Time is Running Out For Star Citizen 4.0 in 2024 (Ft. TenPoundFortyTwo) | Launch Sequence Podcast

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Thanks for having me!

[@AdityaWaghmare]

Love your work!

[@Blackburn6969]

Looking forward to CitCon, hopefully will bump into you there! I'll be tagging along with Hybrid V

[@FuriousImp]

Great discussion! Thank *you* for your lovely contribution.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

​@@AdityaWaghmare Thanks!

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

​@@Blackburn6969yeah please say hi if you see me!

[@kishkin8743]

I'm just curious about where are the gameplay features that are needed to get the game from industry standard tech demo/pre alpha to alpha (95% of the planned gameplay features at tier 0 or better)? Data running seems like the easist to get to tier 0 with no tech debt, but they don't touch it. I'd take 100 people servers playing an actual integrated set of gameplay features vs 1000 people standing around looking at how pretty everything is waiting for everything to come together.

[@moontreecollective6718]

I will never understand how this isn’t basic common sense. Give us a game first, then scale. It’s the same for any product - build a Minimally Viable Product, then expand

[@DamonCzanik]

This didn't age well. 4.0 is in Evocati right now. 😆 2,000 player server mesh done last week. Star Citizen 1.0 release discussed at CitizenCon next week.

[@avrok]

Saw this in my recommended and came to say the same 😅

[@stevengoldman4235]

How is s42 feature complete if they don't have a flight model?

[@rhetor4mentor13]

far fewer ships to balance, no need to have the exact same performance profiles in a solo game vs a multiplayer one.

[@crypt_hound]

Maybe feature complete doesn't mean what we think it means.

[@stevengoldman4235]

@rhetor4mentor13 it's not the actual flight model itself that I'm talking about. But everything that would be dependant on it. Like weapons, shields, the whole combat system, travel, level design. Just seems like there would be some big dependencies on a flight model for a space game.

[@rhetor4mentor13]

@@stevengoldman4235 that's also what I meant. Unless physicalised armor and maelstrom and engineering are suddenly a requirement for Sq42 because CR decided so, then they have had a functioning MM system for a long time now in Sq42, with the ability to balance parameters of the whole flight model to make it fun for a single player campaign game.

[@rooster1012]

@@stevengoldman4235 Changing the flight profile slightly doesn't make a huge difference as they are minor tweaks and keep in mind SQ42 flight model is balanced for a single player game not the MMO with pvp ships like the Gladius may fly completely different in the 2 games.

[@l3lackoutsMedia]

From the perspective of a software dev trying to predict the size of a task really does not work very well. The prediction is based on some virtual happy path, that usually never materializes so the usual recommendation is to triple your estimate and even that just does not take the core unpredictability into account. The thing you want to do could also just turn out to be impossible.

[@beny9360]

😁. From the perspective of a DevOps guy having just spent 4 days trying to get hold of someone with permissions on the non-prod vault server to create secrets while now fighting spinnaker to try and get the pipeline to onboard a new micro service I’m amazed they get as much done as they do. IT in the cloud is a complex beast. I know they’re running VMs and meshing servers, but I wonder what DevOps & CI/CD pipelines they’re running for automation etc, & what of things like the replication layer etc are maybe containerised, or managed services etc.

[@anthonystrickland7049]

From the perspective of a developer, a network application is going to flounder if it doesn't have its network framework set up before everything else is designed.

[@beny9360]

@@anthonystrickland7049 Yep, which is def what we’re seeing. It’s all getting built together. Quite a task. Their sprint planning must be fun!

[@CitizenScott]

From the perspective of a backer, 12 years.

[@AccidentalFriendlyFire]

I was talking with my org Saturday and they helped me remember to check where my Citizen number is. Then the subject changed to discussing what everyone was doing in the game when they backed, and I had to check, and yeah, back when I first put money into SC we couldn't even look at our ships. The Hangar Module released over a month later. But I followed from the beginning, and backed for SQ42 originally with passing interest in the PU, which has now become my primary gaming interest by this point. I was never one of the "CR is my Lord and Savior!" cultists, but I've also never lost my enthusiasm for the project.

[@Tainted-Soul]

When people ask about spec for running SC in game I always point them to Tenpoundfortytwo :) Ship reviews LOL As for hoping 9800x3d will be better up lift from the 7800x3d I dont think so going from Hardware unbox reviews on 7700x and the 9700x

[@Anonnymouse53]

I still want the full fat vision of Star Citizen. But every year people become more aware of just how much tech debt they took on when the scope ballooned & the longer it goes on the more frustrating it is, despite measurable progress being made. In an ideal world, the tech underpinning this project would be proven before anyone puts pen to paper to design an actual game, but it doesn't exist elsewhere so backers of this project have to endure. CIG are damned if they do, damned if they don't - the only thing they can do is try and control the narrative with their communication. Bottom line is that it requires a silly amount of time and money, they have no competition.

[@rhetor4mentor13]

not dissimilar to large-scale engineering projects that are heavily based on R&D. Massive delays, overspending, and key learnings to produce the next attempts much faster.

[@Apav1x]

Thank you, I've tried explaining this to my friends who don't get why I've been waiting so long for this game, and they still don't get it!

