THOUGHT DAUGHTER: reading aesthetic or femcel rebrand?

[@accordingtoalina]

Download Love & Pies here: pixly.go2cloud.org/SH4Rj Play until level 3, to receive a free gift to your in-game inbox within seven days.Thanks to Love & Pies for sponsoring!

[@sighswoons]

TikTok/IG commodification of human behaviours and interests into a brand/trend /aesthetic to display to the public for clicks never fails to amaze me. Hopefully the next trend will be the life enjoyer

[@accordingtoalina]

life enjoyer aesthetic, let's make it happen

[@monicacreator3168]

The first culprit was pinterest

[@madmax77779]

ohhh how come ​@@monicacreator3168

[@osheridan]

No because that will be toxicified too

[@bexiexz]

life enjoyer! yes

[@sylviaplathfan]

This trend unsettles me a lot as someone who can 100% be identified as a "thought daughter" because I love to read and write and have struggled a lot with feeling misunderstood. I feel like everything women do now including reading, writing, feeling and thinking has become an aesthetic that we need others to know about and perform to show that we are intelligent and attractive. Reading and writing as a woman is subversive and there is something to be said for celebrating our freedom to do those things.. but the "thought daughter" trend feels to me a lot like women trying to show that they are more interesting and different to other girls who apparently don't have as meaningful thoughts. In the end though it isn't really hurting anybody and I am glad that misunderstood young women can find a community to bond with each other.

[@PeepersonCreedo]

I feel like that’s sorta just the performative nature of social media in general. I don’t think this is a phenomenon exclusive to the reading community or girls or anything like that. I know plenty of people who don’t make reading a massive component of their personality, in contrast to people who make fitness and the gym their entire identity. So I don’t think it’s really just ‘women’ I think everyone is guilty of this.

[@lawliet6910]

Well-said and I feel the same 😅

[@RealGlowup]

Damn. This is a great observation. Thank you for sharing. Wow.

[@roundcatbed]

Does anyone else start to feel increasingly overwhelmed by the insane amount of aesthetics and the pressure to put yourself in one of these boxes? It’s almost like everyone is a carbon copy of their chosen aesthetic with a strict definition. Why do we do this to ourselves, and will it go away?

[@katfujioka212]

I did, until I quit social media. Everything stops being an aesthetic when you let yourself enjoy what you enjoy rather than trying to fit into some rich TikToker’s “totally original” box lmao

[@Aigra]

"Aesthetics" have pretty much replaced subcultures and because it's all happening online the trend cycles are so much faster. And of course it's a lot more fractured too. You won't be able to look back at 2023 and say "that was the dark-strawberry-daughter-core-summer era, like you can look back at the 1980s and say that this was the era of Punk becoming more mainstream.

[@gaycapone]

I've been on a binge of video essays, and from what I gathered, people feel urged to put themselves in boxes and participate in trends because they start spending more time online so they kind of start lacking the sense of community they would have if they participated more in “real life”. And so by being a part of a trend, they somewhat regain that sense of community. Ofc I'm not an expert, I'm just repeating what i heard. It feels to me like more of a “chronically online” thing, though. if it starts bothering you a lot, the best thing you can do is take a break from socials. This probably depends on where you're from, but at least where i live, if i said to someone IRL “im reading the secret history right now!” their answer wouldn't be “oh thats so dark academia thought daughter core” theyd most likely just say “oh cool whats it about” or “oh i know that book”

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

I think it must have some ties to hyper-consumerism, mass-production and industries like fast fashion. Big companies can keep up with rapidly shifting trends because they produce products constantly using cheap materials. Small companies cannot keep up, and they are bought out or go under, reducing competition and forcing their workers to accept worse jobs at those large corporations. Those workers then can't afford to buy better quality goods so they're forced to buy crap instead from companies like the ones they now work for. It's all about rapid, mass consolidation of wealth at the top.

[@weirdlittlesister]

I never feel any pressure to put myself into any of these

[@azzyntll]

People don't enjoy the things they claim to enjoy as much as they enjoy telling the internet that they enjoy it

It is not to do a thing but to be seen doing a thing, not to live a life but be seen as living one.

[@chairmanmeow958]

We are in such a dark place that thinking is now considered to be quirky and unique. You really cannot make this stuff up.

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

I'd rather this than total anti-intellectualism. If we have to make it an "aesthetic" so be it. We'd rather it wasn't necessary, of course. But as you said, that's how bad things have gotten.

[@deletedflame8424]

I don't think that this specifically is anything new and worrying. In my experience it's kind of always been like that. So many people have gone through a thought process, especially in their teens where they thought that they were really special and different for having individual opinions, thoughts and interests while everyone around them is vapid, shallow and unintelligent. This kind of stuff resurges every few years.

[@lifaen]

I don't think most of "thought daughters" think they are quirky and unique, that's just label what other people put on them when they see this trend. I think the original meaning of it was just someone who overthinks and is introverted, quiet, reader, which is something that isn't unique, but for some people (loud neurotypical extroverts) weird enough, that people can bully you in school or workplace for that.

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

@@lifaen oh great, another excuse for people to bully neurodivergent women. We never said we were special, but that doesn't stop them from saying "look how awful she is, she thinks she's better than everyone else." No matter what we do they'll always come up with some reason to treat us like we're wrong and unwelcome.

[@lifaen]

@@Larissa-eo3pt Yeah, true

[@АннаВасюкова-м1ъ]

It is so bizzare... why is reading, listening to music and going to therapy a core 😭 Also I really like your top ❤

[@Name..........]

