Tiny House Built with Green Lumber and Floating Foundation

Today I'm using a real-life example to show you the long-term results of building with green lumber. I build almost all my outside projects with green lumber and sometimes it's good to see exactly what one of those projects look like after they have dried. Check out this tiny house that I built about 1.5 years ago using green lumber cut from my Woodland Mills portable sawmill. At the time I built this structure I considered many things but I did forget somethings that ended up creating some minor problems for me. Tune in today to see what those problems are and how I avoid them when building with green lumber. I'll talk about decking, siding, posts, fasteners and foundations on today's episode. Although the thought of building with green lumber can seem a bit scary, I'll show you exactly what to expect when doing so and prove that lumber doesn't haven't to be perfectly dry to build with if you do it right. I'll also show you what it's like to build a tiny house on a hill with no concrete foundation. Nothing here but some blocks on well drained soil and many many braces. Tune in to see how this has worked for me.

[@rhondajohnson2872]

Best explanation of many topics I've ever found on KZbin! Thank you so much! Beautiful place!

[@dansullivan1120]

I am glad to see your subscriber numbers going up each week. I encourage everyone watching smash those like and subscribe buttons so KZbin’s algorithm pushes Sandy’s vids to show up more on others screens.

[@sawingwithsandy]

Thanks Dan. Appreciate the support

[@Tat2Power]

Great video. You always answer my questions as I run into the issue. Learned a TON from this channel. Thanxx as always buddy!!

[@sawingwithsandy]

Glad to hear I was able to help out . Take care and happy sawing

[@Andrew_From_NB]

Thanks for the review Sandy! Great to see how the tiny house has made out over the years! Held up nicely that’s for sure! Appreciate all your tips! Andrew from NB :)

[@sawingwithsandy]

Thanks!

[@CL-pe4ll]

Love your channel. No BS. You don't fake anything. Love your videos

[@sawingwithsandy]

Thanks for watching C L’

[@nicksnextproject535]

I've seen the ardox nails around when growing up but never thought about the difference between them and a regular nail. I'll definitely consider then for building with green lumber.

[@Roadkill3120]

Thanks for this honest video, showing your little imperfections! This is the best way to learn!

[@joebutner8118]

Hey brother, I cannot tell you how much I enjoy your videos. I buy into everything you have said and agree with the foundation and building green on this little house. I like your thoughtful narrative. It is not annoying. I totally get it. I just purchased a HM-122. I am going to build shed over it. Then I am going to build a post and beam carriage garage on a slab. This is sooo much fun!

[@sawingwithsandy]

Great to hear Joe! Good to hear from folks like yourself. Sounds like a lot of good times coming up with that new mill. Happy sawing!

[@idahopotato5837]

I had a 120 year old home built the same way. No frost but intermittent wet runoff and earthquakes. Place was totally plumb when I bought it. What is nice is if it shifts you can jack it and shim it.

[@joelima3756]

I just love your videos keep up the great work 👍👍👍👍

[@chriscox6598]

Sandy The method I use for boards to minimize cupping is When the wood smiles so will you. When the wood frowns you do to. Hint look at the rings at the end of the board on the flat sawn lumber

[@sawingwithsandy]

Good way of putting it Chris

[@adrianalbritton8004]

The deck on my house was built with treated box store lumber that still had the twisting and cupping he had with wood.

[@chrispeters4405]

good stuff, thanks for posting

[@sawingwithsandy]

Thanks for checking out the video Chris

[@richardprice8136]

Another great video. QUESTION: How did the sliding door frame and windows hold up to the shrinkage?

[@bwillan]

Most timber frames are made from green lumber. The posts and beams do dry out over time and will shrink and crack a bit. If you mill your posts and beams to capture the pith in the dead center, it will dry evenly and minimize the drying stresses on the lumber. Even the kiln dried lumber from the big box hardware stores are still 20% moisture content or more. So do as Sandy said, butt them tight together and the will shrink to give you a gap. That bark down to get the crown is counter intuitive. One would think that the board would cup in the direction of the bark, since the tree was round to start with. As for the floating foundation, in some areas if you dig a hole for a post below your local frost line and sit it on a concrete block (round patio stone) and back fill it with dirt, it won't move.