[@Noflex77]

Well since the beginning of the project I never saw something being hate for such a long time without slowing down like the master mode

[@Diogenes76]

And yet technically it is a big nothing sandwich. All the values can be tweaked and changed almost at a whim now that the system is in. It shows how people can't focus on the right things and get distracted by new ships and flight model issues when they have dropped the ball so hard on servers.

[@theg0z0n]

Real Talk Tomato - This was one of the best Star Citizen discussion videos I've ever watched. I can't thank you enough for your thoughts and comments, and having 10p42 on.

[@brewskiproductionslasvegas]

We as a people push boundaries and want to explore, trying to achieve the impossible. What CIG is doing is truly massive and seems impossible, and we as backers imagine the impossible and can't help but let our imagination run wild. But just like it was thought impossible to go to the moon and back, it was ultimately done, and then done multiple times, and are now looking beyond that. I started 5 years ago and I see the potential of this game. I want to see if they can land on the moon. I want to help them achieve the seemingly impossible. They are in a pressure cooker, and hopefully they don't give into that pressure. If they can't make it to the moon, someone else will, and then push past the moon to the next goal. I dont want to give up hope. I want to believe.

[@sidewithwerewolves]

Star citizen's major play difference from most games is their multicrew [a multiplayer game in its own right] combined with potentially intese forst person gaming wrapped up in general mmo player counts. SC also has what makes foxhole unique, the need and ways players have to cooperate. Things you build and do remaining for other players to discover and use or steal with faction loyalty. The player orgs are gonna be under the overarching npc faction war umbrella.

[@vorpalrobot]

Once that gets going it's gonna be crazy. If SpaceTomato makes a new video about finding new armor panels at ARC L4 and an optimized loadout, I can then fly out there and set up a shop to repair salvagers or various salvaging supplies. Of course pirates will know that area too, and so will bounty hunters.

[@JJS563]

Even if it somehow does come out this year, which I think it won't, its going to be worse than any of the previous patches we have seen to date...

[@durtyred86]

What's the point of testing if you cannot test.....?? Would you jump with a parachute that hasn't been approved? Or snorkel with gear that hasn't gone through the ringer?? What are you even getting at here? It's literally supposed to be a struggle today, so it won't be tomorrow. And in case that last part went over your head, they're supposed to have bugs in the current builds so that the final release is clean whenever SC goes live. I'll never understand you guys wanting absolute perfection in a slaughterhouse. Makes 0 sense.

[@JJS563]

@@durtyred86 ok

[@ny2nmpodcast965]

It will come this year. It will be a Christmas “poop” where they drop it as a mess and go on the break. 😂. And I’m actually….. ok with that. I need cig to hit there deadlines. It help with confidence in the product and company. At this point I’m invested in the company lol

[@ny2nmpodcast965]

This tomato was depressing, thank you for the honesty though sad face

[@Writkin]

The game is unplayable long term without fixing the server issues. There is no star citizen without server meshing working unfortunately

[@NicholasRyan0723]

To me, Starcitizen shouldn't exist without servermeshing. Because there are already several games in this genre that fill that void. Starcitizen is the project to change the gaming landscape going forward. I hope they achieve that goal.

[@younboyce7068]

Bring back 30 k

[@nuanil]

It's because Server Meshing enables dynamic seemless zoning, to reduce server loads to help maintain reasonable performance. It's the difference between Everquest and Ascheron's Call, but the zones are defined by load/performance rather than arbitrary walls. That includes assigning 100 servers to New Babbage if needed to keep the game fluid. And I imagine it's a blend of partitioning the areas into separate zones, and dynamically sizing up the clusters to bring more raw horsepower to individual zones themselves.

[@fiesbert5677]

Thats awesome! That is why Blizzard added it to Wotlk in the year 2007 and called it zoning

[@stevehoover6073]

Yea, slowing down speeds is going to take skill out of the equation making combat focus more on who's got the better guns. As slowing down speeds will limit defensive and offensive maneuvers resulting in nothing more than pointing and shooting at each other until someone's ship is destoryed/disabled.

[@kishkin8743]

The game needs combat to not be a focus for 2 years or so, so the game can progress to alpha. Combat is nearly feature complete and changes won't get the game any closer to industry standard alpha status.

[@Avean]

Where is this coming from? Heard many others as well talking about MM beeing slowed down. Is it the Evocati patch? That would be a disaster if thats the case. I thought they would slowly up the speeds not opposite :o

[@jakejewkes6688]

@@Aveanit’s coming from the latest evocatti patch notes

[@CarlotheNord]

Disagree. You can just slow down ship rotation and widen the maneuverability gap between ships to compensate. Larger ships now handle slower and rely on turrets while smaller ships still easily fly around.

[@nuanil]

In a lot of ways it only amplifies the skill difference.

[@romanwiller2180]

I think with the use of the 4.0 code base in 3.24.2 CIG is at least preparing for a 4.0 release close to Christmas. I don’t know if that is a target date or a worst-case scenario, but by getting the glaring bugs and glitches identified and fixed before release there will *hopefully* be a good launch for 4.0 and an enjoyable experience on launch instead of the typical “nothing works”. It just looks like they are setting up to have a launch that will be enjoyable right before they go on holiday. I’m sure they are also hedging their bets to make sure the launch is as smooth as possible, but I think the side effect there is that they are trying to make it so that they don’t need to immediately do a month of hotfixes.

