TIME FOR ENGLAND TO DROP BORTHWICK? Have Your Vote!

[@TurtleFPL]

As an Irishman, I don't get why all English fans seem to hate Borthwick. England are clearly much better than they were a couple years ago. They'll be contenders in the 6 Nations for sure. Literally seconds away from some massive wins and a completely different narrative

[@stephenlouwbiokineticist4127]

From a SAFFA. Give him the six nations. I think England is heading in the right direction.

[@rob.1]

Very short memories on letting our coaches go early in their careers. Farrell, Lancaster, Catt etc have all proved themselves to be fantastic coaches.

[@Jay-Leigh863]

England are on the verge of becoming something special. To fire Borthwick at this point will put England rugby back. The players are there, the coaching is good but could be improved with another defense coach. It's really very small margins. Borthwick needs to be freed up to do his job.

[@tomjones1424]

Argentina can beat anyone, France can beat anyone, Ireland can beat anyone, NZ can beat anyone, SA can beat anyone....plus other teams on their day can beat any of these. Seriously, this is what we all should be wanting, exciting games where either side can win.

[@JasonBaris-y3x]

You have actually listed a load of positives and as a South African I disagree with you entirely. England are rebuilding for the next wc. Eng was right in the game all the way to last 10min and that’s against the clear best team in the world. I think you need to tone your judgement down and see how close England are to breaking through. Your analysis is too biased and emotional based. Eng scrum held its own. Attack speed was superb. Set piece was strong….i mean seriously they narrowly lost the world championship

[@Woooofit]

NO, Steve is OK! But the team have to think on their feet. They lost the game, they had chances to kick for goal and did not take it. I am a Springbok supporter, but I think I will give him another chance to work on the team.

[@tribbs2000]

I just feel the players, due to the rush defence, are getting knackered by the 50/60th minute. At the same time using rush defence every time, the opposing team know exactly what your next defensive play is! A bit of variation in defence has to be good surely ?

[@davidboyle1193]

100% go now

[@robday3968]

Rich, you've nailed it... it's the selection, and we have the same issue in Wales with Gatland. You're not a million miles away, and I think if you selected the players you mentioned, it could be a game changer. So for that reason, Borthwick has to go, because he won't change.

[@alf7524]

Pointless talking about firing Borthwick without a viable replacement.

[@charlespirate1]

Replace with who?

[@mikegalway4733]

The fact that Edwards works for France and the RFU extended Jones' contact after a semi-final win indicates to me where the fundamental issue is. Having said that how many of the current crop of players gets in the 2003 team/squad? We had 8+ players who were genuinely world class, how many now?

[@ianwardle7523]

He’s completely clueless! He is holding England back. He’s lost 2 world class coaches. His selection and subs are shocking! The guy is so far out of his depth!

[@rscaretraining3524]

Fine margins v NZ and Aus. We don’t have a golden generation of talent at the moment so give him until after the WC. IMHO

[@LMR041082]

Bigger question is if he did, who do you get to replace him? No point swinging an axe if there’s no one to bring in who you want.

[@kennyg-bestlifecycling]

Yes

[@chrsmcfrln]

Whether rugby, soccer or cricket, England can’t stop itself from sacrificing their coach if things aren’t going their way, and it’s rarely justified. International rugby is hugely competitive right now. England is there or thereabouts. Stick with Borthwick until the next World Cup and give him the flexibility to try different things and make mistakes in the meantime.

[@LMR041082]

Agree with that sentiment chap.

[@terryjonson8060]

Absolutely mate. Easy to blame the coach and while the buck stops with him the players too , need to step up. This coming from a Saffa.

[@thehum1000]

Indeed, woodward took years to win a world cup, he had many faliures in his time ad coach.

[@ColinAnderson-hy2oj]

And keep social media away from him

[@pzee9732]

England aren’t playing bad it’s clear to see that we are in contention in our games but it’s a results based business and we’ve become serial losers every time we face up against a tough opponent

[@convenienceanglingsupplies4987]

Guys, wake up- your player pool isn't good enough.

