an unlockable boss 'slam) 2. In poe1. There was no way to really modify thorns damage. But if it's able to crit. Then it also might be affected by increases to physical damage modifiers (that aren't on a weapon) 3. There are no level restrictions on support gems. You've you got a high level character. Don't be afraid to open some t3 supports and try them out 4. I think your trick with resonating shield is really cool 5. I know it's not quite thorns. But shield wall deals damage when enemies break it. So it could be a supplemental source of damage that still fits the theme 6 I don't think you can support thorns at all. But you could possibly scale the physical damage on shield wall and give it chance to bleed so you can take advantage of the aggravated (+100% damage) effect. And you could use bloodlust support on resonating shield 7. Since your objective is not to attack much. Consider trying to equip a scepter that gives the 'malice's skill. Not only will you get extra spirit for useful reservations, but malice will give all your skills increased crit chance. 8 if you're trying to get a bunch of armour. Consider taking the 'iron reflexes' keystone. Hybrid gear (str/dex or armor/evasion in this case) can usually reach higher stat totals than a purely armor piece. This should also ensure you have no chance to exact l evade 9. Try to look for other methods to increase the damage enemies take, such as shocked ground or intimidate 10. Can't confirm, but almost guarantee 'stone skin' will not affect the damage scaling off your body armor specifically (though I REALLY think it should) 11. The 'break armor below zero' effect should let you do increased damage 12. The bulwark keystone might be good for helping you tank big hits you don't think you can block. And means you are getting hit more> more thorns 13. I know it would be difficult getting through act 2. But because you are building very tanky. Ultimatum might be a much easier way to ascend (and the chimera boss has a breath attack) 14. Because of the higher mob density and no time limit. Ritual might be a good thing to farm 15. Defiance banner can get you more defense 16. I know the objective is to kill things with thorns. But consider having something like a minion or totem. Not for damage, but the ability to put utility support gems on to debuff/apply effects to enemies or culling strike 17. Consider looking into support gems for block, such as magma barrier 18. Arctic armour is another to cause damage when hit 19. Try the 'attrition' spirit gem. The longer the fight, the more damage you do I'm sorry this went on so long. But I hope some of it helped!

[@KallTorak]

Very Helpful! Thank you so much. So much info to take in for POE, its so hard as a new player haha.

[@mishli7670]

@@KallTorak it's a very big game! Just take it one step at a time. If you try to figure out everything at once. It will drive you crazy >

[@TheModdedwarfare3]

I agree with pretty much everything here. If thorns can crit then it probably gets bonuses from generic crit bonus and chance and physical or genric damage nodes as well. Also with iron reflexes you will still probably want an armor with maximum armor on it for the body armour adds thorns damage bonus. Brass dome has a really big bumber but it might be beaten by a rare, idk.

[@IncredibleInedible]

@@KallTorak I also did some researching and testing, the typeless increased physical damage tree nodes like Cruel Methods will scale phys thorns. On paper the Witchhunter's culling and decimating strike ascendancy nodes will be applied by thorns damage too. If you can find the stats for it Chober Chaber's minion damage trait should also scale thorns through minion damage nodes. Some maybe helpful uniques; Jarngreipr Ringmail Gauntlets (Str Stacking), Deathblow Doubled Gauntlets (Culling Strike), Aerisvane's Wings Burnished Gauntlets (Decimating Strike), Rondel of Fragility Lunar Amulet (30-50% dmg).

[@mishli7670]

@@IncredibleInedible iirc chober chaber is 2handed? The keystone to 1h is viable But he really wants to use a shield

[@manituan4956]

I'll wait until an ascendancy supports this playstyle.

