Tips on choosing your first kanna (Japanese plane) part 2

In this little series I show you what to look for in choosing your first kanna and also give you some recommendations.
This part covers the blade and dai.

[@sumokun]

Back in the day there were iron shops and they had different grades available. The stuff with stripes were most likely sold to blacksmiths making temple fittings etc because as long as the iron could be worked, the stripes were not a problem and the extra hardness maybe was beneficial because of the strength. The kanna makers however likely requested the stripe free stuff for ease of sharpening.

[@pauldrowns7270]

The most concise information I've come across. Thank you!

[@sumokun]

Thanks! Glad it helped.

[@iplywood]

Great series, really enjoyed it. I'm just catching up with your videos at the moment, haven't been able to watch much lately.

[@sumokun]

Thanks for the clarification. I was running out of space in the comments so I didn't expand on it but yes, Japanese swords are laminated but in a completely different way and for a very different reason as you say. There is only 1 kanna blade that I have seen openly advertised as being "forged 3 times". That is Yamaguchi-san's Gouki plane. Tsunesaburo's old blue steel might also be forged multiple times but I'm not sure. I think that it is probably quite common in higher end planes.

[@sumokun]

Thanks for watching! Steel in vintage kanna is generally good but its hard to make a blanket statement compared to modern stuff. I don't see many bad kanna on the used market so they are probably a safer bet compared to cheaper modern ones. For walnut I would recommend any simple carbon steel like white steel or standard Swedish. Blue type steels would also be good. I prefer to sharpen more often than to work with a duller blade for finishing so HSS types are out. Stick with white and blue :)

[@sumokun]

No problem. As I said any cracks are probably not good but small black specs on the weld line are no problem. Good luck!

[@Drainolordofsteves]

The lines in the iron for the plane blade are slag lines, its a visual effect from honing the blade. They use wrought iron in most blades, and ones without the slag lines are usually mild steel or very refined wrought iron.

[@soundtracks6656]

Very good videos, thank you Sumokun 👍

[@sumokun]

If you want a beginner plane and you are working cherry (which is relatively easy to plane), I'd take a look at the standard Ishihisa 60mm. White steel is a good choice and although its a little expensive its reasonably priced. I say 60mm because its generally easier for a beginner kanna user to handle and its a handy size to have. If you feel up for it a 70mm would be good for smoothing things like table tops and larger panels. Its harder to pull though and needs a little more care in setup.

[@andyryalls]

I can't wait for you to do more videos can you do some on conditioning and tuning your video has been very interesting thank you

[@sumokun]

Yep still reading comments ;) Thanks for watching. It depends on how big the little gaps are. Small spots of black "stuff"m like 1mm or so is fine although larger patches are not so good. Generally it means that the weld was not perfect. The blade won't fall apart on you but its an indication of a slightly lesser quality blade I think.

[@hicottn]

Excellent information and well organized! Thank you! Any suggestions on steel would be helpful. Is the steel in vintage kanna worth the trouble or is one always sharpening them as compared to modern stuff? I dislike hard to sharpen steel but I work in walnut. I despise sharpening gummy steels. Lots of confusing info out there. Suggestions on the steels with the best performance relative the sharpening effort is appreciated! Super blue, swedish carbon steel, and HAP-40 sound good. ???

[@sumokun]

Glad I could help :)

[@blueice013]

Hope you are still monitoring comments! Really enjoyed this series, and the tune up series. A question: you pointed out the lamination line between the hard and soft steel. I have seen irons for auction where there are some small gaps between the laminations. Do these indicate the blade is de-laminating, or are they acceptable? Thanks!

[@sumokun]

Thanks for watching. For making thin marquetry sheets, you will want a kanna that can cut as wide as the sheet you need. Generally they are cut in 1 pass. 40 degrees seems like a standard blade angle. The blade itself shouldn't matter much but I would recommend a plain carbon steel type blade like white paper steel. The dai would best be made of white kashi although you can use alternative woods, or even laminates. I think setup would be more important that the materials used in the kanna.

[@Edwood-kg5tg]

Thanks for your informative videos. I' am interested in marquetry and thinking about getting a Japanese kanna in order to get the thin sheets called Duku. Any suggestion as to what to get as far as kanna size, 40 or 45 degree ? , type of blade, wood block, etc. Please, keep shearing your videos. Thanks in advance.

