How it all came down to a "Duel of the Fates" | Do Nightsisters cause imbalance? | More questions...

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[@Sousabird]

I don't know if the Nightsisters imbalance the force, but I do know that all the insane powers they have are completely story breaking, except when they just... forget about them. Seriously, they can amp some rando into a hulking brute capable of taking on multiple seasoned jedi, have power over death, seem to be able to triangulate anyone, anywhere whenever they want, turn into intangible smoke to avoid all damage, create voodoo dolls that can have power over someone as strong as Dooku, turn invisible and quite possibly either create or teleport matter between galaxies, and we're supposed to believe that this group lost to the CIS, and Grievous.

[@Luks2820]

True. It's straight up magic in a setting where they make fun of people who call the Force magic.

[@guilhermepupo2840]

i mean just like the force, magick its seem doesn't have a clear limitation to what can't do just seems like a soft magic system like the force, the problem is the lack of limitation of theses powers

[@vetarlittorf1807]

Tell me about it. Like, they can teleport, become intangible, raise the dead, become invisible etc.

[@kurtmccathron3781]

On legends there were witches of dathomir and nightsisters were essentially the darkside counterpart. Book “The courtship of Princess Leia.

[@russellmxnia]

Holy crap, you’re spot on dude. I’ve never thought about it this way.

[@neighborhoodthreattv]

Something I never see people bring up is that Kreia's argument against charity can be just as easily applied to self-interested actions. When taken to its logical conclusion, it's really an argument against acting at all, an argument for total apathy, ironically enough.

[@mrblank-zh1xy]

Kreia was basically trying to make night sisters out of Jedi

[@stopreadingmyusernamebroth9090]

Anakin brought balance to the Force despite destroying most of the Jedi Order not because of it. In what world would Lucas or we consider killing children “bringing balance”?

[@comradeartyom6637]

I mean. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do yknow

[@ryankwon8785]

I agree the Dark Side is there but it shouldn't be used, but understand that there is darkness in all of us and we have to master it to keep ourselves in balance. This is what Legends Luke did when he allowed his Jedi Order to study to Dark Side but warned not to succumb to the temptation of using it.

[@AndrewAce.]

I saw Duel of the Fates on tbe big screen for the first time the other day! 🎉

[@ian-flanagan]

The whole reason we strive for balance is to achieve "goodness", so good and evil are "meta" to the entire system of balance. Just because some of the components of balance, in isolation, can be considered "bad", doesn't mean that "evil" is one of them. There are many things that, in isolation, are dispreferred, but in the bigger picture are needed for balance: rain/sun, night/day, sleep/awake, death/life, work/relaxation, ..... But "evil" is the intention to destroy or steal, and throw things out of balance: too much death, too much work, etc. (I don't know if this fits with SW lore, but it's my interpretation of Yin/Yang, and very glad this series of videos helped me understand it)

[@saveritas731]

Hey Thor, I'd like to correct the record on Kreia if I can. In that example, Kreia is reacting to the decisions of a "Light Side" playthrough. If you pick a "Dark Side" playthrough and abusively refuse to help the refugee, she chastises you for it, and you get a cutscene where the refugee reacts to your abuse by taking it out on others. A big part of her philosophy is that she is not trying to convince you to be a Jedi or Sith. She is trying to get you to be thoughtful about your choices, consider the consequences of your actions, and avoid behaving in a dogmatic manner. She is indeed secretly Darth Traya. However, she is not actually secretive with the player. She will admit to her identity fairly easily, you just have to get the most bare minimum level of influence with her. She is manipulating you, but she is very transparent about it and responds positively to you turning her philosophy against her. She is a Dark Sider through and through but she's probably the most nuanced Dark Sider in the EU. I'd say more but I didn't want to spoil everything.

[@vintifada7115]

That’s a non canon video game using these decisions to create game mechanisms and story to create a good game. That’s not George Lucas’ world

[@tjcarr8097]

Not even 2 minutes into this video you nailed it perfectly bro!

[@HaydenStephens515]

Holy crap, I FINALLY understand WHY that awesome Theme they played in that three-way battle in Episode1 is called Duel of the Fates! Until now, I always thought it just sounded badass, but now thanks to Thor in this video, I understand the narrative meaning behind it, which only makes it even MORE badass!!!🤯

[@alanviniciuswanderleytavar4399]

We need light to balance our darkness which is in all life, it's not wanted or desired, it just exists, we need to accept, but not embrace, we accept to get it in check

[@silverbullet1620]

😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳 Thanks Thor. I was kinda joking and wasn't expecting you to respond to my comment in a video.

[@thorskywalker]

I kinda figured you were joking a bit, still brought up an interesting question though.

[@michaellane5381]

While generally i agree the dark side isn't "needed". My take is that much like you said the light "side" is the force in general as it is supposed to be. The Dark "side" is like a hystamin reaction to "wounds" of the force, while actual "wounds" can become voids like the "'Vong". This is why the "Unifying Force" was needed by Jacen Solo to view the Vong, because you can only "see" them through the reaction, not through normal interaction. However; the dark side isn't really "needed" by the balance of the force, it just happens, which is why jedi were founded, because if they can prevent the "wounds" they can keep the dark side from being generated/corrupted into existence.

[@selforestgrove]

🤯🤯🤯 the first Q/A blew my mind. I was looking at everything as positive and negative. To get balance, I thought they needed just as much light and dark, but the selfishness causing the imbalance makes so much sense.

[@HaydenStephens515]

Yeah, so many people misunderstand what “balance” means, or is supposed to mean, in StarWars, to the point that said misunderstanding has even started seeping into some of the canon materials. But Thor gets it. Also, I FINALLY understand WHY that awesome Theme they played in that three-way battle in Episode1 is called Duel of the Fates! Until now, I always thought it just sounded badass, but now thanks to Thor in this video, I understand the narrative meaning behind it, which only makes it even MORE badass!!!

