How to Improve Your VO2 Max - Dr. Peter Attia

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Resources from this episode: tim.blog/2023/03/14/peter-att...
Peter Attia, MD (@PeterAttiaMD), is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan. He is the host of The Drive, one of the most popular podcasts covering the topics of health and medicine.
Dr. Attia received his medical degree from the Stanford University School of Medicine and trained for five years at the Johns Hopkins Hospital in general surgery, where he was the recipient of several prestigious awards, including Resident of the Year. He spent two years at the National Institutes of Health as a surgical oncology fellow at the National Cancer Institute, where his research focused on immune-based therapies for melanoma.
His new book is Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity (3/28): www.amazon.com/Outlive-Scienc...
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ABOUT TIM:
Tim Ferriss is one of Fast Company’s “Most Innovative Business People” and an early-stage tech investor/advisor in Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Shopify, Duolingo, Alibaba, and 50+ other companies. He is also the author of five #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers: The 4-Hour Workweek, The 4-Hour Body, The 4-Hour Chef, Tools of Titans and Tribe of Mentors. The Observer and other media have named him “the Oprah of audio” due to the influence of his podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show, which has exceeded 900 million downloads and been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three years running.
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[@timferriss]

This episode is brought to you by: Wealthfront high-yield savings account wealthfront.com/tim Helix Sleep premium mattresses helixsleep.com/tim Shopify global commerce platform providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business shopify.com/tim

[@westcoastkidd17]

1) Spend majority of your training in zone 2 and increase the duration gradually over time 2) Do high intensity intervals once a week --- intervals should be 3-8 minutes and rest time should equal the duration of the interval

[@anthropomorphizedrock]

3) zone 5 once a week 4) zone 2 minimum effective dose (starting from 0) 2x week 30 mins, building up to 3x 60 min sessions or 4x 45 min sessions

[@CM-so1cf]

@@anthropomorphizedrockdon’t cap the zone 2 training times so low, you can train in zone 2 for very long workouts if you want to.

[@jimo50]

Why the advice in comments?

[@tomdebevoise]

I am 66, and I have been training for 40+ years. I do about 5-7 hours of biking and 5 hours of yoga. My Vo2 max is around 50. I ride with the Reston bike club, our local GII club, and the A/B drop guys. We move at 18-24 MPH along the flat, and the distances are 30 to 50 miles. There are usually multiple pacelines, and in a paceline, you hit Z5 for 2 to 4 minutes dozens of times, not counting hills. More than half of these guys are racers or former racers. Most weeks, I will only do 1 ride like this a week because I get overtrained. I will go out for 90 minutes on the off days and move at 14 to 15 mph. It makes riding more fun. All this said, I frequently see men and women on their bikes with their bellies almost almost reaching the top tube. Anyone can push a bike at around 14mph on the flat; it only takes about 60-80 watts. For a while, I had to go to an indoor cycling studio due to surgery on my arm. They would blast dance/hip-hop music, and during the sprints, my meter would show 300 watts, and I would see the person's meter next to me registering 40 watts. If I had to give any advice to someone wanting to improve their VO2 max, I suggest getting into a group setting that will challenge you. Hot yoga or Pilates can be very intense, and most studios have a progression of classes that will get you there. Join your local bike club and ride with the Cs for a while, then go on a B ride. Intensity is critical. I apologize, but you must suffer; embrace your inner David Goggins.

[@DavidSaundersPosts]

RBC for the win!

[@lutherRain]

Awesome advice!

[@GreedRuinsEverything]

How do find hats to fit that giant ego of yours?

[@fishingphill]

I think too many people think zone 2 is a walk in the park. I like Dr Inigo San Millán description of zone 2. You can talk but it don't want to and a long zone 2 hurts. You can't go off heart rate. In 56, going off the calculations for my age I thought my zone 2 was about 105-115 HR. I went and did a properly VO2 Max and lactate test. When the results came back a week later from the university. My True zone 2 is 138-152 HR because of my fitness. I can tell you now, doing an 60-180 minutes in this zone is not easy but it is doable because that's where I'm at.

[@Youtubehandle758]

Tim always asks the best clarifying questions. It’s like he reads my mind

[@JG_1998]

I'm an asthmatic that went from not being able to run a mile at any pace to being able to do a sub 12 min/2 mile within 7 months. My Vo2 max is in the mid-upper 50s now, it's definitely possible to drastically improve if you work hard and work consistently. I never did any zone 2 training though, I try to max out or come close to maxing out with every run (zone 4-5). Now that I want to do a 5k in 18 minutes I think I'll do lower intensity training in order to build endurance.