[@spuriouseffect]

@bwillan Yeah, when you install deck boards from say Lowes, you always butt them together so when they dry you get a nice gap, but you put the crown up instead of down like he did. Strange. Wonder what the difference is? His are obviously cupping the opposite way. I've never seen that before. Could it have something to do with the treated boards? I've built multiple decks, but never with anything other than treated lumber.

[@sawingwithsandy]

That’s a good point about the pith in the centre. My trees are so small I’m just hoping for anything some days haha

[@sawingwithsandy]

Often this has to do with boards dried in a kiln like Lowe’s and mine dried in open air. Atleast that’s what I think the difference is

[@spuriouseffect]

@@sawingwithsandy Lowes wood, especially treated wood, shrinks up so much you end up with 1/4 inch gaps between boards. You have to pay a premium for kiln dried wood. Most Lowes wood is green and heavy. And if you put the crown down like you do, they cup. It's a mystery to me why it's the opposite of your wood. I'll figure it out when I get my mill this spring.

[@alexhaywood9706]

I just finished digging under a 1973 built structure with a boulder pier foundation system.

[@sawingwithsandy]

That’s good to know that other buildings have done well without the concrete foundations

[@olaflarsen9523]

You got me convinced, no green wood in my cabin build.

[@timbarry5080]

Great work, btw

[@sawingwithsandy]

Thanks Tim! Keep me updated with your build

[@cabotbluegill]

During the 80s it was a big deal to put 10 inch cardboard tubes below frost and fill them with cement for a base to build off was done for some buildings and porches and such every one i was involved with have failed and if expensive to repair you have what all these that i have repaired been converted to. Your way is so easy to level up if ever need be .

[@sawingwithsandy]

I think it should work well for this cabin. Hopefully no movement in the future

[@timesthree5757]

Most houses in the country side in the 1800's were floating. The rock house I live in was built in the 1890's with rough hewn green wood. The frame sits on rocks. Still a solid little 3 bed house.

[@sawingwithsandy]

Sounds like they knew what they were doing when they built your place

[@almoody7155]

If/when the ground shifts and begins to loosen the structure framing, use lag bolts for your bracing

[@luckyandy76]

Great video. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@sawingwithsandy]

Thanks for tuning in.

[@brucejackson8570]

I don't think frost will bother you, if you don't shovel around the house or saw mill shack. The snow will be deep enough to insulate the ground, and it won't freeze.

[@TaylorLivingston]

Do you have to worry about any mold build up in the walls while using green lumber? Thanks

[@CL-pe4ll]

Come to Cape Breton and help me with my first mill start up haha!

[@sawingwithsandy]

Beautiful area out there so that’s pretty tempting haha

[@paulsalvaterra]

U know green wood!

[@mathsturg9349]

Good video you have! Very helpful. I will do the same in about a month on my cabin using cedar 1" thick board. About trim I see some install the trim last over the siding and others like you trim first. Any reason for that? Any regret doing it first? Thanks for your help. I bought some SS nails just to make sure it will not rust

[@sawingwithsandy]

I just wanted to prevent that window trim from having really deep sills and so I decided to put the trim up first then siding around it

[@danielhenderson4422]

Siding looks great, about to do the same. Did you use 3/4x6 and overlap an inch??

[@sawingwithsandy]

Hi Daniel. If my memory serves me right those were the dimensions

[@Tat2Power]

Hey Sandy, how thick did you cut the siding? Looks great.

[@sawingwithsandy]

1”

[@RobertMOdell]

You'll go for a ride in a big earthquake, but the cement blocks will definitely protect your posts from ground moisture.

[@adamcaldwell63]

For someone that thinks he knows a lot about cupping just showed me he is not a carpenter. Any good carpenter knows a cup holds water and water rots wood. So if you want your boards to last long time always put with a frown to shed the water

[@vidili68]

Hi there No coffee today? Have a good day be safe god bless

[@sawingwithsandy]

I don’t remember a day I haven’t had a coffee in probably the last 10 years haha

[@mountainsasquatch13]

How many board feet did the cabin take to build?

[@sawingwithsandy]

I’m not too sure off the top of my head but I’ll try to get an estimate for ya next time mom out in the tiny house . Thanks for watching

[@buddyreed2623]

Looking back in time, at some point, there may be a need for an outhouse.