[@Mhvn1987]

you would have to be able to ascend first :P

[@Waelly17]

OMG HAHAHAHA rip all ur honour points

[@mishli7670]

@@Waelly17 there is another way to ascend. In act 3

[@TheNuclearGamerr]

The helm lets it apply to all hits so scaling block will grant more defensive layers and if I’m not mistaken blocked hits should now also trigger thorns

[@TheYashakami]

Warbringer is the way. Being able to block all hits with your shield and then being able to apply thorns to all hits is the best combo possible. Not to mention 10% of all damage breaking armor helps with scavenged plating.

[@whattaninja3751]

I think the extra scaling from Hulking Form is too good to pass up, though.

[@Marlax-101]

@@whattaninja3751 i think it matter if you want to be active or passive with thorns. you dont have to actually sit and block to proc the thorns just get hit so if your dishing out damage its just more damage on top. if your sitting and blocking probably should have some defensive block spells and dot effects.

[@semi6544]

I think you should go Warbringer because armor break can be worked into the build smoothly. There is a group of nodes on the map if you use the keyword surround that look like they would benefit armour, close damage, and maybe thorns.

[@drillspin1]

Thorns damage can actually scale with generic and type specific damage increases, biggest sources i've found are the 1% increased dmg per 1% chance to block notable between the warrior and merc starting points. I haven't been doing pure thorns yet but I've been able to make it to the end of act 3 and get 4 ascendancy points and while i've been progressing fairly fine i'm at the point that even the occasional hit starts chunking more health than i'd like it to, though it could probably just be fixed with more armour. Main thing i want tho is to hit 52 so i can test if Choir of storms works with crit thorns and have enemies just trigger lightning bolt on themselves constantly.

[@InvertID]

This is good to know!

[@godm0d]

@@InvertID physical to chaos would also make thorns scale with chaos damage too

[@hoock3r]

can i turn thorns to pure fire with avatar of fire? so i can scale with lots of fire damage nodes? does attack nodes improve thorns damage? does physical nodes improve thorns damage? does added physical damage from gear also adds to thorns damage?

[@drillspin1]

@@hoock3r yes but have to find another 25% phys to fire otherwise it 25% less damage No, only thorns, type specific, and general dmg increases apply, it's neither attack or spell Phys dmg works as long as it's not spell/attack specific Not that i've seen no

[@mishli7670]

@@drillspin1 important note that armor only mitigates physical damage Every time you go up an act. You lose 10% all elemental res. So you could be getting chunked by elemental hits. Try looking for some gear with higher resistances

[@barrywise7185]

Been thinking of trying this myself for the meme. It’s nice that blocking still count as a hit for thorn purposes.

[@timknight4816]

Subscribed, hope this works in the future, I really want to make a hardcore throrns char

[@leboucanier8719]

What about a similar build, with the Cloak of Flame ? It gives 25 to 35 fire thorn dammage. Do you know if these thorn dammage gets increased by thorn dammage in passive tree ?

[@fernandobadillo2126]

I will try this build since I dropped the crown that makes every hit proc thorns, hope it gets more support in the future.

[@elroyb3766]

Most things saying 2% of armour or es or evasion only count for the base stats on your equipment Like convert all es to mana only takes base es from equipment

[@hoock3r]

After trying so many things, the best way im playing thorns is with physical spells to suport damage, and bleeding passives on tree help both very nice

[@kurogiri8397]

For defence Titan, for damage Warbringer. Also you can break armour on shieldwall or icewalls, this can get you Scavenged Plating for full singletarget uptime.

[@jontun4511]

Have you thought about using bramblejack unique chest - damage returned is 250% of hit....so scales with mob hits

[@MinNJW2111]

ran into someone doing this as the witch like 6 days ago been checking in with them here and there and they said the same thing as you for their love for thorns kinda clicked you vod to see if you where them. But yeah they are doing a blood witch because it procs her Ascendancy nodes stuff. From the blood mage

[@owafamosa7615]

hey i wonder if you know about firethorn damage from cloak of flame making it possible to ignite and trigger herold or other spirit gems for explosions and damage

[@ShneekeyTheLost]

Have you considered pairing thorns with shouts? Phox did a build that harkened back to the D2 ShoutBarb builds. One of the main drivers of shout DPS was Corrupted Blood to stack bleeds, which might have interesting synergies with the boots that aggravate bleeds as well as double thorns. Shouting at enemies to hit you, then punishing them for it sounds very on-brand for this sort of build.

