Tim Alberta on Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism

The author of the profoundly disturbing book "The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory" explains how evangelicals have been turned into a political tool for the Republican Party. Alberta grew up in the evangelical wing of the Presbyterian Church and watched as they turned their back on him after he criticized Donald Trump. How did the evangelical church turn so far towards right wing politics? What exactly is an evangelical? How can those voters ever be won back?
Al is going on tour! See if he's coming to your town and grab tickets today!
www.alfranken....

[@hapennysparrow]

Tim Alberta is phenomenal. I fled church in 2016 when the once seemingly normal group of believers morphed into something unrecognizable. Extremist nationalist views, the false prosperity gospel pushed, the demand for conformity to a political ideology, and the incorporation of New Age spiritual practices in order to " hear God's voice," and a parade of flattering false prophets coming through, one even staying to begin a prophetic school into this Religious Right mindset. I was one of a few Democrats who had been tolerated with some disapproval, but became targeted after the installation of Trump into the Oval Office. I exited stage left post haste, being called Marxist, baby killer, traitor, among other things. This was not my church of choice, but a merger with a much more benign gatherers of believers, largely non political, based on the teachings of Jesus and loving one another. That all changed with the merger. I attended to stay loyal to my former pastor who was supposed to do some of the pastoral care. Sadly, he was shoved aside, and the more radical younger pastor dominated I grew increasingly uncomfortable, and the push for political identification was woven into the narrative on Sunday mornings and I a once loving prayer circle. Now it was a militant posture to Build God's Kingdom for Him. Where in scripture was that found. A hoax of a faux US historical past was promoted. My first vote was for Jimmy Carter. I detested Reagan, the Falwell's movement, the Bushes, 1& 2, and disappointed by Bill Clinton. I was anti war, desired true justice, wanted progressive politics that provided for the needy, environmental protections, a stronger social safety net, all of which conformed to what the scriptures taught about Christ's priorities. He was never about earthly power or dominion or co opting religion to obtain it. I could never figure out where these false narratives came from. Then finally DJ Trump. Katherine Stewart's The Power Worshippers came out and I devoured it. The dots all connected. Several more books further enlightened my understanding, then Tim Alberta's books. Also concurrent was Rachel Meadow's Ultra series, and Jeff Sharlet's The Family put the last puzzle pieces into place. Thank you Tim for your tireless efforts to shine a light into a very dark place. God help us. Please keep speaking out.

[@bonnievandyke923]

You might look into the books written by Dr Steven Hasson regarding mental manipulation and their use in cults. These RW evangelicals (new age prophecy proponents such as Paula White) have been instrumental in the take over of churches & the GOP. It’s very much a cult movement.

[@bonnievandyke923]

Also - that church should be reported to the IRS and lose its tax exemption!

[@bibigems]

I'm so with you!!! Back in 2016 I became very disappointed at witnessing the Christian church, my friends, my own daughter-all started supporting this evil man-Donald Trump. I have been outraged for 8 plus years. Several years ago, the associate edition for Christianity Today called out the false belief that trump was "the chosen one" and this was probably 6 years ago. At the time I was relieved to finally, to finally hear someone in the Christian community speak up to tell the truth and I kept saying "see see" "that's what I've been sayin." Trump actually is the Anti-Christ. I really think it is and I hope and I pray that these Christians will someday realize how wrong they have been to follow, support and even idolize trump. Also, btw, Trump now believes he is above God. Blasphemous. Utterly blasphemous!!!

[@coachtaewherbalife8817]

The change I noticed was religious leaders flaunting their lavish lifestyles as a sign of God's favor.

[@bkm2797]

They are right about one thing, and that being you have your own personal relationship with God, meaning you don't need them!

[@brianmacadam4793]

I'm impressed with that 14 yr old standing up to his evangelical parents, way to go.

[@daviddickey4244]

It would have been more impressing if he'd said, to hell with religion.

[@rhondahanlon613]

Excellent conversation! I cannot believe the blind faith many people have to these "leaders" they have put on pedastals. Keep religion out of schools and politics! Vote 💙....

[@rondent2879]

I believe it was 1981 Barry Goldwater warned about the Evangelicals. I quote; 'Mark my word,if and when these preachers get control of the (Republican) party, and they're sure trying to do so,it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise but these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise, I know I've tried to deal with them.'.

[@hereigoagain5050]

Wow! Barry Goldwater was scary. It says something if he was afraid.

[@floydblandston108]

@@hereigoagain5050- well, he was Jewish after all.

[@andrewmiller159]

Unfortunately no one paid attention to his warning!!

[@bethanydee1920]

"I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it.” Billy Graham

[@johncruser9853]

Barry Goldwater was not Jewish. ​@@floydblandston108

[@danhumphrey5755]

I had the same experience at my mothers funeral. Some were welcoming and sympathetic, and others I'd once been close to, wouldn't even speak to me. The pastor seized the opportunity to preach at me, sitting in the front row. I'd left that church and Christianity 25 years earlier, and they still held a grudge. Assholes!

[@huttone]

I recently decided Iwill never step foot in a Judeo Christian establishment for the rest of my life no matter who's funeral or wedding it is...

[@SaskiaLS]

There’s no hate quite like “Christian” love

[@GayleAllen-RINO]

Keep up the great work, I, to, was an evangelical, republican. I've lost my church, family, friends, party. Thank you for helping the rest of us, aliens in our homeland, find our way through the maga noise.

[@floydblandston108]

In all that, I hope you've kept your actual faith. To me, this is a trial- like something from the Old Testament that happened in Elijah or Jeremiah's time- where God separates those who are truly his own from those who aren't. Like the parable of the 'weeds in the wheat'!

