Three Under & A Tab, Still Instinctive? - (Glove or Tab/ Split finger or 3 under)

Over the past few months I've been playing around with shooting three under and using a tab (you may have noticed this?) and as a result i've been getting a lot of comments asking why? and if I'm still shooting Instinctively?
So I thought I'd make a video on it and talk a little about the differences in shooting split finger (Mediterranean) and 3 under and also some of the advantages and disadvantages of using a glove or tab. I hope you find it useful?
-Grizzly Jim
www.grizzlyjim.co.uk
/ archeryadventures
Music in this video was provided by:
Doctor Turtle "lullaby for democracy" is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license. Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
Source:
Artist: freemusicarchive.org/music/Doc...
and
With additional music from
Inked Archer:
/ chriskurth
www.grizzlyjim.co.uk
/ archeryadventures
A huge thank you to Dusty at Striker Bows
www.strikerbows.com
www.silverarchery.co.uk
[e-mail]
-Grizzly Jim
www.grizzlyjim.co.uk
/ archeryadventures
Music in this video was provided by:
Inked Archer:
/ chriskurth
www.grizzlyjim.co.uk
/ archeryadventures
A huge thank you to Dusty at Striker Bows
www.strikerbows.com
www.silverarchery.co.uk
[e-mail]
facebook: / thatgrizzlyjim
twitter: / thatgrizzlyjim
Tumblr: / archeryadventures
Instagram: / thatgrizzlyjim
A big thank you to Silver Archery and Striker bows.
Also a big thank you to Simon Bode from www.bode-shop.de for the new recording equipment!

[@mayk7124]

*"Shoot in a way that gives you the biggest smile."* I have a feeling that's going to stick with me for a long time. Thanks, Jim! I hope your hand gets better.

[@sb-ant6457]

Some of my best friends shoot three under, obviously I'd not let my daughter marry one.

[@ArcheryAdventures]

lol

[@tjj4lab]

The best comment I've read all week.

[@OldJoe212]

I agree with you. However, I guess we should try to treat them like they're normal.

[@Musketman84th]

😂

[@Musketman84th]

@@Lobofoxmt think you mixed me up with someone else....what are you going on about. I didnt say anything lol

[@mesopotamia-iq]

The most important thing is: Take care and shoot straight.! Big thumbs up 👍to you from Iraq 🇮🇶

[@iCantPickaNamej]

Im new to archery, but I shoot 3 under and I'm loving it. It feels less stressful

[@huntinglife5202]

I shoot 3 under instinctive with a tab for 30 years plus. I never knew it was frowned upon hahahaha. Shoot how you want.

[@edkovac8978]

Good to see you again Jimbo. Keep shooting and posting more nice videos. 😉

[@thomasduffy3625]

Day made. New vid from your good self Jim.Thanks; Keep it up. Always informative and honest.

[@alanbeaulier5783]

Jim, good to see/hear from you hope everything is well with you and your family. It's good to know your business is doing well and hope you continue. Can't wait for more videos so for now I'll just say thank you.

[@chaleefoo1]

hey jim been watching your videos again. "archery is a journey" you're one my inspirations to get into traditonal archery. keep up the good work brother

[@djla2276]

I had a very similar experience about a year ago when I had a minor wrist injury, which caused excruciating pain when shooting split-finger. I switched to shooting three-under for a while, which alleviated the pain pretty much entirely (no idea why -- maybe a physical therapist or some other professional will explain it to me someday). After my wrist healed, I gradually shifted back to split-finger. I found shooting instinctively to be equally fun both ways.

[@ukitake8844]

Nice vid Jim. You gave me inspiration to pick up traditional archery.

[@scottnovak4303]

Shooting instinctive has nothing to do with split or 3 under or using a glove or a tab. It’s a subconscious aiming method. It has nothing to do with the equipment used. I shoot instinctive, 3 under, with a glove. BTW, it was great meeting you at ETAR this year!