[@MJC2289_XboxSeriesX]

Hey Thor! Back again to clarify about KOTOR 2. The game is mainly about decisions and how it effects the future whether good or evil. Basically Kreia was showing the exile by helping the homeless man, you made him a target to the others that live amongst him by giving him money. Which in his case, the consequence of the exiles actions was the man lost his life due to a crime. The crime wouldn’t have happened if the exile didn’t provide the money, giving motive to the ones who murdered. Kreia goes on about how you shouldn’t help people, but use and manipulate them (as a Sith would say). The game wants you to see the effects of a ripple, how one small pebble can create a large ripple effect in the universe. This is the theme throughout the game. The finale is the exile is the pebble and the ripple effects are the result of the Mandaorian Wars, the destruction of Malacore V , the Jedi and mandalorians who fought there, and the creation of the Sith Triumvirate. On a side note, the game displays that anybody (force sensitive) can become a Jedi / Sith, as you can make everyone in your party become one. The game does show training for them, and they won’t be as strong as the exile with the force but they do well. Of course none have an immense force wave ability like Sabine. Anyways thanks so much for the response! Love the videos, keep up the good work my friend.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Y-yeah I'd say the nightsisters cause unbalance if the sith do. They're rampant cruel to others, defile nature with their magicks, and covet power in pretty similar ways to the sith. The distinction between those two cults is really the level of scope and versatility rather than morality.

[@elmermedina1713]

Balance should’ve been the murder of Palpatine. Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord, the only one who achieved the goal of eliminating the Jedi, and was overall a cancer of the Force. Anakin killing him pretty much balanced the Force.

[@diegominero29]

Hey Thor, about that first part of the will of the Force and free will, I was rewatching the prequel trilogy and noticed something that I find very interesting and I would like to share and hear your thoughts on: the scene in TPM that contains the whole point of this subject is when Qui-Gon anounces that Anakin is free: Shmi asks is Qui-Gon will take the boy, he answers yes, because "it was no coincidence we met", and when Anakin at that moment is not shure weter he wants to go or not, Shmi says to him "This path has been put in front of you, it is your choice to take it or not". I find it very simbolic that Qui-Gon is stating basically that the will of the force is destiny above all else, yet he did things of his own free will, conscient decisions, that shape the outcome (i.e. when he uses his jedi powers to move the chance dice at betting with Watto and making sure it's Anakin and not Shmi who enters de bet); and Shmi is basically stating that there is not a path in which we have no choice, but that the personal choices are what defines everything, yet he had absolutely no choice, she was kidnaped against her own will, brutalized, and she could not made a choice in weter becoming a key element in Anakin's turn to the dark side. I love how each of this characters says one thing which they truly believe, but they end up been the example of what the other said. This gives absolutely not a clear answer in a debate of free will vs the will of the Force, but that's what makes it great, in my opinion, because then it shows how much of a complex issue this is, and therefore makes it feel way more real in a trascendental way; I find it fasinating because it's a discussion that can become an actual philosophical excersice on teological questions. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I LOVE your chanel and your content!

[@douglasstephens6693]

Thor. I think you understand and explain the Force here better than anyone else I've ever heard/seen outside of the Maker himself. Great job! I wish Lucasfilm would listen.

[@patrickbeals2416]

Hey Thor …I agree with most everything you said about the will of the force for anakin and quigon training anakin …the mortis arc changes everything tho about your argument …I think anakin always turns to the dark side unless he becomes the father whether that’s a mortis god or saving Luke …maybe with qui gon training it happens in the arc …but nevertheless anakin needs to be the father to fulfill the prophecy

[@djcody492]

The Mortis gods were not actually representative of Darkside, lightside, and the balance between the two, as in a deleted scene, the son actually commented on how horrible he felt falling to the dark side.

[@rigby_rich3650]

I don’t know if any deleted scenes in the mortis should be taken as information about them. Remember revan was supposed to make an appearance but they deleted because it didn’t fit canon

[@cloudmaster182]

That is part of the dark side, if you really get into the lore. A pretty high percentage of them, even some that become very powerful. End up regretting it in the end

[@vintifada7115]

It’s a deleted scene lol don’t take it as truth. There are multiple reasons a scene can be deleted but that kind of conclusion from that deleted scene definitely overrides the rest of the arc

[@bobthebonzo]

The Mortis God says too much light or two much dark would end life as we know it. I think that depending on what part of (Lucas) canon we’re looking at, some aspects of the Force differ slightly. In the original 70s Star Wars drafts the Ashla and Bogan were literally 2 sides of the force. By the time it went to shooting, that was obviously gone, but the OT Force explanations are of the “cosmic” variety. Then come the prequels with a living force and physical components (midichlorians) as well as the balance concept. I love to hear well thought out theories on the force. And I think the fact that there is no 100% clear cut breakdown of living/cosmic/balance is what keeps it interesting. Otherwise there would be no content like this.

[@vintifada7115]

@@bobthebonzo The force is expanded upon in the prequels with the midiclorians. It’s not a contradiction, in case that’s what you’re saying

[@luisfigueroa6710]

Kotor 2 gives the most nuanced and accurate understanding of the force. Balance is both the light and dark working together in harmony to ultimately sustain and progress life. The problem with the Jedi is that time and time again, they fall into dogma which goes against the purpose of the light side. The Sith abuse the dark side to push against the balanced force, which is what makes them so twisted. Both of these extremes is what ultimately motivated Kreia to want to “destroy” the force. She hated it. As a Jedi, she became victim of dogma. As a sith, she became a victim of power and violence. Neither side had the best interests of the Galaxy in mind. Anakin is this example. He is balance incarnate, but became victim to Jedi dogma and a victim to sith corruption and power.

[@bobthebonzo]

I think the cave on Dagobah underlines that the dark side, while maybe not “necessary” so to speak, it is a “natural” part of the force. “ That place… is strong with the dark side of the Force. A domain of evil it is.” However, the evil that naturally exists there is still subject to free will. It can’t magically turn one to the dark side. In it is "Only what you take with you.

