Thoughts on BnB Shogun, Spartus Apollo & Balls Are a Mess

[@slackersc11]

Thanks for the shoutout fellas! That was me that sent in the email about the Wilson paddles and cracked the joke on Will with the Skee-Lo song. Y'all are the #1 PB podcast in my book.

[@PickleballWill]

🐐

[@jeremyrobinson8581]

Glad this didn’t turn out to be a shorter pod like y’all thought! I definitely love the 1hr+ episodes for when I’m at work or commuting 😅. Great one today guys

[@groot3371]

I enjoyed the podcast. I will have to feel how much grit is on my pre-ordered Apollo when I receive it to see if it is as much as you said. I made it to the kitchen and I always stretch from head to feet before playing, so I do not pull anything. Hopefully, we will see some videos on your tournament matches and especially if you play against each other. Thank you, Chris and Will.

[@ericmandell7895]

You guys are hilarious. Great chemistry!👍🏽🇬🇺🇲🇵

[@carlosvreeland5728]

THE APOLLO IS THE DEFINITION OF GRIT!

[@carlrodrigues6919]

Got mine felt average.

[@univision1489]

Garbage paddle for sure in every aspect. Which tell me these reviewers are not giving honest reviews

[@stephen2365]

big fan of chris and the true host of the pod: pickleballshill!

[@tystill]

oh hell yeah movement by david is great! Glad his stuff is helping you too

[@Roboto_Gato]

37:55 Will just became the host in my heart with Chris not knowing that song. 💔

[@Metow677]

For me, the hardest part of playing with non dominant hand is the footwork and hip rotation

[@Masterdebator881]

Same here. I think eye dominance plays a major part as well. I’m naturally left handed but had an injury and now I play right. I’ve always had right eye dominance so the switch wasn’t bad as far as hitting the ball. Movement is a struggle lol

[@td5272]

Playing opposite handed is a trip. Your brain just feels different afterwards. Had to do it due to an injury a couple years ago in both racquetball and pickle and it makes you break down technique better and you think about your strong side mechanics differently afterwards. It's worthwhile to try and use with lower level players for sure.

[@rendschindler]

Played a 3.5 tournament with a 4.5 player who was recovering from a wrist injury. He played lefty, but would serve missiles with his right and won (or at least set us up well) a fair amount of points this way. Pretty shady but we didn’t make the podium so I don’t feel too bad

[@FarmerLankyPickleball]

Is the brand that you're getting emails from Luxe? 😂 I got one from someone asking about reviewing them

[@pickleballtechdude]

I got the same LOL but they're legit! So probs not them. Luxe paddle is essentially that infinity aeroshot paddle from several months ago. Nothing to write home about

[@Mr.DJones]

Thank you for your time and posting. I would be pissed off. Why? They will use their right hand when they start losing or have a difficult shot. Now, if there is a rule included that states that if they use their right hand at 'any time', they default the game. But of course, they won't do that. This MLP wasn't really an MLP. It was a PPA Tournament with MLP formatting. Where were all the line cameras (the replay videos for line calls were a JOKE)? Mobile body cameras? Net or ref mics? It is interesting. The challenger matches had three refs. Yet all the Premier matches only had two refs. There were only two or three cameras on each court. That's it. At the MLP in Mesa a few years ago, I counted 11 cameras on the main court, not on the last day. On the first day, the scoreboard was one of the best I have seen, with great information; players, team names, ball position indicators, etc. The next day, PPA took away most of the information and placed an advertisement on the scoreboard instead. Compared to the past MLPs, this really was a joke.

[@rusty935]

chump mentality

[@nickyaeger8053]

I’ve seen other channels play with sandpaper and ping pong rubber on their paddles just to mix it up and make it fun. Makes for some good laughs!

[@kevintolo5169]

5.0 left handed in 3.5 bracket wouldn’t be fair. Their paddle skills are 3.0-3.5 but their strategy, positioning, and thinking will be 5.0.