[@martygilson5928]

I've been doing both with a tab for years !! Indoors or outdoor 18 meter shoots I go 3 under and at the longer distances I switch to split finger. My R/D longbows are much quieter and seem a tad more efficient shooting split finger but at the shorter distances 3 under greatly decreases my gaps !!

[@alphagrafix]

Sensible advice as ever Jim. 👍

[@archer5614]

It's good to see that top archers also have problems trying to find the right glove and whether tab or glove is best etc. Also the comments regarding the deep hook were really useful.

[@tomoyaogawa4485]

Awesome video again!! I love watching your video 😸

[@ArcheryAdventures]

ogawa tomoya thank you!

[@willcullen9698]

Love the honesty dude, I shoot 3 fingers under on a WW blackwolf, no one believes I'm shooting instinctive, although it's the only way I've ever known! Keep rockin, you have thought me all I know! Will Ireland! & thank you!

[@Andromachine]

Thank you much. It was interesting and important information.

[@mskwad3841]

I shoot a longbow 3 under gap shoot, and i am proud of it, its what makes me happy,my brain wont let me shoot instinctive,but after a wile the gaps became natural and your bow arm will go to the perfect spot, so shoot whatever makes you happy, cheers from argentina!! Excuse my english

[@sebastienraymond3648]

I stopped using my glove for exactly the same reason since last June. I was forced to reinforce the glove with leather and even there, the leather of the fingers of the glove began to form small grooves because of the tension of the string. Which gave the same effect as poking the string on release and it affected all my results. Since I switched for a Tab things are better.

[@DavidWCoulter]

Hi Jim, good video. I like a duraglove so I can get my fingers close to my face, but I also struggle with some finger pain. I’ve not had much success with a tab, though I keep going back to try now and then. I’ve used a Black Widow Stik Tight glove with a good amount of success. Good protection, though I’d rather have a thinner glove for form. Thanks for your thoughtful videos. Dc

[@gilanbarona9814]

With archery, as with most other things, if it works, it works. If it works and it's good for you, then it's even better. Keep shooting.

[@deannagel5143]

Thank You . Grizzly Jim . I enjoy watching You. Happy Shooting

[@bobc6573]

Same here. I was using a glove and started losing the sensation in my middle finger so switched to a fairly thick tab and three under. Only way i could keep shooting. But since i only shoot in the bush for fun, who cares.... great videos.

[@samdelaet3587]

Shot split for 20 years then one day tried 3 under and haven't looked back. Been 3 under for 5 years now and I use a clicker all the time and my shooting has never been better!!!

[@larsblankenfjell9814]

I shot splitfinger and a shooting glove for 9 years, but for some weeks ago, I changed to 3 under and a tab. Due to a surgery in my hand, I’m not been able to shoot for 2.5 months, and now I started again with 3 under and a tab, and it feels ok! Together with some small gap including, it works great

[@johnvanboolen7820]

Hi Jim, thanks for the videos over the the years, maybe see you at Meriden at some point , Cheers jv

[@johnminnitt8101]

Nice to see the Black Widow. I used one when I first started shooting longbows c1985, then a glove. Starting again now after ten years off I've gone back to the Black Widow, and it's feeling fine.

[@Wo1fLarsen]

Tried both. 3 under just feels better, so that's how I shoot.

[@braikka]

I've been shooting three under for about a year now & I find that my accuracy improved. I also shoot with a tab. So, it seems I'm in good company😀

[@Tirikitaon]

Finally, someone that understands that it makes no difference shooting mediterranean,three under or with your ears to be an instinctive archer..thak you!!!!!

[@Gundolf300]

Been at this myself but with the compound. I used sugru to thicken the material on my backtension release so I could get my index and... the finger you usually show people you don't particularly care for, further apart to be able to feel my anchor point better against my jawbone. After a couple of years passed I began to get enormous problems getting my shots to go off to the point where I could have towed the releaser with my damn car and not been able to get it to go off. In desperation to get the issue under controll I tried to remove the sugru and noticed that the slightest amount you drive those fingers apart in that direction creates quite a fair amount of tension further back in your hand. My advice, if your pain went away just by moving to 3 under. Don't go back.