[@GayleAllen-RINO]

yes, I am still Christian, just no longer evangelical. I am listening to Methodism today. I was raised in what looks like KKK, looking back. AOG and GQP is to radical today. @@floydblandston108

[@GayleAllen-RINO]

I AM A BLUE, NO MATTER WHO, VOTING REPUBLICAN, UNTIL MAGA MAFIA IS GONE NATIONWIDE. 💙 fascist wave a flag and carry a cross, just like Hitler. @@floydblandston108

[@smokejumper7045]

Gayle just a note; in Matthew 13 the parables of the Kingdom of heaven, Jesus speaks about our present age He refers to the Sower, this parable doesn't show the character of the Kingdom but the proportion of those who hear the gospel and fail to profit. Four classes of hearers, the wayside hearer, Here the seed (gospel) does not have a chance to "take root" The. Devils Birds vs19 "Criticism," "Doubt" , "Unbelief", "Prejudice", "Preocupation", etc. Snatch up the seed before it can be worked into the soil. Of the 4 classes the last quarter produce and even then not all reach full potentials. 1 in 4, today its estimated globally less than 1 in a hundred people on this planet are born again. And the stat I'm using was comprised in 1920 its probably worse today. Which brings me to the mustard tree parable. Again the kingdom of heaven is liken unto, the same as sower parable. Both used to teach the expansion of the church. The kingdom is not the church but Christendom, the mustard tree is an herb not a tree and grows to a height of 8 ft best grown in a garden and tended but this is planted in a field (world), where Christian's today are. It is no longer an herb but a tree a monstrosity in which the birds of the air, same Birds as in Sower parable and they are agents of the wicked one, the devil, Matt:13:4,19 these people are not converted but emissaries of Satan they lodge in the branches if the tree they do so for worldly advantage, the mustard tree started with 120 believers on pentecost and continued to enlarge all over the Roman world. But Satan befouls its purity and when in A.D 324 Emperor Constantine United the Church and State thousands and tens of thousands crowded the church for political gain, there was interest, fashion status etc. And it co tunes to this day. Church buildings full of Satans Birds, MAGA crowds are the new ones, red headed birds. They possess wealth, standing, and power. But still it the tree shelters the agents of darkness. Anyway, study to show thyself approved unto God a workman, and you know the rest. Thanks for letting me bend your ear Gayle.

[@jennamakesbugs]

Too bad that Christians don't keep their personal relationship with Jesus personal and feel they need to impose it upon everybody else.

[@bethprather9241]

It is to share the Good News of Jesus. It isn't about works good or bad. The truth is Jesus died for all people of all time our sins and rose again 3 days later. WE just have to know we are sinners, ask forgiveness, and MOSTLY just accept and believe it. !! It is life changing and. IM SO SORRY that many have absolutely been political mess and hypocritical.. We all are a mess. But that was sad.. It is all about Jesus. We took have been upset about what we have saw.. But truth if Jesus is true... The Best news ever

[@lindamullins1446]

When you are a Christian and believe in heaven and hell of course you want everyone to go to heaven so you should try to win souls for Christ so they will go to heaven when they die Also everyday life is sweeter. You can't keep it to yourself . But when truly rejected sometimes you have to just walk away and we do but it's hard.

[@ezbody]

Most of them, especially the Trump supporters, don't have even a hint of resemblance of relationship with God, it's all about tribalistic posturing and pretending to be moral. It never ceases to amuse me how blatantly they violate everything they stand for without even realizing it, because they have no moral understanding what they stand for, they are what is called "morally insane".

[@jennamakesbugs]

@@bethprather9241 no. You suffer from a shared delusion. It is past time we stop letting people carry on with this ridiculous mind virus. You need help.

[@jennamakesbugs]

@@bethprather9241 It definitely helps to pretend it's not just in your head if you can convince other people it's a real thing.

[@appnzllr]

The politicization of evengelicals is one of the reasons I no longer go to church.

[@catherinemacaskill1421]

I am a Canadian. I was raised by parents of Irish Catholic descent. I never heard a priest or a minister ever mention politics. My dad used to say that his politics were between him and God and no one else's business. Until the Trump craziness I had no idea that religion was such an extreme part of American politics. It's a dangerous and toxic mix.

[@ezbody]

Evangelicals were deliberately cultivated for political influence, similar to how the Russian government (beginning with Stalin) cultivated the Russian Orthodox Church.

[@patriciabradford4067]

When a Christian tells me how much they love DT their witness is blown.

[@kimberlyjohnson5923]

The Moral Majority is neither moral nor a majority😝

[@jpt7342]

L🤘7

[@huttone]

Oxymoron

[@user-pt3gi5ul2e]

I still have the Immoral Minority button. Time to dig it out again!

[@leannevandekew1996]

The Donald said "I am Presbyterian Protestant. I go to Marble Collegiate Church ... as often as I can, a lot." Two problems with Trump's declaration. First, Marble Collegiate, on New York's 5th Avenue, is a Reformed, not Presbyterian, church. And second, though the Trump family does have a history of attending Marble, officials there quickly sent out a statement saying Trump "is not an active member."

[@mrrecluse7002]

Trump only knows how to lie, and he does it constantly. He doesn't really know how to gather the truth, and defend the truth.

[@Anabee3]

May I rephrase/add?: "Two of MANY problems with Trump's declaration..." ty friend.

[@daviddickey4244]

what did you expect?

[@GlennC789]

It doesn't matter; they know he's not the least bit religious; and it wouldn't make a difference if he was. They know they're a critical part of his coalition and that he'll do whatever they want him to, in return for which they'll help keep him out of jail, pay off his debts, and make him president for life (possibly through a proxy like one of his sons).

[@debrakron9049]

What the religious right doesn’t realize is, once trump gets elected (hopefully he won’t) he doesn’t need the evangelicals anymore.

[@CarolLynnWilliams]

👉 My g/g-mother attended a Baptist Church in St. Louis. When the family moved to Los Angeles in 1927, she changed to Presbyterian because it was the only church within walking distance. As an adult, my mom did not go to church, but she sent me to non-evangelical Presbyterian "religious release" from 4th & 5th grade public school (one hour a week) and church/Sunday school. The focus was to accept Jesus as your personal savior. How can anyone really do that with informed consent at 9 or 10 years of age? I am none of that now. I consider myself spiritual and lean metaphysical/quantum. But we will never know, until the time comes, whether it's the absolute end of the physical (dust to dust) or whether some form of soul or energy goes on into the non-physical, either permanently crossed over into some abstract heaven/afterlife or possibly to return. It's all about beliefs, and that may as well be fantasyland. That's why it's crucial to keep any form of religiosity, spirituality or afterlife (mine or anyone else's), out of government. 🤔🙃

[@carmadefries3729]

I grew up evangelical in Indiana. They are extreme and I left as soon as I could. Religion = extremism. 😢

[@lupemerrit]

Evangelicals are pitifully nuts.