[@jonathanhurd1565]

I think for now we stick with Borthwick. There is a problem with player talent that should hopefully get solved in the next year or so - if Fasogbon and AOF have a break through season that would be great for the props. Getting Mitchell and Chessum back from injury would be a big help. It might be worth doing a raid on the NRL to get some classy centres though. Herbie Farnworth looks like an amazing player. I can't quite believe that Lennox Anyanwu is off to France just when he is coming good though. We definitely need more attacking threat in the mid field.

[@06alepea1]

I think Borthwick should at least be given the 6N.

[@jayduplessis7698]

I'm sure all England supporters will say yes - because that is what they ALWAYS want... for their coaches, politicians, or frankly anyone in a leadership position. And then the cycle continues. Until their good options run out, and they sit with the low quality they have now in the House of Commons - while nobody good wants that job anymore - and the very few options to be England coach... another poisoned chalice, avoided by the best coaches. But I don't hear other, objective people saying Borthwick should go. And I don't think so either. Give him more time - they are not far off. And besides, who will Borthwick's replacement be? And, more importantly, will a lettuce last longer than the new coach? My bets would be on the lettuce. I also find it funny how the English criticism is always focussed on the coach, like he is some kind of wizard in total control of his players (who are all innocents in the whole saga). The attitude of the English players are arguably their biggest weakness... Because even when they have a world class coach who demands high standards, like Eddie Jones, who actually turns then into a winning team, the players turn on him! And the same with Felix Jones... And even if they got Rassie Erasmus, or even Jake White, the players would probably turn on them too.

[@LMR041082]

Hear me out on this one. Will Stuart, he’s starting to come good. Appears to be more consistent and improving consistently which is laudable. Sure people may say but we need to change, but you create the same issue, but potentially more acutely. We need consistency there and if he keeps this steady improvement, and plays I the 6 nations, he could be really solid and impressive. I do think the A game today will be interesting as a conveyor belt of talent and who’s ready to come up.

[@benhayward3918]

Yes! We do have the talent for 60mins we need a coach that can extend that to the full 80! But only drop him if we have a world class option to come in. No point flip flopping with sub par coaches

[@justinnell1957]

No - 5 in a row vs ABs, Australia and SA. All close and only team below them in the rankings were Oz.

[@Gilescowdemdem]

Personally, i dont think SB is the issue, it's the team around him. Wiggles - first coaching job, world class at nothing. Defence coach - came from 2nd division and his aide was almost bottom on every defenisve stat. Lost felix, lost s&d coach. If you have one guy who's data driven you need to balance that with someone who can ignite emotional fires in these guys.

[@adamclarke7029]

No. Firstly their isn't a better option readily available. Secondly there is something building there. He's had a fucking tough schedule and we have run every game close. The only loss which we really should have been expecting to win was the Aussie one. Are things perfect no of course there not but we're really not that far off. Section is something an England coach can never get right. Always massive complaints whenever there's a squad announcement. For every player over looked there's a Baxter, IFW, Sleightholme, Freeman, Furbank, Mitchell, CCs that he's brought through. The six nations will be defining for him.

[@robinchanguion5400]

Picking his best man at his wedding as his defence coachshows a lack of professionalism in the international era.

[@nicholaswood3063]

JVP made about 6 or 7 bad passes in that game that set the backline backwards at moments when attack was on. He isn't a test 9

[@andrewkeppler1000]

England hold themselves back with their banning of the talent pool that plays in France .The RFU would be better making these players available.

[@willk1756]

Our bench was a strength of ours a few seasons ago. Now its eyewateringly poor: Cole, Isiekwe, Dombrandt, Ford et al Those are woeful picks for a bench.