[@sawingwithsandy]

Great point!

[@brandontymkow1182]

12:32 was it a problem?

[@Cjnchef]

On pine what is drying time to get 50% moisture down. I have trees on the ground from storm damage for 60 days and will start cutting in the next 30 days

[@sawingwithsandy]

I bet 50% of the moisture is gone in the first few weeks if it’s a nice windy and dry summer

[@bossman6174]

The mice are going to love your tiny house. Did you get a building permit for that?

[@rojerhaydn]

Not using green, unstamped lumber he didn't. Your building inspector is going to look for the stamp indicating that it is kiln dried.

[@coreygillum12]

Did you treat your siding with anything? Water sealer? Stain? , Etc?

[@sawingwithsandy]

Hi Ricky, this building has no treatment on it. I find it lasts well as long as no water sits against the untreated would as would be the case with soil contact or a deck without a roof over it.

[@bogdanchugunov4374]

Just purchased 60 acres UP State NY full of yellow and black birch, hemlock, maple and beech 9"-23" diameter. I've been told non of such species could be used for construction of my further farm house . Same time people told me such species are very desirable for furniture makers. I got confused about why no one nearest sawmill is interested in my timber to buy. Can anybody is willing to share a secret how to market my timber for right money.

[@georgeprice9882]

When u make the lap siding what dimensions are u cutting. Thick side thin side width

[@sawingwithsandy]

Great question George. I cut the siding the same thickness all the way across just like a normal board. 1” in this case

[@georgeprice9882]

@@sawingwithsandy so u don’t use the siding attachment

[@sawingwithsandy]

I do use it now but at the time I didn’t use it

[@georgeprice9882]

@@sawingwithsandy so what Dimensions do you have when using the lap siding attachment

[@tlak]

Has he not built with box store wood. All the cracking checking, twisting, and splitting happens with the box store wood. I wood have face nailed wet lap siding.

[@georgeprice9882]

How much do you overlap

[@sawingwithsandy]

I kept a 4” reveal in this case if my memory serves me right

[@georgeprice9882]

@@sawingwithsandy 4” reveal on the board your covering. But how wide was the board to start with. 1/2”x6 with 4” reveal. Covering 2”. Or not covering up that much

[@basedbear1605]

Great video... can you make the next one without a fisheye lens? It makes it appear everything is warped.

[@sawingwithsandy]

I don’t own a fish eye lense. Just standard go pro.

[@basedbear1605]

@@sawingwithsandy Go Pros are fish eyes. Were you using your cell phone before or something, or have it on a different setting? I never noticed it till this video.

[@oakiewoodsman]

The super wide angle definitely made the posts look like rainbows. Thanks for the great content

[@jseif5844]

So do you live in the cabin if not you should build a big cabin that's what people are searching on KZbin for new builds.

[@donttread5414]

Was looking to use green wood logs as beams which would lay on top of stone pillars, then I would start the floor joists on top of that, and also use some green wood logs as beams supporting the second story floor. Id rather use wood logs for these pieces instead of store bought stuff but am concerned about movement it may cause.

[@truehealthnow]

Love your videos, but the fish eye lens really has a way of distorting things.

[@sawingwithsandy]

I don’t actually have a fish eye lens. Maybe the GoPro gives it that effect. Thanks for watching

[@Grunt49]

8 penny ring shank nails

[@joehuinker7009]

Never nail through the lap on lap siding. Dry or green nail just above..

[@sawingwithsandy]

Good tip . Thanks Joe

[@tomlives]

This whole video is lesson on why *not* to build with green lumber.

[@sawingwithsandy]

I’ve had great success building many structures with green lumber. Just have to follow a few important building practices to account for wood movement

[@tomlives]

@@sawingwithsandy Great results?

[@sawingwithsandy]

Yeah the buildings have turned out square, plumb and level and have maintained tight joints

[@1616katerst]

Hi Sandy. I do love your shows but so disagree with your bark down deck. Don’t make a decision on judging a few boards on your deck. Sunlight and moisture on the outside end of your deck boards can do strange things. Lay two or a hundred outside. Bark up bark down. Never when stickering lumber to air dry did we stack bark down. It will cup and hold water. Same with the countless decks I’ve built. Always crown/bark up. Sure you will get some weirdo boards and that includes pressure treated boards that won’t follow the norm. But don’t take as a reason to defy nature. 30 years experience tells a different story.