[@iamthesentinel584]

Upvote for tenpoundfortytwo, I love his technical deep dives.

[@shaddouida3447]

Squadron 42 (2024) Update Synopsis Take the role of a rookie UEE Navy combat pilot in a cinematic single-player adventure set in the Star Citizen universe.

[@memorycl]

Static server meshing will be rough even with the bugs fixed and algorithms optimized. We'll end up with situations of too many players trying to get into one geographic area and that particular server will crash. Sever meshing will only become a fantastic feature after it is fully dynamic.

[@essentialasa]

1:16:55 While I occasionally play other games, SC is the only 100+ hr game I have besides Skyrim. I play lots of games but I also get bored quickly. I have been dying for a game like this. I hope that SC causes more games to be as detailed in the future.

[@josephhighfill4371]

A reality check is people who wants this "tech preview" of a game released before it is ready are the same people who will walk away from what they wanted calling it boring or broken.

[@CosmicD]

i predict 4.0 will be delayed until spring next year, because they'll have to do a lot of tech preview tests to get the server meshing, zone transfers and quantum jumping in working order, plus up the player count a bit, and you know what ? I can't see how they will not have to also do the dynamic upscaling for certain zones , as many players will sometimes converge in one area. I think they'll realize to a point that they'll have to work on that as well. It's that, or leave the shard's madx player count the same as the maximum amount of players that ONE DGS can handle. If they can double it, that's fine. But if they can't , and servers prove to be too unreliable with more than 300 players, they'll first have to work on that dynamic scaling until they increase the player count per shard.

[@PaulMEdwards]

They're going to try for 2,000 players in a shard on Tuesday (later today).

[@CosmicD]

@@PaulMEdwards As fcar as I can see the limit will be 1100 , but still it'll be that number "per shard". And each shard will hold a number of zone servers. It's going to be interesting to see what happens should more than 100 players organize in one area, like Morph demonstrated in the last video about this. If they can do it without massive side effects like janky AI, or massive interactive delays, then they can get on their way. But still this is tech preview. It took more than half a year to get replication layer and server recovery to work reliably on the ptu/live environment. I think they'll start testing this in these environment at the end of this year. We might have it in testing by new year. But 4.0 might take a long time to cook before it's life. After all they'll have to implement this into a new codebase. But I made this prediction before knowing that 3.24.2 was actually made in the 4.0 codebase already. So if the most updated version of server meshing that we are going to test today is implemented in this test, it could go faster. The reason why i'm thinking 4.0 won't go live this year is becuase if they want to implement the server meshing system, they also have to let it jive with the new refactors they'll put in, like the mission system.

[@grast5150]

Before watch No. What was a bad idea is Planetary Tech which changed the game from an instance-based Client to Server matching solution into massive hierarchal object streaming replicating solution. If Planet tech had not been worked implemented, SC would be out of alpha by now. Why? because landing zones, space, and conflict areas would be instance based and not require the massive effort of 64 bit location, object streaming, and replication. It would be arena commander with hidden loading zones to travel.

[@_larkin_321]

Two of my very few favourite content creators on SC ... that's gonna be good :D

[@saleseng]

Everybody knows that the mystique and allure of star citizen is the ships and the level of detail within Stanton. The thought of that being replicated across multiple systems in a 24 hour online persistent universe is really exciting. However, when you look at the current progress and all the problems just to get Pyro, in order for the project to truly soar, it has got to have those hundred systems, with all the alien and other interesting lore and civilizations. There simply isn’t enough computing power to put that together and have it run smooth in anybody’s gaming lifetime that is currently a backer.

[@robwilson509]

I think that the testing needed for 4.0 is what they are doing right now. Pyro is done, its been done. We played it a year ago. The server meshing is what is attached to it, and they are doing that with us all now. So I dont think its going to need a month in Evocoti, and they may release it live as in reality, its just the jump point in between the 2 and server meshing that needs to be worked out in order to release it. They also just said that they are now considering that if the tests show that 500 players is working well, they can release it with that player cap for now and expand later, which I think is the most realistic thing that will happen, allowing them to get it out this year.

[@neofromthewarnerbrothersic145]

Exactly Tomato... server meshing won't solve all of the problems. It's just the next set of problems that have to be solved for the game to be possible as they've envisioned it. It is "Jesus tech" in the sense that it's very important, and we're still waiting for it. But sometimes people use "Jesus tech" to mean that we're all putting faith in something that will never arrive. I don't have "faith" that server meshing will work - I'm waiting to see. The Jesus rubber is about to hit the road, Jebus take the wheel!

[@PaulColeVFX]

would love to seea current talk about using VR with star citizen and will it have VR ability int he future since the interface is already essentially a vr type setup

[@furyiv]

GTA 6 started development in 2014, is that out yet?

[@PaulMEdwards]

Rockstar also had the benefits of existing studios, staff, tech & IP, and the game being based on real Earth locations with no alien stuff or sci-fi tech content to invent. Oh and existing cash cows (GTA 5, RDR 2, etc.) to milk for plenty of funding. Sources I've seen indicate GTA 6 has a budget of at least $2 billion, not counting marketing.