[@Drew32511]

My concerns started when we replaced one of the most respected defence coaches with one of borthwicks mates who coached a div 2 french side. I think borthwick is a great club coach and could do well with any premiership team but I don't think he is quite there for England. I don't know who would be up for the job but I would like to see Sam Vesty, Shaun Edwards, Mark McCall maybe even Mark Maplecroft from the under 20s.

[@doraldeddy1836]

Imo rugby is an instinct game. Heads up, play what’s in front of you. To help that you need ONE captain, to lead the team. Not all this Co-captain/senior leaders group etc. stuff. Then to answer the coach question : when the current captain says “we didn’t follow the plan” etc, that says to me the “plan” wasn’t bought into by the players completely. Which is why we need one strong captain? As far as the coaching team goes, there has been disruption enough, plus a very visible lack of bringing on key players eg. Depth at scrum half, fly half, centre, tight head etc. Which a well funded A team could’ve helped with?

[@Daniboi971]

The selections are baffling. Like Spencer being dropped for a “kicking” SH even thought Spencer is just better at everything. Stuff like that is crazy

[@jonchapman999]

No. He is in a muddle and this seems largely down to the coaching problems, which he needs to put right. It isn't clear why these problems have come about, and to what extent SB is accountable. Give him the 6N to sort it. The talent is there in the team, although he does need to start blooding more fresh talent, as he did this year with Feyi-Waboso and Furbank. I think he needs to try Tom Willis and Hill, and I would hope that the policy which excludes Jack Willis and Marchant is reversed (the 'boks had six players based outside SA yesterday). That focuses us on the other possible cause of the problem, the ongoing rather arthritic administration by the RFU. What role have the RFU played in demotivating and deterring good coaches? Knee-jerk reactions based on short-term disappointment seldom works. And as you say, who else is out there right now who has the track record to do better? And who would want the job in such circumstances?

[@glennaston2412]

Reliance on one out runners killed our attack. We became very predictable and failed to challenge any defence.

[@RobertChapman-k5d]

Yes and Bill Sweeney should go too

[@JonClark-nb9sn]

Defence missed tackles one charged down led to 3 south africa trys. Players not good enough , dont blame the coach. England are missing some great players from recent years

[@marktaylor2249]

You cant be a world class coach with average players , only Marcus Smith is close to being world class

[@alternativebassist]

He had to take on a team less than a year out from a World Cup and got them to 1 point away from a final. The team’s still transitioning with a number of key players unavailable. The “losing streak” is 3 very narrow losses against the All Blacks, a last gasp loss to Australia and a loss to the literal best team in the world. That’s about the hardest streak of games you could ask for. Sure you can insist he’s somehow not getting the team playing good rugby (I’d disagree) or whatever you like but you judge a coach by the metrics above and you’ll never find one worthy.

[@barrysheridan9186]

Kicking someone when they are down is not what I like to do, but SB appears too reluctant to let go of players who are not performing. The modern game needs power and pace, some of our players are too slow and lacking in power. Very disappointed England fan.

[@ryanhannah1643]

I don't think anyone can reasonably blame borthwick for the performances on the pitch. We had every opportunity to win, especially after the card and warning for a second. But we bottled 4 trips into the 22. That's about the player's decision making under the nerves and pressure. He does need to fix his selection choices, but in the long term players like JVP have now faced the best team on earth and could settle into it.

[@keith1704]

NO, he should stay

[@Battosai84]

I think SB is completely out of his depth when it comes to international rugby. He knows and does some basics v well, which is fine for an assistant, but not a HC or DoR. He's been found out time and time again, whether it's player identification, selection, player contracts, coaching team etc...he's like an amateur. I'd say give him the 6N, then it's time to say goodbye. It's clear he's not up for it, the team still has zero identity and style, and when it looks like they are developing one, they revert to type. So, it shows he does not know what he's doing, and cannot even stick to his own principles and philosophy (if he even has one). Mentality is a BIG problem as well, he's making England have a small team mentality, which is a bigggg mistake! "They're all against us, they want us to lose blah blah small man talk". You'll never get anywhere if you have that kind of mentality...it only works if you are actually a small team punching above your weight (England are not that). Time to go, and get in a proper Manager, not someone with a small mentality and approach. No wonder Aled and Felix left.

