Why American soccer culture is complicated

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As soccer increases in popularity in the USA, the fans' passion increases. As passionate fans try to emulate their South American and European counterparts, Ultras groups begin to form.
However, in the USA, Ultras groups aren’t forming for the same reasons groups in the rest of the world were formed.
Written by James Montague, illustrated by Philippe Fenner.
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#Football #Soccer #MLS

[@Dj-gb1wp]

Dont forget, cant compare something 120+ years to something 30 years old. You have to let it grow its own way

[@Savalatte]

That's why real Americans prefer our own sports with over a century of history and traditions.

[@Dj-gb1wp]

@@Savalatte just put the fries in the bag pal

[@oitoitoi1]

@@Savalatte yes the long and worthy tradition of 0 loyalty to cities and communities and 90% of the game being ad breaks.

[@richardalex4516]

​@oitoitoi1 That dude is blind. Vegas Golden Knights are a brand new NHL club and I've seen some hardcore fans already. It is one thing to remember history, it is another thing to make history.

[@Dj-gb1wp]

@@richardalex4516 exactly my point and last vegas is a market that has been wanting sports identity so when you have a mainstream sport its going to be that “new attraction” of the city. Look st mls with Nashville and atlanta for example.

[@FoleyBrosProduction]

American fans are damned either way sometimes. Either you’re accused of copying other cultures or you’re “cringe” for trying to make your own. Gatekeepers are the worst.

[@Agtsmirnoff]

Trans signs are pretty cringe

[@Dagpar]

You're cringe because you're cringe, nobody cares if it's your own way to support teams. Look at Japanese fans, they copy Argentine chants and nobody has told them a thing. The difference is that they actually care about their national football development rather than making a quick buck.

[@1237barca]

The problem is that serious soccer fans in the United States support teams in Europe. MLS fans are the clueless.

[@MeatballYaro2]

​@1237barca thanks for helping prove a point

[@1237barca]

@@MeatballYaro2 it’s just the truth. Talking ball with a Columbus crew fan is simply on a lower level of sophistication and than talking to a Newcastle or Barca or juve fan.

[@BrendenTurtle]

There are real fans here in the United States that genuinely love their teams but they often get overlooked in favor of plastic fanbases that only exist because a big player came over from Europe that they like.

[@DudeTotally1000]

Seriously. I hate all the Messi fans that came over and only care about Miami. No respect for MLS' history and culture.

[@BrendenTurtle]

@@DudeTotally1000 Right? It was awesome to see Messi come to our league, of course, but he brought his cult with him who only support Inter Miami because he's there. The moment Messi retires that team will become irrelevant. Teams like Miami are what Europeans point out when they say that we have "no culture" because Inter Miami gets the most headlines due to Messi. They didn't see the Save the Crew campaign, they don't see the log cutting in Portland, etc.

[@Sea0070]

@@DudeTotally1000I remember when my clubs fixtures were released the comments were full of people complaining that we weren’t playing inter Miami at home

[@Not_Sal]

@@DudeTotally1000and MLS is catering to them heavily. MLS is milking Messi as much as they could but he’s not gonna be there forever. Their prioritize getting eyeballs from around the world just to watch Messi and his superstar teammates, but those fans aren’t likely to stick around once Messi leaves. What should be prioritized is growing the game within the U.S. You know, actually make the people in your country care about your sport. The fact that less than 500k people watched the MLS cup final in the U.S. is a complete joke.

[@thepolishnz]

What ever could you inter miami?

[@Koolwaffle]

Us sports will never be able to have fans like Europe because of 1. Teams being franchises not clubs and 2. Strict regulations on fan expression

[@Baronvanhausen88]

We don’t want fans like Europe lol

[@A-se2ur]

3. Colonised nation born out of European imperialism, of which the vast majority have no ancestral familial ties to their areas which go at least a hundred years.

[@nollienick1121]

False. Acting like we want to be like you 😂😂😂😂

[@Not_Sal]

In America sports are family friendly experiences. Hooliganism is not a thing and is not tolerated whatsoever

[@lorenzonoce9352]

​@Not_Sal Aren't the states the country where it costs a family 3-5k$ on average in order for a child to play a sport? I think what you meant to say was, "Entertainment is family friendly" because that is how professional sports are treated in the States. Not saying it's bad or good, just how I see it from the outside

[@NickResen]

Save the Crew is the one example of true grassroots action in MLS and it worked, which was the first time a major league team was prevented from moving because of fan action in the USA. To show Austin FC as an example of supporters culture instead of highlighting the Save the Crew movement is sad. Not to mention the lower division work with Detroit City FC.

[@Alex-vq7fz]

Living Rent Free Forever

[@NickResen]

@@Alex-vq7fz precourt's antics in an messed up way ended up being the best thing that happened to Crew since 96, 2 MLS cups and 2 international trophies with young stars with a downtown stadium since he left But that doesn't mean I still don't want Austin FC to be mediocre as long as he's involved with that team lol

[@Luigiman_95]

Detroit City and FC Chattanooga giving the great joy of fan owned clubs!

[@XyloCB]

.... getting mad at a supporter's group of a team for actions of people that had NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.... folks just can't seem to get past that. Do you think Los Verdes somehow were behind some secret plan to try to undermine Columbus? lol... Or do you think they were just a bunch of folks happy to finally have a major league soccer team in their city, and could care less about any politics elsewhere?... yeesh. How myopic and self-centered... Not to mention that since AustinFC's inception, the atmosphere in Q2 has widely been lauded as one of the best in the country (purely due to the fans)... as is being celebrated as part of this... and yet, here's an attempt to ignore and derail that. ...

[@burrito-fr1lt]

@@XyloCB I don't think they said they were mad at supporters group or fnas. crew fans hate precut and want HIM to fail. no one said they hate people we support their team. you'll never understand the days when he did everything to make it so people would not go to games just to move the team and make him more money vs support the team

[@bronxblues9382]

I think just because of how huge this country is and the fact that we have some Canadian clubs, you get a blend of different atmosphere/cultures. Portland considers the Timbers to be their sports team and consistently play in front of a sold out crowd. Cincinnati were selling out 30k stadium when they were a 2nd division team and continue to get great attendances. Inter Miami and LAFC have fully embraced the very large Latin American communities that exist in their cities but also because of how huge the U.S., the culture in California is different from the Midwest which is different from the Southeast which is different from the Pacific Northwest. MLS as a business definitely implements a lot of rules but that doesn’t mean that fans aren’t allowed to have fun.

[@bryansmith9431]

Agreed. Clueless “Pro Rel for USA” clowns choose to overlook the size issue. They cite the gold standard English Football Pyramid… England and it’s 10+ tiers & 1,000+ clubs are all on a map the size of Alabama.

[@2joa000]

Brazil has the same landmass as the USA

[@bronxblues9382]

@@2joa000 so are China and Russia but they’re not really known for being great football countries. My point is that the United States is such a massive country you get all types of fan cultures, which is a good thing. I’m not trying to bash it in any means. Each region in the United States is kind of like its own little country. MLS as a business model is what’s ultimately holding the league back. Because MLS is relatively young compared to other sports leagues and the failures of previous leagues in the United States, MLS is very cautious about how they do business. Also it doesn’t help that we have to compete with the NFL, MLB, NHL, and NBA. Also MLS is attempting to Americanize the sport with playoffs/closed system. Idk if Brazil has that problem of competing with four other sports leagues but also football is such a huge part of Brazilian culture. Although more and more Americans are following soccer, it’s also just not comparable to Brazil. MLS has been getting more popular and the league has been regularly one of the best attended soccer/football leagues in the world for a few years, it definitely needs work but like I said in my original post, depending on where you go in the United States you’ll definitely get different experiences because each team is embracing different cultures which is a positive thing.

[@bronxblues9382]

@@bryansmith9431 I think also an issue if you want to bring up “Pro/Rel” is that I think there are a lot of casual MLS fans who don’t realize there are lower levels. I think that although MLS and USL Championship have proven to be pretty stable as the top two divisions of U.S. Soccer, there isn’t enough awareness/interest outside of MLS and USL Championship for Pro/Rel to work.

[@MackIsBored]

We are not limited to only one way of being great. Fan culture is a reflection of the people, and will naturally be different from place to place. You can hate the various aspects of American soccer(franchise/no relegation etc) but hating the fans for not being "real enough" is wild, they are enjoying the sport in their own way just like everyone else

[@Not_Sal]

That’s just how it is. American fans are always damned if they do damned if they don’t

[@bradcapello6875]

Great, just keep going!

[@Savalatte]

@@Not_Sal There are lots of sports and hobbies to choose from so if people don't feel welcomed maybe they should make better choices?

