Time Commanders - Battle of Tigranocerta

[@liljasere]

Used to watch every episode back when I only had 5 channels

[@Britishwolf89]

Anyone who plays TW could win these battles, but what makes this more challenging is that it's 4 people co-ordinating an army under pressure. That's what makes this show fun, you learn alot about historical battles and you watch 4 people squirm in panic when they realise their plan sucked.

[@rainunderscoredot]

i love watching them do this stuff, all militaristic, whilst i'm over here exploiting the hell out of the game.

[@hallamhal]

It's a good demonstration of how the chain of command makes a difference in the outcome of a battle. That's one thing the Romans really nailed, that helped their army to be so effective.

[@joshc1981]

Give me pixilatedapollo, legendoftotalwar and Lionheartx10 and I doubt there isn't a battle in this show we couldn't beat.

[@papabumba478]

the game wasn’t out yet, and there are some other people playing as the opponents to make the opponents feel more historically accurate to what would happen. Which is pretty cool, cause boy did the ai have issues and historically inaccurate 🤣🤣

[@awordabout...3061]

"Do we have nuclear weapons?" Well, you can't fault his ambitious style, he's certainly got that going for him!

[@Matt-cz6ti]

If Total War players went on this show “Hammer and anvil?” “Of course hammer and anvil”

[@joshc1981]

Give me pixilatedapollo, legendoftotalwar and Lionheartx10 and I doubt there isn't a battle in this show we couldn't beat.

[@mgore90]

I love the idea of 'mainstream battles' haha Like there's hipsters out there that are like,' I used to love the battle of Tigranocerta, but since it was on that Time Commanders show it's just gone too mainstream man!'

[@al3x4nderthegreat80]

41:48 engage them with the cataracts.... kill me now🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@anthonyellis987]

The defeat was the King's fault. If you going to kill anyone who tells you something you don't want to hear then you're not going to know until it's too late to do anything about it.

[@douglasfels9789]

Send the 'cataracts' forward! Wait...what do my grandmother's cloudy glaucoma filled eyes have to do with this battle? :/

[@KiljiArslan]

I wish they brought this back,

[@BloodiestMargie]

@Comptech224 It's implying that Tigranocerta is one of those battles that isn't well-known or considered "mainstream" the way Cannae, Watling Street, Pharsalus, Gaugamela, and others are.

[@laughingalex7563]

Whats funny is, this battle should be taught more, especially in this day and age, as a tale of how not to get people to help you. Simply the nature of the kings defeat being entirely because he kept having his own scouts executed for telling him things he didn't want to hear, which was...well there job lol.

[@stalfithrildi5366]

"Your plan sound much better once you've had it explained to you, yes?" Eddie Mair

[@wierdwesterner]

Everybody who says that this team was horrible is an idiot. They won the battle because they used their troops in a way in which they forced the Romans to fight in a manner that didn't suit legionaries. They had an idea of using their archers to disrupt the river crossing even when the experts ruled it out... they sacrificed a single unit to give them the initiative and win the battle... we can debate whether it was entirely deliberate or not! General Slaphead realised at one point he was losing his cataphracts in a trench fight and pulled them out and charged them back in. He recognised the strength of his best units which won the battle for him. Unwittingly the team used a single formation of archers as bait, it's fire drove the Barbarian cavalry away from it's supporting troops, encouraged two cohorts of legionary infantry to fight uphill while the rest of the infantry were still crossing the river, stringing out the Roman army where the Cataphracts could pick them off cohort by cohort. The Romans wanted to cross the river, form up and fight out on the plain, the experts were going to let them do that, this team refused to do this and in the end the way in which the Romans were fighting at a disadvantage, charging infantry uphill and isolated cavalry attacks against light troops on unfavourable ground outweighed the disorganised way in which the team advanced. Their main force may have been late to the fight but it was still taking place on the ground that they had chosen to fight the battle on. Kudos to them.

[@CruelestChris]

No, they won because their army was based on a ludicrously exaggerated figure from Roman propaganda.

[@adamcm2130]

Well fear of death just from telling Tigran the Romans are coming shows how bad the command structure was :p

[@Hyde_Hill]

Coleen McColough's Master's of Rome series also covers this period pretty well. It goes from Marius in Numidia till Octavian's victory over Brutus and Cassus.

[@JediJaras]

@Heliossoileh I agree. To me at least, what got me was the fact that the team sounded so, well, bored. Plus, 'cataracts'? Every time I hear a mispronouciation like that, a little bit of me dies inside.

[@S-Nova0]

Incompetence in battle too. Generally a good strategist although the poor commanding was the bane of his empire in this battle - plus, his main general had died previously. Actually it's a mix of things. Because his capital was so close to recently conquered territory, he was unable to deploy any sort of worthwhile infantry as there was no army to draw from. Levies and peasants made up the infantry, he relied on cats stupidly and failed.

[@Blisterdude123]

I'd swarm that ford with my bubble of any army. They've got enough archers to do some serious damage to the Romans while they're crossing in a big mass. And while they peter across being shot at, swarm em' with skirmishers, and repeated cavalry charges.

