Tier List: Azog's Legion & Azog's Hunters

[@SimonMoston]

If my boy Lurtz, an Uruk Hai who pin-cushioned Bozza, and was pretty evenly matched against the Gorn is only Fight 5, none of these orc scrubs should be F6, let alone F7. Particularly when master of battle solves the need to use might to strike up. Justice for Lurtz.

[@NoobsandMen]

You're absolutely right my dude, 100% -Liam

[@ClaymoreLinx]

The issues seem to be more than just this list, as many of The Hobbit models have stats higher than they should. Look at the Goblin king, he is fight 6, but gets dunked by Gandalf (fight 5). Not to mention that the Goblin king does next to nothing in the story.

[@ZeeDoktor]

Nah, you can clearly tell Aragorn had a turn of bad rolling cause when our boi found his footing ol' lurtzy boy couldn't keep up with the man's swordplay. Lurtz could use some extra shooting buffs. Some re-rolls or perhaps ignore in the ways when firing into combat? Definitely a 3+ shoot value.

[@GhouraAgur]

They just need to narratively have rules where their Fight gets cranked when they fight their nemesis. Something like an extra-strong hatred.

[@doubleoblit]

Aragorn had just massacred a bus-load of Lurtz's buddies, whereas Lurtz had done a bit of yelling and archery practice, so I'm gonna have to say Aragorn wasn't as fresh as his opponent when he brutally decapitated Lurtz.

[@bmulls1214]

If you drop both Bolg and Azog down to fight 5 and reduce their points they're still S tier heroes. It just doesn't feel good having two orcs that are literally higher fight than most elves, Boromir and Aragorn. Boromir and Aragorn are described in the first book as the two best swordsmen in Middle Earth.

[@Lerbrandt]

But swordsmanship is not the only measure derived from the Fight value. If that is your perception you should be just as confused at a troll having F7 rather than F2 (because it is clumsy and does no much in the way of weapon arts practice). Fight represents a combination of weapon skill, adaptiveness and just sheer, brute force, which is what is established well in the horrid Hobbit movies that Azog and Bolg have in spades. I'd agree they defo should be F6 rather than 7.

[@smoothbrush4722]

The rage that went to Bolg was too much to bear lol😂😅

[@NoobsandMen]

We love a good rage -Sean

[@thecreeperkingplays]

Azog is crazy mental, he and blog is always used by me to justify why Aragorn should be fight 7 when me and my mates discuss it, that and Anduil should be master forged. Great Teir listing as always so thank full I found your channel always waiting apprehensively for the next one!

[@BeyondMeasure07]

Exactly this. How on earth Azog is F7 and Elessar is F6 is just beyond broken. What on earth where they thinking when devising this? Not only are they components massively out of whack, Azog is way cheaper as well. If Azog wounds heroes on 3+, Anduril should be master forged

[@devinbrown9375]

So, I think the reason they made Bolg such a beefcake was because he actually had Azog's role in the book. He didn't feature very heavily throughout the story like Azog does in the movies, but the army was led by Bolg in the book, he was the big bad. Thorin was killed by Bolg's bodyguards, they never even made it to him. It took Beorn to actually punch through and kill him.

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah I think we mentioned something like this in the video, its still pretty fucked 🤣

[@anyheroics]

Azog fortunately doesn't get 2+ to wound heroes with the flail - was faq'd as you said! Worth noting too that if he uses it he becomes F6, even if he strikes up (due to the order of increases and decreases from striking and special strikes) Love these tier list dudes, great to watch while hobbying! ~Stephen

[@elliotc7492]

you don't do any hobbying don't lie

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah our resident rules expert told us immediately as well hahaha -Liam

[@NoobsandMen]

@Elliot this is a hobby???? -Sean

[@CMDRJoshua]

I feel the need to comment since all 3 of us are now here 😂 great video as always lads!