[@TheLIMREPORT]

A sensible transfers, Tifo Football and return of the Tifo Podcast video all within 24 hours.. what a time to be alive!!!

[@xomifred]

We are so back.

[@tiagocampos9258]

where is the Tifo podcast video??????

[@TheLIMREPORT]

@@tiagocampos9258 Search Tifo Podcast

[@thejoulesthief6841]

Literally wherever you listen to podcasts (Podcasts app, spotify etc)

[@karmaascendant3936]

@@tiagocampos9258there’s a channel called Tifo Football where it’s posted

[@NSCNole]

I don’t know why anyone outside of the US cares what American soccer culture is. Enjoy the game your way and let Americans enjoy it theirs.

[@Kobe_Jay_Kenobii]

I'm a Galaxy fan this is my problem with US fans, and the federation you guys literally bootlick the conditions that hold back your own growth, you have all the capabilities of being a powerhouse

[@C-Thunder]

Exactly

[@ELY3358]

This.

[@bradcapello6875]

​@@Kobe_Jay_Kenobii So?

[@Not_Sal]

@@NSCNole superiority complex

[@IFCGaming]

I can understand the Dortmund Ultras. Football fans in Germany has always been rooted in the working class with a constant struggle against associations and the increasing commercialisation of the sport. With 100+ years of tradition, persisting wars and dictators. Football culture in the US is just viewed as an inauthentic adaption of European culture without any of the struggles that European football fans had/have to overcome.

[@kayseeday]

I get that as well. I’m American and the only thing i want when i go to games is more passionate fans. Being in NYC many fans aren’t passionate. The chants for games like American football, basketball, and baseball are entirely driven by the announcers. It feels dead going to many events. I watch ultras in Europe and Euroleague basketball and I get jealous. I wish i lived there just so I can go to your sporting events. The atmosphere there is incredible

[@TheJtorres182]

Its almost as if its an entirely different country, weird.

[@andresantvi]

Brazilian teams are going to the usa to play some games in this month. Look for it FC SERIES 2024. ​@@kayseeday

[@joepiekl]

@@kayseeday I feel that way about Germany. I'm used to English football, so when I hear loads of chants in Germany being led by stadium announcers, it feels like there's nothing spontaneous about it. That kind of club-led fandom is never going to be good. I still remember when New York City had their first game and the club left a little booklet of 'suggested chants' on the seats.

[@JJM0194]

What struggled did european fans have to go through? Most of western Europe has a higher standard of living than the US

[@KateJacksonLincoln]

Trying to tell others that the way they support their team is wrong and one of the worst things about football fandom.

[@FRESHNESSSSSS]

No-one's telling you to do anything, just laughing and cringing as America tries to import and badly mimic yet another culture because they have none of their own. We are allowed to cringe at them.

[@AholeAtheist]

@@FRESHNESSSSSS I mean, clearly it's a bit of both.

[@nollienick1121]

@@FRESHNESSSSSS it’s cringe to think that we care what you think. We don’t mimic you we do our own. Your just to busy watching us

[@JJM0194]

@@FRESHNESSSSSS we have our own sports culture it's just that we don't have a soccer culture.

[@damn_jaz9895]

​​@@nollienick1121 too busy? I guess when every major international competition is won basically everytime by an european national team (or sometimes Brazil or Argentina) you have time to criticize people who celebrate for a 0-0 draw against England😂. We watch you and tell you how to do it cause it's our (and South american's) sport,not yours. You do the same with basketball(despite it being canadian) and baseball ...

[@Trotsky9]

I remember once talking to a Eruopean family that moved to the USA in the 90's and I asked the mom what was the biggest culture shock and she said that Soccer was considered a girls sport (Midwest town where you either played basketball or football if you were a boy) her son took up basketball and she said her daughter really got into soccer. I always found movies like Green street hooligan kind of funny because of the association of soccer fandom with traditional masculinity (being a tough guy) where as in the USA being a fan doesnt really have the same assoicaition.

[@sac12389]

This is also why the usmnt and mls tend to be hostile toward their female counterparts. Because soccer is viewed as a girls sport they feel the need to be hostile towards women playing to make it feel more masculine.

[@Savalatte]

I think the best way to describe it is that soccer is thought of as a game that children play, foreign fans cheer for, and female athletes excel at. Most women in the U.S. don't necessarily like or play it more than men or anything.

[@5014eric]

Similar in Australia. We have four kinds of football. Australian rules is the main game in the SW half, rugby league and rugby union are played in the NE half, for those of multi-generarational Australian heritage. Soccer is the main game for those of southern European background and some more recent immigrant groups (Middle Eastern, African). Looking at the names in our modest national men's soccer team shows this. But for girls, soccer is popular, because Aussie rules and rugby are more injury prone (as with American football) and parents want something a bit safer for their daughters. So our women's team, like that of USA, is among the world's best and their names better reflect the ethnic diversity of Australia.

[@Savalatte]

@@5014eric In the U.S. soccer is the sport that little children play, foreign fans cheer, and female athletes dominate.

[@gregwhite5897]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate an ultra group name, the Inebriati 😂

[@swaerd3264]

As a member of a supporters group in Saint Louis I can tell you the culture is definitely different, but SGs aren't (all) lapdogs of the team. Most clash with the teams regularly, but the corporate nature of the structure inherently requires that we play ball at least to some degree or we can't even exist. SGs are important to moving the culture forward, but it won't look like what euros expect football culture to look like because the circumstances are fundamentally different.

[@wolffriendinus]

As a member of the supporters group in Seattle I can second this. We've been fighting with our Front Office ever since they announced Providence as the new sponsor, and we'll continue fighting them until they announce someone else. That's just one battle, there was another where one of our Capo got banned for several months because he refused to allow someone from MLS to take pictures of us without asking. That was a fun protest lol. But even when we're at odds with the FO we still support the guys on the field. In fact, we're going to the practice session before they leave for Spain to show support and welcome the new players to the family.

[@cmalh]

My biggest complaint with "ultras" here is a lot of them recycle the same chants game after game and there is very little improvising new ideas in the moment. A lot of different clubs use the same chants as others and just place their name in a sort of "fill in the blank" fashion. Lacks originality and creativity. That said there is still a solid momentum growing in the US of fans who aren't trying to mimic cultures from other continents and are actually engaged and excited to be at the the games. Been to many USL games where the crowd energy feels more organic than some MLS games that cost 4x as much to attend.

[@Sea0070]

I mean to be fair prem clubs all use about the same 10 chants with different themes.

[@nollienick1121]

How many clubs sing you’ll never walk alone?

[@Not_Sal]

So what? As long as they’re engaging who cares?

[@JosephBananas]

​@@nollienick1121Two that I know of. That's not a chant anyway, it's a song in it's own right, no one is changing the lyrics for it to be a chant.

[@nollienick1121]

@@JosephBananas I know of 3. My point is most chants are basic and the same. But I get it. We’re easy to mock for free internet points

[@DjangoHTine]

Soccer Hooligamism isn’t a thing American fans wants or needs. Why would America want to copy European fandom? Let them cheer their team their way.

[@Dagpar]

Lmao yank spotted

[@isaacnance6926]

Plus even if that was a thing to push for, why don't we look to American culture? I think a trip to Tuscaloosa, baton rouge at night, or Blacksburg when enter sandman hits would change a lot of European opinions on American fandom. Or if we are cool with scaring people, send a hooligan to an egg bowl.

[@TeutonicEmperor1198]

the problem is that the US-Europe relation ,generaly speaking, goes one way. The Americans have the influence and the money to make European football like the American. The same applies to European basketball and how the American corporate way of view sport kinda ruinned it. American corporate mentality means everything to be too sterilized, to clean. It means closed leagues like NBA. Nobody wants that. Remember how Man. United's fans think about the Glazers!

[@DjangoHTine]

@@TeutonicEmperor1198 The vast Majority of my city’s team, The Dynamo, are hispanics. They have their own way of cheering and fandom.

[@eren9001]

Fan culture and ultras are separate from hooliganism in most countries

[@cappyjones]

It feels like Brits criticize any and everything Americans do regarding football.

[@Dagpar]

Maybe when you stop being relentlessly bad at football, brits will stop laughing at you.

[@Not_Sal]

@@cappyjones they do that because too many American soccer fans keep seeking validation from fans of European football. People need to get over that and let America do their own thing. MLS is for Americans at the end of the day. It may not have the stars you see in the PL or the fan culture you see in the Bundesliga, but what’s more important is the fact we have our own league that isn’t in danger of folding for once.

[@tjt5055]

Including calling it "soccer", a term that the English invented, spread all over the world and used interchangeably with "football" as recently as the 1970s.

