Throne and Liberty - (A REVIEW After 600+ Hours)

[@UpperEchelon]

UPDATE: Youll hear me say "if I even get the title" in this video at one point, but it turns out that there is no such title. The "streamers" explicitly lied to their alliance and used them under the pretense of rewards that do not even exist. To reiterate my final thoughts, the fact that one would even care about this kind of deception really does speak to the level of engagement the game can offer... (im sure some people have an inverse, and incredible experience compared to mine)... but the reality of how this group continues to conduct themselves should be accurately known, and criticized. Also: I dont know why but I ended up getting Netease stuck in my head while scripting instead of NCsoft and reversing them. This is not AGS and Netease its AGS + NCSoft.

[@MikeBaia]

I'm a simple man. Upper Echelon uploads a video and I watch it.

[@Peppeblackmetal]

Most streamers are cancer.

[@ryujisasaki9122]

@@UpperEchelon thats why i never trust any bonus or gift related thing and only view what i think interesting for fun only.

[@doc_sav]

I respect your work bro, but this sounds like some kind of cult, and the narration comes off as pretty unhinged. Not trying to bag on you or anything, just seems a little off from your usual quality.

[@kaim1222]

I greatly appreciate you making this video. Everyone knew how trash these streamers were and how toxic and snake like Kanon has been. @UpperEchelon

[@yebzy]

No wonder the uploads have slowed down recently

[@robustdelirium9277]

“The players are the problem” is often stated of most MMOs and multiplayer games in general these days. “Meta zombies” that screech and lash out at any one not playing the exact same way as “the pros” do, are one of the big reasons I don’t play MOBAs anymore. Sorry to hear about all the bullshit but glad you had that nice little golden age before hand to be nostalgic about. It’s always bittersweet when an MMO gives you a sense of regret for not cherishing the really fun times when you had them.

[@doc_sav]

That is exactly why I quit playing League of Legends years ago. Got sick of getting yelled at for picking off-meta characters or not playing the way the sweats wanted to. I think the whole pro competitive scene gives people the mistaken impression that they are just a few matches away from greatness all the time and they fold under the stress of not meeting their own expectations.

[@dillerboy]

I second this sentiment. The amount of raging meta-retards throwing games when I just want to play Teemo support got me to stop playing. Edit: Even funnier is seeing people play whatever off-meta thing you did some time after because some big streamer did it.

[@Lehanna]

People will often counter with 'Well if you're not playing what is best, you actively making it harder for your team mates!' No, that's not how this works. That argument only holds water in Competitive modes where every statistical advantage can matter. Then again, these same people often don't even have the fundamental skills to make use of the meta anyway which is hilarious. It's a crutch

[@dillerboy]

@@Lehanna Indeed. I can actually explain why my idea works, and they are unable to tell me why it doesn't work.

[@DanielFalca0]

Yeah blame the players not the dev`s for poor balancing lmao

[@TheRealJade103]

This review helped me realize that I don't want to invest any time into this game. I am now deleting it. Thank you for your service sir.

[@damianentropy]

Ah yes, thanks for reminding me of why I stopped playing MMOs. It's not the P2W, it's people. I am too old for this stuff.

[@NarcissistAU]

"Hell is other people" Can't remember who said it, but nothing ages you faster. 😋

[@JackVogel2024]

I know I'll never play the game, but it's still pretty interesting to hear a review coming from 600 hours of insights.

[@asmkalrizion7078]

Games with free methods to obtain premium currency are awesome, until those methods become abused by bots and phillipinos getting paid to play for other people

[@AgentM3tallion]

Amen ra to that. The "little folk" that wind up taking over these games make them poorer places indeed.

[@saschaberger3212]

Be a Warframe in a world full of Lost Arks

[@ryujisasaki9122]

@@asmkalrizion7078 honestly im fine with something like farmer as long as they play by farmer rule of not destroy the price and keeping the price in balance. But i absolutely say NO to bots. Every private server game that i play was ruined badly when bots become rampant and destroy the economy and the game matchmaking system.

[@calvinwilson3617]

It already happened with TNL. If you look at their news they took action against RMT, which was people who bought the premium currency

[@domppa100ify]

@@saschaberger3212 The difference between Warframe and the other online games is that Warframe is mostly just solo/co-op in smaller scale so there isn't really a reason to bot/race in it. Especially, when pvp in Warframe is dead. In Warframe ppl either like the exploration/discoverability of new things, trying the newly obtained things out or building op min-maxed builds, so they can make the grind faster/more fun.

[@zumzici1234]

I made it a personal rule to never touch any games that use the mobile "energy" resource.

