TL vs C9 (MATCH UP OF THE YEAR??) & Patch 14.15! | The Dive Driven by Kia

[@tobaccymatty]

I really didn't notice how much I missed the Kobe & Jatt chemistry until this episode!

[@Tatoruzu]

Never forget they robbed us of This or That

[@shalomcross3979]

Yes! They have always been my favorite pair since this or that with Kobe and Jatt

[@jordanwang1035]

Sad to see Azael missing, but so happy to see Jatt back on the Dive. He and Kobe are made for each other.

[@xeagaort]

They don’t like eachother a whole lot irl

[@sohumgala2422]

@@xeagaort says who?

[@lazerfruit2121]

@@xeagaort Azael is home in Canada because his grandmother passed away. Has nothing to with them not liking eachother

[@gf2245]

@@xeagaort ?

[@verafied9225]

Do you know what I mean?

[@XykloneHL]

There's something about Jatt that always awakens Kobe's elementary school kid energy with them playfully bickering lol

[@escobarisanoctopus]

Love seeing Jatt back on The Dive. RIP to Azael's grandmother and best wishes to his family; they've had a rough couple months.

[@jessejames7116]

i feel bad poking into someones personal life, but i cant help but be curious.. what has been goin on the last couple of months for them?

[@escobarisanoctopus]

@jessejames7116 His father died right before MSI, that's why he wasn't there. Now, his grandmother just recently passed.

[@JJroks543]

Much love to Azael, hope all is well with his situation and that he and his family are doing as well as they can be ❤

[@__Fe__]

Holy moly a new JLXP episode!!

[@JLXPOfficial]

🥲

[@twitch_takeutchi]

This or That with Kobe, Jatt, and Meteos lol

[@Obzerver]

This, that, or the other thing sounds so much worse when you put it like that lmao

[@nicholaswilliams3323]

I agree with Kobe's take of basically "Cloud9 got into college for a football scholarship" and Team Liquid got into college because they have a 4.0 GPA" and i'm so excited to see who wins. Classic Jock vs. Nerds game

[@garciavashchino1]

I'm ever growing on Meteos in these Podcasts... this ep, he was dropping some serious bombs!!! Thanks you guys!!!

[@cedrichofstetter4057]

Thank you TL Jatt for jinxing C9

[@NicholasEckert]

Condolences to Azael and his family - hope to see him back next week.

[@patriarchparamour]

The Dive Academy 💀💀💀

[@Teaganharris]

Thank you guys for The Dive I always look forward to watching these on my lunch breaks. Keep up the good work, you guys always keep it entertaining.

[@SolarisHan]

Are we sure that Jatt doesn't secretly work at Valve instead of Riot? He also seems incapable of counting to 3

[@Darkstormsun9865]

​@aaronwagner9310 you don't quit league to play other games?

[@sterlinggrube]

Missed Jatt on The Dive, he is always so insightful and adds just great opinions on teams in the league and the game in general.

[@qontroL]

Jatt chant story is kinda funny. In literature they taught us that chanting follows the same rules as poetry, where itll almost always resolve into a _ . _. _. pattern. Which is exactly what Lets (_) go(.) C (_) 9 (.) does. So while Jatt did teach the crowd, it was a natural resolution

[@nicksmith516]

I could have sworn Phreak started the C9 chant.

[@makuros1064]

Made me realize how much I missed listening to Jatt speak, great episode!

[@kevinco7226]

Meteos can be our cadrel. Get this man on the broadcast more

[@arcofokker]

wdym a fake persona?

[@zachschulz7147]

bruh, been playing since 2013 and the patch notes have been my bible for 12ish years

[@OneWingedRose]

That chant story was gold, lol.

[@Darkstormsun9865]

I was there when it was written! I honestly dislike that chant.

[@firestarwaca8336]

Something to add about the strength of schedule discussion: A team that never really gets mention in that discussion is actually C9, let's say hypothetical C9 gets destroyed by both Fly and TL, suddenly LCS drops from the "the big 3" to "the big 2". Same in reverse if C9 stomps both Fly and TL suddenly there is only 1 Top Team

[@Emtropyy]

It’ll be hype to watch for sure but I’m not placing much stock in the actual results dictating how strong they actually are. Playoffs is where it counts. I remember C9 losing to EG in regular season and then 3-1’ing them in playoffs as underdogs and then all of a sudden C9 was the best.