[@MarkoDarkoYT]

I think its just to say the amount had in real life, the units are just a representation of that.

[@yetidodger6650]

I used to love this....I was also smoking loads of skunk in a bong.

[@Shadowofromefanatic]

harder that you'd expect lol, they usually go out because of the speed they fly at, you have to tie rags soaked in something flammable onto them to make them stay alight

[@jamiam23]

Its the same answer every week though destroy their cavalry. Then stick your front line on theres and hit them in the flanks

[@alomajagroobassie3001]

They could have deployed under the walls of the city and mounted their archers on it. They would have had excellent covering fire from the walls and if everything went wrong they could hole up in the city.

[@shieldwolfminiatures8645]

The romans would have probably not bothered crossing. They would have simply cirlced around. The battle would have been fought however for sure, since if the Armenians opted to bariccate themselves inside the walls that would have been disastrous. 1.Too many mouths to feed. 2.Bad for morale (i.e. you acknowledge the enemy will defeat you in open ground). 3. Roman armies were experts at siege. It would have been the Armenians tomb regardless.

[@ihatecrad25]

My question is... How the hell did the Romans win the real battle? The cataphracts were so powerful a hit and run charges supported by archers followed by an overwhelming charge from the infantry would have easily wiped out the romans that were severely outnumbered... I suppose undisciplined troops aren't the easiest to command especially with 100k of them...

[@nuraby_9228]

The Romans focused on the only real professional troops in the Armenian army, the cataphracts, and when they fled, the rest of the army, made up of mostly levies and peasants, also fled.

[@davidstears7037]

"Send the archers. Just the archers. Put them on the hill and uhh... Oh right, have the infantry defend them." "What infantry? You didn't tell us to send any." Also not using the Catafracts where they could have been used to intercept like, wtf I loved this show but damn their brains confused me xD

[@beebeb3524]

These people are so softly spoken.

[@RomanLegioXx]

there were some legions who wore blue, maybe they were present on that battlefield that day.

[@DuizhangLu]

How the hell did they win?

[@RomanLegioXx]

well i dont know more.. but you search the legio xiiii, this legions wore blue =)

[@deschloro]

They were bad but this does demonstrate just how terrible King Tigran was!

[@Tareltonlives]

@BloodiestMargie Pontus and Armenia sadly don't get much attention compared to Greece and Rome. I recommend Mayor's book "The Poison King" for more on this war.

[@oliviermosimann6931]

Fun tv game I find 😊

[@CalloftheWarrior1]

@BloodiestMargie I'd argue that Cannae, Watling Street, Pharsalus and Gaugamela are not really well known either, in my experience, sadly, people don't care about history anymore. =[

[@MrAlex_Raven]

The what? Why are you asking us?

[@sonicology]

I've never heard a team so completely indifferent to the fact that they killed the enemy general, you would think that the surprise alone that they had managed to accomplish this (albeit by accident) despite their compete incompetence would cause them to sound excited, but you would be wrong. The only good part of this episode is from 54:15 when the experts recreate the battle.

[@diagreen]

did the armenias have flaming arrows????

[@jaca42]

You should become right right now and remake this show like right now. Yes?

[@Anglomachian]

Oh, thank you.

[@thebestanthe3rd]

omg it pains me to watch this I WISH I WAS THERE!!!!

[@minesbanduk]

lol this has to be the worst victory ever. Did the generals even know what was going on?

[@user-uy1rg8td1v]

The show makes it too easy for the players. Most battles should end as a defeat so when a team gets a victory it would be so much more satisfying.

[@horuslupercal2385]

Complete fluke, owing largely to their huge numerical advantage.

[@gago195555]

Thank you

[@BloodiestMargie]

They had arrows... and they had fire.

[@swirlcrop]

Yes, you´re right.

[@peterxp4274]

1. that was Parthia, 2. it was 16 years AFTER this.

[@MonlithOfRome]

Using rtw 2 or 3 or 4 or 5?(depending on the year you become rich)

[@Tareltonlives]

Tigran was best buds with "Biochemical" Mithradates of Pontus. I'm sure they had flaming arrows.

[@HypnoticChronic1]

dude i really hope you do ill gladly on it work for you as 1 of the techs and i hope when you do remake it you get sum more intelligent guests then the ones they have had on here it would be a blessing and make the show a hell of alot better to watch.

[@MrAlex_Raven]

@BloodiestMargie Oh, fair enough.

[@rastaman9863]

they didnt use mace :(

[@Sev_Aram]

This battle simulation based on Appian history which is a simple roman propaganda. Tigran didn't have so much forces in that period near Tigranakert. Armenian army that time were fighting in Palestine. Armenians have 6000 cavalery near Tigranakert. Romans have 2 legions and 500 cavalery. So this battle is a great fake from Appian - roman historian.

[@CruelestChris]

Tigran Harutyunyan Yeah but let's face it, even in this ludicrous version of the battle they still made a heroic attempt to get their asses handed to them by the Romans.

[@Tareltonlives]

If they had used historical numbers rather than inflations for the Armenian army, they would have lost just like Tigranes himself.

[@acerspades8724]

Many civilizations knew about flaming arrows but never used them due to their lack of effectiveness in the regain.