[@FloppyKitten14]

corrupted blood doesn't count as a bleed afaik

[@TheKasmanchannel]

I’ve actually been following along as well after seeing the reddit post (immediate reroll) for this as I also love thorns builds. Some things I found out whilst trying to get this to work. Bramblepatch has a 250% damage reflect on taking a physical hit. Which actually melted the three graveyard bosses in act 1 especially the third boss there as the big slam hit so long as you can survive took huge chunks off his health. Problem is that it’s on melee hit. If you block you take 0 damage, and 250% if 0 is still 0. So I had to resort to just eating hits full force to reflect damage. One thing we COULD do to scale our damage in the future is to get the glancing blows keystone so that we take 50% of the damage we block but double our block chance which will trigger it only on melee physical hits. I don’t believe it’s worth but that scaling… To be honest if the item worked together with crown I think it would be super viable. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t count ranged hits on the chest piece as the text is too specific. Also, check out the rage nodes near the thorns nodes as we have increased armor, stun threshold on max rage and gain rage on hit which would be really beneficial for extended fights. I suspect we may have to wait until ultimatum for ascendancies as I’m also at the sanctum trial. My guess is as good as yours for this one what to get but I’m thinking block chance, armor, life regen, rage nodes and bleed to boost the uptime in our bleeding boots. Also looking to pop down to pick up iron reflexes to get more armour for the built in 6-7% evasion we apparently get out of the box and to make the beetle bite shoes give us defensives we can work with as it has evasion built into it. Not sure how worth that is but it’s free real estate and we need any bonuses we can get. Hopefully some of this stuff helps for you!

[@mishli7670]

@@TheKasmanchannel unfortunately. With POE you must be very specific with wording. Bramble patch has 'reflect' which is not thorns, so it would not be affected by any of the modifiers to thorns. (In poe1. There was no way to modify it's damage almost at all) Same thing with the rage nodes. 99% sure thorns is not an attack or spell. So rage 'increased attack damage' would not affect the thorns damage Bramble is still potentially useful in some cases, but you would need a ton of HP/energy shield just to try and tank some hits. It is possible. But I don't think it would be better than getting a high armor body for that thorns scaling, because thorns can work off any hit. Although the idea of eating a big slam and watching the boss chunk himself does sound very satisfying If you do want to try and work with the bramble instead of thorns. I recommend going HP/es gear. And picking up some life recoup nodes to heal back on damage taken. I'm not sure if it's in the game yet, but there will be a keystone 'mind over matter' that will let you take adamage from mana before anything else I don't know the bottom half of the tree very well, but on the witch side, there are some nice nodes that let you recoup damage taken as mana and energy shield too. You need to just stack enough total HP/es/mana to be able to eat any one big hit. (Roughly 2.5k total got me through campaign) But because the damage scales off the damage you take.. you almost want the lowest possible armor and resistance just to take more damage. And that is a very fine line to walk

[@TheKasmanchannel]

Yeah it’s so weird that we have to be so pedantic about things. I have to make a quick correction because for some reason I thought there was innate evasion but it’s entirely on gear. Bramblepatch fell off quickly, and I’m currently trying to push to act 3 so we can get ultimatum trials going. Ascendancy 1 would one be possible if almost all attacks from the boss at the end of sanctum weren’t slams which you cant mitigate. You would also have to avoid ritual and possibly hourglass rooms. There are two rage notable nodes that bolster armour and stun threshold per rage respectively, that would be the only reason to have rage. And the most you can do for damage is really get jewels at this point after obtaining the nodes on the passive tree, so making a beeline for jewel sockets would be okay but won’t last long for damage. I’m still going to see what else scales, despite this being a giant puzzle and there are roadblocks everywhere, I’m still happy to research and see what we can do because right now “number too small” is very evident.