[@ohmawgawdVEVO]

They're miserable in their tiny little country

[@Festus034]

@@ohmawgawdVEVOplease stop talking

[@extrahotchicken]

4:26 soccer in america without corporations is just children running around aimlessly with no coaching. Americans will not care without a local, top level pro team in their area. The same is true for ice hockey. Once a team moves in, the culture changes slowly. and yes americans think it is weird that police have to separate segregated fan sections at some european matches. Basically, the ultra-esque behavior seen at European pro matches is seen somewhere else in the US - college sports. These are the places with over 120 years of history and class divisions that Europe loves to pine about.

[@AuraHero]

@extrahotchicken The only place that I've ever seen away fans separate from the home fans in North America is college football, and even then, you'll find away fans mingling with the home crowd.

[@benis8220]

that's interesting actually

[@LordFarquhar96]

I’m a part of one of Nashville SC’s supporters groups and another thing important to note is how varied the culture is. We don’t just take inspiration from one culture, often it’s several. For example, we have chants in both Spanish and English. American soccer culture is unique for the same reason the U.S. is unique in its coming together of many different cultures. Of course, while that has benefits in terms of many new ideas, it also makes it harder for everyone to agree

[@shakiMiki]

Great to learn.

[@grahamyoung7538]

NSC let's gooooo

[@Lucks-3]

Bro I recognize you! I went to one NSC game (May 2022, I believe). There was like a 2-3 hour weather delay and the singing continued under the stands the entire time. It was an absolute blast. I love NSC's culture. I love the variety of the supporters' groups, and I love how eager you and the other leaders were to teach songs to noobs. Keep it going, my friend.

[@LordFarquhar96]

@@Lucks-3 happy to have had you! those were better times. Unfortunately, losing more games really affects attendance in the U.S.

[@grahamyoung7538]

@@Lucks-3 that was against ATL right? I was there too lol

[@rmct5645]

This video talks about MLS soccer culture. Not American soccer culture. There’s so much more than MLS.

[@bradcapello6875]

Like what?

[@rmct5645]

@@bradcapello6875 There are tons of lower leagues and grassroots clubs.

[@TheLivingPizza4]

​@@rmct5645 that no one cares about lmao

[@xaaviaudreek4859]

@@rmct5645they sadly do not attract the attention of the locals ik this because i play grassroots

[@sac12389]

@@bradcapello6875college, usl, nwsl, and semipro.

[@bryan5213]

People who don't live in the USA seem to care way too much about US Soccer

[@Savalatte]

They're obsessed with anything American in general, not just soccer.

[@SoSyNiKaL]

I think it's to bring in US viewers - MLS is never discussed in Europe, I thought the abundance of MLS vids lately seemed a bit weird.

[@mrmz1831]

It’s football not soccer

[@bryan5213]

@mrmz1831 The term "soccer" originated in England in the 1800s as a slang abbreviation for "association football"

[@Raynax235]

Views mate ? These guys routinely talk about Indian Football in the same manner.

[@alpujugo]

The most similar thing to european fan culture is college football

[@davedujour1]

LOL

[@tjt5055]

It's true, and it's due to it all developing organically. Pro Sports culture always comes from the top-down, which makes it sterile.

[@brittonporter5063]

True. College football games are insane, as is watching a derby at goodison park. Done both and love both.

[@georgehenan853]

Obviously

[@MbisonBalrog]

There are no college football Hooligans. What the heck are you talking about? Charging the field and taking down goal posts is not the same is having brawls with opposing fans.

[@silvianrosianu3637]

So at 2:20 you kind of nailed why american ultra groups are disliked: the league has them by the balls, they have to bow their heads and ask for permission, that's not "ultra". Also the US doesn't really do away days which is the sole reason why ultra movements started in the first place. Imagine the audacity of LA starting a team in 2018 and being like "yeah, go to Dortmund see how they grew their fan base" ... bruh what? This takes decades, figure it out, and more importantly DO IT YOUR OWN WAY, BVB grew organically.

[@brendanfeely7390]

You’re being a little ridiculous. I do agree with your point about some ultra groups bowing down. However what Tifo did not mention is that when the league banned political signs the next game the Timbers had our ultras disregarded the ban and did it anyway. So it’s clearly not all ultra groups. Btw those iron front signs are present most Timbers games now. Always have and always will be. 2nd the States are massive. If I want to go watch my team the Timbers play our most bitter rivals who are the closest MLS team I have to drive 3+ hours to get to their stadium and likely 4+ hours with the traffic to get back. European away days are possible because of the proximity of clubs to each other. Not to mention I would likely have to pay ~70-120 USD for a ticket, plus gas.

[@RotoTomDrums]

@@brendanfeely7390 Exactly, not to mention you can take a train to an away stadium fairly easily in most European countries. Mexico is a non-U.S. example of how a country's massive size and transportation infrastructure can limit the amount and quality of proper away days. One more thing to add: the "pure" Ultra culture that emerged in the late 20th century has a lot to do with opposition fans being in the same space as home fans yet restricted to one part of the stadium. It creates a very adversarial atmosphere. You can sing for your team and AGAINST the other fans. That element is missing in most MLS stadiums (save for LA, the PNW, and to a lesser extent NYC). Argentina's an interesting case in point. The league put a blanket ban on away fans starting in 2013-ish, and while the Barra culture is still alive down there and the games are great, the before and after difference is noticeable to anyone who's experienced it.

[@TheNotoriousHRT]

these rules exist everywhere actually. it's just harder to regulate in Europe. used to be whole laws against ultras in Europe. Barça banned THEIR OWN ultra group for being Nazis. there's reasons why the rules exist. just not enough people are willing to break them. it's not unique to the US.

[@Warum.2439]

MLS fans are different from US National Team fans. MLS fans are FAR more liberal. That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

[@Savalatte]

I read something just a few years ago about demographics of U.S. sports fans. It basically said that NASCAR fans tended to be very conservative while soccer fans tended to be very liberal. By contrast the NFL (which is obviously the most popular) was pretty much in the middle. Of course they didn't break things down much more than that in the part I read. Of course that was a few years ago, a lot of young hispanic men voted for Trump so that may be different now.

[@cozysighspool]

There's a difference between being liberal and being freaks

[@jamesportoraro8248]

Being raised as a 2nd generation immigrant from Spanish/Italian & Russian roots - Canada feels like a real hodge-podge of different football cultures all co-existing as once. There are a lot of Premier League supporters in Canada because of the broadcasting rights with TSN over the years - but also because of the English language and the Canadian connection with English, Irish & Scottish culture over the centuries. Last February I witnessed thousands of fans from all over North America descend on a Forge FC (Hamilton, Ontario) vs Chivas Guadalajara match; 95% of fans were supporting Chivas. I was there with a friend of Italian/Maltese background, a friend who was born in Italy and another friend who has Dutch background. We went because we wanted to see the game and feel the atmosphere. What makes North America so wonderful in this regard is that there was such a diversity of soccer cultures all existing together.

[@Fitzsimmons.]

F the Forge. Pacific Til I Die!

[@ktm4042]

The dynamic with Chivas fans, and Liga MX fans in general, is a testament to the Immigrant labor forces crucial and dominant in the United States and Canada that come from Mexico. If you go to any Mexican club game or national team game in the united states, unless it's in the midwest that game is going to be majority Mexican fans.

[@Fitzsimmons.]

@@ktm4042Mexico doesn’t have the same level of immigrants or temporary workers in Canada as in Mexico. Doesn’t really apply for Canada.

[@ktm4042]

@@Fitzsimmons. While there is a greater number of Mexican workers in the US in more varied professions, Mexican agricultural workers are a significant part of the workforce in Canadian ag industry as established in the 1974 SAWP agreement. Seasonal Ag Work Program. Enough to fill a stadium in Canada with Chivas fans at the least lol

[@shakiMiki]

That Women, soccer moms especially, are a big part of the whole footballing culture of the US is a big omission if you want to give the proper context. As well as ethnic minorities. It puts your discussion in to sharper focus.

[@tjt5055]

Exactly. Let's not forget the Elephant in the room here. Ultras are majority white working class men's groups. And that's the culture that emanates. In America you'd be pushed to the fringes of society super quick if you organized a gang of white working class men who got drunk, started fights and started fires.

[@tpgorman15]

It doesn’t matter what American fans do, how much the game grows in our country, if our national team ever gets elite and so on. The majority of European/South American clubs & their supporters will always deem us as inferior & our approach as incompetent. Imagine if NFL fans carried on the same way towards the fan clubs forming all over the world. It would just be another case of us being ignorant Americans. I dare any major firm or prominent supporters faction from overseas to come see an NFL game in Philly, KC, Pittsburgh, Green Bay etc. Maybe then you will understand that we know how to properly support our teams & it’s only a matter of time before it translates whole scale to the MLS.