[@josiahclarke3535]

Same really Been multiple games that I’ve tried out that suddenly throw this on you after a tutorial and I feel my brain disconnecting

[@Darkilikill]

Well, it's not that bad. Allows to control player growth more easily for devs. So no stupid endless farm with 0.0001% chance of having what you want, hardcore players can't farm entire days to flood the market with items to sell, etc... You farm your short dailies and go right to have fun in PvP and do events with your guildmates. It's good if you don't have a lot of time, and there is no FOMO where players have to choose between participating to events or endlessly farm PvE stuff. Also Amazon heard these complains about the lack of "infinite" PvE content and adressed it during their latest "devlog" released right after your comment where they explain they'll introduce a more hardcore PvE mode without limits and with no daily limit to rewards, no mobile "energy" resource needed: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoqcYoB3d8t3fMUsi=O1BM-m3mFJ1lpU5k&t=705

[@Fearmocker]

Back in the day, (04’), Lineage 2 was my obsession. Was in a great guild on Bartz called IS with Dominus alliance. I have a bunch of those old videos on my weak ass page. Castle sieges were the shit. Hundreds of people would do it. Shout out to November, Noa, and Oxy, Noway1975 and a few others. The best gaming memories of my life was during those 4 years. I was Booda, Godsfire and Nebraska back then. I think some might still be playing today.

[@Tential1]

I just came to say that Lineage 2 is a better version of this game

[@Kaizien]

Lineage 2 was definitely not a better version of the game, but Lineage 2 was freaking awesome nonetheless. So many great memories

[@MasterVega]

Not finished watching yet, but your experience with meta-bound players reminds me of my time playing League of Legends. A long time ago, I used to run Attack Damage Malphite when people universally expected Malphite to be played as a straight-up tank. My build absolutely wrecked because, at the time, he had an absolutely broken AD buff that temporarily boosted it up by 40% when maxed. The amount of flaming I got for not going tank, even when I announced to my team beforehand what I was planning to do, was ridiculous. More than once, I carried a game despite one of my allies intentionally feeding the enemy team. Months later, a pro streamer started running a build very similar to mine and suddenly AD Malphite was broken (which it had always been), to the point where RIOT intentionally changed the character to remove all AD interaction and terminate the build. Not sure what the point of sharing this was other than to commiserate with you. Meta slaves suck and, frustratingly and amusingly, mock the people they will someday emulate.

[@Razorhunter9]

BRO AD MALPHITE WAS THE GOAT! I miss that build alot ngl

[@MasterVega]

@@Razorhunter9 I wish they had nerfed the build instead of removing it. Alas, RIOT kind of went on a crusade eliminating alternate damage type builds and drastically restricting build flexibility. I guess I can always treasure my memories of evaporating the opposing team's Katarina in the Baron pit and then soloing the remainder of her team after getting shit talked the whole game by my team's Vayne. I think the funniest part was grabbing Ravenous Hydra and dealing more AOE than direct damage. I punched a tank so hard his AP carry died from being too close. Hopefully T&L's dev team doesn't cave to its meta-bound players in their balance decisions. Games that allow expression through real build diversity are few and far between these days.

[@eddyram4932]

I feel you on the off meta plays😂 me and my brother used to go bottom one with Pantheon and Xin Zhao, or Taric and Leona. Basically weird pairs that had no business being in the bottom lane, and we would always destroy the enemy team cuz they wouldn’t be expecting it.

[@MasterVega]

Most people have very little business complaining about straying from the meta when, at their skill level, just having your teammate's back is enough for you to get away with a ton of BS. Man, I would not want to be in bottom lane against two hard stuns played by two maniacs - especially if their jungler is paying attention. lol

[@domppa100ify]

Yeah l had a similar problem. I liked playing full AP malphite support and my adc almost always flamed me for it (this was before AP Malphite was more widely used). half a year later some youtuber popularized the build and ppl started playing it more on other lanes. I just like avoiding AD builds as much as possible. For example in ARAM l just have fun with full AP tryndamere with snowball in > spin back.

[@dieandburn]

This is not a NetEase game, this is NCSoft, same dev that made Lineage 2.

[@rexex345]

Sadly that doesn't necessarily change the warning

[@theAessaya]

Now that explains how they lifted the Castle Siege mechanic from L2 almost verbatim!

[@rexex345]

@@theAessaya yeah, Thrown and Liberty is essentially lineage 3, it was actually started as lineage 3 and just pivoted to be it's own thing setting wise midway through development, otherwise it's just a straight up sequel.

[@theAessaya]

@@rexex345 I see, thanks for the info :)

[@Khadharphak]

A pvp focused game ruined by toxic community, meta slavishness and single-celled streamer organisms? I'm shocked, shocked!

[@jonathandoersky4534]

Gonna be honest, sometimes I forget you were a video game channel once upon.

[@memebro3181]

I also played the game solo-ish in a mediocre guild about 300hrs and I absolutely don't recommend playing the game for long term. The game has P2W system and favors big whales who play alot. If you want to enjoy endgame mass pvp and win often, then you have to join top alliance guild and in order to join them you have to play alot and spend alot at the same time. Even if you join a top guild, you will have to deal with politics between miserable man children. In addition daily / weekly grinds become boring very quickly. It's fun-ish for about a month but after that it's too boring.

[@Saltmancer]

😂 3500 gs sitting on 4k lucent only 20$ spent. All you gotta do to get in these top alliances is be active and if the winning allies are full change servers

[@memebro3181]

@@Saltmancer Your trash P2W game will die very quickly :)

[@serwizzart]

big whales lol. I cant believe it, there is literally a "max", you can spent to get top geared, not only that - f2p will catch up and IS catching up quickly. people dont know how to farm, what to do with their coins etc making these comments is beyond me. the game has flaws but p2w is the least of it. and I have never heard of someone getting kicked because of their weapons. I mean you can literally block others seeing your weapon. there are meta builds but half of my guild is running their own shit and we are top 3 and top 6 guild on our server.