[@TheArmouryOfficial]

@@mishli7670 I could be mistaken but Bramble didnt reflect damage while i had an energy shield up.

[@travisproo87]

I wonder if feedback can be given to the devs on the passives/skills that boost armor but not thorns damage

[@default94321]

I’m about done with act 1 cruel on my thorns build. I chose warbringer but I think it is a mistake. The overall thorns damage buff from the other is probably much better. But being able to break armor past 0 might be useful for bosses with the spirit gem that allows you to stack more thorns damage on armor breaks and jade for easier tankyness. Do you know if increased physical damage in the tree increases thorns? I also have no clue how crit works with it.

[@90benj]

Nice to see someone else thinking the same thing. I have theory crafted a thorns build yesterday with a buddy. First, I thought you could scale thorns well with on hit effects, since thorns seem to be able to crit, so I thought it must count as a hit. But sadly, this isn't how it works. I will follow this for sure, it seems like incredible fun.

[@frustratedsquirrel]

so for bleeding on thorns potentially, there's node clusters down in the mercenary side of the tree which provide you with chance-to-bleed on crit or hit. Thorns can crit, so that may be one way to have bleeding thorns...can't imagine it'd proc at a high rate though. Right now I'm actually playing a sort-of-tanky gas grenade mercenary running corrosion on the gas grenade to strip armor, so I can have scavenged plating going off for defense. I also convert all my evasion into armor, allowing me to get big fat numbers off of armor + evade gear, and ensure I can't avoid hits so that thorns go off more often. It's not a devoted thorns build by any means but it does feel a little synergistic. Going gemling legionnaire could also potentially get you bigger thorns because you can increase the level and quality of skill gems, including scavenged plating. Also, you can break armor on ice walls and shield wall skill gem. This should give you the ability to generate stacks of scavanged plating whenever you want...if it works.

[@veeezis]

Devs said: Thorns. Then Devs also said: Sanctum.

[@Dezerango]

I've actually been thinking about thorns too! One thing you may not know being newer to PoE is the Briarpatch Laced boots are way stronger than they appear. +15% is to the base crit chance, so with the passive that boosts your base crit to 20%! To compare, the Blood Witch has to use 6 Ascendancy Points to get her spell base crit chance to 15%. This gives you a good avenue to use crit chance/damage to scale thorns. Also I don't know if you'd consider this 'thorns' but with a high base crit like that cast on crit can allow you to create more damage from being hit. If you go titan with the 50% small passive bonus, just the critical chance next to the thorns critical damage would put you at 39% crit chance without a single piece of gear. Of course that doesnt help with the leveling itself before cruel or so but it definitely should be on your radar when you're choosing how to ascend in act 2!

[@KallTorak]

Thanks for the explanation! Yeah, there is so much math in this game I dont understand. Pretty awesome, I'm currently wearing them!

[@mishli7670]

@@Dezerango I can't remember which ascendency. But one gives very high base block chance. Combo that with the svalin shield to trigger spells when you block!

[@ShamelessDuck]

are you sure it makes the base crit chance 15%? it says "15% to thorns critical hit chance", and i'm not sure how to interpret it, but i don't want to jump to conclusions.

[@warcheddar4163]

@@ShamelessDuck it says "+15% to thorns critical hit chance". in poe if something says "+#% crit chance" that base crit, so 5% crit +15% would be 20% crit. This is opposed to the much more common "#% increased critical hit chance", where 5% crit chance and 200% increased crit chance would be 15% total. Key thing to look out for is the "+".

[@Qrispii]

thorns in this game is more of a parry build with molten shield ... tapping block to explode the screen and not draining block and the resonate shield count as a block so you can use magma with it

[@desmondtheotter7613]

Wouldn't the beetlebite velour shoes unique count as boots for throns dmg, it increases throns dmg by 100% i feel thats worth or is the briarpatch laced boots unique for +15% throns critical hit chance better?

