The Big Problem in Dutch Football

[@michaelscott7166]

At least they can't complain about a lack of flare on the pitch.

[@LiteralFilth]

that's good. that's funny.

[@edwardcamp3376]

bah dum bum 🥁

[@anandam1]

For youtubers like Fiago, these are the best fans in the world and those who just support sitting in stadium are the worst

[@michaelscott7166]

@@anandam1 All in association with Sorare: The Football Trading Card game that absolutely, positively isn't gambling or a Ponzi scheme like Football Index was........ honest!

[@Stuck_in_the_US]

Funny to see united here. Are you from NM?​@@edwardcamp3376

[@JCNL871]

The game discontinuing rule creates a moral hazard. When your team is losing you can just throw stuff on the pitch, having the game postponed and giving your team a chance to recover and regroup. There is a reward for breaking the rules now.

[@JF1908x]

@@Im_helplessthey do 🤷‍♂️

[@MrBluebirds22]

Literally what Ajax Ultras tried to do against Feyenoord earlier in the season, not that it worked though.

[@liamness]

Perhaps it should be an automatic loss for the team whose fans caused the game to be abandoned.

[@JCNL871]

@@liamness that would just encourage away fans to throw things on the pitch.

[@somethinglikethat2176]

​@@JCNL871 separate home and away sections make it rather easy to see who does what

[@erikthehalfabee6234]

Dutchie here, yes there is a problem with football fans. I wouldn't say it's a BIG problem, but there is certainly a problem, related to societal factors as is well explained by Tifo. The policy to suspend games when an object is thrown on the pitch is well intended, but i'm not sure if it's effective.

[@llRoBoBinHoll]

It isn’t a BIG problem as a football enjoyer but it is a big problem for municipalities and non football fans that have to put up with the crazy culture here

[@wolfvonderr4487]

When many matches eventually get cancelled, revenue for teams will dwindle and then owners will demand strong control. I played with the guy who attacked the Sevilla keeper (and his father), and both were violent people even during meaningless amateur games; football is just an excuse to let emotions run loose with alcohol and apparent anonymity.

[@caferustwat]

Surveillance and stadium bans are the most effective, prohibit hoodies and face coverings etc.

[@MBK5007]

pussi cat. ULTRAS FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!

[@sadisaac4633]

Indonesian football has also experienced something similar for a long time. It is not uncommon for something terrible to happen, such as clashes between supporters that threaten lives. Until finally, the federation provided a solution in the form of strict rules for fans to watch. I wonder if the same thing will happen in the Netherlands

[@ElCarboon]

"Indonesian football" 😂😂

[@JoyoAbadi-x9v]

@@ElCarboon why's the laugh? explain yourself

[@innocento.1552]

​@@ElCarboon Yes. Indonesian football. You know they also wear football boots and not play barefooted. You are feeling so entitled for something you contributed nothing to

[@ritchierich2793]

Thats straight up hooligans.. thats not unrest or bickering among fans..

[@rmnkhr]

​@@ElCarboon educate yourself, kid

[@nordkoster5948]

as a dutch person, I can say you guys are right on the money. polarisation and anti-establishment uprisings have become a big thing in the last 3 years in the Netherlands

[@ThePolymerisst]

Ummm, I wonder why? I wonder what happened in Europe recently

[@lonestarr1490]

​@@ThePolymerisst There is no short answer to that. The mood is declining basically everywhere, while people, at least in general, are not worse off than they were 10 years ago. Yes, there are a lot of refugees now, but they're not really noticable in daily life for most folks, I'd say. People somehow became so horribly afraid of anything and I don't really understand why. Things have been scary at the peak of global terrorism. But that was a few years back and didn't cause the same kind of shift towards right-wing demagogues. Maybe social media has its share in this. People are reading so much questionable stuff online. And it seems like they really believe in at least some of it. It baffles me, really. Are there really people who honestly believe that the far-right would make their lives better in any meaningful way? If so, how? Or do they just don't know what to do with all this anger they feel?

[@Caleb6000]

@@lonestarr1490people have a hard time with change, and when that change coincides with refugees and an economic downturn it creates an enhanced state of fear. People like this feel like they're being 'invaded'. I've noticed a rise in race supremacists online from all racial groups.

[@shayantorres]

@lonestarr1490 I know that people like you don’t wanna wake up because most people suffer from self-destructive psychological issues or don’t wanna rock the boat for self-interest reasons, but as immigrant who is supposed to be worried about right boogeymen, I wanna point out a few things that actually DO worry people like me: When you start to have radical things being taught to kids who aren’t mature, the media constantly tries to sow division between you and the locals, repeat offenders being let out to do scary things (we almost lost our livelihood in a burglary/robbery attempt and being constantly on the threat even though it wasn’t the case before for a decade), foreign agents of authoritarian countries are holding rallies and assassinating your people, and having to deal with high grocery and energy prices because of money printing and destruction of supplies while the same people who done have started to shuffle billions in public projects similar to how it happened back home, just to name a few, and to top it off have a bunch of out of touch people claim that they wanna defend us from the imaginary boogeyman that never showed up when they were the ones who caused all our suffering in the first place. How would you feel? If you don’t see or experience what we are feeling, then I don’t know what universe you are living in…