[@morningtalkmotivation7986]

Hey Thor, Thank you so much for the response, it is comforting to know that Vader was never the whill or destiny of the force. That is something I always struggled with being many people believe that. One other thought I have been struggling with is when Anakin slaughtered the Tusken Raiders, was he not justified to do so? From my understanding, weren’t the Tuskens known to kidnap, torture, and murder people? And isn’t the force used for knowledge and defense? If that is the case, wasn’t Anakin defending people for the future? That also brings me to an interesting point, the force is used for knowledge and defense. In revenge of the Sith, Mace disarms Palpatine and he is defenseless. Was he not listening to the whills of the force when he went to go strike and kill him? Or could the forces whill have been to kill Palpatine, which would be the best future defense for the galaxy? But if that is the case, then Anakin was justified for doing what he did. Thank you for all the insight!

[@vintifada7115]

Brother, I don’t want to sound condescending but the point is not for you to reimagine the morality of Star Wars. Even if you could successfully argue some alternative moral teaching “oh Dooku was actually doing good the whole time, qui Gon was wrong to trick watto, and anakin was right to kill the raiders” Star Wars is an alternative fictional world with an objective view of morality about right and wrong that affects everyone else for children which means you’re kind of supposed to take the morality beats as they are. And you can find the morality the movie is trying to convey by the cinematography, music, etc. However, I also think you can’t successfully argue this out of universe. Revenge is not right. He didn’t kill raiders bc they attacked him while he was selflessly saving his mother. He snuck in, his mother died, he got angry, and killed raiders including the women and children. It was teaching it was selfish and out of anger not a sense of justice

[@BillyBasd]

Killing *all* the raiders was wrong. Even if your morality allows revenge, killing the entire tribe is too far.

[@morningtalkmotivation7986]

Definitely see your point, maybe I am just overthinking it. Thank you for your opinion!

[@morningtalkmotivation7986]

Yes, that is true, I think sometimes you can overthink the the term “defense” that’s is why I was showing it in both anakin and Mace viewpoints. Thank you!

[@vintifada7115]

@@morningtalkmotivation7986 You’re very polite :)

[@paveldatsyuk8268]

3:04 freddie prinze jr said that the force does determine the outcome before a battle occurs. He said he learnt this from dave

[@raztaz826]

Warlord Zsinj was wise to blockade Dathomir to keep the nightsisters from running loose on the galaxy. But he didn't have to deal with all the crazy powers that they have in the Clonewars series. Seems that nobody need have worried though even in legends, since by that last book series they must have already had lots of opportunity to leave the planet but never did anything.

[@bobs3302]

Hey Thor, Thank you for reinforcing the true idea of balance as George intended it. I suspect they're going to try to change it all shortly with The Acolyte. This might have been explained by some media at some point, but why did the Sith have to be in hiding for 1000 years? The Dark Side is supposed to be quicker, after all. What were they accomplishing over all that time?

[@stevearmstrong4883]

I like your content. Relatively short videos that use Star Wars as a jumping-off point into philosophy. Keep it up.

[@nightman1790]

If you ask me the Night Sisters are just an example why you must keep a close eye on certain writers to make sure they don’t add any weird stuff to the universe. The dark side always causes imbalance because the dark side is a twisted perversion of what the force should be, to use it is to go against the natural order of things and no one is immune to it’s effects when you start using it you will end up consumed by it sooner or later, it is like trying to use drugs in moderation, sooner or later you are going to become addicted. It essentially seduces you until you are consumed by it completely.

[@JohanMsWorld]

I see the force as tidal waves that shift back and fourth between good and bad. At times of maximum tidal vawes the force works almost complete in one sides advantage but most of the time its relative neutral and gives equal opertunities to borh sides. When Palpatine take power the tidal vawe is totaly in the darkside favor but 20 years later it has swing over to the light side. J.

[@lukeorloki]

I kinda wish Lucas had somewhat loosely defined the force and balance more to a point of general fan understanding while still leaving it's wonder and depth. With disney being the purchasing main story teller of new star wars stories, it will be up to them to finish defining the most important aspect of Star Wars in what is the Force and what does balance mean. Past disney star wars story telling does not give confidence that disney force and balance will make sense with existing lore. I think the dark side isn't needed yet it is a fundamental truth in Star Wars much like evil choices aren't needed in our world but they exist by choice. Maybe Force is just Force without inherent light and dark side. Maybe moment of choice, intention, and perception change Force to what would be considered light or dark side depending on the user and the used upon. Light can be both wave and particle. Force can also be much. Is disease light side or dark? Are animals light side? What about in the moment they are killing to eat or out of fear? Are soldiers in the Rebellion purely light side? Maybe their is more dark side than clear evil dark side. As noted there are dark side users that don't seem to be corrupted like the Sith. Or at least the usual Sith. Luke's new Jedi school teaching could have addressed decades long questions about the Force while adding to the incredible depth of Star Wars lore. Instead we got Abramns and Johnson disney garbage story telling that leaves me with no interest in rey doing what should have already happened if sequels star warts didn't suck.

[@lukeorloki]

Hey Thor, If the Nightsister's use of the Dark Side didn't imbalance the force maybe the Mortis Son also wasn't originally an expression of dark side that unbalanced the force. Maybe Abeloth sneaking a drink from the Font of Power and bathing in the Pool of Knowledge causing her to become corrupted by the dark side was a true form of corrupted dark side unbalancing the force. Maybe natural dark side (The Son pre-Abeloth) is just an aspect of natural force. Abeloth became a corrupted version of the dark side of the force by the unnatural act of being a mortal who snuck a drink from the Font of Power and bathed in the Pool of Knowledge. A distinction between natural (Nightsisters) dark side and unnatural (Sithy) corrupted dark side use makes some sense to me. Natural light and dark force follow within the order of the force. Abeloth's dark side is chaos and destruction which like the Sith can cause imbalance by specifically how they use the dark side or the force in general.

[@badshard09]

Excellent stuff, keep it coming.

[@MedalionDS9]

The reason the Jedi don't do anything about the Night Sisters is because the Jedi do not own exclusive rights/control to The Force... the Jedi would do something about the Night Sisters if they did cause actual imbalance in the Force and started trying to change the fates of others using Dark Side Magic.