Its not

[@nanametafora3091]

Honestly, being in the internet lately can only be described as "exhausting". Everything is an aesthetic or a trend, no matter how mundane the action. It sometimes feels that we have become so dependent on social media and people's perception of us that we can no longer express ourselves the way we desire without having to make it a performance. Just existing is no longer an option, it has to be executed and labeled in a certain way. No wonder a lot of people feel depressed or hopeless about relationships, life and the future.

[@zoebrugg7594]

@@nanametafora3091 Maybe we should collectively get off the internet, get out and normalize hanging out at a library, coffee shop, parks…. Anything to get off TikTok basically.

[@beewest5704]

Ppl stopped having personalities now this is what we are left with.

[@lifaen]

I see it the opposite way. Finally the main aesthetic isn't being rich or elegant or famous or something, now we're embracing normal lives that people have. Without being in a subculture, which is nowadays kinda hard to be in, with the loss of third places.

[@franciscomap75]

@nanametafora3091 you hit the nail in the head. The way I see it, anything personal that becomes performance is hollowed out. Trends are for people without personality. Btw: being yourself is not about showing it to others. Btw2: a community where you don’t meet the people in real life is not really a community no matter what this new generation tries to make it so

[@lifaen]

​@@franciscomap75 1) Maybe they are targeting people without personality, but you can enjoy a trend even if you have big personality. 2) Being yourself is not about showing it to others - but it can be. It depends what you want do to in life. 3) Community is still community even if you know the people only online. It's amazing that now we can chat with people all over the world with the same interests and most of us just don't have the money or energy to travel all over the world just to meet up. I had bigger sense of community online than I ever had in real life. But it really depends on what you mean. "Community" has very broad meaning, you can say "lgbtq+ community" or "tiktok community" but that are people who aren't friends between each other, they just have the same interest. But there are also online communities where the people are talking everyday or very often at least, friendship are forming there and some of them will even meet up in real life or go to some convention together. It's so cool for introverts or autistic people cus this is way easier way to socialize and otherwise they wouldn't have friends. Also I'm sure that there are irl communities who are called "community" but they really just share one interest together and otherwise they don't talk to each other, maybe there's even some drama and some people hate each other sooooooooooooooo

[@NoMoreCrumbs]

Do these people never get tired of being tricked into consumerism under the guise of following trends? It's all so tiresome

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

The ones who come up with these trends sell much more than they buy.

[@RuthvenMurgatroyd]

It's not even a guise, it's just not blatant which is enough to fool most consumers.

[@bexiexz]

exhausting

[@LuxVi7]

There’s actually a trend now called underconsumption core 😂 Can’t make this stuff up!

[@bexiexz]

@@LuxVi7 omg!

[@Smw006]

Thought Daughter is the new Tumblr Sad Girl?

[@ezzb]

It's alwas a rebrand/variation of the Tumblr sad girl, that was a rebrand of emo, that was a rebrand of the early 00's punk girl, that was a rebrand of the grunge girl... Is always the sad/nostalgia/ we're misunderstood thing. .

[@ezzb]

It's always a identity defined by books, movies and music, that are extremely popular/ classics and the feeling of being misunderstood and isolated

[@clara-dm7]

We are so obsessed on being different and yet fit in that we cant stop creating little "aesthetics" to feel part of something ;-; and thats that ;-;

[@TF-lk6co]

I'm probably too old (and male) to be viewing this channel, but I enjoy the insightful and eloquent presentations of a completely foreign world.

[@accordingtoalina]

ahhh I'm so glad to have you here!!

[@gabby222themoon]

It’s a good thing to venture into new perspectives

[@TF-lk6co]

@@gabby222themoon Absolutely. I doubt I'll venture onto Tiktok, but hopefully Alina will continue keeping me informed :)

[@rustyford2790]

You’re like a tour guide explaining the language and culture on various planets you take us to.

[@ackyfacky4332]

Same, man. I love channels like this that give a perspective on things I'd otherwise have no clue about. It's really interesting and I feel it helps me broaden my own perspective.

[@anitaraggini7695]

Can't believe they turned literally being a person with basic artistic interests into a trend to oblige by if you want to be recognized as smart

[@anitaraggini7695]

What happened to just being a person?

[@hannabio2770]

12:32 - "I understand that some people are annoying... But they can be annoying and intelligent". THIS!! This is golden! Thank you. 👏👏

[@malinkteegan2906]

i think the problem, as with most of these tiktok trends and phenomenons, is that people take any harmless, silly joke, run with it and completely blow it out of proportion. I remember people actually already making a connection between the phonetic similarities between thot and thought over a year ago already and when i first saw people making videos about it online i thought it was funny because i could relate. I still think it started out as more a less a joke that was made by and targeted towards other girls with a certain personality trait, that is introspection, but it just fell victim to the relentless commodification of anything that is happening on tiktok. i fear nothing can ever just be on that app, instead everything needs to be marketed, sorted into a new or already existing aesthetics, pitted against others or used as a tool to further ones own agenda. As many have already said in the comments, it feels so tiring to constantly have everything sorted into boxes.ä, because not everything needs to be put in relation to something else. Maybe the thought daughter isn’t a sad girl, coquette girl, femcel, downtown girl, or the next psychological case study. maybe she doesn’t try to subvert anything or put herself up against other girls. Maybe she doesn’t like Fiona Apple and thinks The Virgin Suicides was boring. Maybe she is just a girl that once spent an 4 hour train ride only looking out the window listening to gracie abrams and then made a joke on tiktok about it. Maybe it’s not all that serious

[@maria_____.]