[@danshaffer6821]

My dad used to tell a joke.. The reason southern baptist don't make love standing up is because they're afraid it might lead to dancing.

[@xkot6431]

My Baptist boss told us that joke when I worked at a Southern Baptist organization back in the '90s. Another good one was "Why do you always take two Baptists with you when you go fishing? Because if you take only one, he'll drink all your beer."

[@NoSacredCowFla]

I didn't know what day of the week it was until Al showed up in my feed. Thanks Al. Al Franken is my Sunday service.💙💙💙

[@kimberlyjohnson5923]

I second that Al is my Sunday Service as well!

[@daviddickey4244]

along with "the atheist experience"

[@markseven7]

I was born into a loving, Christian family in The Church Of The Brethren, a northern, more gentle evangelism. I was baptized by trine emersion when I was 11. My parents were deacons who helped run the church. My dad taught an adult Sunday school class and even gave an occasional sermon. And today I am a devout atheist. Plato, St. Augustine and Nietzsche all had a crack at me. But it was Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens who broke through. Plus Robert De Niro, who when asked once, "If God exists, what do you want Him to say to you when you get to Heaven?" replied "Well, he's going to have a lot of explaining to do."

[@smokejumper7045]

Ok Mark, I've studied the Bible now for 50 years I was saved at 20 years old, my parents were not church goers at all. That said, the Bible is so much a miracle, if you do a study if any kind on the canonisity of the Bible it staggers the imagination. I can't read the prophets and not see Christ throughout, you take the odds of just 7 prophecies of Christ on just one day and the odds are so high of real prophetic ( aka God's fingerprints) all over it that if you piled silver dollars over the state of Texas 3 ft deep painted one side of a coin red, then blind folded yourself, then you could go anywhere in the state and reach in and pick it out, then you could talk atheism. You see Jesus spoke in Matt. And told parables and the seed (gosple) was spread, and continues to spread yet many things prevents acceptance, cares of this world, money, all the lust patterns, approbation lust, look all of them up theres a bunch. Good works to win God's favor wont cut it. It's a sin pattern. Follow on down and you get to the wheat and the Tares the wheat real Christian's are out there. The devil sows Tares false concepts fakes throughout the church, when asked by disciples well let's take them out, Jesus said you cant do that without damaging the wheat. The Angel's do that, the Tares gathering is going on right now Mark, what are Tares, Mormonism, Christian science, etc. to many to go into here, but end run is there's many churches out there to take you down the drain. A big bunch of Tares today ! Christian Nationalism, this idea of building a Christian utopian nation. It isnt happening, government is not the Christian's answer, these people will follow right into the Antichrists hands. The uneducated mob. More concerned with what beer brand to drink, and the price of Harley's. For some it's the false siren of Abortion, and because if all the false teaching and false prophets people dont know. And scared they are, people sense something isn't right. It's sad you had an education and now promote or try and justify your stance. That ship don't float. Sorry man your quite the gambler, the lake of fire and eternity separated from God is a horrible price to pay for a moment in time feeling like a big shot. Go ahead put your life on the black square if the roulette wheel, it hits red or green you lose your life. You willing to make that gamble ? Obviously some are your an example. I go off a couple of opinions one I dont feel that any sin is worthy of eternity in hell, dont hang on to it. Two, your sin is not greater than God's plan. Yet God is Holy our contact point with Him is justice. It must be satisfied, Christ died on the cross an innocent man, God the Father, aka blood avenger is coming after anyone responsible for his death and you Mark in your part of humanity in God's eyes are responsible. God will avenge. He's coming after you. I cant even wish you good luck, because theres no optional lucky thing that you can avoid it. If there's any luck it's this, reconsider what you might have been taught in your youth. Reconsider, your still alive you have a chance. Once dead it's over and it's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[@CaptainOnePocket]

You should see some of the talks and debates from Matt Dillahunty too!

[@markseven7]

@marks5407 And I would recommend reading any of Professor of Religious Studies at UNC, Dr. Bart Ehrman's, best sellers, such as "Misquoting Jesus" or his KZbin videos.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

That's pretty gay.

[@KellyElizabeth1]

I read Tim’s most recent book and it resonated with me so heavily. I am so thankful he is speaking against the false doctrine of christian nationalism. His theology is rock solid and he gives such a careful and balanced view of what Biblical Christianity really is and it’s all about Jesus and his teachings. I so wish that people outside the Christian faith would have the opportunity to hear this corrected view of true Christianity and not just what they see in the media and the right wing of the Republican Party that has completely lost their mind in the name of a convoluted gospel driven by fear. I cannot blame people for not wanting any part of that and for leaving churches that wrap the Bible in the American flag. There are so many great churches out there and many that have been lead astray.

[@user-nb3sx5kk4s]

I READ BOTH OF TIMS BOOKS. Wish every Trump lover would read them.Thank God for Tim taking a stand against this evil.

[@MrPaultiwanger]

I love evangelicals they are completely nuts .lol

[@edwardhamm5535]

And dangerous to democracy.

[@mariannagrossman7609]

Wonderful conversation. Thank you for this illumination! What a big mountain range of differences we all need to climb.

[@sherwoodweisheit8604]

The IRS should be more stringent in their enforcement of the Johnson Amendment!

[@doghairdontcarelindaniel7531]

More more more!!! Keep the understanding on how we got here. It’s so important. The truth will set us free.

[@daviddickey4244]

My dad was a southern baptist minister. Then I found people like Bertrand Russell, proclaimed one of the ten most intelligent men who ever lived, who said: "gods are created by man because of fear of death and superstition".

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

nope.... it was created to explain the afterlife and was quickly corrupted for money.

[@user-zb7uh2ob1r]

Good discussion. Interesting to hear Al ask the "just what does that mean?" questions from someone who did not grow up with the automatic repetition of many of us. I left the Christian church, after many years of active engagement, when trump became president and "Christian" turned into something unrecognizable, and the church adopted an ideology I did not want to be associated with. Hope for an afterlife, primarily to see what humans centuries hence make of the shifts in thought and culture and world view we are experiencing now.