[@saberiandream316]

It's because in the EU where the Nightsisters hail from, they were just one rogue faction among the entirety of Dathomir, and the rest of the Dathomir witches had a flawed system, but they weren't evil, so the Jedi just left them to their own affairs. Similar to Haruun Kal, another planet with Force-sensitives, and Mace Windu's homeworld. You wouldn't know this if your only experience with the Nightsisters was TCW and the scaled down Filoniverse butchery.

[@nickcalderon2637]

For the Kreia comment, the real lesson Kreia was trying to teach the Exile, was that their actions, good or bad, have consequences outside of their control, and so the Exile should heavily consider their actions before doing them, don’t just act on doing the Good thing just because it’s Good. Or in a better way to say it, do the Right thing, not the Correct thing.

[@nicholaszornes2837]

Hey, Thor! I have a question about "Tales of the Jedi/Empire": Do you think the format of the show lends itself to good storytelling? Personally, regardless of whether I've liked an episode or not, I find it really difficult to connect with the characters and story, and I can't help but wonder if the 10-ish-minute runtime is hindering its chances. I think that a longer runtime would allow the episodes to flesh out the story and make it easier for the audience to follow and engage with it. At the same time, I know the Tartakovsky "Clone Wars" series was released in shorts, and the visual storytelling is incredibly effective. However, I still find myself watching the entire volume together rather than in the shorts as it was released. Perhaps I'm off and the issue is something else entirely. What are your thoughts, though? Thanks for all your and your wife's great work! I appreciate you both and the videos you put out.

[@istari0]

I think the Force was out of balance by the time of TPM as indicated by Yoda in AOTC when he said "A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones." Yes, I know the second movie was 10 years after the first but I don't think there's anything to indicate things had changed with the Force significantly in that decade. If the Dark Side is unnecessary then I wonder what brought about its existence? Did it not exist until people began trying to use it for selfish purposes?

[@starwarsnewsandmemes8289]

Hey Thor, I have a question that I feel would be a good follow-up to this. Does what makes something a light or dark side come down to what the power is, or what it is used for? Is using a light side power for a negative purpose (such as using a Jedi mind trick to manipulate someone for your own gain) a light or dark act? How about using a dark side power for a positive purpose (such as using force lightning to keep a hospital running during a power outage)? What's more important, the power, or the intent? I know a lot of people would say "grey jedi" or some other non-committal answer, and I want to hear your response especially since I know your perspective on grey jedi is less than favorable, but you always can address nuance in such an issue.

[@sethyoung9792]

I’ve always thought it was a little weird how Merrin was so concerned over Cal tapping into the dark side in Survivor, while nightsister magick is drawn from the dark side. Is she not worried about her own power?

[@jaredlocke4300]

Hey Thor, what are you thoughts on the old republic Sith? The Sith aren't supposed to achieve immortality or be able to manifest as Force ghosts, but a lot of them seem to achieve a version of these things. Darth Vitiate, Darth Scion, Darth Nihilis etc. Would love to hear your take.

[@OswaldPHaygood]

How pissed was Qui Gon's force ghost when he saw all the people after him who were stabbed in the abdomen (even twice, in some cases- hello Reva!) and survived with no lasting consequences?

[@denniscool6224]

I think the entire death thing in Star Wars is miss understood also cuz you don’t really disappear you become part of the force you become something more that’s why you shouldn’t fear it.

[@TurquoiseDreamer001]

On compassion, people often get "Compassion" and "Coddling" mixed up. Real love, real compassion, wants to enable people to take care of themselves. CODDLING says "oh, let me baby you forever." Coddling, which SOUNDS like compassion, is what causes problems. Instead of, say, giving out money to random people, a better, wiser act would be to make changes in the community itself, enabling the homeless person to rise above and get a better life. Find the root of the issue and fix that, don't just put a bandaid on it. Don't get me wrong, there are times to just hand out money to someone who is desperate, but the long-term solution is to find the root issue in the community, and fix that. Bandaids should be used to stop bleeding now while you fix the bigger issue. Bandaids should not be the ONLY solution. That's compassion. Find the REAL solution and do that. Coddling, again, is more of a selfish act. You, the coddler, like being "compassionate" and like having someone to baby so much that you refuse to actually help that person. Coddling is not compassion. Coddling is almost like having a trophy you hug all the time. Problem is, it SOUNDS like compassion, and people THINK they are doing a 'good deed' when really they are not. Just food for thought.

[@emberfist8347]

Hey Thor. If one of the flaws of the Prequel is that they are supposed to be arrogant why does Qui-Gon get a free pass for his own arrogant attitude? Also can go into the cosmic force versus Living Force which was a big point of contention between Qui-Gon and the Jedi Council.

[@fredlusyk6741]

《"FREEWILL" by: RUSH》 🎶You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice🎶 🎶If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice🎶 🎶You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill🎶 🎶I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose Freewill🎶 ~Lyrics by: Neil Peart (maybe "The Phantom Menace" was Fear itself...?) ...the way i see it... ~GEORGE LUCAS is The Force!!! & STAR WARS is a combination of Buddhism & Christianity...?? ~Dukkha ("Suffering") is The Dark Side...? (i think The Dark Side was meant to represent "the Darkest Aspects of Man", not "Nature"...?) ...& Awakening from Dukkha is The Light Side...? ("The Force Awakened" when George realized Dizney discarded his ideas for "The Sequel Trilogy!!!") ~The Whills are our Freewill (FreeWhill)...? ...& The Midi-Chlorians are our Flesh ("Crude Matter")...? ~Qui-Gon Jinn was Joseph... ~Shmi Skywalker was Mary... ~Anakin Skywalker was Jesus... ~Darth Maul was The Devil... ~The Emperor was The Snake... ~& Yoda was The GOAT (Greatest Of All Time)... 《Luminous Beings are we, not this Crude Matter》 ~Yoda 👽 🖖 🤖 ~Dave Filoni is John the Apostle ~Kathleen Kennedy is Judas Iscariot ~& Bob Iger is Beelzebob 《May George be with you》

[@jonkraft7428]

I can't get on board with the notion of "the will of the Force." As I have always understood it, the Force is an energy field. Thus, the Force has no will of its own.