[@georgehenan853]

@@tpgorman15 you mean college sports?

[@Raynax235]

I've been the US , NFL was okay but didn't compare but College games were very good

[@trstdaprcss]

They won't have the supporters like in Europe because they already have established sports there as an entertainment slash family friendly type of events. That's why you would only see fans cheering like cheerleaders unlike in Europe.

[@nollienick1121]

We have supporters. They showed them. Just because you want to redraw lines to make it seems wrong.

[@tjt5055]

This is the correct take. Americans don't fully understand that Germans who attend matches are going for completely different reasons than Americans.

[@georgehenan853]

Clearly you have never been to a college football game if you think it’s family friendly

[@Savalatte]

@@georgehenan853 True but I think some of them think "family friendly" means safe and non-violent.

[@joebrady1694]

I'm a manc, i've grown up in a city that is based on football whichever side you support, and my partner is from Maine, Maine has a new club coming, and while i was excited at first, their business model has left me a little discouraged...they're selling merch and shirts before the club has played its first game, and they hired an award winning poet to write the clubs songs that will be sung from the stands...I think Americans see the culture of football and clubs in Europe and south america and want to be apart of it, and through well intentioned actions, just come off as completly cringey and clueless...they forget that these clubs have hundreds of years of history at this point, and they aren't going to get that however hard they try.

[@swaerd3264]

Never heard of a fan group letting a team write songs for them, don't think most would tolerate that even here.

[@3rduncle]

American culture is corporate by nature: Hollywood, the music industry etc. It's always been a place where expression and the profit motive meet and come to some sort of agreement. It's natural that any sort of fan culture will have a corporate, synthetic feel.

[@Jkev24]

Rich hearing a 115 fan complain about another club's business model 😂

[@brittonporter5063]

It’s not cringey or clueless, but rather capitalism.

[@AuraHero]

@joebrady1694 Brits have been ripping off American show tunes, marches, and songs for their chants for decades. Honestly, it's cool to see a club try to do something original.

[@jastubb2838]

It’s a combination of American teams not having the 100 years of history like the most successful and famous teams in Europe and South America. The popularity of the sport is growing but not our nations league that is behind an Apple TV paywall preventing would be fans from seeing games. And ultra culture in the European and South American sense is not how an average American views sports. American soccer needs a LOT of changes to it and it has been making more positive strides in the past 30 ish years but still a long ways to go

[@nollienick1121]

So, then by your logic any team formed after 1925 should have no fans.

[@Not_Sal]

@@nollienick1121it’s hard to grow a fan culture like that. The oldest active teams in the U.S. played their first season in 1996, and back then the league was very low quality. They can barely sell tickets, the games were hard to watch on TV, and some teams had to fold early on.

[@nollienick1121]

@@Not_Sal what’s the saying? Rome wasn’t built in a day. Making a point that we don’t have history. Makes no sense.

[@joepiekl]

This may be a stupid question, but does the MLS get a lot of away fans? Because one of the main aspects of creating a great atmosphere is having that away end to banter with, and I'd imagine the size of the US makes it prohibitively expensive to support your team on the road.

[@J_daczkowski]

@@nollienick1121well it does make sense, if a club isn’t rooted in an area for a very long time, it will suffer in terms of fan attendances, people much rather go to the established clubs in their city. I’m from Ireland, Shamrock Rovers is my club, formed in 1889, we were playing in the 2nd tier of Ireland at one point and bringing more people into our temporary stadium than a newly formed club called Dublin City, (both clubs are in dublin) despite Dublin City at the time being more successful on the pitch. History grows a culture around a club, rome wasn’t built in a day. MLS teams will suffer attendance wise when they have other sports franchises to compete with in the NBA, NFL, NHL etc. that’s simply it. Football in Ireland has worse attendances because we compete with Gaelic Football and Hurling and there’s preconceptions about the quality overall, just like for football in the US.

[@jamms404]

I liked that Austin Tifo. You come close to the problem, but didn't drive home the power imbalance between supporter groups and the franchises that exploit them for marketing.

[@21hazza]

That so called "tifo" was disgusting. I highly doubt the Q2 stadium is a safe environment for woman and girls.

[@SomhiAustin]

⁠@@21hazzaI can pretty much assure you it is, but keep doubting. 💚🖤

[@dontmakemegothere7904]

⁠@@21hazzaQ2 is very safe for women and girls.

[@georgehenan853]

@@jamms404 trans should not be the core identity of a club. It’s so cringe

[@Savalatte]

@@georgehenan853 Yea, I get tired of politics in unnecessary places like sports. You get the same thing with all these people trying to push religion.

[@NUKERAIN]

Was not expecting Austin FC to show up on a Tifo video.

[@SomhiAustin]

💚🖤

[@JosephBananas]

Always seems a little forced for grown men to paint themselves head to toe in the colours of their team that have been around for 5 minutes or for the franchise to be new in their city. Just let the fan base grow on its own, what will be will be. There are plenty of premier league teams with quiet fans, feeling like there'd be more noise at a wake.

[@joepiekl]

I feel like calling yourself 'ultras' is cringe AF. Surely that's a label that should be given to you by others.

[@StaySqueezy12]

Eh, yes and no. Many of the “new” MLS teams were continuations of existing teams from lower leagues. Seattle Sounders, Orlando City, Portland Timers, and more are all teams that came into MLS in the past 15 years or so but already had fan bases. There are brand new teams like LAFC and NYCFC but another thing to consider with American sports culture is that the team represents the entire city, state, or even region vs being supported by club members. That is to say, a team could be brand new but if they are from your state or city, people are immediately bought in because that’s their state. It’s different in many European leagues, especially for big cities like London that have so many local teams within one area. America is also a multi sport nation in terms of fan culture. People from Philly are often Philly sports fans for example. That is to say, you support the Flyers, Phillies, Eagles, 76ers all because those are your cities team. So when Philly Union comes into MLS, you don’t need history to care, if that have your city on their jersey that means a lot to people and they immediately by in. I can’t tell you how many times as a fan of North Carolina State university that I have watched a game or sport I barely knew anything about but became heavily invested because North Carolina State had a team playing. I’d watch underwater basket weaving and cheer my heart out if someone was doing it with my state on their jersey.

[@kevbk6222]

The “the club has only existed for 5 minutes” criticism always shows the lack of understanding from outsiders. MLS clubs don’t have their roots in a park somewhere. The founding of an MLS club is a major deal in American cities and they tap into the already existing local culture. That new MLS clubs becomes an extension/new avenue to express regional pride, the type of regional pride that is also expressed in the already existing US sports/US culture in general. The rivalries between the Sounders/Timber or Cincinnati/Columbus weren’t created when the Timbers and Cincinnati joined MLS, those are longstanding, local rivalries that have played out for decades in colleges sports, high school sports, and even local politics. Trying to dismiss that because some clubs haven’t existed for very long is being obtuse, those rivalries don’t have to be manufactured.

[@JosephBananas]

@@StaySqueezy12 Very good point well put. I'm from England but many years I lived in Pittsburgh for about 5 years; loved the Steelers and for the reason you've put I was invested in the Pirates and Penguins despite knowing sod all about those sports.

[@JosephBananas]

@@kevbk6222 I guess my thought is what has happened to the Raiders now being Las Vegas. I'm unaware if that has happened to an MLS team but there might be the possibility. Like the LA Lakers originally being from Minnesota (I think) and then the franchise goes to LA where there aren't any lakes.

[@calvinjeanboi4855]

A gripe I have is that so much fan culture in MLS and USL is so organized in such a strict way that feels like checking boxes. A new team comes along and it's like "alright, we need a named fan group that we'll put behind the goal (ignoring why the seats behind the goals are usually where the noise comes from historically), we need a songbook (the same as everyone else's), we need an anthem, we need to decide who our rivals are" and so on. They know that people are drawn to European soccer because of its traditions, but a boardroom full of people coming up with traditions is what makes it so inauthentic

[@KinneyKISS]

As a Nashville SC season ticket holder I agree wholeheartedly. The Backline is the most plastic and inauthentic thing I’ve ever seen. They threw a hissy fit over a few things last year and demanded things from the club, the club said “yeah, thanks, nah.” and probably 60% of the backline disappeared for the rest of the season. On top of that they are conspicuously silent at the times the stadium needs noise the most. The team had an atrocious season to be fair, but attendance just never recovered.