[@shayantorres]

@lonestarr1490 I know that people like you don’t wanna wake up because most people suffer from self-destructive psychological issues or don’t wanna rock the boat for self-interest reasons, but as immigrant who is supposed to be worried about right boogeymen, I wanna point out a few things that actually DO worry people like me: When you start to have radical things being taught to kids who aren’t mature, the media constantly tries to sow division between you and the locals, repeat offenders being let out to do scary things (we almost lost our livelihood in a robbery/burglary attempt and being constantly on the threat even though it wasn’t the case before for a decade), foreign agents of authoritarian countries are lately holding rallies and assassinating your people, and having to deal with high grocery and energy prices because of money printing and destruction of supplies while the same people who messed things up are shuffling billions in public projects similar to how it happened back home, can’t entertain yourself or go on a date without being schooled by that song/movie or that person about how to think for yourself instead of actually appreciating life, just to name a few, and to top it off have a bunch of out of touch people claim that they wanna defend us from the imaginary boogeyman that never showed up when they were the ones who caused all our suffering in the first place. How would you feel? If you don’t see or experience what we are feeling, then I don’t know what universe you are living in…

[@MRJDXTRA]

Beautiful music selection as always Tifo. Well Done 🎹

[@applepeel1662]

Is just hotel lobby music

[@knickedixen]

Joe Devine's voice takes these videos to another level.

[@wisdom3993]

Agreed

[@SuperRavensfan101]

Would love to hear from people from the Netherlands in this comment section about what may be causing the rise of this unrest honestly.

[@MiaSanMia_06]

Yeah right. Any people outside nederlands wouldn't probably know everything what's going on there. And may provide many misinformation

[@ridahariri8729]

just like tifo football wants to explain such a complex issue in 6mins

[@casbeenders646]

@@Dalh This is either an incredible self-own, or you have awful comprehension of what was actually said.

[@milokat179]

Just like behavior of Dutch national Team players during international matches, their fans following same thing now. Nothing shocking

[@Alva2k]

Honestly, I think the video has explained pretty well what possible causes might be, especially with drawing a link with Covid and the lockdown measures taken during that time. There's been a sharp increase in incidents after Covid which marks a correlation, and I think people as a whole have more distrust towards the police and government than before Covid. Also, the drunk and coked up young fans (teenagers) are the ones usually perpetrating this kind of nonsense in my experience, which could be due to them not learning the proper 'etiquette' of behaviour around football matches during the Covid shutdowns

[@hrishikeshavasarala852]

Wait till he finds out about Turkish football

[@ElCarboon]

"Turkish football" 😂😂

[@tougedrift]

​@@ElCarboon hate these football tiktok inbreds bleeding into other platforms 👎

[@dorotan461]

Yeah like turkey has any worthy football😂😂

[@xpto41]

bro, wait till he finds out about all eastern europe football hools, balkans, germany 2nd and 3rd division ultras

[@mr.talldarkandhandsome4111]

​@@dorotan461That's besides the point. The Hooliganism there is about as insane as you can ask for.

[@mattbennett9254]

Well I never thought I’d see Geert Wilders on TIFO 😂

[@raquetdude]

Hilarious how his party has collapsed in on itself alongside the arrests and no one wanting to actually ally with him. Let alone the Russian links

[@Itza-Me]

​@raquetdude He's only growing in popularity tho?

[@WilliamSmith-mx6ze]

As if football hooliganism has anything to do with Geert Wilders, or indeed COVID or hostility to refugees, as the video mentions. I mean, other European countries have populist politicians and COVID and hostility to immigration; Britain has all those things and we don't seem to have a problem with hooliganism.

[@hgirjiofebunsjbk]

@@Itza-Me hes not mate

[@mixingames5530]

​@@hgirjiofebunsjbkhe is, in the new predictions it says that hed have 50 seats if there were new elections

[@Jothamvw]

Just a heads up, it's AIVD, not AVID.

[@martijnkosters9024]

And Utrecht, not Ultrecht.

[@bungaIowbill]

also private, not pirate. (3:24)

[@JonatasAdoM]

​@martijnkosters9024 Ultretch sounds so good though :(

[@HarmvanderWilt]

