Don’t like Sabine using the Force? You must hate women

[@kristijan8518]

Both Anakin and Luke had huge hints about having superhuman abilities, reflexes and seeing few moments into the future. Rey and Sabine had literally zero build up, they went from 0 to hero in an instance.

[@davidm4566]

Lol she finally moved a small thing after repeated failures and then immediately masters the abilities enough to have Ezra jump off a cliff knowing that she will be able to save Ezra's life. Sigh. Such bad writing that destroyed any credibility the show had.

[@kalancosta7650]

@@davidm4566 you are wrong…. As yoda said “size matters not” or did you forget???? Yoda compared a rock to the x-wing and said they were same…. Meaning the difficulty is only due to perception (you think it’s impossible then it becomes impossible) When Luke said “that’s impossible” yoda said “that’s why you fail” Sabines force push was a BASIC ability…. Yall fans forget canon concepts so easily……

[@jiszmo6668]

@@davidm4566 Worst of all, Sabine had no reason to even think she could do that. So, why did she even suggest it. You are right, Bad Writing.

[@kalancosta7650]

@@jiszmo6668 actually she knew the same teaching yoda gave “size matters not” which is why she believed she could do it….. go back and rewatch ep5 when yoda is teaching Luke…. Luke says he can’t lift the x-wing (he compares its difficulty to the rock which is easy to lift) and yoda says they are “same” difficult only in your mind……. Basically he’s saying if you can lift the rock you can lift the x-wing…… therefore lightsaber = Ezra lol

[@kristijan8518]

@@kalancosta7650 size doesn't matter when driving a car neither, but no one starts learning to drive on a Ferrari.

[@Milothemighty10]

As I said before, I just hate it when Star Wars fans who genuinely did nothing wrong get labeled as toxic…

[@kalancosta7650]

You get labeled as toxic cuz you have stupid ass arguments not based on logic lol….. also Ezra did a force push which is a TECHNIQUE with ZERO training and not one complaint….. mind you not even anakin the chosen one could do that without training…..!!!!!!! So you see when you ignore ass pulls like Ezra’s use but rage over Sabine (who’s had training and even struggled with it) it kind makes it look like you guys hate women lol….. people wouldn’t say that if it didn’t appear that way….. which you guys do yourselves by your ACTIONS

[@changer_of_ways_999]

Yeah. I'm not staying in this toxic relationship. Why invest in someone that hates you? I feel like any Star Wars fan that's still following is like Vader saying, "I must obey my master." Just totally enslaved to someone who cares nothing for you.

[@michaellane5381]

Honestly with Rose my problem is "why does she exist?" Not from a female perspective, I'm all for another girl in the group, but why from a NARRATIVE point? Her character effectively exists to baby-sit our former black protagonist who now takes an undeserved place in the narratives trunk after her introduction... There is no other reasons added despite her technichian background, it's like a D&D group adding a bard who only outclasses the fighter who has been rolling 1's in combat and is there to keep all your dmnpc's from betraying the party while the fighter now rarely gets to do anything.

[@Amoschp524]

I think to be an emotional tie in because her sister was in the bombers, but she would have been better used being bitter against Poe since the film decided to dump all the blame on him for the bombers destruction. The way I saw how she was used was to be Finn's love interest since they went with Rey attraction to Kylo.

[@fusionwing4208]

@@Amoschp524 which made finn flat out horrible for the rest of the trilogy, he wasnt exactly the best character in ep7 but the narrative made some pretty big hints he may have been force sensitive to some extent... and they also retconned a lightsaber up the spine... alrighty then. I liked finn's character in ep7, notably more than Rey, though I saw some potential in all of the new characters in general

[@Amoschp524]

Finn was the best new character of the sequel because of his origin. So many ways it could have been explored but Johnson destroyed him as a character in Last Jedi.@@fusionwing4208

[@unknownsword9042]

A former stormtrooper turning into the main hero would have been so cool.

[@michaellane5381]

@@fusionwing4208 the funny thing is honestly I liked Poe more in ep 7 than Rey though I thought her writing made almost more sense in that I felt like his BS survival skills were just going to be a running gag... And then the rest of the sequels happened and I realised his survival was still a joke but it wasn't meant to be intentionally funny, that was just how they were writing all the sequel characters... Ofc they screwed up Finn by movie 2 and Rey went through a full arc without arcing so I stopped caring about any of the main 3 by that point.

[@DavidByrden1]

Sabine betrays the galaxy and risks war just to visit a man she likes. But it's not an obsessive romantic love, she's not "losing her mind". She just wants a calm conversation with him where she is fully in control. And later, NOBODY blames her or even mentions what she did. Sabine has literally zero Force abilities but is suddenly gifted with great Force powers just when she needs them. Don't accuse us of hating women. What we really hate is entitled, gifted brats. Or perhaps we don't like incompetent writers who don't realise they invented an entitled, gifted brat.

[@blakefriel704]

Well yeah, who wouldn't sacrifice potentially millions of lives so they could have a friendly chat with a long lost friend?

[@originaldarkwater]

Oh good Lord.... on the other hand, I guess, at this point, I'm kind of surprised they didn't roll that argument out sooner.

[@Flopdoodle]

"You don't have a problem with LUKE or Anakin being great force-users" Well here's the thing: In their cases, it's EARNED. Luke get's dragged through a grinder, first by Yoda, then his own father, and Anakin get's slapped around by old-man Christopher Lee as if he is an unruly child, they both go through real struggle that affects them as characters, they don't just sit there an evening pointing their hand at a goddamn coffee-cup and suddenly they are Jedi... Or even worse, the Download RAM method Rey apparently used on Kylo.

[@sanholo2483]

Yeah, Luke gets beaten by tuskens, in a cantina, saved by solo in yavin, beaten by a horned polar bear and resqued by solo again, gets his limb amputated. In the end he only wins because of his compassion, not his raw force power. Rey just beats everything with zero struggle.

[@tainoman7905]

Rebels Sabine is the equivalent of 2003 General Grievous She was no Jango Fett or Bo-Katan but she pulled her weight in a situation EVERY time. Why we loved Sabine before was because she was a multi-talented Mandalorian and part of this non-biological rebel family, no force required. Honestly she's one of my favorite characters in Rebels, her arc in the darksaber episode when she finally reveals her backstory was emotional and a great step forward for her character.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

Nothing Filoni makes is on par with 2003 greatness

[@tainoman7905]

@@АлексейМомот-щ7о To be fair this is a apples and oranges situation. Genndy Tartakovsky made the Micro Series so we're comparing two different creators here

[@THESEEKEROFMANY]

Your statement has flaws. You said Sabine is like “2003” general grievous and then went onto mention bo katan who wasn’t even thought of during 2003. 2003 grievous was terrifying and menacing. Is that who Sabine reminds you of? The only thing scary about Sabine is how bad she is at making decisions.

[@regularguy2807]

She was too much a mary sue though and now she is a complete mary sue.

[@Raximus3000]

Felony apparently thought that was not enough so he gave her the force as well. He literaly ruined her!

[@mcash232]

I honestly think one of the biggest missed opportunities in TLJ (aside from not totally ruining Luke and not being a bad movie in general) was not having Rey turn to the dark side and Kylo return to the light. Making that the consequence of Rey having so much natural talent and power would've made for an excellent example of "absolute power corrupts absolutely". It would've been a genuinely fun "reversal" and could've played into the return of Palpatine (assuming you want to go that stupid route in the first place).

[@andrewbirkett698]

And that would have need an excellent and novel plot twist for the middle act. But it does not fit with the woke agenda as they cannot possibly have a female being portrayed in any kind of negative light.

[@bryanblackburn6928]

She definitely showed enough anger in the movie to justify a fall to the dark side. The fact that she didn't was itself a slap in the face to the lore and just one more example of how Johson didn't care about it.