[@MyNameIsDan1992]

UK expat in TN. USL has been a God send for me being able to see local football. Been to a few MLS games and they give me the sense of watered down Latin America stadium atmosphere. The security disasters of the Copa America prove that soccer here is family friendly and relaxed. The number of people happy to just go get a hotdog or soda mid game is baffling. I feel like soccer is seen as a more wealthy sport but the fan base still treat it like baseball or American football where you can afford to miss 5-10mins getting some snacks. "Fans" are too upitiy to actually get involved in the game for the most part. Never in my life have I seen a paying fan removed from a ground by a referee.. maybe in a youth game but not a paying fan in a pro/semi pro game. But sure enough last year a ref kicked a fan out of a game for critizing him. When I attend games I cannot stop myself but react to it.. its instinctive having been something I was brought up with.. over here I become just a big of a spectacle as the game itself. People just aren't used to it or prepared for it. It's sad.

[@rugbyking1540]

I LOVE the USL! As someone who’s from a city with a USL team, I love cheering for my local is a feeling that can’t be replicated (Tampa bay fan)

[@MyNameIsDan1992]

@@shrishdhuria TN is the abbreviation for the state of Tennessee in the United States.

[@EL.JEFE1231]

Honestly, I would rather spend the money to fly to Britain and watch a national league match on the weekend than waste my money on an MLS match. USL is certainly got a better feel to it than the MLS.

[@MyNameIsDan1992]

@EL.JEFE1231 I would agree however a family of 5 is a little pricey to fly to the UK. I can swindle a couple of hours away not multiple days lol. Some of the semi pro.. or rather "pre-professional" leagues over here are also not bad but it's still just the atmosphere thats way off the mark.

[@EL.JEFE1231]

@@MyNameIsDan1992@MyNameIsDan1992 Oh, I agree it's pricey. I already did it once with 4 of us. Luckily, it's just me. I've had a chance to go to some USL matches, and I like them, but as you said, the rest don't work for me. I have been to a Charlotte FC match, which wasn't bad, but there is nothing like the original.

[@will_from_pa]

Tbf the 3252 ban was because the flares are a literal fire hazard. Especially in LA. A city that is currently on fire. The ban is completely justified.

[@sac12389]

THANK YOU! It’s so irresponsible to have flares in la. I get if it is an area that doesn’t have a history of wild fires but in la? Why risk it?

[@kevinlynch6396]

I’m sure the comment section will be very supportive and friendly towards Americans and their sports culture

[@kristi4113]

Soooo…Europeans don’t like us because we aren’t fighting in the streets but instead trying to have fun and be inclusive to everyone? Make it make sense.

[@Rossoneri2]

Eh, Europeans seem to be more upset at it looking manufactured more than anything, the loud and wrong hypocrites seem to be the ones against certain groups being included

[@kristi4113]

@ We can’t be blamed for what MLS does or what USSF doesn’t do. We also can’t be blamed for television networks refusing to show matches because it was considered a “woman’s sport” by men who prefer watching other men in tight pants shove each other around on artificial turf for 10 seconds then watch loads of commercials.

[@jamesmichaels4979]

"inclusive" ..... In the USA it's a rich kid sport

[@kristi4113]

@ I was talking about the supporter groups. The pay to play model is USSF’s fault, not mine.

[@PedroHenrique-mj1mn]

No. Europeans don't like Americans mostly because Americans are trendy and bandwagoners. Y'all support whoever is popular at the moment. I've met several Americans who switched allegiance to whoever was doing well in the NFL at that moment. Telling others how to support indeed sucks, but Americans in particular don't really support anything from the heart, it's just a momentum thing just like everything about their culture.

[@juanners715]

Great content. Very happy to see more deep dives of my favorite league on such a professional and well executed video. Thank you for shining a spotlight on the topic and beyond that highlighting a complex topic with the nuance it deserves.

[@squeegeedaniels2105]

Im a proud timbers fan. Weve been a club since the 70s and thats a while for America. We fought our freedom of speech ban and won. Football is political if people want to watch braindead corporate sports they can watch the NFL and the 4 hours of commercials and 12 minutes of gameplay 😂

[@georgehenan853]

Sports are not supposed to be political

[@fazleyff]

@@georgehenan853Sports can't be political unless it aligns with my views

[@georgehenan853]

@ no sports aren’t supposed to be political period

[@dgh6g33gf]

@@georgehenan853Bread and games, sports were created as state policy by the romans, always has been political, the biggest soccer competition in the world is the world cup

[@jensg.9457]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@georgehenan853 sports has always been politicial and will always be political. Banning and encouraging political expressions is both political. As is hosting tournaments or games or not hosting tournaments or games. Politicians and rulers of all kind have always used sports for promoting themselves and their agendas and that won‘t change. Expecting anything else would be naive.

[@ryanromero2554]

I’m a member of District 9 Ultras from LAFC and in the video/sketch am the one in the bucket hat right underneath the guy with the megaphone. We appreciate this video/message being sent out there. The attention we draw goes to show we are all not the same. Yes there may be moments that are very cringe but our passion and support for our clubs can be undying. As you stated the 3252 try to set the record straight when it comes to this and are always fighting to make sure MLS knows a lot of these strict rules and regulations make it harder for us to have a proper football match. pyro is not a crime for instance is one of our messages. following our first mls cup appearance many of my fellow ultras were banned and forbidden from returning to the pitch following our pyro display in which was very organized and no injuries sustained. We in LA embrace the active Ultra culture and try to lead the way in changing europes mind that we have just as much passion as well as firms that could live up to the standard.

[@bubbabear244]

2:55 Inebriatti got banned and disbanded because they set off a fire at TD Place in Ottawa.

[@Crud7]

****Burned their own banners

[@rbh9216]

@@Crud7 doesn't get more anti-ultra than that 🤣

[@activistsunited3900]

To the people in the comments whos wondering why people outside the us "cares" about the soccer in the us: Most of us who watch football/soccer observe/discuss the soccer/football scene around the globe as a whole (not just the us) do it for the same reason why we talk about any soccer/football scene of any country out side our own country in europe: Beacuse we we care about football/soccer, our passion for the game dosent stay within our borders, we love the culture so much we even watch in other countries cus we love pyro etc and we observe the culture in other countries to maybe even learn. Another reason we observe/discuss the scene in other countries (incl the us) is the same reason why people in general observe what happends in the world when it comes to politics: we are people, not islands, we dont want to isolate ourselves, otherwise we wouldnt even watch our national teams. We observe what happends in the outside world (not necessarily cus we wanna copy them or dictate other teams or fans) cus what happends there , could happen in our country, like VAR.

[@holyholyholy40]

The 2nd tier, USL culture I find is a great example of football culture that, is very familiar to the MLS but without so much of the "corporate" look and much more locally focused. I think that if the MLS ultras are tired or get barred from the MLS for whatever reason, the USL is a welcome place for them.

[@1draigon]

As long as fans sometimes have to travel hours to watch their „local“ club there won’t be real fandoms like Europe or South America has them

[@E_Bailey]

I hope American "ultras" DON'T import European ultra behaviors. We have sports rivalries that have been around for 100+ years in baseball, football, hockey, and at the college level. And while passionate, they are nowhere near as violent as some European club soccer rivalries. Good. A rare European import (along with Americans saying "Football" or "FC") that I hope never gets traction.

[@gbalph4]

Leave the violence behind, but bring the singing and jumping. That would allow both to exist. Also still called soccer so I agree with that. However the issue could be that visiting fans often mix with local fans so yeah it’s gonna be difficult to have unified movement.

[@canderson7776]

​@@gbalph4one affects the other. Without the vitriol and violence you simply don't get the same level of fanaticism. And there's always levels to the violence ofc, small fist brawls are different from bloody knife fighting.

[@JJM0194]

5 soccer matches across Europe, violence wasn't a thing, im not sure what violence they are pretending that's going on, it's 2024, football hooliganism is dying.

[@dc6521]

Nobody is asking americans to be violent (on occasion, they don't need any help on that front), we just want them to be less embarrassing.

[@thztan7492]

I always like James Montague writing for tifo video. The perspective is very unique for football & more like learning many cultural aspect around the world 😊👍

[@SirKnobofCheese]

Ultras are cringey as a whole whether its in Europe or the US. Its all a performance.

[@allenqueen]

Fans can do whatever they want. Culture from other places always has room to inspire newer cultures. It is the franchise model and lack of promotion and relegation which makes it stink

[@bradcapello6875]

So what.

[@jamespark6416]

Unlike Europe soccer doesn’t have a monopoly in the sporting landscape in America. Football,Basketball,Baseball and Hockey enjoy regional popularity across the US. Also stop assuming only these franchise leagues are the only pro sports that exist there. Plenty of minor league teams enjoy passionate fanbases it’s just a relatively new leauges can’t risk loosing its most lucrative markets like New York,LA and Atlanta.