I fear this lack of identity is a consequence of spending too much time online. These young people are constantly swarmed with tons of content and influence from every direction, they don't have the time to form their own opinions, likes, dislikes etc. So they latch onto any interest or trait and turn it into their entire personality. They can't just be Normal about it because they have no other interests outside of what social media tells them to like. Then that aesthetic becomes too widespread and doesn't make them unique anymore, no worries - they just repackage it into a new one!! It's like they want to fit in and stand out at the same time, it's so bizarre.

[@ezzb]

It's always a identity defined by books, movies and music, that are extremely popular/ classics and the feeling of being misunderstood and insolated.

[@mauve9266]

It used to kind of baffle me that the references were always so famous cos i assumed some aspect of these aesthetics was supposed to signal like nicheness or individuality, maybe at times superiority, stemming from the obscurity of the media they consume but then I realized you can't fully signal these things if there's little to no understanding of the reference and it's cultural significance. Like there is actually a territory that's too weird and niche where you're unable to adequately signify how weird and niche you are.

[@deadgirl2024]

So much of the media being white as hell feels like it relates somewhat. The aesthetic puts emphasis on intellectual curiosity and weirdness/nicheness, but never really moves past beyond the western norms and exploring any other ideas, art, or experiences beyond the western canon.

[@MariaJoseRozas]

It's especially sad because teenage years are very much about defining oneself through the things they love, especially if as children they grew up misunderstood and isolated. It feels like even that stage of identity has been commodified for decades.

[@marcelazn]

i hope a "touching grass" aesthetic goes viral soon

[@bbyjirl]

I feel like a lot of these feminine personality aesthetic trends kind of start out as women being playful and goofy, but then women are mocked so much for their interests and self expression that they feel the need to defend their expression and legitimize it by making it more of a serious thing.

[@JenDunndot]

i was thinking about something similar too and I would add that there could be women who take it very seriously and others who are just kind of playing along with these trends because "women" are not a monolith, like, there are all sorts of women out there. But typically when some women are critised, that criticism is extended to all women, so it's normal that they would then get defensive even if they were initially taking part in the trend just for fun

[@kallistoindrani5689]

What is a thought daughter? That is indeed my question and I'm about to find out. 😂😂

[@PadmavathiKotla]

Yess

[@readbyruby]

I think there’s been an almost dangerous branding of aesthetics defined by labeling yourself as a type of woman. Men aren’t really labeled as “book boys” etc, they are allowed to just be readers. I notice that most trends or aesthetics that are coming up tend to label you as a daughter, sister, girlfriend, or having to say that you are some kind of girl instead of just being able to enjoy what you enjoy.

[@accordingtoalina]

There was an article about this in The Cut at the end of last year. Basically it was questioning the way last year was the year of the “girl” trends: tomato girl, girlblogger, girl math, girl dinner etc. and the author was basically asking why is it that grown women are holding on to girlhood in this way? It is because youth is so desirable for women? Is it that they perceive being a girl as having less responsibility than being a woman? It’s an interesting read if you want to look it up

[@damanipage5990]

All these new aesthetics are overwhelming

[@ninipanini11]

Yesss it stresses me the fuck out

[@Vs31751]

It’s so interesting that all your videos around aesthetics, like e.g. this thought daughter trend, seem to always focus on being “intellectual” in the sense of being well-read, into literature etc. I wonder if people and especially women feel like they need to perform more in the field of humanities as opposed to STEM. It feels like there is a certain “validity” to you being “smart” or “intelligent” when you are in STEM or hard sciences as opposed the humanities (of course there are immense challenges of proving your good enough as a female scientist in those fields as well!). But in humanities (philosophy, literature, etc.) you have to “prove more” that you are “smart” so maybe in general activities associated with it - even if they are just a hobby - (at least feel like they) require more “performance of being smart” to be taken more seriously (even if it can have the opposite effect as well like you mentioned). At least I haven’t seen any videos about aesthetics for STEM scientists or people being interested let’s say in chemistry in their free time. (but I also am not on TikTok or any social media for that matter and only get a glimpse of the content on those apps through KZbin commentary videos so maybe it’s just not something that the creators that I watch talk about)

[@accordingtoalina]

Yessss I’ve been thinking about this a lot, especially since there have been so many conversations about useful degrees vs. useless ones during the last decade of conservative government in the UK. There does seem to be a tendency from humanities ppl in general (and a lot of those degrees are predominantly pursued by women) to want to prove themselves and their contribution to society

[@Diana-mu7pc]

Very interesting comment! I definitely feel this as a humanities educator who pals around a lot with my STEM sister-and it's not from my sister, who is the best, but a lot of the (people, but mostly) men I've met through her. A lot of people who might think of themselves as intellectuals in the hard sciences/mathematics sort of way feel that their accomplishments in their degrees or whatever else, is proof enough of their brains. Whereas I love to hear about their subjects of interest, they might turn to me and ask "What do you do?" and seem to feel that it's very quaint when they learn I'm a teacher, LOL, and not only that but an English teacher! I'm much more well-read and historically knowledgeable than many of these shallow-minded people would even consider ever aspiring to be, though. And many of these people don't realize how many of their passions, hobbies, and interests outside of their STEM education/work are actually humanities to the core, which they fail to appreciate on a deeper level for what they really are! I once knew a guy who snickered at me calling linguistics a science ("soft science, psshhh"-as if it's a topic he knows anything about!), yet at the same time was very passionate about knowing and categorizing people based on MBTI, which is the puuuurest of pop psychology, and doesn't even hold up to the academic standards in that field (not that I have a big problem with people identifying their own "types," if it makes them happy, but it's problematic when it's treated as like, an objective way of viewing individuals, because it's not). I even knew a physics major who loved to play video games in his free time but said he had no interest at all in "fiction"-brother, you just don't identify the fiction you love for what it is. Someone free the STEM bros from their own ignorance! Liberate them from their false curtain of objectivity and logic! They're as soft and feeling and subjective as we who specialize in the "stupid people" subjects, LOL. You're only human! You can't escape your humanities!!!