[@bowman321123]

Griz, another great video. I shoot split finger, been using a tab for about a year or so now and I twist my own strings and with age my hands and fingers have arthritis setting in. I have tried shooting 3under with really bad results so I stick with what works and I agree with you, instinctive shooting is just that , what works for you and makes you smile.

[@ArcheryAdventures]

Arthritis is never good! I wish you the very best buddy... look after those hands ;)

[@jeffjackson5331]

Cool! Yeah an in the same boat as you are. I have my late-father lite-colored glove which looks like the one you used in this video. Like you, his glove doesn’t fit right for me but i love it.

[@47Prosteam]

Pick a point was taught to my brother (who then taught it to me) from HOF archer Ben Rogers... Anyone can do pick a point. It will be much more consistent than instinctive could hope to be. You are still judging distance when shooting instinctively ....you are just adding to its inaccuracy by not having a good aiming system in play. Staying on subject, three under is my preferred method and I'm a former pro competitor. A key point with 3 under is dropping pressure of index finger to help avoid string twist at full draw which destroys accuracy. To aid in this, I used to cut away index section of my tab and point index at target to insure I'm not applying pressure

[@BigRigOutdoors]

I went through the same thing I grew up shooting split finger and when arthritis set in to my hands I tried three under and haven't looked back. Great video. Could you please do another review of the cottonmouth since it got revised.

[@roblewington]

nice life preserver jim :P

[@jimmybamber4378]

Thanks bud I've been trying a tab recently yeah I'm starting to prefer it to the glove I'm still split finger shooting spruce

[@r.parker1933]

If you really want to go with a good glove, look at Ameican Leathers Big Shot. Yes, it's got thick fingers. They're made with cordura nylon. It took me about 200 shots to break mine in, but it works fantastic, has great protection, allows a nice deep hook, and is somewhat flexible (for a thick glove, anyway).

[@smitbar11]

I shoot NFAS rules, split finger on AFB, longbow and hunting tackle with three under for barebow. I like the new traditional bowhunter that you had a major part in creating, destroyed too many wooden arrows! 😝

[@Rcdrifteur]

The best for me, split finger and tab :D

[@billjov]

I had the exact same issue. I severely hurt the tendons in my palm with a #55lb great plains recurve while attempting to shoot up to 90m. They only way I could shoot again was to using 3 fingers under and I haven't looked back. If anything, shooting 3 under has improved my accuracy, largely because I gap shoot and can judge distances from my compound days.

[@fredrikantonsson5252]

Hello Jim! Always nice seeing you again! I don't know why people are going on about what instinctive are. There is always someone who thinks that there's a special way to do instinctive archery. I'm happy for your sake, and hope you can shoot without pain at least. Are you still shooting four feathers? And what's your current opinion of that? Hopefully I'll see you soon again. Best regards from Fredrik (Sweden)

[@ILhamKambaa]

Greetings archer from Indonesia

[@guaraguaoarcherycustombows3843]

Olympic recurve shooters combines split finger with tabs.. Great video!!

[@xfactoroutdoors165]

Before i shot 3 under and a tab my fingers were always torn up from shooting. I went 3 under and a tab and never looked back. Easier to aim down the arrow. Took awhile to get use to the transition though.

[@gabrieldominguez8962]

Have you ever taken a look at the American leather shooting gloves they are great. Just got one a couple months back and I love it.

[@duroarcher6544]

I also prefere these 3 layer Black Widow tabs. They are great and cheap. Tried many but always come back to them :-)

[@Crunch2327]

2600.. 2 of em mine, and fine strings they are. sorry about your hand.

