Can You Use Green Wood In Timber Framing? - Part 1

[@ShelterInstitute]

Take Your First (FREE!) Step Into Timber Framing with our Online Mini Course - tinyurl.com/u4ty9nm We have taught thousands of ordinary people how to build their own timber frame structure, starting with raw timbers & ending with a beautiful 24' x 24' structure. Also check out our 5-day, in-person intensive Purely Post-And-Beam class - shelterinstitute.com/course_offerings

[@Chris-zm7kg]

This is what the Internet is for, a free exchange of information. Thank you sir.

[@ShelterInstitute]

Thank you for watching!

[@callmeishmael7452]

From an architect: loved this. Straight into the nub of the issue, no promotion, real fact dense content and a natural born teacher. Thank you sir.

[@MegaDavyk]

And he is awake to the way Congress works.

[@AnxiousCowboy]

He’s good with nub

[@junkiescumbag6550]

Damn right! That was the how the internet was apparently going to be, The information Superhighway, unfortunately it's been turned into the tech giants golden brick road to our enslavery and propaganda delivery system.

[@justinhale5693]

I love the commentary about the congressmen.

[@billmccaffrey1977]

On splitting during drying. The Japanese cut a thin groove down one side of a green timber, which greatly prevents warping ans splitting. Kiln drying kills the lignin (a key part of the cell structure), which makes the wood more brittle. I recommend a great book: "Understanding Wood" by R. Bruce Hoadley

[@DawsonTyson]

lol he said, "if you're a congressman" lol pew pew 😂

[@timgiles9413]

He speaks truth about Congressman :) LOL

[@redrock1996]

Love the comments,,, subtle reminders of who is the joker..👌👌👌

[@DavenH]

@Matteo Zaiden not extremely relevant you toaster

[@lanceroark6386]

“....that has taken billions from the pharmaceutical industry...”

[@tropicalco2339]

@@lanceroark6386 oh yeah don’t forget the war, chemical, and prison industry

[@hickerbilly345]

You sir are a legend.

[@damnthetorpedos1691]

Absolutely love the congressman jabs. You make me happy. Good lessons, thank you.

[@Mike-db1nn]

Wish I had a teacher like you in High School but I am 63 so we might have both been in HS in the 70's LOL. I have been a home builder in Tucson AZ for 40 years and am getting ready to build a timber frame in Montana using the sawmill I just ordered. Life long woodworker as well. Just wanted to tell you I learned so much from your videos, thanks for sharing your knowledge sir !!

[@apfelgurke-r7e]

Great information. It helps a lot if you can store your beams for the first couple of years, that is when most shrinkage, twisting and crowning happens. This will prevent most troubles and you don't need to wait 45 years.....

[@ShelterInstitute]

Thank you for watching!

[@scottc3165]

Now that was above and beyond the normal tutorial. I appreciate that A LOT. Thank you!

[@c.martin1016]

best video i have ever watched on youtube. period.

[@hwp69]

Hi Pat! It's good to see you teaching. I pray for you and yours frequently to continue being safe and sharing the wealth of knowledge entrusted to your family for generations to come.

[@josephlieberman3027]

Amen

[@georgetudhope]

I worked at a lumber mill back in the 1990's, we were Pacific Northwest cutting timbers from 4×4 up to 8×16. Only 2×4 dimensional was dried in the kiln. Timbers were cut green when they ran through the planer and then sprayed with anti-stain chemicals. If a load sat in the yard, it would be stained. We were running fir and hemlock. If you want stability look for heart centers going through the whole Timber

[@bobmoore5242]

Rare to see a man with time accrued knowledge and the eloquence to present it so well.

[@markmiles9581]

Very good information. I live in a log home that's 30+ yrs old, it's had shrinkage over the years, but far less than most because we have managed the moisture within the house.

[@jedmorris1092]

Very good video! Looking forward to part 2!

[@amandawilcox9638]

Awfully tempting...Thank you! Loved the cell & beam illustrations.