[@anyheroics]

@@NoobsandMen My mountain of grey plastic is confuse ~stephen

[@Glowflight]

So the Witch-king's flail can break Eowyn's shield, her arm, and knock her ass prone, while Azog hits ice and falls in a lake because of his, but Azog deserves the multi-wound flail? How did the Lord of the Nazgûl get shafted like that?! 😭

[@NoobsandMen]

The witch king and his big flail really did get shafted. #hobbitpowercreep -Sean

[@hunsler1006]

We literally have the "shatter" rule/spell in game and noone though to apply it to the flail? The one time we see a shattered piece of wargear lol

[@W.A.R.G]

Just hate us because you ain’t us, legion 4 lyfe! -Jeff

[@W.A.R.G]

In all honesty though the boys don’t see much tournament success, you take the two good heroes out of the list I think they just disappear altogether.

[@NoobsandMen]

I'm just still salty from losing to bolg with Dale against you on camera mate 😂😂😂 Nah I think your bang on, with out those lads the list just falls apart. -Sean

[@sillylilly714]

Who would win: a resurrected champion of the Valar, who took out a balrog before getting a buff and being sent back to middle earth to aid the free people in their quest against the Sauron, from whom the witch king fled twice, and who made all the nazgul basically commit suicide (For few months but still) instead of facing him, or, a tall orc boi

[@sjins1poolboy698]

tall orc boi *who was killed by baby Dain*

[@titaninthedeep]

Late to the party, but awesome video, gents. A few notes. Always bring a war horn with this army if you're playing it competitively. I brought Azog's Legion + Hunters to a 900 pt tournament this past Dec and the war horn was super useful 4/5 games. (Legion=Bolg (L), Gundabad Capt, Goblin Merc Capt. Hunters=Fimbul. I faced terror-causing elves in 3 of those matches, Saruman's Isengard once and Arnor. It not only got me a ton of extra charges, it also saved me a few times when rolling for courage checks, allowing me to save both Might and Will on my heroes. I got 2nd in that tournament, missed tying for 1st by 1 VP.

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah in low courage armies like this I prefer a warhorn to a shaman most of the time, seeing as a shaman is countered quite easily by a wraith but it's much harder to counter a warhorn -Liam

[@titaninthedeep]

@@NoobsandMen exactly. War horn's affect your entire army, whereas a shaman may not due to missing keywords. Having C4 war bats is insanely awesome. I believe they are perfect counters to ring wraiths, especially if you can get double strikes on them with traps.

[@averymargerum6227]

Love the tier list! As a long time Legion player, I recognize that the two big bois are a little busted...but the list still struggles to win tournaments. If you have the right tools (magic or shooting, mostly) you can take that 200 -odd point Orc and say "have fun walking the rest of the game! Or have fun being transfixed" I've also had Bolg straight up die to 4 warriors of minas tirith which was embarassing... In any case, love the content and appreciate the salt you lads bring!

[@NoobsandMen]

You're absolutely right about their placings, but also if they weren't as much of a threat with big fight and damage and their points were reduced accordingly you'll find they're aren't focused as much at all, also you'd have so many more points to spend on things like more troops or more monsters -Liam

[@ciaosonoAlbertoG]

To be fair, if Azog and Bolg drop to F6 and F5, as it would make sense to do, both armies would need a major overhaul. They'd basically have no good fight apart from F6, which is so darn common

[@NoobsandMen]

If they die they die -Liam

[@thomasdenney6891]

Lovely stuff gents! A lovely rant!

[@medburyminiatures9607]

the fell warg riders are attached, you need seperate warg sculpts for if the rider dies

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah, more GW bullshit 😮‍💨 -Liam

[@yaketysaks]

Still salty that Glorfindel, a multi-Millenia old veteran of countless battles, who killed a BALROG, is the same fight value as couple of CGI orcs

[@NoobsandMen]

Glorf should be F8. Tell me I'm Wrong 😂 -Sean

[@Julesgio]

@@NoobsandMen or some kind of special rule against monsters

[@hunsler1006]

Elassar for F7

[@barforlifebarforlife6019]

​@@hunsler1006 na ellessar is good as is

[@smoothbrush4722]

This is a must watch for me if i paint Azog..the daddy of them all..