[@lukerenchik1440]

Forgot how awesome Jatt is on this show, hope to see him back for more.

[@willman110]

it does not matter if C9 is good or bad. Analysts will always pick them.

[@jstacks000]

Yea I was gonna say the same people picked c9 over liquid last year and they 3-0ed c9

[@noahhaller4540]

@@jstacks000 Yeah C9 seems to eternally favor lane phase and micro over macro and teamplay. Which makes their wins super dominant cause they make leads that effectively end the game at 10 minutes (or 2 minutes against NRG), but if they don't get their leads they might not be able to play as steady of a game as Liquid. So it'll probably boil down to if C9 can beat TL in lane phase or theyll just lose.

[@jstacks000]

@@noahhaller4540 while I think that point is solid I don’t even think it’s that simple because we’ve seen TL defer pressure and lose lane in the early game and really outplay teams with map movements and team plays and even sneak barons now while I don’t think that would be an easy feat against a team of c9s caliber it’s too easy for C9 to misplay a big team fight and not be able to recover from that against liquid like they could against lower quality teams

[@AAIIYAAA]

I remember Jatt teaching the crowd this chant.

[@zachschulz7147]

Best podcast for league!! thank you so much guys!!!!

[@dylannovak9728]

The let's go c9 moment always sticks in my mind to this day when people just chant "c9" you tried tho jatt you tried

[@SnoopPogg]

Double round robin bo3 in a 14 week season would be so sick

[@JustAnAveragePenguin]

Love jatt on the dive, huge fan of JLXP. Need more episodes JATT❤

[@raigheb9306]

Well we haven't seen TL and Fly play against C9 either so we don't really know if they are good.

[@mango6894]

Thanatos helped a lot - hes BLINDING, he tp’s to fights, and blabber can clear toward bot. All of these were resources fudge took on a team with jojo and bezerker. Enabling those carries by being independent and tping for the team instead of trading objective for my gain on side is the difference

[@JQuill116]

For any other team I'd agree that picking Bard was a mistake, but because it's T1 and Keria, literally any skin will sell like crazy. Lux would sell more, and he would have 100% picked it if possible (Lux literally appears multiple times in the Bark skin animations", but tons of people will buy the Bard skin even if they don't play Bard simply because it's T1 and it's Keria. Also, based on reaction, it seems like the Bard skin is the one people think looks the best.

[@rasmusgarbonzo1411]

BRING JATT ON MORE OFTEN🗣🗣🗣

[@cedrichofstetter4057]

C9/TL is gonna be a freaking banger

[@tulipqueen4702]

Im still mad they took out the skarner tech of turning your body around before the ult ends. Sure that wasn't that impressive in season 10, but season 2 that was a really sick mechanical skill that we just lost from the rework.

[@DeathGrandMaster]

keep it up guys, LCS and LCK are the only watchable leagues right now

[@Niick3015]

Are you crazy? LPL has some amazing series going on. Their new system means we get to see more of the top teams facing each other rather than having to watch BLG stomp some low tier teams for weeks.

[@Skylark0000]

@@Niick3015I think what the other commenter means is they’ve downsized so much that the production value is really lacking.

[@DeathGrandMaster]

@@Niick3015 LPL is the only region i never felt like watching so dont take it to heart, it might be good but i cant say.

[@UltimacraftedArmy]

Nice episode, very hyped for TL vs C9.

[@Zmargo702]

This reminded me of what they took from us. Bring back This or That with Kobe and Jatt!!! 😡

[@Auturgist]

Would love to hear what Meteos thinks Riot needs to do to bring Elise back into the ranks of significantly played junglers. Elise is currently the #10 least played champion in the game, which seems pretty criminal to me, because I always think of Elise alongside Lee Sin when I think about classic jungler duels. In fact, Karsa was playing Elise in the game when Meteos had his 66-minute Lee Sin kick.