[@gordonallison1055]

hi Jim. who cares? I shoot split finger trad, I shoot compound with thumb and back tension releases, and for the last 8 months Ive been shooting Asiatic bows with thumb release and loving it. Why NFAS dont allow this beats me! To hell with atchery nazis, we are all archers!

[@tjj4lab]

I prefer a glove, because personally I get more consistent result, it's a million times easier to nock arrows with gloves for me, and they just are cool. However I have to say, Tabs always protect my fingers much better, when I'm shooting my 50lb bow, I can get sore and numb fingers from gloves, but my cheap-o tab is much more comfortable, just wish I'd stop dropping my arrows when I use my tab.

[@kowalski363]

Thank you

[@TheHuggybear516]

When I learned releasing the guy who taught me said something “get a tab your release will be cleaner.” that really stuck with me lol also when you go to release relax your forearm.

[@L2FlyMN]

I actually went to a D-loop & finger trigger release. Training instinctive, without anchor points........................................... Very enjoyable, even though the brain has yet to consistently hit the mark. 😁

[@whitecompany18]

I shoot split finger with a homemade custom leather tab and that allows me to put a hundred or so arrows on target in one sitting with minimal burn , it's my lower back that hurts first as I slightly stoop .

[@muzza6007]

Thanks mate, yep enjoy the Archery journey and I would use every finger if I could be more accurate ha ha.

[@jackbuendgen2313]

First!! Great video Jim

[@ArcheryAdventures]

Jack Buendgen I wish there was a prize!!!

[@MrWhitey222]

I tried shooting 3 under for a while. My bow was tillered for split finger though, and I found that it produced more noise when shot 3 under. Not a big deal at the 3D range, but a big deal when hunting. Back to split finger I went.

[@aeorling]

Great video. Gatekeepers are absurd. Be you, have fun!

[@marcsroberts]

I use the Fairweather tab when I shoot Olympic Recurve, I quite like it. I haven't tried it shooting trad yet, but can't see a single reason for anyone to nitpick about it!

[@stevec5922]

I like to consider that I shoot instinctive - I don't gap, don't string walk and don't use any form of sight. I do shoot split finger - couldn't get on with 3 under. Of my 3 bows I shoot 2 off the shelf, one off a flipper rest, 2 shoot better with a glove and the other shoots better with a tab. As far as I'm concerned I shoot instinctive - just do what works for you.

[@elarchery]

I don´t no why, but if I shoot 3under, my release ist better and cleaner as I shoot split finger...

[@Trickydickysticky]

funny, its usually the other way around for people.

[@serb1anarcher306]

Same for me

[@michaelc5386]

As a victim of carpal tunnel, I can attest to the pain free aspect of shooting 3 under. I was playing around with split finger and was aching for days after. I think some of that has to do with not splitting your fingers also. The stress is displaced by your index finger when shooting 3 under. As far as instinctive, that depends on your aiming method, not how you hold your string. If you gap shoot or string walk then it's not really instinctive, but then again.... who cares!!! GO HAVE FUN!

[@SuperAlex217]

What do you think of rubber finger guards on the string??

[@karenannoyed153]

I do 3 under. I tend to pinch the arrow when I was doing split finger.

[@kevinbrown5321]

I shoot using a yost tab. and the KSL method and string walk then shoot instinctively!

[@ClosetGeek_DnD]

I shoot both.. hunting split, 3D 3under. It's just a comfort level I think. I think that the heavier # hunting bow isn't something i hold at anchor as long though.

[@PooMonkeyMan]

As long as you can shoot healthily (no pun intended), that’s great. It’s also great that you still have plans to move back to the split/glove combo. Personally tried tabs and couldn’t get feel right. But on another note, on a bow tillered for split, when you shoot it 3 under, have you noticed any loud bangs? I have on several bows and it sounds a bit concerning.

[@ArcheryAdventures]

EnterTheFatrix personally nothing too concerning, but there is definitely a sound difference:)

[@Finnv893]

Why is you bow hand swinging outwards upon release? Are you trying to trace the arrow? Won’t it disrupt your release?