[@gregchillgym]

4/5 of the last games have been against the best ever 2 sides. Maybe New Zealand wasn’t at their best but it’s still New Zealand! No one saw the Australia game coming they just played a blinder. We’ve been very close, there are issues sure but let’s see how the 6 nations go. They are improving in areas. It’s very hard to improve in all areas at once

[@ianwardle7523]

Pull the plug!!! The team could coach themselves better! It’s not difficult. Get selection right. We have tonne of young talent!. Implement attacking and defensive systems that challenge opposition. Be consistent! Listen to his interviews! That’s what you get. Empty vessel I’m sorry!

[@andrewpiearcey3440]

Iwould just replace the senior coaching set-up with the U20s set-up. Thye get the youngsters playing at pace and with continuity/off-loading in attack. They get their selection right and only reallu have a 2-3 year window to develop players before they fall into the RFU black-hole. I would probably get Rowntree in (now available) for scrum coaching. I think the new set up would keep a few of the current crop bit we could rest properly and get a 3 year build to the WC. Probably too late for the 6N thsi year but it would be worth the sacrifice.

[@terencemacsweeney3667]

England should stick with Borthwick for now but he is in the crosshairs. Given the upheaval caused by Eddie Jones my thoughts are Borthwick was rushed into the position despite everybody knowing his conservative style. Todays game is fluid and dynamic and unless the conditions are poor a conservative style of play will loose any contest, ... but the RFU know this and were well aware when Borthwick was appointed. I never heard why he lost two modern coaches but change is needed if England are to win. So, the question for me is can/will Borthwick learn? When England played Ireland and won this year I saw a dynamic style of play, but where is it gone?

[@mattjones3361]

Never wanted him, still don't. However we have to make sure we have the right guy to come in. Felix jones leaving was huge. But ultimately it's Borthwicks selections which should get him booted! One of the great things about being international coach is the pool of players, especially in England. You have to give players that are bang in form game time! Can we honestly say borewicks selections have been the prems best in class? I wouldn't! Some of the omissions have been nothing short of criminal.

[@jonnybaynham1689]

The trouble with England is even if you get rid if Borthwick the RFU have a bad history of coach selection. Post Woodward we had Robinson, Ashton (2x assistant coaches), Martin Johnson (who never coached before), Lancaster (a new head coach with inexperienced head coaches in Farrell and Catt), Eddie Jones (off the back of him fixing Japan up, probably the best of the bunch but with a well established history of lasting 1x world cup cycle) then SB The RFU do not go after big coaches. With the FA forking out for Tuchel, and considering the RFU try to copy the FA, i wonder if they finally consider forking out or if this job really is a poisoned chalice

[@AnthonySteinghart]

I’d say those in charge should go, they’ve been more inept. The issues are higher up that Borthwick - the “Boys Club” calling the shots. As a Saffa, you’ve got to give him time. Bringing in new coaches does NOT work.

[@murraysmith595]

England and NZ seem similar at the moment. Promising in periods of games but frustrating in others. If you are going to cut Borthwick the time is now. Just look at Australia's worldcup if you move to slow.

[@panelectric8460]

The evidence speaks for itself but I agree the timing is vital , wait till around 5 pm maybe .

[@Revellien]

Look at the bench he selected - to say they are game changers is laughable. Hill, Pepper, Willis for starters. Steward is not a test 15 and Slade is picked regardless of no obvious output. The coach at Bath looks like he could be a really good alternative.

[@jawhitby345]

As someone who has thought he was not the right man for the job right from the off, and have been extremely disappointed with every game we have played, expect the Ireland game, I say give him the 6 nations. If we lose matches in the same fashion as we have in the last 5 losses, then he has to go as we are clearly not learning anything or making adjustments.