Dutchman here: This analysis is accurate, especially the part about the underlying unrest. But our government also finds it a bit to easy to hide behind practical matters like the fact that we have a shortage in personel at our national police. Yes we dont have the capacity to let people check in at police stations during matches, but we are not banning alcohol inside stadiums either, which could really help and shouldnt be too hard to enforce. Or any other hard measures. Our politicians prefer playing it safe with regards to public opinion. A lot is being deflected by saying: players and fans should simply behave better, because you know, expecting people to change behavior and talking tough doesnt actually cost any money... But there is another link between football and politics: former football pundits who now discuss politics during evening shows, while clearly showcasing a preference for right wing (populist) politicians. (Dutchies here know Im talking Veronica Inside, what used to be called Football Inside for a reason). Apparently, being funny and well known is enough to not just have an opinion on public matters. Which is everybody's right, but one would hope they would know a little more about these complex subjects like climate change, migration, agriculture etc. before influencing the masses. No real solutions are part of the public debate, just the emotions and pointing out what you dont like. By doing so they claim to have the voice of 'the common people', if there was a such a thing. And at the same time all these 'influencers' are being led by political / media frames, rather than actual analysis. Because that stuff is boring. Much easier to just vent your gut feeling. They might argue for being tougher on hooligans, but at the same time they do a wonderful job at dividing opions on the matters on which the underlying unrest is based. We lack the decisiveness to really adress these problems, partly because we want everybody to agree while problem analysis is being flawed by populist / political believes. Which is a very Dutch thing: we want everybody to have a say before making decisions, we love compromises and all that, but we lack the vision to go forward. And heaven forbid we upset anyone by taking decisive measures. Yet a lot more people would actually support these measures, if they werent so easily mislead.

[@benyoung4305]

Cheers for the insight mate, I had a small insight into the culture of the Netherlands when an acquaintance came over to York from Breda to visit (about 6 years ago) and much of what she spoke about was alluded to in this video.

[@paulie-g]

Yeah, ban more things. That'll help with people who think the institutions are off their head trying to run everyone's lives.

[@ThePolymerisst]

What is wrong with having a preference for a certain political ideology?🤔

[@atasaygili2549]

@@ThePolymerisst having political ideologies is not an issue. For example you can be right wing or left wing without being populist (finding easy solutions for complex issues, or playing the blame game). The issue comes when populism rules over rationality

[@caferustwat]

Yeah, the lack of decisive measures by politicians is emblematic of the Dutch political climate. Politicians nowadays talk more about how something is said than what is actually said, which kills almost all discussions.

[@stijnbos7614]

A lot of the incidents in football stadiums are however, football related. Ajax and Groningen have for example been in pretty terrible form and the fans lash out by throwing things on the pitch as a protest. Ajax "fans" also raided the stadium, breaking in through doors and windows, while families are there with their kids to watch a game. Feyenoord fans throw lighters at Ajax players because they can, and dislike Ajax. To then claim it reflects society, or blame it on the covid lockdown (seriously?!) seems too easy, considering these are, generally speaking, young guys with most likely very little political insights or interest. Just an excuse to conduct violence. A big issue in the Netherlands is that people don't fear the justice system. The police and stadiums are constantly patching things up without coming up with an actual solution. (ie; better cctv in stadiums, tickets connected to ID and seats, long term bans, thorough checks for things like fireworks etc.). The herd mentality protects many of the offenders. Many of the ultras however are just that, ultras for the football club which is positive, but there is a minority within them that feel the need to riot.

[@jdbolick]

Correct. I am an Ajax supporter, and the behavior by F-Side (our ultras) has nothing to do with politics. They are hooligans who destroy things whenever the squad is not performing well. They even destroyed part of the ArenA while trying to get to club executives after the Feyenoord match was abandoned. Ajax has plenty of culture and character, so it would be fine if F-Side was banned from attending.

[@WritingGeekNL]

I mean, on the lighter-gate case: 1. Same incident took place in the Arena with Berghuis when he played for Feyenoord. 2. Lighters are (were*) thrown in the dozens, if not hundreds, every weekend. It was eventually bound to happen and hit someone... again.

[@tonym6566]

Feyenoord’s star forwards gf attended the away game vs Ajax on their first win there in years. Her pic outside the stadium went viral making her a fan favorite 😅

[@kth6736]

She should come live in West London. Santiago Giminez to Chelsea... Here we go.

[@DavyVDBogert]

​@@kth6736 He's already in Chelsea striker form.

[@kth6736]

@@DavyVDBogert good. Then Todd Boelhy pays 10m extra for him. 😂

[@LagNull]

Santi giminez🔥 the goat. I hope he comes to arsenal

[@rooztube]

Belgian Scene: It's a working class game and loads of people are fed up with politics since Covid lockdowns and Totalitarian rules/laws and have built up agression since then. I also noticed an influx of a lot of young, instagram, ultras and hooligans since it's getting pretting mainstream nowadays.

[@uriustosh]

Uneducated, easily duped, gullible people eating up right wing lies and conspiracies turn violent. Yep, same story in most countries.

[@AidanNevins]

"make farming sustainable" That's a weird way to say that the government is paying a one-time fee for these farms to owners. In return, they cannot continue operations, rather than make farming sustainable they are closing farms to reduce an arbitrary number that someone in another country determined.

[@kylec10]

Tifo are owned by the New York Times, so they are always going to attempt to propagandize their viewers when given the chance.

[@hoihoi726]

We are the biggest food exporter after america. Look at the netherlands on a map. Its a tiny river delta. Farming on such a scale is noet sustainable and agri-billionaires are laughing to the bank seeing comments like this

[@jordy6292]

​@@hoihoi726 Oprechte vraag, wie zijn de agri billionaires in Nederland dan? Ik kom zelf van het platteland en ben neutraal in deze hele discussie, maar ik ben gewoon benieuwd of er echt mensen zijn die HEEL rijk van de Nederlandse landbouw worden. Ik weet wel veel voorbeelden van mensen die een flinke boterham verdienen, maar niet dat één persoon/bedrijf echt overal een vinger in de pap heeft en miljarden verdiend.