[@northerncaptain855]

Built an off grid 24 by 24 log cabin 12 years ago on well drained ground with floating posts in a similar brutally cold climate area. Worked out well, no noticeable shifting, doors and windows open/close without issue. So far so good.

[@sawingwithsandy]

That’s great to hear!

[@makingawesome8730]

Bark down to get a crown is counter intuitive from what I'd have thought, I'm glad you showed an example. I would have figured the opposite. My mill will be here soon, you have been a great source of knowledge in several areas

[@sawingwithsandy]

Enjoy the mill. You will love it!

[@idonwantella2824]

I use a lot of 5/4×6 pine fence boards that are "green" for fences, pig feeders, well/pump house, and other small things. I stopped using nails about 6 years ago. Torx head wood screws can be tightened as the wood shrinks and whatever I build can be taken apart without damaging the wood. The screws are a bit more expensive, but removing them does not damage the wood(unless you screw them in too deep) and 99.9% of them can be reused. I make various things like coffee and end tables, flags, address signs and boxes out of the recycled wood. I am in the process of researching saw mills and just watched your video about things to pay attention to when using the machine.

[@salimufari]

The cupping will nearly always show up opposite the arc of the growth rings. As they dry they shrink & the curl forms as the outer rings pull on the inner ones from that shrinkage. As for the frost heave I think the tiny house is so small & has so many posts the lift should be mostly even except maybe right at the center where the ground water would be least.

[@ironsales5669]

thank you for explaining the cupping, seemed opposite what I would have thought would be the effect but your explanation cleared that up. but while this seems to go hand in hand with Sandys explanation of the floor boards it does not match the way he seemed to describe how to put on siding?

[@danielmccraw6866]

I've had so called dried lumber wack out alot worse that that..especially treaded.. nice cabin man

[@Grizz270]

its still lookin good ..by the way ...tis old fart just learned somthing new again from ya on the bark side down for cuping ...never thought of that before ...you did nail the siding on the right way ...you blind nailed it ...and yes you probably could get away with some face nails now that it has dried but face nailing goes threw both boards and if its green when you hang it and face nail it the lap siding will split ...i seen many amatures make that mistake ...but the bark side in would definatly help like you said...onto yur post... i hate metal brackets that simpson makes and they dont prevent twisting ...what i like to do is cut a 2by4 for front and back of the beam and post 16 inches long roughly miter the bottom edge at a 45 degree for appearence and nail that onto the beam and post ...it provides the strength ya need for uplift and twisting and looks better then some cheep ugly grey simpson bracket ...ps.. i hope i aint coming across as some know it all ...cheers and happy sawing and building

[@sawingwithsandy]

You’re always welcome to share your experiences. I learn new things from good folks like yourself all the time. I’m going to keep that idea for my posts you mentioned. Thanks for sharing

[@BullfrogKid1234]

Z OH IIZZS ADD 70I8 AS O OB IO9 PO 99998 89IIO9O IOII9 9 89IIO9O IS 90S 9 89IIO9O A 8U 8 I 8888FEET 89IIO9O 90IXAA

[@Grizz270]

@@BullfrogKid1234 you ok ? did you over heat your brain ?

[@BullfrogKid1234]

Oh dear God, I hate my phone sometimes. My pocket likes to speak Klingon lol.

[@Grizz270]

@@BullfrogKid1234 lmbo i hear ya lol

[@Spiritodawolf]

Love how you show your errors and what the better way to do it is. You're passing on great knowledge. Love it.

[@CaptJohnsBar]

My whole garage is built with green lumber, never had any issues.

[@Donninator1]

how many years she been up?

[@likeadog7752]

You could use mobile home anchors to help hold it in place.

[@dper1112]

This is a really good explanation, and it's nice to see your cabin after a year. It was lovely then, and it's lovely now. Thanks!

[@sawingwithsandy]

Thanks appreciate that

[@jasper8092]

Southern ontario here. Just got my sawmill. Finding your videos great. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[@illumi-Nate]

When I lay decking(especially wet treated lumber) I rip a 1/4" deep kerf down the middle of the length of backside of boards = no cupping & a place the wood can move...always predrill my ends, & hand nail the entire deck for the best longest lasting job....old school.