[@DarthB1ggles]

I mean, they were so obviously setting the story up to make you think that's how things were gonna go, and I was actually excited to see how that played out, but nooOOOooo they had to go ahead and "subvert expectations!!" Just. So. Lame.

[@JA432123]

I was desperately hoping that was the angle we were going for in that dumpster fire of a movie, it would have been so cool to see her go to the dark side and be redeemed by Finn and Luke working together to save her

[@mborok]

Both Rey and the broom kid in TLJ should have fallen to the Dark Side for the same reason as Anakin; unresolved childhood trauma. The very reason the Jedi were so selective in whom they would train, and mostly recruited very young children.

[@SSgtB0311]

Thank you for addressing this issue! If anything fails with the Disney Star Wars movies or shows, it seems to be blamed on an "ist" or "ism". Be it misogynist or racism, that's the knee jerk reaction.

[@kalancosta7650]

Well it’s the fans fault…. Look in the comments of any Sabine video and you’ll see “the force is female” type comments…. lol 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️ The hate that Sabine is trying to be a Jedi when she “should just remain and mandalorian” and yet are completely fine with grogu being a mandalorian and not remaining a Jedi….. it’s the constant blatant double standards that yall display that cause people to make the assumption…. Yall do it to yourselves

[@TheShoguneagle]

And then, this dude above interjects his little two copper pieces, drops a throwaway conversation that George Lucas had once, and attempts to gaslight you and everyone who thinks like you in a vain attempt to defend his bad take. "It's the fans fault..." No, Nimrod, it's you. You and the Disney cult. Sorry, none of them can write worth a damn and have to rely on red herrings, McGuffins, and Mary Sues/Gary Stus to hoist up their landfill's worth of trash. Be ashamed that you're an apologist for both bad content and bad behavior.

[@changer_of_ways_999]

And yet they're the ones that fired the fan favorite female character, Gina Carano.

[@changer_of_ways_999]

​@@kalancosta7650Dude, a lot of people are upset with Grogu not becoming a Jedi. wtf

[@kalancosta7650]

@@changer_of_ways_999 there aren’t 15 plus videos complaining about it like there are for Sabine but nice try……

[@Butter_Warrior99]

Meanwhile well written characters: Look at what they need to mimic to match a fraction of our power.

[@jameslikesit]

The stupidest thing is that making Sabine force sensitive actually takes away from her character IMO. She would have been much more interesting and compelling if she learned to fight force sensitives with mandalorian training instead of just magically learning how to use the force in like (seemingly) a couple days. They should have had her use her tech smarts to come up with tools or methods to help her in combat, like other Mandolorians. It would help deepen her ties to her culture and give her a compelling character to not give up even when outmatched against force users. Hell have her keep Ezra's lightsaber and use her dark saber training to wield it, that would be awesome lol.

[@Chief_Hiccup]

Agreed, writing is about how does a character solve the problem. That is where the tension lies in a story. It allows for development or revealing their lack of depth and ir always shows the quality of a writer. If a story, regardless of format, is bad but the writer says "this was my first time and I have a lot to learn" I am more lenient to them due to that humility.

[@grahamstrouse1165]

Mandalorian training and gear was specifically designed to deal with Force-users. Mandalorians are basically just normal humans on the SW galaxy but they do seem to have a rather low proclivity towards Force sensitivity. They’re like white people and jumping that way. 🙂

[@ECKohns]

Weird how a TV show called “Ahsoka” has all the discourse surrounding Sabine instead of Ahsoka.

[@eldenvedetta635]

You were gaslit into thinking it was an Ahsoka show. A better title would be Sabine: The Force is Female.

[@DarthTamarus]

@@eldenvedetta635😂😂😂 TRUE

[@kalancosta7650]

@@eldenvedetta635see people like you are why fans get called toxic lol…. You clearly hate women leads with your “force is female” comment….. 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️

[@Valen-mh9fh]

​@@eldenvedetta635😂

[@jarmoliebrand2005]

Kind of like a show called “Kenobi” has much discourse surrounding Reva, though some of said discourse is still targeted towards Obi-Wan, of course.

[@SgtAJ218]

Hey Thor, I'm curious about your take on Force Spirits. I have seen there a lot of debates about Jedi having Force Spirits, particularly since Anakin’s Force Ghost was changed in ROTJ. I personally always believed that Luke was seeing the Hayden Christensen Anakin just older (the one we saw in the Ahsoka series). But I would like to know what your take on Force Spirits are and how they connect to the World Between Worlds.

[@nathans84]

Your a brave man for attempting to approach this subject without being in some way biased.

[@Samrules888]

you want sabine to be force sensitive? here's a better way to do it. have the nightsisters gift her force powers (like we saw them do with savajj opress) in exchange for giving them the starmap. she was diven by revenge so it would lead her down the path to the dark side instead of being a one off thing that is easily hidden.

[@Valen-mh9fh]

A female villain in a Disney SW product!? What's next, a male white hero? Madness, utter madness I tell you! 😅

[@jarmoliebrand2005]

I was interested in Rey for a little while in TroS because I felt like they maybe set up some dark side in her… but no. She doesn’t struggle with that at all. Can’t let the strong female character be evil.

[@DarthB1ggles]

lol, I saw a stupid post on reddit a few days ago that was complaining "oh you think Sabine's overpowered but you're fine with Savage??" And well.. yeah. Exactly. The Nightsisters transformed him into a force-monster. Sabine's still just some regular ol' human that never showed any signs of being a force-wielder. Quite simple.

[@Samrules888]

@@DarthB1ggles savajj wasn't even that powerful. palpatine fucking one shotted him. and giving people force powers is something only nightsisters and the very rare once in a thousand years jedi can do. its not even about her OP-ness envy. it's the fact that this is something that hasn't been done before. it didn't fit in with the series lore. yeah ahsoka introduced things left and right but expanded the lore so that it was satisfying to find answers to what's outside the galaxy, how can these backwater witches apply the force in such powerful ways, what are the purrgill? and what happened to hera and kanan's kid?. can people just get force powers should have been long since settled. though i would like to know if han was force sensitive. it would have been in my sequel trilogy, but I think the golden trio needs one regular non jedi guy with a blaster.

[@grahamstrouse1165]

@@Samrules888Savage’s enhancements made him quite formidable but his Force abilities were very narrowly focused. They boosted his considerable physical prowess, senses & general awareness but that was about it. If Savage wanted to mess with your brain he he’d rather get to it in a more direct fashion…by going through your skull.

[@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t]

"Don't ask questions. Just consume product and then get excited for next product".

[@bryanblackburn6928]

It's been a long long time since I read the jedi academy trilogy, but I believe it was in those books that they established just how few people could use the force. There was an artifact that could be used to test someone and then Luke discovered a way to determine force sensitivity using the force. Again, it has been a long time since I read these books but I don't remember more than a dozen or so individuals in that first class of students so obviously it was pretty rare. I understand that this trilogy is not considered canon by Disney SW but I think it would be a mistake to go the opposite route and just say everyone is force sensitive. Almost makes me think the people in charge of Lucasfilm are desperate for ratings and seem to think more lightsaber duels are the only way to do that....which IMO just shows how little they understand the IP. There are plenty of beloved non-force using characters in the SW Universe....heck I would argue Rogue One is the best movie Disney SW has created. Regarding Luke's training, I agree that he probably had months with Yoda at the very least. The Falcon's hyperdrive was not working and Han even says "it's pretty far but I think we can make it". The journey to Bespin likely took many months, but the way the movie is edited makes it seem quicker. There are other ways in which Luke shows just how naive he is...like in Ep IV when on the falcon for the first time he says things like "what's that flashing" or shows his complete lack of understanding for how hyperspace travel works (it's not like dusting crops). His plan to rescue Leia was also flawed because there was no plan to get back out and she had to take charge to create an exit. Bottom line, Luke was far less capable in the first two movies of his trilogy than Rey was in hers.