[@andrewpardell9701]

I totally love the way this guy presents the information and find this very valuable information as a new sawmill owner

[@Guy4UnderDog]

I remember seeing "shacks" in the Appalachians as a youngster that were made with green lumber. The rational for using green was that mostly hardwoods were available that were impossible to nail once dried! They were called "Tar Paper Shacks" because they were papered over because of the cracks opened up from shrinkage.

[@christopherfisher128]

Most of those were never meant to last either. They were supposed to be temporary housing for seasonal workers or miners.

[@carmineredd1198]

i remember one having a very low ceiling i thought was a child toy dollhouse i think it had 3 rooms

[@davidpotter3777]

Thanks for the knowledge that you shared your experience is priceless, my Grandmother's family used to be timber cruisers in the Fort Bragg Mendocino area, I got to live in the Redwoods growing up but it was in San Mateo county had some big Douglass firs there also. My Daddy built houses for a living and you sound like him the way you explain things. What a treasure you are ! God bless you and your family Aloha

[@leonardturner6659]

Such a great presentation with humour, knowledgeable and interesting to listen too

[@davidjordonmiller9686]

This was awesome, I’ve wondered about all these things. Thanks so much!

[@josephlieberman3027]

Thank you, your lesson greatly improved my vague understanding of the nature of lumber and it's condition as it relates to moisture loss and the ways to compensate for it's variable conditions now I will never look at any wood quite the same any more. Thanks again.

[@leontaylor3572]

I love when you throw in the tid bit comments about wealth and the congressman. I love it man. You are so right. 1 Timothy 6:10 Thank you for the video and your wisdom

[@Solidbuildingcorp]

Hey guys me and my crew are getting into timber framing from standard framing. Been a great decision so far! I wonder what you “seal” your Timbers with? We use a local rough sawn formula stain.

[@JakeAho]

He says in the video "heritage natural oils" with potentially other additives

[@mitchelllester9035]

Fantastic video. You’ve articulated this topic very well and have gone over lots of the little details. Thank you.

[@mutchmedia]

From Kingston, Ontario. Thank you for these recent videos, hoping one day to attend one of your workshops.

[@rogerbettencourt9654]

Always love the content. Thanks all.

[@calin7017]

Well, I'm just happy to find out that, unknowingly, I did something right with my timber. I cut it three years ago, made it into 6 x 6 and 2 x 6, and because I didn't have time to built my barn, I just store it the way you said. Last time I've checked (a day or two ago) there was very little twisting and cracks. Can't wait to start working the mortises and the tenons.

[@MollerFarm]

You now owe the government three years of back-inventory taxes

[@thoughtsfromathenasreality]

And why are we still cutting down trees to build houses when there are superior way to build houses, like Cobb houses, Straw Bale, Yurts, and Domes; to name a few. We should just be using timber as a basic frame, and filling in with other materials. We need our trees to give us oxygen on our earth! Common sense!

[@off6848]

@@thoughtsfromathenasreality none of those would hold up in the Louisiana delta where I’m from

[@aWomanFreed]

Don’t tell ur neighbors

[@aWomanFreed]

Athena C oh puhleeze. That’s the exact mindset they want u to have

[@OldGloryTreeCo]

Great video! My wife and I are in the design stages of our timber frame, and I love the way this was presented!

[@jdm11060]

I've just learned to be okay building with imperfect timbers. All these twists and warps are usually pretty minor, at least with eastern hemlock, which is what I use. Kilns, sealants, humidifiers, etc, no one timber framing hundreds of years ago had these things and their structures are still with us today. Relax, have a beer, and timberframe.

[@juantransportador]

HELLO from las Vegas Nevada, thank you for the information, GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY, stay safe.

[@juantransportador]

Thank you and be safe.

[@jerpetraitis6769]

Thanks for imparting your many years of experience. Great, informative video, well done!

[@Speedlaw2000]

Great job, Pat! Enjoyed the refresher! Miss you and all the great folks at Shelter! I need to make another pilgrimage from Arkansas to Maine to come visit! Thanks!