[@Unik0rnu]

Great review! I played 300h - +3k gs F2P as that "pve soloish like player after leaving BDO 3 years experience aswell" and as a TL leader of guild for players like so to have easy access to guild tokens and buffs, nothing else. If anything will drive this game to the ground it will be 100% the elitism meta playerbase and impatience. One thing you skipped and is actually going a lot on PVE discord is the loot distribution on world bosses. Talking about contribution affecting your chance to get loot so "Rich metas get richer" while peasant have some 00000.1% to get the second roll. Healers eventually got their contribution added from healing after complaining, even if on max health but tanks were left in dust on that topic. Onto the rant now: You don't even need to be in any big guild to experience how bad it is actually. I am talking about players being kicked from random matchmaking dungeon just because they have blue gear. They do not even care anymore to keep themselves to party board, they literally started kicking players from random matchmake due to gear. And even if I would refuse such kick it was happening anyway. It was a joy to get in groups that actually wanted to chat, not speedrun and play as a team but those were too rare to keep me longer in game. I had lots of fun as semi solo pve player with occasional dominion public events but seeing the elitism snarking going through at any step, even where its not justified to happen made me wanna stop log in. Blue gear? - kick, Purple gear but not maxed traits? - kick, etc. I don't even want to know how it is for players who just started now and try their first dungeons via matchmake. Overall I had good performance, no desync issues at all, pleasant pve routine with semi pvp not involved with any guild. I had fun working on my traits, gaining lucents and buying stuff from shop for it, no rushing and just enjoying the slow grind. What made me left aside from elitism was also the timegate on tokens as actual open world grind was never rewarding to me. The day I realized I had fun doing lots of dungeons and abyssal grind just to be left and needing to wait another few days just to max out on it, made me wanna stop log in at all. Daily 3 dungeons is too little for me as a non big guild "worker". And because 3 dungeons a day for me was just not enough if you want to work on purple gear traits and so on. I wouldn't mind grind in open world aside from tokens but another problem was also how absolutely rare it is to acquire blue gear from regular grind comparing to purple. In the end the game will lose the part of "relaxed" community slowly and be left with only big guilds, alliances, streamers and players who just wanna keep up with server gear score. Personally I'm too old for this sh*t so I left. Its not a game for me and I would only continue playing If I had stable full party of friends to go on. If not for community and hard requirement on having latest max gear score its better to just let this one go. But on bright side I had good time during those 300h. Game is pretty, runs well for how it looks, combat didn't end up that horrible however, again melee players again will always end up on worse side than ranged. There's is definitely enough to do for people with limited daily playtime if they just want to chill alone or friends. But if community is the biggest problem in an MMO online game, no pretty graphics or costumes can save it. It still turned out better than I expected so it wasn't a time lost.

[@ralmslb]

23:24 Note on the Castle Siege defender. The first pre-selected defending guild based on activity, was just for the first battle. Now that we had the first Castle Siege, the defender will be the previous winner. Edit: Also, it's not just 10 guilds that fight the Castle siege... maybe in a tiny server, however, in Ember (top 3 server in EU), we had over 50 guilds fighting at the Castle Siege, whoever wanted to show up, could.

[@8614brad]

^ and I played it on console sub top 20 guild was a fun experience

[@rattlehead999]

This is the first time I've heard someone praise time-gating. XD

[@Saltmancer]

Kinda have to or people out pace updates in a month

[@tbc1880]

True but i say just make the content good and replayable for that time.

[@rtremblay24]

This game did a good job with it.

[@Xairos84]

4:46 this is the heart of all mobile gaming today too

[@MrPiratenking]

yeap, its called copium

[@Huamaru]

RELEASE THE LIST!

[@heyjulzdontmakeitbad]

Any guesses? I barely watch streamers let alone TnL streamers where they just pay to win and think they’re the best 😂

[@christophertu7891]

Probably kanon, he’s the one that complained about zerg alliances and then he made a bunch of zergs and they’re in the same guild. Epherium or something.

[@Okami400]

Its Tanks and Liberty, with Shroud Kanon Solid Sonii etc.

[@Necronman]

My GM decided to reward himself with Belandir staff the moment it drops instead of selling it and share the profit to everyone so they can mass upgrade. Long story short we got our ass kicked by rival guild because we don't have enough people with decent gears. What grinded my gears is that the brat had the galls to says "it's ok guys it just a game, it happens." Like what the fuck, you made the bad call. Worse is that he obviously have his own circle and would give the boss gears to them instead of people who actually know how to use them... I quit that guild last night...

[@androshernandez7515]

Honestly man that was my main worry when starting playing this game thankfully I joined a guild that has a very fair system in my opinion but we haven’t had an arch boss drop so I don’t really know how that’s gonna go but anyway you made the right call, f them😂

[@cozzy6547]

@@Necronman L take. 8k lucent spread between 70 people is fuck all. Much better to loot council the item to make the guild stronger in PvP.