[@eboygboy3249]

I think europeans forget to notice that america is an ocean across with a very different set of cultural values and ratther look at it through a european mindset which of course is gonna negatively affect their persective on soccer over here

[@shakiMiki]

That literally tells us nothing. Hence why they have gone to the trouble of making a video to explain cultural differences.

[@newsaxonyproductions7871]

I don't know anything about "ultras" or "curvas", or a lot of the specifics about what Tifo' talking about in this video, so I would love an explanatory video from Tifo basically explaining all that stuff about this apparent European soccer culture

[@sfcomposer]

The culture is completey different. I will say that I think more fans would watch MLS matches if 1. they had better access to these games 2. they changed to promo/relegation 3. do away with drafting Football fans do not want to watch a match that is like the NFL or NBA. We want to watch football. We may not have deep history with our clubs, but we still could have a rich culture.

[@caradonioATX]

You state “the culture is completely different” and then go on to list three components of the sport in the US that are born out of necessity due to our different sport’s culture… Access is more limited because the sporting landscape is exponentially more crowded; pro/rel only works when you have a pyramid whereas we have an unusually shaped hour glass with a huge base (youth soccer), almost no breadth when it comes to a second, third, and fourth divisions and then a very developed top division (relative to the other professional divisions in the US); Drafting players stems from another US oddity where a huge proportion of our potential professional players go to college (almost always hundreds of miles away from where they were raised) during the most important developmental phase a player will go through. Only their development usually stalls due to the short college season and the lack of quality coaching, so every year we end up with thousands of underdeveloped 21ish year olds that have no real roots with a professional club seeking a spot with an MLS club that they have no connection… Different does not have to mean worse, but we will never develop into what Europe is because we’ve never been what European soccer was…

[@bradcapello6875]

​@@caradonioATX Exacly. Be the best version of you self.

[@sportzfrk99]

The draft is almost irrelevant for MLS. Very few players that are drafted make meaningful contributions to their clubs anymore. It is a part of culture in the US sports, but for MLS, it's done almost as a nod to that culture now, and not as a meaningful way to build rosters. The union for the women's league, NWSL, recently got the administrators and owners to agree to disband their draft, which greatly benefits incoming players.

[@caradonioATX]

@ So the women’s union, which is solely responsible for representing and protecting its member’s interests, has successfully eliminated a guaranteed injection of new talent every season? The women’s game is completely different in the US in that, in opposition to the men’s game, the primary path to becoming professional in the women’s game has always been through having a successful collegiate career. In this aspect, the women’s and the men’s game and cannot be compared… The elimination of the draft for the women appears to be a consolidation of power by the veteran women in the US game and will likely end up hurting the young players trying to break into the league. Sometimes an irrelevant process in one organization can be a viable and valued process in another organization…

[@AndySport]

@@caradonioATX The players are still joining the league; they can just choose which team to go for instead of being assigned a team. If you follow any NWSL news, this offseason has been a constant flow of college players signing for teams. Removing the draft gave incoming players agency. It didn't at all reduce the inflow of young players into the league.

[@FLORIDA_MAN_813]

Went to an Arsenal v Orlando City game few years back. Bought the cheapest tickets I could find. Turns out it was in Orlando supporters section. I was told by the staff if I didn’t leave I would be assaulted because “our fans are hardcore”. I sat in the away end and the entire supporters section was empty. The atmosphere was terrible. The biggest game of their season and their fans couldn’t even be bothered to show up

[@Arthur_1998]

There are many Americans like myself in this country that want Pro/Rel, and similar league structures like the ones in Europe. But the USSF is a stubborn bunch, the main things would be to get rid of the Cross border league with Canada.

[@khaitranngoc4176]

why wouldn't the USSF want that? having a chance to play in the MLS, would, theoretically, be a better financial incentives for them no?

[@curtisbullock9739]

So tough because relegation would easily mean the death of many MLS clubs - but Pro/rel is an essential part of the games having meaning. I want it, but I don’t think MLS will ever get it.

[@radaii1555]

​@@khaitranngoc4176 MLS teams are more stable investments to the owners if there is no risk of relegation. Any new teams will have to pay a large fee to enter the MLS, the next teams wanting to join the MLS will have to pay $200million+.

[@ektran4205]

@@curtisbullock9739 the mlspa will veto pro/rel every time because unions dont want competition

[@maxammons]

​@@khaitranngoc4176 the USSF and MLS ownership are connected at the hip both financially and on who serves on the USSF board. The USSF is supposed to represent what's best for the game as a whole in the US, but in reality they now mostly focus on what's best for MLS. What's best for MLS is being owners of a scarce resource, the top division of professional soccer in the US. MLS owns all teams in the league. There are no independent clubs operating in the professional division in the US. Pro/Rel would mean an MLS team may lose value due to relegation which is not beneficial for MLS, therefore USSF won't ever force it to happen.

[@AJ-ct8om]

Ive become a big fan of MLS over the past decade or so, and part of why i like it is its charm. It is, on the field, football as normal. In the stands, its different in every quarter. Sellout stadiums, some with no atmosphere some with genuinely brilliant atmospheres. I cant knock fans of the sport i love, from a country that mocked it for many years finally getting on board in its own unique way. MLS Cup is genuinely a thrill tonwatch, and some of the atmospheres and the weather conditions make the sport a pleasure to watch, imo

[@g00dbyemisterA]

i think it’s wholesome to see the politics of US football fans being more progressive but i think one big problem is has is that with MLS being a franchise league, fans are there at the owner’s discretion to a much greater degree than in europe so you see any attempts to grow organic fandom being nipped in the bud in favour of safer, more profitable ventures. also this may be me not ‘getting’ mls but where are the stories if there’s no promotion/relegation, take atletico madrid, relegated this century, also two time league champions this century, or forest being champions league winners, down and out and now back near the peak of the league. it just feels like MLS puts boundaries on how low things can go for the story arc of clubs which makes the highs a little hollow. european fan culture existed, then got curtailed and invaded by corporations, the corporations stacked the MLS deck from the start. i wanna be wrong because i like seeing sports culture spread but i don’t think corporate football begets any good fan cultures

[@luthermanhole8666]

you're completely right, MLS is a massive barrier to the development of a real grassroots working class football culture here. that's why the majority of football fans here don't watch MLS and never will. that's the REAL reason "American soccer culture is complicated"

[@TheMILVSCR]

I'm a huge soccer fan. It's my absolute favorite sport, and it always will be. I have coached youth soccer for years (at least 20), and I want it to grow. One of the major reasons we don't have a decent international squad is that other countries allow youth to practice nonstop... and we put limitations on how long we can practice, play, etc. I will always be a fan, but I wish more of the US gave it a legitimate chance to flourish.

[@void_skyy]

Was very surprised to see my beloved Austin FC mentioned! So damn proud of our tifos, our support, and our passion!

[@SomhiAustin]

💚🖤

[@FoobRMann]

The video hinted at but never acknowledged that European Ultras are often fashy AF...

[@dajjukunrama5695]

Sounds dysgenic

[@georgehenan853]

@@void_skyy cringe

[@RThosCoulahan]

I would like to clarify the Toronto FC Inebriatti example. The one flare they got banned for was not approved, thrown onto an artificial turf pitch (playing a Cup game away at a lower division team), and actually lit the pitch surface on fire. It got put out quickly, but this was shitheadedness of the highest order. There's a reason why pyro has to be approved: fire is no joke.

[@LAGalactico96]

LAFC sending their fans to dortmund to "learn how to be fans" will never not be funny. The least organic, most plastic fans in the league. Clowns.

[@tonyarroyo2697]

Levas 😂

[@jmal]

That's why I like to call them, LA Former Chivas. 😂 They can kiss our 6 rings and cry about it. 🤍💙💛

[@davedujour1]

Chivas USA 2.0

[@adrianjosedejesus7112]

I feel like this is accounting for how much influence we get from American football fans from the NFL and especially college football

[@mokkaveli]

"Dont mess with trans Texans" Is it a football match or an LGBT rally.....

[@josephbryan729]

Exactly. That’s so weird and perverted. Keep that stuff in the bedroom.

[@kopite833]

In countries like America and Australia, where other football codes are more popular, soccer is adversarially policed, and soccer fans pre-determined as guilty by perceived association to hooliganism of past examples in other countries. There's also an insecurity at the heart of US and Australian rules football from an awareness of their insignificance on the global stage next to soccer, that causes fans of those games to lash out at soccer fans (e.g. "you're a bunch of diving pansies", "why don't you play a real man's sport?", "your fans are hooligans and thugs")

[@augustolasta2468]

I always think about how in Spain, only a few teams are allowed to have the word “Real” in their club name, as is a title given by the Crown. Then we have Real Salt Lake.