[@NoobsandMen]

It's a must watch even if you don't. Our videos will be in school curriculums world wide soon enough. -Sean

[@smoothbrush4722]

@@NoobsandMen haha

[@matthewnorth5229]

Where can I find the bat rep you mentioned at 48:40? Would love to see it

[@NoobsandMen]

You can find it in our batreps playlist. -Sean

[@intothewestpodcast]

"Mickey Mouse looking fucker" 😂 hilarious as always, great video! Damn, we have an Azog's Legion Tier List ready to go but guess we're gonna have to delay for another month, don't want to come off as we are copying you guys that much (even though we are 😏) Also... Gundabad troll in s-tier?!? 🤯 -Richard

[@NoobsandMen]

Good. Hahaha Nah Gundy troll is absolutely one of the best trolls out there, sure if you have magic and what no you'll be fine but they're absolutely in almost any Legion list I've ever seen -Liam

[@intothewestpodcast]

@@NoobsandMen agree the stats are great but those base sizes are absolutely massive! I think I would rate the cave troll and the ogre above it. -Richard

[@hunsler1006]

My biggest gripe with this list is definitely the exclusive rules that should be available to other models. Like the bats chance to knock models prone. How do Fellbeast and Eagles that we see swipe through lines not get this rule?!

[@NoobsandMen]

That genuinely is something that baffles me. Would love to see a rule similar added to eagles and fell beasts. -Sean

[@chakkles4550]

Bit off topic I know but I'd be keen to get your guys thoughts on the new mesbg made to orders coming soon. That king of men making be looking at being financially irresponsible haha

[@NoobsandMen]

Bringing back a lot of amazing models and sculpts. Are they all the best game wise? No. Are they amazing sculpts and some of the best? Absolutely Is it financially irresponsible to make an entire army outta a bunch of say the metal Orcs? Definitely not Will I buy 1 or 2 packs of orcs? 100 I personally love when we get MTO love having access to outta production models again. -Sean

[@ripstainmcripstain905]

I have been waiting for this one! ❤

[@NoobsandMen]

I hope it's what you expected 😘 -Sean

[@jpchris96]

I think you guys are selling the signal tower short. Yes, its 200 points but here are the key takeaways that make it insanely good. 1. It comes with 7 lieutanants, each worth roughly 25 points (Identical stats to Damrod and you get Heroic March instead of a bow).7 x 25 = 175 points. 2. It comes with a battlefield wide banner - being conservative, a 3" banner is 25 points. 175+25= 200 3. Free Marches battlefield wide. Difficult to accurately cost, so we will say a conservative 10 points. 200+10=210. 4. Fury save - effectively increasing the number of wounds your army has by 17%. If AT 650pts you have 24 orcs the statistical average means you have an effective 4 extra bodies - 30 points. 240pts 5. Battlefield wide harbinger of evil + War horn. Again, difficult to cost, but possibly game deciding vs low courage armies that have broken. 40 points. So, we've gotten 280 points worth of value for only 200 points. This is pretty good by itself, but this is not considering some nasty, nasty repercussions relating to deployment of the tower. IT IS PERMITTED TO BE DEPLOYED ANYWHERE ON THE BOARD AFTER BOARD EDGES HAVE BEEN ANNOUNED. Reconnoiter, they will deploy on your board edge, call a move turn 1 and get 7 models off the board. Hold Ground. That tower will be directly on top of the objective turn 1. The rest of the army has free marches. Sieze the prize- the tower will be in the way of your army and the lieutanants will be on the objective turn 1 and be heroic move/heroic marching back on turn 2. Contest of champions - the tower will be in the direct centre. It will be azog, 7 lieutanants and your Leader on top of the tower. Need I say more? Retrieval - place the tower on top of your relic, fight up the stairs to get through. No chance. These scenarios are all upwards of 75% favored just due to deployment BS. The rest of the scenarios are not unfavorable, they are just not completely broken. You still have to remember at ONLY 650, yes only 650, a list can include 32 models, including Azog on white warg, 7 lieutanants and 24 gundabad orcs. This is 13 points of might, free marches, board wide banner rerolls, board wide harbinger of evil, board wide fury which also procs on Azog and the lieutanants. This army is moving 9" every turn with strength 4 def 6 troops and digusting deployment tricks. Azog will kill your heroes and the lieutanants have the ability to munch your troops if you let them call chained heroic combats. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. TL;DR: the signal tower is completely broken and the minute someone actually brings one it will need an FAQ to say it can only be deployed inside the controlling player's deployment zone.