[@pwnnr13]

And each player might be able to buy 1 good blue trait from that? Ye neat

[@Necronman]

@@cozzy6547 it dropped when it still priced at 100k+, at least in my region. I forgot to mention that the prices are different depending on which region you play. I think EU has them the cheapest .

[@Mindcrow]

​@cozzy6547 Belandir staff for 8k? What are you smoking? That is a 100k+ item.

[@Blazehoof]

So, in the end, it's just Lost Ark again, but with a different skin, a smattering of mobile grind games and a pinch of Lineage 2... :D

[@arminiusmaximus5806]

I used to be a power gamer, min maxing stats over countless nights using third party sites, making my own databases with countless hours of testing etc.. when TnL launched i deliberately refused to play on the first week, i made a test character as i always do and then created my main, i decided to stay away from any serious guild even though i was 3.2k gs in two weeks full free2play, it took 3 weeks for me to go do first guild boss run and i didnt even rool for gear :D and heres why: you are not playing a game your guild leader is, you cant do what you want, play how you want, or do things that you enjoy, It turns fun gameplay experience in to a job. Also the DRAMA, theres non of that in chill guilds. I like pvp and i like small group fights i dont want some full of self rat telling me that i cant go hunt players at night time or that he needs me to swap to a harry potter wana be! Its your game play it as you will, if anyone tells you different dont argue just walk away that person is only worth your pity not anger they probably have nothing else going on in life.

[@AaronIL91]

What most people won’t tell you. You have to spend real money to make it wayyyyy easier. And you have to be in a guild or a discord to get the gear you need. Absolutely not solo friendly. Console version is absolutely terrible. The leveling is fun. But endgame it’s a slog unless you pay money

[@eddyram4932]

I play it on console, it’s surprisingly fine. It does have extra jank sometimes with the terrain and especially the hook-chain thing. As far as large groups of players, if you take off other people’s skill animations, it runs fine. I have yet to experience anything that would make the frames go as low as the video looks😂

[@FordThunderCougarFalconBird]

Got to the part where UE said “free to play” STRIKE ONE. Then to the part where he talked about “Stupid player base” STRIKE TWO. And then he talked about the “Time gated part of the game unless you pay money” STRIKE THREE, and I’m out of F’s to give about the game already. All within the first eight minutes of a 42 minute video. Well I guess he saved a lot of time watching the rest of the video, or ever playing the game myself 🤷‍♂️

[@Yami69]

byeeeee

[@yebzy]

600 hours cause of timers and waiting That's disappointing

[@josephjohnson5415]

I gave it 120 hours but I couldn't imagine doing 600 hours. I really liked the game, it was beautiful. But I played lineage 2 and I knew where the end would be. Clan focus pvp games really reward elitism and drive normal players out. But my pet peeve was just the dungeons, I thought they were poorly designed with no pick up mechanics to rescue downed players, who wants to have to restart boss fights because someone made a mistake or missed a jump. It made early dungeon runs so toxic that I simply didn't want to run them after completing them once.

[@cameronroberts4296]

Was about to start this game and I’m glad you said it’s ok to play weird weapon combos. I’m gonna play sword and staff and fuck all the haters.

[@jesza4183]

Very fun to play but requires a lot of R&D. There will be little info on how skills interact and how to tweak a build for your play style within the off-meta weapon combo. You will burn lucent and have slower skill progression because you're trying to optimize it on your own. Good luck fellow "low tier" enjoyer!

[@OZefiroMusica]

This controlling streamers story reminded me of my friend's story with his guild back in WoW Lich King (about 2008). He was one of the most active players in his guild. He played every day, his guild relied on him as one of the best Death Knights in the entire guild, he would play religiously with them, running raids, dungeons, battlegrounds, arenas and all that. One day he had to go out somewhere with his mother and he warned everyone he wouldn't be available for that day's activities and everyone demanded an explaination and threatened to ban him from the guild. I still remember his indignation when he told me the story, it was something like "these motherfckers think I owe them an explaination for why I'm going out with my mom, what the hell, man? This is not my job!". I couldn't help but laugh at the whole story. Every MMO has a serious community issue, it seems.

[@Lodosswar100]

Solid review, i agree with alot of your takes as i approach 350 hours. The fact the entire auction house is done with real money currency is such an amazing thing for a free 2 play player it's really hard to understate it. I have made over 1200$ worth of real money in the auction house in 30 days. I have spent about 120$ dollars outside of that. With the realization that the price of items will only go down, and the minimal gap in power between blues and general population purple gear, I just sold all my valuable drops early, and now that the market is crashing I can fully equip both my characters.

[@genogrinberg6014]

you spent $120 on this game in a single month and you think its f2p friendly? okay bruh

[@kanaria-cu3uv]

sounds like every korean MMO in existence

[@calholli]

I feel the same way about Planetside2 .. and all the streamers I watched play it never understood this... How to play with the group or how to lead a platoon, or run a squad, etc.. and coordinate air raids and max crashes, etc.. All the most fun moments I had in that game were not solo related.. "Castle siege" as you explained in this-- is exactly what Planetside2 is at all times.

[@CRONKTEZ]

One of the greatest games of all time. No one wants to remake or copy Planetside gameplay for some reason.

[@easyDuk]

I left the game once I realised you had to join a guild, I usually play with just a few friends.