[@cmohr6998]

“The will of the force” as I see it is the same as harmony with nature in our own universe. Too much selfish action “the dark side” and we might end all life.

[@minakat369]

I always thought the Will of the Force to be akin to the homeostasic functions that keep a body healthy and alive. An auto immune disease would akin to the dark side, where instead of healing the body, the immune system attacks healthy cells, a corruption of its purpose-- just as a dark side corrupts the balance of the force.

[@jonkraft7428]

@@cmohr6998 Will and harmony are not the same thing. The "will of the Force" suggests that the Force has a consciousness and that the Force desires for things to go a certain way. But an energy field has no consciousness and it doesn't desire anything. The same could be said of nature in our universe. Nature has no consciousness. If there is a perturbation in one part of nature, other parts respond. But nature, itself, has no will or desire.

[@Archeantus_]

In my opinion, the Republic Era Jedi were causing imbalance in the Force as well, but not the same way the Sith were. As it was mentioned, they had become servants of the Republic instead of the Force. So, to a degree, they needed to be destroyed like the Sith. With Anakin's fall, he destroys the Jedi. With his redemption, he destroys the Sith. He truly wrought balance in the Force. It became new to Luke and his students. Free of the dogma that crippled the old order, free of the influence of the Sith.

[@smukarch]

Really it's a good question about is the dark side needed at all. Almost all human societies in their long live thrue history comes to time of stagnation. Great disturbances often needed for evolve and prosper. I think there is alot of better ways for 'self improvement', but does the Force know any other than a war with everything that unbalance it? Really fascinating thought to think about.

[@zacharyclark3693]

Hey Thor, Qui-Gon Jinn is the epitome of a Jedi, right? He tries to listen to the Force and follow its will, even when it goes against the will of the Jedi Council or the Republic. We see in Tales of the Jedi Dooku doing this as well. He recognized that the Jedi were not listening to the will of the Force, and we see him trying to do the right thing even when it goes against the will of the Council and the Republic. So how is it that Qui-Gon goes on to be the most true Jedi of the prequels, while his master falls to the Dark Side? How did Qui-Gon avoid Dooku’s fate, and how did Dooku miss what Qui-Gon figured out? Now an unrelated comment about people saying there needs to be evil in order for us to know what good is. I don’t know if this is what people mean, but how I take “evil has to exist in order for there to be good” is that the possibility or choice between good and evil always exists. But that doesn’t mean evil has to be happening somewhere for good to happen somewhere else. You can have an ideal world where everyone does good, or one where everyone does bad. Good and evil will still exist (or be a real concept) in those worlds even if no one chooses it. Because one is a possibility the other must naturally be a possibility as well, as the opposite or lack of the other. So in life, good and evil exist. Good and evil are always options because we have free will (You can’t have the concept of good without the concept of evil). But we do not need a balance of good or bad deeds to make good still be good, and evil still be evil. (Does that make sense?)

[@lukejochem]

Yes, the dark side is necessary. Life and death, ying and yang, day and night, two sides of a coin. Darkness is necessary for when light is seen as the villain. Just look toward the next HOT sunny day as your example, how many are seeking shelter under shade?

[@dereklopez9060]

Hey Thor, now that there's another trailer for The Acolyte, I'd like to ask. What is up with the Lightsabers on Disney Plus lately? They look so bad compared to the movies. Also, Happy 80th Birthday to George Lucas 🎂.

[@cmohr6998]

100% agree… I very much prefer the the way they animated lightsabers in the OT and prequels to the new props they use on set. The glow they produce might be more “realistic” but I’m not watching Star Wars for realism.

[@SuperLuis225]

The too much light side question is literally the plot of superman. Lex Luther hates that superman will make humans weak by solving their problems for them and people will become complacent. It's an interesting idea but in star wars, despite jedi teachings, you're always gonna need everyday people to keep the galaxy moving and their lives wouldn't necessarily be improved by bring a force user

[@AlexBrogan96]

Hey Thor. I hear a lot of Star Wars creators talking about how balance in the force is the absence of the dark side , since that’s how it seemed it worked back in the day. However, doesn’t the introduction of the Mortis Gods make it seem like George (and Filoni) were changing that? Especially since it’s starting to seem like Anakin being the chosen one maybe has something to do with him taking the place of the father? (See Ahsoka ep. 5/8). In the view of balance = no dark side, why is the daughter not an example of perfect balance?

[@nickcalderon2637]

Thor has several videos on his views of the Mortis Arc, but the main thing is that Thor thinks the Mortis Arc does more to show why Equal Light and Dark isn’t Balance, than the opposite.

[@cloudmaster182]

The light and the dark together are constantly fighting, there is no balance. The fighting spirals out of control bc the dark side can not be kept in check. The balance is destroyed by the actions of the dark side

[@nickcalderon2637]

@@cloudmaster182 Yes, precisely that. But unfortunately many people across the Internet keep using the Mortis Arc as an example of “True Balance”.

[@AlexBrogan96]

@@nickcalderon2637 I agree with this interpretation in many ways, but I’m not strictly convinced it was the intention. It also makes me wonder what Filoni’s intention was with creating Bendu. What is he meant to represent and what is his role regarding the concept of “balance”?