[@hoihoi726]

@@jordy6292 ik kom uit coevorden. Er is hier een best aantal kilometers doorgaande weg waar alle velden zover als je kijken kunt van één bedrijf is. Daar heb je er een paar van in nederland. Voor de rest moet je vooral denken aan de bedrijven die al die boeren voorzien van veevoer, kunstmest etc. En dat is inderdaad een klein rijk en machtig groepje. Hoe dat komt heeft ene K. Marx ooit een boek over geschreven.

[@callum2474]

Simply, football and its fans do not exist in a vacuum

[@rottekiwi]

Just a minor correction: the Dutch intelligence agency is called the Algemene Inlichtingen- en Veiligheidsdienst (AIVD), not AVID.

[@yaelomannetje]

Great video. Really covered it all. Seeing it as a separate issue from the ongoing societal problems is just stupid.

[@bjobbert6262]

I'm really missing the nuance in the link to the societal changes in my country - let's not brush over the fact that they absolutely DO have a hand in what's causing the unrest lately, but saying what's going on inside the stadiums might be a direct reflection of the whole covid-conspiracy-vaxxination craze is something that really warrants a longer explanation than just a mere 3 minutes, to avoid spreading misinformation. Which this video already did, the stated reason for the farmers' uprising simply isn't true at all. It's far from the only reason as to why it happened - i'm not picking sides here, but it's a fact that it almost looks like my government intentionally tried to create distrust between the common people over the years and, let's say, the people in charge of running the country. Because the farmers really aren't (only) angry at the fact that the government wants to make farming sustainable and less impactful on the environment, it's that they're trying to achieve this with very unrealistic deadlines without actively communicating with the farmers themselves, because the social gap between the farmland/rural part of the country, and the big cities in which the governing parties very often originate from, has never been this big. By the way, if you're speaking about violence committed by ultra's, it's crazy that you missed FC Groningen's season last year, in which they relegated and played their last games without any supporters being allowed in the away stand, and at home. A penalty which was very warranted, I should add. Still liked the video though cause it's an important topic, but these subjects REALLY are too big to cover in such a short video like this.

[@MrBannystar]

I daresay that within the next generation, it'll rightly be looked at as one of the biggest crimes against humanity in the modern age. Also, what's happening to the farmers is nothing short of disgraceful, and all because of the myth that humanity is facing extinction and that these actions would have any beneficial impact at all.

[@hgirjiofebunsjbk]

ja en bij ajax supporters die een heleboel onzin krijgen met halsema als burgermeester helpt ook niet

[@victorsamsung2921]

Well said. The Farmer's protest in the Netherlands has also been about the lack of interest and cognitive dissonance from the elite politicians in The Hague with the countryside. Not seeming to care at all about the effects of their policies ... But it is also the general distrust and disagreement with the elites in Brussel and all the st*pid laws they're pushing for their agenda.

[@hondimon69]

​@@MrBannystar let see in next couple years

[@tedcullington4684]

covid-conspiracy-vaxxination craze, lol just a craze. farming sustainable and less impactful on the environment, lol. well trained like an obedient dog with those statements. Support your people and farmers that feed you not your corrupt government, like almost all of Europe governments now.

[@RevStickleback]

I can't say for The Netherlands, but in England there's a growing number of younger fans who know nothing about how bad the football experience was in the dark days when crowd trouble was common - all the fences, restrictions, police escorts, not to mention the obvious threat of being attacked - and they see the videos online and think it's 'cool'.

[@indiekiddrugpatrol3117]

Yea it's a double eged sword because on the one hand lower league attendances are increasing which is good for the game but many of them do dress and act like it's the 80s.

[@gm2407]

People keep making the mistakes of the past because ego demands to be proven wrong, els it assumes to be correct. The curse of generational set backs. Lessons never remain learned.

[@charliezobel511]

But going football was great in the 'dark' days unlike the sanitised abortion of nowadays, that's the truth.

[@d.b.cooper1]

Almost prefer ours in England tbh which is mainly stupid kids influenced by social media of old school aesthetics. Netherlands seems like a deeply rooted issue in wider politics that is lowkey encouraged by certain parties as part of a wider uprising against the status quo…not in a good way either

[@Chvdmaxxer]

​@@indiekiddrugpatrol3117 And the Brits now are the most neutered fans ever

[@adaldi_]

That really went somewhere I didn't expect, it's common for politics and football to clash but I just didn't imagine I would be learning about Dutch politics today.

[@12thMandalorian]

No need for politics in sport

[@rob8311]

​@@12thMandalorianhave you been living under a rock? Politics and sports have ALWAYS been linked.

