TO WRITERS, FROM READERS: VILLAINS 🔪

[@ericccky]

Speaking of hot villians, I wanna see more hot woman villains, and no, I don’t mean the seductive temptress type. I have had enough of the Darkling wannabes in my stories.

[@natalimoina]

Daki

[@Tessa_Ru]

Yes, more hot women who aren't just a vehicle for sl-t shaming. Nothing wrong with promiscuous female characters, but i think it's telling when it's almost always a villain or antagonist.

[@SDHegyes]

💯 agreed. But to add on, I almost never see a woman as a villain and when I do, she's got a tragic backstory that involves abuse (usually SA). I want more "why are you doing this?!?" women villains who are just... "Because I wanted to/for the good of the world/that's how I was raised/it pays better/etc" rather than because of tragic backstory.

[@ShioDon]

Yes, I need more Lady Dimitrescu in my life

[@kcbauz]

I love the idea that different stories need different villains. There is a time and place for everything but it has to be aligned with the purpose, plot, and overall message of the book. You highlighted this so well!

[@nitzeart]

I think villains being hot, when it's not just for the sake of it and being trendy, it comes back to the central idea of how evil or associated traits like envy or self-centerness can be alluring, seductive. It's more that the villain represents that pull to the dark side, and the main character has to fight to be good because good is often not easy. At least imo that's the basic central idea of why we like a hot villain 😅 It's also talks about how appearances can be deceiving and biases, which is a very universal theme.

[@lisapoe888]

As someone that only love bad guys. in movies/ books it is that he don’t care what others think about him at all as long as he reach his goal. It’s badass/brave therefore attractive😅

[@ezzie_is]

Castlevania has so many amazing villains with complex backstories and motivations. And then there’s that one villain - that one truly evil POS that you didn’t even realise was such a monster until the end.

[@morganjones2744]

I always like this topic! It can be tough to figure out how to portray a villain, how to figure out their "why". It's hard for me as a writer to portray a villain without knowing their 'why'. Humans are capable of so many things. There is a range of brutality that humans can commit for a variety of reasons. Exploring these through villains makes them very compelling villains that we love to hate. Even people who are both 'bad' will disagree/can be enemies. Antagonists who aren't the big bad can push characters and really shine on themes important in the story. The complexities of people is always such an interesting thing to put together and read/watch. My favorite villain is the ones who really believe they are doing the right thing, or characters who know they are not doing the right thing but feel stuck where they are/can't find another loophole to do the right thing so they feel they can only do the wrong thing-- or they are doing the things out of desperation to get what they want, regardless of who or what is in their way or what horrible things they have to do.

[@TheJellicle1]

I think the takeaway here is that we readers really love our villains and the best thing writers can do is put at lot of thought into character creation and be very intentional with their choices for any given story. Make them lovable or hatable but above all make them memorable. As you were talking I had so many examples of my favorite villains popping into my head and the very different reasons I loved each of them because in each case the writer did a great job of crafting the character and their arc.

[@MiguelFlores-xt8tt]

Absolutely agree, the one unforgivable sin not just for villains but for any major character in a story is to be forgettable

[@hope2dust]

Something that wasn't touched on, but eldritch villains really speak to me. Especially in cosmic horror and dark fantasy. Whether it be inconceivable mad gods, or a 3 yr old with unlimited power. In the short story 'It's a Good Life', a toddler named Anthony has enslaved his small town by annihilating the universe outside where he lives. He is literally omnipotent, so he can alter reality on a whim, hear the thoughts of everyone, and "make bad people go away." Everyone in the town must think positive thoughts and never try to control or punish Anthony. Hence the title. It is very much NOT a good life, but you must think it is if you don't want to enrage Anthony. So when he hears someone think it's too hot outside, and decides to create a week-long blizzard that kills all the crops, it's a good thing. When he tortures a rat by forcing it to eat it's own body, it's a good thing. When he destroyed the mind of his mother for trying to make him obey, it's a good thing. Everything Anthony does is a good thing... That type of villain is absolutely terrifying and I would love if we could get more of them.