[@sumokun]

Unfortunately youtube doesn't allow links in comments it seems. Suppliers in the West are pretty easy to find. For Europe I think the best bet is "Dieter Schmid's Fine Tools". In the US there are a whole bunch of suppliers like "japanwoodworker" and "hidatool".

[@jeanpascalgiraldi1140]

Hi Sumokun. Thank you for all the details you let us know, i hardly found other description wich such precision. I start having interest about japanese joinery and i have some questions: 1)wich kanna should i use to plane a rought peace of wood and make it flat and squared ? What's the équivalent of an occidental jointer plane ? 2)which kanna or specials settings should i use to have a perfect marbled finition on difficults wood (with changing fiber by example, knots and hardwoods). Maybe you could make a video about appropriates angles and settings depending of situations ? A last thing, i saw you both use japanese and occidental plane, maybe you could let us know about respective limits and skills ?

[@sumokun]

Hi, 1) The Japanese traditionally just used a standard smoother sized plane but set up with a wide mouth and aggressive cut. These were usually worn out smoothers. There are also jointer planes which are more for long and narrow pieces rather than wide and flat. 2) For figured woods, you will need a very finely set smoother. Make it take a very fine cut to minimise tearout. You will also need to set the chipbreaker very close to the blade edge to combat tearout. The mouth fineness should also be very fine but this is not as important as the other 2 points.Finally try and plane with the grain as much as possible and keep the blade extremely sharp. Taking a very light cut with a very sharp blade is the key. As a last resort, you can increase the blade angle by either cutting a new body or putting a small back bevel on the blade. You lose some finish quality doing this but it helps a lot. I would love to do more videos at some point however I just don't have time at the moment. As for Japanese vs Western planes, I find Japanese planes can give a better finish. They are much more difficult to use however the rewards make it worthwhile. Western planes are very good at dealing with tricky grain and to be honest, they usually give acceptable results. They are easy to set up and maintain so for a beginner I think they are more useful. Once you see what a Japanese plane can do with some softwood though it is hard to go back. The level of polish is unreal in some cases. I still use Western planes regularly but I do try and use Japanese planes whenever I can simply because they provide excellent results and are a pleasure to use when set up correctly.

[@jeanpascalgiraldi1140]

@@sumokun Thank you to take time to answer. It helps a lot.

[@jeanpascalgiraldi1140]

@@sumokun hi, Me again, i'm still trying to understand japanese woodworking and have some other questions. It's not about this video subject but i ask you anyway because you have been the one to answer my last question. So, it's about planes sharpening. What is exactly a kanaban ? I watch craftmen use it to hone the back of the blade, but... 1)why don't they use a honing stone instead of ? Like a #8000grit or more 2) can i use any dead flat steel plate (like the back of an Atoma diamond plate by example) or a kanaban required something special that no other steel plate could do ? 3) can i use the kanaban without powder? 4) can use it to flatten waterstones ?

[@blueice013]

Thanks! Sorry for the double posting. I'm a noob at KZbin so I thought there hadn't been any comments for six months. I'm going to place a bid on that blade. I've paid more for nick-knacks lying about the house, and this one might actually be useful!

[@sumokun]

Katana use a completely different process for forging than kanna. Kanna are laminated where katana are not. I'm not an expert on wrought iron but Yamamoto-san says that the stripes are an indication of residual carbon in the steel. Wrought iron was not folded (afaik) and just shaped into bars or something after being smelted/poured or whatever. The kanna maker then takes that iron and pounds it to the right shape for a blade. There are videos of kanna makers doing this on the internet.

[@sumokun]

Hi, it depends a lot on where you are but the best bet is to buy online or from an auction. KZbin doesn't allow links in comments but there are a few suggestions for places to buy planes in the comments below.

[@sumokun]

Hi, thanks for watching. I actually plan on doing a tuning/setting up video next so stay tuned ;)

[@bmargolas]

Hello - I just received through family about 10 Japanese hand planes and have been looking around trying to learn how to use them. One question that I keep coming back to that I don't see answered is why would you need more than a couple of these in the same size range? I understand that having one sharpened and ready if one goes dull is good, but are there other reasons to have multiple similarly sized planes? Many thanks in advance!