[@grgamer8470]

I guess right , then . Because I had played mmorpgs in the past and they are guild/ clan based games I stay with multiversus as the last free to play game I might play ( with the exception the mobile phone games).

[@LegendRonk]

I'm part of a top 5 guild on my server, barely ever run with them I'm 99% solo .. over 3.7 GS...

[@VagrantVideos]

I really enjoy this game but absolutely acknowledge its problems as well. Love to see content in my genre like this from one of my favorite content creators

[@dylhas1]

This sounds like you had a similar experience I did when playing Overwatch 1 on release. I mained Hanzo at first, did incredibly well and every game people would complain. Healers would switch to DPS, because they thought I wouldn’t do enough. Later I mained Junkrat and dominated almost every game I played, and because he wasn’t considered “meta” people in ranked matches would insult me at the start of pretty much every game. You don’t need to play “meta” because you might not play the meta well, so playing as the character that you do best as with the equipment you play best with is each person’s individual meta. I wish people could understand this. It’s heavily dependent on player gameplay tendencies. I also played a mean Mercy and Lucio, and Reinhardt was probably my best besides Junkrat. I miss those OG Overwatch days. The best multiplayer experience ever

[@Rograph]

I've played almost 400H myself and I agree about the community in general. Good thing I found a great guild and that even things out!

[@timekiler]

very good and fair criticism. I'm having fun playing the game.

[@GameChanger_Games]

I love that you still make gaming videos! I've installed throne & liberty on xbox and this video is just what I needed. Been watching your KCD videos recently too as I've returned to the game. Hoping you will be covering KCD2?!? 👀

[@TheHeartThatRunsCold]

I feel like you hit the nail on the head with the idea that novelty becomes monotonous after a bit. The reason I stayed away from throne despite wanting to see what it had to offer, is that I knew as a result of it's daily focused structure, I'd hate it just like I hate gachas. Games that also reel you in with novelty (and gambling) and have nothing after that honeymoon period wears off. Hence why for MMOs, it is important for that communal aspect to be strong since that'll become the draw rather than the game itself. I really don't understand people who can mindlessly grind out games like this solo.

[@dudarino666]

I Beta tested EVE Echoes, played it from launch for 2.5 years. I was apart of an Alliance called SSH. We were a north east based Alliance that was small, friendly to each other mostly, and co ordinated. There were some server wide wars we took part in but the last one that I took part in was SSH(Silent Federation) vs CC(Crabo Co). Their claim was that, we grew too big and were "toxic" and needed to be disbanded. So they lied and screamed to rally a bunch of the server to come get us. One of their leaders joked it would be a "2 week" war. It was so much fun tbh. A 3rd part freelance alliance called NO initially joined CC in helping start the war, and then just disbanded. SSH/NO have worked together in the past to do quite a bit of damage in some other conflicts, NO were VERY good at PvP. Always had our respect. A lot of their pilots came to us later. We were vastly out numbered and out botted "economy wise" and still had up to 4 or 5 times the amount of ships/isk value and amount, destroyed. The CC command had already started the war based off a conflict some of themy were apart of a year prior, said we were too big, then rallied over half the servers alliances. They made a "blue doughnut" to stop a "blue doughnut" while siding with racist Chinese botter alliances and lying to their own corps. It just seemed funny to me. Create a large alliance to stop the "too big" alliances and the people running the show were just clowns. I want to extend my respect to all the SSH and CC line pilots. There were some really great battles, when the servers held up, and I would still play that game BECAUSE of the people behind these alliances. Life got to me and being in an odd time zone really hindered my ability to play while others were active and attend Call To Arms. Neteast was also a bit at fault, at that time P2W mechanics were getting a bit outta hand and they had really messed with the economy system and made Industry kinda crappy. With EVE if you mess with that base level mining and ship making, it extends to the rest of the game. #Jodaceptoooooorfleets4life

[@Tecadon-i1v]

reading this as a former NO-PEW member just hit me with some nostalgia

[@GodHexe]

I really really loved this game. Then they nerfed the healer / support role. Now I do not care to play it anymore as they took the one thing that made this game enjoyable for me away. Yet they will allow these goofy players with greatswords to stun you to death.

[@OniByFame]

I run sns/lbow and ppl be nagging me about it about this off meta build until they realize I'm unkillable 😂 and hit them with stuns, tornados, pulls and finally death. Only to whisper their excuse how they didn't win

[@UpperEchelon]

this game has a rare breed of playerbase

[@LegendRonk]

I play GS/bow... Same story. Melee Eva over 1.5k they can't hit me unless they range plus I have a large pool of hp and sustain healing

[@christophertu7891]

@@LegendRonk GS/bow is bad though. Dagger would give you more evasion, against magic and range as well (600 buff) from the passive skills. You’d have 1500 melee, range and magic evasion.

[@christophertu7891]

@@LegendRonk basically, if you’re evasion gs/bow you’re gimping yourself by not going dagger. You can still do gs/bow, just don’t do evasion because any ravager would obliterate you with the same evasion build since they’d have hundreds more than you plus extra hit chance.

[@jesza4183]

GS/Staff here and people gave me crap as well until they saw how strong it could be being able to CC with both weapons. I got the title but does it really matter? No. The GM ninja looting, politics, and toxic community makes the game unenjoyable.