[@slipperyfrog24]

I don't hate Sabine using the force. But I think her extreme leap from not being able to move a cup even a fraction of an inch to all of a sudden being able to yeet a grown man 200 yards and 50 ft upwards was laughable.

[@JohnArceane]

The only explanation I will ever accept is that the planet they were on has a deep connection to the Force, like a giant living-cosmic battery of energy. If and when Ahsoka and Sabine return to the SWG at large, Sabine should logically regress significantly in her abilities. Perhaps it would teach her to once more rely on her other skills and abilities as a Mandalorian, instead of becoming everyone's Mandalorian Jedi OC from the age of fourteen.

[@matthewpelletier6900]

@@JohnArceane I like this, but if they didn't mention it in Season 1, I doubt they'll get around to it in season 2.

[@Hanoua2]

Its like with Kenobi in his own show, the guy can barely move a wrench 2 feet away from him, but then when he face vader he goes super saiyan and throw 5 tons of rock with his mind

[@JerryHazard]

I'm cool with Sabine using the force. Especially not knowing or expecting how good she'll be with it. But I feel they fast tracked her just a little bit for the sake of the story, which I think does her a disservice. It makes her more like Rey. I need to see her struggles (and success) to make it worthwhile, or compelling. So the idea, to me, is good. But it was written poorly (the actor did a great job, though). A great example of why Filloni is *not* the guy to be in charge of creatives...

[@stephenelberfeld8175]

First you need to explain what a space ship is doing, hovering in an Earth-like gravity, and that force push appeared to be about a half a mile. Those ships do not shrink for the convenience of a plot.

[@Darth_Lex]

Funny. I never noticed Broom Boy using the Force during that scene. Shows you how much the sequels mattered to me.

[@TheShoguneagle]

We don’t hate women, Dave. We hate bad writing and poorly-developed characters. The sad part is that Sabine was an interesting and well-developed character… and then you saddled her with the Narrative. It’s pretty clear the politics of this company got to you and now you’re just peddling whatever Bob Iger and KK tell you to. No buys.

[@jarmoliebrand2005]

It’s particularly disappointing when you thought Dave knew how to make good, capable character who just so happened to be women. He did well in the clone wars and rebels… Sad to see the streak end.

[@Gundam4]

Indeed

[@slb797]

I personally never cared for the 3d clone wars or rebels. But I enjoyed the Mandalorian seasons 1&2 so much that it has carried my interest even past these crappy shows ….but i think i am done. Maybe 1 more show. If its no good, I’ll cancel my subscription

[@investoroncoke]

Most Star Wars fans bought this on themselves by championing Dave Feloni as the saviour of star wars for the last 3 years. So stupid. If anyone could of helped SW it is the Andor writers and showrunners

[@ArcAngelus6]

@@jarmoliebrand2005 Looking back it's obvious he didn't write the best episodes. It's definitely not wise to champion one person as the creator of an entire tv show.

[@Brandon-yy5cc]

I am so tired of identity politics. 🤬 these people who claim this are mentally ill.

[@kalancosta7650]

Look at the persons comment above your own post…. You’ll see why people says it because you hate women…. lol 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️ yall do it to yourselves

[@emilyquinn9691]

Women and minorities existing isn’t politics , Bigot

[@grahamstrouse1165]

@@kalancosta7650You really are damaged.

[@kalancosta7650]

@@grahamstrouse1165 elaborate

[@originaldarkwater]

Rey controls her emotions exactly that ONE TIME in TFA. Immediately after, she grimaces in anger and yells with every blow she makes, just like she does every other time she fights with a light saber. Once you notice it, you can't unsee it and she should have fallen to the dark side a thousand times over during the sequel trilogy. I just watched the scene again and it's shocking how much she looks like she's about to strike Kylo down in anger. But I suppose it's okay because women are naturally allowed to be angry at men. I guess the Force doesn't count anger if you're "punching up"? Yet more proof that Disney/Lucasfilm doesn't understand the Force at all.

[@kennethsatria6607]

God the free passes these characters can get away with...

[@Hanoua2]

I always think about "that" scene in the last jedi where she's about to fight with pretorian guard (the one with the disapering dagger) and she just scream with anger

[@triciab1289]

Yeah, when I watched TFA and much of TLJ, I really thought they were setting Rey up to fall to The Dark Side since she was unable to control her emotions and fought with anger. Really bad direction from JJ and Rian, reinforcing that they had no understanding of Star Wars.

[@originaldarkwater]

@@triciab1289 Agreed, and if they didn't know, the Story Group should certainly have been telling them, assuming the Story Group had the kind of power Disney told us they did. Even though I'm only kind of lukewarm (heh) on Filoni, if nothing else, he wouldn't let this kind of thing slide in his new position.

[@Valen-mh9fh]

She's controlling her anger all the time because she's a woman. Haven't you seen She-Hulk? 😅

[@landonmathews6111]

This response to the fans is exactly why I don’t want Dave Filoni anywhere near Star Wars

[@grahamstrouse1165]

I wouldn’t go that far. I don’t think Dave has the adequate skills to front a major live action show or movie, though. He’s not evil or anything. He’s just been promoted over his level of competence.

[@katerbiller04]

This all harkens back to the Tales from Mos Eisley Cantina in the short story where the pilot( in the NASA style suit, the one who introduces Obi-Wan to Chewbacca) suddenly that after Ben senses that he was force senative, he was able to use the mind trick to escape the aftermath.

[@ECKohns]

So Sabine is such a great force user, where was she when the First Order wiped out the Republic? Why didn’t she or Ahsoka step in to help at any point during the Sequel Trilogy?

[@Samrules888]

because jarjar abrams don't know shit. the sequel trilogy needs to be retconned away like sonic 06

[@eldenvedetta635]

*Disney Trilogy. The Sequels are the Legends novels like Thrawn and the Yuuzhan Vong War.

[@Samrules888]

hear hear@@eldenvedetta635

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

Filoni will start crying like a baby if you ask him this. He'll be forced to bow down to Rey the Mary Sue and kill his characters.

[@ECKohns]

@@АлексейМомот-щ7о I’m sure that Ahsoka will somehow still be alive in the upcoming Rey movie and still swinging a lightsaber despite being in her 80s.

[@JA432123]

One of the episodes I love in Rebels is when Sabine is learning to fight with the dark saber and Ezra beats her every time and then Fenn Rau gives Sabine some mandalorian tools to take him down a notch, it shows she doesn’t need the force to be a badass just to use her strengths

[@Hanoua2]

Something that's mostly unique to Star Wars is when anything bad happen in a show or a movie, its going to affect everything, the video games, cards, comics, toys and collectables, rpg. So when they do something dumb, it has huge consequence for the brand since its all suppose to be canon

[@sardonicspartan9343]

No human likes a mary sue.

[@PixelKatana]

Awesome video Thor, I was worried you wouldn’t bring up the poster child but you did midway through. I’ve always thought it was obvious that we were spoiled as viewers by constantly observing exceptional Jedi during the prequels to the point we take for granted their greatness. You could have sent 20 of the Jedi that went to Geonosis to rescue Palpatine in ROTS opening sequence and they would have failed. Obi-Wan beat Grievous who had a literal lightsaber collection from his Jedi victims. Regular Jedi abilities are far more toned down.