[@sumokun]

Benjamin Rice Hi, having multiple planes in the same size is a personal thing and different people have different reasons for doing so but common reasons are for efficiency, as you say, and another reason is to set them up at different levels of cut. Some can be set for a rougher cut and some for a finer cut. Generally speaking you don't want to use the same plane you use for rough work as you do for fine finishing work since the mouth size could be a problem and also the blade profile is different, not to mention the constant need to sharpen after a rough cut. Then there is the issue of the bedding angle. You can set up multiple planes with different bedding angles to work with soft and hard woods etc. More reasons could be that the user just feels that some steels work better on some woods than others. A common thought is that White steels or plain carbon steels produce a better finish on soft woods. Then there is the user's preference for how the steel in the plane feels as it takes a shaving on different woods. The list is almost endless and once you start combining all these variables, the number of planes you have, even in just a single size, can explode.

[@bmargolas]

Sumokun Thank you!

[@sumokun]

Thanks for watching :) I've also been kinda busy lately so there isn't much new stuff, but I plan on doing a bunch of new videos sometime soonish.

[@GoldenBuds420]

Katana are laminated. Soft cire harder skin. But made from tamahagane

[@aaronmadritsch]

G'day Sumokun! I was wondering if i could get some advice from you. I am looking to buy my first kanna, although not looking for something cheap as i already have quite a good experience with sharpening and tuning. I have a set of waterstones (1000 through to 12000) which i sharpen my chisels on and am familiar with the "tapping out process" and most things in regards to restoring, maintaining and adjusting tools (most of which i learnt from you) so i feel as if i would be capable of starting off a little more advanced in regards to my first kanna. This is the company i would like to buy from, www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=339_514_515 Can you make any suggestions for me? Price is not really an issue either. Thanks mate, love your videos, super informative.

[@sumokun]

Hi, as a first kanna I think you should go for something that is not flashy and something that is just well made. You mention money being of little concern but I would recommend that you not just spring for a really expensive kanna in the beginning. Kanna are quite peculiar tools and you may find that you don't like how they handle or work etc. They also lose their resale value very quickly so if you decide you don't like kannas, you will be out a good chunk of the price you paid. I am not sure what shops you have available to you where you live but TFJ is generally not my first recommendation when people ask. The main reason is that they only have Tsunesaburo planes and the owner (Stu) does not seem as knowledgable as I would expect from someone that specialises in selling Japanese tools. My thoughts on Tsunesaburo planes is well documented in my other comments on KZbin but the short of it is that they don't provide anything special and they are quite generic. For a similar price, you can get a kanna that has more to offer and be more satisfying to own. Tsunesaburo kanna work fine but I just think they lack that extra special something. If you are set on purchasing from TFJ, I would ask Stu to see what he recommends in your situation but I would recommend something that has a basic steel like Blue #1 or #2, wrought iron back, laminated chipbreaker, and be supplied in a named dai. Tsunesaburo dai are cut in house and I think they fall a little short of the quality you can get from the main dai makers like Nashiya, Nimura or Kokichiya in terms of both wood selection and cut quality. In your case, since you want new and want something higher quality, I would recommend a budget in the 30-40k yen range. This will get you a lifetime quality kanna but it will be specialised for fine finishing so don't waste it on something like crude flattenning tasks. For those tasks, you would be better off getting a cheaper kanna, unless you are rolling in cash in which case, you can go for another nice one ;) By the way, have you tried trawling online auctions? Sometimes cheap NOS kanna pop up there and they can be of good quality. To be honest I think quality NOS or lightly used is the way to go these days since all current manufacturers have upped their prices but I understand some people just like having brand new and that's fine. Anyway, if you have any further questions feel free to ask and I'd be happy to reply :)

[@aaronmadritsch]

Thanks for the thorough reply mate, thats really appreciated! I am not set on purchasing from TFJ, i just found the info they had quite extensive and seemed quite reasonably priced. Where would you recommend i purchase from, or maybe you could send me a link to a kanna in that price range that you think would suit me? i was thinking of getting a cheapish kanna for flattening tasks and a nicer one for fine finishing like you mentioned. Any advice you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Also i would love to see a progress video of the workbench you are working on! The drill bit video you last uploaded has me curious to see what the whole thing looks like!