[@eqlzr2]

I love shooting my Nomad Warriors horse bow, but shooting it Mediterranean style with 3-fingers, which I enjoy, is resulting in finger-pinch that's causing a painful spot on the side of my index fingernail where it touches the arrow, particularly when I'm at full draw when the finger pinch is worst. Today I started trying 3 finger under shooting, and the pinch problem went away. I'm just having trouble now keeping the arrow properly on top of my grip hand, so I'm having to cant the top of the bow a little bit to the right. Always something! ;-)

[@americanpatriot661]

I don't really understand the 3finger under method but it seems to be becoming more popular. I started using a glove but once I used a tab I never went back. I don't know what it is but it just feels right.

[@mathijs175]

still shooting my greyarcher palmtab, tho i might need to replace it soon.. there should be other palmtabs on the market! i have the same problem with gloves, the fingers always tend to move around and it never fits good. it should never matter how you shoot, as long as you can shoot!

[@kevinemard5370]

I switched from split finger to three under. I also can not aim i don't gap shoot i just look and concentrate on my target and release the arrow no glove or tab

[@ndubstar]

I used split finger until i made a bow pulling 40 pouns at 20 inches and a 42 inch bow pulling 50 pounds at 18 inches. I cant pull it split fingure but 3 under is much easier. I made a tab of a leather strip because off the fingers raw i tear them up and get blisters. With a tab of leather i can just keep shooting. Yes its instinctive especially at distance I have no shelf on these bows. Just a stick.

[@RobinhoodarrowsRHA]

Hear hear!

[@kentonward97]

If it works who cares what others think !!

[@1256nytom]

Is your accuracy any better with three under?

[@grumpygrumpgrump136]

I've shot three under, split finger, tab, and glove. I prefer glove split finger, but that dang thumb ring is just something I can't get used to.

[@edkovac8978]

Hey Jim. Can you please tell me what make is your bow quiver and where is the best to buy one. I checked some other videos but couldn't get the name. Thanks

[@ArcheryAdventures]

Its a selway :) check out www.selwayarcheryproducts.com/html/products.php They are lovely folks

[@edkovac8978]

@@ArcheryAdventures cheers Jim

[@JakeBullit123]

I shoot my horsebow 3 under with no tab or glove.Fingers are a little sore at first ,especially when its cold,but after a few ends its fine.

[@Balbis1333]

Try an American Leathers Buffalo CrossOver glove. With two layers of thick buffalo leather and nylon inserts it's perfect for my 58 lb striker although it did take a week or two to break it in.

[@gustlmeixner2778]

I always shot split fingers. always. Then I had nervous problems and my results with split fingers got worse and worse and I became increasingly dissatisfied with myself and the sport. then a friend of mine gave me a bow to adjust the draw weight. but ... I still shot badly. absolutely no consistency in the results ... then I started shooting 3 under and suddenly I realized that I had less problems with the pull weight, I could finally hold the string and: I scored! finally i met and the groups became so close that i was only allowed to fire 2 arrows instead of all 6 at the target if i didn't want to break them. for me there are only 3 under;)

[@zoxwolf2133]

I shoot tab three under instinctively!

[@ElizaberthUndEugen]

Whilst you are tinkering with your draw method, you might also want to try thumb draw. Either with one of these thumb tabs or a ring. It took me a while to find a thumb tab that I got shoot without pain. But I shoot much tighter groups with a thumb draw (I shoot a trad recurve). I also don't hit my arm and cheek anymore with thumb draw.

[@ArcheryAdventures]

I've actually tried that... honestly its not for me, but its still impressive! I got to hang out with Joel Turner at ETAR and he is a thumb shooting machine!

[@ElizaberthUndEugen]

@@ArcheryAdventures Haha, Joel is in fact who inspired me to give it a try.