[@richardjackson9725]

Perfect length vid, concise and all key points covered. Thx Tim

[@Gref75]

Like any short clip from long interview, this lacks the important info we all need to hear. If you're a beginner: 1) you're not able to do 90% heart rate training, certainly not for 4 minutes and you won't be able to recover to under 100 bpm in 4 minutes or less 2) you don't have zone 2 and need to build your aerobic capacity from absolute nothing 3) everything you do cardio-wise is giving you progress so start with that and enjoy it, because it won't last but will get you hooked and fall in love with training

[@MountainVisions]

100% true. Basically took a year off. Lactate threshold is on the floor. Was like 170-180 before now it's barely 150. Which has my zones all screwed up because even though my HR is the same (max) I simply can't train in the same zones right now. What I've done in the past is actually focused on short garbage zone efforts to build my lactate threshold. No idea if this is proper but it works for me. So 45 minutes hammer and hope for the best and in a few weeks I'm riding harder. I get a lot of longer duration stuff hiking so my cycling is more of my zone 3/4/5 (although I definitely hit those zones hiking up the steeps). Even hiking though I just am not hitting any sort of consistent heart rate right now. I was sustaining 140 avg for a hard effort over 5+ hours pre hiatus, and now 120 is basically a hard effort. A lot of this is really lactate threshold reduction and the inability to clear/utilize lactate.

[@weiwenng8096]

I think this is important. Attia is very fit. His advice is likely sound for someone looking to go from the 75th percentile of VO2max to the 85th or something like that. If you are starting out your exercise journey, then yes, anything you can do will make you fitter, probably keep most of it in Z2. Also, if you're a beginner and you want to do some VO2max intervals, you can and should start with 2 min intervals (do 6 to 8) or 3 min intervals (do 4-6). And yes, feel free to rest more than 2 or 3 minutes if you have to.

[@s.mc.3612]

#661: Dr. Peter Attia - The Science and Art of Longevity, Optimizing Protein, Alcohol Rules, Lessons from Glucose Monitoring with CGMs, Boosting Your VO2 Max, Preventing Alzheimer's Disease, Early Cancer Detection. Found the complete interview- 2 hrs 22 min on Spotify-The Tim Ferris Show

[@anthonykent00]

It's great to have this clip. I spent an hour so looking for this exact information a year ago.

[@johnmausteller]

This is awesome. Ty

[@ingosteinhaeuser9535]

Good insight. My VO2 Max is 55 and I am over 50. Lots of swimming, running and gym did it for me

[@RadarAustralia]

I'm 63 and can only manage VO2 Max 47.

[@1HappyBob]

@@RadarAustraliathat’s good 👍

[@zepho100]

That’s one of the highest I’ve ever seen. Especially at that age, are you an Olympic athlete?

[@jdepew]

Thanks!

[@johnmorgan7989]

A lot of people think zone 2 is just plodding along but in reality it's more a tempo type intensity.a 4 to 5 out of 10 effort wise. This is where Arthur Lydiard had his runners spending most of their time. Its steady but not all that easy

[@jdonalds160]

Thanks Tim. Would love to hear about your Ski training what you did how !

[@junu0507]

The garbage training zone (Z3, Z4) sounds like an overstatement. According to Dr. Rhonda Patrick, Zone 2 training is ineffective for some people (40%).

[@EdwardsNH]

Rhonda Patrick is my go to for all things science. But her training advice has a long way to go. Long… long way to go

[@1HappyBob]

PA is streets ahead of RP in this area. She learns from him.

[@fishingphill]

I've listened to her as well about the 40% of people but isn't she suggesting zone 5 HIIT suggestions as an alternative?

[@junu0507]

@@fishingphill Yes, both Attia and Rhonda agree that Z5 training (4*4 protocol) is necessary, but Rhonda disagrees that Z2 is necessary as 40% of people are nonresponsive (for increasing VO2 max).

[@dwightswift8727]

How do medications affect determining your zone 2 and zone 5? I am on beta blockers and cant get my heart rate even close to what it used to be.

[@jacobvanmeter4184]

In the video he mentioned that for zone 2 the best approach is 3hrs a week with 4x 45min or 3x 60min training sessions. What is the effectiveness of one 3hr training or two 90min sessions? Does it matter how you get to 3hrs a week?

[@rickysvt]

Does anyone know Peter Webcam set up? Looks amazing vs Tim’s

[@chrismelikian]

I wonder why Peter never addresses HR zones calculated by watches eg Garmin and an HR strap as a replacement for lactate tests

[@sunnysandhu4191]

If you do zone 5 immediately after finishing your zone 2 workout does it still count as one zone 2 workout and one zone 5 workout? Or do they need to be more acutely separated?

[@Cloppa2000]

My understanding is that you absolutely can do Z5 immediately after Z2 but not the other way around. But I am a beginner to running. I'm building up to this by doing 2 separate workouts in the same day. At 60 I don't presently have the energy to do the Z5 straight after a Z2 slog. I've pulled a calf muscle twice since starting 4 months ago from being a couch potato. I'm finding that recently added treadmill incline walks are good for my Z2 and this has lowered my resting HR whereas just doing Z3-5 was getting me fitter but didn't lower it.