[@Rule-of-two]

Fans just want some bloody consistency

[@Pedroz0r]

Hey Thor. One thing I’ve noticed in modern media and modern interpretation of older media is that there is no training time everybody is just perfectly adept at the start. And that annoys me, I grew up in Latin America watching anime during my childhood and teen years and one thing that always stuck with me is that all those characters main and secondary, female and male they all trained, went thru years of training and improvement and now everybody is just the best at the beginning I miss those days

[@yanyanzhang5813]

The fans who are called sexist online (me included) probably find characters like Mara Jade and Jaina to be super cool, I certainly do. Also I appreciate how the Ahsoka series is helping to expose Filoni. He isn’t the savior of Star Wars. He’s part of the problem. The only way to save Star Wars now is either for the political landscape of Disney to change and then bringing a whole new team of writers who actually like Star Wars for being Star Wars and respect it, or letting Star Wars die until Disney gives up on it so it can be revived by people who care again later on.

[@betterlatethannever4529]

Just because everyone is connected doesn’t mean everyone should have access to the powers

[@nathanchun4880]

It not that we don’t like women having Force powers, we just don’t like how they are overpowered.

[@bsdjkgf2939]

Fans after the sequel trilogy: "Rey didn't even train and became super powerful without working at it" Disney: "Your sexist but fine, training is the only thing you need to become a Jedi" Fans after Ahsoka: "Nope, too far in the other direction" Disney: "You just hate everything because you hate women" Fans: 🤦‍♀🤦‍♀🤦‍♀

[@Gundam4]

Their "logic " in a nutshell

[@lasercraft32]

Notice how nobody is complaining about AHSOKA using the force, only Sabine.

[@Valen-mh9fh]

Shhh... Logic like that will mess up their argument!

[@cameronfarrell9076]

Hey Thor, what role do you think video games play in the star wars cannon? I just finished playing jedi survivor, that game plus jedi fallen order are some of the best star wars stories we have gotten since Disney took ownership of star wars. It makes me sad that a lot of star wars fans wont experience these stories because they dont like or play video games.

[@grahamstrouse1165]

Survivor & Fallen Order are both pretty terrrifc. The two KOTOR games are my all-time faves as far as Star Wars games go but Jedi Survivor & Jedi: Fallen Order aren’t that far behind. One of the things I really like about this duology is that none of the newly introduced heroes (or villains) are obnoxiously OP. Cal’s an above-average Jedi with one extremely rare talent (psychometry) that serves as a nifty device for moving the plot along, but you never get the feeling that he’s invulnerable. That’s why I never liked Starkiller. He was almost as much of a Gary Stu as Rey was a Mary Sue.

[@FTChomp9980]

It just doesn't make sense because at the end of Rebels it didn't show that Sabine was Force Sensitive at all it is a Retcon that doesn't make sense since Filoni is a hack writer.

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

I mentioned before sabine's gauntlets were equipped grappling lines, repulsors, and paralyzing darts, as fenn rau said "all designed to combat the abilities of a jedi." Also she had a jetpack. Even without her weapons and gadgets sabine is still a capable warrior and rebel.

[@speedycerviche2380]

Not anymore. Threw it out the window for mary sue powers.

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

@@speedycerviche2380 not trying to complain, but i wondered where her jetpack was throughout the last few episodes.

[@zacharyclark3693]

You don’t just walk into a dojo, strike a pose and suddenly know martial arts. Imagine if The Karate Kid movies had main characters who spend no time learning and were just naturally good. It’s not realistic or satisfying. Consistency in storytelling is the main issue. We don’t get upset by Peter Parker suddenly getting superpowers because that’s consistent with his and other superhero stories. The Originals and Prequels gave us an expectation of what it meant to become a Jedi. With some recent superhero movies I’ve noticed that new characters tend to be introduced having already learned about their powers. And yeah, we’ve seen the new hero discovering their new powers in many movies, so skipping that part for some characters can be fine since we have seen it so many times. But in Star Wars, learning to be a Jedi is so much more than a training montage. It’s character growth, it’s understanding what the Force is, it’s like the Uncle Ben moments (going back to the Spiderman analogy). Without those moments for Peter Parker, Miles Morales, or Gwen Stacy, they’re just kids with powers. We don’t want kids with powers, we want heroes. Jedi.

[@Gundam4]

Thank you at least someone gets it. Consistency is always key something they've chosen to forget entirely

[@JoseMendoza-df1ld]

Nami from One Piece live action was great, because she was likeable, sympathetic and had an actual character arc. She also couldn't do everything herself and needed help from her fellow male crew mates. Maybe Rey would have been a better character if Disney had a plan instead just making it up as they went along.

[@eddobh]

in the next Rey movie, they should make a Hans Solo clone and make him able to use the force. The fans would love this, for sure.

[@name-vi6fs]

This is a perfect breakdown of the issues with Rey's force abilities compared to Luke and Anakin. Only a Disney shill or identity obsessed ideologue would see it differently.

[@decay79]

Han a father like figure to her.. yes they had known each other for at least 1-2 days.. The true silliness comes before we even include the force, in a fight, in a bind blade to blade and you just close your eyes.. That's where the other guy shifts his blade slightly and takes out your throat or the like.. As to hate on Daisy, why ?.. It's not like she was a horrible actress, she clearly just had a bad script to work with, same with Kelly.. The dislike of either character is so clearly about the poor story telling not the actresses nor the gender of said characters.. And i truely believe that this goes for the majority of SW fans..

[@CC-dw9ch]

I do indeed hate Sabine using the force. MY problem is simple, she wasn't introduced as a force capable person in REbels...Ezra was...so my problem is with inconsistency DAVE! If she was introduced that way, then I'd have ZERO problem, but gender swapping a jedi? that's just woke garbage...and I will not sit quietly for it. This is all mute anyways, I won't be watching anything made by Filoni moving forward and it's all his fault!

[@eldenvedetta635]

I agree. If you didn't know, you can see online Dave has said it's GOOD to ignore established lore lmfao. He's a joke, he was only ever good when he was on Lucas's leash.

[@codyjones843]

Not to be that guy, but it’s “moot”, not “mute”.

[@michaellane5381]

Honestly I think she had foreshadowing for "reactive" talent like Anakin podracing... But not to USE it... I even would have been fine with force pull though if Dave wanted to actually make even that believable I would have wanted him to have her use her grapnel-wire to retrieve it and then lose that kit, be shown failing the maneuver until finally getting it when she needs it.

[@eldenvedetta635]

@@michaellane5381 But there wasn't any foreshadowing like Anakin's podracing for her though

[@ChosenOne-il4bm]

The force is Buddha nature Anyone can achieve it lol It’s that simple Study what George based Star Wars Dave learned from George

[@SynthLizard8]

Sabine being able to use the force is one of many things that are Mary Sue about her, being soo young and yet able to do anything and everything.

[@CitroChannel]

My bigger problem with Sabine using the Force is less that she's able to use the Force at all (though it still definitely should have been established in Rebels first if they were going to go in this direction) and more that it makes her less interesting than before. I like Sabine more as a badass that could hold her own without needing the Force at all! She was shown to be a skilled Mandalorian warrior that could make some use of a lightsaber from training with Kanan, was a great shot with a blaster, a master of explosives, a skilled pilot, and could fight tactically to make up for power/strength disparities and still hold her own! I feel like Sabine didn't _need_ to be a Force user at all, especially when the Ahsoka show already has Ahsoka herself, Ezra, Baylan, Shin, Vader, Inquisitors, and we even see three witches of Dathomir (and Rebels also has Kanan, Ezra, Maul, Vader, the Bendu, lots of Inquisitors, etc...) and making her a Jedi actually makes her less interesting and unique in those shows IMO. Sabine could have and has been able to be a total badass without needing to be a Force user... and I just find that makes a more compelling character to be paired up with Ahsoka and Ezra and such and adds more variety to their mix.

[@changer_of_ways_999]

Agreed. I really am annoyed that they felt the need to make her a Jedi to make her valuable.

