TLM Cancellation: What can lay people do?

Рет қаралды 2,648

Күн бұрын

If Francis crushes the TLM as expected in July, there are things normal lay people can do in response to maintain Tradition and traditional communities.
Links:
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@pamdidio9622 3 ай бұрын

THE LATIN MASS,THE BEAUTIFUL BRIDE.

@monicamohan4720 3 ай бұрын

I appreciate that you are respecting people's conscience. My conscience would not allow me to attend a NO. My concern though is that, if some go backwards to the NO, the TLM won't be offered...

@catholicesquire 3 ай бұрын

Yes, I agree on both points. That's why its important to never let the open, vocal desire for TLM to die.

@kbeautician 3 ай бұрын

Huh? Do you think the offering of TLM hinges on attendance?

@catholicesquire 3 ай бұрын

@@kbeautician No. Not the offering itself. Keeping the TLM a topic of conversation to support tradition overall is the idea.

@katydidd6321 3 ай бұрын

One thing I might suggest if I may? This is also for people who may have to resort to the NO: sign up for Adoration if you haven't already. Some NO's are rough - no really, not reverent _at all_ and the priest talks to you like you're a very small child and is more concerned with virtue signalling than instructing us on how to avoid sin. However, getting that one on one time with Christ keeps you focused on who this is all really about, and its gotten me through some difficult times. Anyway, don't know if this helps. God bless everyone.

@rosschizzoniti906 3 ай бұрын

I will never go to a NOVUS ORDO mass unless it is for a relative or family member. or a friend only . The SSPX will continue with their TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS which I will ONLY attend ❤🎉 😅 and if it should stop for some reason then I will watch the on line TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS every SUNDAY! DOMINUS REX EST in VERO APOSTOLORUM CATHOLICUM. AMEN 🙏 ST PIUS X ORA PRO NOBIS .

@BronxCat 3 ай бұрын

Caught the show with Dr. Haugen aka dr.deepstate! Fabulous your pals now, we need those brains to be working together ❤

@catholicesquire 3 ай бұрын

Great, thanks!

@karlthomas2429 3 ай бұрын

Well done! This should help those unable to move to distant TLM location if their TLM is cancelled.

@llamuth1919 3 ай бұрын

SSPV. Traditional Latin Mass offered by a legitimately ordained priest. There are a number of these Chapels around the Country. May God bless you all abundantly and always.

@kbeautician 3 ай бұрын

CMRI as well. Also, independent chapels. For me the sede and una cum priests are options. No reason to attend NO rites…it’s sudo-Prot. No thank you.

@John_Malloy 3 ай бұрын

All good suggestions. I would add two points. One: This should be considered temporary, more or less. Francis and his ilk will move on from this life and then, I predict, there will be a huge blow back to tradition that the modernists will be at pains to contain. Two: This has happened before under Paul VI when he published his New Order missal in the first place. The traditional movement began at this point when certain clergy and a couple of bishops refused to go along. It would be very encouraging if the clergy pushed back on this.

@judithfortuna4453 3 ай бұрын

This is extremely sad to be honest.

@dianneraimondi8382 3 ай бұрын

Home masses might be needed. There are no TLM in Massachusetts. Maybe one in Boston which most people can't get to.

@catholicesquire 3 ай бұрын

Absolutely, you will need the cooperation of a priest for that obviously, but that must be something you explore.

@littlerock5256 3 ай бұрын

CMRI has a Quincy listing.

@magdalenep8497 3 ай бұрын

@@littlerock5256 I believe they are sedevacantist but is that so bad these days?

@littlerock5256 3 ай бұрын

@@magdalenep8497 I personally believe the situation is sede impedita, the seat impeded, as the claimant does not have authority. It is Francis's intent to phase out the 1962. The CMRI does the 1958 Mass.

@markjoslin9912 3 ай бұрын

What can lay people do? Stop donating

@mariekatherine5238 3 ай бұрын

If I must attend a novus ordo, I treat it like what it is, a Protestant service.

@js2702 3 ай бұрын

I will have to drive 3 hours to get to SSPX closest TLM. Ave Maria🌹🌹

@catholicesquire 3 ай бұрын

Wonderful. Sorry you have to drive so far.