[@nickcalderon2637]

@@AlexBrogan96 Alright, first and foremost, you’re the first person I’ve seen who rather than double down on the Mortis Gods being “True” Balance, instead say that it was probably the original intent, so thank you. Anyways, I’ll say this, whether it was their intent or not, is different from how it ultimately went down, as even if it was intended to show what “True” Balance is, it all gets ruined by the Son attempting to break out and kill the Father and Daughter. Meaning it’s still ultimately the Dark Side that screws everything up. As for the Bendu, Thor also has a few videos on them, but his main point is that while the Bendu are Grey, they also aren’t exactly Balance, but rather Apathy. The Bendu don’t care about what happens to the Galaxy, at all. They don’t care about making other people’s lives worse, they also however don’t care about making them better. They only help if it means they’ll be left alone sooner than later. The Bendu have no ambitions whatsoever, or any desires for anything, they only care about being left alone, so they can return to their slumber. If anyone disturbs their Slumber for too long, or they start telling the Bendu what they don’t want to hear, they lash out at EVERYONE. They just don’t care. The Fandom sees the Grey Jedi as people who can use the Light and Dark Sides of the Force. The Bendu however, show us what being Grey TRULY means, they’re pretty much what a lot of people keep accusing the Jedi of, unfeeling, detached, and apathetic people. Thus, as a certain Woman from another Game in the Legends continuity once said, “Apathy is Death”.

[@Ughahaven]

Hey Thor, What are the chances that the reason that Sabine could use the force, or at least use it so strongly, in the finale was because of WHERE they were? That they were in the nightsister tower, a place that was strong with the force. Maybe it was designed to channel the planet's force and that's why they stored their dead there? To keep the souls linked to the bodies for easy reanimation. That could mean that Sabine IS weak in the force and perhaps she could have an arc where she now realizes that she didn't do it herself but then trains to try and recapture that power. That could be a real motivation for a heel turn for Sabine to the dark side, which would spark a very interesting storyline involving Ahsoka fearing it was her fault, just like she was afraid of to begin with.

[@KrazyKryptonian]

Hey Thor, what say you? Who should be Anakin’s Force ghost in ROTJ? Sebastian Shaw or Hayden Christensen? My vote is for Shaw.

[@miragewizard]

Hey Thor, I have a question: if The Acolyte is 100 years before The Phantom Menace, and therefore closer to the height of the Jedi, or the Jedi at the best and brightest in the High Republic, then The Acolyte should be, by default, the best, or the strongest that we've seen of the Jedi, since its closer on the timeline to the height of their glory?

[@alexdeghost2729]

Such a W video

[@realgamers472]

I think the Force knows what's gonna happen or at the very least all possible outcomes. This is why there are doors to the past in the world between worlds and echoes of events that haven't happened yet and destiny is very much a strong thing in it. Free will and choice is still a thing but in some cases the Force has a plan for certain individuals and thus protects them and moves them towards whatever goalpost it has in mind. Many characters should've died but didn't because it was part of the Force's will. Like when Chirrut walked into crossfire in Rogue One and didn't get hit until after he pulled the lever. He wasn't using the Force there the Force was using him

[@Thomas_G_Butler]

I see Balance in Star Wars through the lens of Aristotle's Golden Mean...every Virtue represents a Balance between two opposing Vices. Eg., Courage is a balance between Cowardice and Foolhardy Action. Likewise, Charity has to balance a lack of compassion for those in need with taking away a person's agency by doing too much for them. The Jedi maintained institutions that supported their mission...a necessary good, that avoided the moral entropy that comes with generational drift. But then, in the Prequel Era, they came to value supporting institutions and rules too much, which led them from that moral balance point, a balance point that could only be maintained through an ongoing connection to the Living Force...

[@vintifada7115]

Thor is wrong on this too: the prequel Jedi are not different from the Jedi in Lucas’ mind and the story beats don’t condemn the Jedi or say they went too far or anything like that. It revolves around Anakin not learning the lessons. If there’s anything they’re “wrong” about, Qui Gon and the council are both right and wrong. Anakin is too attached to the world to be trained. He is also a very powerful human and the chosen one. See any George Lucas interview about his intentions even if you think the movies and the clone wars doesn’t convey that he doesn’t fault the council

[@thorskywalker]

Who said the council is the blame for the fall of Anakin? Certainly not me. His fall is on him. He made the choice. I only said they (The Council) had become so dogmatic they missed or ignored a clear sign from The Force itself (the coming of The Chosen One) that things were out of balance. Furthermore the main reason they were against training him was mainly because "the code forbids it". And what exactly was the alternative at that point, especially with the Sith reemerging at the exact same time? Just let the most powerful force user ever seen (according to midi chlorian count ) go off and do... what exactly? Get found by the Sith, which he of course was anyway? All I'm mainly saying in this video is I think it's quite clear that Qui-Gon was meant to find Anakin, and if he hadn't been killed by Maul and trained Anakin, everything is much, much different. That's why it was called Duel of the Fates; the fate of Anakin and the galaxy was on the line.

[@vintifada7115]

@@thorskywalker If his fall is on him then denying his training was valid. The code forbids it is never countered unequivocally. The code and the rules are not shown to be wrong. A more interesting conclusion is the council and Qui Gon are both right and both wrong. It is not a matter of the prequel Jedi being out of step with reality or the light side but a matter of the chosen one not choosing the right path which results in a conflict when two sides value two separate things that are valid. The Jedi were all murdered that is true and so the Jedi were right about Anakin. The sith were also murdered and so Qui Gon was also right about Anakin. I know you don’t say therefore it was destiny to kill the Jedi that’s silly, but it is a reality of Anakin’s life. Also the Sith may not know about Anakin per se. The Plagueis novel is not George’s world. What’s also not George’s world is Luke’s New Order in Legends with Jedi marriage and less rules or something. It never was. George never cared for the concept of canon and so he let people play in the sandbox he built but he maintained the movie world was his and reserved the right to contradict or use anything in the EU. The song being called Duel of the Fates is nothing more than a name for a battle between good and evil. The explanation is a Filoni creation. I can’t recall where but it’s there’s a behind the scenes explanation for the duel of fates it’s just light vs dark. If Qui Gon lives that isn’t going to be the entire reason Anakin doesn’t fall to the dark side. If you like I can point you to a tumblr page that goes over all this and more. David Talks Star Wars

[@bobthebonzo]

@@vintifada7115 “Duel of the Fates” is pretty specific to just be a randomly selected epic title for a theme. It’s also based on Sanskrit poetry that regards a physical transient battle as well as a battle that will last beyond that and cause dread. Probably won’t find it on tumblr.