[@falsemcnuggethope]

That just means the opposite of fake.

[@charlesray9674]

@augustolasta2468 Any Spanish club could have "Real" in its name. You claim only a few teams are allowed to have it but if you check each football association in each of the provinces, you would be surprised how inaccurate that statement is. It seems that every barrio would have one club that is "Real". 😂

[@tr0fast280]

Does Tifo Football know what "ultras" are? Just because your singing chants doesn't make you or your group ultras.

[@anthonyfrederick3214]

Message to “European” ultras. We don’t get it wrong. Soccer belongs to everyone and should be inclusive.

[@b.richardsalas1393]

I'm a fan of 2 CONCACAF teams. One team has over 100 years of history while the other is less than 30 years of history.

[@ilikechamomile4502]

The culture is different literally because of money, the league is for profit you buy your way to the league and they want as much people in the stadium as possible so the mls tries to look family friendly as possible so that’s why they are so anti ultras 😭😭😭

[@Savalatte]

Are you honestly suggesting the big leagues in Europe are NON-PROFIT? 🤑They're mostly owned foreign sugar daddies and some are on the stock exchange.

[@000GOLDENGUN000]

Shocked we haven’t had a video about Bristol Rovers’ promo to L1 on GD final game of the season. Would make a great vid!

[@DudeTotally1000]

No mention of any of the DC United ultra groups is shameful. But I guess that means ours are less problematic lol

[@PurpleGhost666]

As an American I couldn't tell you a single American Soccer player. Most Americans don't care that much about Soccer.

[@revajnix]

Can anyone explain how Don't Mess with Trans Texas is not a political banner?

[@AuraHero]

Is being a cis person political?

[@revajnix]

@AuraHero given gender is a social construct then yes I suppose it is...

[@fazleyff]

Is "No to Racism" political for you?

[@revajnix]

@fazleyff yes but it does not mean I do not agree

[@revajnix]

Almost everything is political which is why it is naive to when people say politics and sport should not mix while supporting clubs owned by sexist and racist regimes.

[@bryansmith9431]

The problem will always be size. England has more than 10 tiers and more than 1,000 clubs. England is the size of Alabama. We don’t have a D-1-2-3 at the moment. We have a D1-3-6 (at best) such is the enormous financial gaps between divisions. That disparity has been in place for generations and isn’t going to lessen anytime soon.

[@burner8959]

Yes American soccer culture can be summed up in under six minutes. No mention of history. No mention of Bethlehem Steel. No mention of the Ukranian Nationals. It's hard to explain to others American soccer culture when you don't know the whole story nor can it be surmised in under 6 minutes. But thanks for your half-hearted effort, I'm sure it will get you the clicks you were looking for.

[@PedroHenrique-mj1mn]

Americans are trendy and bandwagoners. Y'all support whoever is popular at the moment. I've met several Americans who switched allegiance to whoever was doing well in the NFL at that moment. Telling others how to support indeed sucks, but Americans in particular don't really support anything from the heart, it's just a momentum thing just like everything about their culture.

[@burner8959]

@@PedroHenrique-mj1mn You've obviously never been to Philadelphia nor met someone from there. Please go visit South Philly and tell the first old Italian man you see, that you doubt the authenticity of his fandom. Make sure your dental records are up to date. You know nothing and it shows.

[@schtreg9140]

I think what most people - both from the video creators and the people in the comments - forget over oversee is the element of respect. From my experience, ultras in European clubs are primarily put off by how hollow the American scene feels. It's not that they are doomed either way - whether they try to copy or to create their own. It's more so that if they want respect, they have to earn it. We all know that the level of passion between American clubs and European or South American ones is not comparable. That's the key element. I see a lot of excuses about regulations stifling fan expressions in the US. Maybe so, but in many European and South American countries fans, ultras and clubs had to survive literal wars and dictatorships. Can you blame them for looking down on the American attempted (inauthentic?) adaptation when they can't even push back about the ludicrous laws they have there right now?

[@yatithebeast]

I think this video makes a good point that the MLS is way too corporatized. They suffocate fan voices and actions so they enforce a sanitized, PG, vanilla image. Something that can’t be helped is the fact that teams are much newer than clubs in Europe. Many of the clubs in Europe have been around since the late 1800s- early 1900s. So European clubs had a longer time to develop their fan culture and it also became a part of their lives and they grow up in families that support one club or another. In the US there are many teams that have been created in the past 5 years. So from an outside perspective, it’s hard for them not to see MLS fans as plastic. And I don’t blame them, like how can you be a passionate supporter for a club that has only existed for a couple of months? Another big hindrance is the fact that teams are franchises that can an will move to another city if there is a profit in it. That notion is completely unheard of in Europe, like you would never see a club like Juventus (who plays in Torino, Italy) move to Rome or you wouldn’t see Manchester United move to London. Another thing is that soccer is just not that popular in the US. Sure the popularity of it has been rising, but that doesn’t mean that they are becoming fans of any MLS team. Personally, I don’t like the MLS for all of these reasons. I find it all very boring from the stadium atmosphere (many of the teams don’t even play on proper soccer pitches) to the actual action on the field. It’s an overall inferior product.

[@BLU_meaway]

The truth is those of us outside the USA couldn't give two Fs how FOOTBALL is taken in the USA.

[@dcapitan7]

🇺🇸 already has its own sporting culture where (A) atmospheres are generally organic, (B) fanbases are passionate and loud, (C) fans of teams have their own distinct, different traditions, (D) teams have their own fight songs and in some cases anthems, (E) a team's identity is rooted to its state (or region within a state), or an American military wing, or in a few cases, its religion, (F) chants and songs are just about all in English...or what passes for English and (G) have large marching bands. This is seen in college football.

[@johngalbreath9394]

Instead of going to Europe, we need to look inside the US to find what makes a passionate fanbase. It's not really there at the pro level (save for a few exceptions) but the college level has some of the most passionate fans you'll ever meet

[@dcapitan7]

@johngalbreath9394 I'm surprised ⚽️ fans in Ohio, as far as I know, haven't included "Hey Sloopy" into their club's chant/song repertoire, or fans in Nashville have not, as far as I know, added "Rocky Top." These songs hold special meaning in their respective states. Other states have similarly meaningful songs that can be used by fans.

[@georgehenan853]

@@dcapitan7 maybe those fans would be taken more seriously if they did that

[@rbh9216]

only real Ultras in MLS are Montréal and San Jose

[@prestonleffler1062]

Capo for Austin FC here. There's a lot of regulations we face which don't allow us to create the environment we would love to see and show off. America having more of a police presence along with there being strict fire regulations on all venues, it's very difficult. Beyond that, the clubs aren't as engaging with their hardcore fans as clubs in Europe which may have existed and had longer relationships. We've tried to get players bussed in during major games so we could throw a party in the streets and we've been denied by the club and previous coach, labeling it as a distraction. We love our female capos and couldn't do it without them. This is definitely a way the US is unique, but that's a nuance of being created in a newer era. Female presence in the overall game and support must continue to grow and to be celebrated. Credit to all the groups across the country building up their own cultures and lifting up their communities and creating future fans to grow the support for the sport in the US.

[@SomhiAustin]

Well said, Preston! Keep rocking on the stand 💚🖤

[@wolffriendinus]

Wait, so your front office doesn't let you throw a party in the streets, or was that just if they bussed in the players? Are you able to do a march to the match? Do you get invited to the practice sessions to wave flags and sing for the players while they practice? I can't imagine not doing any of that 😯

[@thedominatior39]

You have to build fanbases over time like MLS isnt even 30 years old now compare that to teams that have been around for over 100 years in every sport Liverpool, New York Yankees, Green Bay Packers for examples they have generations to build up there fanbases. You cant expect the same dedication for a team that just started.

[@bradenhazle4378]

I agree about corporations being put on a pedestal but flares and other pyro should not be used in a confined space, like it's common sense. Not only is that a fire hazard but smoke messes with the players. Also being so invested to start fights or riot over a game or rivalry is idiotic. It's not that serious.

[@HappySisyphus0]

you can't be serious about the flares thing

[@bradenhazle4378]

@@HappySisyphus0 It's literally a fire hazard on dry grass or banners/tifos... It's fire. Do you not understand that? And it produces smoke which again messes with the players and isn't great for other people around you.

[@HappySisyphus0]

@@bradenhazle4378 how many fires were cause by flares in stadiums?

[@bradenhazle4378]

​@@HappySisyphus0 Look up the fire started in Amsterdamn for an Ajax game. And an Orlando flare burning a child. Allowing something on fire in a confined space is dumb af. Why do you think fireworks aren't allowed?