[@sawingwithsandy]

I think that’s a great idea. I’ll have to remember that for the future. Thanks for passing that along

[@JayneCobb88]

Another foundation type that works crazy well vs frost and is very inexpensive. Pressure treated lumber laying lengthwise atop a base of 3/4” rock tamped down 2ft wide by 2ft deep by length of your beams. The rocks allow moisture to drain, keeps the lumber dry, minimizes frost heave, and disperses the weight of the home like a concrete foundation

[@timesthree5757]

But would be unavailable in hard.

[@mikechristensen9744]

I have used spiral nails in the past and they are great for not pulling out and such...but do cost quite a bit more than box nails. Something I have not heard mentioned in any of your videos or comments is a technique I have used for over 20 years to prevent the same thing as spiral nails do but using regular nails(box or common) instead. If you nail at a slight angle(maybe 10 degrees) and make it so that not all nails are at the same angle... have first nail at 10 degrees one direction, next nail in opposite direction or straight in, they end up pulling against each other and the wood will not be able to pull up or loosen. This especially applies to plywood/osb. I remember taking the decking off a roof once with a shovel and the ENTIRE sheet popped off in a complete piece....every nail was put in perpendicular. I tried the same to a piece of plywood I had nailed that had to be removed and it was completely destroyed by trying to pry it up as I had nailed using a slight angle with each nail. Have you ever tried this method of nailing?

[@sawingwithsandy]

Interesting idea. I haven’t heard of this being done before. I may have to give it a try

[@mikechristensen9744]

@@sawingwithsandy Early on in my carpentry career of 22 years(haven't been a carpenter for about 14 years...am a software developer now since that career ended back in 2006) a long time carpenter friend gave me this technique which I have used ever since...and have gone back to many projects years after completion and have never seen anything I have nailed come loose.

[@gary24752]

Definitely would not use thin undersized unreinforced cement sill blocks for foundation pads especially on a slope. You could have poured concrete pads and installed them over a hole filled with stone gravel to control the frost and pinned the columns to them with steel rod. You also need to isolate the wood columns from the concrete. You are trapping water below the columns and the end grain sucks up water causing rot. The deck would have been better since you milled your own lumber if you had used a Korean floor system. You have nothing for uplift including no tie downs. It is just foolish to spend that much money and time on the building and wimp out on basic structural requirements. You simply got lucky with the tornado and where it hit. They can be pretty directional depending on the storm.

[@justalittleoff-grid1180]

Awesome. I am literally about to mill beams and rafters for a cabin and was debating building green

[@StrongandFree]

Another great video. I am new to milling. This is jam packed full of information that will save time and lumber. Thanks for posting. I am new to your channel and happy to have found it. Keep up the great work.

[@sawingwithsandy]

Welcome to the channel! Glad you found it

[@Annon89]

So I’m not sure I really care about green lumber from my chainsaw mill vs hardware store lumber anymore. Cause all the things you are showing happens with all wood. And especially exterior wood. It shrinks it cracks it does all the things. Good review. Good to see what happens when you build with green lumber I’m going to be doing the same thing soon.

[@thelawdoc8029]

No. You will not eat your words. If you find freeze/heave issues, you simply put in a french drain around the cabin. Heave demands all three of the following: water, cold, and freezable soil. Deny any one and you are home free!

[@royramey5659]

We build with green lumber all the time. Thanks for video.

[@honestjason7854]

Twisting i thought happens when the heart of a tree is in the center of a board?

[@pauljelen2330]

Love the Tiny house! The cracks, twists and gaps are not that bad at all. The wood at the big name DIY lumber stores is just awful. Over the years the wood has been so twisted, spongy, warped, cracked, chipped and somewhat green. I think that's it's a result of mass production and poor quality control. I have spent hours many times in the big lumber stores trying to find a few straight and somewhat descent pieces. Because of so much bad lumber in the stores I bought myself a sawmill. Yes a Woodland Mills. Now I can have real 2x4's, etc. like I use to be able to buy.

[@sawingwithsandy]

I'm with ya on that Paul. It's tough paying top dollar for marginal wood at some lumber yards.

