Tithing isn’t biblical and is used to manipulate people

[@laniebug7265]

This is why I love my church. Every time I’ve asked how much I should give the answer is “give anything between $0 and what you can afford without hurting your needs.” So there were many years I gave 0 but gave my time also. It incrementally got higher based on my income and situation. I have taken many people into my home and supported them financially. My church knew and supported me. As it should be.

[@johnalexir7634]

I wish all churches were like this!

[@chernobyl169]

Any Biblical scholar can tell you that the Bible doesn't tell you to tithe, but it does tell you to pay your taxes

[@Dr_Gonzo_the_great]

If someone told me now I'd get $100 for every $10 invested I would assume it was a pyramid scheme. Alas, I also heard this growing up and gave them all my lawn mowing and babysitting money 😢

[@Uriel238]

What I remember about the _whatever you give you will get ten-fold_ was that it comes back _in heaven_ so it's not like prosperity magic where you're trying to appease spirits for earthly prosperity, but for after you die. And if you don't believe in the afterlife (and there's a lot of evidence against such a thing), then it's a non-product.

[@zoyadulzura7490]

The preachers who claim that you'll get something back ten-fold in some short-term way or before the end should face legal consequences. It's despicable what they do, draining vulnerable people of their savings.

[@brendalg4]

how is there any evidence for or against the afterlife? We have no way to prove it. There are people that say they went to heaven... That's all most people hear of. But there's also people that say they went to hell. But they could say whatever they wanted because we can't prove anything.

[@zoyadulzura7490]

@@brendalg4 It looks like you're replying to the wrong person.

[@brendalg4]

@@zoyadulzura7490 sorry about that

[@johngregory4801]

I used to believe and teach this back in the late 80's-early 90's. Then in '95, I set out to PROVE that tithing was a NT command by reading from Acts through Revelation. Oddly enough, the ONLY TIME the tithe is spoken of in any of those books is in Hebrews 7, where Paul is explaining through the story of Abraham giving a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedek how wonderful it is that Jesus is "a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek". All giving is to be voluntary, the amount being what the giver can do cheerfully. (2 Cor 8-9)

[@SunnyAquamarine2]

Good for you being a skeptic and a pastor! I'm a single mom of a teenage boy. I can't even afford car insurance. If I have to break the law everyday going to work, I'm quite certain God, who provides for widows and orphans, does NOT need or want me to tithe.

[@skeptic.pastor]

You are 100% right! And you are being a good mom. Really. When he grows up, your example will be a huge blessing and power in his life.

[@brendalg4]

I really don't think God wants you to break the law to go to work. You could take the bus or get a ride.

[@RahRan123]

But how are they going to buy their private jets?

[@johnalexir7634]

My favorite is when they say not only should it be 10%, but of gross, not net. So they're trying to take a bigger cut by calculating it on the full amount the government has already taken THEIR cut from. What a racket.

[@skeptic.pastor]

OMG.. yes. I have heard so many times, "Do you want to be blessed on the ross or the net?"

[@pamhemminger7794]

Remember how happy Jesus was with the poor widow? Who gave everything? We are called to give and called to trust.

[@skeptic.pastor]

Yeah. But that story is not about getting poor people to give to the church instead of buy clothes for their children. It's about people getting distracted by the large gifts of rich people. As long as we can agree on that and that it should never be used to ask peoeple to give MORE especially when they can't afford it, we're on the same page.

[@pamhemminger7794]

@@skeptic.pastor But isn't the point to trust? I'm not for feeding luxury to big church pastors at all. But when we give more than we have we put ourselves in a position of trust and submission....isn't that important?

[@tshavahcharoensaprungrojew2384]

The scheme of the churches ( Pastors getting rich) I left the church 10 years ago and I go to help people who are in need and God bless me more than I used to be in church.

[@skeptic.pastor]

I feel you, and I am so sorry you had to go through that, but so glad you were able to get out!