[@sim4296]

@Diana-mu7pc There is a very big difference in the brain of someone who is good at humanities/english than a person who is good at maths. It doesnt mean one is more valid than the other. They probably only value the brains of those who can do stem rather than thinking deeply about literature and how people think/behave. Humanities have always fascinated me but sadly Im just terrible at them 😅.

[@Diana-mu7pc]

@@sim4296 hmmm... I don't think it's necessarily "in the brain" or something immutable; but you're right in that it defines comes down to values, appreciation, and tolerance. I definitely could mention a lot of people who have upset my sister after she says math is her passion and career by being like "oh I hate math, it's so hard!" (Why would you say that to someone you're trying to have friendly conversation with???) We do all have different talents but I'm also of the belief that most people are more well-rounded than we give ourselves credit for. I don't know you, but if you're on this channel then you probably aren't just "bad at the humanities," since you seem to be expressing interest related to the topic. Maybe you feel inferior to others in your knowledge/accomplishments or that you're not as strong in those subjects as whatever your degree/career is in, but give yourself a little credit! You think, you consider, you relate! You're one of us too 🖤

[@RuthvenMurgatroyd]

@@Diana-mu7pc I should have thought that linguistics and philology are the closest thing to pure sciences outside of the so-called "STEM" subjects. It is logic based (and can be reasonably approached theoretically in a purely logical way like we might do with computer science as a so-called "formal science") and has empirical evidence for most of its claims after all. Much more scientific than something like Economics. I mean, even the speculative stuff is interesting and very plausibly true. I say this as someone who is very skeptical of certain fields like psychology. I'm always shocked by how many (don't think the majority) of STEM people are actually very ignorant of other fields and markedly uncurious about them. Gauss almost went into philology; Leibnitz studied nearly everything and wrote philosophy; Newton knew Ancient Greek, Latin, and Hebrew; Euler could recite the Aeneid from memory; Hamilton wrote poetry and so did Maxwell; the physicist of Einstein's generation were enamored with Schopenhauer and took Plato much more seriously than scientists of our age seem to. Sometimes I wonder if we need to go back to canning children for conflating the aorist and perfect tenses in Ancient Greek to fix this 🤷‍♂

[@Mina-hm2og]

When I see social media videos that talk about aesthetics I feel sad for the people posting them because my take is that they are mostly lonely people trying to find friends and meaning in their lives. Or maybe I am projecting my own loneliness. I believe that people that have found a circle of friends with same interests don't feel the need to be so online and so performative.

[@booksaremysociallife]

I can not keep up with my generation. We keep making new things up and turning them into personalities! 😭

[@paula-666]

I was there at the beginning and "thought daughter" is NOT an aesthetic; if anything it is a trope, and it's meant to unite girls or women who are already interested in the same type of things, rather than the other way around (getting new interests because of a trend). Many have used it to further impose consumerism but at its core, thought daughter is first about the art (whatever form), and then about community. Never about being trendy or oh so fun. Unlike the Sade Girl, Office Siren, etc etc etc, this one was just for fun and actually depends on shared beliefs - I'd argue that, if it weren't for the way that the algorithm makes everything shallow, it could've even become an internet subculture, or at the very least an important phenomenon. The TikToks obviously sometimes seem ridiculous because many of them are satirical or, well, just whimsy. And I say this with all respect towards you and your content, but I think (lol) that you are exaggerating. "Thought Daughter" continues to be a fairly niche thing - the average person, even if a young internet user, has no idea about it. Sure, some people are trying to sell books or whatever because of it, but it's pretty strange and will go away in... what? A month. Even then I have yet to see someone outside my internet circle even mention the thing. In my opinion, you are unnecessarily blowing the situation out of proportion. Besides, honestly, as cringe as it sounds, what's the damage? Youth groups bonding over basic literature and their feelings of loneliness has existed forever. And I'd much rather have more pretentious 16-year-olds thinking they're Plath reincarnate than what is much more massively going on regarding anti-intellectualism. Let the girls read and be basic about it in peace!

[@lilybartgremlin]

righttt. linking the "thought daughter" trend to the 'female manipulator' bc a random girl made a playlist is a stretch lolll

[@mila.tsimba]

exactly!!! like let girls be basic, I love being basic and I love being a girl. I love being a “thought daughter” and mostly I love relating to other women and not DOWNGRADING them as “female manipulators”

[@Fela_rof]

I'm so glad I quit Tiktok and Instagram. For months I didn't have t5i think about what my taste in books, hobbies and clothes says about me and if I fit any kind of aesthetic others might enjoy. I love reading ancient Greek classics for fun, love playing chess, studied history and archaeology and I like to do the all of that openly, because it's huge part of my life obviously. Well, people often told me "you're trying so hard to be seen as an intellectual 🙄" I think this whole "this or that aesthetic" thing makes us forget that there are actually people out there who enjoy their stuff without wanting to fit into any of those aesthetic categories. I never wanted to be seen as the "she's pretending to be a character in the The Secret History" or the "Dark Academia " type of girl ... I've always been like that my whole life and I don't try to fit any kind of aesthetic - I'm just being me.