[@markellison2596]

Bok here. Answer is NO - sack him and you'll be going through the same situation this time next year

[@jmurphy9657]

The seeming obliviousness of the English media when it comes to the similarities between EJ and SB, yet EJ at least brought an international pedigree and winning formula. The RFU will also never admit their abject failure around the handling of EJs departure (imo he should've seen out his contract as the upcoming WC would've been a push to win either way) and subsequent paying through the nose for SB and his mediocre crew of coaches. Yes we got to a semi but we're almost guaranteed it and the influence of EJ and the few high calibre coaches (Felix Jones etc Al) is starting to wane and what is left is solely the influence of SB...and it shows. EJ was derided for not showing enough "respect" to the games in intervening period between WCs (he rightly focussed in the big one) yet we are told now that this happens during the cycle and that there is still time before a WC and that SB can come good...seems a bit of a double standard if you ask me.

[@samwhitmore123]

As a Welsh fan, both him and Gatland are simply not coaches of the ‘modern game’, both are not top level international coaches in the context of the current state of the game. Both should go

[@KBJ58]

He has to go. Utterly clueless.

[@Tommyboy15081979]

Ireland to end of summer tour was promising. AIs have been a massive regression. Changes to coaching team between the two-Jones and Walters have gone. We've conceded 12 tries in three games, and this suggests to me based on the changes that either the new defence coach isn't up to it, we aren't fit enough to continue with the blitz without Walters, or both. If we've lost Jones so Wigglesworth can coach the attack, then Borthwick should be arrested, let alone sacked.

[@jimff5]

Of course he should go, and his successor must go, and his successor BTW I'm Irish do'es my vote still count?

[@russellcroghan8956]

Yes, he's got to go 😊

[@s.j.a486]

Any coach who picks favourites over form players is a red flag for me,unfortunately I do think this trend will continue with SB.

[@JonClark-nb9sn]

England should have won against aussies & NZ. some of those missed tackles last line of defence v S. Africa were half rrrr'sd & led to easy trys . Coach deserves time

[@doazo8062]

not to defend borthwick but he has to be able to pick our best players, before that happens we will never be as competitive as can be

[@tompicken490]

Give him the 6 nations. Also who do you replace him with? Would just hurt England more having to go through a honeymoon phase this close to the next tournament.

[@VincentOram]

😂 England can't match SA athlete for athlete. Stop blaming the coach! Start reaching into non posh boy schools and develop depth from there up like SA does

[@BrandonWain9]

I think you have to just look at the stats that they showed before the match of the stats from Joe El-Abd’s Oyonnax team this season in defence. It’s shameful that he is the level of coaching we have been able to attract at England rugby.

[@oldguy8177able]

hes nearly there

[@marksmith4518]

We are still looking way better than the latter years of EJ. I think we are going to get there, just need some patience. No coach is going to offer us a quick fix

[@jonbrook4009]

He should never have been appointed. The second I heard of his appointment I predicted the outcome. When your national coach is boring, pedestrian, conservative, delusional and unable to acknowledge dire mistakes such as substitutions, defence plans, etc etc, there is no way the team can move forward. He was a blue-sky spouting, Pollyana captain of England and he hasn't changed as coach. When amateur followers of the game can see clearly Marcus Smith is having a good game and should stay on only to be replaced with Ford because of some pre-planned ritual Borewick decided on the night before it makes you wonder how the hell he is in that position. Normally, I wouldn't give this issue too much energy but this single appointment of SB as head coach absolutely riled me. It was so obviously the wrong choice.

[@Smithy-i8y]

I don’t think he will go. I think he should, but I’m prepared to let him make a mess of the 6 nations, as he will, and then as you said we can spend all summer making the correct appointment. I think overall he’s been rubbish and lives off a rain soaked night in Paris and a last minute win against Ireland. Poor appointment and we should have thought about it more when Jones went!!