[@matthewbreytenbach4483]

On the fight between Rey and Kylo Ren in The Force Awakens. Rey had prior skill with a staff which would translate fairly well to the lightsaber as well as advanced movement skills from climbing around in starship wrecks for years, and Kylo Ren was badly hurt. But then Rey actually spent most of the fight running from him while he just meandered forward like a bulldozer, which is exactly how it should be considering the gap in skill and experience between them. It was only in the next movie where they dropped the ball by having Rey take on opponents that he himself struggles with and doing about as well as he does.

[@Amoschp524]

Hey Thor, what is your take on the new cannon version of the witches of Dathomir? They seem to be outside of the light and dark side struggle with the way they are setup in Ashoka. In legends they were descendants of a fallen Jedi women who used chants, songs, and gestures to focus their intent into the force. It produced a very chaotic force presence that was hard to fight against but ultimately inferior to the training the Jedi and Sith used. Legends also had other different groups that accessed the force in different ways that were vastly different from the Jedi/Sith dynamic. Usually weaker but more varied.

[@fusionwing4208]

I always figured the witches just utilized a more unique aspect of the dark side of the force, that being alchemy (which wasnt even a new thing to them, its always existed, just rarely ever shown). The Dark Side is not inherently evil, just difficult to control under heavy use, so I just honestly thought their usage of alchemy stemmed from the dark side specifically, and they were (usually) able to utilize it without being completely corrupted by the dark side.

[@Amoschp524]

The whole from another Galaxy thing makes me wonder if they had a different power source although maybe they are pulling from legends on the ancient Sith that used alchemy and the Force more like DnD style like you said. @@fusionwing4208

[@lasercraft32]

I watched a video essay made by The Gold Man and he did make a very good point... When Rey won against Kylo Ren, Kylo was emotionally conflicted from killing his own father (who still showed love to him in his last moments) so Kylo couldn't use the force to its fullest. AND he was also shot by Chewy's bowcaster beforehand... Which is a very powerful blaster. So yeah, Kylo Ren was severely weakened during the fight, and Rey was channeling her natural force abilities. While Rey does show many Mary Sue traits, I don't think that was one of those moments. Though I understand why many would think that.

[@BingLing-vz3og]

agreed, and it should also be noted that when Kylo finally had a 'fair' fight with Rey, he actually won until Leia intervened. That was one of the few parts handled well, actually.

[@Valen-mh9fh]

Possible, but Kylo killing his father was meant to remove the conflict within him. If it hadn't, which is possible, it just makes Kylo's character even more lame. Even allowing for all that, fighting and beating a weakened, but trained, fighter isn't straightforward. Having natural force abilities also doesn't necessarily make you a skilled swords-person. The explanation is possible, but the scene could've been handled differently imo.

[@lasercraft32]

@@Valen-mh9fh That's the _point._ Kylo THOUGHT that killing his father would resolve his conflict, but instead it made it worse. That's part of his arc. When Kylo kills Han Solo, Han touches his face and shows him love. You can see it in Kylo's face that he's conflicted because of it. I must repeat, Kylo Ren was shot by a WOOKIE BOWCASTER (if you don't know, they fire _metal_ bullets surrounded by plasma energy, and can blow up multiple storm troopers at once with a single shot) before the fight. Actually yes, the force DOES massively improve your abilities (Did you miss the part where Luke manages to blow up the Death Star with little practice just by using the force? Or how Anakin as a little kid somehow managed to blow up the entire trade federation ship his first time flying a ship? Or how Jedi can deflect blaster bolts while blindfolded just by using the force?). I know I'm laying it on thick, but do you get my point? And lastly, Rey isn't a novice when it comes to fighting. She was a little girl growing up on Jakku (a desert planet populated by scavengers and thugs) she had to have been able to fight off bandits to survive as long as she did. And while fighting with a staff is very different from fighting with a lightsaber, we see in the battle itself that Rey does NOT have good form with it and she's mostly swinging it around in a rage (possibly even channeling the dark side of the force a little). Don't get me wrong, the sequel trilogy's storytelling and writing was TERRIBLE, but that doesn't mean _everything_ about it wasn't thought out. They just did a terrible job showing it, so most people missed it.

[@lorewalkermaohao4602]

Another thing to remember about the "first fight" moments is that Dooku and Vader didn't try to kill their opponents. Vader wanted to recruit Luke while Dooku just wanted to get away, still quite fond of Obi-wan and out of respect to Qui-gon spared both of them.

[@jedimasterdraco6950]

Not really, he was about to go for the killing blow when Yoda appeared and I'd argue he was toying with them throughout much of their duel. He probably was under orders from Palpy to spare Anakin, but by that point Dooku had fully embraced the Dark Side, his old attachments would've been little more than errant thoughts.

[@Apollo1989V]

Rey was untrained yet seemed to have better control of it in her first movie than Luke and Anakin did in their second.

[@RevanMartinez]

🎯

[@funkydiscogod]

You're supposed to feel like a fool for ever supporting them.

[@Paradox-es3bl]

But even that could’ve been ok with a good explanation in her second. Maybe. But we don’t get that. So it’s even worse in hindsight.

[@vastos2587]

I know its crazy. I like the idea of Rey, but yesh it was poorly handled. Also the comment of Luke and Anakin having the same op strength w/o training is just wrong. After the 2nd movie Anakin made it his goal to train harder to master the lightsaber and he had how many years of this increased training regimebt before he became one of the best. He also wasnt even the strongest Jedi, yoda and mace couldve easily beaten him then. Luke's whole training was meant to show how powerful he is since he only got months of training to become powerful, but it still took him 3 movies to stand toe to toe w/ a Sith lord. Even then he was weaker then palpatine. Rey beat the "Vader/Dooku" in the first movie, granted he was injured both physically and mentally. Ill defend the point that solo movie wise it made sense since they built up chewies crossbow to be this canon of a gun the entire movie. Kylo getting shot by it showed his strength by not getting ragdolled, but showing hes heavily injured. Im totally fine w/ finn getting the upper hand since he does have combat training and once he gets a hit Kylo actually starts to try. Rey should not have been able to overpower him like that. The most they shouldve done is have her block Kylo w/o him overpoweing and then Rey getting in a counter attck to scar him, kinda like how obi won fights. That way it couldve shown Reys power w/o destroying the power system, and having Kylo not overpower her b/c if his mental physical injuires. Rey had potential, but bad writing ruined her. Also side note, Finn was wasted even worse. He couldve been this cool mara jade type person who weilded a blaster and saber. When he held both in the 7th it looks really dope

[@fusionwing4208]

@@vastos2587 when I saw ep7 I fully expected there to be two Jedi at least, Rey and Finn, against Kylo and Snoke. I honestly saw Snoke as an Interesting idea, and ep8 completely destroyed that. I also found Kylo's obsession with becoming like his grandfather (who he believed was vader, not anakin) understandable. I do think Rey's sudden power spike was a problem, and it was only made worse after that, Kylo at that point is a well trained Sith Apprentice, basically bordering Sith Lord at that point, even when beaten down he would certainly have the strength to continue fighting and have the upper hand. (also, I felt the first order was ruined entirely as well, in ep7 they are basically portrayed as the Nazi Regime, granted the Empire had some inspiration from the Nazi's the First Order felt like they just went full on down that path initially, I was expecting to like General Hux as a pretty cruel leader in his own right as well)

[@jiszmo6668]

If it was sexism, then why isn't anyone complaining about Ahsoka using the force?