[@NoobsandMen]

This was an inspirational Ted talk and we appreciate the length and detail you went to. You make some very valid points we definitely didn't think of. Free march is the only time march is good. TLDR it's still shit -Sean

[@NoobsandMen]

The lieutenants are 100% not "cutting through troops", they're 1 attack d5 f4, they're getting railed by most troops in the game 😅 you'll also only ever have 3 of them handy as the other 4 have to man the towers stuff just to keep it active. The deployment shit it's definitely a bit fucked, but if you deploy in your opponents board edge there's literally nothing stopping your opponent from also deploying smack bang onto the tower as well and completely destroying all the benefits of it before the rest of the army can get to it. It's rules are solid, in any other army might be considered really good, but paying 365 - 425 points for it and azog, I'd rather grab a Gundy troll or even literally Bolg if I were running Legion for those points -Liam

[@jpchris96]

@@NoobsandMen Hard Disagree. March is excellent and it can and does win games when used properly. Edit - Mate, I'm not sure exactly how serious you guys are about tournament play and I don't want to throw shade but I've never heard anyone who is good at this game say march is shit.

[@NoobsandMen]

March is meh. Good tool to have in dire situations, but would never build a list to make sure I have it. Why waste might when you can just deploy and move your models in an efficient way. -Sean

[@jpchris96]

​@@NoobsandMen You're thinking about it all wrong. You are never going to be needed all 4 banners going at once. Generally you're going to be using March at the start, and then the combat re-roll banner. You'll probably only need the harbinger/warhorn at the end of a match after breakpoints are reached and before then you can just use the fury save. Essentially 2-3 banners is all you'll need at any time. The idea isn't for the lieutanants to cut through troops turn after turn, its about calling 3 heroic combats in one turn and chaining them together. If you get 2 lieutanants into 1 model all of a sudden you can call the combat and swing the first turn of combats hard into your favour. Use the fight four in an extra 2 combats and all of a sudden you've got a 3-4 model kill lead after 1 turn of combat. Obviously this isn't going to work every game, but to count it out is naive. They're similar in rangers of the North in the way that you get so much might you can pull some absolutely funky stuff. Obviously with the deployment you're only putting it on the board edge if it instantly wins you the game. As I stated, in reconnoiter (instant win btw) there is nothing you can do. You move onto the board at the end of your move phase. The captains have might - you win priority, cool - they will call a move and get off your board edge before you can even get a single model onto the board. Just take a second and actually think about how busted the ability to drop a warband of 7 models with move+march in their own terrain piece anywhere on the board actually is.

[@pc1491]

'I'm all lost and covered in sugar' 😂😂😂

[@Gusmil89]

I look forward to hearing about your tier list of army bonuses! I agree that Azog and Bolg is wierd powerwise, they dont deserve F7... and lets not talk about the stupid base when on a warg... and their soldiers is so decent that they struggling over who is better than the others! xD

[@Fearior]

For Azog's Hunters, if you include Bolg does Fimbul also gain Morgul Arrows?

[@NoobsandMen]

Sadly it is just Hunter Orcs and Hunter Orc Captains. The named lads don't get them. Tho narzug comes with them in his profile. -Sean.R

[@Fearior]

@@NoobsandMen Thanks!

[@ScorchMat]

You can't magnetise the rider to the warg. They come moulded together....

[@NoobsandMen]

Damn!!!!! That's a real bummer -Sean

[@ZeeDoktor]

Azog should have f/v 6 and a whole lot less rules as he shouldn't have the large role he had in the movies. Bolg should remain f/v7 and beefier than his dad since lore wise he was the unkillable orc that took a big ol' Beorn to come in and take him out.