[@mpbluewolf]

You also have a monk staff "Blood thorn" for L1 that has thorns damage on it for lvling.

[@bausHuck]

Have you checked if physical damage applies to thorns? In the damage sheet it says physical thorns damage. Thorns might also have the melee tag as it is default to trigger off melee only. I so badly want to play a thorns build too. But do not have time to play a character that won't be able to get past ascendancies.

[@andrzejkudas2788]

I see that few items have both bleeding and thors so maybe there is a synergy there?

[@virtuosoflux]

Could you maybe do Crit bleed thorns Bloodwitch? Since you aren't casting many spells, you should always have 200% of your life, yes?

[@tyty8484]

Do global crit chance/multi mods affect thorns?

[@babyitsnatural]

Infernalist can scale thorns with crit damage. You need the boots that give throns 15% crit. You can also scale thorns with minion damge using Chober Chaber + Giant's Blood so you can use a shield - the other method is with Ming's Heart.. I tried this buildwith Ming's Heart. You need to use Mana pool in order to tank. So you can't level with it. You have to get enough passives first to build the three. Sorry tothat's my findings

[@wolfcam4462]

You could try going with ailments, since ignite and bleed chance seem to scale globally unlike in poe1; The bloodmage point for making your ele dmg scale bleed + avatar of fire keystone can give you a lot of scaling options, you'd loose 25% dmg overall but more potential than just 2-3 clusters on the tree. Even without avatar of fire, you could get a statstick weapon with 'dmg gained as' to boost your bleed potential. You could also try blasphemy vulnerability to ignore enemy armor. Hope some of this helped!

[@TheArmouryOfficial]

You'd need to get your second set of ascendancy points to even flirt with the idea of using blood mage and as it stands its hard to even get your first one with purely thorns.

[@jeremyarnold677]

Can we confirm thorns damage scales with physical damage? If not, maybe bleed damage would help scale it? Just spitballing because I wanted to try a thorns build

[@vitaliiruzhentsov9220]

I tried it at the start, but it is totally unplayable. Switched to armour break at Act 2. But I wish to return back sometime, and check if it will work together with Anvil's Weight

[@accessdenied4551]

check out olrovasara hammer. any hit adds extra lightning, does thorns count as a hit?

[@sashagryg1958]

is thorn damage count as hit? what i mean does hit effects trigger by thorn damage such as heal ? health per enemy hit

[@ShamelessDuck]

i presume you'll need to have two weapon sets, one for thorns and another for the Big Bonk Stick to be able to do some damage on single target and/or for situations like sanctum trial

[@TheArmouryOfficial]

I want a pure pacifist D:

[@Gorrash]

This might be an Adorned setup with corrupted jewels with torns damage, for ultimate torns damage

[@Raffinari]

Is edryn's better than bramblejack?

[@displaytype9628]

this is interesting have you considered using magma barrier ? into the build the block skill one ?

[@frankcoley1537]

Yep I'm going in.

[@andreasb-j4128]

In fairly sure the crit boots are Way better than the increased damage boots since you Can stack increased thorns damage on jewels. Jewels sound really good for this, increased crit chance, increased crit damage and increased thorns damage are all pretty sick

[@chrisunderhill8853]

dont forget the flat + to phy dmg nodes there is a few in the warrior tree one near the flail tree. i am doing this build too and also working on making it work although i currently was trying to be more of a battle mage using a bone wand and shield also using the bone skills like unearth and the ring one. since they also scale on phy dmg. with the helm it does help. although i think you will have to mandatory go war bringer for the passive that allows you to block with out raising the shield for this will allow you to use other skills while still blocking.