[@911tbf]

We married in 1983. We bought a house, we sent both our kids to university. We drove old cars. We never ran out of food. We did give to the church but never 10%. It was what we could afford to give without going broke. Then I asked the church for some of the money back so we could send our kids to university. Of course they said no. And of course I stopped giving. All this to say God loved me and still blesses us today. Oh by the way, I wasn’t going to send my wife to work so the church would survive I believe that would be using my wife to support another man, a pastor

[@CraftHarlot]

I no longer attend a megachurch near me whose pastor said that if we give, we'll get back far more - giving to the church was supposed to equate to financial prosperity. And he held himself up as the example, wearing $150 shirts and driving an $80,000 truck, living in a $1.5 million dollar home.

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

I grew up going to a very different megachurch probably. I remember sometimes we'd go to the church and get a box of food. I may be an anti-theist now, but I do remember that sometimes we only got to eat because of the church. It's frustrating to see christians who actually try to follow christ lump themselves with the religious fanatics I vow to oppose.

[@johnalexir7634]

It amazes me that this con still works. Has anyone REALLY gotten back more by giving more, especially when it's under some form of pressure? Maybe it happens -but that would be explainable by laws of chance. I guess maybe what the mega church pastor like the you mentioned really meant was "when you give, I'll get back more".

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

I grew up going to a church that passed around the collection plate but I don't recall them ever saying an amount. And we couldn't put money in because we had to go to the church to get boxes of food. My parents were getting assistance from fellow churchgoers in order to pay our rent. I remember reading verses of the widow who gave all she had and Jesus saying she gave more than all the rich people who gave what they wouldn't miss. And I didn't see that as a story talking about money, because Jesus rarely focused on money itself, he was often talking about the deeper meaning behind actions. It was always implied that The religious people of his day often either completely missed the deeper meaning behind their beliefs in favor of tradition, or purposely twisted them to suit their own needs. We see that a lot today. That's why I consider myself an anti-theist now. I'm not against the good Christians who just want to have their faith. But I am against the ones who want to rule this country, who weaponize the faith of the gullible and desperate.

[@corrinemeshelski1101]

I was a kid when i went to Catholic Church, but i remember our church was the kind to say only give what you can and giving none is ok or whatever. But they would pass a basket all around at the end of service. And even at 8 years old i could tell it was super awkward to pass and put in nothing. Im sure those people felt super judged and caused others to put in what they couldn't.

[@Monorail-Beyond-the-Veil]

Gordon Robertson / 700 Club does the same thing. Instead of asking viewers to GIVE, he always uses the word "tithe" to manipulate through fear and guilt! (Gordon is reportedly worth $50 million.) Tithing was NEVER about money, it was about crops and cattle. So tithing is NOT for believers today.

[@skeptic.pastor]

Yes. I have seen it.

[@user-ff4zd7lh3q]

Muslims pay zakat but Quran states you can’t give it to the mosques. It has to go direct to people in need

[@zoyadulzura7490]

That's much better than the "prosperity magic" "Christians", the money going back to the community where it is needed. That is much more Jesus like.

[@ZachariahSethHarris-l2r]

New subscriber here. Good biblical teaching is weirdly hard to find. Keep it up, Pastor.

[@Sam-m6o3j]

I don’t care if it’s biblical or not. No man-made scripture will convince me that it’s the voice of God.

[@JamesDavis-ps6yy]

I always heard the argument used by Paul, that the worker is worthy of his wages

[@tinkergnomad]

Years ago, before I knew better, I went to a church "food bank," that wasn't going to let me have the expired food unless I said the weird evangelical prayer (I think it's the "sinner's prayer," or something) that is also, not in the Bible. It's the manipulation for me. That clear, and deliberate withholding of resources to engender a sense of obligation. I swallowed my pride and said the thing, but all it engendered in my heart was disgust for this predatory behavior. Also this MF who was coercing me into saying his dumb prayer also wouldn't stop touching my leg, and my shoulder, with zero concern for my consent, or discomfort. I would rather starve than go to a church for "help."

[@brendalg4]

I've never seen a church require someone to pray the sinner's prayer to get help. It would be stupid because if you pray it without meaning what you pray, you're not getting "saved".

[@Aaron.Thomas]

Wait until you find out there's not a single religion that won't make you feel like a sucker, when you find out the truth.

[@jenna2431]

Religion is putting one's faith in ignorance. Nobody needs a weekly book club to be a decent person who contributes to human flourishing.

[@skeptic.pastor]

Fair

[@serenarobak3640]

Especially now when church and state are separate, at least for now, we are paying taxes separately so 10% on top 9f that is possible.