[@RussellHeistuman]

The thing is that even if they started at 3.5 left-handed, their skill set as their left hand became more adjusted to play would increase through 4.0-4.5 probably within a day or two because they have a 5.0 mindset

[@JeffLandauer]

I played left handed for about 6 months because of tennis elbow issues. I'm a low 4.0 normally, but was easily a 3.5 left handed pretty quickly. My shots weren't powerful, but they were smarter and more consistent than the other 3.5's. Yeah, if these guys are normally 5.0, they would smoke 3.5's in a tournament. BTW, playing left handed, my two handed "backhand" was amazing. I started sitting backhand a lot.

[@EG80]

It's still fair, the other players need to adapt their positioning, if they can't do something as simple as recognizing the shortcomings of bad positioning then they wont get better. It is a competitive sport after all

[@carlosvreeland5728]

YO WILL with the shoutout appreciate that lol

[@kamanhalim]

Which one do you prefer? The Shogun, Shapeshifter, or Apollo?

[@univision1489]

If you bought the Apolo you are screwed . Aliexpress paddle is way better than apolo. Get an engage pursuit mx for power , or apes pro energy " not the s version" for control/power

[@shandyjackpinder2467]

Have you tried the excluder pro 16mm thermoform paddle?

[@MattyRut2922]

Did you get multiple Apollo’s? Was the grit different on the back and the front? If not, why would you not assume they all are super gritty? Felt like alot of quality statements against them and I’m concerned your venting unfairly on them. Joola’s with one side gritty and, on the same paddle, the other side not gritty is a quality issue. Also, I appreciate your comments on crush testing with the thumbs. I was one of those people that was afraid to really push on my paddle because I didn’t want to crush it on accident. Hulk smash!

[@PickleballStudio]

Yes, I have two Apollos and tested them with a Starrett and their numbers were very different. But that wasn’t my point. I wasn’t saying the Apollo is inconsistent, I was saying all raw carbon fiber faces in the whole industry are very inconsistent. I get 10-15 paddles a month and they all vary wildly.

[@MattyRut2922]

@@PickleballStudio I’ve always wondered if manufacturers go through their paddles and send the reviewers the grittiest ones they can find. But that wouldn’t be possible if they are getting the paddles fully packaged by the factory. Now what is possible, and I bet is happening, is that paddle companies hand pick the test samples they send to USPA, instead of random units off the production line. Once the paddles pass, there is no “certification checks” being done so the manufacturers can turn up the grit levels. Therefore out of tolerance grit isn’t necessary always a sign of a quality control issue, it’s just someone working the system (aka cheating a bit). All these hypotheses to the side, I agree variation from paddle to paddle IS a quality issue. We also see alot of weight variation that everyone just accepts as part of the normal manufacturing processes. These are things a good manufacturer should be able to get under control.

[@rusty935]

Apollo is dog💩 paddle

[@univision1489]

​@@PickleballStudio quit making garbage paddle look good . Yes apolo sucks in every aspect of the game . Their customer service as well . I wonder why ebay is flooded with people selling their apolos .

[@stephenbloch5017]

I was on the edge of my seat waiting for the review of the Shogun. First day was really tough coming from a Legacy Pro. I couldn't hit a drop, block, reset, or putaway at the kitchen for the life of me. Turns out I couldn't do that with any paddle that day. Seven hours of play over the weekend and I got DIALED IN. Paddle seems to soften a bit and got more controllable. Spin is excellent. Power was solid too. I'm assuming it will get even better.

[@rambosfist8657]

I’m debating ordering the Shogun the next time they’re in stock. Sounds like you’re happy with your purchase then?

[@vanadyan1674]

I love the green Franklin balls, Dura after that.

[@vGramps]

Love the naruto shirt, host Will! Keep up all the work guys!

[@connerjames7356]

joola gen 3 has made me not really want to play any social tournaments anymore. At 4.5 basically everyone has one and it’s frustrating to think that someone’s paddle has a seemingly high chance to be core crushed or has illegal grit.

[@mrfofung]

Ask to see there paddle and give it a squeeze. If it’s core crushing.. then put an asterisk on their play

[@rusty935]

seems like a skill issue for you

[@connerjames7356]

@@rusty935 I never said anything about losing lol. I just said playing with someone that has a relatively high chance of having an illegal paddle is ruining the experience and the game overall for people of all levels.