[@meru8348]

Honestly one of the best MMO's I've played in recent years, glad everything is able to be gotten for free by selling stuff on the market for premium currency more MMO's need to do this, like you can buy Lucent the in game premium currency with real life money to skip a little time but your never forced to and doing dailys and getting a juicy drop that you know can sell for a ton just so you can get that one cool skin you liked in the shop is just so satisfying.

[@Eleriol84]

It is a p2w system but one i can live with and to be fair i havent spent a cent on the game so who am i to complain

[@tbc1880]

Tbh basically every game with a player market i've played functions like that or you can sell premium items and get payed non premium currency from other players (so ftp can grind non premium currencies for premium goods.)

[@DauthEldrvaria]

Right below your glowing comment is someone saying the game is boring and mmo players are desperate for anything. I wonder who is right.

[@utahgetme2461]

​@DauthEldrvaria both can be right.

[@ki1631]

absolute baboon this game isnt good its a mix of all other mmos put together there is so much wrong with this game total time wasting machine

[@NathanTruby]

When it comes to most MMO type games, it doesn't matter how undefined the meta is, there will always be players (mainly ones from Asia) that will complain at you for not running what's considered to be the best of the best. I know in warframe, for example, if you're not using a heavy slam Wukong (or whatever the meta may be now), they'll treat you the same way you got treated in this game.

[@honorguard7616]

Currently more just head tilts

[@TheeMFGr0uch]

Man, the toxic ass player base is what finally snapped me out of my Warframe addiction. I used to play chroma back when he was underused and overlooked cause CC was king. Eidolons released and suddenly, Chromas ability to destroy everything with any weapon and make every weapon viable was no longer allowed. Guns no longer do any kind of meaningful damage and melee is boiled down to crit chance or status. At one point slide attacks was the only accepted meta.... Don't get me started on the level of content creep....

[@NathanTruby]

@@TheeMFGr0uch oh trust me, I remember those days. They are still there to an extent, but the power creep has gotten to the point that you can make any weapon good. The meta is fun, so if you do decide to come back, you're not gonna find anyone complaining unless you're playing noticeably poorly.

[@OniGanon]

The hell? Warframe players don't speak. The only thing that MIGHT get that kind of elitist nonsense is some tryhard 5x3 Tridolon hunting group. Outside of something like that, nobody cares what you bring as long as you don't repeatedly die.

[@NathanTruby]

@OniGanon like i said, this is mostly in the Asian side of warframe. Most other regions are like you said nowadays. They don't say anything unless you're performing noticeably bad in a mission.

[@georgeristo]

I recently started playing guild wars 2 after playing this for about 40 hours or so and gw2 is incredible

[@n8doggy733]

bro, I feel so bad for you. wow! ❤

[@SamSamSandwichman]

I truly hope you did enjoy this. I hate the idea you feel obligated to put so much time into things for us. Love your videos man.

[@canadianblitz3468]

Thanks for your perspective. Sucks that your experience was distasteful. Look forward to seeing you play the game again and getting a more fitting experience. Is there anything you could add for a co-guild leader or someone new to an MMO like this? Currently 200+ hours and as someone who doesn't love the loot system, I'm only staying for the guild I've built with a long time friend. Thanks in advanced and best of luck!

[@BFG_10G]

I haven't even reached 300 hours in Witcher 3.😂

[@XQwayne]

4:20-6:15 literally the best take. People who copy/paste their builds are suddenly professionals

[@LaosBoy2010]

You're always down to the point - Thank you for creating this video. (SolidFPS name) is reminding me about DV2 day as well.

[@Elyakins]

Great review! Thank you so much. I used play AION (another KR MMO) back when it was pay-to-play. Really been having that huge scale PVP itch but couldn't find anything similar. Wasn't there for AION classic, it's probably bad by now. That lag from having so many players fighting brings back so many memories 🤣

[@iHaveTheDocuments]

600 hours in whaaaaat?

[@ZenPaladin]

Fantastic review. Informative and human.

[@MajorJr-I]

Thanks for the great content, I've been watching you for a longtime, your take on this game is balanced and realistic, and it made me subscribe.

[@Foolsjoker]

The true MMO experience is the one outside the mechanics, it is 'the friends we made along the way' and the ones we lost to some IRL/online Game of Thrones type drama. I remember playing Ark, and literally sitting at my nieces bday party having to green light a wipe (I was the leader of the server's Alpha tribe) that was going to end a friendship by wiping another clan, ran by a friend. Shit gets real at the high level.

[@Okami400]

This is the realest review of the game I have seen.

[@Elrech37]

Good video! Glad you did a honest video big respect.

[@debroofgreen]

I wish we got to see and hear the terrible behavior of the streamers/guild leaders and their sycophants.

[@rip_shwifty6399]

yoooo! Special was the good ol days :(

[@babananabanana9163]

Nah, Kanon is the best streamer ever... he never complain and always give a great guide.... He never destroy BDO community and im very fucking sure he will not kill this game because of his presence..... We all know he has the charisma and able to lead people ZvZ. I hope that he keep playing MMO and keep making great guide... I hope he get 100000Trillion subs next year 🤮🤮🤮🤮

[@timekiler]

I'm having fun playing it .