[@horvathbenedek3596]

I know SJWs have made the expression "Mary Sue" the fiction equivalent of saying the N word... but how can someone say with a straight face that this character isn't a Mary Sue? She's a character artifically introduced into an existing IP and universe, who is exceptionally talented, the world revolves around her, is lacking in actual flaws, ks constantly validated, etc... Sabine is a rainbow colored, purple eyed, pink armored 15 year old LITERAL warrior princess, who's also an artist, a martial arts expert AND an explosives expert AND master tactician, who also happens to have a lightsaber, but not just ANY lightsaber, but a super special one; and she get free fencing lessons from established powerful characters, because of course she needs more skills; and she's also force sensitive now. Oh, yeah, and she has a very cool sounding, absolutely not mandalorian name. Just to put this into perspective. This is like me (as a Star Wars writer) introducing my original character, Arxon Wry, who's incredibly handsome, tall, muscular 15 year old heir of the Mandalorian throne, who has ashen hair and deep flaming red eyes, and just so happens to be a Terras Kasi master who can immobilize a Jedi without a weapon; he's also an experienced master marksman, and has a badass one of a kind armor, that comes with a one-of-a-kind vibroblade that can even cut beskar, because f your fandom... and he's personally trained by Luke Skywalker aboard the Millenium Falcon - whom he, for the record, stalemates, because come on, are Jedi really that good at fencing? -, and also, Leia falls in love with him, and also, he spends his leftover time writing songs and playing space guitar (you guessed it, he's an expert in that too), and also, he's Force sensitive. To FURTHER put that into perspective, the biggest Gary Stu of the prequels, Anakin, is - good at piloting. - good at fighting with a lightsaber. - good at repairing stuff. - really good with the force. That's it. Despite being the chosen one, and being the core focus of the prequels and TCW, he's not seen being a master hand to hand martial artist, or a weapons expert, or a smooth talker (he couldn't rizz his way out of a paper bag), or an especially wise person, or someone other characters fawn over, or an artist, or someone who comes into possession of some ancient, valuable artifact; he doesn't even dress especially provocatively (well, not to the viewer anyway - his black robe was a taboo). And OH YEAH. What does he get for all this blessing? His comeuppance, in the form of burning to a crisp, because there's always a catch. Well, unless you're a female character written by Dave Filoni. If someone doesn't see that Sabine is a textbook, billboard sized Mary Sue, I don't know what to say.

[@seeerr5570]

Very well said

[@jordanbestwick1986]

Learning to use the force is not like flipping a switch, it's more like learning to play an instrument. You don't go from not being able to play anything to suddenly playing a whole song; you're going to slowly build up skills and see small improvements. At least with Sabine we saw her trying several times unsuccessfully, which is somewhat realistic. But then her force powers came like flipping a switch which just felt unnatural

[@ghostface4404]

it was a response to a need. it's an old concept.

[@TheL0ngbeard]

Every skill we have we had to learn over time to become proficient at it. From basics like walking, talking, grabbing, to more complex things like playing music instruments, speaking different languages, coding, fixing things. Some pick them up faster some pick them up slower, but it is a very basic human experience and a thing we can all relate to. When someone goes from 0 to a 100 in the span of days it just doesn't feel right. I think if they took it slow with Sabine, it would go down better. Although there is still the argument that she was a well rounded character even without the Force and the whole thing is unnecessary, which is sound.

[@jspaingreene6350]

I always appreciate your balanced takes. In this case I also appreciate your articulate and patient response to this ridiculous assertion. You hit the nail on the head. I'm so sick of the sexism card getting pulled to defend current Star Wars. The media is taking the meaning out of that term. You poked holes all over that article. Keep up the great work!

[@Amoschp524]

Obi-Wan was the best example of training makes the difference at least in the books, he started almost not being a Jedi Knight to matching the best Jedi Masters.

[@eldenvedetta635]

Exactly, though also only talking about Legends and ignoring Disney canon, I say Kenobi was one of the main reasons for Anakin's fall to the dark side. Qui-Gon was right about a lot, but was dead wrong about Kenobi being ready to be a knight when he said so during Episode 1. Kenobi needed quite a bit more learning, not training so much as learning. Kenobi was already at that time an amazing combatant, but needed to learn more of The Living Force that Qui-Gon had to offer. I think Lucas even said Qui-Gon was one of the only jedi who could've trained Anakin and kept him on the light side. I remember learning how Kenobi almost had to be a farmer, using the force to grow crops, if Qui-Gon didn't take him on as his apprentice when he did.

[@friscokid21]

​@eldenvedetta635 i would say Kenobi was ready to be a jedi knight, but he was definitely not ready to take on an apprentice. He had just "finished" his own apprenticeship, and immediately had Anakin dumped onto his plate when those first years of becoming a "journeyman" jedi, should have been spent on solo missions or missions alongside other jedi knights/masters so he could become more refined in developing his own personal philosophies and fighting style. We couldve been 10x the jedi master that he ended up being and when he was ready, would have been able to actually choose his apprentice that he felt connected with. It isnt too far fetched to assume Kenobi felt some kind of resentment toward Anakin for being a beast of burden that was essentially forced upon him by Qui-Gon and the Jedi Council which may have affected how he trained his unchosen padawan

[@eldenvedetta635]

@@friscokid21 Absolutely agreed though I still would place the blame on Kenobi and the council for that, not Qui-Gon. if Kenobi had more so listened to Qui-Gon's teachings he could've been ready, at the very least to not be so resentful which he definitely was, you can feel the animosity from him in Episode 2. And while they can have somewhat differing beliefs they, as Jedi, are meant to hold at least some of the same beliefs which most Jedi at the time actually were very wrong in. The original Je'daii, before they even had lightsabers, were far better in their philosophy. They viewed themselves as never unarmed because the Force was on their side, meanwhile Kenobi is saying your lightsaber is your life. (I think that was also one thing Qui-Gon was wrong about as I think he also scolded Kenobi if he didn't keep his lightsaber fully protected). The Je'daii Code was also much better. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no fear, there is power. I am the Heart of The Force, I am the Revealing Fire of Light, I am the Mystery of Darkness, In Balance with Chaos and Harmony, Immortal in The Force.

[@rector0455]

EU Kenobi: Defense wins championships. Slop Wars Kenobi: lel I'm space Jesus now

[@marknovak6498]

I think I am seeing why a company should never own an IP like Star Wars. There seems to be no limit to how the underlying logic of a story can be written into nonsense.

[@Valen-mh9fh]

I don't think the issue is that per se. An issue is that there's no visionary creative behind the show (KK isn't creative or visionary from what we've seen).

[@Davidbmr1970]

At least she trained, at least she struggled… Unlike the magical Krazy KK self-insert Rey.

[@spawnneverland5334]

There is no reasoning or justification for anything that happens in Disney Starwars. Period

[@imnotinsanebisquit]

the force has been reduced to "hAvE yOu TrIeD cOnFiDeNcE"

[@fairytalejediftj7041]

When I was a youngling, Star Wars gave me hope. That's why, when I left the theater after seeing TLJ, I literally had tears in my eyes. I didn't think I'd ever see a Star Wars movie that was that bad. I didn't think such a thing was possible, but a white man proved me wrong.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

4:42 saay, I think I remember a rodian baby making some blocks float around in a clone wars episode. We still cool with that?

[@Gundam4]

Same old argument. But I actually feel more sorry for the actress for live action Sabine. She's playing a good character whom everyone already liked, only for to have said character to suddenly be ruined by the writer and higher ups. When everyone is special, no one is.

[@dareka9425]

I guess everyone in the galaxy must've somehow unlocked their Force affinity during Rise of Skywalker. I mean why would tens of thousands of them got onto their space ships and warped right next to a fleet of Star Destroyers with portable Death Star beams in the middle of Sith space? Without a semblance of a central command they would need the Force guiding them to maneuver that many ships in a massive space battle. I'm a guy so technically that would make salivate me at characters who gain and wield so much power as easily as Rey did. No, far from it. I like the concept of isekai in manga and anime but sadly there are so few shows in the genre that I truly love thanks to off putting MCs. There are far too many MCs who are divine-selected/protected and given some sort broken cheat skills to breeze through their new world. I prefer stories where the MCs are either still learning throughout their story(Mushuko Tensei and Karate Survivor) or OP MCs who are learning something new that is they struggle with(One Punch Man and Frieren).