[@kurt5347]

14:30 I’d like to send this ambiguous, cryptic message asking if you’re maybe going to do a full review on the new Paddletek TKO-C & TKO-CX. I think I recall you mention them perhaps in a podcast, but the more details the better! It would be cool to see how a “gen 1” type paddle generates so much power with a look on the inside of the paddle. I’d especially love your thoughts on how they compare to the new Engage P1 paddles. Thanks again for the great content! ✌️

[@PickleballStudio]

Review comes out tomorrow!

[@mrfofung]

What time is the TBD dropping. I agree , I don’t grab the ruby at Launch and then I had to wait 6 months to get it.

[@samuraistabber]

6pm EST just like every drop they had,

[@rusty935]

if you miss it you won't get another one it's 1 time drop only

[@Newchiii]

I need some info on this Willinator..

[@El_Guap]

BPJ's 2hd backhand dink with the head high is the corollary to Ben John's unique 1hd backhand topspin dink; he also hits it tip-high with that shot (Fed copied it but that's about it out there). You see Ben do it when he is pulled wide and does a deep cross-step which brings his paddle really low, just like BPJ does. You definitely have to get lower with a tip-high topspin backhand dink. Oh, and I totally rip with my 2hd backhand when I play lefty!

[@btreese7]

How would you rate the Shogun vs the Ruby? I feel my Ruby does everything for me (well, except for the grit wearing off).

[@blackcayman64]

Honeywell Safety Glasses with Clear UVEX frame makes for the best pickleball glasses - bc you pop out the lenses and the frames provide the protection. A pickleball cannot penetrate the frames. No FOGGING obviously $13-$17 on Amazon

[@prasiththammasithiboon4194]

Hypershock model?

[@blackcayman64]

@@prasiththammasithiboon4194 Honeywell Safety Products by Hypershock Safety Glasses, Clear Frame with Clear Lens & Uvextreme Plus Anti-Fog Coating (S2970XP)

[@rusty935]

what do you mean? the models look like if you took off the lenses the ball can def hit you in the eye. the frames aren't going to stop it lol

[@prasiththammasithiboon4194]

@@rusty935yeah, frame looks too big sitting on male model’s face.

[@ashtonhenson]

When is the 14mm ruby coming?

[@thehiddenfamily]

What’s the Swingweight of the Willinator? 😭😭

[@kimleith1378]

I'd like to see a video on "peel ply" the acutual sheet that's used to create the grit. Players also has a wide body that is simialr in shape to the Apollo. Have either of you guys had a ARAMID core "crushing" or "collapsing" OSO is the official ball for NPL. I like it and play it often. I switch paddles depending on ball type as well. Watched MLP and enjoyed it mostly. I had some streaming issues that was annoying. Replays on KZbin though. My wrist is "jacked' from a old Mtn Bike crash.

[@mcnillerandsons7906]

Can you explain the generations of paddles? I still don’t understand what makes a Gen 1.5 vs 2 vs 3 and don’t see any good blogs explaining Gen 3. I just get ads for Joola when I search.

[@Masterdebator881]

Gen 1.5, not thermoformed, edge foam. Gen 2, fully thermoformed. Gen 3, foam in core

[@jchappanda]

Do paddles ever go flat/dead? I guess what i mean by that is do they ever do the opposite of core crusheing and lose pop/power overtime? I have a ruby that ive used since the first release and i feel like its lost pop and my drives are not as hard. Not sure if anyone else has experienced that, or if i just need to hit the gym instead of the courts😂

[@geoandy]

This could be a thing, try to Play with another players Ruby and let them play with yours to see if either of you can tell any differences. If not already, try an add tungsten

[@Firesong4ng]

Gen 1 paddles will separate layers and you will get dead spots. That's the time to change them up.

[@btreese7]

I've had my Ruby now for about 4 months. Feels the same to me as far as pop/power....but the grit is wearing for sure.

[@pauljohnmarcelino2121]

Shōgun? That based on the tv series? Do they have the Anjin, Toranaga, Mariko, or Yabushige series? 😂

[@christaporco5932]

bro i feel old with Chris not knowing that song lol

[@PickleballWill]

ikr?!