[@MamaJanella]

I really enjoyed the interview. I'm an exvangelical Canadian. The American evangelical churches scare the shit out of me.

[@efowlermail]

When the power of love overcomes the love of power we shall be free- Jimi

[@VonnieOdette]

W.A.S.P.s were in charge a long time and have had a hard time living up to the first amendment throughout our history. But, most of our ancestors were forced to move to the American colonies due to religious persecution and we should be more supportive of the first amendment.

[@hereigoagain5050]

Many of the religious immigrants wanted to be the judge and mete out the lashes. Religious freedom for others: not so much.

[@user-pt3gi5ul2e]

Was shocked about flogging, tarring & feathering of wayfaring strangers in Maryland portrayed by Michener in /Chesapeake! But his research is very thorough.

[@janedagger]

I had a moment not unlike Mr Alberta's years ago. I was about 7 maybe, we were visiting my stepfather's parents in Kennett Mo, down in the bootheel in the early 60s. A few kids were lounging around the bible school I was dropped off at but, I didn't know them and sat in back and watched. Three were standing by the doorway talking about last night's fun... going into N**gertown and beating up small Black kids. They said that when some larger kids came up, they ran away. As they were talking the priest walked up, listened and then congratulated them on such FINE behavior and action. I... even at my young age found this repulsive, and beyond the pale... and at that moment I decided the church, the belief in a 'supreme' being, and the south... were just awful examples of American values, and have never stepped into a church since. I did become a priest, but not the ugly denominations and will forever espouse the values of love, understanding (except with evangelical fanatics who just want people to be in pain and miserable), and care.

[@shellyhill6804]

The conversation between the “Christians” discussed here and the wider society was loaded from the beginning. We have NEVER had honest conversations because that isn’t what their leadership wants. We have to start from square one.

[@bethanydee1920]

How would we have an honest conversation (what I would call an informed conversation) when most people calling themselves Christians have never even read the bible all the way through much less attempted to understand it and the others which I assume you're referring to as the wider siciety certainly haven't? That' has to be square one in my opinion. Otherwise how would you even know what you're disagreeing or agreeing with?

[@susanavilez9302]

Jews honor the Old Testament; Protestants honor the King James bible with 66 books, Catholics honor the New American bible with 73 books and other Christain religions honor bibles with as many as 100 books, Evangelicals just make crap up as they go, and every Evangelical church is different. None of the Christian religions have the same bible, beliefs, teachings and doctrine. So, for those who want to impose their faith and bible in government, whose is absolute? Exactly, why the founding fathers kept religion out of government, they were atheist, deist and Christians.

[@MYRRHfamily]

It’s all garbage. Your garbage isn’t better than their garbage.

[@hereigoagain5050]

Lol! "Evangelicals just make crap up" 🙂 They follow the conversion experience of St Paul on the road to Damascus and believe a living relation with Jesus beats studying musty old books. Yes, it gives them a license to throw their poop.

[@joedanero5360]

There are 30 something thousand denominations. Your position is strong.

[@GABABQ2756]

Spot on!

[@hilakummins3104]

Add to that the thousands of translations these stories have undergone -- I know Rabbinic scholars who are *still* studying & interpreting the Hebrew & Greek meanings of words, which can greatly alter the overall meaning... there are no absolutes in the books of the Bible after many studies & translations which had political and cultural implications from country to country, sect to sect.

[@alexisb240]

Love your show!!!

[@stephaniebart-horvath1382]

Very interesting and informative podcast. I wish so you were still in the Senate where your vote would have carried great weight. You were are so needed there. Yet, I do appreciate your public platform.

[@wthomas5697]

Over the course of my life I've had the misfortune of having to associate with a number of these people. They are simply scared individuals who don't have a grasp on reality and the fact that they are going to die one day. So they invent solutions to their problem.

[@Valerie-mz4et]

Always thought provoking. I has a watered down version of the chastising at a funeral happen to me a few years ago. Not pleasant.

[@katmandudawn8417]

If you want a solid but more liberal church in the South , try the Episcopalian Church. We are jokingly sometimes called Whiskeypalians, whenever 3 or 4 are gathered together, there’s a fifth. 😉 Although, Episcopalian is one of the earliest Christian religions in The original colonies in America it’s pretty laid back and welcoming.

[@floydblandston108]

Do you know the one about the miracle that occurs when a second baptist enters the liquor store? They are both immediately struck blind until completing their purchase.

[@alise1973]

The definition is not what I was taught. I was taught the "no middle man" was being a Protestant. Evangelical is that they must "evangelize" which is why missions and missionaries are so important to the faith sect.

[@wcwright44]

I was raised in an Evangelical Free church, dancing, card playing…all fun stuff was a no. I think I was an Atheist at 9.

[@user-pt3gi5ul2e]

My presbyterian / methodist youth group existed to play euchre on Thursdays and go canoeing in MN in the summer! We served 2 banquets & took about 10 teenagers on a 5 day trip. New gung ho preacher came in and was peeved when we refused to merge bank accounts with his concept of weekly dinner & bible study for each grade K - 12. He had to wait for a certain group of us to graduate!

[@reptilez]

Hi al. greetings from Winona MN 👋🌊

[@cadilacdesert]

Right on Al, good to hear from you.

[@mushroom_thrillers]

Al, don’t be lazy! If you interview a bestselling author, then READ THEIR BOOK. Even better, give a fair and thoughtful book review.

[@katherinecompton6591]

Very interesting, thanks, Al

[@catmeldo]

Great show!!!! Thank you all!!!

[@tod3msn]

As a Catholic, I pray to God directly. We are given options to pray to Saints and Blessed Virgin Mary, in addition, it is not an either or proposition about praying to God. Confession is in the end internal as in last rites because if you are sincere (which only God knows) no matter what sin you are forgiven. Traditional confession is in the end internal as you determine on your own your sincerity (only God would know).

[@MrPaultiwanger]

As a alter boy in the 70s in Chicago I find this so good

[@808bigisland]

There are no gods. What you describe is scizophrenia religiosa.

[@NathanCroucher]

Simply does not exist..