[@SPhoenixGB]

I thought I did 30 mins of zone 2, felt like I was putting in decent effort, and when I checked my fitness app turns out for 21 mins I was in zone 1 so feel like I wasted my time.

[@aronrad]

Question, the 4x4 means 4 min hard push then absolute rest (then repeat cycle)? OR 4 min hard push + 4 min very easy jog, HIIT style?

[@adcashmo]

Recover however you want as long as you can do another 4m all-out at the end. Whether that ve walking, jogging, stopping completely. The key is "Recovery".

[@kevinivan91]

I like to walk semi-fast. 4 minutes of walking is enough for me to significantly lower my heart rate and get ready for the next push.

[@aronrad]

Got it, thanks 🙏

[@wavesnowaves]

Main thing is to stand still, as that won’t clear lactate. I generally walk during my rest periods.

[@AlexanderMoen]

In other videos he says to aim to get your heart bpm to 100 or less during recovery, so whatever that means for you

[@christopherlamb8297]

I love this cause you could create a simple training plan with just Zone 2, 4x4s and some strength training. Wondering it would allow me to maintain or increase current V02 max on just 10 hours/week? Current VO2 Max is 54 (calculated by Garmin), 60 years old, and probably do way too much Zone 3 and Zone 4 in 10 hours of workouts.... I know I should just try it for a month, but if anyone has insight, please comment

[@4747da]

I'm actually disappointed to learn the heart rate is not a good indicator, since it's so easy to do cardio when you adjust your effort to reach a desired heart rate. I found in the past, the perceived effort level has motivational disadvantage of being influenced by expectations, comparing the level of effort to some ideal level you once felt in a random workout, and probably worst of all, it's less sustainable for the long term. if you constantly have to make a mental judgment, instead of simply measuring heart rate.

[@domfindon5260]

Hi, some people suggest 180 take your age gives you an indicator for your zone 2 HR. Then tweak your target HR - eg I often push too hard so I use a target HR a few beats lower so I don't stray into zone 3. It works for me, but perhaps not for everyone.

[@Cloppa2000]

You absolutely can use HR for zones but I found the Karvonen method to be better than basic percentages of max HR only. Karvonen ties in very well with my MAF Z2 and with my 'MyWorkouts' fitness app. At 60yo with an HRM of 163 and RHR of 56 my Z2 is 120-130, Z3 131-142, Z4 143-152, Z5 153-163 My MAF Z2 is 180-60+10 = 130. You can check your exertion levels at the various HR levels. You soon get to feel where things change by your breathing rate.

[@Bstar2024]

I get the feeling you haven’t spoken with a pro coach on the breakdown of zone2 training and the % you should include

[@chrisg.5585]

For that 4 min on/ 4 min off, on a scale 1-10 what intensity should I be at? I feel like if I go 10. I’m gonna be gassed out quick

[@JustOneWolf]

you are the scale, the hardest YOU can do for 3 or 4mins without having to stop or reduce intensity - so thats probably like 90-95% of your max

[@Machoman510]

Generally speaking, how would one know if they have built a large enough base to then build a high peak without a way of measuring lactate?

[@daniellef1]

Gotta get tested along the way. Lots of universities or sports performance companies can accommodate.

[@beesplaining1882]

A Garmin or similar device estimates it. It's not perfect but it works.

[@Machoman510]

@@beesplaining1882 Estimates what? That you're aerobically fit?

[@beesplaining1882]

@@Machoman510 it estimates your vo2 max

[@Machoman510]

@@beesplaining1882 Maybe I'm not fully understanding, but how does a vo2 max # indicate that I have a 'large enough base' or 'I'm aerobically fit' to then starting building the peak. In this video, if I recall, there was a test that was referenced with a specific measured result that suggested what I'm after.

[@geoffl6284]

My cohort of quite high performing cyclists with lifetimes of very good fitness have an average age of about 70 years old. Our VO2 numbers place us in the excellent VO2 max category for our respective ages. However 6 of us out of 30 have recently experienced atrial flutter or arrythmia and so have had cardioversion or ablation procedures. it would be great to have some discussion on why we are developing these problems?

[@tjtruth4793]

Have you guys started looking at what recent medicines you all may have taken and what risks they may pose to the heart? Statistically, it seems very improbable that a cluster of that size in that specific population would just sporadically arise. I would bet that there is a common factor.

[@lotembenatar7163]

I can jog in Zone 2, but it's highly unsatisfying; I prefer to run in Zone 3 for long distances and even in Zone 4 for shorter distances (5-6 km). I feel better, finish quicker, and have more time for the day. Eventually, when you train for years, shorter exercises are preferred and more enjoyable.