[@OldMotorcycleAdventures]

These videos are very interesting! My wife and I just took over her family's acreage in Lincoln county, we were surprised to learn you folks are so close by! I would love for our house to be timber frame, so we will be binging quite a few of your videos!

[@giantthoughts7885]

Freaking fantastic! Makes you realize just how much you DON'T know before beginning my first timber frame!

[@brandoncalliotte2132]

This dude is undeniably honest and legendary

[@Shogunersash]

You may never know how grateful I am.

[@ruffryder13]

Great video. Nice that you decided to give more info than "Wth else are we going to do?" :)

[@timschad5810]

Thank yo for sharing your wealth of knowledge and preserving this art form !!! Your videos are always extremely helpful

[@ShelterInstitute]

Thank you for watching! We use Heritage Natural Finishes products, their original finish for side grain and wax for all end grain. We sell both at sheltertools.com!

[@leftfootforward1040]

Here in the UK and the rest of Europe, we have oak timber frames that would have been built green, that are hundreds of years old and still going strong. Un housed t and m's. Still built like that today and still structurally sound.

[@TitiniusAndronicus]

The English oak is a massive construction advantage. The English should be aware and appreciative of where their power comes from.

[@thomasschafer7268]

😅😅but we don't build oak houses. We have KVH timber since 30 years.

[@leftfootforward1040]

@@thomasschafer7268 video topic, can you use green wood in timber framing. The answer is yes. Look up oak timber frame home uk and you'll get an idea of the work I do.

[@autonomous_collective]

Keep up the great work. Really appreciate the videos. Truly.

[@danimald.2407]

Best video on wood I've ever seen. Much respect.

[@North-wn6xz]

Love it!! Congress comments are spot on!!

[@therealsparkman]

Excellent instructions. I took a timber frame course four years ago, but they never got into the particulars about timbers drying. We were just told that if you plan on building a timber frame(s), that using Eastern White Pine is the most ideal due to its stability, as you pointed out. That being said, I built a 14'X20' timber frame starting in February of 2019 in the confines of my garage, and purchased all my timbers from a local saw mill where the wood was harvested in the fall. I got my timbers home and left them stacked on the trailer and removed one at a time as I notched each piece. Once each piece was completed, I did as you said, piled them off the ground with spacers and slackers and covering them with a tarp. What I found was as I started adding more timbers to the pile, I noticed that some of the timbers were getting mold spots and bluing that was occurring. Is there something that I did wrong in this process? I ended up sanding to clean up the mold then added a bleach water mix to neutralize the mold. In the end, everything went well and today I have a structure that is up and has external wall, but not completed. Thanks for this info. It will be good going forward. Cheers from Northern Ontario.

[@Rays_Bad_Decisions]

Stagnant air and high humidity lead to mold on your wood. It's good you addressed it quickly

[@Arcturusvanlasagna]

Beautiful, every single syllable was art, thanks Pat.

[@tincho679]

This is EXCELLENT!! Thanks!

[@robertarguello1115]

This classroom lecture was helpful. Thank you! 👍

[@danielgagne485]

I live in Brunswick. Drivin by many times. I had no idea who made this video until the end. Was actually thinking of you as i watched thinking i might want to visit. Imagine my suprise when i discovered who made this.

[@ShelterInstitute]

Hahaha that is awesome! Feel free to stop in anytime!

[@amyvanzandt6229]

Holy crap I so needed to see this we are going to harvest trees off our property to build this summer thank you so very much

[@jasonc3522]

You will be better off felling your timber in the winter after the trees naturally removed their moisture.

[@nwaldburger]

We had an exposed timber frame home in Switzerland and to keep the beams from splitting we had to put a water kettle on top of the fireplace.

[@johntupper1369]

looking forward to part 2

[@danharte6645]

Brilliant, I'm so grateful you can share these insights. Love from the British Isles

[@Chris-qf9qm]

I'm subscribing just because he doesn't like big government as much as me. Thank you for sharing your knowledge

[@dangreen6074]

Brilliant scientific explanation! What do you seal the green timber with?