[@PaulMEdwards]

Concord took 8 years to develop basically a lame copy of Overwatch and was stillborn with the plug pulled after 2 weeks. And at least $400 million was spent on that.

[@Sheppardsg1]

@@PaulMEdwards and how that floped mighty due to dei

[@SingleTrack66]

Why did it take 7 days for KZbin to recommend a video featuring two people I subscribe to ?

[@Onchas-s4m]

Tomato, you've said a few times that the release date for Sq42 was 2016 -- when I pledged in early-2013 CR said that the first set of missions would be out in Spring 2014.

[@NicholasRyan0723]

The first set of missions for starcitizen, not SQ42.

[@NORKIE]

dont worry guys, server meshing will fix the server meshing...

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Servers mesh meshed servers meshing

[@DamonCzanik]

4.0 with server meshing is in Evocati now. So, it worked! Also, 2000 players tests when their 4.0 plan was 200 people? Let's fucking go!

[@criticalchai]

meshing is kind of an instance type tech. you are effectively on an instance running that area of space. if it gets slow it can spool up more instances to take care of interiors etc so everything should run fine. unlike an instance though it isn't locked off from the rest fo the world. you can call for help or respawn and fly back and get back to the area and be added to that instance or removed as people leave. seems like they are getting to a good place with it. the question will be can fights take place across it and can it handle larger ship fights

[@vidblitz]

Hold the line fellas.

[@DamonCzanik]

4.0 is in Evocati.

[@日本トーマス]

"Loading screens" are no problem if you design them right. For me personally, x3 had a good compromise. You had loading screens, but you would have a cinematic showing your ship travel through a warp tunnel. I never felt like that was annoying, even If I was traveling a lot through sectors. This was also far more than you ever would ever be using your quantum travel in star citizen.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

No loading screens. Period.

[@shempasta]

Soon™

[@DamonCzanik]

4.0 is now in Evocati. So, yes. It's fucking soon.

[@FeathersMcClaw]

I definitely like this project because of the ambition.

[@tikytembo8819]

Great guest and great conversation

[@korbentherhino]

Personally here's the likely scenario. They will start 4.0 Evo before cit con with 100 or so server mesh to start fixing features. While running a tech preview refining

[@aevacado]

This was awesome!

[@DaringDan]

The way you explained that at the beginning, if your theory is true is what CIG should have explained. Instead they did a bunch of hooting and hollering for months about how 4.0 was this year, and in reality, it was a one patch year with delayed things conflated into being more than they were.

[@drewbydoobydoo2918]

I am not a fan of reducing boost speeds at all. I was running Vaughn missions with some buddies, and we got got by Avenger's org. It was like 15 v 4 (plus one turret gunner). Now, getting got is fine. That was on us for not taking down comm arrays, and losing a pitched battle like that is totally fair. My issue was that there was precicesly 0 chance for my gunner and I in the C2 to get away, even without reduced boost speeds. We started to run the second they showed up, and our escort fighters went straight to killing one of the two mantis. There was 0 hope for us to escape by switching to nav and outrunning them, so it turned into a very boring fly in a straight line while they slowly followed and killed us. In nav, our speed was capped at 300 (not sure if this is a bug or a feature of qd locking). I can't imagine it was very fun or interesting for them either after the initial ambush was over.

[@cmdr_thrudd]

Great chat, enjoyed that. 😊

[@ГнедойАлексёв]

I don't need another Elite, I don't need another Starfield - that's the only reason I'm still here.

[@ericweeks8386]

CIG bought a ton of the "Cloud computing has infinite power!" kool-aid. This game, at this pace, is due out in 2959.

[@DamonCzanik]

No Kool-Aid. The facts: A playable 4.0 is in Evocati RIGHT NOW. SQ42 feature complete. 2,000 player stress tests happening with server meshing. Star Citizen 1.0 release talked about at CitizenCon. You don't know your shit, or you would be working there showing them how it's done. 😆

[@ericweeks8386]

@@DamonCzanik You fail to realize that Chris has surrounded himself with ""Yes men", the group-think there is so strong, anyone who disagrees is either forced out, or quits in disgust.

[@criseichenlaub6527]

It almost sounds like the case is being made that development has not actually started until after the server tech is complete. Is this the case? I recall an extreme faction of white knights rejecting pre2012 as the start of development because planet tech inferred the real start of development was not till 2016. Sounds like someone is setting up the next development reset.

[@jakeofnotrades]

I don’t think it’s very cool to get mad at Mike for watching your content then not giving him credit for the info on 3.24.2. I know it was a developer comment but it feels a little icky to not even mention that bro.

[@Matt-eg1vz]

Tomato is big mad that someone else's Twitch stream had a dev comment on it and not his.

[@jWeslo]

Very disappointed with how this was handled

[@natewagstaff2516]

Yea kinda lost a bit of respect for just saying “somebody’s stream”

[@Tentacl]

Yeah, smells like hypocrisy

[@Cplblue]

To be fair, he found the comment on the star citizen sub-reddit (I saw him respond about first time seeing it) and don't believe the OP of that thread mentioned where it came from.

[@jWeslo]

If this is how we will treat developers going into multiple creators chats and sharing information, then it will surely balloon into a untenable situation where CIG won't allow that communication at all.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

Entitlement is baked into the cake of the internet. No going back.