[@drumcircler]

Folly

[@hereigoagain5050]

Also a good priest in the confessional box will help you work through your issues.

[@carolinemaybe]

The funny thing about the Methodists is that in the early 20th century they didn’t drink, smoke, play cards, listen to music or dance. They changed.

[@oldasrocks9121]

In his latest Netflix special comedian Ari Shaffir says Christianty is Judaic fan fiction. Hilarious

[@hereigoagain5050]

All the fun parts of Judaism without the snips and dietary restrictions.

[@floydblandston108]

Modern Evangelical Trumpanzeeism is pure 'Head Canon', for sure.

[@efowlermail]

I was taught that because the separation of church and state are foundational to American exceptionalism, mixing the two is tantamount to a renunciation of citizenship.

[@chezmoi42]

Can't think of the 'Jesus at the door' story without adding the caption everyone probably knows: Knock, knock. Who's there? _It's Jesus, let me in._ Why? _I have to save you._ From what? _From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in._

[@brianmarcum8306]

God bless Tim Alberta and Al Franken!!

[@ZeroOskul]

29:07 In the '80s or '90s, Timothy Leary predicted that in the future, which would be now, everyone would have their own screen through which we would each get our own understanding and our own experience of reality, which would lead us to question authority and actually think for ourselves in our own ways. He perceived the idea in the way it would relate to free-thinkers, and, perhaps, turn us all into free thinkers; but instead it has enslaved most people into a group-think where people who don't get the same info as some other people are seen as obviously wrongheaded and demonized, and those who ascribe to certain views can no longer flip through the broadvast channels on TV and radio to find out what information other people are getting. Then we (people other than they) see them interviewed at some rally or event and we cannot fathom where they are getting these ideas from or what their idioms and slang mean, and since we don't know the source we cannot explore it to get a better understanding of them and "they" avoid the information "we" get and do not understand how we come to the conclusions we reach. It is like the story of Babel where everyone speaks but no groups understand each other, so nobody can get a foothold on what is going on outside their own niches so they cannot trust each other because the words one group uses mean something entirely different to any other group. It tears us apart as a people. The most annoying, to me, is that whenever some politician or political journalist, or pundit disagrees with and corrects somebody else, clickpait titles pop up that "X DESTROYS Y and Z". To me, "destroy" means "cause to cease existing through destruction", it has never meant "gets a leg-up on" or "corrects in a condescending way".

[@hereigoagain5050]

All the better to separate slobs from their money.

[@johnpierce7249]

"How religion and authoritarianism have come together in modern America was on display Thursday, when right-wing activist Jack Posobiec opened this weekend’s conference of the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) outside Washington, D.C., with the words: “Welcome to the end of democracy. We are here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here.” He held up a cross necklace and continued: “After we burn that swamp to the ground, we will establish the new American republic on its ashes, and our first order of business will be righteous retribution for those who betrayed America.” Heather Cox Richardson

[@user-pt3gi5ul2e]

An apologist on Bill Maher's Real Time said that CPAC creep was just joking based on Drumpf's day one dictator "joke". I don't believe her for a minute and am disturbed that Wench What's Her Name is opinion editor of Newsweek! I don't need to read that rag again. And here I go, sculpting my bubble some more.

[@prant8998]

Single issue voters. If you can get enough single issues you can win an election. I love how Tim Alberta somehow knows that JC had to teach his disciples how to prey, as if he was there and witnessed the whole operation. He wasn’t there, and neither was anyone else that wrote a word about him for generations. Nothing sells like a story. Perfect for Republicans.

[@floydblandston108]

Actually, two of the four Gospels were written by Jesus' *actual* disciples. I think they would have known.

[@rschreck]

@@floydblandston108 Most New Testament scholars and other experts on the subject say all four Gospels were written anonymously.

[@floydblandston108]

@@rschreck ; .....and way back when they were actually compiling the Bible, the "scholars and other experts" thought differently. What's your point?

[@floydblandston108]

As a believing non-evangelical Christian, the difference is 'activism'. Evangelicals feel driven to proselytize, teach, and convince without regard for understanding, ability, education, or other restraints. It's like every 1st grader who just learned about dinosaurs, spending every waking hour driving everyone else crazy telling them about dinosaurs.

[@danshaffer6821]

Thanks for that floyd. There are some of us who don't feel so compelled to enlighten others.

[@terenceorourke546]

This is a good place to start in understanding what is going on. I like Al, but he seemed very unprepared. The key is it has almost nothing to do with being a Christian anymore. The teachings of Jesus play no role, but Christianity is a label for them to hide behind, because it is all about authoritarianism (they hold the same beliefs, in sense, as the Taliban). The authoritarian personality type is very gullible, and forceful personalities have realized how easy it is to manipulate them. There are just enough poorly informed but well-meaning people who will buy what the very bad people, the Trumps, Hawleys, Cruzes, MTGs say, they can then get and maintain power, which is what it is all about for them. This is the "base," and as long as they can be stoked by fear of the other, this will be an issue. They are all able to tolerate astonishing levels of cognitive dissonance, able to hold many incompatible beliefs at once, and they are extremely reluctant to admit they are wrong. What Trump has unlocked more than anyone is making it OK to be this way and say these things in public and not be censured, a sort of shamelessness of which he is the true master.

[@floydblandston108]

Well said.

[@efowlermail]

The backlash to electing a black man as president will be longer than his term.

[@sandicampbell3252]

Al, You really should read “American Carnage “. It is excellent!!

[@EvangelismforGod]

Listened to the audio book first then decided to get a hard copy for my bookshelf. Great job Tim!

[@esmerelda6003]

I left the Southern Baptist church at about age 9 - that was it for me and organized religion.

[@brianmacadam4793]

I often go back to the story of Jesus and his trial. Render unto Caesar that which is Caeser's, render unto GOD that is GOD's. The evangelicals seem to use evangelism as a means to bypass the teachings of the Christ. And then they say that GOD has told me this directly and I don't have to justify my actions to a priest, a rabbi, an iman, or a Caesar.

[@floydblandston108]

You are correct. Today's church is the same one that killed Jesus then, and they would do it again if given the opportunity.