@Peter-uj8ye 3 ай бұрын

Excellent Advice Esquire

@My3.Boys. 3 ай бұрын

Find a SSPX

@Katholícă 3 ай бұрын

I attend both TLM and Byzantine, I would support any TLM groups that arise, but will attend Divine Liturgy at my Byzantine church if the TLM gets banned. In the Byzantine tradition we NEVER had communion in the hand. Will Francis eventually attack our Eastern Rites since they are just as Traditional? And know that our Eastern brethren pray for the Latin Rite, they know it is wrong to attack Tradition.

@stephanievostenak2784 3 ай бұрын

Hard to believe that this video even needed to be made.

@laurae.4285 3 ай бұрын

If I HAVE to go to NO Mass, I don't sing the responses - mostly because pretty much every parish has a different melody (it's called "unity"...😂) I veil. I kneel and remain kneeling throughout the consecration and do not participate in the sign of peace "party" that breaks out during the most solemn part of the Mass. I've been to churches where it takes several minutes to get people back into their pews... I receive on the knees and on the tongue, and i will always aisle hop to get to the priest. And I always smile at everyone I meet. Yep. I AM that lady... 😂

@erics9461 3 ай бұрын

Well done wish more people had your courage. I also at least receive in the tongue the Eucharist and only go to priest if I ever have to go to Novus Ordo. I have heard a lot of Novus Ordo priests will get mad and some even denied Eucharist if you kneel. I love TLM.

@hyeminkwun9523 3 ай бұрын

It seems that the church you attend is led by an unfaithful priest. Please try to find a parish which is led by a faithful priest, where there is no Eucharistic ministers, no abuses, and only priest and deacon give Holy Eucharist on a tongue (not on a hand). The parish I attend, we have a communion rail and we kneel and receive communion on our tongues. We should never blame NO Mass, because it is a valid Mass, proven by many Eucharistic Miracles occurred on consecrated hosts during NO Mass. The problem is that there are many priests who abuse the NO Mass, implementing modernist practices which degrade the Mass and greatly offend God. Many lay people do not understand that they are led to commit sacrileges by their pastors. By the way, what is happening in the Church is the fulfillment of prophecies in 2 Thes 2:1-7. But God will cast out all the evil forces and renew the Church soon, with the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Our Mother and the 2nd coming of Her Divine Son, Our Lord. Have Faith and be in Peace! If you do not know 'Mission of Divine Mercy', please visit their website and read messages from God given through nuns there. Then you will clearly understand why the Church has so much problems and what we should do to remain faithful to the end. May God bless you and keep you. Amen!

@annie7264 3 ай бұрын

I veil but hate to see some of the mothers & daughters dress as they’re going to the beach during the summer months! The priests must address the way the females dress!

@BronxCat 3 ай бұрын

A dry TLM i call it, read red Missal, say whole booklet, pray.and kneel.

@Vinsanity997 3 ай бұрын

It’s hard. The new mass breezes through the opening prayers

@Marcia-fw3wz 3 ай бұрын

@@Vinsanity997 By the time we finish reading the traditional opening prayers, they are halfway through the Gloria!

@katherinehickey6915 3 ай бұрын

An option also could be to read St Francis De Sales meditation on the mass for those swift Novus ordos

@billyhw5492 3 ай бұрын

Summorum Pontificum was never repealed. Only a pope could repeal a motu proprio, and that has never happened yet.

@Hope_Boat 3 ай бұрын

Orthodox here. The Roman Catholic dogmas do not need to be repealed. Reality canceled them. Rome is erring no matter what Dictatus Papae proclaimed.

@robertmanella528 3 ай бұрын

It is ok!! Jesus christ is still the king of kings and the high priest of the new and everlasting covenant and our savior!!! I trust in jesus!! We the lay people are the body of the church!! We can obey blessed Mary's messages and pray & pray some more!!

@Hope_Boat 3 ай бұрын

The Church of Christ was is and will be the orthodox Church. We didn't change since the holy fathers and we will continue to protect the deposit of the faith, the sacraments, the divine liturgy, the sacred art, the sacred architecture and the creed. Kyrie eleison ☦️

@Individualati 3 ай бұрын

Pope Francis will take his usual July break from most of his activities, according to the Prefecture of the Papal Household in a statement released on Friday. As he has for years, the Holy Father will suspend General Audiences, as well as most activities and other meetings, during July to allow for a period of rest. However, as he has always done in the past, the Pope will continue to pray the Angelus on Sunday at noon with the faithful in St. Peter’s Square. The Pope's General Audiences will resume on Wednesday, August 7.