[@12thMandalorian]

@@rob8311 then time to unlink 🙌🏻

[@williamstarck6863]

​@12thMandalorian Football and politics has always been linked and can't be separated

[@a-turkey-in-abush7787]

@@12thMandalorian Dutchman Ruud Gullit dedicated his ballon d’or to then terrorist Nelson Mandela

[@allllllllllllllllll5]

The power of the semi-conductor...

[@analinsaturria6845]

This Touring with Tommo format is nice! It’s different and made a rather technical conversation less intimidating if that makes sense.

[@gadget00]

One of the top videos of the year so far; amazing journalism here. I just wished it was longer, like the old days. You guys are like cutting videos in half lately

[@brucelansberg5485]

_"amazing journalism here"_ Sorry, must have missed that. Would you mind helping me out here? What I watched: A click bait title for a video full of baseless claims and suggestions.

[@MasterOfPunpets]

The rule where a game gets abandoned after stuff gets thrown on the pitch gives a lot of power to people in the stadium. As in the case of Ajax-Feyenoord, the Ajax fans wanted to stop the game because they were losing. And they did by repeatedly throwing stuff on the pitch.

[@9delta988]

I need to correct you at 4:35. The issueus where not the laws but the uncertainty it brought to the Farmers futures.

[@loerenzpiep3399]

I work as security at the biggest stadium in the country. Was there in the middle of it during the ajax fey riots.... Let me tell you. Nobody gets paid well...they underpay their stewards...therefor they have to hire extra security, like me, these get paid very well because of legal requirement. Now imagine the type of person who would sign up for the low pay...indeed not goos security and most arent security in their daily lives. So zero experience. And at this club its still better then in other clubs...so yeah Then on the fact that in most stadiums the rules are strict af...meaning you do something wrong you get kicked out, including the one i work at. But.... This doesnt apply for the ones who cause the trouble. This is because the club leaders are scared for escalation and then having to hire extra security and havibg to be protected themselves outside the stadium. So there is a clear divide between the normal groups and the hooligans. They rule inside and they know it. Way before the ajax fey riots we all knew it was gon a happen. They announcent it even before the game even started.... Ps...tifo his views on the protests etc are really oneside and completely not true. Its worse then his pronounciation od dutch club names

[@originalvegoman]

It's those darn video games I tell you!!!

[@lbcfc8699]

I always got the feeling that the daily Dutch culture and lifestyle is quite chilled out, but football is the place where the men have their release. I’ve worked with many Dutchies here in Australia, and all the guys I’ve known are so neutral on many topics until you bring up football. That’s when their entire demeanour changes 😂

[@Herosennin]

Nah they seem like that. The Dutch are surely not a neutral people and dependable on the subject, if they're against it, they'll go extreme easily.

[@gm2407]

Different demographics between people who travel and people who stay at home.

[@robertwilloughby8050]

There was a frighteningly bad period in Dutch football from the late 70's to the late 90's that at times was worse than the British hooliganism - you mentioned ADO Den Haag fans burning down their ground, well there was also "The Trainburners" who used to set fire to fan trains, win or lose (I think they were Fc Twente hooligans, if you know better, tell me!).

[@Senseomeister]

The games being suspended started when Davy Klaassen got hit with a lighter. A few months prior Feyenoord decided to put nets around their pitch in the game versus Ajax, in order to protect Ajax player (and former Feyenoord player) Steven Berghuis from being abused with foreign objects. A few months later they were playing the semifinals in the Dutch cup. Sponsors, broadcasters and fans were complaining that the nets obstructed the view, hence Feyenoord removed the net and poles in front of the camera. A skirmish between players in the second half resulted in Klaassen being hit and sending a ripple effect through the Dutch league system that has done more harm than good. In my humble opinion they have been trying to control fans by suspending games every time something is being thrown on the pitch. This has proven to be very counter productive, because it has given fans a chance to absolutely sabotage games or even self sabotage by accidentally dropping an empty plastic cup after scoring a decider in the 87th minute. The rule in itself is good, but the Dutch FA has left so many plotholes within that rule that it’s very hard to defend. I even stumbled across something funny on the internet. It was a video about FC Den Bosch supporters, who are known to be notorious troublemakers in their division. The video was all about how fan perception has changed and that they are making big steps in making their stadium a safe space without incidents. Just for the game to be suspended twice against FC Dordrecht this past weekend.🤷🏼‍♂️

[@notKevinFeige]

4:48 part of this craaaaazy conspiracy theory that Klaus Schwab wrote in his own book and is clearly applying every step he describes, like limiting the amount of food the farmers can produce in the Netherlands, making even them have to "off" their cows due to nitrogen emissions, which is a big reason for the prostest, but hahahaha those crazy theorists are so crazy

[@faustojeweettoch]

Source?

[@brucelansberg5485]

@@faustojeweettoch Da's niet eerlijk, een complotdenker vragen om bronnen of bewijs...

[@nielsmeijer6698]

As a Dutch person, I want to express that our government is currently trying to distract people from its bad policies and are putting a lot of the blame on ordinary and unhappy citizens when they protest against said policies and its effects. Society is getting more and more tough and this is reflected in football, like anywhere else in the world. Also, the rules imposed by the KNVB are preposterously strict, in my opinion and the Dutch government should take responsibility for their failures first and then point the finger at others.