[@TeeWhy94]

We come from The Division brotha, We have a bad habit of putting up with games that have issues and a shitty community. 😂

[@SpudsMcGeese]

I think I got to 40 before I quit playing, I really didn't enjoy the experience. I'm glad you could get 600 hours out of it, but I just couldn't do it.

[@naswinger]

thanks for the insight. i saw streams of this game and found it intriguing, but i've found modern mmos terrible with their daily quests, theme park design and boring gameplay loop. i might check it out.

[@heyjulzdontmakeitbad]

Same class here Battleweaver (Staff, Xbow) most people early game told me to switch to meta weps. Until they see me running dungeon bosses and be #1 DPS even sometimes beating Scorpions. I couldn’t really careless about meta, I play the way I play 😅

[@TheLemartes]

the build you run seems fun how is it at lower power levels? cause im willing to roll an alt account to check it out (dont wanna mess up my main in case i dont like it), do you have a link to your build :) ?

[@mr.gameandteach7197]

32:00 good to know I wasn't the only one. Game has a lot ofndrama.

[@wrenboy2726]

I didn’t know you were chill like that.

[@TheArkikim]

I was in the same guild, experienced none of this toxicity, and they had a good reason for every one of your issues. Everything was communicated and explained. Plenty of half-truths in this video with a mix of jealousy from you bro. It was a fantastic castle siege that came down to the wire. This was on Xeroth and was one of the best MMO experiences I've had in a long time. Since you aren't reading comments, I am sure that this won't matter, but I wish you the best.

[@viks4an]

This video sent me back to the days of Lineage 2 C4 lol. gameplay + drama.. those were good shit years

[@RagnarokMaster]

Castle sieging, huh? The way you're describing it sounds an awful lot like the castle sieges in Ragnarok Online called "War of Emperium".

[@ryuukichi2531]

lmao the bottom mashin while fighting dren at 5:00 😭😭

[@KorpseTE]

The meta-focus has become the norm in pretty much all MMOs at this point. It's gross and it pushes new people away from the genre which is already bleeding players.

[@gazonpirvu8903]

ia played Throne and Liberty for 2 weeks , i really enjoyed it! Actually i enjoyed it so much that i remembered that i'm subscribed to wow ! I ended up buying the new expansion but started playing fresh classic! Every month when my salary comes i send it to my wife just so i stop paying to waste my time with this crazy games

[@sealcaptn]

Sounds like Chinese hivemind think

[@PrincessStabbityPLS]

This kinda sounds like Lord of the Flies: The MMO. I wonder how long it will last. Community-carried games *can* have incredible longevity, but I'm not sure how the reliance on such huge, coordinated guilds will hold up once the initial hype passes and population (of people willing to commit to someone else's schedule) begins to decline.

[@markoholic_]

5:10 LOL this brings back memories

[@DaBlaccGhost]

Played it when my friend said "they updated combat" Fun fact they did not 😂 Cool game for community not a fun gameplay game sadly, not for me.

[@_GreenShadow_]

I have the opposite experience. I really like the gameplay but I'm not interested in dedicating myself to a guild.

[@Tynrova]

Yeah the combat is so boring.

[@-papi2timez898]

21:44 console player here. You’re not giving enough credit to the power of the current gen. Yes, siege was a slideshow. World bosses are fireworks shows. But the game holds up well and doesn’t have much more performance issues than PC. But oh god… the targetting and the grappling/gliding…. It’s horrendous

[@nugztv4723]

Bravo honestly everything you said is what i been thinking while playing the game and what i think majority of people will end up coming to the conclusion to. Coming home from work to play a game that feels like another job just to be still behind the whale unless you DUMP even more money to play kinda on par is pretty cooked.

[@Nothing2NV]

The community on my server doesn’t seem to have the same level of nonsense. There is definitely some to be sure, but servers are like communities and they feed on each other. There are servers that have a more positive community. If you want to transfer contact and I’ll tell you which one I’m on

[@bobbylonghorn1399]

The player base in the top 50 is so much better orgainzed and social then lower tiers

[@jameswisegarver3120]

I've been where you are. A game turning into a job because of bad leadership is always frustrating. Luckily, there are always other games.

[@khadajhin8656]

i came to the same conclusion but i got it already at 250h in. while my guild was fair, nice and a top competitor I found myself struggling to log in everyday to do my daily chores and then playing pvp for at least 3 hours. felt like a 2nd job pretty fast and I genuinely hate games with forced fomo, throne made it once more clear why I hate these systems. Yes you can stack the currencies to a degree but have fun wasting your whole weekend on doing them then (and doing pvp afterwards especially at weekends the pvp schedule is full xd). was fun for a good while but I turned back to bdo where I can just login for days and do absolutely nothing if I want so and not missing out on anything. and to top it all off the combat is ass, having a 5 button (at max) opener and after that just press what will come up next is just beyond stupid.

[@cosmicshatter91]

Damn a review after 600+ hrs.... I got bored after 130hrs and havent been back to it for a whole month.

[@Compulsive_LARPer]

Streamers and their simps have been ruining games for a while now.