[@CruelestChris]

acer spades Also because they didn't work and were stupid.

[@jaca42]

And they had bows :O.

[@adamcm2130]

And yet they won

[@joesdayable]

Even the introduction is bad tactics. Testudo against infantry, what a great idea

[@Mitjitsu]

@Afrikaanus The Romans may have been outnumbered 10 to 1, but they were up against a badly trained army with an even more incompetent king to lead them.

[@MrJosuag]

The team was so bad, I have to admit to rooting for the romans to win. The team did not deserve this win at all.

[@Tareltonlives]

Having three times as many soldiers as Tigran helps a lot.

[@Tareltonlives]

They're focusing too much on the ford. They have no hope of beating the Romans to the punch, and it would be better if they used that time to position their army on the plateau. They barely even try to stop the Romans, sending too few troops to effectively contest the crossing. They do better than Tigran because they send in their infantry first, and then attack with cavalry while they're occupied (by accident), and then sends in more infantry before the cavalry can collapse. So yeah, accident

[@alomajagroobassie3001]

Why the Heck did the Roman general send in his army piece by piece to be slaughtered?! I think they deliberately made this easier for the team.

[@DNesij]

but did they had flaming arrows?!?

[@piovertheta3]

please do. :))

[@napoleoncomplex2712]

Those archers caused an appreciable number of casualties to the Romans. Yes, they got butchered, but they did their job; hurting the Romans and softening them up.

[@MateusVIII]

That doesn't mean anything. Flaming arrows aren't as simple as that, plus it is very hard to fire one with precision. Otherwise every nation in the world would have had flaming arrows.

[@Jodonho]

They have to be the meekest winning generals in history. None of them could claim to be Patton's lovechild.

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

Patton is overrated really.

[@Anglomachian]

The vast majority of races who developed arrows did have access to flaming arrows. Or if they didn't, they quickly came into contact with another race that did, and then usually adapted it.

[@CruelestChris]

Anglomachian No they didn't.

[@DualShockKTM]

Some people just aren't born to be leaders.....and strategists....

[@Jtking3000]

cataracts -_-

[@nanoleopard201]

I love how you say 'race' rather than culture, people or civilization.

[@willinnewhaven3285]

Quoting Plutarch's made-up witticism as if it were really said at the time is silly.

[@25242824]

guys so blind his cataracts are blocking his cataphracts

[@jaca42]

Rich*

[@adamcm2130]

It's rome total war everyone who uses Bows has them :P

[@haykkirakosyan5057]

Well u guys were right rome won 2 battles but they lost the third one luculost lost his entire army in the armenia on third battle

[@artsakhisarmenia7728]

Tigran The Great

[@mantrafox]

This show is really frustrating to me, as I want those bad commander teams with terrible plans to lose. Haha.

[@BloodiestMargie]

I hope you're joking..

[@diagreen]

yes,they can't even keep the Olympic torch lit today.

[@papabumba478]

so was this battle even losable? they did horrifically, forgot half their army even existed and still won 😂

[@joshuasnow6430]

HAX

[@deadmeat1471]

Lol

[@Mokofooja]

Now that they're making Total War: Rome 2, they should think about bringing back Time Commanders, using the new engine. Even if it's just for some shameless self publicity, I know *I* would be amused, and would respect SEGA/The Creative Assembly a bit more in my own mind.

[@TwpsynMawr]

This comment has not aged well 🤣

[@Tareltonlives]

Simple; there weren't as many Armenians as there were in the show, and that the cataphracts were not supported by the infantry. Tigran knew his infantry were crap, so he decided not to use them.

[@kylelam7558]

hmm.. I like season 2 more than season 1.

[@S-Nova0]

I always thought it was cool that Armenia won in this episode, shame it didn't happen in real life (nothing against the Romans, just look at my username haha)!

[@johndizoglio3076]

lol

[@xanderkand]

This one was far too easy for them. They sucked hard and still won using only half their army. Why are the historians saying how class they were at the end? They were naff and everyone knows it. Chuckleheads.

[@dossdn]

Melancholy Rock perfectly describes the way these "generals" are commanding... awful

[@S-Nova0]

As the Romans or as the Armenians? haha

[@jimmsjomms158]

noobs dont even use javelins

[@Tareltonlives]

The reason they won is that they had twice as many troops as Tigran had

[@romelnegut2005]

They were clueless.

[@PBman987]

They use rome total war wtf

[@Ares-Z17]

total war virgins

[@28mindaugas]

this team is so hopeless its just sad to watch.

[@jimmsjomms158]

whys he sying 50,000 likes thats how much they have lol

[@88kar88]

Tigran's arrogance.

[@TheAerosid]

How boring is that team!

[@Sev_Aram]

Before that Armenia defeated Parthian Empire and dozen other kingdoms. The first war with Rome is after Armenia. Lucullus was defeated and run from Armenia. So this guys makeing a fake battle based on a fake history.

[@PBman987]

This show is so stupid i could win that battle in like 3 seconds

[@TwpsynMawr]

Yes by yourself on the computer yes.. most of us could on VH