[@teddy_westside81]

Thor I appreciate your break down. Sadly many many fans don’t care.

[@MikeSidious]

Not everyone can use the Force in the way Jedi and Sith do. This is why we have Midi-chlorians. The Force is not a participation trophy.

[@D0CBEE]

Her introduction with rock music....in Star Wars... was the worst, most cringe worthy thing I've ever seen, and that includes Rey AND Jar Jar Binks. It was so blatently trying to force you to know shes cool and she's a rebel. It was just pathetic.

[@Rakshiir]

It is all about lore, setup and delivery. Anakin and Luke having the force was not only setup and delivered, but it also was lore friendly in a sense that they never really used it until having trained. Before that point they did use it "passively" which is shown by having great reflexes, or above average abilities because they used fractions of their power. With Rey and Sabine especially there is no setup at all. Especially Sabine in all her previous appearences while having alot of abilities (trained as a Mandalorian afterall) but never ever showed any talent in using the force. Heck, several force users never ever felt anything from her which would be unusual to say the least. The series and she as a character herself show she has no connection to the force as well. But suddenly she can use it without training. There is no setup to the delivery, and it breaks the lore overall. And Rey, well, she "at least" was a new character, so we cannot say much about her past abilities. But she also had no setup for using the force so it doesn't work in terms of setup and delivery and also does not make sense in terms of the lore. The fact that the guy who is "supposed to save Star Wars" does not understand why they do not work in the universe is not great. He should be the guy saying no to the ideas, especially Sabine already was a pretty interesting character without force powers. It made no sense for her character, made no sense in the show or the lore, so you should simply not do it.

[@ghostface4404]

Sabine did have a setup. Her training with the Jedi. Kanan saying that she blocked herself from the Force. Her leaving with Ashoka. I'm really starting to think that those hating this never even watched the show... Hell, one here never they never finished.

[@Rakshiir]

@@ghostface4404 Truth be told, that one sentence is not enough setup for her in my opinion. And I am not even sure that is what they ment by it back then. Especially since she didn't need it, she had certainly enough going for herself. Add to it the lorebreaking fact that she suddenly could use it like a pro (previous training for me does not count since she never ever managed to move anything even an inch). I will not give them easy outs for bad writing. Star Wars for me is worth more, they need to do better than this.

[@ghostface4404]

@@Rakshiir it should have at least hinted that they were going that direction. And you think that she's the first to do the impossible under tense circumstances? This is no different than the likes of a fan favorite... Like, Gohan for example. What do you want? You don't want someone who has never trained to be op and you don't want someone who's trained for years to finally use the Force under extreme circumstances. It's just irrational.

[@marcandrelegermusic]

Man, in this one you’ve further refined the points on Disney Star Wars vs the Original Saga. It’s getting clearer and clearer. I don’t get how the more mainstream media keeps pushing its opinion and point of view that goes against the people who love Star Wars. What is their motive? What do they have to gain? Or do they really believe this?

[@Mandoshawn]

Not that anyone will read this but here’s my thoughts on the Sabine force push. I think she was only able to do it in this other galaxy because it’s a force nexus. It would be pretty awesome if she went back to the known galaxy and couldn’t even move the cup lol.

[@msmaria5039]

That would make sense.

[@Paradox-es3bl]

If only they had that in the show, it may be ok. It could explain her (presumably) low M count and no training being effectively negated.

[@kalancosta7650]

@@Paradox-es3bl she had training tho prior to the show….

[@kalancosta7650]

More than Ezra dude and even more than Luke initiallly….

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Well then that'd make ezra look even lamer with his lack luster skill set over there

[@Invalidcookie-bv4cx]

So, what about General Grievous? Why couldn't he use the force?

[@nobodyshome6792]

For the entirety of The Rebels series, she couldn't sense, feel or use the Force. Why else would Kanan have never trained her. But nope, it's because a person she has not met (Asohka) blocked her... Seriously it doesn't make any sense.

[@brandontodd2761]

I find it more annoying they cant just let a character be more average/normal Mando couldnt just be a bounty hunter exploring the Galaxy he had to get mixed in Jedi/rebel nonsense and then Sabine had to become a Force users, her character was likable in the Rebels show but between the actress and the bad writing in live action she just a slightly improved version of Rey

[@orun0810]

I love your videos for the simple fact that you make sense and often articulate everything I am feeling or thinking into a palatable format, yet I don't see the point anymore. Disney has decided that Rey is the way and the force is just magic and it can do whatever the writer decides it can do in the moment. So knowing that there really isn't a point in pointing any of this out anymore. They will just say the force is living and does what it needs in the moment or something. The character needs to know where someone is? The force told them. The character needs to quickly develop powers to match the villain? The force decided to help them. We can do this ad infinitum, so why bother. Star Wars is dead and sucks but it's dead. They are releasing a Rey movie in 2-3 years which will solidify her has a SW protagonist. I immediately wasn't and never would be a Star Wars purist. I played the games and read a few of the legends books and was willing to accept some hand wavy "magic" nonsense for the sake of a good story, but even I feel like they have gone too far.

[@MedalionDS9]

You say perfectly why I had issues with Rey even since Force Awakens.... everything just comes naturally, and defeating Kylo in combat... all to be magically explained away by a contrived plot idea in the last movie called a Force Dyad... no... this is just bullshit... bad lazy and condescendingly bad writing to push an agenda

[@emilyquinn9691]

“Push a agenda” found the sexist

[@bazzzzz6175]

It all comes down to....... Disney is THE WORST thing to ever happen to Star Wars.

[@skepticalsmurf]

“There’s no place like home!!! There’s no place like home!!!” I guess Dorothy was a Force user too 😉

[@Ak-yg8fr]

I heard she shipping with shin. The internet said Ezra and Sabine were supposed to be together after Endor. Instead I believe she making herself the dark side.

[@Treblaine]

"never had any issue with Anakin using the force without training" ORLY?!? Everyone loved young Anakin antics? Everyone loved a small child winning a podracing tournament then blowing up battlestations?

[@hunkulous1462]

Hey Thor, I was wondering your opinion on Sheev Talk's analysis on the Clone Wars in "Star Wars: The Clone Wars Does Not Hold Up (Part 1)" and Dave Filoni's career as a whole--Do you think a similar degree of plot holes and bad writing found in the Ahsoka show has always been present in modern Star Wars? On a side note I've recently found that watching the Clone Wars in Order with all the arcs that don't have Ahsoka is something I'd recommend trying (it's about 7 Arcs & Season 6) and this reframing of the Clone Wars treating Ahsoka as not existing is interestingly far more presentable to non-fans, and even hyper-critcal viewers, and I might agree that while Dave Filoni has had good moments, his hyperfixation on the character of Ahsoka is another factor that could be said to have been damaging the entire franchise since its begining-

[@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775]

The sad fact of this is that I liked SW Rebels, but Sabine having the force now actually destroys the purpose of what SW Rebels did with her. There was a really good episode of her training to use the darksaber. It's an emotional, well-written, and impactful Rebels episode. But, the Ahsoka series has degraded her. There was no mention of her having the force in SW Rebels. Not one mention. Not one hint. If she had the ability, it would have happened in SW Rebels, plain and simple. As far as I feel for these social media platforms that criticize the critics, they never saw SW Rebels. They condemn you because that's all they have left anymore.

[@ghostface4404]

it's not as if it wasn't foreshadowed at the end.

[@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775]

@@ghostface4404 Foreshadowing what? Rebels never hinted her with the force. Kanan, Ezra, and even Ahsoka would have picked up on that.