[@LordMidichlorian]

4:30 something I always think and suspect when people start complaining about being meta. The existence of a meta is not the game's fault (it can be, but I argue it's not the usual), but the players' problem. Players who aren't willing to experiment or go with their ideas and just go look what guides tell is the best and then pretend everyone follows the guides. (Bonus tips: I've gotten to the point I'm absolutely fed up with guides. I've some times looked at guides for FFXIV or R6S for things I had not clear or wished for a bit of a push to hasten my improvement in the game and I ended finding most if not all the advice is wrong, some times not even being followed by the guide creator. Like seeing a R6S guide saying "never use ladders" and then going to his livestream where he keeps using ladders including the one shown in the guide's example. And when I've looked anything at The Balance to compare with my rotations... well, I stick with my rotation, at best I see why something they propose to be differenty, at worst I clearly see it as worse than mine, as such I don't trust it when I look their answer for jobs I haven't yet 'understood' properly, and the one or two times I tried on a dummy, I didn't get any better result). Also, this is the reason I uninstalled after a brief play of the game: I was willing to put up with the light clunkiness I felt from the combat, but I heard already how set players are with metas and I'm not willing to deal with players insulting as a rule.

[@arifnurhikam]

600 hours on the newest p2w garbage? On upper echelon channel? Something doesnt feel right..

[@Gunnerblaster]

Great review. I was considering giving this a shot but, at my age, I just don't have enough fucks to give about games with a hyper-focus meta community. Also, imagine how much of a trash gamer you'd have to be, to trash someone's build, then get thoroughly rolled by them and still find excuses for why it's their/someone else's fault instead of your own. Meta boys are the worse.

[@TheJustforcommenting]

I'm a staff/wand in pvp arena people whisper me to stop pvping, I do nothing and block me before I can reply which is always funny

[@Summerfast]

I actually noticed this game yesterday on PSN and was excited to try it out, but the performance ( resolution and framerate ) are just so bad, even when you’re the only person on screen, I just can’t push through it and don’t want to support this sort of unpolished product.

[@theindexfinger3434]

Im a 3.660 GS sns/wand f2p player. And got kicked from butchers canyon because I said. “I dont have a stun, lemme sleep one and one of you cc the other one”… and one of them wrote back. “A tank without a stun?! LOL”. I was only there to help my sister who is way lower gear score. 4 of the dps had daggers that could stun. But they kicked me for my comment. LMAO. One of the dumbest communities I ever been in.

[@ifeawosika966]

Most have pigeon brains. Unfortunately the game was designed to bottleneck people into a way of thinking. No going outside the box

[@Kameeho]

I've played for 250 hours. I intially started this game with very negative viewpoint. But it slowly warmed up to me, mainly because of the aestethics, being very medieval with Armor that actually looks good. I really, REALLY enjoy the class sysytem in this game and the way you can put togheter skills to make your own kinda skill bar in a sense. However I play a very non-meta build which I have time-tested again and again in both pvp and pve. (Disciple build). Never have I experience a community so toxic on "meta", and I've loss count how many times I've just been kicked out of dungeon parties for simply being a Disciple. I play it as a Main tank, and do it extremely well, also helps I've got plenty of Tanking experience from countless of MMO's i've been playing for more than 20 years now. So yeah. That really put me off the game in all honesty. Can hardly play with randoms, only the few new friends I make along the way and ofcourse my group of old friends. Grouping is hardly a problem for me as I've got a set of people i always play with, but trying to get new people in and socializing with OTHERS in the game is really hard when it comes to good ol make friends through dungeoning which was quite common in games like WoW.

[@Slyslug]

"Heavy emphasis on pvp" okay you got me

[@stereoNES]

NC Soft, not Netease no?

[@ParoParo]

Correct.

[@WeiLeR2009]

I love how the bots stuff was reverted after they lost half their playerbase. Reminds me a lot of Lost Ark where hundreds of thousands of bots artificially increased concurrent player count on steam.

[@ITSRICHTIME]

People take this shit wayyyyyy to serious. I be running around with Dual longbows and Dual greatswords or any weird weapon combo lol Not because I'm trying to find some secret meta, but because its fun. Having fun in video games......crazy right lol

[@coldflames1D1A5]

Great review!

[@foodieontour]

Awesome review and a lot you describe reminded me of early days in WoW and the downfall that came with time there too....

[@KenTheWise]

Its crazy how much $15/mo adds to the quality of a community. I'm will never again touch a free to play MMO. That is, if I can find one that isn't full of FOMO and allows for drop-in/drop-out participation at all levels of play. Haven't really touched MMOs since MOBAs destroyed casual MMO PvP.

[@immorttalis]

WoW's community is terrible though, so a monthly fee doesn't necessarily preserve a good community.

[@genogrinberg6014]

@@immorttalis i dunno what youre talking about. every MMO community has their toxic players. but WOW has been going for 20+ years. theres so many different types of servers, classic era servers, fresh servers, tons of private servers, private p2w servers with 4x xp, private non pay to win servers with turtle xp rates, hardcore wow if you really are into community and streamers. the HC wow community is one of the best of any MMO anywhere, theres literally so much diversity and so many different types of communities that play wow, all with different servers, discords, i honestly dont think you have any idea what it is you are talking about