[@Monaleenian]

Yeah, the pyro nonsense. They've brought it into rugby too in recent years. It used to be something that you'd see at the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff before big rugby matches and it completely detracts from the viewing experience at the start of the match because you can hardly see the action through all the smoke. Whoever performed the cost/benefit analysis on the pyrotechnics that give a few seconds of fire for many minutes of impeded viewing was not very good at their job.

[@lawsonburghart3495]

The most depressing part of this video is seeing how much the Chicago Fire support has fallen. At a time this video would have been about them

[@senorpython2262]

Yank here Its complicated because for one this is an English sport that played second fiddle to its native brethren Gridiron Football, Basketball, Baseball, and Ice Hockey.

[@danielmessi1092]

Exactly. It’s that simple.

[@mikerodrigues2906]

It’s hockey bud 🇨🇦

[@senorpython2262]

@@mikerodrigues2906 Brazilian-Canadian?

[@fidelgonzales8152]

English sport? Definitely missed the mark on the world's game.

[@Not_Sal]

@@fidelgonzales8152 the fact of the matter is the modern organization version of football we all know and love originated in England

[@christianwestling2019]

Throwing plastic chair and shouting "who are ya" is thousand times better than "Don't mess with Trans Texans" 🫠

[@ALPHABET_S0UP]

The thing is the u.s is huge so even if there is a competitive team in your state it’s probably hours away, it’s impossible for everyone to have a local team when there are 27 mls teams and 24 championship teams in a country of over 300 million, there needs to be an actual league structure and relegation and promotion to have grassroots support by locals and have youth development, but because the mls is a corporate league they will probably never implement a league system to keep all the teams owners happy. I hope someday u.s soccer can accomplish something.

[@carnifex2005]

Martino is right.

[@afankhan482]

I like Bill Bryson’s explanation as why American sports don’t have European style hooliganism, the police would shoot them.

[@nollienick1121]

Little annoyed you put Miami

[@stellarsjay1773]

Geography is a big problem. Fans can’t just drive or hop on a train to away games. It showed in the Copa America where Canada didn’t play a single ‘home’ game where their fans were in the majority.

[@mitchkim6763]

As an American, I can honestly say soccer is way WAY down the list in pecking order and NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL rule this country. I’ve got mad respect for footballers in playing in Europe and I consider them to be world class athletes, but MLS is dominated by hipsters second tier athletes. No lies. Also, I want to point out that there is nothing “tough” about being a soccer player. That’s why you never see American soccer players playing football in Europe acting out because they all know that they have to come back home and face real men playing real tough sport.

[@hefsati]

I dont think theres anything wrong with the USA having, or trying to have an ultra culture. What is cringe is when they compare themselves to the EU or SA culture where clubs are sometimes over 100 years old and the culture has been passed down for 2/3+ generations. For us in the EU clubs arent a franchise established by a corporation, its local history and heritage, its literally in our DNA. In my opinion the MLS doesnt have that at all, maybe in time it will.

[@rezarfar]

There is a bunch of issues with Soccer in the USA, first of all, if you want to learn to play football professionally, you need to pay to go to a private academy, there isn't a state sponsored scholarships, there's no infrastructure in high schools or colleges. If kids in the USA wants to be involved with soccer, their parents better be rich. The other issue is with the actual sport itself, US networks won't pay out big bucks to a sports they can't milk for commercial revenue. Like they can with the NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB, if the networks could, they'd have unlimited stoppages during games, a 90 min match would take 5-6 hours to watch 😂. I think the last reason is the franchise system they have instead of clubs, the difference is astronomical. The best way for me to describe the difference is to explain it this way. A Franchise is a business owned by a person with money, if they decide they can move their franchise to another part of the country, to gain more fans in a better market if they feel like it, a franchise has no loyalty to the fans or the neighbours, it's loyal to money only. A club is a local thing, you can't move a club, you won't be able too, the clubs history is tied to the area and the fans are local supporters who would go to war for the club. There's a universe worth of difference there.

[@Not_Sal]

@@rezarfar further on the franchise thing, MLS owners don’t actually own a club or team, but they own a stake in MLS. For that reason MLS basically controls the finances of everyone. This is very outdated and limits how good a team can be due to limiting a teams spending. However it was necessary when MLS was created or else teams would have folded left and right and the league would shut down like the NASL did back in the day.

[@r2dad282]

There is so much fear-mongering about how pro-rel would doom clubs if they got relegated because the fans would just move to anther team in their home town. That doesn't happen in the rest of the world. What does happen is the fans attend those 2nd division matches and mercilessly boo the team, players and owners when the snck/lose until ownership decides they better improve so they won't be embarrassed around town. They get promoted, and the town rejoices. Pro-rel is a bottom-up system that is organic like the way baseball teams were formed 120 years ago, football teams 100 years ago.

[@jimmystagger]

In America, with all the sports options, a relegated soccer team wouldn't be considered "major league" anymore and goodbye fans and sponsors. You think booing is all it takes to get ownership to care and do better? There are tons of awful teams in our leagues who's fans boo and nothing changes for decades.

[@r2dad282]

@jimmystagger Relegation is the failure even bad management can't ignore forever. Americans have been programmed to accept socialized sports leagues as acceptable, normal and logical. The World Cup is the ultimate arbiter of quality. After 50 more years of MLS suckage, will USSF finally create a proper soccer pyramid? They've already had 100 years of sitting on their hands.

[@r2dad282]

@jimmystagger You're making my point. All those US teams are in closed leagues, so booing or not will not change their viability in that US league. It's only when the team falls to a lower league (consequences) do things change. Ask a Reds fan how much fun the Marge Shott years were. Marge would have cared if her investment wasn't guaranteed by the league and would have been diminished if the team dropped to a lower league. Economics fundamentals explain why pro-rel makes sense, but americans have been brainwashed with our socialized sports leagues.

[@Rogue_Centurion]

There are so many clubs underneath the MLS. It’s actually extraordinary in how many Americans play soccer. It’s a much more popular sport and people think it is. But one problem with all of those clubs is that they are often privately owned, and they charge a lot of money for kids to be able to play for them. Not every kid is able to afford to play club soccer, and so a huge source of talent for the US goes untapped because of greedy owners charging way too much money to play for their clubs.

[@jerryb4453]

American soccer sucks. No promotion relegation, that simple. Allow a three-tier league with MLS, USL Championship, USL League One along with lower tier “non-leagues” and watch soccer make a huge leap in the U.S. MLS teams will make more $$$ in this scenario than if it keeps its league and face paint in their pretty fishbowl.

[@SimonGoodmen]

Yeah, I’d rather see the same 1-3 clubs win the league for the next 50 years.

[@canderson7776]

Most European football sucks as well with their owners being countries, billionaires or companies. If supporters aren't in control, they are part of the modern plastic problem.

[@ryanjohnson6272]

​@@SimonGoodmenpro-rel has nothing to do with lack of competition, in fact it encourages competition. You can still have different teams winning the league with playoffs while also having pro rel. They're not mutually exclusive

[@JacobD-y1x]

I really dont think there are a large group of people that dont watch mls now but would if they had pro rel. americans who dont watch soccer will still not watch soccer because they think it’s boring and American soccer fans will still just watch the premier league because it’s the best league in the world. Pro rel wouldn’t change any of that realistically

[@Alex-vq7fz]

EPL has the same problem except for 5-7 teams. Delusional.

[@JonathanRodriguez-nz9nw]

Im sorry, but there is no football culture there. Lived there almost 2 decades, virtually no one in their states know of the existance of their local club. Near Chicago, even within the same city block of the rented stadium, or club training grounds, people are unaware of the professional football club in their city

[@CapptainM]

Can't wait to get out to SDFC matches this year. Soccer is well and alive in the USA

[@myanrellick]

The biggest problem I think, is how try hard and cringey the accelerated "traditions" are. The fan growth feels completely fake and forced.

[@nochepatada]

The MLS/Apple TV deal has ruined the popularity of soccer in America

[@r2dad282]

yeah but Garber got a wheelbarrow full of cash so everyone should be happy.

[@nochepatada]

@r2dad282 Messi got $50 million from Apple. That's not including his MLS salary

[@r2dad282]

@nochepatada I think MLS got Apple to subsidize his wages because MLS couldn't rationalize the full $. Smart, except it trashes their whole GAM/TAM/NAM nonsense.

[@02020andrew]

opportunity for the NWSL tho

[@GTM9164]

Outside of latinos and other recent immigrants soccer culture in the USA primarily comes from the womens game's culture being first and foremost what most fans experience around the USWNT then they get into mens game culture.