[@brianmacadam4793]

I'll offer another quotation from the Christ "Forgive them for they know not what they do." I'm not into religion any more but I don't see any point in fanning religious flames.

[@user-mf6li4sw6n]

Jesus is there for anyone if the call is sincere. I’m not of any religion and I once wanted to end my life. I prayed for a sign that God is real. I fell asleep and was awoken by his presence in my bedroom at 3am. He telepathicly said that I was safe. You are safe you are infinitely safe. Repeated until I fell asleep. He never told me to become a Christian. I am today not a member of any sect. No need to. Life is eternal for everything. Everything is part of the greater whole.

[@michaelryan5364]

To further render the term CRIME FAMILY meaningless, we should assign that same characterization, using his/her family name, to each Republican dupe and office-holder.

[@evangelicalsnever-lie9792]

They are terrifyingly fascistic! 👀

[@mosescarolina9733]

Love you Al Franken....you really delivered too. I'm on the Alberta train, listening to all his interviews (bought the actual hardback edition of Tim Albertas and definitely getting American Carnage now) but this was best informative interview for an ex Southern Baptist family church formed after our American Revolutionary War fighting grandfather settled after the war and our family homes & land mimick the clan living of Skye). I left this church but live in the community on the same land as I grew up after leaving for 30 yrs. I'm unmarried and actually live deep in the woods but just as the clans of Scotland evolved away through the generations from the clan chiefs so has my family community devolved into a community of distant cousins. I left for school and was able to leave the church no problem but just having an interest in political science & political history and all the different beliefs through the centuries & archeology and most of all, last 10 years of knowledge being upended that we were one of many types of humans inhabitanting the earth & Neanderthals were the first artists , well, all that lifts you out & away from what I was taught as a child in McDonald Baptist Church but one thing that little church did teach was just one lesson....What would Jesus do? Being a Christian is living by his example and as my wise grandfather who walked 5yrs across Africa, Italy, France and Germany fighting fascists told me "Don't spend your life looking for happiness that will never be. Be your authentic self and happiness always comes" He also carried the mail 16 miles a day in the uptown, mainly African American community and some of my proudest memories are ppl from that community who were children when he was their postman and now as elders in that community, they have the best memories. All of this to say....the great thing about America should not be what is taken and that is the power to "Do you" and no one believed that more than out founding fathers. Arguably, the one who gave them all the kick in the ass to go for it was Thomas Paine who happened to be atheist ah. Nobody cared. Just like nobody gave a shit who was Republican or Democrat pre2016. We have had too much stripped from us as it is. FUCK DINALD TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY for what they've tried and continue to do. ....and screw the Australian ppl believe over their own government, Rupert Murdoch and FUCK ELON MUSK (of a ducks ass) and his South African ass that guarantee , none of these dip shits who think he's great knows that. Love you Al. Feeling better now

[@richardrosebealprestonjohn3144]

The idea is ...... Remember that ..... We can all have ideas .... and different ones too! Why would your idea be better than mine?!!! Keep your ideas and my ideas out of politics!!

[@peterphalam8946]

What is spiritually ignorant in the Evangelical groups, that a soul comes into a fetus after the child is born and viable.

[@cheriewolfsen2491]

Great Conversation! I learned so much! Thank You!

[@ennisdodd1888]

Surprising there was no discussion of how Putin infused the early evangelical movement (Farewells) with a lot of money and messaging. Malcom Nance can speak about it and its ties to the Russian influence in the NRA and the conservative movement.

[@user-pt3gi5ul2e]

Yikes! I need to listen to more Malcolm! He's on my list of credible sources.

[@lindamullins1446]

I m a Christian. Evangelist was more the minister that went from church to church. When a preacher went on vacation he would come and hold the service. Also at a revival at church that may last week or longer the Evangelist would preach part of the time and music etc. But all of us should be evangelicals not in name but in action trying to bring others to church and get out the word of God to others. People say you should keep it to yourself We believe in heaven and hell. If you truly believe you will compel other to come to church or even at your home or antwhere to give your heart to God in Jesus name by repenting for past sins and anytime you sin repent stay connected to God by music praise and repentence And study the word of God for yourself and dont let anyone lead you down the wrong path. Study to shoe yourself approved.

[@rao4sos]

To be absolutely franken, this was a sea change. Jesus bats last. Thank you Leo Kottke

[@celiakane793]

Thank you for shedding light on this issue. I’ve noticed this for many years. I’ve also been harshly spoken to when my father died. It seems that Michigan conservatives have no feelings.

[@patrickmaguire5611]

I gave up Catholicism for lent one year and the religion discussion with my parents came up when my brother switched churches. My Dad says to me, "some church is better than none at all" I responded that "I have been going to church." Mom got super excited and filled with joy, "Which one?" I said, "Kingdom Hall". Mom let out a horrified scream, "Ohhhh Nooooo!" I said, "So some church isn't better than none at all." I never went to kingdom hall, that was 35 years ago, Mom and Dad never brought up religion again.

[@bethprather9241]

I was southern Baptist and thought I was protestant until the last few years . Anyway, I'm my small Baptist Church in 1993 I do remember the doctor being shot but besides saying abortion is wrong then and maybe 2 or more times in two more Southern Baptist Churches. THERE way have been 3 or 4 times it was preached or in a Sunday school lesson.. Until more recent. Oh I'm replying because I'm pretty sure in my small Southern Baptist Church in 1993 and the bombings, it was preached to me that was absolutely the wrong way to go about it. So there are many churches and I too am not Southern Baptist anymore but the Christian Church that is evangelical too. But in Ky the entire mess was met differently as we went north. A half and half issue with Trump and issues on the parties. WAS in three churches I watch, the more north we went the difference was clear.

[@huttone]

I can't stop thinking about Buddy Christ and George Carlin in the movie Dogma....