[@stephanmilius3598]

You just cannot please most people. For years Server Meshing was just a promise and made fun of along the wait for it. Than we saw it on last years Citizencon and now players are testing it and witness it improving. But still people are not pleased with what CIG is doing. Next thing people will complain about is that it is only 1000 players on a shard.

[@XeroJin84]

They added a feature that no one was really asking for. People understood there were problems with combat. They don't like what was implemented to "fix" combat. So they've added a feature that some people don't like - that's all. If they added a feature to support 1000 players but in order to do so, they had to remove game physics. Do you think everyone would like that?

[@anthonystrickland7049]

When it seems like every answer to bugs is that the solution needs server meshing, anything short of fully playable isn't worth cheering about. Sliding from bricked to marginally functional isn't a Mission Accomplished situation. My least favorite aspect of this community is it's tendency to treat minor progress as a completed task and half-baked features as if they are feature complete.

[@stephanmilius3598]

@@XeroJin84 I was referring to the general impatience of players and them not being able to value what was already been delivered. I am not arguing about features. Either you like them and stay or you do not and leave.

[@stephanmilius3598]

@@anthonystrickland7049 And most people simply have no clue what challenges CIG faced and still faces. If you can point to competitor with a similar vision in terms of scope and complexity, that has been succesful by now, fine. But when not, think about why that is.

[@jakejewkes6688]

@@stephanmilius3598 just like those 25k concord players right? People fail to see the trend in gaming lately, you can spend over 400 mil and 8 years of work just to see the game removed less than 2 weeks from its release because the majority of the player base wants nothing to do with it, that’s slowly becoming my fear with SC and sq42, words don’t mean shit now a days and results actually matter and CIG has been doing more fluff than results and the community is starting to take notice and are starting to leave in droves

[@critic_empower_joke_rlaxtslife]

Server meshing is the most crucial idea of star citizen. Question is, did they, and do they handle it in best possible way. I am no coder, neither network engineer, but from my desk it seems very laborious and about to blow in our faces for 3, 6 months, 1 year, 2 years??? Who knows.

[@DamonCzanik]

4.0 with server meshing is in Evocati right now. They just did a 2,000 players test in tech preview. Star Citizen 1.0 release discussed next week So, from my desk, it sounds like things are moving forward just fine.

[@danny1988221]

should do some youtube shorts, call them tomato slices, could get more views on talking pinpoints and bring more people to look at the whole talk, unfortunately people want shorter content. I don't mind great vid thanks!

[@honichi1]

im still waiting for the server meshing diary part 2 ISC

[@rhetor4mentor13]

right after Briefing Room Episode 2.

[@NicholasRyan0723]

Right after Pillar Talk

[@TheJack4000111]

Jesus wasn't born at Christmas

[@trashdoktor]

I was positive about SC for the first 6 months of getting/playing it. After that, even tho I loved the basic game, I realized that it had major flaws that CIG were not & will probably not ever address. It's only grown worse thru the years. And after being RIPPED OFF for buying a ship (years ago) that will never be released, I'm almost to the point of believing it IS a scam.

[@DamonCzanik]

Please. You were NOT ripped off. You just don't bother reading the massive disclaimers. You were not ripped off, just being an idiot & making bad financial decisions. Sell for store credit. 4.0 is in Evocati. It's not a scam.

[@michaeltrager5992]

great Podcast!

[@UnknownMoses]

The vision of star citizen would never work without server meshing but it still doesn’t fully work so still lots of development to go. I do not like flight modes, not being able to have shields on is stupid, not being able to use weapons is stupid.

[@Randaddy25]

Its been almost a couple weeks now, that I can't take off or land at Area18 (my home spawn). ASOP terminal gives me an error every single time and if i try to land there (thankfully my regen spot is somewhere else), ATC just never gives me a hangar. I have no access to things i bought.

[@rhetor4mentor13]

what about asking someone in-game to fly you over to Bajini? or a character repair (on RSI website)? or contacting support?

[@Randaddy25]

@@rhetor4mentor13 So, character repair didn't fix it. Full uninstall and reinstall didn't fix it. Created a ticket on the council since it happened, no response yet. I still have no access to things I bought with real money. I offered 100K for someone to fly me out of there and was ignored the entire time. Then I remembered that my Regen spot was somewhere else. I can still play at the moment, but it would be nice if I could go to Area18 because I wanna buy a super hornet but I can't. Same with the other ships on offer there. Im not angry or anything, I just want them to fix it.

[@rhetor4mentor13]

@@Randaddy25 sad to hear that, especially about no one answering your call... it feels like the community has grown more and more mainstream and thus quite selfish, two-three years ago it would be unthinkable not to have at least 2 people volunteering to transport you for 3 (on 50 ppl server). Well good that you could respawn elsewhere and claim your ships. You could hack your way in though, with some help (someone dropping you down to A18, and even coming with you to the shop or else you backspace). LMK if you need a hand, I can play EST evenings.