[@EAkidd]

please bring back Jatt. I support all Jatt content

[@parlangua89]

some tandems are just meant to be. Kobe and Jatt are that. PLS for the love of everything holy can we get Jatt back on the dive.

[@pandatree66]

With Skarner there is different things going against him. 1. Monster champions are not popular, I don't know why maybe it is the culture of league or the region or just people in general but also he doesn't fit the cute category that people tend to accept in monster champions. 2.He has the Camille kit where it is good all around so when he is good he is oppressive but then end up nerfed to hell. I personally don't think a champion being in multiple roles is a problem but for some reason this is a big convo around skarner , big bulky dudes especially tanks make sense top.

[@MegaJrod17]

Really enjoyed jatt on the episode this week!

[@A_Wild_Momo]

Week 4 of asking you guys to get a mid lane perspective about the adcs mid. How much is it really adcs or is it because AP jg items + resistant boots + Sustain Runes are op + standard mage items feel like garbage rn (Ludons shadow flame etc) I don’t think adcs need a nerf I think all of those issues above are actually the issue. Also hope everything is well with Azeal goat analyst!

[@SteefPip]

Jatt getting excited about the possibility of the first undefeated LCS team in a 7 matchup split made me throw up a little.

[@ac8598]

I read patch notes. In fact I never used to read it when I started playing the game, but the more I played the more i cared about those stupid incremental buffs and nerfs.

[@coreyblaisdell]

With the bo3 single round robin format it feels like there aren't nearly enough games. I'm curious what you guys think about a format where the first round robin is bo1, and the second is bo3. This feels like it could be double schedule wise and would provide a nice arc through the split as we progress from b01 to b03 to bo5 in playoffs. Love the dive and Meteos carries the costreams, keep it up!

[@stigs6610]

C9 looks a lot like many other top teams of LCS past who can get an early lead on an Eastern team but after 14 minutes they look like a bunch of headless chickens. That kind of play generally works in LCS but it doesn't work against TL because they are really an anomaly - they play more like an Eastern team than an LCS team. Their macro and team coordination is SO much better than any other team in LCS. TL 2-0

[@julessantana2139]

imo i think C9 just hasn't been pushed yet to show resilience/ team coordination i think in their first series, DIG did push them, and we seen that they were able to play well in a closer game, where they were challenged. also i remember their series against FearX where they were challenged like that since then they just haven't been challenged so they once again look like a team that just stomps early game to win, but if you look at the scrims narratives that are popping up, and other players talking about them.. u can see that they have more respect as a complete team, FLY players even putting C9 above them, saying C9 is harder than TL.. where as in Spring, they were looking fraudulent in scrims, everyone was saying "they don't play like a team" etc lower ranked teams were beating them.. rn all of the lower ranked teams are like "yeah C9 just smashes us in scrims" .. another point is last split they were losing to lower ranked teams on stage, now they're smashing em, which to me shows obvious improvement.. like they really struggled vs these teams in Spring

[@nicksmith516]

I could have sworn Phreak was the one who started the C9 chant... maybe I'm remembering wrong.

[@MagusMik]

Games have been ending so early due to the clear difference in team skill they should do three matches a day honestly

[@jakesicotte6206]

Galio and Neeko used both rocket belt and storm surge originally

[@victorsosa8201]

When will Jatt Team fight breakdown come back??? 😢 I was a big fan of those!

[@halomca]

Can’t remember the exact year, but one or two of the C9 teams in the past had either had the perfect season or had only 1 loss as well

[@Darkstormsun9865]

2020 c9 with a similar roster. The OG c9 went 25-3 and 24-4 once before.

[@taylornelly2705]

Why is meteos on this episode of This or That?

[@Ohioluigi1]

I have no idea how fates ashes isn’t nerfed. The item is so broken on ap junglers that it warps the entire meta around it. The power level of ap farming junglers is a major enabler of ad mids in competitive play.

[@saintsataniko2116]

METEOS definitely reads Patch Notes: He just schooled Pobelter on Pantheon's E on the Trinity + 1 Stream last week.