[@jocelyntrishell]

I think why Sauron works is bc he isn’t really a character.i know he gets fleshed out in other works, but in the main story, he is the representation of evil in the world and the way society works and what kind of authority has power in the world. Gollum is an excellent villain! He gets one on one interaction with several characters in a way that reveals his motives and choices. Also I love Anakin, and I think hotness plays a role lol, but I always loved his character and it’s painful to reconcile the fact that he commits attrocities. I have to think that the person he was died and that allows for grief as a viewer to accept who they become

[@Editorialzero]

I agree about Sauron, it’s more of a force rather than an actual guy. It’s almost creating a hero vs environment situation that allows you to focus on the relationship between characters and the drive for survival instead of focusing on the morality of the villain. I think it becomes problematic when you have an entire group or race of people who are just straight up evil, like the orcs or like Hybern’s army in ACOTAR. Blindly casting an entire group of people as purely evil is wrong. Casting one being as purely evil is fine and can represent tons of different things.

[@Tessa_Ru]

@jocelyntrishell i love this comment, because you've so clearly demonstrated the 3 conflicts of a story with each of these. Man VS Nature (a creature, a force, or otherwise undefinable threat), Man VS Man (gollum is fully fleshed out and relatable), and Man VS Himself (Anakin's struggles with his pride and insecurities ultimately led to his own downfall). Disclaimer: Other genders/non-genders included, obviously. The majority of stories have layers of all three of these, but usually, you can pinpoint a main one.

[@OnyxSkiesXIX]

I love when a villain has motivations and are a complex character, but I am soooooo over redemption arcs for villains. I am sick of villains being retconned as “not evil” because fans think they’re hot.

[@stephentempera5693]

"A certain character did do something wrong" haha automatically knew who you meant

[@alyxbarter3155]

My favorite villain of all time is (spoiler) from Fablehaven. He is just such a cool, cunning character. The betrayals he engineers have very real consequences for the characters, his planning is immaculate, he's an EXCELLENT force for the characters to go up against because its fucking hard for them to defeat him! But he's not overpowered, he still has little defeats which makes his big wins even more interesting, and he's *reasonable*. You see his side of things, you understand and sympathize with him, but you still understand he needs to be defeated. Fablehaven is a masterclass in writing a villain (just. Ignore the prose). Plus, the foreshadowing revealing that he's the villain is so subtle and gorgeous. This middle grade fantasy novel created the standards for writing a villain. 👏

[@jamiewillands8883]

You covered my point first! I'm so honored and loved your points.💖

[@LadyMurasaki44]

I remember that one conversation with my co-worker after reading Harry Potter series. We were talking about Tom Riddle and I said that he really is fascinating for me as a villain and she said "but why? He`s just evil. Nothing good or grey is in him, only evil. He`s boring." So for her good villain is someone in grey area, with redeeming quialities. For me doesn`t matter that he is good, bad, grey. The most important thing is for me: I must understand his motivation, philosophy, psychology and logic behind his actions. I don`t have to agree with him, I don`t have to justify him. I still can think that he/she is horrible person and deserve the worst fate but at least I understand the character. The backstory- what is related to above. Not necessarily sad story about sad child. I need just see the process of making human into villain. The contex of situation, symbolism, double meanings; not only seeing him in the story but people who had impact on his development, relations with them. Sarcasm is welcomed.

[@SDHegyes]

You mentioned the point of villains having different morals, and one of my favorite sound bits right now is the "They were just children, and you KILLED them!" I love the idea of a villain saying that line to either their sidekick or (even better) the hero themself and then the "villain" becomes a "hero" of sorts as they become the antagonist of the one who killed the children. Love that twist and want to see more plots like that.

[@elizabethbriggs492]

One of my favourite recent examples is how darkly Kaz Brekker is the villain to his own villains.