[@McRusen]

What does this mean, exactly? People don't agree with their politicians (whom they elected) and therefore ... decide to injure athletes on a football pitch?! 😅

[@agb.88]

A couple of things... after Covid it felt like fans couldn't behalve. It felt like supporters needed to let go of there frustration in a weird way. Something was very weird. But the problem is that we don’t have the same laws as in England

[@thztan7492]

James montague piece is always a must watch👍

[@TheFallorn]

This isn’t a critique, and I don’t think Tifo is co-signing these beliefs, but the phrase “antivaxers *and* conspiracy theorists” was very funny

[@victorsamsung2921]

Especially because it's true, in the sense that those opposing the pandemic and the vaxxes have been proven right e.g. covid wasn't the blackdeath and the number of deaths has been greatly exaggerated for financial and political gain. Remember the 2020 US Presidential Election etc. The WEF is also a fact. I mean, first we had global cooling in the 70s, then it became global warming in the 00s (remember Al Gore's prophecy of the Arctic being gone by 2010) and now it's climate change and Co2 (Carbon Dioxide). The nonsense goes on by the elites.

[@tedcullington4684]

Near 20 percent death rates in Europe now and ongoing. People know.

[@rb026]

Really good and insightful vid, thnx lads ! Hope the situation will improve...

[@ShamaticWow]

Im Dutch, and the way our problems were described from 4:02 onward was so accurate and hit my right in dem feels

[@TerminatorReus]

They should ban them for life. They need to treat these hooligans like thugs. If the fans cry, then ask them why they cannot watch their team on television. Ridiculous.

[@robertklein1497]

You hit the jackpot with your conclusions here. Dutch society is twisted and sometimes just pure madness. I was always proud to be Dutch, but not anymore. We are degrading ourselves as a society and sadly I do not see an end to that. Besides that, people are stupified by the (social) media algorithms that prevent respect, sensible arguments and thinking. The Netherlands is sick. Very sick.

[@Derrimam3roufch]

Football fans are the purist concrete reflection of society. It's the biggest regular gathering of all sorts of people from different/similar background. What you see in a stadium, can give big indicators on the system of values your society has.

[@WritingGeekNL]

0:04 No it didn't... has been at this level since I was a young kid and longer before that as well. The difference is that England gradually lost that identity with the introduction of the Premier League and a alcohol ban in stadiums.

[@PHDiaz-vv7yo]

I need to listen to Three Little Birds after all that 🇯🇲

[@jpick3113]

Bro the answer is so clear you just have to significantly increase checkpoints and scanning, ensure people don’t bring in dangerous items

[@insanityrabbit2406]

I feel the problem is the double us-vs-them that's created by the blackshirts. It's no longer just "our club vs the other club", but now it's "blackshirts vs shirts and shawls vs the other clubs" An us-vs-them is a highly successful tactic when creating something to fight for, but that is all it is. A tactic to create a relative fight towards somebody else, this'll always create aggression in the end. It sounds like something small, but I genuinely believe getting colours (the "shirts and shawls supporters) back in the stadium would create a smaller "us-vs-them" dynamic, and it'll help lower aggression in stadiums

[@louisjwiese5515]

Farm protests are definitely something I supported (from where I am from). But the football protests, I really am not a fan of.

[@ronitdey2687]

Not all ultras are bad but for those which are...new rules ahould be implemented like...for cases where the fans of one side are responsible for disrupting the game repeatedly or responsible for harming the players,coaches or referees... the game should be stopped and the victory points should be given directly to the opposing team. There can also be point multiplication for the opposing team. Like its done in cases of cheating or quitting the match in online games.

[@CharlieHolmesT]

Funny to say hooliganism has been curbed in Turkey considering recent events.

[@joeryikink9615]

Wich match of fc twente has been abandoned? Cant really remember one?

[@yussefhazem5637]

I advise Dutch fans to read about the Portsaid incident. I wish it doesn't reach that but that's the direction you're heading into. 74 dead but I like to say 75 because egyptian football died that day along with the fans.

[@brucelansberg5485]

See, this is how nonsense is being spread. I advise you to really do some research on the topic in this video. And please not how zero evidence is provided for the presented claims and suggestions. Misinformation is being spread and you took the bait.

[@yussefhazem5637]

@@brucelansberg5485 Brother I didn't claim to know everything about the topic but if there's 1% simmilarity all I'm doing is giving advice to any young one reading my comment. I hope it's not as bad as it seems in the video. Love

[@brucelansberg5485]

@@yussefhazem5637 _"I didn't claim to know everything about the topic"_ I know you didn't. The thing however is that you took the information in this video as fact. There's no harm in scrutinizing the claims and suggestions in this video. An image is being painted that doesn't even touch reality. Please realize that channel owners aren't here to provide us with actual information. They're here to make a quick buck. This is not investigative journalism. It's entertainment at best. Love you too mate :).