[@Grunt49]

Thank you for sharing this.

[@CandiceWA]

Haa, I love the expression when he said “This is what happen when you drive that 2 x 4 to home.” Who is that congressman? Is that Mitch McConnell? Great video! Answers a lot of my questions and learned few things now. Thank you Pat! 👍🏻

[@David-fv7zg]

No it was Pelosi....or Shumer........wait, maybe it was AOC.

[@kathryntilley1072]

​@@David-fv7zgno wait, it's ALL of them!

[@goodfella3635]

What would happen if u torch/burn the green wood after it’s milled ? Would it help from drying to quickly and in return warp less?

[@Wudman]

This man grabbed my attention right away and kept me interested for the entire video

[@AnxiousCowboy]

You gotta crush

[@LeahMiPop]

I just found your videos and love your wealth of knowledge. Thanks for sharing what you know!

[@aragustin]

thank you so much for the videos, time and love. i want to ask, in a respectful manner, if the sound of his voice if because of wood dust?

[@pamelah6431]

You made my husband cheer with regard to the Senator-Pharma remarks. 😁

[@mathewmiletich5986]

I was coming here to support that comment too! hahaha

[@johnfitbyfaithnet]

Yes!

[@tonydoggett7627]

Older homes in Australia with eucalyptus hardwood bearers and joists were built green. You can’t drive a nail into dry Australian hardwood unless you pre drill.

[@craigbielsky115]

SAME WITH WHITE OAK ........

[@iandonchi1034]

The large country homes were built with the local hard wood species , light coloured messmate and brush box, red gum was extensively used also , well built framed and clad by multiple carpenters using oversized timbers , 4×2 studs 5×2 ceiling joists & 6x2 floor joists on 4x4 bearers .

[@jimdoyle8224]

And mortised into the top and bottom plate in order to prevent twisting, I have worked on many houses in a little old ex gold mining town called Braidwood in southern NSW. always amazing how well done and long lived those Hardwood walls are. messmate ash stringybark spottedgum, yellow and gray box for jambs and window frames, hard as hell.

[@michaelfarmer537]

You had me at the introduction! ❤

[@kenamsdell6741]

I love listening to you. You have so much knowledge.

[@jimwagnerclips]

Absolutely love the congressman jabs!

[@vincentjames1995]

Awesome video- thank you posting this!

[@ShelterInstitute]

Thank you for watching!

[@sethwatson8952]

I think the real problem with "Kiln Dried" lumber is that it's really not. I've cut into KD lumber that was still obviously wet inside. So, in the pack, it get's held straight. As soon as you buy it and take it home, it's not held straight anymore, and will warp within a few days. A solution is to build with it right away. If it's being held in place in a building, it'll warp less.

[@thoughtsfromathenasreality]

Makes sense!

[@Rays_Bad_Decisions]

I've tried air drying them in the garage in a stack to some success but you get shrinkage...

[@andrewfrodo2086]

Great info . So I took away you can use greenwood with several methods not for it to twist. Also the IRS is to blame due to inventory for not having more timber frame houses out there.

[@replyhere590]

The US IRS does not "tax" inventory. Granted it might not be possible to deduct the costs incurred in producing it until it is sold, but to say that the IRS "taxes" inventory is just not correct. Local governments might, but not here in VA; they only tax tools and equipment, generally. From your friendly retired CPA.

[@peterpulpitpounder]

Fascinating, and very educating. What a teacher.

[@nolawnnate5934]

I reallly enjoyed learning and the 'congressman' digressions--greetings from texas

[@michaelayers925]

Thank you! This was exactly the information I needed to hear today!

[@TheBearGrylz]

This was very informative thank you sir.

[@RenatSavi]

thx for informing the public

[@damianbergamaschi3180]

Every tree on my property just shuttered in fear. Signing up!