[@mishli7670]

@@chrisunderhill8853 important note that, by default, you do get passive chance to block. That's the % listed on the shield. Investing in more block chance can definitely help you survive longer. The war bringer gives you the chance to block otherwise unlockable attacks, but only if you're not raising your shield (meaning it's a gamble if you will successfully block)

[@levitastic]

that chaos build looked interesting, got a link?

[@lewismcbride8465]

If Life stacking is the goal then Gemlings Ascendancy doubling the inherent bonus of Attribute nodes would be good since Titans 50% effects the amount of STR you stack so two nodes giving +10STR now give +15 STR which is only +20HP compared to Gemling which doubles the Inherent bonus so +5STR is +20HP so +15STR is 60HP. On a larger scale 100 STR nodes on titan incl +50% is 150STR so 1500HP Gemling 100 STR nodes is 100 STR but double HP per node is 2000HP

[@whattaninja3751]

Hulking Form does NOT affect attributes.

[@lewismcbride8465]

@ it effects the small passives, the small passives are the attribute nodes

[@Raffinari]

If jewels have thorns mods you may want to try an adorned set-up in mid-late endgame

[@KallTorak]

Yeah I'm currently saving up for the adorned right now

[@randomnonsense61]

I think Diablo 3 had a weapon that turned your thorns damage into an on-hit effect. If PoE 2 had a similar kind of item, something to weaponize thorns outside of only being attacked, that might solve the build.

[@686Nadeau]

Some passive skill use life instead of mana, when life loss occurs this way would it proc the "all hits" and activate thorns?

[@masonhales]

Thorns dealing critical hits might be able to trigger Cast on Crit..?

[@KallTorak]

I haven't tested that yet, but that's a cool idea!

[@semi6544]

I think you may need to pair throns with close range damage. I think it should fall under that. I'm guessing it too as something I was experimenting with. I didn't have the patience though, especially without the unique you got.

[@hoock3r]

Avatar of fire thorns build? can it work? can it ignite? could scale magma shield aswell on fire % damage nodes

[@mishli7670]

@@hoock3r if it can crit. It should be able to ignite. But I think the base damage is so low it's not worth the investment. Your chance to ignite scales with how much fire damage you're doing. Even if you can ignite. Doing 100-200 damage would be a very low chance of ignite. That being said. There are probably a lot more sources of 'increased fire damage ' than 'increased generic physical' so it might be a better way to scale damage. But he would lose the armor shred

[@hoock3r]

@@mishli7670 Thx for reply. i changed plans, going full crit chance and damage on thorns, many nodes with it can get 30% base crit chance: 15% unique boots, 5% tree, 10% malice scepter

[@TheArmouryOfficial]

@@hoock3r Sunder the Flesh on Blood Mage specifically saying spells really killed the idea for a crit stack for thorns. Getting 15% chance to inflict Bleed on Crits and Gain 10% of Damage as Extra bleed really gave me hope but so much of the other nodes in Blood mage specify spells.

[@alex_rki]

Cloak of flame unique has 25 to 35 thorn fire damage it's nothing crazy but it could allow you to use fire damage and you can scale that through % increased fire damage and do some ignite shenanigans. Not sure how good it can be though

[@lerekt7818]

2:30 i m a fan of thorn builds aswell, feels so much invincible, and from your recorded mapping it was looking cool, cos u could move and enemies just exploded..but when u face bosses or single target "slow" creature it is a mega huge pain. any way to push this to the next level? because thorns build is the type of build nobody playing, but once u discover it is viable, then it gets exponentially faster and faster while doing maps\elites...but bosses is just a big sad no.

[@Swaxdragoon]

Lay Siege - 1% increased damage per 1% chance to block Offensive Stance - 1% increased damage per 1% chance to block Brute Strength - 10% reduced maximum mana / 1% increased Damage per 15 Strength To maximize STR stats you can play as Mercenary Legionaire which have passive for Inherent bonuses from Intelligence, Strength, and Dexterity be doubled

[@Traff92]

Go Titan, the 50% increase is a lot bigger than you think at start, as well as the 15% life. I would look to test if your thorns can apply bleed, if so then aggravating the bleed and ensuring your thorns always bleed is likely the way you can scale it higher. You can achieve 85% block with a good corruption on your shield, and using the anvil unique amulet, it seems you'd stack block, life and thorns damage the best you can, and if bleed works also that.