[@timbarry5080]

I think "bark up" or down is a tough call. If the deck is wet a lot then yes. But if it's getting cooked all the time with little rain then it goes the other direction

[@timbarry5080]

I'm building a small cabin. I'd rather just sit each corner on large stones but legally I'm not allow to.

[@jasonfitzgerald9799]

What would one suggest as a cost for this? Roughly in materials, not including your time...

[@CorMorse]

Bark down, get a crown. Awesome way to remember which way to install your boards, thanks!

[@sawingwithsandy]

Anytime. Thanks for tuning in

[@exotictones1054]

Love the tiny house. that's really cool.

[@3579rock]

Just the kind of info I was looking for. Silly question but, do you think that using screws instead of nails for the framing and such could reduce at least marginally the twisting or cupping of some of the pieces? Does that make any difference at all in the frame work? I'm an absolute novice in building cabins, and I'm planning on building my own pretty soon.

[@ripptydevibes2581]

It doesnt matter. Its more the placement of the fastener and you must place them as he demonstrates if you dont want everything to crack. Screws will not resist shrinkage but bolts where applicable, will

[@UncleDanBand64]

Great video sir!

[@patrickhooker5697]

It doesn't hurt here or here but rite along here

[@timbarry5080]

I don't think it's up to you to determine whether you are a "believable guy" or not.. lol.. just playing

[@sawingwithsandy]

Hahah true

[@blainecelestaine4543]

Everything you mentioned happens with lumberyard wood that is supposedly kiln dried

[@patmos7521]

Doesn't look much different than some of the lumber I get from lumber yards. I frame for a living and it's a pain with some of the material we get nowadays.

[@sawingwithsandy]

Sad when a lift of lumber gets dropped off on a job site and half of it is garbage

[@a1totalservices636]

I don't get it. I've had the same problems with wood bought from Lowes. Twisting, cupping and everything i in-between.

[@sawingwithsandy]

I'm wondering if the wood isn't totally dry form the box stores

[@greglautz8470]

How green are we talkin? Straight off the Saw Mill and onto the building or was there any air drying time whatsoever?

[@sawingwithsandy]

Some was air dried for a few weeks to two months and others were right from the tree to the mill to the building

[@greglautz8470]

@@sawingwithsandy Ill be doing some building in the near future on a property in West Virginia. I hope to mill some Lumber myself from the trees we cut down but will they will have several months of air-dry time before I be able to build with them. Hoping they will be dry enough to not twist and warp so much

[@rickhall8119]

I can't tell if his whole house is warped like a Tim Burton movie, or he's using a fish eye lense on his cellphone camera.... 🤔

[@sawingwithsandy]

It’s the go pro lense

[@csnocke5]

War paint

[@alexprokouchkine5673]

Thanks!

[@DHamDIY]

Awesome video man super helpful!

[@22574jason]

Great video! Thanks for sharing!👍🏼😃

[@sawingwithsandy]

Thanks for coming along for the tour Jason

[@auhmsoogood]

3 years later, how's that floating foundation treating you?

[@sawingwithsandy]

All good. Nothings moved

[@honumoorea873]

I built my shed with green wood, Douglas, and I got no problem.

[@sawingwithsandy]

Good to hear it’s last well

[@Norbingel]

dimensions of your tiny house? what do you use it for? I think it looks great!

[@sawingwithsandy]

It's approximately 10x10

[@georgeprice9882]

Is the mail that holds the second one also hitting the first one and so on

[@sawingwithsandy]

The nail just goes through the top of the first piece without touching any pieces under it

[@MelvinOhio]

4x4’s will twist from sunlight with treated limber also. I use 2x6’s or 6x6’s to limit the sunlight as much as possible.

[@charlescanham8453]

very nice straight forward information! as a matter of fact, I'm in central Florida, palm bay on east coast, its chilly here this 3rd week of November. not nearly as cold as where you are. great video's keep up good work..

[@tomas5650]

How do you fix the gaps on the interior flooring?

[@sawingwithsandy]

I just live with them

[@scottfranson4215]

using a real-life example to show you the long-term results. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[@doylerabjohn3435]

Love watching different building techniques. I am hurricane state we definitely use hurricane brackets here.

[@robertpronovost3839]

Nice video very informative.

[@sawingwithsandy]

Thanks Robert