[@twodubz2280]

Love the podcast, as always. I know this has been asked before but I never saw the answer. What kind of wall mounts are you using to mount your paddles @pickleballstudio ? I need to start hanging up some paddles. Thanks in advance!

[@PickleballStudio]

They are just some long garage wall hooks from Amazon by a company called SYEAPONE

[@geoandy]

I 3D printed some paddle hangers and They work great. Happy to print more just IM me

[@twodubz2280]

@@geoandy how awesome!

[@twodubz2280]

@@PickleballStudio Thank you so much!

[@raybrown1892]

USAP please, please set a reasonable Exit Velocity Standard, this will be the most important step you can make to retain the integrity of the sport. Do not give into the pressure of the paddle companies and grandfather any paddles. Show us you have the balls to stand up to corporate pickleball! This does not mean that they can't sell any paddle they want, they can do what they want but only paddles that pass the standard will be approved for tournament play.

[@varshilanavadia]

Chris got the intro right finally 😂

[@jacksonrush5540]

I see will has covered up the willinator in the back for this week….👀 or replaced it with the shogun

[@ryankeirns345]

Like the lefty idea. However, what if someone uses a two-handed backhand as their primary shot? Or even uses two off both sides? Does that qualify as lefty?

[@PickleballStudio]

One handed lefty only.

[@NabilaMHusain]

Soooo… if Onix Fuse is not good, what is the best option for indoor gym floor PB?

[@PickleballStudio]

For indoor gym play, that would be your best option.

[@robbydridesemtb4428]

My 2 week old Joola BJ Perseus3 16mm has a smooth face compared to every other new Joola (8-10) at our club. What are my options? I paid $300, and a grity face is one of several reasons my wife shelled out 3 bills. I'm going to begin a warranty return, but hope to hear back from one or both of you guys, thanks.

[@rusty935]

lmao you really bought one without checking the grit and paid full retail?? hahaha you deserve to not get a warranty

[@robbydridesemtb4428]

@@rusty935 My wife surprised me DB!

[@rusty935]

@@robbydridesemtb4428 bro just sell the warranty lol it aint worth it my guy

[@samuelpierce7664]

Is USAP strong enough to demand the manufacturers abide? Or is it the leagues that matter?

[@DianSusiana98]

Pickleball left handed is definitely fun,and it's so difficulty.

[@sy-ld3tq]

Gearbox ball is the best. They rarely break or warp

[@YoungRainMaker]

Chris doesn’t know reading rainbow or skee lo?!!! Dang dude I’m getting old! Will your paddle looks sick! I literally just got my 6.0 Ruby yesterday otherwise I would have bought yours instead!

[@a.patrickzalamea7436]

Apparently Quong Doung is pronounced Wing Yoong…someone said it on a PPA broadcast

[@FrankRollberg]

Haven't anyone tried the Katana?

[@mariacopre4106]

Please recommend solution for anti-fog...none of the sprays or wipes help anit-fog my protective eyewear. Thanks!

[@ByrleySports]

The nizo by UDrippin should be fog proof!!

[@mariacopre4106]

Thank you!!

[@ByrleySports]

@@mariacopre4106 I should have a discount code that will work for them if you end up buying! AGDRIP15

[@CharlesBrodheadIII]

A 5.0 gearbox rep at our club suggested using a thin layer of car wax. Said this permanently removes fogging though I haven't tried it myself yet.

[@carlrodrigues6919]

Shaving cream

[@jcsirls]

Love my shogun!

[@patricktardif1829]

How’s the spin compared to the filth?

[@jcsirls]

@@patricktardif1829 I’d say the spin of the two are tit for tat, no one has more spin than the other. I haven’t hit the filth much but from what I have I’d say the shogun has slightly less power but still plenty powerful, I have a hard time controlling the power of the filth but the shogun has way more control. My drops dinks and resets are dialed.

[@rambosfist8657]

I’ve been dying for more player feedback on the Shogun. What’s your experience level and what type of paddles do you typically use? I’m intermediate coming from a Vatic Prism which is all about control and I’m wanting something that has more power but is still controllable.