[@geoffreydonaldson2984]

Heh, great revelation story-the surprise how another Christian denomination contrasted with the one Peter was raised in. I was raised in the United Church of Canada, my father’s roots being austere Presbyterianism, our church presumably tempered by the “looser” Methodism of the other main amalgamated denomination (they joined in 1925). It wasn’t the only religion I knew of because my mother’s roots were High Anglican, but my dad always regarded that church with suspicion: “…too Roman Catholic,” he didn’t mind pointing out. As conservative as he was, he took us cub scouts (all in the UCC congregation) to a Baptist church down in the city, Toronto. I didn’t figure out why until later. My dad was a CBC cameraman, travelled abroad a fair bit, news and documentaries; he was assigned to Ghana when I was just a small lad, while our family was still living in “Hogtown” (we moved out to rural Whitevale when I was in grade three, two-room school house, grades one to eight). That’s when I met the first Black person ever, a Ghanan news reporter on an exchange program, my dad brought him home from the office to have lunch with us. My younger siblings-toddlers-and I really took to this guy, his huge white smile and big laugh. We’d never seen black skin and hair before- but he was so friendly -and very handsome, too-my mother was completely smitten! My dad was proud to be so enlightened, probably the first Black person ever seen in our whole neighbourhood (there just weren’t many Black people in Canada back then). Some time later we moved out to the sticks, 40miles away. Turns out my dad had a big disagreement with another of our small-town church elders because, despite the UCC sending missionaries to Africa, this old prick would not allow an African boy’s choir that was touring UCC churches in Canada to perform in our little country church. He and my old man had a tussle on our veranda, the screen door got broken (I heard the whole thing from under my bed). In the end the old fucker pulled rank on my dad and the choir never came. So that’s why my dad took us boys down to this Baptist church in Toronto. We go in, lots of Black people in their Sunday best. We guests were seated on the front pew. My buddy whispers in my ear, “Look!!” But I was already looking, my jaw hanging open. Up where a pedal organ and choir would be in our own church were drums, electric guitars and amplifiers with the lights on, nice and warm-. And we’re all looking at each other, barely containing our incredulity. “What the…” Understand that we boys were just getting into Johnny Horton, Eddie Cochran and this new British band called the Beatles. We just didn’t know electric guitars were allowed in church. Band comes out, four, five guys with fros and three-piece tangerine suits, start rockin’ the joint and the preacher comes out, then the choir, all Black ladies in long purple silk gowns. And they just let ‘er rip. After the first number, the preacher welcomes us to his church and the congregation claps and cheers-and we’re, like, totally blown away. We just couldn’t believe -at least until then-that you could do stuff like that in church. Made our services look like a funeral attended by corpses! And I really believe I saw the light that very night: I suddenly realized I never really believed in God-really, not much later than abandoning belief in Santa Claus. Not that I disrespected our hosts’ celebration of faith but, ironically, the shock of that revelatory music and emotion was the key which opened my eyes to a truth I’d been hiding about myself. At the time I actually didn’t know it was called Atheism, alls I knew was it was okay to be in a strange church, feeling the spirit! Praise the Lord!!! I’m still like that. Not as crazy as it sounds: the UCC has actually ordained an atheist preacher, a woman -earning it the seething hatred of some southern evangelical church -or at least some preacher in one of the many, many such independent Congregationalist churches in North America who actually recommends invading UCC congregations-up in Canada- and exorcising them! It’s online! Check it out! Crazy, man! Now, my coffee buddy has problems with this ordainment -but he’s a retired, ordained UCC minister who has his philosophical point of view-more like Maimonides than Balthazar Gratian-and he regularly invites and welcomes atheists to the UCC church on our little West Coast island community -just has a hard time putting an atheist behind the pulpit. But at least he’s open to discussion. And no way he’d ever subscribe to hatred. Thanx for the show. Alls I can say is Thank God I’m an Atheist!

[@joeharris3878]

How can a person grow up in America and not know what evangelism is ? It's the Great Commission Matthew 28:19 This is a command to every Christian of every denomination .

[@elizabeth9134]

Al, you need to see ”Elmer Gantry."

[@NickHolum]

Tax them into oblivion

[@rschreck]

I *SO* wanted Al to ask Tim, “As a Jewish person who hasn’t accepted Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior, what is going to happen to my soul when I die?”

[@efowlermail]

Do they pray or prey?

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

Religion is predatory...

[@bonniekertes8830]

I am a born again Christian. I searched many religions. I found in every case the hypocrisy of everyone of them. If you don't believe like us your going to hell. The judgements of parisioners. They teach the only way to heaven is through Jesus. I agree with that. And he will be the one to judge you. So, as a result I do not believe in any form of organized religion. I have my personal relationship with God and that is what it is about. Seperation of Church and State was instated for a reason.

[@old_grey_cat]

Seems US politics has done the same thing to "Evangelical" that it did to "Communist" and "socialist": take a name given to a group of ideals-based rules which are meant to help people be humanity-at-its-best, a name which gets used by groups using rules which make them do things actually against those ideals, and have it mean " This group of people who show the worst sides of humanity." The saddest part, for me, is the way the religious extremist group behind the Banana Republicans are trying to stop people "indoctrinating" public school children with demonstrations of kindness based on the rules of humanity-at-its-best. Where they succeed, they make their sad, twisted version of reality be the only example shown in the schools - even when the students' lived experience shows how twisted the twisted version is.

[@oldelmo8788]

In the Catholic religion , evangelism is when you spread the word of God .

[@YABBAHEY1]

Clannish braggadocios under the guise of humility. Keep it to yourself & we'll get along fine. I like old cathedrals, the really huge old ones for the craftsmanship because I can reconcile those were 'simpler' times w/nobles & their vanities & all. But not so much the modern ones

[@hereigoagain5050]

Tax free entertainment.

[@YABBAHEY1]

@@hereigoagain5050 Tax free comment

[@bibigems]

Tim Alberta is so eloquent and has really shed light on today's Evangelical church under the evil influence of donald trump. Tim Alberta is one of my heroes. The hatred of these so called "christians" is so disgraceful, so un-Christian. Thank God for Tim Alberta. I highly respect him and will get his books.

[@macswanton9622]

I hope he knows that's not the only tune Kottke ever wrote

[@Niko-777]

If people would simply live and let live and refrain from infringing upon others’ lives, everyone would benefit. Imagine a world where nobody tried to change people to fit their ideas of worthy and acceptable. Imagine if people stopped needing a nemesis in order to feel better about themselves. It might be heaven on earth.