@Individualati 3 ай бұрын

For what it's worth. It's not like he'll take a month off from doing evil.

@jamesdulany2176 3 ай бұрын

If the TLM gets canceled, look into the Ordinariate if there's one near you. That would be my plan if the former ED communities get suppressed. You don't have to be a canonical member to attend their Masses just as you don't have to be Eastern Rite to attend theirs (just be cautious with the Eastern Rite people because they are justifiably wary of trads coming in to ride the storm and not integrating into their parish life). The other ideas of dry Masses etc with a group of TLM exiles is fine too.

@marcokite 3 ай бұрын

Best of all, Holy Orthodoxy.

@jamesdulany2176 3 ай бұрын

@@marcokite Absolutely not. I would NEVER leave the Church over this or any other issue.

@concernedcitizen780 3 ай бұрын

Well… it’s not a perfect option. Some will say 15 decades of the Rosary if they can’t get to mass. Some will travel 1-2-3 hours to get to mass. Maybe hitch a ride to the mass. There may be reasonable N.O. That is reverent. I will not go to a pride mass or a clown mass. The TLM is beautiful, serves a purpose and is good.

@mariatolentino4516 3 ай бұрын

No clown Masses in my Diocese, so I don't know where those clown Masses are. Even the Director of Vocations of the Diocese told people not to get him started on those clown masses. And he was talking to a group of young adults.

@johnchristiancanda3320 3 ай бұрын

I live in Mindanao, which is the hotbed of Small Christian Communities and Charismatic Renewal in the Philippines. The bishops here are indifferent, if not opposed, to Tradition. Only the SSPX offers the TLM here. Meanwhile, some of the bishops in Luzón and the Visayas allow the TLM to be said.

@concernedcitizen780 3 ай бұрын

@@johnchristiancanda3320 I think you will be happy with SSPX. It is a struggle.

@a.t.c.3862 3 ай бұрын

The Ladin Mess IS a clown Mass. Traditionalism is a protestant charade.

@johnchristiancanda3320 3 ай бұрын

@@concernedcitizen780Thanks for the encouragement. I admit it's indeed a struggle. I have differences with the SSPX, especially with regards to their acknowledgement of Bergoglio as pope and their use of the 1962 Missal and the 1955 Reformed Holy Week, but I would rather attend an SSPX TLM than NO Masses where there is clapping, dancing, political homilies, Communion in the hand, self-Communion under both species and lay ministers. I would also not attend a "Celebration of the Word". I am the only Traditional Catholic in a family of Charismatics. The NO clergy here are Progressive, ecumenist, worldly and pro-LGBTQ.

@DonBailey-od1de 2 ай бұрын

You make a good point , community. Caesar wouldn't allow a fire department in Rome at one time , the reason was that it took two hundred men to run a fire department. That was the problem was two hundred men joining together to work , which meant they could plot against him. We have the GOD given right of assembly. I will pray for Cesar, i will not pray to him. When lost return to the oldest ways of your father's and donot remove his landmarks.

@gabrielleeliseo6062 3 ай бұрын

I'm planning on moving to another country mainly to escape the communism in America. I'm working on getting a job out of the US.

@pamdidio9622 3 ай бұрын

THANKS FOR DEFINING

@SarumChoirmaster 3 ай бұрын

The ancient Sarum Rite also is an option since no bishop can forbid a priest to officiate.

@Thoughtworld1984 3 ай бұрын

I don't think the FSSP and ICK are being threatened.

@Vinsanity997 3 ай бұрын

They’re not

@Marcia-fw3wz 3 ай бұрын

Yet.

@mariatolentino4516 3 ай бұрын

And even when they thought they were threatened, Fr. Bisig advised the faithful to take it as a Cross.

@marcokite 3 ай бұрын

But the FSSP and ICKSP are not everywhere - best thing, become Orthodox.