[@jasminesmith6361]

I have to be honest, I'm actually obsessed with being a thought daughter 😂 because all of that stuff is just naturally what I've always enjoyed books, movies, and aesthetic wise etc. so I really connect with it. But I completely agree that it has blown up a ton and been consumerized which sucks cause that shouldn't have been the point 😭

[@kaleigh_hill]

Same here!

[@hope52677]

Same!

[@otakubullfrog1665]

I don't even see this one as being particularly female. Young men are equally capable of believing that just reading more books than they assume other people read and scribbling down amateurish poetry makes them deep, unique and interesting. I know because I've been there myself.

[@beewest5704]

It's giving teenager. 😂😂😂

[@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943]

As a young man, I think everyone should read.

[@AlexanderofMiletus]

They’re all the “people who read philosophy” in that one meme

[@ornlu_the_wolf]

you get a label! you get a label! you get a label!!!!!

[@yelyzavetanalyvaiko7385]

100% agree with the point at the end about how the current trends are just the repetition of the previous ones, but for the different generations, and this doesn't mean they are worse or better now than they were in 2014 or 2008. I just didn't expected the trends of my early twenties to come back so soon (:

[@dozingdaisy2083]

Nostalgia is a parasite. Wallowing keeps you behind in life.

[@lizzy1519]

I appreciate having your view on this as a 17 year old depressive girl (really not in a aesthetic way) cause I found these trend both conforming and judging In a way, I love seeing that I’m not alone in my deep sadness and feeling of being stuck but seeing that I’m not doing it in a aesthetic most of the time make me feel pathetic and overall I’m just really confused in knowing if the romantisation of sadness is good or bad even if it’s not all black or all white, but either way thanks for sharing your analyse (sorry if im not expressing myself perfectly I’m not a native English speaker)

[@vampironyplays]

It didn't even occur to me that 'thot' and 'thought' might be phonetically similar in that way. In my Australian accent, 'thot' is pronounced 'thot' while 'thought' is pronounced 'thaw-et' 😂

[@accordingtoalina]

My boyfriend is british and he had the same *thought* when I was telling him about this video

[@vampironyplays]

​@@accordingtoalina That makes a lot of sense - the two accents are quite similar, for *reasons* 😅 Loved the video, by the way! Keep up the good work 🎉

[@LJB-zzy]

You're so right about age. I was being a 'thought daughter' on tumblr when I was 13 in 2010. I was pretentious and thought I was the first ever person to relate to Zelda from great Gatsby. If the term 'thought daughter' was out there in 2010 I probably would have clung to it and proclaimed it loudly. Lots of girls go through a phase of feeling cerebral and not like other girls (think emo phase), it's just in your face now with hashtags and tiktok trends

[@wilderpeople845]

I thought it was kind of funny when I first heard about it as someone who is into reading, writing and philosophy (and also has a brain that never shuts up). When it started it out it was more like a way to show off taste in literature and to explore philosophy but now that its more mainstream its become very commercialised. Its now an aesthetic instead of being a funny little meme about enjoying philosophy. It just seems like a new branch of "i'm not like the other girls" and women now feel a pressure to paint mundane and normal tasks (eg. staring out a window and thinking/reflecting) as something that makes them stand out, just to prove that they aren't apart of the mainstream/prove their intellectualism. Edit: I do think it can be helpful for some women who maybe never realised that anxiety and depression is a common experience or for women who someone haven't stumbled onto booktok (literature-tok I guess) to find new media to engage with. But other than that I feel it isn't really the large cultural phenomenon people make it out to be. Some girls like to read. some girls like philosophy. lots of girls get sad and anxious.

[@ydorri2460]

I actually enjoy the vast range of aesthetics that people explore online. It's like taking our dress up/persona imaginative games we played as little girls online. It can be fun if people don't take it too seriously I think x

[@shakirashipslied9721]

I assumed thought daughter was a joke, not a whole ass "people are like this" trend 💀

[@accordingtoalina]

I think that to some people it is a joke - or it was initially - but when it comes to online spaces what is irony to some can very quickly turn into earnestness to others…

[@taylozen]

the videos telling people to cut ties with everyone are _really_ worrying because that's exactly how i developed AVPD. i wasnt influenced by video essays but i developed that same line of thinking as a response to my neurodivergent social struggles in my early school life. it's especially hard to undo because you have to expose yourself to the rejection that you hard wired your brain to avoid, and a lot of internet culture already encourages people to stay in their own loops

[@someonefromyourdreams]

when it comes to feeling "too much" - there is a physiological condition called hypersensitivity. it can often go paired with neurodiversity (autism, adhd..) among others. i personally have it and normal life events affect me very deeply, both emotionally and physically. i'm like on a rollercoaster. traffic noises can be very distressing to me for example, i also have this thing where i can be completely moved by beauty and i cry. i just feel a lot and there's nothing i feel mildly - i'm either really happy, or really sad or whatever other emotion. and to raise the topic of thinking too much - i think everyone knows what overthinking is. some ppl struggle with it more than others. but overall, i loved the video and your research on the "thought daughter aesthetic". your opinion on it is very complex and i think reasonable. i agree with you

[@sicksadworld8933]

i THINK that your nailpolish matches your tshirt hue really well, and that color and cut suit your facial features incredibly well. Wear it More ❤

[@accordingtoalina]

thank you so much, I will!