[@thorskywalker]

@vintfada First of all, I talked about the true meaning of Duel of the Fates on this channel long before Filoni ever said what he did. And actually, I was kinda shocked when Filoni gave his explanation a few years back and some people were surprised by it because it seems rather obvious what the name implies. And, even if you want to argue Lucas just picked a generic name for the battle/song, it doesn't change the fact that the fate of the Galaxy is on the line. If Qui-Gon doesn't die he's going to train Anakin differently than the freshly knighted Obi-Wan did, and there's a really, really, really good chance Anakin doesn't end up the same way he did under the tutelage of Kenobi. I mean, the fact that he goes from this altruistic little boy at the end of The Phantom Menace to (whatever you'd like to call him) in Attack of the Clones says his training has not gone well. Basically, Qui-Gon wasn't wrong when he says he was meant to find and train Anakin... and him being denied that destiny or 'fate' changed everything.

[@Star4wars1]

To anyone who would listen but i hate how disney has manipulated how the nightsisters "magik" is used. from clone wars season 6 the 2 part episodes with mace windu and jar jar, someone is taking these force sensitive people and it turns out its a cult that worships mother talzan and it shows them draining the living force out of them, it turns into that green magik smoke we see the nightsisters use, so to me from seeing that epsiodes its trying to explain the nightsisters are just using the force a different way from jedi or sith but the "magik" is just the force or thats how i see it.

[@GrievousReborn]

I too think it's because they keep to themselves they don't try to conquer other planets or the Galaxy

[@MedalionDS9]

The Future is not set in stone... there is no ultimate outcome or Fate (despite something called Duel of the Fates)... things can be changed. That's why people need to be trained and to defend and save make things come to fruition... all the Force can do is make something happen but not dictate how the future comes to that ultimate conclusion... Force Users can do with the power to make something come true or not.

[@caleboch8181]

Hey Thor Lately I have been seeing that giving the force a will was a mistake as it makes this universe deterministic and that everything that happens plays out as it was meant to which I guess I can see how one can come to the conclusion based on what is seen but I don't think that was the intention. do you think that this is a legitimate interpritation especially now adays with Disney more or less making it that way thus making Kriea correct in her assertion that the force is an evil god that needs to be killed and free will doesn't exist even though the very fact she can even attempt such a thing should indicate that it does? IDK this whole thing hurts my head. let me know your thoughts on this matter.

[@carlbryan1989]

Hey Thor, if Anakin restored balance to the Force and fulfilled the Chosen One prophecy, how would you interpret the return and re-death of Palpatine in the sequel trilogy? By the way, I am not asking this question to challenge existing canon, as I believe Anakin to be the true and only Chosen One, I’m just curious what your take on the situation and the crapshow Disney created.

[@zigurdur92]

Hey, thor was Han Solo in the dark side, when he shot first?

[@macwelch8599]

Very interesting question at the very beginning of this video

[@morningtalkmotivation7986]

thank you!

[@macwelch8599]

@@morningtalkmotivation7986 You’re very welcome

[@vetarlittorf1807]

I think you misunderstood the Kreia example. She’s not saying that you shouldn't be compassionate, she’s saying that blind charity can rob people of the chance for self-improvement. So she’s really saying that the "how" is just as important when you help people as the "why" is.

[@JoRoq1]

Giving a man a fish vs. teaching him how to fish for himself. The former addresses only an immediate need. The latter addresses the long-term need.

[@thorskywalker]

That's exactly what I talked about the other day, how compassion can have it's downside when people rely on it and don't improve. Even still, the Kreia example is a bad one because it has nothing to do with the poor man's ability to choose to better himself. It's simply the greed/selfishness of another robbing him. The poor man could've just as easily earned the money through hard work and been robbed all the same.

[@saberiandream316]

@@thorskywalker How can you talk like you're an expert on Kreia? Didn't you once say you haven't played KOTOR 2 yet?

[@thorskywalker]

I played it when it first came out but due to the fact I was working way too many hours at the time, not to mention busy with other things in life as well, I didn't get a chance to really get into the game. Took me months to finish it and there long pauses or breaks. That said, I can still look at the example given and say it's not a great example. It wasn't about compassion leading to negative consequences, it was about greed leading to them; the greed of those who beat up and took the poor man's money that he had been given to him. As I said, the man could've just as easily earned the money and experienced the same result.

[@saberiandream316]

@@thorskywalker Oh I see.

[@CallumQuinnCreates]

The Council not being willing to see the chosen one right in front of their eyes has an interesting parallel to the religious leaders of the Jews in Jesus day. Those men added to the laws god gave Israel and put a great and unnecessary burden upon god’s people. Essentially putting their “codes” above even the will of God and refusing to see his son, despite Jesus fulfillment of millennia old prophecies. Lucas has made it clear he took a lot of inspiration from various religions while creating Star Wars, so it’s quite possible this parallel was intended.

[@Dazzle_Novak_]

There is no balance between "being healthy" and "being ill", you don't need illness to balance your organism - perfect health *is* the balance. That's it.

[@captainsnapple]

Are you going to cover that report that George Lucas reportedly loved the Kenobi series??

[@saberiandream316]

It's a secondhand account from a known bully. I don't trust it.

[@mrblank-zh1xy]

Qui-Gon was The Jedi.

[@MRDLT00]

5:54 And it only cost billions and billions of lives over decades of war to “achieve” balance. Good work “The Will of the Force” 🤣🤣🤣

[@ShayGamerD3]

Galaxy in Star Wars is literally inhabited by trillions of people, and there are only 10K Jedi. I'm sure there are multiple local communities on various planets which use the Force in their own ways, but they don't pose any danger to the Galaxy as a whole. Jedi are not inquisitors, they're not actively hunting and destroying any Force users, so they live them alone.

[@MCsCreations]

I need to disagree a little bit with you about the dark side, Thor. Because every Jedi has its own dark side, the arc where Yoda learns from Qui-Gon and the Wills shows it. So, yeah, balance is the absence of the Sith, but not the dark side. The dark side is always there - and each individual needs to deal with his own dark side. I think that's what the Mortis arc shows. The triad represents one, like with Christianity, really. You can't destroy your dark side, but you can - and should - control it. And, of course, not fall into it.