@Vinsanity997 3 ай бұрын

@@marcokite opens up a whole new discussion though, the arguments I’ve heard for orthodoxy are exactly the same as what we Catholics say just with the added “but without the pope”. No actual reason for believing in the councils and the pentarchy, reception theory, and more

@Hope_Boat 3 ай бұрын

There is only one thing you can do : admit that the 'traditional' Catholic Dogmas promoted since the Great Schism of 1054 such as the idea that the Roman Church will never err in al' perpetuity because tje Roman Pontiff is the guarantor of orthodoxy and salvation were demonstrto be errors. The Roman Pontiff can contradict previous Pontiffs and Romme is erring for quite a while. Not just since Vatican 2. The entire Pontifical cult is a apostasy from the orthodox faith as we orthodox were telling you since the Great Schism. Only fools can pretend that the Roman Church did a better job preserving her liturgy, her sacraments, her sacred rites, her sacred art, her sacred architecture and the creed than the Orthodox Church did without a Pontiff. Time to listen to the orthodox Church ☦️

@catholicesquire 3 ай бұрын

Yea, sorry, pretending like EO is not some chaotic mess just because the liturgies are nice is not going to cut it. I don't believe in divorce, purgatory is real, I believe in original sin and the Immaculate Conception, not to mention common sense tells you God must have allowed for there to be one supreme head of the Church or you end up with crazy ideas about what to believe. If it wasn't for Papal supremacy and Tradition, no one could say for sure the crazy stuff coming out of the Vatican now is wrong.

@Hope_Boat 3 ай бұрын

@@catholicesquire When you will be tired of you cognitive dissonance remember that we protected the deposit of the faith while you were innovating. Indeed our lord talked about the first among us : _A dispute also arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Nations lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves._ Luke 22:24-26 The greatest being like the youngest translates into Primus inter pares. Unam Sanctam established a king who lords over the Nations pretending to be a saviour. What you believe has no weight. What counts is the deposit of the faith given once and for all by Christ to the Apostles. Orthodoxy is not Pepsi trying to steal marketshares from the Pontifical Coca-Cola business. We are not a party. We don't sell indulgences and don't try to lord it over anyone. We wash the feet of whomever wants to enter in the house of our master like the slaves did in antiquity before a guest was allowed into the house of their masters. Lord have mercy on us all sinners ☦

@marcokite 3 ай бұрын

@@catholicesquire - Yea, sorry, you're a great guy but stop pretending the RCC isn't in schism. Stop pretending that the EO is a mess, coming from a Roman Catholic can you not see the irony?! The 'problems' of the EO (where there are human beings there are problems) are not even on the radar compared to the disaster that is the RCC. EO is a bastion of Tradition both in the Liturgy and teaching on Faith and Morals, we don't dilute like the RCC has done or innovate like you. More RCs divorce than Orthodox PLUS on top of that your church hands out so called 'annulments' like confetti. Stop pretending the EO smiles on divorce. It's only for adultery (as Our Lord allows) or a serious, serious breakdown/domestic violence/long term abandonment etc. IF a divorce is allowed (very rare and under VERY strict conditions) re-marriage is NOT allowed to the guilty party. We have ONE HEAD; the Lord Jesus Christ. On earth the patriarchs and bishops govern as they did for the first 1,000 years of the Church, a 'supreme head' is an innovation. Try to use some COMMON SENSE - we EO maintain Tradition, you RCs with your 'supreme pontiff' water it down by order of said supreme pontiff!!

@marcokite 3 ай бұрын

@@Hope_Boat - well said!!!

@marcokite 3 ай бұрын

Amen!

@NatalieHudspeth-Storey 2 ай бұрын

Good, practical and charitable recommendations!

@tubaceous 3 ай бұрын

If the TLM parish is disbanded by bishop’s decree, it should refuse obedience, but remain together, continue to meet on Sundays and seek services of a diocesan TLM priest ‘in private’. It is also possible to hire independent Catholic priest from SSPV or CMRI…😊😊😊

@xiomarablanco5598 3 ай бұрын

Thank you for the advice. I’ll talk with our priest at TLM about this.

@pattican700 3 ай бұрын

haven't been to a NO in a couple of years, getting through with online Mass and whenever Father makes the rounds, every few months...