[@Baguettish]

As a person with diagnosed depression and anxiety who likely would be put into this box… I hate it. I would get rid of my mental illnesses if I could, and I do not think they should be aestheticized or romanticized.

[@yessica5231]

I think I'm a thought daughter and I love the literature recommendations. But we don't need to aesthetify or turn this into a trend. Like wdym there's a thought daughter starter pack and a library card isn't at the top of that list?!

[@_Mike.85]

Thinking becomes aesthetic... how far have we fallen. I hate TikTok with a burning passion

[@amy5920]

I WAS WAITING FOR THIS ONE

[@accordingtoalina]

you know me

[@strudelh]

This trend/aesthetic with fade out by the end of this month lol, that’s what usually happens.

[@JuFu1110]

honestly, trends like these are just substitutes for people with 0 personality

[@Foggywindow3995]

Oh, nice! A TikTok trend that resonates with me! * remembers how TikTok intensified my mental health issues in Highschool * * picks trend up with claw grabber thing and moves it away from myself *

[@zoebrugg7594]

I’m a history graduate, a writer, and love reading even if I got burned out by school. This aesthetic trends are getting tiering and nothing but shallow styling. And this “thought daughter” thing is another “I’m an artist and I struggle and suffer.” The struggling or suffering artist is not a good thought. It gives the impression that you need to suffer to be great, you need to have an unhealthy habit or unhealthy mental state to be an artist or philosopher. Just woke up, no coffee in me, sorry if I’m not making sense. But you don’t need an unhealthy state of some kind to make art of any kind; writing, or painting, or playing in photography. People online/ TikTok have too much time. Back to sleep or not I go. 😪

[@weirdlittlesister]

Interest in iconography = femcel??? That actually explains a lot of things for me though :D

[@marieangealahmar]

i think that a lot of the attraction to aesthetics and their rebrand is to do with community. with the lack of free spaces or 3rd places (i think that's what they're called) in the west, people have been gravitating towards an aesthetic to feel close to others and develop an understanding. at its core it's about finding yourself, but finding yourself within others. i mean, the majority of videos are made by western women, and those that aren't don't take the same approach like oh independent thinks so much thought daughter. and it's because with asian, arab and african women, their families are tight knit, and they live in spaces where building a community is a must instead of alienating themselves the way the west does. that's how i view it personally.

[@CrepuscularQueen]

Oh, I've seen a lot of this on pinterest for a long time (I don't have tiktok or ig). It was making me feel uncomfortable how some of my traits were becoming an aesthetic and into cute picture collages. At other points it was really unrelatable (I didn't have the same interest in the exact same artists and authors) so I took a big step away from it. I'm so glad I can view this community/trend through a video and get some thoughtful insight :)

[@sashakeiv2703]

On the outside it seemed like I as thoughtful daughter(before it as an aesthetic) but in reality I was neglected daughter. Just leave everyone alone, don't be loud or annoying and have something of value to say. Why speak when I could get in trouble for showing emotions. SO instead I would just reading books all the time and SO many hidden journals and diaries with my real feelings in them.

[@lilybartgremlin]

I get where the perfomance argument is coming from but I truly believe everything we post on social media, for the very reason of being on social media, is already "perfomative" because it is intended for us to present a certain part of ourselves that we want to be recognized. I don't think it's "sad" that women feel the "need to perform intelligence" because arguably anything that anyone does and uploads can be subjected to the same criticism regardless. Men do the same thing (litbros with roman statue pfps are always uploading their philosphy books and going on and on about dfw and blood meridian) and no one calls them out for being "perfomative readers" or whatever

[@chairmanmeow958]

Irony is the song of a bird who has come to love its cage

[@paige1521]

Like a majority of Tiktok-spawn subcultures, this trend is predicated on differentiating oneself from the norm, yet it subscribes to its own form of normality that is barely distinguishable from the mainstream culture. Reading Normal People by Sally Rooney isn’t niche, it’s a bestselling novel. Phoebe Bridgers has 10 million Spotify listeners per month. It claims to be idiosyncratic, but prescribes a laundry list of required reading comprised of some of the most critically acclaimed books of all time. I can’t disguise my resentment for this kind of thing. I find it to be utterly self-aggrandizing and superficial at best. Pretention in its most distilled, innocuous form.

[@darkwitnesslxx]

English speaking? A large portion of those lists are Russian literature.

[@ladyvader2648]

Im getting sick of dostoyevsky lol

[@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943]

​@@ladyvader2648My friend is reading crime and punishment because it was on his fathers bookshelf lol

[@RachelAnastasiaFurman]

next episode, the breather ….. “i’ve decided to focus on breathing this fall” “new breathing techniques claims to calm down your anxiety”

[@LuxVi7]

I’m sick of “aesthetics” at this point. All I see is a bunch of people without personality craving constant validation. They’re so disconnected from reality.

[@PlaceholderName-b4d]

Can teenagers pls stop labeling every micro thing

[@mauve9266]

I think where so much of adolescence is trying to craft a viable identity, its probably unlikely that teens labelling stuff and themselves is going to stop anytime soon.