[@Randaddy25]

@@rhetor4mentor13 I looked at the ticket I created and it seems that there are many others with this same issue at various places all over the verse. Mainly spaceports and space stations. I quit asking people for a ride, after I offered that 100K someone literally asked for a ride right after me and they picked him up no problem. That coupled with people screwing me over when I give them rides has made me just not do it for anyone anymore. I just ignore beacons and chat. I still throw new players credits just to be nice, but it's not all bad. I've had quite a few good experiences too. I adore this game and play every day after for a couple hours and all weekend usually EST as well. If you ever see me on there and need a hand or anything, feel free to hit me up in global. My handle is Socio (CruelKingRan).

[@TheStumafoo]

I’m honestly at the point .. I gave them 10+years.. if I could get a refund for ships I would.. I’m all set with the PU..

[@LuluGamingDK]

So this is just a wild card type of comment I'm about to throw out, but has anybody else noticed the groundwork coding that was put in the Evo Patch... Those are usually added when there's something bigger coming very soon, That usually has a big impact on the coding and game itself... And I don't think a handful of caves and some new tattoos and piercings are considered big enough to warrant 44 gigabytes, In my experience. Ask for the comment about 4.0, being the beginning And that just means we have so much more to go for the game to be built. I think that on some level that should remind people that the first 5 to 10 years of developing a game are normally never seen. We've been here the whole time, so we see a game being developed alongside it being played. It's easy to forget that that's not normal. Most Beta tests and demos already have some type of groundwork done. Star citizen without server machine is just Eve online, But in first person. I've played eve for over 8 years and I can tell you. Will you would quickly come to the same conclusion most likely. I don't think they will Increase it past a 1000 just for a second system. I think the thousand is for the second system.. It's not about putting a 100 in one and a 100 and the other. You could fit a thousand in both systems and have zero in the other one. I think people keep confusing servers and shards. It's a thousand people per shard across multiple servers. With no loading screens. I think a better way to describe. This would be saying you have a 1000 players Per server and multiple zones with no loading screen.

[@abaranihei2608]

Youre coping

[@PaulMEdwards]

CIG has stated that 3.24.2 is on the 4.0 codebase and that's the main reason for the large download. Also the TECH-PREVIEW Server Meshing test later today (Tuesday) will try for a 2,000 player cap.

[@artsolano6762]

Was server meshing a bad idea? No. But CIG oversold what they could deliver by a wide margin. The PU will always have challenges with synchronization and server lag. I don't think we will ever get the performance of a much more limited multiplayer experience. The size of the universe has also been very over sold. Dynamically generated space can only provide so much persistency and significant objects. We can't fit an entire univers in a bunch of terabytes. Im resting my hopes on Squadron 42

[@zantrag]

Now CIG intends to remove two of the four size 5 guns from pilot control, on the Corsair. Forcing multi-player? Or, Likely there will be a shiny new ship at the next ship sale, with powerful forward guns, that they want to sell. It seems to me that CIG knows they can't produce the 1000 players per shard, so, they want most of us to quit? When has ANYTHING worked out the way CIG promised it would.... server meshing will NOT be the holy grail.

[@SpaceCitizenFaye]

Fronstpunk 2 for your city building pleasure

[@LeifPalmin]

We have the quantum travel and the "tunnels" when we change system.. really?! Could just made it loading screens

[@neofromthewarnerbrothersic145]

What tenpound is saying around 41:40 is key. This is THE biggest thing most people still don't fully get about SC. It was always supposed to be experimental, they're not following a blueprint like games usually do. They did guess at release dates early on, and that was stupid... but they never really promised it would be done fast. At least not as much as they promised it would be the most ambitious, no compromises game they could attempt. I was never bothered about the delays because I care more about what it is than when it releases.

[@pilongaracing8902]

First time i hear from a videogame "dont play it too much". That tells me a lot of things.

[@seancpcp]

Without server meshing, I wouldn't be interested in this game.

[@Fragnatix]

By the way, for 1.0, dynamic server meshing would probably come with 1 Shard 1 Universe, or at least, World Region Universe locked in like any MMOs. 5 systems....The amount of CCU there will be my friends. Warzone everywhere. They just hit another wall before even releasing 1.0. They need either 100 system, or find a way to generate random empty worlds for players, orgs and alliances to build the stations. And more, Benoit said that 1 base would live in all shards lol, wtf is this.

[@TruthIsKey369]

You totally forgot about how much money SQ42 will make which can drag out Starcitizen development for 5 more years before release, without additional funding. SQ42 will at least sell 10 million copies and that alone will amount to at least 500 million dollars. They need to give us a SQ42 release date which will be the hype they need for next year. When it comes to Starcitizen, for me I don't mind as long as CIG makes it the best MMO, no sacrificing anything. The industry is a joke and that is why I love what CIG is doing so far. Regardless of how poor certain situations has been, because if you compare to other studios, there are much much worse situations that's happened the last 10 years.

[@memorycl]

Your voices blend well (literally and figuratively). Repeat this guest please.

[@HighlyfeDP]

They are dropping the Polaris at IAE. They have to have 4.0 out by then. Always gotta have the patch out for a ship sale. You can't have the Polaris without other Capitol ships

[@headlightbandit8618]

I'm getting close to writing this project off entirely

[@ChookyChuck]

your description of 3.24.2 server meshing sound more like CIG marketing than any thing real. A part of me thinks they know server meshing will never work and they are stringing us along.