[@davidjenson4512]

@Jay Smith Yea. Very few trees have shutters. (This might be the work of a rouge spell checker)

[@hosoiarchives4858]

So; I will be able to cut down 30 Douglas Firs for a Post and Beam build. Do I mill the posts first and let them dry, or do I dry them and then mill them after how long? Thanks

[@jasonc3522]

If you are taking the timber from your own property and not in a hurry look into "moon wood". It's a method of girdling and then felling the trees at certain times of the year.

[@Lindholmer5k]

I got a burning question in regards to the splitting at around 5:40 in the video. If said timber is purpously cut on the top side, would that not controll and reduce the number of serious cracks to only the top side? So long as the timber only experience longditudal and vertical forces, would it not retain about "99%" of its strenght? Just genuinly curious, since i have no background in woodwork at all :)

[@ronalves9118]

Great info! But I could not hear what type of oil you use to treat the timbers. Would be be so kind to tell me what type of oil you use. Thank you Ron

[@glendonrhoades4716]

That was great. Thank you so much for sharing this information. The sort of things that would take a house or two to learn.

[@bigred8438]

In Australia House frames were always made from green Eucalyptus hardwood until the late 1960's. It was easy to work green and dried evenly and to an incredibly hard condition. Almost all framing now is pinus radiata from plantations and it is generally prefabbed off site and brought in, same with roof trusses. all stud spacing is closer than with hardwood because pine is so weak and soft when dry. We have been told that the cost to insure and replace our 1962 hardwood timber framed house would be twice what it would cost to make a pine framed house these days.

[@georgetudhope]

Sounds like the same as here in the states

[@honumoorea873]

Of course you can, I did my house with it and all is perfect, I used Douglas.

[@markfortin9857]

Loved the learning experience of this

[@jacobladder6165]

I just got done building a cabin for a family member completely out of green non dried hemlock. Put a roof on it and put Batten board siding on and let it sit for a year and you pretty much could not drive a nail through that if your life depended on it. It's not Timber framed but traditional framing but I guarantee you that structural will last 150 years with a little bit of maintenance. And with the money saved they were able to have me cover all of the walls and ceilings with tongue and groove white pine instead of piece of shit drywall.

[@BigHonkinGoose]

How has it held up? I've never even heard of hemlock besides that Greek philosopher drinking some to die.

[@Mountainrock70]

Had built a house 30 years ago with green pine cut from our land when the road was put in and house site cleared. The siding was 8” x 1.25” pine board and batten strip all green also. The first coarse of siding wAs hung horizontally, then 30# tar paper, then vertical boards and batten. This was in the Ozarks. House turned out great and 20 years later when we moved all fine.

[@rainmaker4469]

What do u use to seal the wood? And do u use it all over or just at parts? Thanks!!!

[@tomast9034]

old folks here used method called like "month wood". cut the tree just before spring leave it upside down at a slope and wait till the leaves come out. taht way most of the water goes to the fresh leaves and even branches.those are cut off. here we have a general rule every cm of wood means 1 year of natural drying.. like for a 15cm thick plank its 15y.

[@alwaysbetonflat7868]

Wish i could take the online class! However, the congressman took all my money in the last year. Greetings from 🇨🇦

[@bubbercakes528]

I know a guy who cut his own timber then built a barn out of it. It was a twisted mess after a while but with some bracing he made it strong. Still standing 30 years later.

[@CorySlykerman]

Masterclass. Thank you!

[@robboone4367]

Sooo informative!

[@scottcroft89]

Saying, "You would have to be a congressman that has taken billions from the pharmaceutical companies in order to have enough money to do this properly" would have been enough alone to earn this video a "thumbs up"; but thank you too for the great information.

[@jonathankerner2094]

Thank you for the very informative lesson. I have hemlock available in my area at my local mill.

[@middleway1885]

Thanks for the great info! Cheers!