@jeffcoleman6040 2 ай бұрын

How about asking the priest to follow the rubrics of the Latin mass only say it in English or your native tongue.

@douglashaugen3931 3 ай бұрын

Good practical ideas.

@sarahm9723 3 ай бұрын

It's taken me a while to decide to drive 2 hours to and from the nearest TLM, and now the Pope is about to do this. 😵

@sashatesija9117 3 ай бұрын

Very good points , awesome.

@johnnytoronto1066 2 ай бұрын

I pray the Latin Mass at home, am looking for a nearby priest.

@Aryalanae 3 ай бұрын

FSSP or ICKSP.

@snowyskylar8821 3 ай бұрын

In my experience, some priests at the novus ordo, will happily give communion, kneeling and on the tongue, after mass in the vestry. 👑✝️

@mariatolentino4516 3 ай бұрын

Yes, they give the option. Some NO parishes have even added kneelers and priests are behind the rails. Latin is also incorporated into the liturgy during special days, at least in my Diocese. And when the FSSP church needed priests, some Diocesan priests stepped up to help (the altar servers helped those priests). One was even the Diocesan director of Vocations.

@a.t.c.3862 3 ай бұрын

@@mariatolentino4516 You have a bad diocese, then.

@mariatolentino4516 3 ай бұрын

@@a.t.c.3862 nope, it's a very good one You're judging something you know nothing about.

@a.t.c.3862 3 ай бұрын

@mariatolentino4516 Latin, kneeler and rails? It's definitely a wicked diocese, because none of those things are traditional - they were not present at the Last Supper.

@kbeautician 3 ай бұрын

Wow. Those who attend NO mass but condemn and shun the Tridentine mass because “Sede.” Just wow. Have a nice day. #priorities #prioritize #judgeright #simple

@kbeautician 3 ай бұрын

And those Sede laity/priests/bishops who condemn/shun those who attend any TLM, that you’ve happened to condemn…for one reason or another. MOST HOLY FAMILY, PRAY FOR US. SAINT PIUS V, PRAY FOR US. SAINT PETER, PRAY FOR US. SAINT PIUS X, PRAY FOR US. IMMACULATE CONCEPTION, PRAY FOR US. CHRIST THE KING, PRAY FOR US.

@andrelevesque6359 3 ай бұрын

Your so lost he likes christian families he had one. He is fed up whit them attacking him. An ideologie is not keeping tradition.

@mariatolentino4516 3 ай бұрын

Btw, when I go to NO (I also livedtream Mass from the Cathedral), I sign when I should sign. Kneeling throughout? During the Solemn High Mass, people stand as well for the Pater Noster, sit during the Epistle, etc. In the NO, I kneel during the final blessing, genuflect on that part of the Creed "...by the power of the Holy Spirit...." instead of bow. Even the Pastor of one NO said that we usually genuflect at that part, but bow reverently if you can't genuflect. Some NO Churches in my Diocese have added kneelers at the center so those qho want to kneel can kneel. Those that don't have kneelers? We kneel on the floor. Priests don't have a problem with it. In the Cathedral, the priests are behind the rail so attendees have the option to kneel at the rail. Even some of our newly ordained NO priests go around in cassock (which they wore even when they were deacons). First blessing of one newly ordained? He went behind a kneeler so that people could kneel when he gave his first blessing. Nobody judges those who are more traditional. In fact, in the NO that I attend, it is the non-whites who kneel for Holy Communion (Jamaican, African, Hispanic, Southeast Asian). At the Seoul International Catholic Church (when I visited Korea), the ones kneeling were the African men

@katherinehickey6915 3 ай бұрын

I think it would be nice to go to adoration with fellow TLM devotees and read the tlm missal and make a spiritual communion. Adoration is quiet and very respectful and is a suitable environment to commemorate Christ's Passion. Maybe the church could offer that at the time the TLM diocesan mass was held.

@magdalenep8497 3 ай бұрын

Adoration is wonderful but not a substitute for holy Mass. A spiritual communion does not fulfil the Sunday Obligation and until they close the churches, will not suffice. And if a person is attending adoration at a novus ordo parish, they then believe that it was a valid consecration. Before I move, with mass so distressing, I did pray with an English/Latin missal and sometimes used earplugs.