[@drinkbooks]

Thank you. Yes. A villain is a villain, yes, but there are reasons they are a villain. If you're thinking the author is attempting to excuse them, is it because that's true or is it because you now have empathy for the villain and are uncomfortable feeling something for the bad guy? The author isn't responsible for the discomfort of the reader. The romantic villain... yeah... that trope is big. It is the attraction of the strong, charismatic, bad guy who will burn the world for you. The villain who has boundaries and you have... issues... hating them sometimes. John Marcone, The Dresden Files.

[@reflectiverambling1148]

Unique designs, yes , but that is a really hairy line to go with as usually that means some sort of disfigurement or disability and there's a historical villainizing of people who are not able bodied. :/ but absolutely on not checking dead....

[@stanloona000]

10:20 "If villain, why hot?"

[@kaida_daughter.of.dragons]

Great video! You touched on this several times, but I think that the type of villain I prefer depends a lot on the type of story I'm reading/ watching. I also don't think every story needs to try and be all things, although I do agree that epic fantasy tales tend to be more interesting with a mix of villians. I'm also curious for anyone who has seen Rings of Power season 2 - I heard that the show tried to make the orcs more sympathetic (rather than just collectively evil). Did that work for anyone? What are your opinions on stories that include whole species/ groups of people that are evil vs stories that subvert that expectation (like Stormlight or Codex Alera)?

[@astevenswrites]

Always love this video series and thanks for highlighting some of my Patreon comments!

[@SimplementInefable]

IMO when talking about villains, and grey morality in general, George R.R. Martin is what comes to my mind of a brilliant balance between explaining a character's motivations without making it an excuse.

[@michaelburke4048]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. as a writer, I love that you do this series.

[@linsloria3537]

I found that any villain that makes me rule for them, are the unforgettable for me, even with whatever evilness they do. Now, that you mentioned Full metal, I would suggest you watch HunterXHunter, great plot and magic system, also, the villain was incredible. Additionally, there is another villain that I loved, but it is in a videogame, it's in FF XVI, his name is Emet-Selch, what a great character.

[@jackiesliterarycorner]

I enjoy morally grey villains, because they're unpredictable and sometimes they are understandable. I also love the self-righteous villains who think they're right and that's scary, because they'll do whatever to prove they're right. They'll always justify their actions.

[@thebookaura]

"By the way, I just want to state that yes indeed a certain character did do something wrong." WOW that intrigued me to get into the cosmere.

[@heatherkline6766]

One of the best understandable villains is the recurring antagonist from JV: The Extraordinary Adventures of Jules Verne. Over the course of the series, his backstory is slowly revealed, bit by bit, until every detail falls into place. *stop reading here to avoid spoilers* This individual begins as a young man called Dakar; who is full of many seemingly wild ideas. He meets his best friend Artemis while at school and they are both smitten with the same girl, and she marries Dakar; perhaps attracted by his wild, eccentric charm. This result does little to fracture the friendship, and Artemis visits Dakar at his home frequently. Dakar initially has support to conduct experiments regarding his ideas, and pours much of his time into them. As the projects take more of his attention, less time is spent on his wife and children, who begin to feel estranged - along with Artemis. Funds are beginning to dry up when one of Dakar's experiments malfunctions and Artemis sustains a leg injury while saving his friend. Dakar embarks on a voyage with his wife Elizabeth and their two children, a boy and a girl, some time after. In a storm, the ship catches fire and sinks taking everyone else with it while Dakar is thrown clear by the explosion and survives, though with several scars. He later describes this wreck at the bottom of the sea as "where I died." Dakar decides to pursue his inventions at all cost (likely because they are all he thinks he has left) becoming an almost unstoppable force because of them. As he puts it "I have wished for so long to be no-one" so he takes the name Nemo (which means no-one) and becomes a shell of his former self, practically heartless when it comes to achieving his goals. His old friend Artemis has some sway over over him yet, even as Nemo, but ultimately not enough to routinely stop his villainous actions.

[@PetrolJunkie]

I prefer an antagonist over a villain. I want the character to be an obstacle because their goals put them at odds rather than because I hate X and I must destroy. Or an antagonist that knows what they are doing is wrong but feels like they don't have any other choices, or that they are making a sacrifice. Give them a reason to do the things they are doing. I find that sometimes having the mystery of never revealing the motivation can be a problem when an author doesn't understand the motivation or doesn't come up with one. Even I'm doing this because I'm wealthy and I can get away with it is better than no reason because I can get away with it is the motivation behind all kinds of stupid crap people do every day. There needs to be something, and it needs to make sense.