[@ghostface4404]

@@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775 Kanan did! the big hint was her leaving to find Ezra with Ahsoka -- hinting that Ahsoka was gonna train.... not that I can bash others for not catching.

[@Gundam4]

You are correct

[@morgansheppy1584]

Whatever filoni lost his marbles. 3 movies and some books

[@ltsmash1200]

Why does everybody need to use the force? Sabine was already cool as a Mandalorian warrior. She doesn’t need to have the force. It’s fine.

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

remember sabine is filoni's wife's self insert character in rebels.... once you learn this everything starts to make sense why ahsoka took a back seat in her own show

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

Source?

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

@@АлексейМомот-щ7о her twitter and she was involved in rebels.

[@rector0455]

Felony's self insert is the dog she rides.

[@RaikenXion]

8:16 Yes that's it right there thor you just hit the nail on the head. that was ALWAYS their message and "plan" from the very start. Remember as far back as 2014 all that @metoo movement was building up, Hollywood had caught wind of it and were heavily trying to push all that and i think Disney just saw metoo and thought yes! we can pander to this, and pander heavily they did through all there "Disney Princesses"; so yes, i think that was always proverbily what Disney intended, we were ALL meant to just clap, praise and applaud Rey purely for being a "Woman", a young, petite, pretty white girl who can do no wrong, everything comes to her naturally, or she's given it, and must not complain, or dare criticize her. Infact i'd go as far as to say at this point in 2015 Kathleen Kennedy and all her ilk at Lucasfilm had gotten so drunk and high on all that metoo Koolade, that they simply expected ALL fans would just jump on that bandwagon with them; and that their plan was just so failproof, that any "Male Fan" who dared not go along with that whole narrative, would be lambasted, heavily attacked online by Disney's whole army of newfound "Intersectional Feminists" and SJWs, that you'd simply be shamed into liking Rey and not saying anything out of line against the character. Oh but this was where Disney and Kennedy were gravely wrong lol. You see WE are "Star Wars Fans!" And we expect Well Written, Properly Developed Characters. By the time last jedi had came out most of us had worked out that Rey is nothing more than a poster girl for the kind of "Feminism" that was being heavily preached in Hollywood at that time. I especially remember the clip in the last jedi, toward the end of the movie, the battle of crait is ramping up, Rey's in the gunner seat of the falcon, bullseyeing FO tie fighters left-right-&-center, and she's like - "Oh i like this!" I get it Rian is trying to nod and capture that samekind of fun energy from the space battles of Jedi, and past starwars movies. Except we've already seen her swim, fight off Snoke's elite praetorian guard, beat Kylo and the rest, and on top of that the whole tone and just how much of the Resistance died in that suicide run against the FO contingent at that point; and perfect Rey who can do no wrong is just simply having a blast in that gunner seat. that scene (among many others) just never sat well with me in that movie, no blame on the actress Daisy in fine in her performance just Rian's fault in the whole uneven tone of how he wrote that. But yes, that scene really does exemplify how Disney always wanted us to see Rey; that no matter what we just have to clap for her, we SHOULD clap for her, she's a WOMAN Goddamn it! Sit and worship her now!! Is the vibe i get from Disney in their whole handling of Rey in the Sequels lol. She's always just been this empty, shallow no substance character that's just there to look nice, and girls and young woman can dress up as, with that elegant, iconic even 3-top-knot style of her's. Every time Disney and people like your Filonis, Rians, JJs and even Kathys start calling us basically sexist for not liking their mary sue female characters, we gotta start saying this what thor has pointed out perfectly. Call these people out and tell them straight to their faces - this is not about "Fans" being sexist, this is really about YOU guys writing poor female characters that don't have flaws, because you're all brainwashed to that perfect, vacuous "Strong Female" syndrome, and therefore you expect us to just blindly clap and applaud like good little otters, for your badly written mary sue characters. SEE through you, WE can Dave Filoni, you male Feminist simp.

[@qui-gone]

At this point it is rather easier to just embrace and discard the labels they throw at us, than argue. It is just sophistry

[@RobMacc]

Sabine can use the Force, Thrawn can use the Force, heck R2-D2 can use the Force... it all matters not, SW is as its parent company, dead as the Dodo.

[@edsr164]

Sabine is not a Rey 2.0, she has had training with Ashoka off-screen, and she struggled a lot during the series and only ever managed to use the Force when she absolutely needed to. And weren’t extraordinary feats of force use. She almost dropped Ezra too soon, and it took a lot of time to pull the lightsaber.

[@rontaylor5522]

Another awesome video, my man. Keep up the great work Thor...

[@Blackdawn80]

I have come to the point that it's a badge of honor to be labeled "misogynist" or any other "-phobe".

[@emilyquinn9691]

So you’re proud of being a terrible person ?

[@investoroncoke]

It just dilutes Star Wars even more. Now there must be equity in force use so everyone has force abilities. It’s just dumb

[@jefferickson8493]

This isn't Star Wars, it's Disney. The magic of Disney is just if you believe it, then you can be it/do it. You imagine you are a top jedi master even if you have never used the force or used a lightsaber, and what happens? Boom, unprecedented abilities overnight!

[@kalancosta7650]

This why people think yall hate women cuz of posts like these….. lol 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️

[@Valen-mh9fh]

​@@kalancosta7650that's what you got from his message? 😂 Are you paid by Disney, or a shill?

[@joegarza4869]

Thor I totally agree with your observations about these kinds of articles. I personally don't have a problem Sabine being force sensitive, I saw the foreshadowing in rebels, namely the dark saber arch and the wendu's reaction to Sabine's presence and her uncanny ability to think on her feet well passed Kannan in some cases. My only real issue with live action Sabine is that the actress doesn't have the same level of charisma as the voice actress, and also the actress doesn't seem to have the same level of understanding of the character that say the actor does who plays Ezra ( he absolutely nails it). But overall this article and society in general has lost the ability to talk about anything with nuance , which is why politics and government have broken down in the last thirty years. Starwars fandom or any fandom is just a small symptom of a much larger problem.

[@Captain_Hellas6991]

Dave literally wrote it so she COULDNT be force sensitive at all and now it changed? As soon as Sabine used Ezra’s saber in the new show I almost immediately dropped it because I knew exactly where it was going to go and I was extremely disappointed to find this fact out

[@ghostface4404]

This was foreshadowed at least 3 times in Rebels.

[@niccistarkiller1131]

Rey did a mindtrick that would have made both Yoda and her grandpa Palps jealous, when she downloaded Kylo's training. Without any training. Sabine also had no training, especially she had non with the force. Sabine got the ketchup effect. First comes nothing, then nothing then you have the hole plate filled with ketchup. Just because she could get the lightsaber, directly she became a fully trained Jedi. And we are just gone be okey with that, cause it's a girl or what? The guy who wrote this article must also have forgotten about broom-boy

[@turtleislandlac1490]

It's true I haven't seen that many hate comments toward Kelly, but I've seen plenty of hate towards Daisy to this day. Every time someone mentions the Rey film I see people slamming her acting or lack thereof (but to be fair there some saying she's a good actress with bad material). But over and over I see comments saying Daisy is a crap actress so to claim Daisy doesnt receive any hate is blatantly false. It's on any social media.

[@rianpask1145]

The force is in all things but not everything or everyone can use the force. Filoni has made a mockery of the whole force and Jedi thing. And Sabine going from someone with no aptitude for wielding the force as said early in the Ashoka series (and Kanan not sensing this in her for years fighting alongside her) to all of a sudden being incredibly powerful is laughable. Star Wars is a shell of what it began as. Well done KK, your new Star Wars is dead and you killed it.

[@bryanperez7408]

no, we don't like how much of an a**pull it was