@Marcia-fw3wz 3 ай бұрын

@@magdalenep8497 Going to Mass is what fulfills the Sunday and Holy Day obligations, but if a person prefers not to receive the Holy Eucharist, then a Spiritual Communion is the next option, as long as they're in the state of grace.

@Andrew-ug8wl 3 ай бұрын

Pray 🙏🏻 Fast 🍽️ & study 📖 sculptures 📕

@ritaeslinger7011 3 ай бұрын

Scriptures

@Andrew-ug8wl 3 ай бұрын

@@ritaeslinger7011 Thanks 🙏🏻

@Gabriele251 3 ай бұрын

We do daily and weekly already ..pray for your Bishops to be filled with the Holy GHOST and CEASE to worship the black stone in secret ..same for the Cardinals and other religious

@marianamaguire7450 3 ай бұрын

@BryanKirch 3 ай бұрын

This paradigm is getting absurd. There are Novus Ordo masses in Latin with incense and chanting. Anyone who isn’t willing to go to a parish that has Latin NO mass is just being stubborn. There’s a directory of revenant Catholic masses. It’s not simply schism or clown mass

@BlairGordon-g8c 3 ай бұрын

Not anywhere near where I am and those will also be targeted once the Tridentine mass is completely abolished, as will Eucharist adoration and communion on the tongue. Many anti-Latin Catholics are actually saying that the mass and Eucharist should be entirely replaced by social justice activities.

@BryanKirch 3 ай бұрын

@@BlairGordon-g8c I bet you there’s one and you’re not aware look up reverent Catholic mass there’s a map of the whole country. Everyone wants to make it TLM or gay pride it’s an absolutely terrible paradigm. Padre Pio would do the NO in Latin to stay the course till God fixes his church

@Marcia-fw3wz 3 ай бұрын

There's so much more in the TLM than just Latin, smells, bells, or chanting. It's also the contemplative richness of so many psalms and prayers that the priest prays, which were removed by those who crafted the Novus Ordo into a watered-down version of what the Mass is meant to be. Most of all, it's the way that Jesus, veiled in the Holy Eucharist, is treated with utmost reverence.

@charles1738 3 ай бұрын

It's not just about the latin language. It's about the rubrics, prayers, its Cristo centricity, and its solemnity. Its traditional values and teachings have been with the church for 100's of years.

@BryanKirch 3 ай бұрын

@@Marcia-fw3wz I’ve lost all respect for this movement. I hear nothing but excuses all the time. I attend the TLM it was removed we do the Latin novus ordo we keep unity. You guys are assisting in the downfall with your inability to handle the smallest suffering. I’m not participating in this victim mindset you all have

@Mark3ABE 3 ай бұрын

I love the butcher’s hat. My instinctive response on viewing these podcasts is to order a pound and a half of best steak mince!

@annie7264 3 ай бұрын

Grow up

@marcokite 3 ай бұрын

Leave the schismatic RCC and explore Orthodoxy, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

@crusader333ad 3 ай бұрын

Orthos are Schismatic. Orthodox wrong on divorce , contraception, rebaptism ., the filioque and the primacy of Peter. And more.

@crusader333ad 3 ай бұрын

You seem to like Catholic channels.

@Aryalanae 3 ай бұрын

The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is not the Orthodox churches. Becoming a schismatic would be worse than going to a Novus Ordo.

@Aryalanae 3 ай бұрын

The RCC is one rite in the HCAAC. The other rites aren’t being affected by what the Latin rite is going through.