[@grain9640]

I tried to read wholesome adventure fanfic for a fandom I liked 10 years ago, and suddenly the characters in new fanfic are different flavors of "queerplatonic" according to the descriptions I looked up the terms and apparently it's subtyping friendship

[@MariaJoseRozas]

​@@grain9640But with the connotations usually given to romantic relationships, like raising a family together.

[@luthor24127]

It's curious because when you described it, it sounds like 18th century romanticism rebranded. Because it's tiktok it will probably fail to produce anything but shallow 30sec videos.

[@RoraUndercover]

Being a thought daughter ain’t for the weak ya’ll anxiety is not fun 😭😭

[@cheeseisdelicious4627]

Sometimes I see these aesthetic trends as identity crisis. The epoch of recycle. I can't bring myself to remember where exactly it started, but definitely with connection to the Internet. Like we definitely can visually differ the past century, from 50's to early 00's, each period had its' own distictive feeling and you feel like "well, everyone was like that during that time (listened to that, dressed like that, read this)". On the contrary in latest years it feels like the birth of these aesthetics make you feel like inorganic attempt at trying on different identities and discarding them if they were not to your liking, instead of having your own that came naturally. And I'm talking about people who create these aesthetics out of thin air, throw a bunch of random things in there and sell it as a trend that will not stick.

[@carole5648]

my first impression 'oh great, tiktok came up with a new 'core for women who think...' and i just can't care about anything that tiktok comes up with. Also, i love your green shirt.

[@bexiexz]

i love this deep dive!

[@camryn9377]

I don't have social media, so most of these aesthetics I've learned about from you and other booktubers. That being said, overthinking a shared by most women. And all of the aesthetics seem to be the same to be me. Journaling, Salley Ronney apparently is a requirement either to hate or to love, perceive to be misunderstood by the majority of society. Being misunderstood and mental health issues, not to mention overthinking things, comes with being part of every society, just in varying degrees. Every new aesthetic and the more I learn about social media, confuses the hell out of me as to how these things become so popular and talked about as if they are revolutionary.

[@333Abs]

Frequently seeing women’s genuine hobbies and interests becoming reduced to a new consumerist aesthetic … very sad.

[@333Abs]

@@zogwort1522 looking at the examples clearly shown in this video, there is a heavy focus on buying products that fit the particular aesthetic. This goes for a large majority of micro trend aesthetics.

[@invisible_design]

it’s giving pisces moon

[@accordingtoalina]

LMAO 💀

[@ingridc0ld]

Damn, I've been ahead of this trend by 20 years (yes, I've had anxiety for most of my life)

[@accordingtoalina]

A pioneer 😭

[@Ajdf1209]

First hearing the phrase "thought daughter" I thought it was a pjo thing with girls identifying their god parent as Athena. It wasn't that.

[@mattjohnholmes]

No one is calling you a thought daughter babe don’t worry

[@doeeyes2]

Why has everything become so performative like showering is now a haul of 18 different bath products... even walking without being on your phone was rebranded as "hot girl walks" and now even thinking has a new label and become a trend. Were talking about the most basic, mundane tasks: bathing, walking, thinking. I dont know what the counter culture to all this is going be or look like... but the pendulum always swings back, smashing everything of the moment. I'm guessing it will be very reminiscent of the 60's hippie culture. The hippies completely tuned out from all media like tv and radio. They hyper aware of advertising and were adamant about not letting it work on them. They were sick of having their youth being used by brands to sell the new can of hairspray. They ignored all the beauty, and hair tutorials of the mid to late 1950'S and were in fact quite dirty, according to modern day hygeine standards... They grew their hair really long and unbrushed and created their own clothes, often bartering and borrowing. They slpet in communes or in vans or in parks. To them, there were much more important things going on then whoever Johny Carson had on his show that night... thus the beginning of imoortant conservations about war and human rights. Anybody else see the glaringly obvious similarities? Between current day social media and the 1950's picture perfect housewives. Bith then and now, everything is so vapid.. am i the only one craving more out lf this human existence? Definitely looking forward to that pendulum to swin.

[@saxbend]

There is an irony to the term pseudo-intellectual, given that it mixes Latin and Greek, and users of the word probably aren't even aware of this.

[@RuthvenMurgatroyd]

The existence of barbarisms is something that we simply must accept, especially when they are longstanding, widespread, and more euphonic and particularly in a mongrel language like English; your point then is not so much intellectual (as the supposed irony of the situation would imply) as it is pedantic.

[@2morepages]

I am soooo tired of the -cores and aesthetic. Live your life without making it an aesthetic, it must be so stressing!

[@leticiabrc]

thank god this wasn't trending in 2014, i would've made this term my entire personality

[@lornatw]

I feel like it's a trend that either fits into being an advocate so directly against the thot/gay question. Or the broader one of people who are misunderstood and have a character under the surface that isn't seen easily- this would be really easy to find in movies and books. I don't really like it as a sensitive girl overthinker I feel like there's a bunch of romantic and daydreams trends relating to that. Nor the depressed in head about life kind. This new trend seems to either be a woman who advocates for prejudice which makes sense for the origin. OR the not like other girls combined with isolated or different hidden life /personality that you have to dig for or read their diary!

[@NotaBurnerac-iv6pp]

Each time I see a video from you, I just sigh bc it's yet another aesthetic, yet another trend, yet another label... It's so tiring. I even skip some of your videos bc I've just never heard of the topic before (if it's some trend) and at this point it's all the same. Thank you for analyzing it though, it's much better than lots of clickbaity videos on similar topics.