[@pistolpeds]

See a good physio Jim (there's bad and inexperienced in every proffession) and get him/her to give you an end of working day hand exercise regime to help annul the repetitive strain in your hands. Deep massage therapists do it themselves to keep working, otherwise their career in deep massage would be a short one. Best of good fortune in your venture.

[@ndubstar]

I use a tab of 5 ounce leather. Fairly soft and flexible.

[@daniellisy7161]

I shoot pure instinctive, but i use carbon arrow, and yes I shoot a tab, and yes Fivics one usually sports archers use, its the one I like the most, and I did got some comments on the tab in the orthodox instinctive community, but I never hat issues in instinctive class on competition. Instinctive is about how you shoot, not necessary what you shoot, and btw there is historical evidence for tabs during middle ages/

[@BobLewen]

You showed your tab with 3 layers....most tabs that Ive seen have 2 layers of leather.... which tab were you using?

[@dalesearcy5734]

I would guess that some people will think that you are shooting gap style if you shoot 3 under. Yes, you can also gap shoot split finger but few people do it that way. I agree that it doesn't matter if you shoot 3 under, split finger, tab or glove. Just enjoy your shooting.

[@69yenko65]

I like shooting three under but my new bow hates three under but loves split finger. I've focused on a clean release but it acts like the arrow whips like a spine problem. Do you have any advice?

[@ArcheryAdventures]

k w Personally I find switching between 3 under and split finger drastically alters The spine I need out of the same bow... probably a good topic for a video 🤔😉

[@69yenko65]

@@ArcheryAdventures would one need a weaker or stiffer spine with three under? It almost sounds like the arrow shaft smacks the riser at times with three under but flies like a dart with split finger.

[@alsgirl649]

Howard hill glove with inserts is what you need to use it is the best glove that you can get thick and will last a life time very important research Howard hill he was the best archer ever no one is or was better then him

[@christking85]

Can someone explain to me the thought process of three under and a tab not being instinctive? I dont understand why someone would think that is no longer instinctive.

[@nixter8739]

Having some issues myselfs... went from shooting a 70 lb recurve to not even able to pull a 30 lb bow. I cant get my wrist into a position that doesnt hurt when i draw. So i plan on trying a dloop and a release that pulls from a strap above my wrist. So i can get back to shooting every day. If that fails me maybe i can learn to shoot lefty. and if that doesnt work i guess ill walk out into the woods and let the bears eat me.

[@riccoratzo]

So, i ended up with the same... Instinctive, 3 under and tab. With split finger, i always pinched the ringfinger, and with the glove there was no smooth release

[@kenwilliams2219]

Bought a 3 finger glove from Black Widow bow company. European style with the webbing between the fingers. Never shot better. Oh yeah, 3 under. Bought a second one just in case I loose the first one.

[@sjohn_8627]

I want to shoot three under because for whatever reason it’s so much easier for me to draw the bow. I feel like I’m aiming at the sky just to get the arrow to hit center though. Did you have that issue??? I don’t gap, I just look and shoot.

[@ArcheryAdventures]

It wasn’t really an issue for me, although I know exactly what you mean

[@jameshagerman7681]

Dude try an American Leathers glove. They cost a pretty penny but having had mine for going on 3 years and thousands of shots its going strong and no finger pain except for extended shooting sessions with my 65 pound bow.

[@paultaylor1196]

The definition of instinctive is in the subconscious or without thought..... So anybody who thinks about where they put their fingers or what tab/gloves they use can't be shooting instinctively..... We're all just archers !

[@harleyme3163]

instinctive is the art of the stick and arrow.... not sights... balancing rods... quick releases.... etc... I shoot 3 under simply because it gives me a better sight window down the arrow.

[@masonomasono]

Thats interesting because i find if the glove is too thick then i cant feel the string and it feels like i have less control. I shoot a 50lb longbow so its not due to low weight, guess i just prefer the thin "barely there" feel haha.

[@69yenko65]

Sounds like a condom commercial. As long as you're left smiling and satisfied that's all that matters 😄