@Mark3ABE 3 ай бұрын

Reading through these comments, it is clear that many of the Faithful have particular preferences which are not, directly, related to having the Mass said in Latin, with the responses said by the Altar Servers, rather than the whole congregation. The main intention of the Second Vatican Council was to involve the congregation more closely and this required the most of the Mass to be in the vernacular. When the original Greek Liturgy was translated into the vernacular (at that time, Latin in the Western Church) the Kyrie remained in Greek, to provide some continuity with the ancient Liturgy. There is no reason why some Latin should not be preserved in the current form of the Mass, for the same reason. Pope Benedict XVI encouraged the use of Latin and, I can remember, during his Pontificate our own local Parish did have several of the set prayers in Latin and used incense, etc. As to receiving communion on the tongue, history records that, in the early Church, communicants received the Eucharist standing and in the hand. This has been a continuous practice in the Eastern Orthodox Churches (in fact, they stand for the whole of the Mass). The practice of communion on the tongue was not introduced to achieve a greater sense of reverence. In the Middle Ages, when everyone was, officially, Catholic and required to attend Sunday Mass, some of those attending were not, in fact, truly Catholic and would take the host away to use in some form of profane way. So, the practice was introduced of requing the communicating to actually swallow the host in the presence of the Priest. Even today, the Priest is required to ensure that each communicant does place the host in his mouth. So, it is still possible to prevent profanation of the sacred species with communion in the hand. As to the Tridentine form of the Mass - if I had been Pope Paul VI then my approach would have been to retain the existing order of the Mass unaltered, however, have much of it translated into the vernacular, with the Liturgy of the Word said with the Priest facing the people, in the vernacular but with the Liturgy of the Eucharist still said in the transitional way with the Priest facing the High Altar, in Latin. In fact, in an effort to resolve the difficulty in the Indian Church, the Pope has suggested that he would agree to this particular approach (although not using Latin for the Liturgy of the Eucharist, of course). Then again, for those who love the Latin language, for itself alone, it is worth noting that the restrictions which have been imposed on the Tridentine form of the Mass are not directed at the fact that it is said in Latin. The current form of the Mass does have an official Latin translation and any local Ordinary may permit the saying of the new form of the Mass in Latin, at his discretion. So, for example, in a University Town, with a number of Latin scholars who might appreciate having the Mass said in Latin, this is quite permissible and the Mass may be said in the local Parish Church, just as it is possible to say Mass in, for example, Polish, if there is a large Polish community. The use of Latin is not, in any way, the issue. The main difference between the Tridentine form of the Mass and the current form, is that, in the current form, the congregation say the responses, rather than simply listening while the Priest and the Altar Servers put on a sort of stage performance in front of them, at which they are simply the audience. This was the main aim of the Council - to involve the congregation fully in the Mass.

@Marcia-fw3wz 3 ай бұрын

We have heard all of that before, over and over, ad nauseum. And Catholics who know better do not agree with it. Sixty years of tampering with the Sacred Liturgy and the sacramental rites, and indoctrinating unwary Catholics with heterdox teachings, have accomplished nothing except what we are seeing now. "By their fruits you shall know them."

@zombiekiller13able 3 ай бұрын

Maybe we should stop shielding schismatics behind the TLM, and instead embrace the entirely of the Catholic Church.

@marcokite 3 ай бұрын

Interesting you regard Roman Catholics who adhere to the Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church as 'schismatics'.

@Marcia-fw3wz 3 ай бұрын

For many centuries before Vatican II, the Latin and Eastern Rites WERE the entire Catholic Church. Then when the Novus Ordo was implemented only sixty years ago, a different kind of liturgy and teachings were created. So how can the ancient Latin Rite be considered "schismatic"? It's actually the other way around.

@zombiekiller13able 3 ай бұрын

@@marcokite Nah. I know schismatics use the excuse of Tradition to justify themselves, but not all TLM or tradition lovers are schismatics. I personally kneel to receive on the tongue and follow traditional postures at Mass. I also adhere to friday penances, to use as examples. Claiming that Vatican 2 or the revised Latin Rite aren't valid is the problem, not Tradition.

@zombiekiller13able 3 ай бұрын

@@Marcia-fw3wz The Latin Rite was revised at Vatican 2. A new liturgy wasn't created. The teachings didn't change either. Thinking this means you haven't read the documents.

@Marcia-fw3wz 3 ай бұрын

@@zombiekiller13able 1. The Latin Rite was ruptured during Vatican II, not revised. 2. An entirely new liturgy most certainly was created, and many teachings were altered "to fit in with modern thinking," as they said. To deny this shows that you weren't born yet before all of this happened, and you haven't bothered to look up the facts. Instead, you keep parroting the same propaganda that fed you and others like you with all of this nonsense. I read Lumen Gentium cover to cover, and found several problems with the documents that the Church is dealing with today.