[@hlnbee]

To change the subject, my English teacher would roll over in her grave! (I’m 81) Many people today seem to say, “me and …….” When I was growing up people, were taught to say, “….. and I.” The other person should be said first out of politeness!

[@mobius_tokamak_drums]

Personally, I was forced by a born again abusive father to attend the United Methodist Church from the point when I wised up and stopped believing at age ten until my parents divorced the minute I reached majority at eighteen. I never looked back or gave it a second thought unless someone asked me about my religious views. I'm not an atheist who just doesn't believe in the God of Abraham. I don't believe gods exist. These days, I like Poetic Naturalism- All that exists is nature. All else is a manner of speaking. Human beings don't have access to the truth, they only have access to a conversation about the truth. What's real is the wavefunction of the universe.

[@N2MyGroove]

Poetic Naturalism, I’ve never heard of that before. I like it 👍 Sounds like Gia

[@diannekrogers]

Wow! GREAT podcast & great info! This changed (softened) my heart!

[@StanfordMommaerts-Brown]

I should like to communicate a clip to Tim. How do I?

[@cheryl7623]

AWESOME

[@GaryHurd]

Evangelical politics isn't a new problem in America. I recommend reading; Daly, John Patrick 2002 "When Slavery was Called Freedom: Evangelicalism, Proslavery, and the Causes of the Civil War" University of Kentucky Press.

[@avalonsunday]

If you read any history, you'll discover that there has always been a political element to being a follower of Jesus. Loving your neighbor is political, healing the sick is political, creating community is political, building hospitals is political, helping those without housing is political. The difference is that the early christians were not trying to dominate others. This idea that faith should be 'just personal" is a late modern invention/interpretation. None of the great religions of the world have ever espoused it. Originally politics and religious understandings were always mixed and rarely separated from each other. Tom Holland's book Dominion is an excellent account of the christianizing for good or ill of the western world. Lastly, There are many kinds of Christianity in America and quite a few have nothing in common with Evangelicals or their leaning toward political domination. To give perspective most Christians outside of America lean more to the center left and not the right. As usual the US is an outlier.

[@MrMorokiatt]

What can we say about the Christians who see every night the systematic destruction of the Palestinians? Many see NO imperative to stop the slaughter. Could that explain why Oct 7th happen? This is an old conflict.

[@dbob3405]

He needs to be on a panel with Margaret Atwood

[@bubbabare6811]

The history of Christianity, from Peter v. Paul, is,, coalition of a group of people holding 'true' beliefs,acting as the temporal authority of god under the banner of man/god jesus the christ as his only bride, the church. The original intolerance of " the church" wasn't against pagans, it was against other groups of other followers under the banner of jesus the christ , the his only bride,the one true church, the only temporal manifested authority of god.... As long as Christianity exists in a "church" format the actual teaching of Jesus will never bear his intended fruit.

[@danieladecker7231]

The rhetoric is “giving your life to Jesus“. It is a cover, and a lie, infact is more about giving your life to evil and covering your ass with saying is “Jesus the center of your life“.

[@deeliciousplum]

For a fair portion of this discussion, I was intrigued and heartened by Tim's thoughts and concerns. Here comes the "and, then," part... And, then, Tim spouts outs the parroted nonsense of Secularists being at war with a god. I was surprised that with all of Tim's experiences and knowledge base that he would be of the mind to think that a person and/or that communities who do not possess any beliefs in gods nor goddesses nor the supernatural would be at war or in conflict with something that they possess no belief in. Please, do not get me wrong. I am a passionate supporter of the freedom of and the freedom from religion. Our current premier, of Québec, has created a faux Secular law which is host to human rights violations against our religious populace, e.g., to Muslims, Hindus, and numerous other visible minority groups who are religious/spiritual. Legault used a notwithstanding clause, a mechanism that gives our premier the power to be a harmful tyrannical 'leader', to deny religious people opportunities and in turn their safety as it ennobles racists to harm our friends and neighbours who are not perfectly blended in with Legault's ingroup(s).

[@deeliciousplum]

Oh? I ought to have waited a little bit before posting my comment. Tim was not reflecting his own position on the claims about those who are focused on the secularization of various institutions. He was sharing on the position(s) of religious leaders who he has concerns of. Forgive me. I am filled with an unnecessary reactiveness. 😊

[@hereigoagain5050]

Just last week a horde of Secularists, riding electric bikes, invaded Sunday services, passed out THC gummies, and decorated the cross with a rainbow flag. Then they preached evolution theory and global warming. It was horrible.

[@deeliciousplum]

@@hereigoagain5050Said in my best Marlon Brando (from his role in Apocalypse Now) vocal inflection: "The horror. The horror." 🤭

[@dianewach4168]

the great leo kottke played your guest off stage. but it was different from other episodes. so, that happened. i liked it. way to go editor! i couldn't stop giggling.

[@dianewach4168]

it reminded me of the oscars. or the gong show.

[@user-pt3gi5ul2e]

10 days to get to this homework. Maybe I'll learn which syllable to accent in ""prosyletize". Hmm, just looked it up. Swore the definition of evangelical involved recruiting to one's faith in 1980s. Maybe I've been misusing the term loosely for ages. Like someone's being evangelical (looking for converts) with their music if their car stereo is loud.

[@bethprather9241]

I think there is so many statements that people make and we honestly have to realize that education pays a huge part in any thinking that we have actually been there. As in the founding fathers and the freedom of religion, at the time Im pretty sure it was meant because of leaving the Church of England. As in it was still about the one true God of the Bible. But prayer in schools with the took God out??( impossible) Ive debated so much as a Christian Ky who never had prayer over the microphone growing up. SEP Of Church and state was started by the Baptist Church in a letter to Thomas Jefferson..But those of us that taught for years and know Jesus, have prayed silently many times. Kids and students do too. It depends on where u live in the US and in fact I think Clinton pushed legislation that actually gave teachers and others in public places their freedom of religion too. In 28 years teaching plus ... We always started the day with the pledge to the American flag. Always. But I not only dont want students being prayed over by buddist too, this Trump and Christ conection bunch that cant see truth I Dont want them prayi g over them either

[@totonow6955]

Let's all talk about the bombing of Gaza. Will this man speak to the death of so many. Isn't this what is most important right now but still in line with the theme here?