[@yussefhazem5637]

@@brucelansberg5485 I didn't take it as a fact,you read about violence and you wish for peace regardless of the situation. Besides Tifo has a record of being credible in such videos,perhaps I need to reconsider my trust in them that's a different matter

[@sdee118]

Just some insight on the intro where you mentioned AZ twice, both of the stories aren’t completely true and the West Ham one has a way bigger story than actually got reported

[@thijstimmermans183]

I personally think there is also a lot of hypocracy and playing the victim from a lot of these hooligans. There are certain things they are angry about that I find understandable. They dislike collective punishments, for example banning entire stadium sections for a game because of previous violence, or the banning of awayfans at 'dangerous games'. Or turning footballstadiums into prisons with high tourniquets and plexiglass encased awayends. I get it, it takes away from the fan experience, but I think it's hypocritical when they ask for different measures. Entire Ultra groups go to games wearing full black clothes with masks and hoods making them unidentifiable, and then whine when they ban the entire stadium section because of fighting. And even when individual people get stadium bans, it's suddenly unacceptable and they're the victim, just because it's one of their mates. And sure, stopping the game when people throw cups on the pitch is a bit harsh, but "it's just a cup" is not a good excuse for being a facking asshole. DON'T THROW SH*T ON THE PITCH! how hard can it be?! They are always excusing there own behaviour "because it's not that bad" or "it only happens a few times". If you want the KNVB to give you respect, than behave yourselfs aswell. the fact that so many people just don't get that is so frustrating. I love the ultra's and fan actions and the chanting and all that stuff during games, which is why I think it's such a shame it has to be ruined by some people.

[@erikthehalfabee6234]

If fans in the ultra section wear black clothes and hoodies instead of their club colors, that already raises suspicion

[@Arctic70]

maybe not everyone wants to spend $120 on a tshirt

[@erikthehalfabee6234]

@@Arctic70A shawl won't cost you that much. You can get cheaper shirts as well. And $100 is not that much for something you can wear to every game.

[@Arctic70]

​@@erikthehalfabee6234 that is how much they are in Australia. My point is they are expensive. England's euro Shirt is £85 and there is a £125 option. $100 is a lot of money for a lot of people.

[@aariyanmahmud301]

@@Arctic70 maybe "ultras" doesn't mean "everyone"

[@Lgx-ie4if]

@@Arctic70everyone knows they do it so the police don’t know who to arrest in my city the ultras all wear the exact same outfit

[@limpa756]

unrest is becoming more and more apparent in the west in general

[@hisss]

Decent summary of what's going on here. One correction: AIVD, not AVID.

[@youngberg100]

Burning down your own stadium has to be the most wild thing I’ve ever heard 🤣🤣😭.

[@mywristuncut]

Rationality in the Netherlands. Completely gone

[@kian_de_gamer1638]

You could have mentioned Feyenoord still plays its home games with nets all around the field as a reaction to the lighter incident in may last year.

[@md.abdullaalwailykhanchowd3974]

Burning your own stadium just because your team lost!? The team didn't only just lost a game, they lost a stadium!

[@kylec10]

Tifo out here deleting comments 😂

[@victorsamsung2921]

Hmmm. Wonder why...

[@tedcullington4684]

Shut it down, too many real opinions

[@sammyni2745]

How refreshing it is for the Athletic touching on the societies other issues that has an impact on the masses , football is still the working man's sport despite the business world trying to ruin it. These 'conspiracies ' are mostly facts and is ignored by the controlled media so fair play to the Athletic

[@andrewmontague9682]

The British had a reputation in the 80s that got a lot of attention, deservedly so. It’s good to see somebody shining a light on how the normally placid Dutch are behaving now. It’s strange to see for sure and it makes you wonder what could be causing it. After all it’s not as if this kind of thing comes from nowhere. If the people are rebelling it has to be against something.

[@DrengrByHeart]

Today's world is getting dangerous and I am preparing mentally for it to fall sooner or later in my lifetime

[@arnoldtettero8470]

Dutch person ,and personally think an lot of people lost there impulse control during covid

[@Shpauly]

This was really good. Always love anything about Dutch gootball.

[@alexanderotega2351]

Wonderful piece

[@S2580ss]

I haven’t watched Tifo in a while, what happened to their art style?

[@yakunats]

It's so much worse! The style is inconsistent, the fonts are all over the place. Are you doing illustrations or video stills? My days why buy an asset only to depreciate it.

[@DK-nc9wr]

I honestly have been picking up on that ever since the athletic effect as someone else mentioned above.

[@jarmoliebrand2005]

This doesn’t just happen with the big teams. Such things also happen in the Eerste Divisie, a level below the Eredivisie

[@raedos1]

The video is well made (few details here and there are off). But I don't agree with the premise of it, although it is a popular one within NL so I dont blame Tifo. So many games have been cancelled because the KNVB (Dutch FA) felt llike they had to do something after Klaassen bled from his head from a fan throwing a lighter. So they decided to cancel any match where fans threw objects on the pitch twice (first time is 15 min break). As per usual with the KNVB they didn't really think things through and if a team would score an epic equalizer/winner in the last minutes of the game some beers will naturally be thrown on the pitch resulting in many cancelled matches. When you look at other matches in Europe this happens all the team (even European matches in Dutch stadiums). Imo this whole topic is exaggerated and bureaucracy is working its wonders on the Dutch footballing world.