[@whattaninja3751]

This is what I was thinking, Thorns to apply bleed and then scaling bleed as well as thorns. Someone mentioned crit choir of the storms, too which seems interesting, but much harder to scale.

[@TheDonBry]

i just found a shield that reflect 250% melee damage, maybe that would help in this build?

[@CrispyHair6]

Are you going to make a build guild on Maxroll?

[@KallTorak]

Yes

[@wannesbiermans7938]

There is a unique body armour u can equip lvl 1 that gives a ton of (reflective) thorns DMG, don't remember name tho

[@theyungstump4933]

Bramblejack

[@Kykixi]

Did not know that thorns %dmg rolls on jewels. Maybe look into the adorented with corrupted magic jewels

[@ChristianJackson-j6r]

how you going to pass the Honor part of ascendancy challenge? taking all that damage will cost ya your honor in the trials of Seckama. p.s. sorry spelling

[@KallTorak]

Blocking doesn't make you lose honour. I was able to clear it last night after the patch

[@0x0404]

Oh I got that helm in act 2 I think. I was using it for the itemfind and was interested to know if they made thorns viable

[@mertgtc3358]

i try this build but projectiles and boss skills dont trigger thorns. any tips?

[@silchu5273]

u need Crown of Thorns helmet

[@alexsmith5827]

It's not Thorns, but would Bramblejack help out with damage, even though it's only melee?

[@masonhales]

I have a feeling the devs don't want thorns to be the main character of builds. If you could somehow find a way to have thorns apply an ailment then you could use resonating shield to consume those ailments with a support gem. It wouldn't be a true thorns build but I imagine this is the kind of role the devs want thorns to play.

[@jaredhill4367]

Hi, a little idea, if you used the aura Magma Barrier instead, and could get Avatar of Fire, then you could also scale both barrier and thorns with fire nodes.

[@lordthundyr894]

Great video - thank you! Thorns is so viable that you have to wait until Act 3 to Ascend... It may be viable in the end game, but maybe not as the only levelling plan. I don't think GGG planned around a Pacifist Witch. :)

[@TheArmouryOfficial]

Please Update me on this - I got my witch to level 10 without ever casting a spell(outside of intro) and just reflecting damage thanks to chest piece unique and pure thorns. The poison mobs in the 2nd zone were doing a number on me so I logged off.

[@Xmenjade]

this is sick, try including something that consumes the armorbeak for more damage/stats

[@randomfeg4141]

I would say warbringer would give you more damage if the negative armour break node worked, you can't swap ascendancies so just pick warbringer and wait for ggg to fix the armour break node.

[@davidcarter7880]

Thorns isn't meant to be a specialized build. Its supposed to just supplement, which is why its no good. You use passives for thorns that would serve better almost anywhere else. 2 things could make it decent though, is for thorns to scale off physical damage of your currently equipped weapon and make thorns activate on all hits naturally

[@chuckles819]

Va-lure. Its a very fancy velvet like fabric.

[@frankcoley1537]

I found that, I'm fucking GOING IN

[@Tetrahedragon2]

stone skin and sturdy metal SHOULD affect it, it's probably just needing to be fixed.

[@Ilovemyself1]

gem setup?

[@quincestopher8892]

Reminds me of fulcrum build alot in poe1 :)

[@olivierleger6590]

I'm guessing thorns will be something with duelist

[@GrandpaJay69]

Hulking form doesnt works with small attribute nodes

[@berkelium247]

You can actually do trials of chaos twice to do ascendancy. Check Ds lily's video of how it works