[@bobthebonzo]

⬆️That is balance as described by Lucas. Not the absence of the dark side, the balancing of it. Eradicating the dark side has never been described as balance by GL. If it were, that would’ve been clipped a million times by now

[@thorskywalker]

Sure, everyone (even in the real world and in Star Wars) has some sort of inner dark side (or the potential to do bad things) that they should not embrace. However, my point was that there is no need for a collective dark side or evil in the world/galaxy; no need for some sort of nebulous evil Force or for people doing bad things to each other. It serves no purpose which is why people should reject it in the first place, as the Yoda arc points out.

[@MCsCreations]

@thorskywalker Oh, in that case I agree. But the dark side itself is going to be there, always. It's like that saying... "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance". Or something like that.

[@CitizenScott]

What even is the dark side?

[@mrblank-zh1xy]

The force has a single point of generation, the living force and a single point of use, the cosmic force. If someone chooses to bend the energy of the cosmic force to **make** it do things, then this produces a back pressure called the dark side. Negative emotions and negative experiences feed back on each other in a runaway loop. The dark side is angry and hateful, feeding forever on passions. The Jedi and Jedi powers cooperate with the force like a river rafter cooperates with the river. Dark side powers make the river do your bidding. So the Dark side itself is sort of the response to doing so There is only one Force but two emanations.

[@eliezerrodriguez5863]

No one should be asking you anything Thor !! The only person who's qualified to answer questions would be Pablo Hildalgo or dave filoni!!!

[@saberiandream316]

Dave Filoni knows less about Star Wars than you think. He's certainly no lore master, the way he's tried to spin himself over the last sixteen years. He constantly gets trivial lore details wrong. Like the Dathomir witches. His version of the Dathomir witches are Nightsisters, dark-siders only. I doubt he even knows that good Dathomir witches even _exist._ SMH

[@zufalllx]

Nightsisters don't cause imbalance because nightsisters don't exist. because they're stupid Because Headcanon 👍👍

[@saberiandream316]

They do exist, unless you mean Filoni's Nightsisters don't exist, which I can get onboard with, as they are grossly misrepresented from how they were in the EU.

[@Gred0]

Yoda wasn't right about everything around the force and its will. I think it's too difficult to say if the dark side of the force is necessary or not.

[@kennyholmes5196]

There isn't really any Dark Side of the Force. There is only The Force, and the ways in which it is used. Calling it Dark or Light is misleading.

[@ahnok2855]

and... you would know that?

[@pressonc]

I'm sorry, but you are just objectively incorrect in your definition of balance in the Force. Balance in health isn't simply a lack of major disease; it's an equilibrium of neutrality, where all things are held in, well, balance. The same is true of the Force; balance isn't just the absence of major dark side users or the abundance of light side users. Balance in the Force is an equilibrium and neutrality of forces; it is a circumstance where extremism of any kind is rare or absent. The most balanced characters in all of Star Wars are those who strike a balance in the middle, not being extreme in their tendencies either to "light" or "dark". Qui Gon, Ahsoka, Ezra Bridger, Jolee Bindo, the returned Revan and the exile all strike that balance in the middle, finding balance by not taking an extreme, fighting their own battle against the evil of the dark side while also recognizing that the self-righteous proclamations about the light side are nothing more than legalistic self-congratulations. The way to balance is by recognizing the dark seed in one's self and endeavoring to fight against it for the best of those around us; it's not by being some paragon on a hilltop, virtue-signaling our superiority. And that's also why you are decidedly wrong about Grey Jedi. They aren't those who dabble in the dark side; they are the truly balanced ones in the Star Wars galaxy who embrace the nuances of the Force and recognize that, when one goes too far to either direction, the effect is virtually indistinguishable to outsiders, because extremism in any direction eventually leads to the same place, despotic oppression.

[@vintifada7115]

The point of Star Wars is to convey a moral lesson. Selflessness above selfishness and to show what it looks like. If you are exploring what too much selflessness looks like in Star Wars you are missing the point. Star Wars is originally, at its core, and when it’s at its best for middle schoolers and high schoolers. If you are complicating that central lesson you are doing them and the franchise a disservice

[@thorskywalker]

The idea that Star Wars shouldn't be a gateway into larger discussion about life, good vs. evil or wherever else it may take you is one of the strangest and dumbest arguments I've ever heard. Sorry, but this is a big L take. Hell, the whole 'point' of Star Wars according to Lucas was to reinvigorate spirituality in the young; it was for them to think about bigger picture things.

[@vintifada7115]

@@thorskywalker The key is “in Star Wars.” When in-universe the good guys are chastised for being too good this is muddying the waters. This is where you get the somewhat popular “grey Jedi” crap or “equal numbers of sith and Jedi is balanced” and now people think it’s good to be part selfish part selfless. The franchise and central message has already been muddled and the franchise has been done a disservice bc people think it’s the jedis fault-that the prequel Jedi are some special evil. I think even you agree with that. I don’t think you disagree you simply think I’m saying “don’t discuss morality” period. Keep the central message in-universe, start a convo, but I’d always refer back to the central theme at the end of any conversation with someone

[@vintifada7115]

@@thorskywalker I threw you a like too. Thanks for responding

[@saberiandream316]

I always HATE when you talk about the Nightsisters, because you talk about Filoni's butchering of the Nightsisters, even though he stole that from the EU. The Nightsisters aren't the only Dathomir witches, but I doubt Filoni knows they even _exist._ SMH

[@thorskywalker]

I mentioned in this video that they're not the only ones on Dathomir; even talked about the original version over on my other channel. Nevertheless, most people only know the Clone Wars version for better or worse.

[@stevena.7022]

Does any fan really need a metaphysical canon? Various authors and characters have had competing takes or philosophies. I don't give any more credence to Yoda's or George's over your fan theories. These ''the chosen one will bring balance." folks might be nutters.