[@DarthFlauschi]

This reminds me of the Nica Riots in Konstantinopel under Justinian

[@klapsigaarenbasgitaar1931]

The problem is not the violence as such, the problem is the lack of will by clubs and politicians to do anything about it. If they could do it in England, then why not in NL? The playbook is there, it has been done.

[@plc20100]

You said it right at the end!

[@HEROplanetX]

The Dutch intelligence service is called AIVD not AVID. Great video besides that!

[@leonhardeuler675]

"Pirate equity" 3:25 There's an Always Sunny clip about that.

[@benefiet]

As a Belgian football fan: i know the rules in the Netherlands are very strict nowadays and they cancel games much faster then in Belgium.

[@DaanCusters94]

Tifo just described my country's political situation better than any journalist or politician has done here in my lifespan. Great video. Also a bit of slab on the nose in that the Dutch football culture is more toxic and ill than I thought. In my head these issues happen in every country with ultra fansbases

[@sarmgoblin8482]

Dutch fans are great, hopefully they can stamp this out without destroying the football culture

[@NoCluYT]

Natural thing in societies. When there are little to no problems, someone must make one, and they will offer an extreme solution. A tale as old as time. We all promised we wouldn't do it again, but look at us repeating history.

[@hakkepak]

The thing is that here are not "Little to no problems". When this unrest started it was actually due to problems (Covid pandemic for example).

[@EannaWithAFada]

Meanwhile in the League of Ireland we can't even have a flair or a tifo despite it being the only appeal of going, because I promise the football quality on the pitch is not our selling point

[@jzilla1234]

Surprised the government didn't blame it on immigrants

[@terencew3840]

punishing everyone for the actions of a few is the lazy way of handling things.

[@MySadExistence]

Funny that Mark Rutte calls something scandalous

[@Beeady]

"Anti institutional extremists are the biggest threat that the Dutch state currently faces" is pretty wild for a country that will become nonexistant with half a metre of sea level rise

[@Aztwecas]

The antisemitism in the Dutch game is insane and not just restricted to the Ultras. Teams that have long standing rivalries with Ajax are especially susceptible to it. I've been on numerous trains and busses around Utrecht where fans have chanted "sit down if you hate the jews". It goes unchallenged in these contexts as it is assumed that these groups will disperse quite quickly after. It's sad because the Netherlands has such a contratictory social culture. It is simultaneously socially liberal, progressive, cognitively flexible, and posseses very advanced academic and professional sectors, yet it sustaines widespread casual and systematic racism and has allowed the rapid and unchallenged growth of far right populism.

[@Octaviu5]

Boo hoo cry about it

[@Aztwecas]

@@Octaviu5 We can cry together! Love you

[@yymediaprod]

Can't forget when Alvarado, (former goalkeeper for AZ from Costa Rica) beat up a fan many years ago 😂

[@oedokuipers9978]

Great content and something to definitely think about. I am a Dutch person living in Germany for a while and I think it is very important for all of us in Europe to be active politically. There is a huge call on the “silent majority” in Germany so that awful events or ways of thinking from the past don’t happen again. As ever, very interesting Tifo!

[@lthecatt9667]

Just a small note, the Intelligence Service is called AIVD, not AVID

[@pascallovic]

Hooliganism is Turkey has been curbed. Yeah we saw that at the game Trabzonspor - Fenerbahce and Rizespor - MKE Ankaragucu. The last game made TFF suspend all games in Turkey last december.

[@subutaynoyan5372]

Turkey is at wit's end politically, economically and socially so the entirity of the country is extra angry these days .

[@azfd22]

5:11 it's AIVD not AVID

[@Kuzey6707]

As a Turkish football fan I can confidently say this is still better than Turkish football 😭

[@thomasjome]

Great video Tifo

[@tasolyn]

My guy brought up the Great Reset. Not the best work from Tifo Football, grasping at every straw possible.

[@sylveroscar3724]

i love the video and the background music!!

[@jaketaylor2996]

Interesting video but people have their heads buried in the sand if your not seeing what’s happening around the world. It’s bigger than football. WEF “You’ll own nothing and be happy”

[@t.bo.e2487]

@@Adi-bo5dono

[@brucelansberg5485]

Tin foil hat alert

[@fotonapapa]

I'm a great fan of your channel. If I may point out one detailed mistake: FC Utrecht's jersey has colors split along a diagonal rather than a vertical line.

[@Armando.L.7]

Antisemetic chants? Seriously? Are you sure they weren’t just saying free Palestine? Israel tends to be dramatic

[@sylvestretossou4643]

Another great video as usual ❤

[@Delaser12]

Ado den haag supporter here Holligannisme is a thing in the early days my dad told me a lot of it

[@Jordan-ft1jb]

Imagine if this was happening in England. Clubs would be kicked out of European competitions so fast