[@koma7778]

I have to agree with this one.

[@michaelregan427]

Agree on the z2, I really don't enjoy zone 2 running. Hiking in zone 2 is fine and entertaining. Seems most good triathlon athletes prefer Z2 on the bike, plus you recover faster than you do running in z2 for hours.

[@Mikeztarp]

The Food Pyramid is out; the Cardio Pyramid is in.

[@mattwlane]

"You should be able to talk but you're not going to want to." That's waaaaay different than what's been taught.

[@goldernie]

Holy sh** only 50% improvement over a lifetime?? The methylene blue Bros are in soooooo much trouble. Impossible to recover from the vO2 rewiring, basically.

[@wavesnowaves]

My RPE for zone 2, if I’m going by suggested ways to interpret exertion - ends up with me being in my zone 3 HR levels.

[@keylimecat]

Same with me

[@stefanweilhartner4415]

what EXACTLY happens in zone 2 that doesn't happen in zone 5?

[@beesplaining1882]

Your muscles increase their number of mitochondria.

[@stefanweilhartner4415]

@@beesplaining1882 but that happens in HIIT as well, probably even more. i read the studies of martin gibala from mcmasters university and others. it is not difficult to understand. AMPK detects energy deficiency by detecting a low ratio of ATP/AMP and then triggering the production of the mitochondrial growthfactor PGC-1alpha. and the growth itself happens when AMPK is not active and mTOR and PCG-1alpha is active.

[@vipergod2000]

This still DOESN'T explain what key difference between Zone 3 and Zone 2 feels like. The RPE difference, if it supposedly "is really the best way to do it and far more accurate than heart rate". I can start a run / bike at a low end of my zone 2 based on my Garmin measured lactate threshold test and maximum heart rate, and after 1-2 hours my heart rate at the same level of exertion be creeping into zone 3 and I'll have to dial my effort back down. I try to maintain breathing that is very manageable (3-4 strides/pedals on breathing in, same breathing out). The RPE of 'feeling like you could go on forever' feels like my zone 2, and also the lower part of my zone 3. I still fail to see the distinction and how to be a better judge of this. I wish Peter and/or other experts could produce a comprehensive RPE descriptor across each of the zones (feeling, how long you can keep it up, etc) then that could truly help if the tech we use is supposedly inaccurate, and I sure as hell won't be pricking my fingers or ears during cardio sessions!

[@daniellef1]

3 minutes at Zone 5? Ouch.

[@LorenS-vx6pp]

Great to have a good VOX, but we’re still old so when I see men on dating apps posting that they’re 30 years younger, it doesn’t really matter you’re still old

[@steven871]

How many zones is his model? 5,6,7,8?

[@carwoman43]

5

[@steven871]

@@carwoman43 Gracias

[@unofsnd]

Now the question is: how do we combine it with weight training?

[@aronrad]

Same question. Commenting so I get notified if someone answers

[@arlingt0n]

He wrote this in his book - 3 times a week weight training, 1 time vo2 max and rest 2-3 are zone 2 Monday: zone 2, Tuesday: weight training Wednesday: zone 2 Thursday: weight training Friday: vo2 max Saturday: weight Sunday: zone 2 I think he did rucking Something like the above … the “productivity game” also did a summary on the book

[@iblisthemage]

Easy, don’t do cardio before weight training. Cardio will fatigue you just enough, that you can’t go heard enough, to get full benefit of your weight training. Do cardio after. Or if you have the time, another day.

[@tarunarachmad3976]

1:57

[@tarunarachmad3976]

2:49

[@tarunarachmad3976]

5:42

[@tarunarachmad3976]

two 30 minute a week

[@Cellardoor187]

There is almost no realistic way to incorperate this into a gym routine with strength training that makes sense. What go 2-times a day and then 4 times in a week? Or completely dedicate to vo2 max training + zone 2.

[@BroCode465]

I train jiu jitsu. My VO2 is high!

[@Jessiejames.]

Soooo fuckn lost … I love Peter Attia but man black and white my guy… Tim is lost as well .like bro break it down in English give examples… 🤯

[@JoeCole_social]

I always find it interesting how they paint Hitler as a fascist/on the right. when in reality, the party name was an acronym that stood for national socialist.

[@katieellenincdotcom]

Makes perfect sense

[@GreedRuinsEverything]

The giant narcissist Mr Keto Attia has now become Mr VO2Max Attia... so tired of this guys egofest dogma of the week... His favourite subject isn't human health.. its himself!! Every other sentence starts with the word "I"........ I wonder what BS he'll be spinning next year

[@katieellenincdotcom]

I try to slow down my. Are building now that I’m older and my lungs and heart have shrunk do to flaking out on my runs.

[@katieellenincdotcom]

Long and slow like 7 mile beach n just jogging?