[@jcsirls]

@@rambosfist8657 I’m between 3.5-4.0 id say and before the shogun I had the bread and butter loco and before that I had the slk halo. I love the control of the loco and the shogun has more power than the loco but not as much control in my opinion

[@rambosfist8657]

@@jcsirls Thanks! Pretty sure I’m getting one.

[@davidnglee7224]

Please cover GRUVN LAZR 16S and 16X paddles!!!! PPLEASEEEE!!

[@johnkaprelian3075]

Will I remember the reading rainbow so body bag Chris once for not knowing and call him a baby lol

[@af02271]

I could totally see a 5.0 playing in a 3.5 tournament getting into competition mode when they start losing and switch back to their dominant hand mid-way through... THEN I'd be upset to find them in the bracket.

[@mikecrean6168]

How are people not trying to guess the Paddle that is trying to get a review? Gotta be Carbon Pickle Pro right?

[@alexpazmino4762]

Will you be doing full reviews of the j2k - j2k pro -j7k -j7k pro paddles?

[@shawnwsl]

i wish i can get a shogun here in malaysia :(

[@mcnillerandsons7906]

SHOGUN!!!! Let’s go!!! Shogun vs Ruby for battle of the dopest paddles on the market.

[@bucklau3933]

Is Will or Hayden Patriquin taller?

[@PickleballWill]

Prob Patriquin 🤣

[@ernie_bot]

I bet the brand is OM that asks for reviews.

[@HughMungus8]

I agree 😂😂

[@larryl]

Haven’t finished the podcast yet, but really hope your balls get better!

[@chaseprovencio2571]

Where are the proton reviews?

[@sesamesprinkles]

People who ordered December/January of last year apparently haven’t received theirs yet so I doubt we’ll be seeing any reviews… I know John kew and few others were able to get their hands on one but notice how no other videos about them are out there… they must still be missing some parts to build the paddle (I actually emailed them back in the day and told me they were going to get the materials end of March so here we are 🙃

[@RC-tm8jo]

We have all these advancements in paddle technology, and the balls remain so basic and cheap. It's like wearing a $300 tie with a $20 dress shirt. I wish the pickleballs were softer with more spin, higher bounce, and less power.

[@rusty935]

yeah why don't we just create a whole separate sport for you pal. anything else you want?

[@RC-tm8jo]

@rusty935 All I am saying is that I don't think the ball itself is on par with the paddles. The paddles are great, in my opinion, and have a lot of good options, but I don't think the pickle balls pair well with the paddles in how they play, and they feel outdated. This opinion is shared by many players in my area, and I respect that you have a different opinion that the balls play great in the current game and are in no need of being changed.

[@rusty935]

@@RC-tm8jo I mean they would have to create a. whole different rules guideline and you know the usap is dog💩

[@RC-tm8jo]

@rusty935 Perhaps there isn't a great solution. If the ball did have a little more bounce, then dinks wouldn't be as effective because they would sit up more.

[@86309]

Shogun vs Ruby ... GO!

[@rdelnaja2558]

None of my friends hate playing with Faster balls like Dura or Chucks. I always bring Selkirk, Franklins are too soft.

[@theLanceInPants]

Thats like going to LA fitness and you have to play some NBA player left handed. Doesnt feel good if you win or lose

[@hfloMB]

Anybody else think Chris laughs like skeletor from He-man? lol

[@ajfloresii]

Chris should pass on this paddle and see how many people buy it! Lol it’s gonna be a hit 🥵

[@El_Guap]

We need the Chris Olson's School for Kids who Shouldn't Social Media... and Will will be the first student.

[@pauljohnmarcelino2121]

My buddy has 2 dupr accounts, one for righty and one for lefty

[@obospieler]

Chris often talks about the length of the podcast. Inferring that it’ll be a longer one or a shorter one. I wonder why… I wonder if anyone cares how long the podcast is. For me personally, I don’t care if it’s 45 minutes or an hour and 10 minutes. I just wonder why so many hosts obsess over this

[@CyberSonic157]

Are you guys suggesting that because both of your Apollos were super gritty, that it couldn't possibly be legal, and it's an inconsistent model where other Apollos have less grit? I'm not really sure that's a fair statement to make without comparing it against more Apollos. Edit: They actually weren't suggesting that.