[@A-world-of-My-Own]

Sack the coach(es) Is not the complete answer. A complete English Rugby restructuring is required.To develop new talent, keep it and develop it. Get the clubs on board, before more go bust.The RFU needs to develop a plan for the next world cup, or the one after. None of this is likely to happen anytime soon. Yet More stop gaps, coaches, overseas players etc, etc.

[@amandascattergood5939]

Can’t always blame the coach, it’s up to the players to up their game whilst on the pitch , great players but lose in the last 15 minutes, up to senior players to lead from the front and stop making stupid mistakes

[@kevinhall9109]

Speaking as a lifelong England rugby fan who finds he has lost interest in watching the national team, I would say it's time for a change.

[@JamesFound]

No - there's no one to bring in (and so would cause another rushed recruitment) and he should have the 6 nations at least before an assessment is made

[@icarus877]

I have to be honest I had absolutely no faith in the man right from the start. He is clearly way way way out of his depth, He should be dismissed with immediate effect.

[@rorymkirk]

I think Borthwick has to go, but yeh being reasonable he’ll have to remain through the 6N. The key issues are highlighted well here. He can’t keep his back room together, can’t select, and can’t coach an effective and deliverable playing style. The “nearly a good team” line has worth very thin after nearly two years, especially as we seem to have gone backwards. Aside from Underhill and Sleightholme, enforced changes, his new selection decisions were badly exposed yesterday. JVP frankly had a mare, and I don’t think a couple of bombs retrievals makes up for Steward’s deficiencies. The midfield combo isn’t working, with Lawrence especially not doing the job intended. The pack are decent but painfully one dimensional in their attacking role. We may as well not have a bench for all this selection contributes. Time for a substantial changes.

[@Uwe-gb6nt]

Franco Smith for England Coach.

[@RobbieTaylor-f8q]

Stick with the coaching team but cut the dead wood out starting with Japan. 6 Nations results should decide coaching teams future.

[@E171955]

Too many players who are simply either not good enough or past it combined with injuries and players excluded like Jack Willis and Arundell. Coaching team seems lacklustre and out of their depth. A difficult period for England ahead .

[@WilliamBuckingham-s6f]

yes

[@soundscapemusic8980]

I think best to give him the six nations. And make a decision from there

[@lukedudley5030]

I dont think it matters who is the head coach of england...they all seem to have their hands tied by the english rfu who dictate to them too much...this is apparent when you consider all the coaches that have left english coaching to prove their merit in other clubs and countries.

[@kevans8626]

Where is the long-term planning. I see former Irish players in key roles across international and club rugby learning their trade. Presumably the IRFU will in time bring together some combination of ROG, POC, Jones, Flannery etc.... What's the RFU plan? Poor planning has led to having no options. Probably going to have to get another experienced overseas coach like Eddie because the cupboard is bare. Maybe this time they will succession plan????

[@liamjohn7327]

While I am not sure Borthwick is the man for the job. I do have sympathy.. all 3 games this autumn have been lost by individual errors, even with the defence being shocking which I do feel they need a better defence coach. They could have won all 3 with the initial tactics Borthwick wanted to play. Sometimes the players need to take the flack, yesterday the perfect example of this with one crazy try from two charge downs, JVP being charged TWICE consecutively, slipping off a 2 on one tackle in the middle of the park, stupid breakdown penalties, dummy throwing at the line out.. all of that stuff is individual errors, not systematic ones. I do think the defence should be a hybrid of a blitz vs spread in different areas of the pitch, that is a problem, but even with that we should have won all 3 games. I don’t think we should sack him yet, but if the 6 nations isn’t a 3/4 out of 5 then 100% he goes because he clearly isn’t learning the lessons needed at that level. And by 3/4 out of 5 I mean we can ONLY loose to France or Ireland.. all the others should be comfortable wins, along with narrow losses.