[@jannetteberends8730]

I suppose that originally part of that money in the Bible would have been used to give to the poor.

[@skeptic.pastor]

Yes.

[@PShawtx]

Tithing is biblical in the O.T. God instructed Israel to tithe to support the levi's since they had no inheritance. God doe not instruct tithing in the N.T. All giving in the N.T. is free will. 2 Cor 9:7. The title of this video is in correct.

[@GETTY_GREENZ]

I think the point is that the tithe isn't 10%....

[@johngregory4801]

Tithe literall means tenth.​@@GETTY_GREENZ

[@GETTY_GREENZ]

@@johngregory4801 the video.... His point.... Is that it does not mean tenth.... You have been told that.... And u continue to believe it.... Again.... Missing the point

[@johngregory4801]

@GETTY_GREENZ Sorry, but Strong's Hebrew and Greek dictionaries both agree. Don't tell me I've been lied to until you chase it down in the original languages yourself... Instead of just taking someone else's word for it.

[@johngregory4801]

@@GETTY_GREENZ TBTW, there's other resources proving it as well, but Strong's is the easiest to find, at least for me.

[@richardjohnson6628]

Actually, Book of Acts... doesn't it read something about Selling everything you own and giving the money to the Church? And Book of Luke... Jesus telling a man to sell everything he has, give the money to the poor and THEN follow Jesus?? That's pretty straightforward on its face...yes? Selling everything you own and then go to Jesus???

[@AlanEmmons-qw6bg]

Is,that the prosperity church? Who prospers Joel Osteen? Because it sure isn't me!!

[@ST52655]

Tithing is legalism. It’s the heretical prosperity gospel. Giving as we can, however, is biblical. There is no minimum. Years ago, when I had no money to give, I gave the church hours upon hours of my time, each and every week.

[@skeptic.pastor]

Preach! Yes! This is the way peple should feel and act.

[@StevenWilliams-o7b]

Technically the Bible supports tithing since Jesus said give to whoever asks of you

[@ike991963]

Tithing is not impossible, I know scores who tithe.. Though it is not ordered in the NT.

[@skeptic.pastor]

It's also not ordered in the O.T. at least not as 10%... data in the video. And it's not impossible for pepople who make enough money to have 10% left over. That's why there's a real justice issue in pushing it now.

[@ike991963]

@skeptic.pastor The poor give less, by proportion.

[@VCJeff12]

God doesn’t want your money, God doesn’t need your money. However, it is misleading to say that the Bible doesn’t call you to tithe. The word tithe literally translates to 10 percent or one tenth. God will not judge you if you don’t tithe but you COULD possibly be missing out on a blessing while on this earth. God even says if you give back ten percent he will bless you. God says “test me in this.” I believe you and God know what you can give, especially if you’re in a position of wealth. The wealth you have was given to you by God so why not give it back and bless the people that can’t eat or feed their children.

[@skeptic.pastor]

We can agree to disagree. The data is in my video.

[@MybridWonderful]

The bigger question is this: is tithing required for salvation? Can you buy your way into heaven in any manner? The answer is no. So f tithing. You don't need to do it. According to Jesus though you should give everything you have to the poor. It's funny how Jesus never said anything about tithing, but instead said give everything to the poor.

[@johnalexir7634]

Exactly. The only ones who push it hard are the ones in a position to gain by it.

[@brendalg4]

You're taking that scripture about giving everything to the poor out of context. He said it to the rich ruler... Who he knew would refuse to do it. Using your logic, you could also say there's no need to feed the hungry, take care of the sick etc... because God didn't say you could buy your way into heaven by doing it.

[@MybridWonderful]

@@brendalg4 Yeah, I agree that the third person you I was using can be construed to mean all. What I meant to say is Jesus is documented to have said give everything to the poor, but nowhere is it documented that he said anything about tithing.

[@suzannemckenzie7035]

Thanks dude for atleast admitting it and stop doing it!

[@tombrown7654]

WRONG AS USUAL With Satan's-Domain

[@skeptic.pastor]

Love to hear the specifics.

[@user-ff4zd7lh3q]

Muslims pay zakat but Quran states you can’t give it to the mosques. It has to go direct to people in need