[@PickleballStudio]

I didn’t say the Apollo was specifically inconsistent, I was referring to raw carbon fiber across the industry.

[@CyberSonic157]

@@PickleballStudio Gotcha, thanks for the clarification!

[@waynekurtz660]

Strange place to talk about carbon grit inconsistencies during the Apollo review. Because its 100% kevlar and consistently reviewed as very gritty like sand paper.

[@samuelpierce7664]

I play a lot of lefty in table tennis and pickleball and this is also allowed me to have more double forehand than a backhand because my feet are somewhat slow especially in table tennis. I play left-handed against inferior opponents or when I need to focus as I find that my mental acuity is stronger when I am needing to focus on anticipating the ball a lot better. I think generally once people realise that you're actually right-handed in playing down to them they'll find it extremely patronising and infuriating and I must admit that I do this in order to piss people off. As such I don't suggest that you as public figures do this in a tournament. I will say that developing left-handed versatility but you have a quicker reaction and a different angle on the ball than they expect is super valuable

[@jamesonder6755]

when she sees it ‘MY WILL 🤭 INNATE HER’ after she she sees it she’ll be a ‘WILLIN AIDER’ 🤓

[@spencerdoesreviews]

If I played left handed it would be like a 5 year old playing. I would be so bad left handed

[@HughMungus8]

I have a feeling the brand that emailed Chris is OM. They have so many obvious bot accounts in the comments of their videos.

[@PollySmith_469]

The design of Shogun feels special.

[@HughMungus8]

Vulcan ball suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks

[@robertwray6004]

Have you reviewed the Aero 1 by Om? Looks cool and unique.

[@TaylorBowermanPB]

MLP wasn't broadcasting their 10am matches which is so fking stupid. The production was poor quality compared to the last mlp. I remember how amazing the cameras were from the last mlp and now it just looks bad. I was watching the challenger match with the florida smash on the dinks youtube channel you could hear the championship court crowd in the back ground and they didn't even stream it. I just don't get how these people just can't stream their matches???

[@douglasmurdoch7247]

It was literally in 360p. Looked like security camera footage.

[@aidankuroski9425]

Vega 40 is a good ball too no one talks about it but it’s cheap and plays relatively fast

[@damiencoffey2391]

The Selkirk balls are horrible, they don't bounce! I'll stick with Franklin X40.

[@univision1489]

Spartus apolo has nothing good about it. No power, no pop, no control , average spin . I bought one and i regret it . I wonder why people are selling their apolos in ebay, and all of them look in great shape which tells me they hated it from the get go . Also customer service sucks they asking for %25 restocking fee if i need to return it within the 30 days window.

[@Rock-cz5hv]

Be shure to film

[@geoandy]

Have been a fan of the pod since day 1 and love Chris’s honesty but these last couple pods on KZbin have been ridden with long ads, I get it, gotta make that loot but let’s not go too crazy. Maybe it’s just on this platform or just me and I need to adjust

[@PickleballStudio]

Long ads? What are you talking about? We do zero ads on this podcast currently. Are you talking about the gear discussion? We review paddles for a living, we have to talk about paddles haha.

[@49pickles]

I feel that the inconsistency in QA and poor Customer Service has made it so I can’t legitimately purchase a paddle online anymore.

[@erwinium]

You need to check out Spartus, the best customer service in the game 👌🏽

[@DavidMPena]

First

[@osint6372]

The paddles dont make the players.........Enough with this paddle crap and spin and bullshit....

[@yummybong148]

Is Chris using Babolat shoes in his two handed backhand drill session?? They definetley arent Head Revolts like he use to preech to everyone would love a shoe review update on his current ones anyone else?? Good shoes are better then having the best paddle as Will has said and I believe it but I have weak ankles HAHAHAHA.

[@PickleballStudio]

Just messing around with them! So far they are solid shoes. Probably no reviews from me though. Zach The Foot Doctor on KZbin is the best for court shoe reviews.

[@Eric-Denton]

WASTED