[@fredriklindell3246]

Just realized something really stupid about the War bats. They have move 12" even when not flying...

[@NoobsandMen]

Oh my Lord I just noticed that. Haha that's cooked, and it ain't even been FAQd. -Sean

[@fredriklindell3246]

@@NoobsandMen Just another silly thing for a silly list 😄 Looooong wargs and Roadrunner Bats!

[@AtomicCards]

"I don't edit these anymore" He's starting to believe!!!!

[@landonbellum8021]

I’m bringing a Signal Tower list to an upcoming 800 point tournament in Texas. Curious to hear your thoughts 👇 Azog fully loaded Signal Tower 23 Gundabad Berserkers -Really wanted to get the value from The Banner of Angmar at a 1/3 chance to negate wounds on 23 of these guys seems quite interesting. 10 with pick and the rest with axes.

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah honestly that might fuck. Also love a list with all of one model for the lols -Liam

[@martinsleight321]

Let's face it, no Orc should be fight 7. We always say 'but that's Glorfindel level...' so maybe Glor needs to be F8.

[@NoobsandMen]

I genuinely think we need to sort out the Fight value of models maybe bring us to a f15 as a max and work everyone else around that

[@kylemckiernan1445]

Forge world army = D tier

[@grimgrauman7650]

Hunter orcs on Warg are all B oder C tier. They are way to expensiv. Also you "loose" the two things that makes foot Hunter-orcs awesome :the two attacs and the strength 4 as you already get that from the warg(or you do not use the strength of the warg that you are also pay for) Feel sight is nice, but in reality you rarely use it.

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah 100% valid mate. Losing the 2A (unless you charge) does really suck and they are piss expensive both points and money wise. But they look cool so up to S Tier they go 😂 -Sean

[@TheBronf]

there are reasons to take the sythce over the club. the club is a monster / hero slayer choice. the scythe is a troop slayer and the scythes increase your kill power on dwarfs and elfs a lot more then the club. and D5 or lower elf or dwarf have to survive on a roll on a 2 and a lower chance to survive on a roll on 1. also how i read how paired scythe gauntlets work is they also have a minor resistance to shatter since that can only target 1 weapon so it shouldn't be able to shatter both gauntlets. and since your most likley be taking azog or bolg the trolls would be better fit to be killing troops rather then heros imo.

[@NoobsandMen]

Honestly other than the Shatter protection I'd still rather have the club everyday, sure the extra killing potential is nice but the versatility of the club being able to kill troops as well as seriously threaten heroes is much better imo, never just rely on one thing working, always good to have a back up -Liam

[@warforged144]

Dark powers of dol goldur list coming soon?

[@NoobsandMen]

I'd say it'll be one of the next ones mate. -Sean

[@MarcRitzMD]

I was so close to commenting about your war bat mistake but held back my anger for long enough to hear you call yourself dumb 😅

[@NoobsandMen]

If we are good at one thing. It's being dumb. -Sean

[@Roiken550]

I hardly see anyone defend azog and bolgs stats. The only ones who try are the people who play them. I would play more tourneys but i just don't want to fight eithwr of them. And the tourneys i have played theres allways 2 people who have one or the other. The hobbit has to many profile that needs revisions.

[@NoobsandMen]

I wouldn't let Azog and Bolg turn you off going to tournaments mate, they're powerful but not unbeatable by any means, for starters they hate magic, but even beyond that the scenarios and such can also make a huge difference. Go to tournaments! It's the best way to get better at the game and get better at fucking up a bolg players day! -Liam

[@briarsandbantams]

All the Hobbit stuff looks goofy. Goofy designs in the movies and poorly rendered by GW. Obvious power creep from Armies of LOTR forces.

[@TheBronf]

not all the hobbit stuff is like that. i do think that the armor of thror, army of lake town, garrison of dale and thandruils hall to be ok. the dark powers of dul goldor, dark denizans of mirkwood and goblin town are also fine im my eyes. but the rest are over done in there profiles.