[@iGreen_]

Omg we got some decent mic arms god bless 👏👏

[@doing63]

cool

[@BoinkadelicJones]

I really liked rocketbelt on Ekko, but the HP doesn't seem to help him much

[@KevinSlawinski]

As someone who always thought the "trash talk is good for the league" angle was a bit silly, it has come as no surprise to me that during the split where players are encouraged to flame each other as a broadcast content mechanism, we are seeing multiple players going public with mental health struggles. A bit of a shame that LCS seems to need to lean on putting their players down to garner views.

[@gyromite]

Jatt at 1:30:29 forgot to add "unless your name is Fnatic."

[@garciavashchino1]

43:12. 100g per kill pre 14m!!! Here are 10 dudes, here are 10 knives, see you in 14 mins 😮

[@Th4n4n10]

So I'm a huge c9 fan, but how has no one drawn some similarities between Summit and Thanatos? Incredibly similar picks, crushing lane, etc. Teams figured out how to beat summit so what will happen when they finally do that against thanatos?

[@burritogod59]

Meteos "I thought this was JLXP" XD

[@B6T1G9]

Tl has been so glazed because they beat t1 one game after they have been dealing with ddos issues all year. Also, TL has been playing the same style every game which doesn't bode well for them in the long run. 100t even in Spring they felt overly lucky. No idea how quid got MVP instead of river/inspired.

[@kirbybassin7293]

c9 goin undefeated!!

[@dedratrs]

The Dive academy 😂😂

[@donutlie315]

Jatt I see you reading the comment with 'ctrl+f: jatt" and not watching the full episode.

[@JLXPOfficial]

....

[@donutlie315]

@@JLXPOfficial lmao

[@markmyers8491]

"Go C9, go C9, ..."

[@Aemulator.]

A reminder for everyone that their 2015 and 2016 skins were also heavily critiqued on launch - I half thing the problem is there is no skin the community thinks is “good enough” to honor their legacy. Which is silly

[@FastEddieQ87]

Great episode bois

[@ezellbolian7635]

it crazy to me that anyone thing LCS will ever be competitve with the ammount of games we play every season being like 1/20th of almost every other region (i know that's a hyperbolic number) but yeah until we decide to act and play like a major region, its just gonna be us getting blasted internationally till the end of time.

[@Slipfish]

I missed Kobe - Jatt Dives. Kobe - Jatt - Azael was op.

[@nyvisalays2475]

TL might be overhyped a bit, but C9 is way too reliant on hands diff in lane against weaker teams, there's no way they'll win against a team who know how to mitigate it.

[@mustard9933]

Dive needs a permanent stats guy!

[@bryanpritzl5812]

True

[@achroniccarebear7464]

I'd be less so impressed of a "Undefeated" run for the LCS this split. Similar to why people were trying to discredit T1's undefeated run, I think it's further amplified here. Yes, record and series scores may be undefeated, but there's the asterisk that both TL and C9 will have lost a game within their matches. But more so, it's only a single round robin, and against 7 other teams. Comparitively to runs in other regions or even looking at LCS teams in the past, I don't think an undefeated run carries as much weight or prestige in the modern day LCS.

[@HybridLetsPlay]

I think to Jatt's point about C9 mid-to-late game, while I agree with Jatt that we don't really know yet how they will do against a top team, I think if Jatt went back and comapred C9's games against the lower tier teams last split to this split, Jatt would see a world of difference already. Will be interesting to get Jatt's thoughts on this after the series on Sunday. Jatt Jatt Jatt Ctrl-F Jatt Gang

[@Darsam88]

I agree, when they have been in close or games that feel contested they seem to be better. However in games that don't feel close it seems like they start disrespecting their opponent and getting caught out for it. It's still bad but you can see a difference from them going step by step and not. I think part of the problem is also them getting stuck on the Nid comps

[@HybridLetsPlay]

@@Darsam88 I wonder how much of them playing Nid is because they think it's good, and how much they just want to say we're playing this until you beat it or ban it, which is what NRG ended up doing game 2. Like I love Blaber, but I don't think there's any world where a team in NA should be banning Nid, so C9 earned a free ban in that series was pretty good.