[@zacharypump5910]

They need to abandon server meshing and implement Pyro with a loading screen jump. I’m so over it and hugely disappointed with CIG for holding the game back so long. I hope Chris feels some sense of shame

[@DakkaDakka12]

CiG is being braindead, literally everything in SC requires server meshing to run acceptably. Without server meshing star citizen could realistically only run as a single player game because SC requires too many resources. You will never have AI doing anything without server meshing so no ai crews, no turrets, no animals. Capital class ships can’t exist without server meshing bc the game can’t handle the player quantity. More planets can’t exist without server meshing. Salvage has a particle limit because of lack of server meshing which also limits item limits in your cargo hold. And much more. Basically they can’t add anything new to the game without it, they can only change what currently exists because the star citizen servers are already stretched to the limit.

[@playakoz]

How many endless lies and excuses do people need before they realize this game is simply a money printing machine!

[@TUROCK320]

More 3D ship and 2D concept !

[@Cpt_Kakashi]

buying one ATLS for every "server meshing" i hear in this video!

[@Bubblegum_Ronin]

So for all those SC naysayers, please.. take a deep breath and let CIG do it's thing. You can step away, that's totally fine but don't be upset by something with such a huge scope of which CIG is trying to bring to the table. Many players get it, but still many miss the point of the current state of SC and if they could understand that, then perhaps players would be less aggravated by the length of time it's taken to get to where CIG is at today. CIG is attempting to create a persistent universe with "a lot" of players. It hasn't been done in a 3D game before to the scale they're shooting for so their challenge is enormous. If you are frustrated, take this away... When you log into SC to play, you're actually not logging in as a player, you're logging in as a tester of a game that has a pretty crazy scope of features, with more to come. Of course you could argue it's simply taken too long, and I'd understand that argument if the tech had already been created by another company in a shorter timeframe and CIG was burning through money just because they thought they could do it better and/or didn't want to license out the other tech, but this isn't the case, the tech simply doesn't exist. Over the years, have they produced in the most efficient way? Probably not but not every road, especially one as complicated as the one they're traveling on, would be so clear cut, so I give them a lot of slack. On the upside, discernible progress has been made! 30Ks rarely happen and server meshing looks extremely promising. Of course there are a lot of bugs, but let's not kid ourselves, with a game like SC, it'll always have bugs - a lot of released games do. As long as CIG continues to squash the old and new bugs they'll be ok. Is a 1.0 version of SC just around the corner? God no, but when/if they produce a usable server meshing demo, then I truly believe the rest will start to fall into place and at a faster rate than we could have hoped for. There will undoubtedly be a lot of modules that'll need rewrites in whole or in part and locations that will need "tweaking" but they now have an incredible base to work off of. If you've been feeling negative about SC, just think of the WHOLE of what they're shooting for, not just any one part. They've come a long way, as they should've but we can't turn our backs on all that progress.. we can't let them fail now. Of course I wish we already had 1.0 but I personally believe the glass is a lot more full than empty and CIG will continue to get my patience and support - hopefully yours too.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

It's an empirical fact that open development increases build time by 50%-80%. Look at Tarkov; that game has also been in development for ten years. Open development and early access slow things down considerably because assets are diverted to appease testers who have main-character syndrome.

[@Bubblegum_Ronin]

@@fwdcnorac8574 absolutely. 👍🏻 We're not playing anything, we're testing, even in the PU, and it's in our best interest to keep testing as they build without letting criticism become overbearing.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

@@Bubblegum_Ronin What blows my mind are the people complaining about wipes. "I lost all my progress!" is peak 2024. Personally, I don't care if they wipe. I don't care if somebody blows up my ship. I don't care about my Aeuc balance. It's simply testing. Why are people trying to "beat the game" that isn't a game yet? It's insane. They all knew what they were getting into before they pledged. And now they act like board members. Peak entitlement!

[@Bubblegum_Ronin]

​​@@fwdcnorac8574for sure. Honestly, to all the people that feel heart broken when there's a big change, even after so many years, or the fact that it's taken this long to get to where we're at, I say, feel however you want but in the end, let a little sense enter the chat and realize that until the game gets released, there's no actual game and we're not a players but testers. Anyways, it's hard to change hearts and minds and really, they can only do it themselves if they allow for some introspection.

[@trashdoktor]

@@Bubblegum_Ronin I'm just really tired of paying to be a beta tester.

[@THEMALBINO]

Just prepare for first person master modes. When in combat mode you have acces to all your gear and your character is really fat, slow and not that agile. And when in running mode you are butt naked and athletic.

[@kwcnasa]

Resume @1:30:00

[@Simon-Wolf]

This shows the danger of doomtalking. CIG really do generally know what they are doing. Sure they have major issues, have to retrace their steps now and then and take another path.... but that, that is what you have to do when you are blazing a trail in unknown territory. And we should expect it. The do however continually make significant progress

[@Minishimirukaze]

Unfortunately CIG hasn't learned that you are supposed to underpromise and over deliver... conintually under delivering for the life of the project has begun to really erode my confidence in CIGs ability to deliver on their claims.