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

re: the question about thinking more than others, how do they know that they think more than others. I imagine it has something to do with being told by others "you think too much" or "it's not that deep" or "it seems like you're overthinking this." Those other people self-identify themselves as people who do not think that much, and they seem proud of that fact.

[@StephTucker-hc8px]

I don't know if it's because I'm in my thirties and/or don't have social media but, I don't understand the need for so many labels and aesthetics. What's wrong with just being yourself and enjoying life?

[@laura_npeace]

I love the video, but i love your nails more 😍

[@marianumgajeena675]

I'm sorry, my comment has nothing to do with the plot of the video, I just wanted to complement your top and say it looks very elegant on your shoulders with the hair moving back and front, and the color very suits your skintone

[@accordingtoalina]

Thank you Maria that’s so kind ❤

[@VerminaeSupremacy]

I really miss subcultures of 2000s. Back in the day we had goths, geeks, punks, gopniks, waged holy wars about who's true and who's a fickle poser in it for clout and cool clothes. Childish, yes, but music and hobbies and philosophy and lifestyle was found in real-life get-togethers and forums of these times served mostly to find people near you to band up. Everything is trend and aesthetic and terribly online now, and, sadly, with little substance. These people (if they have employment and social life) are absolutely not banding up with other writers for a fandom war, they're busy SEEMING intellectual on social media gathering likes and shares and stitches -_-

[@anyway-bx2wb]

All those aesthetics still exist and I promise, people are very much still accusing people of being posers and stuff on tiktok. Aesthetics don’t just die out, they stay the exact same or the name changes.

[@takke9830]

The way women being categorized into genres especially on tiktok feels so weird to me. Why can‘t we just be people? This stuff always felt strange to me. Who‘d want to play into a stereotype? Especially based on gender. Then ppl get mad at trans ppl and do this stuff right after. Gender is such a weird thing man.

[@missymitchell9827]

Yay for female friends on the same page! ily

[@accordingtoalina]

I love youuuuu

[@mars3676]

I’m exhausted

[@SimonaCappentine]

Being a teenage girl is inherently funny.

[@chocolateoreo6489]

I love the thought daughter aesthetic ❤

[@XenIsWhen]

Have we affixed a label onto every personality trait a girl or woman can possibly have yet? I feel we need a weird label for left-handed girls with freckles, or girls who hate tomatoes but love ketchup.

[@20000dino]

So TikTok is now making an aesthetic out of… thinking? 🗿

[@Sinthecity]

Sometimes I wonder if we as women have the urge/proclivity to hollow out a human experience (like being sad, smart, whatever) into an aesthetic bc the most acceptable way to be a woman is prettily but emptily

[@tannenbaum6092]

for an aesthetic that's all about being intellectual and well-read the name "thought daughter" sounds really juvenile and stupid

[@helenjennings_]

hate to be this person on such a well-researched and insightful video but can I please ask where your top is from 🥲 I love the colour! great video!!

[@accordingtoalina]

Omg no problem at all!! The brand is called Of Planet Earth xxx

[@helenjennings_]

@@accordingtoalina yay thank you!! 💚

[@bhunyee]

i’ve heard of this before

[@HansHammertime]

Isn’t it condescending to be told by these influencers that you are a free thinking woman at liberty to enjoy life in a different way than what people expect from you Only to then be given a list of required reading material before you are deemed free thinking enough?

[@NotANameist]

This was arguably the largest amount of talking without saying anything ever. 😂

[@JaceBlack-do2uy]

maybe it sounds like nothing is being said because you're just not clever enough to understand what she's saying 😭

[@zuu876]

so basically we are back in our tumblr era!

[@fusionspace175]

This is just another excellent example of how most of modern media is a complete waste of time, thought, effort, and attention. "I think about things and have feelings" is just being a normal person, but you have to go and invent a bunch of meaningless language to describe it as if you're the first humans to ever experience anything, and you do it just to feel as if you've accomplished something. You have not. Tiktok is the mirror of Narcis but for all of humanity, and the only healthy choice is to look away.

[@lauravisser3282]

really, it's now a trend to think ??? LMAO

[@rachelparks1832]

Nah you had no business criticizing nymphet alumni, they were 100% correct, and the pseudo intellectual label applies just as much if not more to men

[@JenDunndot]

nymphet alumni didn't say that. she's talking about a random commenter who left a comment in the nymphet alumni podcast subreddit saying women who like the thought daughter trend are pseudo intellectuals. Alina is only referring to the podcast hosts themselves to make a point that clearly a lot of women are very intellectually engaged (hosts + probably the listeners too) so it's ironic that those same people would be so quick to call others fake intellectuals. Anyway, no criticism of the actual podcast happened...

[@Delasantos95]

Why can't people just live without having to put a label on it? I just don't understand the appeal of having to do that

[@lilybartgremlin]

The 'thought daughter' trend I think can be tied to multiple aesthetics at once because of the nature of tiktok where everyone from the "outside" can look at a trend, resonate with it and make their own content to be exposed to new people. In this case the term didn't even have an aesthetic in the first place so everyone can do what they want with it. I am personally addicted to tiktok and don't think it has a set 'look' at all, I've also seen a lot of correlation with dark academia which doesn't really mix with "femcel" aesthetic at all. I think that's the difference with something like the for ex 'female manipulator' aesthetic that was born in tumblr and was pretty contained and niche until it got out, and that's why a lot of the original creators of this community deactivated or privated their ig accounts and went back to posting exclusively on tumblr after all the backlash.