[@etienneshawe1727]

No not at all. Give him some time. It's not like Eng is playing shit, they fell short 3 times by small margins, but generally I thought they played quite well, give him time till after the 6 nations

[@davidwalker2402]

If England wait until after 6 nations it will be too late , but this will happen. There is enough talent in England .

[@videoaddict961]

Saying England don’t have the talent is just silly, we came within 3 points of beating NZ and let SA into that game with two shocker moments in defence. Really not a player pool issue. That being said just give Borthwick the six nations, why not? Who else better is available?

[@DavidShort-q1d]

Personally i dont think it's time to get rid of S.Bothwick He does however need to get rid of some of the old guard and blood alot of the good young talent coming through He also needs to sort out Englands defensive mistakes Which is the major weakness England are suffering with now. In attack England are hit and miss currently England ned to start offloading at pace and STOP KICKING SO MUCH The set piece is also not good enough currently Bothwick needs to getthe maul going from the lineout [Bothwick's strength appartently] While the scrum has improved it needs the young blood to be integrated asap

[@ollynen]

Blame the coach is always the easiest cop out. Nearly always covers up confronting the real systematic problems. There are no obviously better players and the players all talk positively about the coaching and environment. He needs at least 2 more years for the u20 team to start coming through

[@terryjonson8060]

Wow, so many haters. England are on the right track. I'm sure they'll surprise everyone in the 6N. Ire on the other hand I'm not so sure. Just an arm chair critics thoughts. 😂

[@xaviermurray7698]

I never knew how coaches are to be blamed if players can't execute the plan. Those bench players are weak end of. Find better players your XV can't play for 80mins

[@jb4932]

I’m a Tigers supporter and old enough to remember when Borthwick was England captain. He was the worse captain ever - not based on results but on the absolute patronising drivel that he came out with at post match interviews. Despite his success at Leicester he was the same with local media. There is no way that this man is suited to being the face of a major organisation like England rugby. He reminds me of a politician- and the worse kind - he is the Keir Starmer of rugby. Bland boring and dishonest. Sack him now because we will after the 6 Nations. God help us when we beat Japan and he spins that as some sort of achievement.

[@timandafish]

Nope. Things will not improve by changing your horse halfway through the race. Borthwick is building and Eng need to be patient. Things are almost there. I say two to three more games and England will be a force to be reckoned with. They are right on the cusp of greatness. But yeah. Need to have patience during these growing pains. And there needs to be room for trial error and experimentation. If Eng don’t have the patience for that, then no one will be able to do it. There is no magic bullet. Only hard work and time.

[@thehum1000]

I differ, he should be judged on the six nations, woodward took years to ein a world cup, he needs the same amount of time.

[@Chris-yj1zg]

He seems to be out of his depth. He took what seemed a backwards step against SA, back to the team and tactics that didn’t work a year ago. The bench is weak, the rush defense has us blowing by 60 mins. We just seem so one dimensional. This 6N could well start with 2 defeats and then where do we go from there…

[@colinchisholm300]

Please keep Borthwick, Genge, Otoje, Slade and Steward until you play Scotland. If England are ever as good as your media hype you to be you'll beat everyone?

[@Bill-bn2ew]

Borthwick doesn't have the experience either in himself or in his wider group to recognize when his favourites need to go and live on a farm. He's made Slade, Ford and Genge "vice captains" whatever that means, and those three players have had awful series or years. Slade has made countless misreads and hospital passes, Genge is not an international loose head, Ford was miles off the pace whenever he played. That's not through lack of effort or heart but Genge is giving away 20kg+ plus to standard internation tightheads. At the very least they have to drop this stupid rush d, get a more experienced scrum coach and some better younger props and give opportunities to younger backs. All the noise has been about improvements and positives from losses, you would NEVER hear that from a saffer or Kiwi captain or coach after bad losses.

[@brianseage5452]

No! Let him have a full 6 nations to see if he can win against Ireland and France. If he cannot win then he goes.

[@Sean22ei]

The problem is that his subs have cost England games.