[@sumokun]

I live in Japan so obviously the choice I have is wider than overseas so as a result I haven't looked into what is available in the US or Europe for example. One place that I found a while ago that was overpriced but not as much as some of the places in the US, was Fine Tools in Germany. If you don't live in Europe, then you will also save a chunk of cash on VAT so the deal becomes better. My first choice is of course going to be buying from Japan though but I am not sure which shops, if any, ship overseas since I haven't had the need to use that service. I mean, if you were really desperate I could go and get one and ship it to you. For a cheap flattening kanna, I would just get a used one and clean it up. Being second hand doesn't mean it has to be low quality. This way you will save a ton of money and still have a good tool. If you think about it, if you get a new kanna, you will be opening up the mouth anyway so you might as well get a kanna that has a worn mouth and you won't need to open it any more. Going new for a flattening kanna is also going to be a bit expensive because even the lowest quality kanna that I would consider of good quality these days goes for quite a lot of money. My bench actually came into a disaster a couple of months ago and it basically self destructed. So now I am in the process of making a new top. Its not as shiny as the last one but I think it will be easier to maintain and also stay flatter. I recently went freelance so now sorting all that out is taking up most of my time but I should have some videos in the future. As usual its just a constant battle with all of my other responsibilities :p

[@aaronmadritsch]

Sumokun Sumokun sorry I should have said, I live in Australia. If you were to find a good quality Kanna at the 30-40k yen and ship it to me that would be amazing, I would obviously compensate you for your troubles! My email is [e-mail] if you could send me an email so we.could work out payment etc that would be fantastic. Also I have noticed that you have quite a lot of kannas, so if you have a poor quality one that would be good for flattening that you would be happy to sell to me I would be happy to pay you for that as well? Sorry to hear about the workbench! It's a real pain when stuff like that happens.

Hi Sumokun. Thanks for making these videos - very helpful! I'm looking to buy my first kanna, to learn to set it up. The market isn't very big in Denmark, and I'm a complete beginner with these planes - but I was able to find this: i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qZkAAOSwm9tZ1OJU/s-l1600.jpg . Bought in a toolshop in Tokyo, never used and sold for approx. $ 90. Can you tell if it's a good brand/maker and worth the money? :-) Thanks again!

[@sumokun]

Hi there, glad you found the videos helpful. The plane in your link is not a good plane for a beginner. It is a lower quality plane and it might look tempting because it is clean and shiny but you will be disappointed in it because these types of plane are invariably poorly made and the finish of the blade and dai make tuning them up a frustrating experience. If you are going to put that amount of time and effort into tuning up a kanna, I would just go for a kanna in poorer condition but one that is better made. You will get better steel in the blade and once set up properly, it will be easy to use. It really depends on your budget but maybe try looking at online shops in Europe and even auctions from overseas will usually turn up some options. Good luck hunting and let me know if you have any more questions :)

[@ZakarooNetwork]

I like your teachings. I suspect though, that your Red Oak Dai is a fake. Scribe your name on the top and see what color is deep in wood. I build guitars and stain with traditional earth pigments. I do love my Keizaburo Blue Steel. Thanks...

[@sumokun]

Thanks for watching! I've seen a few real red oak dai and all of them look different. The big difference from fake red oak dai is that they are generally much denser and have a finer pore structure. I've also heard of people steaming white oak to emulate the slight reddish colour of real red oak so its actually a complete mess on the marketplace regarding who you can trust. That plane is one of over 100 that I have that are in the queue to get tuned up but I'll try and take a few chunks of wood off the dai to check out what colour the original fresh wood is and get back to you. I'm also into guitar making although I still have a lot to learn. Its good to hear that you are liking Keizaburo planes too :)

[@sumokun]

Hi there again! So I just shaved the back of the dai in question around and the raw wood is definitely a darkish red oak colour. It definitely not white. I shaved the top edge round so I removed quite a bit of material (over 1mm thick in places). I'm about 90% sure its the real red oak. Its definitely not white oak and the pore structure and density basically rule out the fake stuff. The kanna itself was actually bought from a retired miya-daiku and he was the guy that told me it was the real stuff. I can take some pictures and send them to you if you want. Just PM me with your address or something. Thanks!

[@MrAjmorley1]

Hi I have been looking at your videos. Trying to work out the best plane to buy. I'm in the UK and the best place to buy a plane seems this website. www.japanwoodworker.com/default.aspx I was just wondering if you could advise me on the Kanna I should buy if any from this site? Thanks.

[@sumokun]

+Alex Morley Hi, thanks for watching. From that site, I would recommend the Tesshinsai planes made by Yamamoto-san. They're marked up in price compared to over here (to be expected) but they are solid performers and you will most likely not grow out of it. I had a look at the other planes but the information on them is rather generic and there are no detailed photos etc so I am a bit suspicious of the shop in general. The price of the Tesshinsai planes are not too bad though and Yamamoto-san makes good planes so if it fits your budget I would probably go for one. The Tesshinsai plane is a well balanced plane and is a solid performer which has all the features of a good kanna.