[@unavezms8167]

One of the best redemptions arcs in fiction is one character in City of Brass where they will never be able to even the score. They did some horific things like genocide type horific (some under mindcontrol, some under their own will). They know there's no forgiveness for him, they're determined to try anyways. 😭 The sundering by Jackeline Carey is lord of the rings but from Sauron POV and it's about how perspective, what it means to be good/evil. Also tragic romantic line.

[@HungryEyes-sl3mu]

I'm sick and tired of twist villains, particularly in romantasies. With romance and romantasy books there's the two leads (who we spend the majority of time with) and the supporting cast is so miniscule that you spot the twist villain immediately, like in The Phoenix Keeper and Together We Burn. Just give me a good old fashioned BBEG that I can root againt.

[@anonymousname5860]

Give me more villains that are in love and evil together. That stuff is interesting.

[@catthatlikesbread]

I have to ask since he's on the thumbnail.....anyone got good romance recs with a male lead like Silco? I've been asking for weeks now and still no answer 😭

[@kimberlylopez3230]

I love this topic so much. I will say I do agree that a villain should have a legitimate reason to be villainous, because if you were to wonder what their motivation is and it's just "Because I'm EVIL HAHAHAHAH" then I would be like, well that's stupid. The other thing I hate is when the hero is willing to kill all the foot solders but when confronted with the villain they all of a sudden want to take the moral road and leave it to the authorities or whatever (I recently read Starling House and was so upset when the “henchmen” of the baddy were being picked off one by one, but then when the baddy was about to get their due, the protagonist pushes them out of the way!!! Sorry for the semi spoiler) Also, I just love when the villain is not really the villain, but it turns out that the hero is the villain (i just finished reading Frankenstein and the whole time i kept yelling to the void "VICTOR IS A D*CK!!")

[@MsNikkyD]

I just started The Book of Doors by Gareth Brown, and one of the villains is so ridiculously moustache twirlingly evil (but not in a satirical or tongue-in-cheek way) that it is really detracting from the book as a whole.

[@GilbertRuth-v7f]

Great Video

[@VoidDWG]

Imo: I need my villains fleshed out like my main character. Otherwise it just feels unbalanced

[@VincentTornude]

Kanki - Kingdom(manga) Dr Dementus - Furiosa(movie) Doflamingo - One piece(manga) Hannibal Lecter - Hannibal(tv) These types are my favorite types. They're not bad because something bad happened to them(even if something did happen). It's who they are or who they chose to be and they aren't hiding it either. I like that honesty in villains.

[@prpunkskater1]

My Fav villain is Crasedes Magnus, from the Founders trilogy by Rober Jackson Bennett

[@madelynmahurin8357]

Modern villains don’t work for me a lot of the time because our culture has shifted to thinking of evil as a layered tier rather than a category of behavior opposite to good. And for readers like me, who don’t think that way, but believe all evil is on the same level, the “morally grey” trend is often limpid and tired in its execution. My interest lies less in how the villain was actually a good guy all along blah blah blah, and more in the tension and conflict that comes from actively resisting evil and trying to do good. I find that more engaging and inspiring because that’s pretty much my whole goal in life, lol. Villainy is interesting enough when it’s utilized well in a story, but not nearly as compelling as modern writers and audiences make it out to be. Just sayin.

[@johnnyritenbaugh1214]

Gyeongseong Creature has some really great villains are just villains--and they aren't uninteresting.

[@johnnyritenbaugh1214]

Jayce yes. I like him and his wishy washy morality as a character concept, but seeing him on screen in so frustrating. The one who really deserves justice is Viktor. lol

[@IFarore]

Okay, but Tinky Winky is shady af

[@RodgersReads]

Yes war crimes are bad, no he is not a villain lololol I'll die on this hill. 😜