[@Kimlorentz]

Ye no. I don’t see 4.0 this year. Maybe Q2 next year

[@darqshark3506]

I gotta be honest... server meshing makes no sense when every time you quantum travel could just be a loading screen and like a Dead Space loading screen. Where are our ship is the elevator your in while it's "loading"😐 Like does anyone have an argument against that? Maybe interdiction? But I feel making that a possibility still would be easier than server meshing 😂

[@NicholasRyan0723]

Server meshing is not simply about going from one place to another. The necessity of server meshing is in the computational load based on player count in any given area. It is about sharing the load.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

@@NicholasRyan0723 Don't bother. You'd have a better chance convincing a sheet of drywall that they are a flower.

[@nahuelcutrera]

go play starfield... you have that there.

[@darqshark3506]

@@nahuelcutrera buddy, I'm talking about hidden loading screens. Not Bethesda trash. A lot of games hide loading screens. With the amount of quantum and elevator or tram sitting we do those could easily be loading screens where we're just stuck in a "room" where no one can join or leave it.

[@nahuelcutrera]

@@darqshark3506 they solve that part with object conatining streaming a long time ago, they are working on networking thousands of players and serving them all at the same time now.

[@XxAlbainxX]

TenPound just makes excuse after excuse for CIG not holding them accountable for anything. And just saying it is hard to make games. He is delusional or works for CIG.

[@Thor_Asgard_]

whoever ever thought, that 4.0 would launch this or next year with the promissed shit is just an insane person and has no clue at all.

[@abaranihei2608]

Ah they are crazy for believing what people that are paid with exactly those peoples money promosed. Nice Gaslighting.

[@Thor_Asgard_]

@@abaranihei2608 We gonna see whos right

[@littlefoot2869]

i refuse to even play this game until i get the ships i paid for and they put 1.0 4.0 or what ever the hell there calling it it big fat No and dont care what shiny thing put in still No

[@vladkudrya9615]

And in the end, according to rumors, we do not get the entire squaron 42, but only the first act...

[@Matt-eg1vz]

Rumors? this is clearly laid out in official communications. like since day one. Stay mad, it helps your cortisol levels.

[@vladkudrya9615]

@@Matt-eg1vz but in my purchase it says the whole game and not the first act.

[@GlaucoBeltrame]

40k daily players, November was 800k, March was 400k. It is a fact that the game is going in the wrong direction.

[@Fragnatix]

Where is that stat coming from?

[@AlleniumProductions]

@@Fragnatix Google it.

[@cheesesniper473]

Seever monitors who do player stat tracks. Dont worry, there will still be 100 SC bros who will tell you they are all fake. And continue to believe that server meshing will magically allow CIG to shove a whale through a garden hose.

[@PaulMEdwards]

Those numbers track well with the hype build up after CitizenCon, the punishing 3.18 release, and the current status with most players just waiting for 4.0. Many if not most of those players will come back for 4.0 and even more will be gained.

[@SuperTyrannical1]

General rule of thumb. Just add 6 months to any target release dates. 3.23 was supposed to be in descember last year. When we did get it there were missing features like hangars and cargo elevators. Expect the same for 4.0 We will more than likely get a watered down version by june 2025. That way we can only be pleasently surprised if it does make it on time. 👍

[@rolinthor]

That still puts SQ42 in mid 2017 though.

[@ForwardKinematics]

lotta hope, faith, and resolve... sure does sound like copium was involved in this episode. Seriously though, it's probably all we as backers can do anyway.

[@sketto1283]

So much riding on what they do and say before years end. Still keeping my hopes up!

[@ShiriGoldberg]

Mrs. Banu Server Meshing...

[@Asgar1205]

continiously pushing on the release view? did i miss something? so far it was only pushed from Q3 to Q4, no?

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Yes, maybe I mispoke. It's only been delayed once so far on the release view.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

I'm watching this while playing Escape From Tarkov, level 40. It's such a chill, relaxing game compared to Star Citizen right now.

[@Pharesm]

Cloud Imperium has become a clown car...

[@petonman4553]

With the way the community is talking, i honestly wouldnt be surprised if we dont see 4.0 hit live till 2026😂

[@ro0140]

The only thing I'm not positive about is the Flight Model we have at the moment. Because it is really a major problem if you make a Space Game where flying space ships is really important for almost all game play. And it is not a good problem to have after 12 years into development and being on the brink of releasing Squadron 42. Every flight model we had until now has had its issues, but it was better dan this Slow, Slow Master/Mode flight model which trying to disengage is almost not possible nor can you turn on a dime. Master/Mode with all the modes and the flight bubble, the speed, the maneuvering thrusters and boost speeds it is all too complicated and restricted. Now it is great if you can add or active a computer model that helps you out or even change the way certain ships fly, let be honest a lot of plains these day cannot be flown without a flight computer who helps you keep the plane in the air. And Master/Mode it just doesn't feel good... And tuning Boost Speeds down and adding more Armor so we have more pewpew time on target all of it will not change the flight model that from the ground up is broken. I get the Wing Commander flight feel but Star Citizen is just not an Arcade Space Shooter. Of course they can make it like Wing Commander but this would restrict the 6 degrees of freedom more and more.

[@deanhartley3186]

Smoke and mirrors will only work for so longgggggg.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

Ignorance is eternal.

[@Metro2Metro]

Pyro Dec 2026