[@JayCWhiteCloud]

Hi Pat...Overall I loved this video, and miss being near SI. I do have a few contentions to share... ???...Wood is not dried by air because inventory is taxed...??? That simply is not true here in America (fine woods) nor globally. While inventory is not directly taxable, it is used to calculate a business's cost of goods sold which is completely different nor does this have anything to do with either commercial nor DIYer timber framing... ???..." you certainly don't ever want your wood to get wet in addition to the wetness of being green"...??? One may wish to "air dry" a timber to some degree (and in some cases or for some elements of a timber frame it is true.) However, that is simply traditionally not the practice globally in the craft of timber framing, especially at the "folk" level of the craft now or historically. As stated before Timberwrights want to control rapid drying as much as possible and retard the process as greatly as they can so that the wood dries in situ within the frame, as is often the case in most elements of "green woodworking" which timber framing is part of. Wood, if stacked as suggested, is done in a cool shaded area...WITHOUT MUCH WIND...or direct sun. A barn/shed is optimal if a certain degree of drying is wanted for a given species of timber. Often, when possible logs/cants were stored underwater to allow the bolts/cants to "rest" and the longer this could be done the more "relaxed" and stable the timber/lumber would be and thus more stable the frame... And please... let's discontinue the constant use of plastic!!! This planet does not need more of it or its use, nor is it needed. The mitigation of ground moisture is marginal at best in a well-stacked bunk of timber/lumber. If there is a real issue with ground moisture in a given area, then do the proper thing and move the stack to another location, move it higher, or gley the area properly before stacking...

[@Mastinox803]

I LOVE his congressman jabs.

[@rogerbettencourt9654]

I have always loved the IRS, I didn’t know this information about inventory, now I have one more reason to love our overreaching government.

[@paftaf]

Our government and taxes are the price we pay for civilization. I wish y’all whiners could go live in a place where there’s no real government and no taxes. You would understand and appreciate our government.

[@rogerbettencourt9654]

@@paftaf , I find it interesting that you don’t know the first thing about me, proceed to call me names and then do a poor job of trying to explain why we have taxes. I never said anything about no taxes and no government, did you miss the part where I mentioned my dislike of how our government is overreaching, furthermore my tax dollars are not all staying in this country so please do your homework before you try to educate someone else.I hope you have a good day though and God bless you.

[@paftaf]

@@rogerbettencourt9654 The words you use are the same words used by the QAnon and trumpanzees. I sure hope you’re not one of them. I know I’m not PC, I tend to be very direct and honest. Here, my message is “please be aware that when you use those words you seem to associate yourself with extremists”. Don’t blame the messenger.

[@rogerbettencourt9654]

@@paftaf , again you know nothing about me and continue with name calling me and oddly enough labeling me. Did you decide not to try to have a discussion and just continue with your, apparently, normal fashion of speaking down towards those you perceive you disagree with. I personally don’t know anything about you or your beliefs with the exception being you disregarded my statement entirely and made accusations. Interesting.

[@paftaf]

@@rogerbettencourt9654 If you’re associated with domestic terrorists, then I would like you to please stop communicating with me. If you ever held a confederate flag, or voted for a republican who is associated with trump and supported the attack on the Capitol, then please stop. I don’t want to engage with people like you. Goodbye.

[@jodywhitehead9173]

Re: green timber. 1) What about cutting your timbers larger, air drying for 12 months with ends sealed, then resawing to final dimension and applying the coating to slow drying in situ? Specifically with spruce or hemlock. 2) vs air drying stacked covered peeled logs for 12 months with ends sealed and milling directly prior to shaping the timbers?

[@ShelterInstitute]

Hi Jody-the number 2 option will probably yield straighter timbers because leaving the log whole while drying tends to keep internal forces in check that will distort a beam after being sawn from a log. The downside is that it will take longer to dry; figure 2" per year for getting to equilibrium moisture content. Sealing the ends is always a good idea and yields a good ROI interms of the quality of the final timbers.

[@jeremyscott6641]

Wow very informative thank you for all the tips.

[@samuniverse2]

Fascinating.

[@EtreTocsin]

What do you think of the Japanese technique of scorching the outside of timber? What would that do to the cells?