[@JLXPOfficial]

You were early with this one

[@Quintoneus]

Ksante hasn’t been good for a while only when teams run it down does he get a lead

[@jasonstaubach6846]

lets go kia also ive missed jatt hes the most fun type of annoyinh

[@KingR098]

Time management in this episode was kind of rough. I know it's match of the week but too much time spent on C9 TL and the patch notes. Shopify has been looking a lot better but got like two minutes of talk. 100T and IMT also just brushed over.

[@powerpaul1995]

Hi Jatt, happy ctrl+f

[@JLXPOfficial]

Hi

[@diene2cyclize]

I like Jatt now 😂

[@jobhunter-j7d]

Sylas got cut 55% AP scaling. That's 55% damage straight up gone. for a 5% boost in damage from bonus HP. 55% damage straight up gone. Now ask yourself, is that an adjustment? or a straight up nerf? because riot called that an 'adjustment'.

[@FinalOverdose]

@kobe the problem you have is pro players will just walk away from a bad situation which is why to have so few 1v1 PvP situations. And when they don't on broadcast the announcers actively say "What was he doing there he should have left, he should have know that was a bad spot to be"

[@bryanpritzl5812]

First time messenger here but can’t they just add like 15 MR to all jungle monsters so you can nerf ap jungle’s without nerfing ap?

[@minidooba2788]

because this also hurts other jungle champs too, like the tank junglers that deal magic damage

[@theelectricant98]

Insane thumbnail

[@NeusReeves]

The Dive!!!

[@scotthoran8855]

It's easy c9 is the kid who gets all A's but never studies. TL is the book worm

[@Acklon]

This or That Dive ft Meteos

[@LAK253]

Spoiler Blocker !!!

[@samuelhair4465]

Jatt challenges the guys to mortal kombat and takes over the dive

[@LAK253]

@@samuelhair4465 nice try Diddy

[@adobolift]

Banger thumbnail

[@davidmducc]

boy oh boy

[@ZzShy]

They had to nerf LoL Cass to compensate for how busted she is in the new TFT

[@jaredbeals585]

"Dive academy" lmaoooo

[@achroniccarebear7464]

First they destroyed my boy Yorick and now Skarner - I cry

[@adamletourneau9850]

Pre-rework yorick was horrible what are you talking about lmao

[@achroniccarebear7464]

@@adamletourneau9850 It could be that I haven't put the time in on new Yorick, but his pre-rework kit was a ton of fun. Biggest of lane bullies. His ultimate was a little janky, but in my own opinion, old yorick was more enjoyable to play, the ghouls had much more power and the utility built into them as well was far better than what they are now

[@ethangilworth7891]

I love Jatt

[@ethangilworth7891]

Seriously the dream dive lineup

[@Auturgist]

"I definitely prefer a League of Legends game state that heavily incentivizes risking and going for kills on champions." AMEN, BROTHER KOBE! Now, tell Phreak to stop being a coward and buff Elise!

[@_WBtS_]

Let’s go C9 💪

[@feartheoldblood7222]

Jatt trying to gaslight everyone thinking his C9 pick was a hot take.

[@noahhaller4540]

It sort of was, C9 was supposed to be a super team in spring and then got 3-0'd by Team Liquid in playoffs, as well as having a rather poor regular season. Then TL goes to MSI and does better than anyone expected, actually had a somewhat competitive series with T1, (and again at EWC). So the thought process is that TL scaled hard during playoffs, won it, then went to MSI and got even better, and then every team in preseason said they were legit. So it was hard to justify putting C9 above TL given the last series between them was a noncompetitive TL 3-0, and TL had seemingly only gotten better and C9 swapped out an invisible toplaner for a lane god (who still somehow got solo killed by Sniper) when their issue was never early game or laning, it was that they ran around like headless chickens during mid to late game. Which we still haven't seen if they have a decent mid game cause they've only played against lower tier teams and stomped early game each time.

[@naught0]

Jatt!!!!

[@neutonpack1682]

But is C9 the Fnatic of the LCS?

[@dirtyneptunemain917]

Yes, they will choke